98 Blazer starting problems

[Stormin Mormon]

Some days, my Blazer gives me trouble starting.
usually only first thing in the morning.

Mechanic says it sounds like it's draining back,
and I should cycle the key (my comment: like
glow plugs for a diesel).

Sometimes that helps, and some times it takes
eight or ten or more tries to start.

What might be wrong?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[SteveF]

On 1/9/2014 11:55 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Some days, my Blazer gives me trouble starting.
> usually only first thing in the morning.
>
> Mechanic says it sounds like it's draining back,
> and I should cycle the key (my comment: like
> glow plugs for a diesel).
>
> Sometimes that helps, and some times it takes
> eight or ten or more tries to start.
>
> What might be wrong?
>

Fuel pump issue?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:55:56 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Some days, my Blazer gives me trouble starting.
>usually only first thing in the morning.
>
>Mechanic says it sounds like it's draining back,
>and I should cycle the key (my comment: like
>glow plugs for a diesel).
>
>Sometimes that helps, and some times it takes
>eight or ten or more tries to start.
>
>What might be wrong?

FIRST of all, determine if it IS a fuel pressure drainback problem.
Dead easy. take the cap off the schrader valve on the fuel rail and
push in on the valve pin. If it sprays fuel it is NOT a drainback
problem. If it doesn't, cycle once and recheck. If you have pressure
now, start looking somewhere else for your problem.

Do you have spark on first crank?? - pull wire off of one plug and
check. Spark bright blue and snapping? Look elsewhere. If not - check
ignition. When were the plugs/wires last changed? Is this a
distributor engine or a coil pack engine??

If you squirt half an ounch of gas down the intake, hold the throttle
half open, and crank, does it start??? If so it is a fuel problem.
Could be a bad engine temp or intake air temp sensor telling the
computer the engine is warm when it is not.

[Stormin Mormon]

My mechanic doesn't think it's fuel pump. When it
starts, it runs with pretty much full power. He
thinks when they go bad, the engine doesn't rev
properly.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/9/2014 3:44 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> FIRST of all, determine if it IS a fuel pressure drainback problem.
> Dead easy. take the cap off the schrader valve on the fuel rail and
> push in on the valve pin. If it sprays fuel it is NOT a drainback
> problem. If it doesn't, cycle once and recheck. If you have pressure
> now, start looking somewhere else for your problem.

SM: I may try that.

>
> Do you have spark on first crank?? - pull wire off of one plug and
> check. Spark bright blue and snapping? Look elsewhere. If not - check
> ignition.

SM: That's a team sport. My arms are too short.

When were the plugs/wires last changed?

SM: Don't know. I got the truck used.

Is this a
> distributor engine or a coil pack engine??

SM: Coil on passenger side, next to module. Right next to (what used to
be called) carburetor. Distributor cap has four wires one side, three on
the other side.

>
> If you squirt half an ounch of gas down the intake, hold the throttle
> half open, and crank, does it start???

SM: When it refused to start the other day, ether didn't do it.

If so it is a fuel problem.
> Could be a bad engine temp or intake air temp sensor telling the
> computer the engine is warm when it is not.
>

SM: You know, I'd not thought of that. Thank you.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

If the check valve in the fuelpump goes bad, it will drain the lines
making starting difficult, and will still run perfectly after it
starts - with full power. Another thing that can cause pressure
drain-back is a bad FPR (fuel pressure regulator) which lets the
pressure bleed off through the return line. This will USUALLY show up
as a slightly lower than normal running fuel pressure, but not always
- and usually not enough to be readilly noticeable. Clamping off the
return line immediately after shutting off the engine can eliminate
this as a cause. Also check the vac hose connected to the regulator -
if there is gas in it with the engine just shut off, you have a bad
FPR. If it looses pressure without clamping the line, and does not
with the line clamped, the FPR is leaking.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

If ether doesn't start it, it is NOT a fuel problem and not a temp
sensor problem, most likely. How long have you owned it??? I'm betting
on bad plugs/wires Won't start cold and damp - run's reasonably well
after starting. Likely costing you extra fuel as well. With the
engine running, run your bare hands over the plug wires. If you feel
ANY shock, the wires need replacing - yesterday. Also make sure the
coil tower and the cap are CLEAN. Would not hurt to replace cap and
rotor while you are at it. The whole job will cost you about the
equivalent of a tow - - - - -

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/9/2014 8:01 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> If the check valve in the fuelpump goes bad, it will drain the lines
> making starting difficult, and will still run perfectly after it
> starts - with full power. Another thing that can cause pressure
> drain-back is a bad FPR (fuel pressure regulator) which lets the
> pressure bleed off through the return line. This will USUALLY show up
> as a slightly lower than normal running fuel pressure, but not always
> - and usually not enough to be readilly noticeable. Clamping off the
> return line immediately after shutting off the engine can eliminate
> this as a cause. Also check the vac hose connected to the regulator -
> if there is gas in it with the engine just shut off, you have a bad
> FPR. If it looses pressure without clamping the line, and does not
> with the line clamped, the FPR is leaking.

Yesterday, I pulled a couple relays out of the
fuse box, and put some dielectric grease on
the prongs. Today, the truck started better,
but not right up immediately. I'm going to give
it a couple days and see if things are better.

I've had it for couple years, and not had a
tune up. The power is low, and it's a bit
sluggish. I'd dare to guess it needs cap,
rotor, wires, plugs. That's going to wait a
while till warmer weather, and more money.

[SteveF]

On 1/9/2014 3:20 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

>
> My mechanic doesn't think it's fuel pump. When it
> starts, it runs with pretty much full power. He
> thinks when they go bad, the engine doesn't rev
> properly.
>

Borrow his pressure gauge and check for yourself.:-)

[Stormin Mormon]

Buy one at Harbor Freight with 25% coupon?

Yesterday, I pulled the relays out of the fuse
box, greased the prongs with dielectric grease,
and replaced. Truck starts some better, this
morning.

[SteveF]

On 1/10/2014 8:05 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 1/10/2014 8:01 PM, SteveF wrote:
>> On 1/9/2014 3:20 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My mechanic doesn't think it's fuel pump. When it
>>> starts, it runs with pretty much full power. He
>>> thinks when they go bad, the engine doesn't rev
>>> properly.
>>>
>>
>> Borrow his pressure gauge and check for yourself.:-)
>>
>>
> Buy one at Harbor Freight with 25% coupon?

Possibly. I do not know if they may be used for anything
else. So, spend at your own risk. If you have access to
one, borrow it.

>
> Yesterday, I pulled the relays out of the fuse
> box, greased the prongs with dielectric grease,
> and replaced. Truck starts some better, this
> morning.

You might want to wait for SteveW to chime in. I know others
have mentioned testing the fuel rail via schrader valve. One
thing is to find the fuse for the fuel pump and pull it while
the engine is running. Let the engine run till it dies. Turn
off the key, replace fuse, then depress the schrader valve.
After you are assured that the pressure has been released, cycle
the ignition on and off three times, leaving ignition on (not
in starting position) for around 10 seconds each time. Depress
the schrader valve again. There should be a pretty good hiss/
spray of atomised fuel coming out. Be careful, little flame
thrower there. :-)

Wait until morning then cycle the ignition three times, again, then
try starting the engine. Sometimes the engine may run fine while
the pump is not putting out enough pressure, as Clare stated (I
believe), but is a pain to start since the engine needs more
fuel. That's why I recommend trying to find a pressure guage.
Hell, drive to an Autozone and use one of theirs in the parking
lot. I think 45PSI is the min, but I really could not say.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Since he obviously doesn't know how to use it.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:05:22 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 1/10/2014 8:01 PM, SteveF wrote:
>> On 1/9/2014 3:20 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My mechanic doesn't think it's fuel pump. When it
>>> starts, it runs with pretty much full power. He
>>> thinks when they go bad, the engine doesn't rev
>>> properly.
>>>
>>
>> Borrow his pressure gauge and check for yourself.:-)
>>
>>
>Buy one at Harbor Freight with 25% coupon?
>
>Yesterday, I pulled the relays out of the fuse
>box, greased the prongs with dielectric grease,
>and replaced. Truck starts some better, this
>morning.

How much warmer is it this morning?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Default


Fuel pressure and leakdown must be checked with the engine off. On
1998 and newer, in the underhood fuse panel there is a vacant terminal
next to the fuel pump relay. This is the "fuel pump prime terminal"
and it goes directly to the fuel pump. Connect a jumper wire from
battery positive to the terminal. After the fuel pressure stabilizes,
it must be 60psi to 66psi. Then remove the jumper wire and the fuel
pressure must remain above 55psi for at least 10 minutes. If it fails
either or both parts of the test, there is a problem with fuel
delivery and further testing is required to pinpoint the problem. If
it drops too fast, clamp off the return line when you shut off the
pump and see if it drops more slowly. If so, you have a bad FPR. If
not, you have a bad check valve in the pump (or a leaky fuel pressure
line, or a leaking injector, or a leak somewhere else in the high
pressure side of the system (like a leaky diaphragm in the FPR - which
will show up as gasoline in the manifold vacuum sense hose on the
FPR).

