96 5.7L distributor timing
Roy Reichwein
reinstalled in it's original position. It started but was missing and
running very rough with no power. Turning the distributor seemed to
make it worse or quit running (it was at the limit in the
counter-clockwise direction to begin with). So I though I might be off
by one tooth and tried moving it a few teeth in each direction. Now I
can't get it to start at all, even though I _think_ I got it back to
where it was. I know the hard way to set correct position by finding
TDC on #1 cylinder, And I need to find the tan wire, but I have some
questions:
Is this what they call the HEI distributor? It has one 3-prong
electrical connector, and the spark plug wires come out horizontally
from the sides of the cap.
Does turning the distributor change the timing? Or does it only
distribute the spark?
Is there a timing mark that I can put a timing light on, and if so
where is it?
Does the distributor drive the oil pump?
Can the distributor seat into the oil pump correctly in any position?
If I got the distributor in right the first time, what else could have
caused it to run so rough?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
-Roy
Dean Dardwin
Roy Reichwein wrote:
> I replaced the intake manifold gaskets and got the distributor
> reinstalled in it's original position. It started but was missing and
> running very rough with no power. Turning the distributor seemed to
> make it worse or quit running (it was at the limit in the
> counter-clockwise direction to begin with). So I though I might be off
> by one tooth and tried moving it a few teeth in each direction. Now I
> can't get it to start at all, even though I _think_ I got it back to
> where it was.
I know the hard way to set correct position by finding
> TDC on #1 cylinder, And I need to find the tan wire,
Good, you'll need to do both!
but I have some
> questions:
>
> Is this what they call the HEI distributor? It has one 3-prong
> electrical connector, and the spark plug wires come out horizontally
> from the sides of the cap.
>
Yes.
> Does turning the distributor change the timing? Or does it only
> distribute the spark?
Yes, no.
>
> Is there a timing mark that I can put a timing light on, and if so
> where is it?
Yes, harmonic balancer & timing tab.
>
> Does the distributor drive the oil pump?
The cam drives the distributor shaft which in turn drives the oil pump.
>
> Can the distributor seat into the oil pump correctly in any position?
No.
>
> If I got the distributor in right the first time, what else could have
> caused it to run so rough?
Lots of things. A vacuum leak is a likely candidate.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
Your welcome!
>
> -Roy
Sam Roza
"Roy Reichwein" <r...@reichwein.net> wrote in message
news:914ebeb9.02111...@posting.google.com...
> I replaced the intake manifold gaskets and got the distributor
> reinstalled in it's original position. It started but was missing and
> running very rough with no power. Turning the distributor seemed to
> make it worse or quit running (it was at the limit in the
> counter-clockwise direction to begin with). So I though I might be off
> by one tooth and tried moving it a few teeth in each direction. Now I
> can't get it to start at all, even though I _think_ I got it back to
> where it was. I know the hard way to set correct position by finding
> TDC on #1 cylinder, And I need to find the tan wire, but I have some
> questions:
>
> Is this what they call the HEI distributor? It has one 3-prong
> electrical connector, and the spark plug wires come out horizontally
> from the sides of the cap.
Despite wire positioning on the cap, Etc. It is an HEI Distrinutor. "High
Energy Ignition".
>
> Does turning the distributor change the timing? Or does it only
> distribute the spark?
Yes and Yes, at least a few years earlier. I don't know about your
96(they've switched to camshaft-triggered I think). If your distributor has
a green ring with wires on the shaft, and under the rotor, the distributor
determines position as well as distributes spark.
>
> Is there a timing mark that I can put a timing light on, and if so
> where is it?
>
THe timing mark can be found on the driver-side of of the crank pulley. It
is marked 0* 4* 8*and 12*. With the tan wire(located coming out of the
passenger side electrical harness on the firewall), unhooked, your truck
should sit at 0*, unless you have a modified engine.
> Does the distributor drive the oil pump?
Yep.
>
> Can the distributor seat into the oil pump correctly in any position?
>
Yes. As long as it is sitting at the correct depth, it is inserted
correctly.
> If I got the distributor in right the first time, what else could have
> caused it to run so rough?
Moving wires and removing/replacing ignition components can be hard on
parts. First thing's first- determine where TDC on #1 is. THen re-wire your
engine(spark plug wires, that is). Once you know beyond a shadow of a doubt
that you have the cap wired right, then you can go on to the next thing...
