454 carb. question.
Josh Assing
What size of carb should be on a 454 engine?
I bought a truck from Montana down to sea level. After setting the timing
correctly & installing new plugs/wires/etc -- it seems to "miss" or "pop" when
I'm about 1/8 - 1/4 throttle from a stop or after shifting gears (manual
transmition)
Could this be caused from improper jets installed in the carb?
It has a new edelbrock carb on it; with an adapter plate -- would I be better
off just buying a new carb made to fit my manifold vs. this carb?
I'm not into "power" or "speed" -- so I'm inclined to change the carb to a
vacuum secondary (mechanical now) to help with fuel economy -- but if it
probably won't solve my problem of popping etc I won't...
I have timing set to 4 BTC and idle at 500
Thanks
-josh
---
Use my email, domain: jassing.com, emailid josh
Gary Glaenzer
needs a bit larger jets
where in MT ?
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:gnarsukf10f7033hq...@4ax.com...
Sam Roza
Sam
"Gary Glaenzer" <nobul...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:j%hz9.24186$O71.11864@rwcrnsc53...
"Doc"
Should be anywhere from 750-850 CFM for a 454 CID redlining at approximately
5300 RPM. Like Gary said, probably just needs larger jets.
Regards,
Doc
Sam Roza
Buy the edelbrock strip kit(about $50), it should contain a variety of
metering rods, and springs for "re-jetting".
Sam
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:2tiz9.7684$vN4....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Rubber Duck
operated valve on top.
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:gnarsukf10f7033hq...@4ax.com...
>
Josh Assing
Thanks.
-josh
Josh Assing
>Buy the edelbrock strip kit(about $50), it should contain a variety of
>metering rods, and springs for "re-jetting".
So there is no "rule of thumb" for setting it to sea level settings? just
experiment? How can I tell when i've got it right? I want to avoid damaging
the engine (duh).
I would imagine it's in the 750+cfm range -- but I guess a call to the store
with the #s of the carb is in order...
Josh Assing
No Clue! Any way to tell by looking at it?
or by any #'s that might be on it?
It's a mechanical secondary carb, edelbrock... that's what I know..
Thanks.
Josh Assing
that's what I was thinking... but didn't want to start messing with the carb
until I had 2nd opinion.
>needs a bit larger jets
How much "larger" should I go? Can I go to a parts store & just ask for jets
for this carb? or should I pull them 1st and go 2 sizes or so larger?
>where in MT ?
Truck was from billings I think.
Thanks.
Josh Assing
>5300 RPM. Like Gary said, probably just needs larger jets.
Ok; I just went off a shop manual I had but for the 86 it said "see underhood
sticker" -- there isn't one -- so I guessed -- at 500rpm it seems to idle nice
and not sound overlly loud -- i'll bump the idle; but probaly not until I swap
out the jets.
thanks.
Dean Dardwin
Get all the numbers off the carburetor and call or email edelbrock
(www.edelbrock.com) and get a manual for your particular carburetor.
If you can get the carb sorted out, a new manifold is cheaper than a new
carb if you want to lose the adapter plate. Be sure you have/get a
street-type dual plane manifold (Edelbrock calls them "Performers") and
not the "Performer RPM" which loses a little low-end torque. Especially
important on a manual transmission truck.
Dean
Sam Roza
located on...(going out to garaged roadrunner to check)...well,
unfortunately, I don't see a model number cast into it. Aside from the Weber
castings, there is one number cast into mine(8867). It is a 4bbl 750cfm with
electric choke.
Look at edelbrock's website and at least let me know whether it is the
Rochester replacement spreadbore carb, or an Edelbrock Performer carb. There
is a distinct difference between them in looks, so it shouldn't be too hard.
As far as the strip kit goes, download the user manual for your respective
carburetor series while at the site, and there is very concise info
regarding getting your carburetor "jetted" properly(no jets in an edelbrock,
just springs and metering rods).
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:v2sssucr4k705u4od...@4ax.com...
Sam Roza
Carter/Edelbrock carbs are Mechanical secondaries.
Back to school for you...
Sam
"Rubber Duck" <No...@this.time> wrote in message
news:usrtcc6...@corp.supernews.com...
Greg O
better
> off just buying a new carb made to fit my manifold vs. this carb?
>
Any one here question whether the adaptor plate may be leaking??
If you are unsure I would be tempted to pull the carb and adaptor plate to
ensure it is not leaking there first.