Stormy needs to learn how to diagnose. I've done it for a living for
over 45 years and I'm pretty good at it.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/10/2014 11:05 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>> Borrow his pressure gauge and check for yourself.:-)
>>
> Since he obviously doesn't know how to use it.
>

It's not good manners to flame someone who
isn't here, you've not met, and you don't really
know his abilities.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/10/2014 11:05 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:05:22 -0500, Stormin Mormon
>>

>> Yesterday, I pulled the relays out of the fuse
>> box, greased the prongs with dielectric grease,
>> and replaced. Truck starts some better, this
>> morning.
> How much warmer is it this morning?
>

About twenty degrees, F.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 12:58:35 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 1/10/2014 11:05 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>
>>> Borrow his pressure gauge and check for yourself.:-)
>>>
>> Since he obviously doesn't know how to use it.
>>
>
>It's not good manners to flame someone who
>isn't here, you've not met, and you don't really
>know his abilities.

Stormy - if he knew how to use it he would be able to check it and
tell you for certain if it is a fuel pressure problem. -or have you
not been able to start the vehicle and take it in so he is just
guessing?
Regardless - you DO need to test it - follow the troubleshooting info
I have given and get back to me.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 12:59:07 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 1/10/2014 11:05 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:05:22 -0500, Stormin Mormon
>>>
>>> Yesterday, I pulled the relays out of the fuse
>>> box, greased the prongs with dielectric grease,
>>> and replaced. Truck starts some better, this
>>> morning.
>> How much warmer is it this morning?
>>
>About twenty degrees, F.

Exactly - which may be why it starts better now. If you have a
crystal of ice stuck in the check valve or the FPR it won't start very
well. - among a lot of other variables. Start the process of
elimination. Eliminate either what is working or what is not from your
list, one at a time until the problem is nailed down.

2 years since the plugs have been changed? Start there - they will
need changing anyway if you keep the vehicle - but check the cables
for leakage first.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/11/2014 3:18 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Regardless - you DO need to test it - follow the troubleshooting info
> I have given and get back to me.
>

==========================

> 2 years since the plugs have been changed? Start there - they will
> need changing anyway if you keep the vehicle - but check the cables
> for leakage first.
>

You don't have the authority to give me
orders.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:26:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 1/11/2014 3:18 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> Regardless - you DO need to test it - follow the troubleshooting info
>> I have given and get back to me.
>>
>==========================
> > 2 years since the plugs have been changed? Start there - they will
> > need changing anyway if you keep the vehicle - but check the cables
> > for leakage first.
> >
>
>You don't have the authority to give me
>orders.

Not orders, stormy - just suggestions. You want to fix the Blazer so
it starts reliably. Your perogotive to learn from my experience or
not. I can guarantee I could pin down where the problem is on that
vehicle within 20 minutes of arriving on your doorstep, assuming the
vehicle was available.

[SteveF]

On 1/11/2014 9:15 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>> You don't have the authority to give me
>> orders.
> Not orders, stormy - just suggestions. You want to fix the Blazer so
> it starts reliably. Your perogotive to learn from my experience or
> not. I can guarantee I could pin down where the problem is on that
> vehicle within 20 minutes of arriving on your doorstep, assuming the
> vehicle was available.
>

Clare, do not believe him. He likes being ordered around. You should
see his dominatrix! :-)

[Steve W.]

>> On 1/9/2014 3:20 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>
>>> My mechanic doesn't think it's fuel pump. When it
>>> starts, it runs with pretty much full power. He
>>> thinks when they go bad, the engine doesn't rev
>>> properly.

--- Fuel System Problems ----

Fuel pump - Test, connect up gauge and watch it when you turn on the
key, Gauge HAS to hit 55psi minimum, higher (up to 65 psi is better).
Now start the engine, fuel pressure should stay the same, SNAP the
throttle, Pressure should show a momentary change due the the change in
vacuum.

It may not be the PUMP itself. BUT the check valve that stops the fuel
from draining back is part of the pump, it's on the outlet side of the
pump and is designed to
A - hold pressure in the system so the vehicle starts when hot (the
pressure in the system helps prevent vapor lock in the injection system)
B - works with the regulator in the engine to control fuel pressure.

Common symptoms of failure - long crank times, poor starting.

It could be the pressure regulator, that is inside the intake on the
injector unit itself. It maintains fuel pressure (55psi MIN. required
for the system to operate properly) in the system and uses vacuum inside
the intake to control the pressure and volume to the CPI unit based on
engine load.

Common symptoms of failure - long crank times, poor starting, lower fuel
mileage, smell of gas from the intake.

It could be a problem with the "fuel nut assembly" (AKA the fuel lines
just inside the intake on the left side of the engine) they are known
for cracking from heat/vibration.

Common symptoms of failure - long crank times, poor starting, lower fuel
mileage, smell of gas from the intake.

All of the above are KNOWN issues with the fuel system on the 4.3
All can be tested with 2 pairs of vice grips and a fuel pressure gauge.

Connect gauge, turn key on, watch gauge. Fuel pressure should jump up
almost instantly to 55-65 psi and stay there. (This is because the
initial key on triggers the ECM to turn the fuel pump on for 3 - 4
seconds. This is to prime the rail because minor leakage in the system
components is normal and the pressure may only be 30-40 psi. after
setting overnight.)

If the gauge jumps up fast and stays there with LESS than a 10psi drop
over 5 minutes the above parts are OK and the problem is elsewhere.


More likely is the pressure will drop very fast, that signals a leak in
the system.

So you take the vice grips and go under the vehicle. (The next steps
depend on which fuel lines you have, The earlier trucks had metal tanks
and rubber flex lines, later trucks have plastic flex lines and the last
ones have plastic tanks and plastic flex lines)

There will be three lines, One is pressurized fuel to the engine, one is
fuel return to the tank and the last is a vacuum line (works with the
EVAP system).

Look them over for ANY leakage. (especially right at the kick-up in the
frame right in front of the rear wheel on the drivers side. The fuel
lines and rear brake line are there and it collects a LOT of crap and
rots the lines.)

You need the pressurized line first.
Have a helper turn the key on, as soon as the pressure builds clamp off
the pressure line. Watch the gauge. IF the gauge stays where it was when
you clamped the line,(with no more than a 10psi drop in 5 minutes) the
leak is the valve in the pump. (Usually requires pump module replacement
as nobody makes a replacement valve, the original is molded in the top
of the module. Sometimes it is rust/dirt blocking it open and you can
clean it.)

Still leaking down - Release clamp, turn key on again, when pressure
builds clamp off both the pressure and return lines. Watch the gauge.

Pressure holds with NO drop - Pressure regulator is failing internally
and leaking fuel back to the tank. Replace pressure regulator. (inside
the intake manifold)

Pressure still drops (even a small amount of drop is bad)- Either the
pressure regulator, spider unit or the lines are leaking inside the
intake. All require the intake to be opened to replace the parts. IF you
are going in there plan to replace the FPR and the lines at a minimum.
They may be OK now but they WILL fail. The new replacements are better
parts.


http://www.lindertech.com/reconinj.htm - Has very good prices and top
notch parts.

I usually opt for the upgrade to the "mini-injector" unit from the stock
CPI unit, it's a direct bolt in (in most cases, call them and they will
make sure) and greatly improves the system.

The above is based on multiple repairs to these systems by myself, and a
LOT of discussions with other techs and mechanics about this system and
improvements that are possible. (It applies to ALL of the CPI equipped
GM engines both V6 and V8)

--
Steve W.

[Steve W.]

Yep, always amazed at people who think 45-50 psi is good on these.

--
Steve W.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/12/2014 10:19 AM, SteveF wrote:
>
> Clare, do not believe him. He likes being ordered around. You should
> see his dominatrix! :-)

After an hour of begging, I got permission
to tell you that's not true.

[Stormin Mormon]

Thank you. I'll save this post, in case it's
needed. For now, the truck is doing reasonably
well.

[Stormin Mormon]

Jan 15, 2014

Chevrolet Tradesman, with 350 engine (I think it's a 350). Been giving
me starting trouble, for last year or so. More so when it's wet.

Latest "hurrah" was when I changed the distributor cap and rotor, and
started nicely after that. Whew, got that one finally.

Today, needed the van for a service call. It almost started, but not
quite. Tried the starter several times.

Took the other car to the call, and managed to git r dun.

Came back and tried a bunch of things. What seemed to help was to spray
the fuel injector sprayers with some trichlor degreaser. I couldn't find
my toluene carb cleaner spray.

Starts a lot better, now. Hope that does it. Thanks to all here, who
offered ideas.

[NotMe]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OoBzu.191916$m_6.1...@fx25.iad...