Which is Electrical harnesses. Make sure the Distributor plugs are in tight
and clean(mine has 2, but you only mentioned 1). THen verify that your coil
has a good connection and that it's grounded well.
One other thing...are you sure that your tan wire(ECM override), is plugged
in?
> Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
>
> -Roy
Sam
Roy Reichwein
> > Can the distributor seat into the oil pump correctly in any position?
>
> No.
>
This seems to be where I'm most confused. Sam ansered yes to this one,
and from what I tried it appears to seat all the way in any gear
position. It would go down to within 1/8" to 1/4" of seating, then I
would wiggle it and it would drop in all the way so the distributor
flange was compressing the ring gasket against the block. What
happened when I cranked the engine and it was not in the "correct"
position?
(I'll be working on this again tonight.)
Thanks again,
-Roy
Dean Dardwin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3DDA4854...@nospam.com>...
Roy Reichwein
Thanks for the reply!
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message news:<utkm9ep...@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Roy Reichwein" <r...@reichwein.net> wrote in message
> news:914ebeb9.02111...@posting.google.com...
<snip>
> > Does turning the distributor change the timing? Or does it only
> > distribute the spark?
>
> Yes and Yes, at least a few years earlier. I don't know about your
> 96(they've switched to camshaft-triggered I think). If your distributor has
> a green ring with wires on the shaft, and under the rotor, the distributor
> determines position as well as distributes spark.
>
There is a plate under the rotor that I didn't try to remove. There
must be some sort of position sensor under there. There is only one 3
prong connector and it goes in there.
<snip>
> > If I got the distributor in right the first time, what else could have
> > caused it to run so rough?
>
> Moving wires and removing/replacing ignition components can be hard on
> parts. First thing's first- determine where TDC on #1 is. THen re-wire your
> engine(spark plug wires, that is). Once you know beyond a shadow of a doubt
> that you have the cap wired right, then you can go on to the next thing...
The way the cap is laid out I have to get the rotor pointing in the
right direction - rewiring is not an option. And I'm 100% certain the
spark plug wires are in the correct order and location.
> Which is Electrical harnesses. Make sure the Distributor plugs are in tight
> and clean(mine has 2, but you only mentioned 1). THen verify that your coil
> has a good connection and that it's grounded well.
>
> One other thing...are you sure that your tan wire(ECM override), is plugged
> in?
Not sure at all. It should be cuz I don't know where it is so I
couldn't have messed with it! It was running great before I "fixed" it
;^) I will look for it tonight.
Thanks again,
-Roy
shiden_kai
"Roy Reichwein" wrote
> I replaced the intake manifold gaskets and got the distributor
> reinstalled in it's original position. It started but was missing and
> running very rough with no power. Turning the distributor seemed to
> make it worse or quit running (it was at the limit in the
> counter-clockwise direction to begin with). So I though I might be off
> by one tooth and tried moving it a few teeth in each direction. Now I
> can't get it to start at all, even though I _think_ I got it back to
> where it was. I know the hard way to set correct position by finding
> TDC on #1 cylinder, And I need to find the tan wire, but I have some
> questions:
Roy, this distributor in this year...is really more like
a camshaft sensor. This engine has a crank sensor (in the
front timing cover) and uses the distributor to provide
a cam signal that it compares to the crank signal.
You can rotate the distributor and you really aren't
changing the timing so much as changing what they
refer to as the Camshaft Retard Offset. What happens
if you don't set the distibutor within a few degrees
of where it should be, is that you set a code for incorrect
Camshaft retard offset. The computer compares the
two signals (crank and cam signals)
If you remove the dist cap, you should notice a very small
#8 stamped in the dist around the outer edge. When you
have the engine at TDC #1 and the dist installed correctly,
you turn the dist until the rotor lines up with that #8 mark.
Tighten down the dist at that point and you will be good
to go. There are also two marks on the dist shaft and
the dist gear that can be lined up as you install the dist
into the engine.....all things being equal....this will put
the dist in the correct position.
If you want to have a gander at the online GM manual,
e-mail me at shide...@hotmail.com and I'll give
you more info.
Ian
Dean Dardwin
I know that doing this the first time seems like "magical mystery tour"
but here's the deal...
The tang on the distributor shaft fits into the end of the oil pump
shaft. It goes together exactly one-way. Generally, if you did not move
the crank, it should go back together just like you said. If not, just
rotate the oil pump shaft with a big flat blade screwdriver and make it
match the correct position of the distributor shaft.
