2003 Chevy, GMC 4 wheel drive problem
Bowhunter1
owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the
truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and
set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what
codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of
ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on
again.
3-4-03 UPDATE
Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a
document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs
C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME)
#03-0-21-001 - (02/14/2003)
I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of
the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to
replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom
line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea
when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so
that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD
it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure
what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I
would appreciate it if you would tell your story.
I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this
truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the replies
to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed out
Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a
loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the
truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know
defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and that
it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module would
be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase the
Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would
probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I guess
you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you can
never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions.
My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document is
dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no repair
available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not being
able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know BUYER
BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues should
be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me there
is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not take
the car back. They told me it is GM's problem now. My answer to them is it
was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be the
dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche.
These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected:
2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4
wheel drive problem
RANT OFF!!!!!
Bret Chase
ever bought a new vehicle) you had 5 business days to return the vehicle for
ANY reason and the HAD to give you your money back.
I'm glad my 88 k2500 has a shifter on the floor, now I only wish it had
manual hubs and a straight axle in front over the IFS and CAD (though it is
MUCH better since I put in the 98+ actuator and harness). but you buy what
they build...
"Bowhunter1" <bow...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:gC99a.671248$HG.130...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
shiden_kai
"Bowhunter1"> wrote
> I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03)
of
> owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on
the
> truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and
> set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out
what
> codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of
> ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on
> again.
I just read the bulletin and it says that if the customer "must have" 4wd,
they
will put a new encoder motor into the truck. Tell them that you "must have"
the 4wd available...and let them put in a new encoder motor.
Ian
Bowhunter1
> they
> will put a new encoder motor into the truck. Tell them that you "must
have"
> the 4wd available...and let them put in a new encoder motor.
>
> Ian
It does say that but it also said that "Replacing the encoder motor with the
currently designed and released parts will most likely result in another
customer concern in a similar time frame as the original concern."
That just tells me all the parts in the existing trucks are defective as far
as I am concerned.
Michael
Bowhunter1
> they
> will put a new encoder motor into the truck. Tell them that you "must
have"
> the 4wd available...and let them put in a new encoder motor.
>
> Ian
Bob
design problem and just hasn't got a fix available yet. If I were you and
needed 4wd I'd go and ask them to replace the encoder motor. If you don't
need 4wd just give them some time to come out with a new and improved
version. I would venture a guess that having it replaced now would just
result in another trip to the dealer later to have the "new" version
installed. In my opinion the downside of replacing it now would be GM just
issuing a TSB and not a recall. You could wind up having a poorly designed
part that lives long enough to get past the warranty. Ian knows more about
this than I do however..... if he follows with any advice you'd be wise to
follow it.
Bob
Bowhunter1
Marc Westerlind
> I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of
> the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to
> replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom
> line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea
> when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so
> that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD
> it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure
> what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I
> would appreciate it if you would tell your story.
This is strange. I've personally never heard of this issue, but
I have an '02 Avalanche. I wonder why GM changed 'something' from
'02 to '03, when the '02 seem to work just fine.
I saw that you ran this by some forums... Did one of which happen to
be: http://www.cafcna.com ? If not, (and if you don't have a login)
I can run this issue by them.
-marc
R. Makul K1XV
wrote:
==================
I have a similar problem with a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. For model year
2003, it appears GM went to a different wiring/control system
involving fewer actual hard wire circuits and more electronics on the
ends of the wires. I understand that there used to be over 50 wires
going into the driver's door, and for 2003 there are less than 20. I
wonder if this has something to do with this problem for 2003.
In my case, the lights on the 4wd selector switch developed a mind of
their own, changing to different positions by themselves even though
the truck remained in 2wd high. This may have first occurred when I
started the truck while warm before the various electronics in the
system all got to handshake with each other. I heard that when you
start these vehicles, you should wait to crank it until all the
various warning lights that come on at start up calm down.
I am now awaiting a "decoder motor" that the dealer says needs to be
replaced, but after reading up on this in various forums, I am not so
sure that will be a permanent fix.
I suspect this is some kind of software issue.
Ray
RS
already had the encoder motor replaced and it has held up thus far(1 month
and counting). However, I still think there is problem with 4wd. The
shifting from 2 to 4hi doesn't seem to be as smooth as my 98' was and when
decelerating in 4hi there seems to be a lot noise coming from underneath the
truck(not exactly sure what). I'm glad Spring/Summer is close and so won't
have to rely on 4wd for a while, but I would hope that GM get's a fix out
before next winter.
"R. Makul K1XV" <k1...@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:akmc6v41u4t6kfe5t...@4ax.com...