> Some days, my Blazer gives me trouble starting.
> usually only first thing in the morning.
>
> Mechanic says it sounds like it's draining back,
> and I should cycle the key (my comment: like
> glow plugs for a diesel).
>
> Sometimes that helps, and some times it takes
> eight or ten or more tries to start.
>
> What might be wrong?
>

Could be the fuel pump is intermittent. Our 95 gave the granddaughter a bit
of trouble. She wisely drove straight home where fuel pump dies in the drive
way. We were able to get it going again but not for long. New pump all ok.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/15/2014 3:58 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Jan 15, 2014
>
> Chevrolet Tradesman, with 350 engine (I think it's a 350). Been giving
> me starting trouble, for last year or so. More so when it's wet.
>
> Latest "hurrah" was when I changed the distributor cap and rotor, and
> started nicely after that. Whew, got that one finally.
>

May 19, 2015
Just for grins and giggles, decided to look through
my reciepts and see when I replaced the spark plug
wires. Could not find any such reciept. Went to the
store and bought a set of wires, plans to install them
tomorrow when it's daylight and a bit warmer. Could
have sworn I changed the spark wires last night.

Plans tomorrow to run the engine and water down the
spark wires, see if that kills the motor. This hit
and miss bit of throwing parts at it nonsense is no
good.


-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 5/19/2015 7:13 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Plans tomorrow to run the engine and water down the
> spark wires, see if that kills the motor. This hit
> and miss bit of throwing parts at it nonsense is no
> good.
>

Need the van for a service call. Skip the wet
wires step. Change the wires. The two front
on driver side were nearly impossible to reach,
so I left em. Six out of eight is better than
zero out of eight. See when it rains, next.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Your luck it will be the 2 you didn't change crossfiring causing your
hard start.. Next sunny day when you have a bit of spare time, change
them. I'd capitalize that but I don't want to hurt your sensitive
little ears. If you don't have any spare time, make some.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 5/20/2015 3:38 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Wed, 20 May 2015 12:11:45 -0400, Stormin Mormon

>> Need the van for a service call. Skip the wet
>> wires step. Change the wires. The two front
>> on driver side were nearly impossible to reach,
>> so I left em. Six out of eight is better than
>> zero out of eight. See when it rains, next.
>>

> Your luck it will be the 2 you didn't change crossfiring causing your
> hard start.. Next sunny day when you have a bit of spare time, change
> them. I'd capitalize that but I don't want to hurt your sensitive
> little ears. If you don't have any spare time, make some.
>

Heard you about luck. The reason I didn't change
cylinders 1 and 3, is that there is nearly no
room to work. Under the brake cylinder, steering
wheel, and a bracket of some kind. There is a
chance I could have reached in, but the other six
were miserable. It's not a question of time. It's
a question of being able to reach them, and not
wanting to cut my hands.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It's your truck. Do as you like, but don't bother asking why it
doesn't start or misfires next time. Take the time to replace them
yourself or pay someone who can. I've replaced many of them. Not
simple, but definitely not rocket science. Do it with the engine cold,
of course.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 5/21/2015 10:01 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> It's your truck. Do as you like, but don't bother asking why it
> doesn't start or misfires next time. Take the time to replace them
> yourself or pay someone who can. I've replaced many of them. Not
> simple, but definitely not rocket science. Do it with the engine cold,
> of course.
>

If I had a choice of capital words, or bossy
and commanding, I'd take capital letters.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 5/22/2015 7:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 5/21/2015 10:01 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> It's your truck. Do as you like, but don't bother asking why it
>> doesn't start or misfires next time. Take the time to replace them
>> yourself or pay someone who can. I've replaced many of them. Not
>> simple, but definitely not rocket science. Do it with the engine cold,
>> of course.
>>
>
> If I had a choice of capital words, or bossy
> and commanding, I'd take capital letters.
>

Monday June 01, 2015

Well, you might just get the last laugh.

Rained on Saturday and Sunday. Today I
tried to start the van, it behaved totally
the same as before the six wire service.

I dragged out a battery booster 50 amp, which
did start the vehicle after about five tries.
Each try, wait 60 seconds (by wrist watch) to
let it charge. Makes me wonder if I have a weak
battery, or slow starter?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I'd put money on a slow owner, myself!!

[Stormin Mormon]

On 6/1/2015 12:48 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:47:09 -0400, Stormin Mormon

>> I dragged out a battery booster 50 amp, which
>> did start the vehicle after about five tries.
>> Each try, wait 60 seconds (by wrist watch) to
>> let it charge. Makes me wonder if I have a weak
>> battery, or slow starter?
>>

> I'd put money on a slow owner, myself!!
>

That really adds intelligence to the
conversation.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

If the bad wires are crossfiring it makes the engine turn over a LOT
harder than if the wires are good and firing where they are supposed
to. Did you do a voltage test when cranking? How about a starter
current draw test?. Not hard to tell if you have a battery problem, or
a starter problem.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 6/1/2015 8:58 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> If the bad wires are crossfiring it makes the engine turn over a LOT
> harder than if the wires are good and firing where they are supposed
> to. Did you do a voltage test when cranking? How about a starter
> current draw test?. Not hard to tell if you have a battery problem, or
> a starter problem.
>

Sunday June 28, 2015

I could check voltage, but don't have the DC ammeter.

Saturday I drove the Blazer, to a service call,
and it rained all day. Sunday the Blazer won't
start, but the van will. Took the van to church,
home, dinner, and an emergency service call.

Supposed to be warmer and drier tomorrow, hope
the Blazer dries out enough to start.

[Stormin Mormon]

Rained, Saturday. Blazer runs fine.
Sunday, cool and humid. Blazer won't start.
Monday, taking the time to see if I can fix the
Blazer.

Distributer cap and rotor. No joy.
Remove all four multi pin plugs off
computer, spray with WD-40.
Ignition module (next to coil). No joy.
Replace ignition coil. No joy.
Replace crank case position sensor. No joy.

No spark at center coil wire (using my old
tester from when I did lawn mower repair).

What else might be wrong? Distributer pickup
coil? Some thing else?

--

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:35:52 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Rained, Saturday. Blazer runs fine.
>Sunday, cool and humid. Blazer won't start.
>Monday, taking the time to see if I can fix the
>Blazer.
>
>Distributer cap and rotor. No joy.
>Remove all four multi pin plugs off
>computer, spray with WD-40.
>Ignition module (next to coil). No joy.
>Replace ignition coil. No joy.
>Replace crank case position sensor. No joy.
>
>No spark at center coil wire (using my old
>tester from when I did lawn mower repair).
>
>What else might be wrong? Distributer pickup
>coil? Some thing else?

First things first - is there power to the positive side of the
coil??? If not, find out why.

If you have power to the coil, the only other possibilities are module
or pickup coil (or both, A bad pickup coil can cause the module to
fail prematurely.), the crankshaft sensor, or wiring.
Failure of the crankshaft position sensor is a very common problem
on the Blazer 4.3L engine and so I would troubleshoot that first. It
has a 3-wire connector, a green 12 volt power wire, a gray ground wire
(center wire), and a beige signal wire (the wire closest to the
mounting bracket bolt) which sends a 5 volt pulse signal to the PCM to
activate ignition spark. You must leave it connected to test it for a
pulse signal. Use a multimeter set to DC volts and pierce the beige
signal wire (the wire closest to the mounting bracket bolt) with the
multimeter red lead and touch the multimeter black lead to a good
ground and then either have someone crank the engine or turn the
engine by hand with the ignition switch in the ON position. If the
crankshaft sensor is working the beige signal wire should produce an
on/off 5 volt pulse> If there is no 5 volt pulse you should unplug the
crankshaft position sensor connector and with the ignition switch
turned to the ON position and the multimeter set to DC volts, probe
the green wire connection on the plug with the multimeter red lead and
touch the multimeter black lead to a good ground to see if the
crankshaft position sensor is getting 12 volt power and then switch
the multimeter to ohms and do the same at the gray wire connection on
the plug to see if the crankshaft sensor is getting a good ground. If
it is getting 12 volt power from the green wire and it is getting a
good ground from the gray wire but it is not producing an on/off 5
volt pulse then it is defective. If the crankshaft sensor fails
intermittently the check engine light will come on and the engine will
continue to run but if it fails completely the engine will quit
running and will not restart and sudden complete failure of the
crankshaft position sensor is common on that Blazer 4.3L engine.

My suspicion is you don't have 12 volts at either the coil or the
crank sensor.

If you have 12 volts at the coil AND get a pulse from the crank
sensor, the module or module wiring is suspect.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 6/29/2015 9:31 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> First things first - is there power to the positive side of the
> coil??? If not, find out why.
>

CY: Just checked. With key on, both ignition module and ignition coil
have 12 volt power.

> If you have power to the coil, the only other possibilities are module
> or pickup coil

CY: I did have failure a week or so ago, and a new ignition module did
the job. On this engine, the module is on the metal frame that holds the
ignition coil. Yesterday, I tried two other modules. I also tried
another ignition coil.

(or both, A bad pickup coil can cause the module to
> fail prematurely.), the crankshaft sensor, or wiring.