Do these steps and you'll have it...
1) Pull all the plugs. Rotate engine by hand (that's why you pulled all
of them) until your finger gets pushed off the #1 plug hole. Working
alone, you can also use a piece of tissue paper stuck loosely in the
plug hole. This is near TDC on the compression stoke. Doesn't have to be
exact.
2) Look at the distributor cap and find the #1 plug wire. #1 is the
front cylinder on the driver's side. Rotate the distributor shaft until
the business end of the rotor is facing near where the #1 wire will be
when the cap is replaced on the distributor.
3) If necessary, rotate the oil pump shaft as above.
4) Being sure to install the shim(s), insert the distributor into the
manifold rotating it slightly until it seats. If necessary, turn it to
align with where the #1 wire on the cap will be when you reassemble them.
5) Slightly tighten the clamp bolt but leave it loose enough to where
you can just barely turn the distributor with one hand.
6) Replace the cap, plugs, and wires.
7) Have someone try to start it. Using a gloved hand, rotate the
distributor slowly in the advance direction (clockwise) until it starts.
If it won't even fire, slowly rotate it back in the retard direction. If
it still won't fire, ignition timing is not the problem.
8) Once it fires, rotate it a little in each direction until you get a
reasonably smooth idle.
9) Now you can time it. I refuse to use timing lights as timing tabs and
timing marks on the harmonic balancer are often just plain wrong. Here's
what I do. Hook your vacuum gauge up to manifold vacuum. Turn the
distributor in each direction until you find the highest steady idle
vacuum. IOW, 20" hg and dead steady is better than 22" hg and a shaky
(rough/lopey) idle.
10) Tighten down the distributor clamp and have a cold one!
BTW, in the future, before you remove the distributor, matchmark the
distributor housing to the manifold (permanent magic marker) and the
distributor cap's #1 wire terminal to the firewall. That way, as long as
you have not rotated the engine, she'll go back together just as slick
as you got her out.
Dean
shiden_kai
"Dean Dardwin" wrote
> 9) Now you can time it. I refuse to use timing lights as timing tabs and
> timing marks on the harmonic balancer are often just plain wrong. Here's
> what I do. Hook your vacuum gauge up to manifold vacuum. Turn the
> distributor in each direction until you find the highest steady idle
> vacuum. IOW, 20" hg and dead steady is better than 22" hg and a shaky
> (rough/lopey) idle.
Better get back to tech school and learn some basics.
This is not how you time the distributor on a Chevy
in this year. I feel sorry for your "customers" if this
is how you install and "attempt to time the
distributor in a 1996 chev truck engine.
But of course, dealer tech's don't know shit...right?
Hell, man....you are supposed to be the Chevy God
and you don't even know this very basic procedure?
Camshaft Retard Offset...my boy.
Retardwin!!
Ian
Bob
"shiden_kai" <shidn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nYAC9.13558$bh1.1...@news1.telusplanet.net...
hard to believe tardwin even drives! I suppose if he doesn't need a timing
light he damn sure doesn't need a scan tool, so he probably has no clue
whatsoever what you mean by cam offset. Then again it took the same self
professed computer guru over a year to figure out how to turn his HTML off
and he probably still thinks google owns Usenet. I think I smell bullshit
and if I'm not mistaken Tardwin is standing in it.
Bob
shiden_kai
"Bob" wrote
> Wow!!! I'm not sure where to even start! After a post like that I find it
> hard to believe tardwin even drives! I suppose if he doesn't need a timing
> light he damn sure doesn't need a scan tool, so he probably has no clue
> whatsoever what you mean by cam offset. Then again it took the same self
> professed computer guru over a year to figure out how to turn his HTML off
> and he probably still thinks google owns Usenet. I think I smell bullshit
> and if I'm not mistaken Tardwin is standing in it.
Well, that's what we are here for...smell his bullshit and
then shove his face in it. Or as he says.....stomp his brains
until "it" comes out his ears.
Scan tool...what's that? We don't need no gawd damn
scan tool up in washburn county......ya hear!!!
It is all very amazing.!!
Ian
GaWd
with no knowledge...
Sam
"shiden_kai" <shidn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%0EC9.13874$Cn2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net...
GaWd
respond and now he's *poof* disappeared.