RS
already had the encoder motor replaced and it has held up thus far(1 month
and counting). However, I still think there is problem with 4wd. The
shifting from 2 to 4hi doesn't seem to be as smooth as my 98' was and when
decelerating in 4hi there seems to be a lot noise coming from underneath the
truck(not exactly sure what). I'm glad Spring/Summer is close and so won't
have to rely on 4wd for a while, but I would hope that GM get's a fix out
before next winter.
"R. Makul K1XV" <k1...@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:akmc6v41u4t6kfe5t...@4ax.com...
Paracletos
If it was me, I'd stick it up the dealer's ass, but, I realize
you aren't me.
I believe one of the other posters said check on lemon laws, I
think that would
be a good idea.
I would not underestimate the power of the BBB in such ordeals,
but its a pain,
and they are sometimes a toothless paper tiger, but I have got
instant action
when I had a business dead to rights with them too. Don't
underestimate the power of "the net"
in something like this either. You can file your complaint with
them online,
and to back it up, I'd also go here:
http://www.badbusinessbureau.com (which is
what the BBB should have been in the first place.
The BBB has to contact the dealer, GM, whoever you tell them to.
I'd bypass the
dealer if it boiled down to getting action. Go over their head.
(Remember the good ole days? I had
to write a letter to GM in Detroit, "handwritten," in the early
70's once to get my third engine replacement inside a 12K
warranty that the dealer refused to honor, and they sent one out
in
a crate the day they got my letter and instructed the dealer who
told me they wouldn't
replace it to call me when they got it)! So standing firm works.
So, in summarizing, file your complaints, but after filing an
identical complaint
with www.badbusinessbureau.com, print it out and use it in your
dealer and GM
communications.
Did you borrow the money for the truck? If you did, and are on
good terms with your banker, I hear
you can dump this thing and they won't finance that dealer
anymore. Thats something that really scares the poop out of
them too.
Good luck,
Para C.
Bowhunter1
"RS" <r...@yoyoyoyo.com> wrote in message
news:y3qdnSBGJp2...@comcast.com...
In my opinion this problem is a lot more than they are willing to admit to
at this point. I have had some communications with an insider at GM and this
person feels there is a major electrical control problem. Delphi engineers
are getting all kinds of instrument clusters back that are just shutting
down in the trucks but when they test them in the lab the find nothing wrong
with them. This persons thinks that the cold weather is effecting the
electronic controls. I would not be surprised if a recall comes out of this.
The document I have which states There is no permanent fix at this time says
that the change in the encoder is not a final fix. I am supposed to get a
call from customer service on Thursday. Lets see what they say.
R. Makul K1XV
wrote:
>
>In my opinion this problem is a lot more than they are willing to admit to
>at this point. I have had some communications with an insider at GM and this
>person feels there is a major electrical control problem. Delphi engineers
>are getting all kinds of instrument clusters back that are just shutting
>down in the trucks but when they test them in the lab the find nothing wrong
>with them. This persons thinks that the cold weather is effecting the
>electronic controls. I would not be surprised if a recall comes out of this.
>The document I have which states There is no permanent fix at this time says
>that the change in the encoder is not a final fix. I am supposed to get a
>call from customer service on Thursday. Lets see what they say.
--====================----
Yes, it would be interesting to see what they do say. Please post.
Ray
>
>
Dean
four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise everytime a
wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said they
found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still there.
They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer.
Do you have a noise?
Any ideas, anyone?
dean
Marc Westerlind
> I have a similar problem with a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. For model year
> 2003, it appears GM went to a different wiring/control system
> involving fewer actual hard wire circuits and more electronics on the
> ends of the wires. I understand that there used to be over 50 wires
> going into the driver's door, and for 2003 there are less than 20. I
> wonder if this has something to do with this problem for 2003.
That's right... I forgot they updraded the electrical system.
Sounds like you're on the right track here...
-marc
Marc Westerlind
It it just common four wheel drive noise? Mine makes all
kinds of light rumbling and resonating noises in four wheel drive,
when I'm on the throttle.
The only other noise I'm getting from my '02 is the whine from
the rear diff. There's a TSB out there to replace the driveshaft
with a dampened unit, if the customer complains enough. I know
a few guys who got a compele rear end out of the deal. Apparently
there were some machining flaws in the diff housing.
I've got 4.10's for what it's worth...
-marc
Dean
gear or wheel noise, somewhat like a brake shoe dragging, but it only does
it when in 4-wheel or 4-wheel auto.
"Marc Westerlind" <mwes...@emc.com> wrote in message
news:3E679855...@emc.com...
R M
nothing other than warning signs happenned...am going to dealer next
tuesday...
and my wife so wanted the Ford that with all the discounts and rebates was
about $6000 cheaper...