CY: Last thing yesterday was to replace the crankcase sensor, and that
didn't help. Wonder if I have a bad pickup coil, which has killed a
module or two?

CY: The sensor plug is coated in grease, and I don't have a helper.
Sorry, unable to perform this test.

>
> My suspicion is you don't have 12 volts at either the coil or the
> crank sensor.

CY: Not sure about the 12 volts at crank sensor.

>
> If you have 12 volts at the coil AND get a pulse from the crank
> sensor, the module or module wiring is suspect.
>

CY: Could be....

[Stormin Mormon]

On 6/29/2015 8:35 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Rained, Saturday. Blazer runs fine.
> Sunday, cool and humid. Blazer won't start.
> Monday, taking the time to see if I can fix the
> Blazer.
>
> Distributer cap and rotor. No joy.
> Remove all four multi pin plugs off
> computer, spray with WD-40.
> Ignition module (next to coil). No joy.
> Replace ignition coil. No joy.
> Replace crank case position sensor. No joy.
>
> No spark at center coil wire (using my old
> tester from when I did lawn mower repair).
>
> What else might be wrong? Distributer pickup
> coil? Some thing else?
>

Had the truck towed to a garage. The fellow found
the ignition coil had gone bad, and was eating
modules. He put on a coil and module from another
engine, and it runs again.

I did try a different coil, but by that time I'd fried
all the ignition modules I had on hand. Such is
the breaks.

--

[Stormin Mormon]

On 6/28/2015 7:43 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 6/1/2015 8:58 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> If the bad wires are crossfiring it makes the engine turn over a LOT
>> harder than if the wires are good and firing where they are supposed
>> to. Did you do a voltage test when cranking? How about a starter
>> current draw test?. Not hard to tell if you have a battery problem, or
>> a starter problem.
>>
>
> Sunday June 28, 2015
>
> I could check voltage, but don't have the DC ammeter.
>

Thursday Oct 08, 2015

About seven weeks ago, I bought spark plugs and planned
to put them in with the help of my neighbor, Steve, who
is a retired mechanic.

Five weeks ago, today, I was going down the road and
the van engine suddenly quit. I rolled off to a safe
place, and tried the starter. It would not restart.
I tried a new ignition module. My enighbor Steve and
I tried a distributor pickup coil. No joy.

A friend and I pulled the van to a repair agarage,
who had it for about two weks. No joy.

Paid for a flatbed tow to yet anothr garage, who had
it about a week and found the ignition coil had gone
bad. By this time I was shopping for replacement
vehicle.

Wednesday I'm on the way home from looking at a van for
sale.

Garage two called, van is fixed and ready to go. Me: "It
starts, stops, and runs?" Yep. I got there with a ride,
and the van didn't start. The mechanic got it going,
said it was flooded, and I ought to put new spark
plugs in.

Got the van home. About an hour later, I had a service
call come in. Yippee, take the van. But the van would
not start. Take the Blazer. Call Steve, and arrange
to have him change the spark plugs tomorrow AM.

So, it's morning. I pull the motor cover. The first
two sparks, 6 and 8, didn't look "too bad", and so I
changed em out. The next couple were hard to reach,
but I got em. Those were 5 and 7. By this time I am
getting the hang of it, so I went after 2 and 4. As
GM mechanics know, 1 and 3 are under the master brake
cylinder. Finally I tried them from laying on the
ground, working blind by feel. That worked out OK
after a long while.

And the van starts like it WANTS to run. I took it
to a service call, and it did good. Surges a bit,
might have a bad vacuum hose. Get that some day,
or other.

No need to transfer registration. No week of moving
tools from one vehicle to another. Might get better
mileage. And need to replace all the vacuum hoses,
some day soon.

[Stormin Mormon]

Thursday October 08, 2015

Friday a week ago, the fuel pump went intermittent.

Monday got a used fuel pump. Steve and I spent the
day installing it, only to find it's got the different
plug and won't work.

Tuesday, track down a plug. Get that going, finally.

Wednesday take the Blazer on a service call. Coming
out of store, heading home. Took four tries to get
the engine to start.

Good thing I've found another one, and have plans to
trade this old machine in, one days next week.

Wish me luck! Hope the Blazer lasts that long.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/8/2015 7:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Thursday October 08, 2015
>
> Friday a week ago, the fuel pump went intermittent.
>
> Monday got a used fuel pump. Steve and I spent the
> day installing it, only to find it's got the different
> plug and won't work.
>
> Tuesday, track down a plug. Get that going, finally.
>
> Wednesday take the Blazer on a service call. Coming
> out of store, heading home. Took four tries to get
> the engine to start.
>
> Good thing I've found another one, and have plans to
> trade this old machine in, one days next week.
>
> Wish me luck! Hope the Blazer lasts that long.
>

Thanks for the wishes of luck. I did limp the
old rusty machine to a friend's house in South
Carolina. Went the next day to look at another
truck. Ended up buying one of the same year,
model, package, color, etc. The replacement needs
a lot of work, and will be posting a bit about
that, over the next few weeks.

Wipers, radio, stinks like cigarettes, door panels
aren't clipped on, and totally needs an oil change.
All things that can be fixed.


--

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Hope you didn't pay too much ( like more than scrap value) for it.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/8/2015 7:04 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> And the van starts like it WANTS to run. I took it
> to a service call, and it did good. Surges a bit,
> might have a bad vacuum hose. Get that some day,
> or other.

> .
> Christopher A. Young
> learn more about Jesus
> . www.lds.org
> .

Some rain last night. For the last several
years, the van won't start when it's wet.

Today, it started. I call that progress.

--

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/26/2015 1:03 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:05:44 -0400, Stormin Mormon

>> Thanks for the wishes of luck. I did limp the
>> old rusty machine to a friend's house in South
>> Carolina. Went the next day to look at another
>> truck. Ended up buying one of the same year,
>> model, package, color, etc. The replacement needs
>> a lot of work, and will be posting a bit about
>> that, over the next few weeks.
>>
>> Wipers, radio, stinks like cigarettes, door panels
>> aren't clipped on, and totally needs an oil change.
>> All things that can be fixed.
>
> Hope you didn't pay too much ( like more than scrap value) for it.
>

When you consider the options, I did very well.

And it has less rust than most vehicles in my area.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

And that is saying much???

[Stormin Mormon]

For whatever reason, the OBDII refuses to read.
Not only for me, abut also for the guy from Auto
zone. I took it in for a free code scan.

The autozone guy said the computer runs off the
power from the lighter socket. And occurs to me
to check the fuses.

I bought a bulb tester at Harbor Freight, percent
off, plus coupon and free iteme with purchase. I'm
amazed they stay inbusiness.

Next day, I checked all the fuses under the hood.
Bonnet, for our UK readers. And all the fuses
which has power one side, had power the othe side.

Open the drivrs side door, and check the fuses in
the panel by the door. One little tiny blue one
had power one side but noth other. I pulled the
fuse to find the filament was open. Replace with
a same size fuse from my old parts.

Now try the OBDII, and it works. Throwing a couple
codes which I recorded. And then cleared the codes.

Hope that helps a bit. Hope the light turns off.

[Steve W.]

What were the codes?

Yep the lighter circuit also powers the OBDII port.
It doesn't power the ECM but when you plug a scan tool/reader into the
port, the power turns on the reader and signals the ECM that a reader is
connected.

--
Steve W.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

If you cleared the codes it also reset the CEL to off. If it is back
on one of those codes is a "hard code" and you have a definite
problem - the light will NOT go out by itself unless the bulb burns
out. What were the codes? Might be able to tell you what you need to
fix.

[Stormin Mormon]

OBDII trouble codes (two of them) says running
lean. What are some of the common causes?

Bad mass air flow sensor? Clogged injectors?
Poor quality gasoline?

And what to be done about the code?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/31/2015 7:19 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>
> What were the codes?
>
> Yep the lighter circuit also powers the OBDII port.
> It doesn't power the ECM but when you plug a scan tool/reader into the
> port, the power turns on the reader and signals the ECM that a reader is
> connected.
>

p0171 system too lean
p0174 system too lean
p0452 Evap emission system pressure sensor low
P1870 (not in my book)
P0171 pd
P0174 pd

Thanks for any and all help.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/31/2015 7:32 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> If you cleared the codes it also reset the CEL to off. If it is back
> on one of those codes is a "hard code" and you have a definite
> problem - the light will NOT go out by itself unless the bulb burns
> out. What were the codes? Might be able to tell you what you need to
> fix.
>

Well, a day or two later, the CEL light is back on.

Actually, the SES light. Same idea. Perhaps Monday
I'll check and see which of the codes came back.
Sure WOULD be nice to get the SES light to go out
because that's NEEDED for safety INSPECT.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/1/2015 4:51 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 10/31/2015 7:19 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>
>> What were the codes?
>>
>> Yep the lighter circuit also powers the OBDII port.
>> It doesn't power the ECM but when you plug a scan tool/reader into the
>> port, the power turns on the reader and signals the ECM that a reader is
>> connected.
>>
>
> p0171 system too lean
> p0174 system too lean
> p0452 Evap emission system pressure sensor low
> P1870 (not in my book)
> P0171 pd
> P0174 pd
>

Little net search finds 1870. Yes, I was having
rough shifting from 1 to 2nd gear.


http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/threads/look-here-trouble-code-p1870-for-harsh-1-2-shifts.54475/

Wonder how much that costs?