Sam
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:arf99e$4uj$0...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:34:57 -0800, GaWd put forth the notion that...
>
> > And to think, just this afternoon, Dean declared me an official
blow-hard
> > with no knowledge...
> >
> > Sam
>
> Again? That's the second time this month.
> --
> Checkmate
> Copyright 2002
> all rights reserved
> chec...@kotagor.com
Roy Reichwein
watt lamp to find the timing mark on the block. Then I lucked out - my
wife cranked it once and it landed on TDC. I pointed the rotor as
described, started the engine, and got the code for incorrect camshaft
retard, tweaked the distributor once and it was happy.
Except for a solid miss on cylinder 7. The timing light shows it's
getting spark. I swapped plugs with #1 - no change. I put the old #7
wire on - no change. Compression check reads 190 lbs. So it's the fuel
injector. I checked the big 16-pin plug on top of the throttle body
and it looks OK. Is there anything I can do short of pulling off the
plastic top of the intake manifold?
Many thanks,
-Roy
"shiden_kai" <shidn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<vUzC9.13537$bh1.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>...
GaWd
Sam
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:arfclr$ots$0...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:28:00 -0800, GaWd put forth the notion that...
>
> > Really? well I took him out of my kill-file just this afternoon so I
could
> > respond and now he's *poof* disappeared.
> >
> > Sam
>
> I'd never killfile Tardwin... he's too damned entertaining.
Dean Dardwin
Once again we have heard from the buttplug who like to snipe. You have
just proven you are a liar when you claim to be a mechanic. You do not
understand the first thing about Otto cycle engines.
Any Otto cycle engine can be vacuum timed. Anybody who has actually done
it knows this. For the reasons I gave, they should be vacuum timed.
Further, it eliminates all other variables and establishes the best
static advance for that particular engine.
Get some help, loser!
Dean
Dean Dardwin
<snip>
>
> Roy, this distributor in this year...is really more like
> a camshaft sensor.
What kind of drugs are you on dude? The distributor is more like a
distributor (doh!). It is not a camshaft position sensor. It contains a
CMP which the ECM uses to determine injector pulse timing. It has
absolutely nothing to do with ignition timing.
>This engine has a crank sensor (in the
> front timing cover) and uses the distributor to provi
Guess again, kitty litter breath! The CKP alone is used by the ECM to
adjust timing. It also provides an rpm reference and speed variation
reference over time to detect misfires.
BTW, while your goofy way of matching up the "8" on the housing to the
rotor alignment does work, it is by far the hard way to do it. It's near
impossible to see and presumes you have the original distributor on the
engine. No doubt you read it in a manual somewhere but in the real
world, real mechanics matchmark the distributor and cap exactly like I
stated.
Carp, quit trying to play mechanic. It does not become you!
Dean
<snip>
Dean Dardwin
Nope, you have to pull the plenum and fuel rail. You can then either
swap #7 with say #5 and fire it up to positively determine the condition
of the injector or you can test it... some auto parts stores will rent
you the tester... NAPA is one. You'll need a fuel pressure gauge as well.
BTW, if you haven't done this before, try real hard not to lose those
nasty little o-rings and be sure to put a drop of oil on them each time
you assemble them.
Dean
dc
take it even when you feel ok.
"Dean Dardwin" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3DDB578B...@nospam.com...
Bob
No.... as a matter of fact they don't, the ONLY way to set the distributor
correctly is by hooking up a scan tool and setting the cam offset to zero.
If you are going to be giving advice on Vortecs you should probably get some
training.
> Carp, quit trying to play mechanic. It does not become you!
That's pretty funny advice coming from you, considering that just a couple
of years ago you wrote the following:
From: Dean Dardwin (d...@dxd.com)
Subject: Re: When to replace/machine rotors?
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Date: 2000-09-15 07:52:30 PST
>I own a GM vehicle and always have my brake work done at the dealer to
>avoid this kind of problem. Yes, they are pricey but then again I trust
>them to do what is required; no more, no less.
>Good luck!
>Dean
I think it's pretty obvious who the "wannabe" is.
Bob
Roy Reichwein
down just fine in any gear position - it is not necessary to turn the
oil pump shaft. The distributor body really only goes one way because
of the electrical connector that plugs into it, and it has 20 or 30
degrees of rotation available. I used the timing mark cuz I found it
and happened to kick it over just right. Then the key is getting the
rotor pointed to where the #1 wire runs *inside* the distributor cap.