"Dean" <n...@reply.com> wrote in message
news:z_O9a.12422$jP2.1...@twister.neo.rr.com...
Tony
Tony
Perry
wrote:
>
Now that you mention this I've had the instrument cluster problem this
morning and it was cold (19 F). For about a minute I had nothing on
my display and them it all came back. Just a one time thing so far.
R M
stayed like it was and when i stopped and went into park and back in to
gear, it reset....
"R M" <bh...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:EoP9a.5544$88....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
P L
the older models been prone to this failure also? If so, do you know which
models as I am planning on buying a newer used 4x4 to replace my old 82
Chevy
"R M" <bh...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:KT2aa.20$gi...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
D.P.
My husband has a 2003 Silverado with the same problem. Picked up the
vehicle on 2/1/2003 and the SERVICE 4WD message starting about 2 1/2
weeks later at 454 miles. The dealership said they didn't know about
the bulletin until the beginning of March which means we made 3
meaningless trips to them for service. The situation has been getting
worse because the truck self engaged in 4wd low twice while it was
being driven. The dealership tried pulling the fuse after the first
time it changed gears, but it happened again. Anyway, after trying 3
different fuses, it happened a second time. They told me that they
have now disconnected the encoder motor and it shouldn't happen again.
I guess at this point I'd rather be without 4wd then to have it go
into 4wd low while I'm at a highway speed. The dealership told us the
same thing - it is between you and GM. We tried calling the 800
customer assistance number and found that to be a complete waste of
time. They know nothing, and must have forgotten the meaning of
customer service because they don't even return you phone calls. Its
been horrible. The dealership told us that GM has a fix that should
be available tomorrow (3/28). I'll believe that when and if... I
just hope when it does come in that it really does fix it. Can't take
too much more of this. I will tell you one way of getting their
attention - there is a number in the back of your owners manual to
call if you are not satisfied with the vehicle and the dealership and
customer assistance cannot help you. I believe it is AutoLine - a BBB
center in Va. for this kind of problem. We called and told them that
we wanted them to take the truck back. All this center can do is
forward you the forms you need to complete and ensure the proper
parties at GM are notified of your problem. We got a call from
Chevrolet within a couple of days. At least someone hears us now.
What good it will do remains to be seen. I'll keep you posted on our
progress. Hope you do the same.
R. Makul K1XV
(D.P.) wrote:
-----===================
Your is the first one I have heard of that actually switched itself
into 4wd (and 4wd low yet!!! Oy!!). I have had (and who knows, maybe
still have?) the same problem on a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. They changed
the encoder motor on mine. Would like to hear more about this new fix
to be available 3/28.
Ray
Bowhunter1
"D.P." <diane_...@swimwear-anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:2c01812f.03032...@posting.google.com...
The only way you are going to get any response out of GM is to fill with the
BBB. I did 2 weeks ago and got a phone call 2 days later from a new GM CA
person. I told her that I did not want to give back the truck but if she
could not satisfy me with some type of Payoff (I.E. a 5 yr.extended bumper
to bumper warranty with $0 deduct. and to make my payments until it was
fixed right). She agreed to the warranty and will send me a refund for my
first payment ($585) that I made on 3/25/03. My case will be left open until
the permanent fix is done to discuss further payments. The extended warranty
will be issued when the problem is fixed.
R M
mine started after bitter cold, and i was led to believe it was new part
used in 2003 that turned out to be cold sensitive...
mine has lights going every which way when it goes awry, BUT it has always
remained in 2wd...even when it appeared 4WD LO it was really in 2WD
I have 7200 miles on it already and admit, in a few days if a fix is not
acail, i will do as u did and contact the BBB..i do have memo from GMC, etc
etc...
u might be my new hero...
"Bowhunter1" <bow...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:5n5ha.42325$ZC6.13...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
D.P.
Well, the fix they promised would be in on 3/28 didn't come in and now
they admit there is no such part. All they managed to do is buy
themselves a little more time and give us more of a case. The
paperwork to the BBB is in the mail today. Thanks for the info on how
you are handling it - its great. We already figured on fighting for
the repair and an extended warranty (then going for a refund if it
couldn't be resolved in a timely fashion), but the refund of payments
until fixed is fantastic. I never would have thought they would go
for it. I'm sure my husband will be talking to them today about the
failed promise (actually it was more like a lie) from Friday. I'll
let you know how we make out.
R M
patience and understanding and no more, I today did file with the BBB...
I also warned as I made my offer to them to settle, that they have denied, I
will then complain to the MA Atty General and eventually Chase Bank who
holds financing on my vehicle.......news:2c01812f.03033...@posting.google.com...