--

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/1/2015 4:51 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>

> p0171 system too lean
> p0174 system too lean

P0171 OBD-II Trouble Code Technical Description System Too Lean

Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 1 has detected a lean
condition (too much oxygen in the exhaust).

Note: This DTC is very similar to P0174, and in fact your vehicle may
show both codes at the same time.


You will more than likely not notice any drivability problems, although
there may be symptoms such as: a lack of power detonation (spark knock)
rough idle hesitation/surge on acceleration.

Causes
The MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor is dirty or faulty

[Don't know the vehicle history. But the air filter had
some black oil on it, so I used the filter from my last
vehicle.]

There is also an issue with some vehicles where the MAF sensors leak the
silicone potting material used to protect the circuitry.

[Who knows?]

There could be a vacuum leak downstream of the MAF sensor Possible
cracked vacuum or PCV line/connection Faulty or stuck open PCV valve

[PCV not all that expensive. Vehicle does use a lot of motor oil, might
be PCV.]

Failed or faulty oxygen sensor (bank 1, sensor 1)
[Who can tell? ]

Sticking/plugged or failed fuel injector
[Hope not.]

Low fuel pressure (possible plugged/dirty fuel filter!)
[No way to know the maint history of this vehicle. Fuel filter is fairly
cheap, about $15.]

Exhaust leak between engine and first oxygen sensor Possible



Solutions A lot of times, cleaning the MAF sensor and finding/fixing
vacuum leaks fix the problem. If you're on a tight budget, start there,
but that may not be the fix for certain. So, possible solutions include:
Clean the MAF sensor. Consult your service manual for it's location if
you need help. I find it's best to take it off and spray it with
electronics cleaner or brake cleaner. Make sure you are careful not to
damage the MAF sensor, and make sure it's dry before reinstalling
Inspect all vacuum and PCV hoses, replace/repair as required Inspect all
hoses and connections in the air intake system Inspect and/or test the
intake manifold gaskets for leakage Check for a dirty fuel filter and
proper fuel pressure Ideally you'll want to monitor short and long term
fuel trims using an advanced scan tool

© 2004-2015 OBD-Codes.com

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0171
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 16:24:04 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>OBDII trouble codes (two of them) says running
>lean. What are some of the common causes?
>
>Bad mass air flow sensor? Clogged injectors?
>Poor quality gasoline?
>
>And what to be done about the code?

Exactly what codes do yo have? Give me the number. A split vacuum
hose can do it. A plugged injector can do it. A bad fuel pressure
regulator can do it. A bad mass airflow sensor can do it. A bad
ambient air temperature sensor can do it.
Or you could have an O2 sensor malfunctioning telling the engine it is
running too lean, while the engine belches black smoke from running
way too rich.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Well, to start with you have either a leak in your evap control system
or a bad pressure sensor (or wiring to it) in the fuel tank - AND a
slipping transmission. That's your 0452 and 1870, respectively. Then
you have the vehicle running lean on both banks - which is quite
possibly a fuel pressure (or fuel delivery) problem, or a bad vacuum
leak - which COULD be related to the 0452 error. - or to the 1870
error

With the lean engine running problem AND a slipping transmission, the
first thing I would check is the line to the AT vacuum modulator
valve, or possibly the valve itself - and transmission fluid level. If
the fluid level is low and there is oil in the vacuum line, you have a
classic case of a ruptured modulator valve - which will also make the
vehicle smoke like a fiend when you re-fill the transmission.

A bad modulator will generally also cause harsh shifting of the
transmission - and delayed upshifts, due to the transmission thinking
you are under heavy load or full throttle accelleration.

If the thermostat is bad and the engine never warms up, the clutch in
the lock-up torque converter will never engage which MIGHT give you a
code for transmission slipping - but my bet is you will need a
transmission overhauled or replaced.

Like I said when you bought it, I hope you got it for the right price
- meaning not a dollar over scrap price.
With your level of automotive knowledge, buying older vehicles, in
particular, is a very dicey proposition, because you simply do NOT
know what to look for.

I, on the other hand, DO know what to look for, and generally what to
stay away from - and even I bought 2 cars I should never have touched.
I bought a 1985 Lebaron wagon that the body was too rusty,
particularly since it was also a non-runner with a 2.6 Mitso-Shitty
engine in it. I paid $1000 for a $200 car and had to put a complete
engine into it, piece at a time. I ended up with $2800 in it in
repairs. I DID get 5 years out of it - but it wasn't really a good
move.. The guy who bought it for parts when I scrapped it got a really
good (for a MitsoShitty) engine as I had done all the updates when I
rebuilt it - and a beautifull Mark Cross leather interior (which was
partly to blame for my making the decision to buy it in the first
place.)

I also bought a 1995 Pontiac TranSport with an overheated 3.8 engine -
knowing the engine was scrap and with 275,000km on it. Even with a new
crate engine in it, it never was any good - I got about 90,000km on it
between bouts of troubleshooting and repairs.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Generally $%2800 and up for a complete rebuild. The "and up" is the
addition of the new valve body.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 17:06:09 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/1/2015 4:51 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>
>> p0171 system too lean
>> p0174 system too lean
>
>
>P0171 OBD-II Trouble Code Technical Description System Too Lean
>
>Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 1 has detected a lean
>condition (too much oxygen in the exhaust).
>
>Note: This DTC is very similar to P0174, and in fact your vehicle may
>show both codes at the same time.

171 is bank 1, 174 is bank 2

>
>
>You will more than likely not notice any drivability problems, although
>there may be symptoms such as: a lack of power detonation (spark knock)
>rough idle hesitation/surge on acceleration.
>
>Causes
>The MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor is dirty or faulty
>
>[Don't know the vehicle history. But the air filter had
>some black oil on it, so I used the filter from my last
>vehicle.]
>
>There is also an issue with some vehicles where the MAF sensors leak the
>silicone potting material used to protect the circuitry.
>
>[Who knows?]
>
>There could be a vacuum leak downstream of the MAF sensor Possible
>cracked vacuum or PCV line/connection Faulty or stuck open PCV valve
>
>[PCV not all that expensive. Vehicle does use a lot of motor oil, might
>be PCV.]
>

Using a lot of oil is NOT a good sign

>Failed or faulty oxygen sensor (bank 1, sensor 1)
>[Who can tell? ]
>

If the O2 sensor reads too lean it will prompt the computer to richen
the mixture - so a bad O2 sensor will cause the engine to run rich,
while indicating lean.

>Sticking/plugged or failed fuel injector
>[Hope not.]

This is a throttle body injected engine so it only has 2 injectors. If
one is faulty and causing a problem they likely both are because both
banks read lean. Most often bad injectors on these engines dribble,
causing RICH mixtures.

>
>Low fuel pressure (possible plugged/dirty fuel filter!)
>[No way to know the maint history of this vehicle. Fuel filter is fairly
>cheap, about $15.]
>

More likely a bad FPR - the fuel pressure regulator is integral to the
throttle body on this engine - and failures are not unusual.

>Exhaust leak between engine and first oxygen sensor Possible

Again, this will cause the sensor to read lean, which will cause the
engine to run rich. It will also throw a 170/173 code because the
mixture is not responding to lengthened injection pulse.

>
>
>
>Solutions A lot of times, cleaning the MAF sensor and finding/fixing
>vacuum leaks fix the problem. If you're on a tight budget, start there,
>but that may not be the fix for certain. So, possible solutions include:
>Clean the MAF sensor. Consult your service manual for it's location if
>you need help. I find it's best to take it off and spray it with
>electronics cleaner or brake cleaner. Make sure you are careful not to
>damage the MAF sensor, and make sure it's dry before reinstalling
>Inspect all vacuum and PCV hoses, replace/repair as required Inspect all
>hoses and connections in the air intake system Inspect and/or test the
>intake manifold gaskets for leakage Check for a dirty fuel filter and
>proper fuel pressure Ideally you'll want to monitor short and long term
>fuel trims using an advanced scan tool
>

>Š 2004-2015 OBD-Codes.com

>
>Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0171
>Copyright OBD-Codes.com
>

And you want to find out what the problem with the transmission is
before spending a lot of time and money on the emissions. You also
want to find out what the oil consumption problem is. You ARE going
to spend more money on this vehicle than it is worth unless you have a
good engine and transmission from your old vehicle and the ability to
change them yourself. - or you can find a good used engine and
transmission from a low mileage wreck for cheap.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/1/2015 5:08 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Exactly what codes do yo have? Give me the number. A split vacuum
> hose can do it. A plugged injector can do it. A bad fuel pressure
> regulator can do it. A bad mass airflow sensor can do it. A bad
> ambient air temperature sensor can do it.
> Or you could have an O2 sensor malfunctioning telling the engine it is
> running too lean, while the engine belches black smoke from running
> way too rich.
>

p0171 system too lean
p0174 system too lean

p0452 Evap emission system pressure sensor low
P1870 (not in my book)
P0171 pd
P0174 pd

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/1/2015 5:30 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> What were the codes?
>>>
>>

>> p0171 system too lean
>> p0174 system too lean
>> p0452 Evap emission system pressure sensor low
>> P1870 (not in my book)
>> P0171 pd
>> P0174 pd
>>
>> Thanks for any and all help.
>>
>

> Well, to start with you have either a leak in your evap control system
> or a bad pressure sensor (or wiring to it) in the fuel tank - AND a
> slipping transmission. That's your 0452 and 1870, respectively.