Find the contact and mark it on the outside of the cap (you can
actually see it in the plastic molding on top of the cap). The cap
routes the contact points along it's top so you can't just point the
rotor at the wire. Then I lined up the #1 contact point (again, inside
the cap) with the rotor and it fired right up. I absolutely,
positively appreciate *all* of the advice I have received from all of
you. This is the weekend project from hell. Tonight I get to tear into
the injectors...oh joy.
-Roy
Dean Dardwin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3DDB74DD...@nospam.com>...
Dean Dardwin
I know you're convinced you have a dead injector but given that you just
swapped the intake manifold gaskets, here's something else to think about.
Once in a while, an intake port will leak so bad the cylinder is too
lean to fire. I'm sure you know that the intake manifold is also the
valley cover. A vacuum leak on top of the manifold/head mating surface
can be found with a squirt of carburetor cleaner, any change in engine
speed or smoothness indicates a leak. A vacuum leak on the bottom of the
manifold/head mating surface is near impossible to find; the air is
being pulled out of the crankcase. You can try to read the plug or
better yet hook your vacuum gauge up to manifold vacuum and see what you
have at warm idle. If the reading fluctuates irregularly and is low,
like 12-16 in/Hg, most likely #7 intake port is not sealing to the head.
Unfortunately, a faulty injector (port-injected engine only) can cause
exactly the same vacuum reading.
Dean
Dean Dardwin
You are a liar and a fool.
Be careful, the brake rotor police are on their way to your house!
Dean
William R. Walsh
Dean gave what I thought was a very in-depth explanation of the process.
Checkmate and others (big surprise here) told us all that it was a load of
crap--and [may have given] gave us their way to do it.
Now, here's the question that I want answered. Imagine if you will that I
have the already mentioned truck and I'm looking to do what the original
poster asked about.
Now, if I do it Dean's way, will it work or not? What about Checkmate and
friends' way(s)?
(Put your opinions aside and tell me the FACTS...)
And once that question's answered, who really cares if Checkmate or Dean had
the easier or more correct way of doing it? If the job got done, why does it
matter so much?
I'm getting really tired of the constant mudslinging and I reckon that a lot
of new posters here simply leave and are disgusted. But, I guess that's the
price one pays when nobody's on the same sheet of music in here...
William the Exasperated...
William R. Walsh
> your tools at Harbor Freight, and live in a cardboard box from a Kenmore
> refrigerator.
Hmmm...how do you know?
Checkmate
On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:26:22 GMT, William R. Walsh put forth the notion
that...
> Alright...
Think of it this way, Bill...
Which is likely to be more accurate: having a factory-set pair of marks to
line up that can be directly related to the precise moment that the
ignition spark is delivered, or reading and attempting to interpret
readings on a vacuum gauge? There are too many variables in attempting to
do it Dean's way. Sure, it may put you in the ballpark, but it's by no
means precise. For instance, how would different cam grinds affect that
reading at different RPM's? How about valve lash, stretched timing chains,
worn sprockets, vacuum leaks? They may have tuned Model T's that way, but
I sure as hell don't know anybody in the real world today that does it like
that.
Gary Glaenzer
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> Which is likely to be more accurate: having a factory-set pair of marks to
> line up that can be directly related to the precise moment that the
> ignition spark is delivered, or reading and attempting to interpret
> readings on a vacuum gauge?
If you re-read his original reply, you will note that he prefaces his method
with his reasons for not relying on the marks: Because the outer ring of
the balancer can slip in relation to the inner (keyed to crank) part.
Bob
"Gary Glaenzer" <nobul...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:oRUC9.95666$QZ.14039@sccrnsc02...
disregard the timing marks altogether. It really doesn't matter much in this
case though since the timing is not adjustable in the first place. On the
Vortec engine the only thing changed by turning the distributor is something
called cam offset which refers to the relationship between the cam and crank
sensors. The ONLY way to get that right is to hook up a scan tool and set
the offset to zero plus or minus 2 degrees. If the setting is off a little
it will probably still run okay but the check engine light may come on.
While I have never tried it I think the distributor could be turned for a
fairly large amount without any effect on engine vacuum which makes deans
method worthless.
Bob
I'm curious Gary, on the engines where timing is actually adjustable do you
use a timing light or a vac gauge?
Bob
you were smart enough to snip the part where I PROVED you to be both a liar
and a fool.news:3DDBF5E1...@nospam.com...
Gary Glaenzer
"Bob" <rwknu...@charter.com> wrote in message
news:uto8all...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I'm curious Gary, on the engines where timing is actually adjustable do
you
> use a timing light or a vac gauge?
>
>
I use a light, AFTER verifying that the marks are accurate (use a long thin
screwdriver stuck in # 1 to feel TDC)
I'd never trust the marks without checking first, been burned too many times
by slipped outer balancer ring........
Bob
Bob
shiden_kai
"Dean Dardwin" wrote
> Any Otto cycle engine can be vacuum timed. Anybody who has actually done
> it knows this. For the reasons I gave, they should be vacuum timed.
> Further, it eliminates all other variables and establishes the best
> static advance for that particular engine.
It's not worth arguing with you on this one.
Some folks will probably figure that you know
what you are talking about. Wait until they attempt
to "time" a Vortec engine the way that you are
espousing. They will be wondering why the check
engine light is on. You talk out both sides of your
mouth...first you can move the distributor around
to adjust the timing, then in the next breath you
mention that timing is handled by the crank sensor
and the dist (see cam sensor) handles the injectors.
That was exactly my point, Camshaft Retard Offset.
I like saying that....it has the same nice ring to
it as Dean Retard Dardwin.
Darn, you used to irritate me...now I'm feeling
rather sorry for you.
Ian
Gary Glaenzer
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:25:08 GMT, Gary Glaenzer put forth the notion
> that...
>
> >
what ? 'never see' the outer ring slip in relation to the inner ?
I've seen at least a half dozen this year
all came to me because 'we can't set the timing right'; they would set base
timing per procedure, and it would run like shit
another thing I see a TON of is where the toothed 'cog wheel' in the
distributor slips on the shaft............
shiden_kai
"William R. Walsh" wrote
> Dean gave what I thought was a very in-depth explanation of the process.
>
> Checkmate and others (big surprise here) told us all that it was a load of
> crap--and [may have given] gave us their way to do it.
Read Bob's post...the key to this whole thread is that
Dean was giving the procedure for older engines. In
96, with the advent of the Vortec engine, the distributor
is nothing more then Chevy's way of incorporating a
camshaft sensor into their engine. As Bob mentions,
you will see no timing adjustment on a Vortec engine
by moving the "distributor" around. Timing is handled
by the computer and the crank sensor. The distributor
must be set to it's "specified" position and that's it. Or
else you get a service engine soon light coming on. I
know, because I've seen it happen to myself and other
tech's that work on these engines. I always mark the
dist and rotor "before" pulling it out when performing
an operation like an intake gasket replacement and
99% of the time it's right on the money when it goes
back together. But if not, the scan tool will allow
you to set the offset to it's specification.
If Dean could just bring himself to say...oops, I screwed
up...I was thinking of earlier style engines...I'd be the first
to say "no problem"....shit happens. But that will never
happen. It hasn't happened before, and it won't happen
now. Too bad, he's got a wealth of good knowledge.
It's just that "attitude and delivery" problem he has.
Ian
shiden_kai
"Bob" wrote
> I'd be lying if I said I never had been burned by a slipped dampner, LOL!
Or my other favorite....someone installs a Goodwrench
small block and doesn't take the time to either switch
over the old timing cover (with correct marks) or use
one of the 2-3 bolt-on timing marks that are usually
supplied with the engine.
Ian
hank
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:arh42i$j7f$0...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:29:49 GMT, William R. Walsh put forth the notion
> that...
>
> I read about it in the Inquirer.
"Doc"
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:33:52 -0500, hank put forth the notion that...
>
> > you read the Enquirer??????
>
> Only while standing in the checkout line.
>
Hey, don't knock the Enquirer, makes great shitter reading material!
Doc
hank
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:arhe73$r5a$0...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:33:52 -0500, hank put forth the notion that...
>
> > you read the Enquirer??????
>
> Only while standing in the checkout line.
>
>
>
GaWd
> If Dean could just bring himself to say...oops, I screwed
> up...I was thinking of earlier style engines...I'd be the first
> to say "no problem"....shit happens. But that will never
> happen. It hasn't happened before, and it won't happen
> now. Too bad, he's got a wealth of good knowledge.
>
> It's just that "attitude and delivery" problem he has.