CY: Hmm. Interesting about the evap control. The one long trip I took, I
did notice shift from 1 to 2 gear had a bit of klunk to it. Not noticed
it since then, but since that time has been short trips. Not cross country.

Then
> you have the vehicle running lean on both banks - which is quite
> possibly a fuel pressure (or fuel delivery) problem, or a bad vacuum
> leak - which COULD be related to the 0452 error. - or to the 1870
> error

CY: One friend suggested bad P-C-V which is very
possible reason why it uses oil. I'll change that,
and also the fuel filter one day soon. See if those
help at all.

>
> With the lean engine running problem AND a slipping transmission, the
> first thing I would check is the line to the AT vacuum modulator
> valve, or possibly the valve itself - and transmission fluid level. If
> the fluid level is low and there is oil in the vacuum line, you have a
> classic case of a ruptured modulator valve - which will also make the
> vehicle smoke like a fiend when you re-fill the transmission.

CY: Fluid not low. I did check. Bad vac line,
well, very possible. I'll have that checked.

>
> A bad modulator will generally also cause harsh shifting of the
> transmission - and delayed upshifts, due to the transmission thinking
> you are under heavy load or full throttle accelleration.
>
> If the thermostat is bad and the engine never warms up, the clutch in
> the lock-up torque converter will never engage which MIGHT give you a
> code for transmission slipping - but my bet is you will need a
> transmission overhauled or replaced.

CY: I did have low coolant temp, until I
changed the thermostat. Hope that helps,
now.

>
> Like I said when you bought it, I hope you got it for the right price
> - meaning not a dollar over scrap price.

CY: Hope all you want, but prepare to be disappointed.

> With your level of automotive knowledge, buying older vehicles, in
> particular, is a very dicey proposition, because you simply do NOT
> know what to look for.

CY: Do you deliberately sound condescending and
superior? Or is it just your writing style?

>
> I, on the other hand, DO know what to look for, and generally what to
> stay away from - and even I bought 2 cars I should never have touched.
> I bought a 1985 Lebaron wagon that the body was too rusty,
> particularly since it was also a non-runner with a 2.6 Mitso-Shitty
> engine in it. I paid $1000 for a $200 car and had to put a complete
> engine into it, piece at a time. I ended up with $2800 in it in
> repairs. I DID get 5 years out of it - but it wasn't really a good
> move.. The guy who bought it for parts when I scrapped it got a really
> good (for a MitsoShitty) engine as I had done all the updates when I
> rebuilt it - and a beautifull Mark Cross leather interior (which was
> partly to blame for my making the decision to buy it in the first
> place.)

CY: Arrogant, condescending, superior, and tells
stories. What a combination!

>
> I also bought a 1995 Pontiac TranSport with an overheated 3.8 engine -
> knowing the engine was scrap and with 275,000km on it. Even with a new
> crate engine in it, it never was any good - I got about 90,000km on it
> between bouts of troubleshooting and repairs.

CY: Well, sounds like you need a good mechanic
to go with you when you look at vehicles to buy.

>> learn more about Jesus
>> . www.lds.org
>> .
>> .
>

Christopher A. Young

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Arogant? Nope. I don't just THINK I'm good - I know I am!!!

>
>>
>> I also bought a 1995 Pontiac TranSport with an overheated 3.8 engine -
>> knowing the engine was scrap and with 275,000km on it. Even with a new
>> crate engine in it, it never was any good - I got about 90,000km on it
>> between bouts of troubleshooting and repairs.

And I paid what the previous owner was offered by the scrap yard for
the Poncho. (and got exactly that back when I scrapped it 90,000km
later)

>
>CY: Well, sounds like you need a good mechanic
>to go with you when you look at vehicles to buy.

2 out of 26 isn't a bad record in my book - particularly when the 2
totalled less than $1500 purchase price.

My "cost of ownership" which includes initial purchase and all
repairs, less recovery on disposal, devided by the number of years
owned, has never been over $1000 per year except for the only new car
I ever owned. That includes tires and brakes, oil changes and
tune-ups, but not gas, insurance or license.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Just call a spade a spade. Your automotive knowledge is just enough
to get yourself into trouble, judging from past postings experience on
this site. These are the things you investigate BEFORE putting down
money on a vehicle.

I made the mistake of buying the lebaron in the rain at night 70

[Steve W.]

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 10/31/2015 7:19 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>> What were the codes?
>>
>> Yep the lighter circuit also powers the OBDII port.
>> It doesn't power the ECM but when you plug a scan tool/reader into the
>> port, the power turns on the reader and signals the ECM that a reader is
>> connected.
>>
>

> p0171 system too lean Bank 1
> p0174 system too lean Bank 2

Low fuel pressure from a weak pump or a bad pressure regulator. FPR on
that is on the spider inside the manifold. It's not a hard repair BUT if
you're there anyway it's a good time to do the fuel nut (lines that feed
the spider injector and return extra fuel) and intake gaskets.

> p0452 Evap emission system pressure sensor low input

Either the sensor is bad or the signal wire from it has shorted to
ground. This sensor plugs into a grommeted hole on the top of the fuel
tank in the same plate that the pump and sender are under, looks just
like a MAP sensor. IF you have small hands it can be changed without
dropping the tank.

> P1870 (not in my book)

Bad TCC valve body, Basically the shuttle valve scores the cylinder and
the pressure leaks around the valve and you get a jerky 1-2 shift.
Common issue. Two options for repair. Replace the valve body in the
trans with the revised unit (used in that trans from 1999 on) or you can
buy a repair kit. The kit has a reamer and a stainless sleeve plus a new
valve shuttle. You pull the valve body, ream the bore, clean the valve
body, install the sleeve and re-install. Works real good BUT it's almost
as expensive as the new valve body.


You mention using a lot of oil as well. That could be a plugged PCV
system causing excessive blow-by or it may have a leaking lower intake
gasket. Could also be bad valve stem seals. Or it could be leaking from
the valve covers and running down the back of the engine.

>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> -
> .
> Christopher A. Young
> learn more about Jesus
> . www.lds.org
> .
> .

--
Steve W.

[Steve W.]

98 Blazer would be a 4.3 with a spider injector.

--
Steve W.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:35:39 -0500, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote

>>
>> This is a throttle body injected engine so it only has 2 injectors. If
>> one is faulty and causing a problem they likely both are because both
>> banks read lean. Most often bad injectors on these engines dribble,
>> causing RICH mixtures.
>
>98 Blazer would be a 4.3 with a spider injector.

My bad - you are correct - it is the CFI system.
>

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:33:37 -0500, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:

Or it could have been overheated and the rings lost their tension, or
it could have been neglected and have the oil control rings stuck, or
any of about a half dozen other excuses for letting oil past the
rings.

If it's not smoking on cold start, not likely valve seals, but
stranger things have happened.

What's the compression like, and what do the plugs look like???

[Ashton Crusher]

Are you doing repairs yourself and if so does that cost include your
time?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:47:32 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

I do my own oil changes and brakes. Other than that I have virtually
no repairs. Right now I DO have a minor problem on my wife's 16 year
old Ford Taurus (96,000km, purchased about 3 (or is it 4 already)
years ago for $6500) - the door ajar light is coming on
intermittently, and the alarm goes off if left parked with the alarm
armed. I'll have to check that out to see if it is just a $35 switch,
a bad wire, or the GEM module.
Cost of repairs so far since purchase? a set of tires and front
brakes, as well as a $30 part in the PATS system.

My 20 year old ranger, with 373000km on it has gotten a set of U
joints, front brakes, and tires, plus I added air conditioning and
changed the stereo (the old one still worked but was a cassette
player). I bought it about the same time as the Taurus with 307,000km
on it for $2400 (actually $1500 + $900 to have the clutch and release
bearing replaced and all the fluids changed and safety check)

The tires were not worn out - I upgraded from the stock 14s to 16s.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?action=view&journalid=127780
if you want to see what $2400 will buy. Actually as it sits it's $2800
- I paid $400 for the mags and tires

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/2/2015 3:44 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Or it could have been overheated and the rings lost their tension, or
> it could have been neglected and have the oil control rings stuck, or
> any of about a half dozen other excuses for letting oil past the
> rings.

CY: All of those possible. Yes, the vehicle uses oil. When I bought it,
the oil was coal tar black. When the title arrives, I'll do the
registration and take it in for safetey inspect. At that point, get the
oil changed and a fuel filter put on. See what codes are coming back,
and return for the re-inspection.

>
> If it's not smoking on cold start, not likely valve seals, but
> stranger things have happened.

CY: No smoke, cold or hot.

>
> What's the compression like, and what do the plugs look like???
>

CY: Not checked either.


--

[Stormin Mormon]

Thanks for the list of ideas. A friend noted the oil running out. I did
see some oil at the back by cylinder 6, where the oil fill is. figured
that was people like me pouring outside of the oil fill hole. Who can tell?

Plans for the moment, include fuel filter, and also P-C-V valve. Check
for vacuum leaks and air intake leaks after the air filter. Plenty more
things to do. Also totally needs an oil chang. Drain out the old coal
tar. And some fuel system cleaner fluid.


--

[Steve W.]

The rear of the valve covers are a popular leak on the 4.3 I reseal a
lot of them and see oil use drop a lot.

>
> Plans for the moment, include fuel filter, and also P-C-V valve. Check
> for vacuum leaks and air intake leaks after the air filter. Plenty more
> things to do. Also totally needs an oil chang. Drain out the old coal
> tar. And some fuel system cleaner fluid.
>

Since it needs an oil/filter. Drop the oil, dump in a 75/25 blend of
cheap oil and diesel. Run it for a few minutes till it warms up. Then
drop that out. Changes the oil/filter. Now do a couple oil changes in
the first 5000 miles. Should undo much of the lack of oil changes.

--
Steve W.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/3/2015 12:47 PM, Steve W. wrote:
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> Thanks for the list of ideas. A friend noted the oil running out. I
>> did see some oil at the back by cylinder 6, where the oil fill is.
>> figured that was people like me pouring outside of the oil fill hole.
>> Who can tell?
>
> The rear of the valve covers are a popular leak on the 4.3 I reseal a
> lot of them and see oil use drop a lot.

CY: Would it make sense to change the valve cover
gaskets, or just pull em apart and seal? Using
Permtex IIb non hardening, or, what? I'd got to
go back out and look, see what needs to be removed
to get at the gaskets. While in there, change spark
plugs, wires, cap, rotor?

>
>>
>> Plans for the moment, include fuel filter, and also P-C-V valve. Check
>> for vacuum leaks and air intake leaks after the air filter. Plenty
>> more things to do. Also totally needs an oil chang. Drain out the old
>> coal tar. And some fuel system cleaner fluid.
>>
>
> Since it needs an oil/filter. Drop the oil, dump in a 75/25 blend of
> cheap oil and diesel. Run it for a few minutes till it warms up. Then
> drop that out. Changes the oil/filter. Now do a couple oil changes in
> the first 5000 miles. Should undo much of the lack of oil changes.

CY: I've heard of add a quart of transmission fluid
a day or two before the oil change. Have you heard
of that one? They used to sell a metal quart can of
oil system flush, which was probably kerosene. Not
sure how bad the lack of oil changes was. Hope nothing
catastrophic. Anyhow, thank you again.

[Steve W.]

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 11/3/2015 12:47 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> Thanks for the list of ideas. A friend noted the oil running out. I
>>> did see some oil at the back by cylinder 6, where the oil fill is.
>>> figured that was people like me pouring outside of the oil fill hole.
>>> Who can tell?
>> The rear of the valve covers are a popular leak on the 4.3 I reseal a
>> lot of them and see oil use drop a lot.
>
> CY: Would it make sense to change the valve cover
> gaskets, or just pull em apart and seal? Using
> Permtex IIb non hardening, or, what? I'd got to
> go back out and look, see what needs to be removed
> to get at the gaskets. While in there, change spark
> plugs, wires, cap, rotor?

New gaskets are cheap. I'd pull the covers, clean them and the heads.
While you're there check the grounds that connect the engine to the
body. Plugs, wires, cap and rotor are all good things. Pull the front
tires and go in under the flaps for the plugs, much easier than bending
your hands into pretzels to get them from the top, and it allows you to
check the front end at the same time.

>
>>> Plans for the moment, include fuel filter, and also P-C-V valve. Check
>>> for vacuum leaks and air intake leaks after the air filter. Plenty
>>> more things to do. Also totally needs an oil chang. Drain out the old
>>> coal tar. And some fuel system cleaner fluid.
>>>
>> Since it needs an oil/filter. Drop the oil, dump in a 75/25 blend of
>> cheap oil and diesel. Run it for a few minutes till it warms up. Then
>> drop that out. Changes the oil/filter. Now do a couple oil changes in
>> the first 5000 miles. Should undo much of the lack of oil changes.
>
> CY: I've heard of add a quart of transmission fluid
> a day or two before the oil change. Have you heard
> of that one? They used to sell a metal quart can of
> oil system flush, which was probably kerosene. Not
> sure how bad the lack of oil changes was. Hope nothing
> catastrophic. Anyhow, thank you again.

Same idea, a high detergent, thin lubricant to dissolve the crud and
thin the mix so it comes out clean.


--
Steve W.

[Stormin Mormon]

Tuesday Nov 03.
Found a couple old rotted vacuum hoses, near
the master brake cylinder. One collapsed flat.
Pulled em out, and cut new hose to size. One
by the fender wall, totally miserable to
replace. Others not much better.

Did also buy a P-C-V valve. Put that in soon.

[Stormin Mormon]

Will have to see how possible it is, to pull
the valve covers. Might be miserable. Well,
probably so.

Going after the sparks through the wheels sounds
good. On my 1989 Blazer, the spark #5 was a pain.
Two long extensions, one on the end of the other.
Got it, after a while.

The air intake tube didn't have any obvious rips
or gaps, so that's likely not the runs lean problem.

Hope the Lucas gas system treatment helps. Got a
price on fuel filter, today. Got to check think
it was cheaper at the other place. Sigh.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Do an engine shampoo to get rid of all the old oil so you can see if
there is a current leak. Also makes it easier to fix any leaks that
are found.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:47:30 -0500, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>

Also a good place to use the much-maligned "mechanic in a red can" -
Marvel Mystery Oil as 25% of the change oil. It works at gently
removing the gum and carbon from ring grooves etc.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:40:50 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/3/2015 12:47 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> Thanks for the list of ideas. A friend noted the oil running out. I
>>> did see some oil at the back by cylinder 6, where the oil fill is.
>>> figured that was people like me pouring outside of the oil fill hole.
>>> Who can tell?
>>
>> The rear of the valve covers are a popular leak on the 4.3 I reseal a
>> lot of them and see oil use drop a lot.
>
>CY: Would it make sense to change the valve cover
>gaskets, or just pull em apart and seal? Using
>Permtex IIb non hardening, or, what? I'd got to
>go back out and look, see what needs to be removed
>to get at the gaskets. While in there, change spark
>plugs, wires, cap, rotor?
>

Get the good gaskets. The rubberised cork stand up better than the
pore "rubber" ones. Make sure the vover surfaces are straighr - if
sheet metal they are often deformed by overtightening - I could tell
you a story about a Chevy inline six and a stock car race.

>>
>>>
>>> Plans for the moment, include fuel filter, and also P-C-V valve. Check
>>> for vacuum leaks and air intake leaks after the air filter. Plenty
>>> more things to do. Also totally needs an oil chang. Drain out the old
>>> coal tar. And some fuel system cleaner fluid.
>>>
>>
>> Since it needs an oil/filter. Drop the oil, dump in a 75/25 blend of
>> cheap oil and diesel. Run it for a few minutes till it warms up. Then
>> drop that out. Changes the oil/filter. Now do a couple oil changes in
>> the first 5000 miles. Should undo much of the lack of oil changes.
>
>CY: I've heard of add a quart of transmission fluid
>a day or two before the oil change. Have you heard
>of that one? They used to sell a metal quart can of
>oil system flush, which was probably kerosene. Not
>sure how bad the lack of oil changes was. Hope nothing
>catastrophic. Anyhow, thank you again.
>

Yes. I've heard of using ATF - and I've used it. It did work - but
that was back in the days of Dexron Type A fluid - not sure how the
current product would work. I know the MMO works.
Rislone, from Shaler Corp also has a product that works quite well. DO
NOT use engine flush on an engine that is that filthy. It is too
agressive. I'd be leary of the kerosene/diesel fuel as well.

Pull the rocker covers to replace the gaskets and see how badly
crudded up the valve train is, and if the oil is getting up to the
rockers. Be REAL CAREFULL about knocking crud down into the engine
from the valve covers. I could tell you a story about a terminally
neglected slant six and a misguided attempt to clean up the rocker
area of the engine (but you don't like me telling stories).