>
> Ian
>
>
Exactly, but it's not going to happen. Even when he points fingers and
name-calls he refuses to re-visit those posts and either apologize or
respond.
:shrug: No skin off my head.
Sam
Roy
In my (limited) experience with the 96 5.7 Vortec, there is a machined
notch in a cast tab on the block, and a machined groove all the way
across the balancer. I assume the balancer is keyed, so there is no way
for either to move. There are no other timing marks or scale, so it was
useful for finding tdc, but not for timing (which can't be adjusted anyway.)
-Roy
GaWd
"Roy" <r...@nospammvista.com> wrote in message
news:utqdel...@corp.supernews.com...
> shiden_kai wrote:
>
> > "Bob" wrote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >I'd be lying if I said I never had been burned by a slipped dampner,
LOL!
> >
> >
> > Or my other favorite....someone installs a Goodwrench
> > small block and doesn't take the time to either switch
> > over the old timing cover (with correct marks) or use
> > one of the 2-3 bolt-on timing marks that are usually
> > supplied with the engine.
> >
> > Ian
>
> In my (limited) experience with the 96 5.7 Vortec, there is a machined
> notch in a cast tab on the block, and a machined groove all the way
> across the balancer. I assume the balancer is keyed,
You assume wrong. If the balancer was keyed, and therefore couldn't move at
all, what then, would be it's purpose? You might as well make it one solid
piece instead of two.
Trust me, they slip, they move. Is it likely to have done so in this case,
with a realtively new truck? Probably not, but NEVER assume that the
balancer is right.
so there is no way
> for either to move. There are no other timing marks or scale, so it was
> useful for finding tdc, but not for timing (which can't be adjusted
anyway.)
>
> -Roy
>
Sam
GaWd
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:34:35 -0800, GaWd put forth the notion that...
> one move. I never examined one excessively, but as I recall, the two
> pieces are riveted together with the rubber in the middle. I don't see
how
> in hell one piece could move in relation to the other.
The outer ring is not keyed, the inner one is. AFAIK, they're not riveted,
either. I wish I had one of my old big block MOPARs laying around to chop
the balancer up...
If the poster I was responding to was refering to the inner ring as being
keyed, I apologize for my misunderstanding. It is keyed to the crank.
Sam
>
>
>
> > so there is no way
> > > for either to move. There are no other timing marks or scale, so it
was
> > > useful for finding tdc, but not for timing (which can't be adjusted
> > anyway.)
> > >
> > > -Roy
> > >
> >
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
>
GaWd
moment of looking found one.
In this pic, the tip of my scribe points to the rubber "surround".
www.ramva.org/samroza/Balancer_pics/surround.jpg
And in this, it shows the face of the balancer where the 2 pieces come
together, showing no rivets or any other form of fastener.
www.ramva.org/samroza/Balancer_pics/front.jpg
And here is a side shot showing the overlapping pieces of the balancer.
www.ramva.org/samroza/Balancer_pics/profile.jpg
This is a 70's era MOPAR big block balancer, but they all pretty much look
the same(to me at least). THey're probably a bit different today, but I've
had more than one experience with slipped balancers(once in an older gen 1
smallblock 350 and once in a BB MOPAR 383), and I thought you'd like to see
these pics...
Sam
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:arjnoq$g9j$3...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:34:35 -0800, GaWd put forth the notion that...
> Every balancer I ever saw was keyed to the crankshaft, and I've never seen
> one move. I never examined one excessively, but as I recall, the two
> pieces are riveted together with the rubber in the middle. I don't see
how
> in hell one piece could move in relation to the other.
>
>
>
> > so there is no way
> > > for either to move. There are no other timing marks or scale, so it
was
> > > useful for finding tdc, but not for timing (which can't be adjusted
> > anyway.)
> > >
> > > -Roy
> > >
> >
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
>
GaWd
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:57:39 -0800, GaWd put forth the notion that...
> be stupid to put it on the outer piece IF there's any way for it to move
in
> relation to the inner piece. I can't believe auto makers would be that
> stupid (although I've been surprised before).
Surprise, The timing mark is on the outer piece.
GaWd
pic entitled "profile".
Sam
"GaWd" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:utqr48...@corp.supernews.com...
Gary Glaenzer
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> Yes, and I'm pretty sure the timing mark is on the inner piece. It would
in
> relation to the inner piece. I can't believe auto makers would be that
> stupid (although I've been surprised before).
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!!!!!!!
sorry...........................