If the rocker covers are full of "diamonds" don't even bother trying.
Just chan ge the engine ot take it out and totally dissassemble,
clean, and rebuild.
>

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

You yanks are lucky - you can buy the MMO for less than the price of
good ATF - Walmart sells it for $4.78 for a "short" quart.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:05:20 -0500, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Tuesday Nov 03.
>Found a couple old rotted vacuum hoses, near
>the master brake cylinder. One collapsed flat.
>Pulled em out, and cut new hose to size. One
>by the fender wall, totally miserable to
>replace. Others not much better.
>
>Did also buy a P-C-V valve. Put that in soon.

Replace ALL of the evap control hoses while you are in there, along
with the vac hoses.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/3/2015 8:41 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:17:02 -0500, Stormin Mormon

>> Plans for the moment, include fuel filter, and also P-C-V valve. Check
>> for vacuum leaks and air intake leaks after the air filter. Plenty more
>> things to do. Also totally needs an oil chang. Drain out the old coal
>> tar. And some fuel system cleaner fluid.
> > Do an engine shampoo to get rid of all the old oil so you can see if
> there is a current leak. Also makes it easier to fix any leaks that
> are found.
>

Now, there is a good idea. They sell some foamy
stuff in a spray can. I can also use the coin
operated car wash at a nearby town. Thank you.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/3/2015 8:44 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:47:30 -0500, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>

>> Since it needs an oil/filter. Drop the oil, dump in a 75/25 blend of
>> cheap oil and diesel. Run it for a few minutes till it warms up. Then
>> drop that out. Changes the oil/filter. Now do a couple oil changes in
>> the first 5000 miles. Should undo much of the lack of oil changes.
>
> Also a good place to use the much-maligned "mechanic in a red can" -
> Marvel Mystery Oil as 25% of the change oil. It works at gently
> removing the gum and carbon from ring grooves etc.
>

What's your take on using a quart of ATF,
several days before the oil change? Does
that work as well as Marvel?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/3/2015 9:40 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:40:50 -0500, Stormin Mormon

>> CY: Would it make sense to change the valve cover
>> gaskets, or just pull em apart and seal? Using
>> Permtex IIb non hardening, or, what? I'd got to
>> go back out and look, see what needs to be removed
>> to get at the gaskets. While in there, change spark
>> plugs, wires, cap, rotor?
>>
>
> Get the good gaskets. The rubberised cork stand up better than the
> pore "rubber" ones. Make sure the vover surfaces are straighr - if
> sheet metal they are often deformed by overtightening - I could tell
> you a story about a Chevy inline six and a stock car race.

CY: Hmm. Didn't know there were two choices. Thanks
for sharing which ones work better. I have seen
covers that were deformed. Had to be pounded flat.

>>
>> CY: I've heard of add a quart of transmission fluid
>> a day or two before the oil change. Have you heard
>> of that one? They used to sell a metal quart can of
>> oil system flush, which was probably kerosene. Not
>> sure how bad the lack of oil changes was. Hope nothing
>> catastrophic. Anyhow, thank you again.
>>
> Yes. I've heard of using ATF - and I've used it. It did work - but
> that was back in the days of Dexron Type A fluid - not sure how the
> current product would work. I know the MMO works.
> Rislone, from Shaler Corp also has a product that works quite well. DO
> NOT use engine flush on an engine that is that filthy. It is too
> agressive. I'd be leary of the kerosene/diesel fuel as well.

CY: Years ago, I heard that the synthetic oils
made the engines leak. What turns out, the
sludge acted as a seal, and the seals dried out.
The synthetic agressively cleaned the engine,
and removed the sludge seals. Oops.

>
> Pull the rocker covers to replace the gaskets and see how badly
> crudded up the valve train is, and if the oil is getting up to the
> rockers. Be REAL CAREFULL about knocking crud down into the engine
> from the valve covers. I could tell you a story about a terminally
> neglected slant six and a misguided attempt to clean up the rocker
> area of the engine (but you don't like me telling stories).

CY: Right!

>
> If the rocker covers are full of "diamonds" don't even bother trying.
> Just chan ge the engine ot take it out and totally dissassemble,
> clean, and rebuild.

CY: Will watch for that.
.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/3/2015 9:43 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:08:53 -0500, Stormin Mormon

>> Hope the Lucas gas system treatment helps. Got a
>> price on fuel filter, today. Got to check think
>> it was cheaper at the other place. Sigh.
>
> You yanks are lucky - you can buy the MMO for less than the price of
> good ATF - Walmart sells it for $4.78 for a "short" quart.
>

Oops, well, guess there is some to be thankful.

[Stormin Mormon]

I think a couple of the hoses run along the
drivers side rail, to the canister on the back.
Or, do they transition to metal?

[Steve W.]

Rubber in the engine bay, steel lines along the frame then rubber at the
tank.

--
Steve W.

[Stormin Mormon]

Thanks. I'll look for them. Wonder if either
of my books has some pictures and routing?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:32:08 -0500, Stormin Mormon

<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/3/2015 9:44 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:05:20 -0500, Stormin Mormon
>> <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tuesday Nov 03.
>>> Found a couple old rotted vacuum hoses, near
>>> the master brake cylinder. One collapsed flat.
>>> Pulled em out, and cut new hose to size. One
>>> by the fender wall, totally miserable to
>>> replace. Others not much better.
>>>
>>> Did also buy a P-C-V valve. Put that in soon.
>> Replace ALL of the evap control hoses while you are in there, along
>> with the vac hoses.
>>
>
>I think a couple of the hoses run along the
>drivers side rail, to the canister on the back.
>Or, do they transition to metal?

Transition to metal, but on that beasty the metal could be a screen
by now too- - -

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Not quite true. The early synthetics disolved the plasticizers out of
seals and gaskets, making then harden up like steel or anthacite coal.
Then the seals filed grooves in the crankshaft, the harmonic balancer
snout, and anything else they ran against.
New synthetics do not have that problem.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Not sure if it works "as well as marvel", but it does work The marvel
is thinner and creeps better than ATF.
I prefer to use something "made for the job" when it is available at
the right price. Every time I go down to the states I bring a few
quarts of Marvel home with me, and I buy my Motorcraft oil filters for
the Ford at Walmart for under $5 instead of paying $18 up here.
I picked up the air filter for the Taurus for $7 - even aftermarket up
here is close to $25 - and if I can install genuine replacement parts
for less than the cost of aftermarket stuff - I DO.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Nothing like working on a clean engine. Makes EVERYTHING easier, and
you don't end up looking like a tar-baby when you are done - and
getting grease stains on everything you get within spitting distance
of. You don't end up dropping tools and screws into inaccessible
places, only to have them stick there so you can't even knock them out
because they are half burried in grease and crud.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/4/2015 9:08 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:27:00 -0500, Stormin Mormon

>> What's your take on using a quart of ATF,
>> several days before the oil change? Does
>> that work as well as Marvel?
> Not sure if it works "as well as marvel", but it does work The marvel
> is thinner and creeps better than ATF.
> I prefer to use something "made for the job" when it is available at
> the right price. Every time I go down to the states I bring a few
> quarts of Marvel home with me, and I buy my Motorcraft oil filters for
> the Ford at Walmart for under $5 instead of paying $18 up here.
> I picked up the air filter for the Taurus for $7 - even aftermarket up
> here is close to $25 - and if I can install genuine replacement parts
> for less than the cost of aftermarket stuff - I DO.
>

Lot to be said for using things made for the job.
Good observation.

Wonder why things are more expensive in Canada? Socialism?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/4/2015 9:11 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:25:52 -0500, Stormin Mormon

>> Now, there is a good idea. They sell some foamy
>> stuff in a spray can. I can also use the coin
>> operated car wash at a nearby town. Thank you.
> Nothing like working on a clean engine. Makes EVERYTHING easier, and
> you don't end up looking like a tar-baby when you are done - and
> getting grease stains on everything you get within spitting distance
> of. You don't end up dropping tools and screws into inaccessible
> places, only to have them stick there so you can't even knock them out
> because they are half burried in grease and crud.
>

People will wonder why my vehicle isn't rotted
out with rust, and covered with grease.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

That only accounts for our 13% sales tax burden in Ontario. I guess
a case could be made for higher costs of doing business due to health
care taxes etc raising to cost of labour. Average wages are also
higher in Canada (again, possibly explained by higher cost of living -
partly attributable to higher taxation rates.
But socialism isn't the only reason taxes in Canada are high. We have
more land area to service with roads and other taxpayer-supported
infrastructure, with roughly 1/10 the population - so that IS going to
cost more per person.
A lot of stuff doesn't even make it across the border because of the
requirement for English and French labelling. Other stuff doesn't get
here because it does not have UL-C or CSA approvals. What does get
here is oftenmarked up by American manufacturers and distributors
"just because they can"

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

We can't even buy MMO up here any more because the American
Manufacturer decided there was not enough sales to warrant spending on
"frenglish" lables. When it was last sold at Canadian Tire I could
occaisionally pick it up for $9.95 for an American Quart (whick is
less than a litre) More often it was closer to $12.00

[Steve W.]

I was just reading the postal regs for Ca. What a PIA to send things!!
Was thinking it would be a way to send "gifts" up there. Looks like they
make that a real pain...

--
Steve W.