Greg
"Doc"
"Greg O" <goo...@SPAMemail.msn.com> wrote in message
news:3dceb659$1...@news.teranews.com...
I had thought that, but leaks near the vacuum source are usually very loud
and pronounced. He'd of most likely heard the tell-tale hissing sound by
now. Then again, if it's excessively noisy underhood, he might have missed
it altogether. It's definitely worth a closer look with a long piece of
heater hose to listen for leaks..........
Regards,
Doc
Rubber Duck
rods go thru the jets.
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:ustaa7s...@corp.supernews.com...
Rubber Duck
years. By looking at them people think that they are mechanical secondaries
because the blades in back open with the throttle linkage. But air does not
flow till the vacuum gets high enough to open the weighted secondary air
valves on top. There are no secondary squirters which are required for a
mechanical secondary carb. Another thing that makes people think its not a
vacuum secondary is it's lack of a vacuum dashpot on the side like a Holley,
but I guarantee you that they are vacuum secondary carbs. In fact I will be
willing to bet you that there are no edelbrock or carter AFB mechanical
secondary carbs.
Edelbrock are good carbs, just people have a hard time tuning them properly
as most are used to tuning a Holley. Edelbrock are more involved, and
require more thinking, but overall they run smoother for many reasons, which
I won't go into now.
Grease
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:ustacab...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
you'd have to agree with one of your sockpuppets? which one? one too many?
I see...
Sam
"Rubber Duck" <no...@needed.now> wrote in message
news:ustq895...@corp.supernews.com...
Greaseomenkey
Busted, I think not. My uncle, who is the Duck came to visit for hunting
season. While here he changed the identity on my computer, so his friends
would know who he is on his newsgroups. He spent some time surfing the
newsgroups I frequent and got all fired up. Sorry but I didn't notice this
until I checked back.
Sam, that post was from me, and as most here know, I know my way around
carbs, especially Edelbrocks. 1, they never made mechanical secondaries
Carter AFB or Edelbrock performers, 2 they do have jets, the rods go thru
them. The post you are replying to was mine. I will have a chat with my
uncle if/when he calls, or I might just send him a email. But there is
always the freedom of speech.
I am sure you can find differences in the posts, signatures, or whatever you
techno guys do.
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:aqmsj1$gd5$3...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:51:10 -0800, Sam Roza put forth the notion that...
>
> > You'd have to agree with Grease? or you'd have to agree with Rubberboy?
or
> > you'd have to agree with one of your sockpuppets? which one? one too
many?
> >
> > I see...
> >
> > Sam
>
> Heheheh... busted!
> --
> Checkmate
> Copyright 2002
> all rights reserved
> chec...@kotagor.com
"Doc"
"Greaseomenkey" <65bo...@yearight.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ustvpg...@corp.supernews.com...
> Ahem
>
> Busted, I think not. My uncle, who is the Duck came to visit for hunting
> season. While here he changed the identity on my computer, so his friends
> would know who he is on his newsgroups. He spent some time surfing the
> newsgroups I frequent and got all fired up. Sorry but I didn't notice
this
> until I checked back.
Get yer' lies straight. He stated "I have been lurking here for quite a
while and you have gotten under my proverbial skin." Seems to me if he was
reading your groups out of the blue <having NEVER read them before> he
wouldn't have stated he'd been lurking for some time, and he CERTAINLY
wouldn't know who Dean is. Really Grease, you gotta come up with a better
explanation than that.
It also seems rather odd that his points of argument were the EXACT SAME
points you and I have disagreed with in the past. Also, if he was so pissed
off at the "bad" information present on the ng, why did he ONLY REPLY TO MY
POSTS? Seemed like a rather personal attack for someone who had never
frequented this ng before. It was obvious he targeted me, and me alone.
>
> Sam, that post was from me, and as most here know, I know my way around
> carbs, especially Edelbrocks. 1, they never made mechanical secondaries
> Carter AFB or Edelbrock performers, 2 they do have jets, the rods go thru
> them. The post you are replying to was mine. I will have a chat with my
> uncle if/when he calls, or I might just send him a email. But there is
> always the freedom of speech.
You're damn right right you know your way around a carb, more so than most,
MUCH more so than myself. That 65' Chevy truck you restored is absolutely
BEAUTIFUL and I could only dream of having the bodywork skill to create such
a masterpiece. I used to regard you with a very high level of respect. I
"showed off" your truck to my buddy who is restoring a 64' Bowtie to show
him what his will never look like! I no longer hold you in that high esteem
Grease, and am very suprised that you'd resort to a USENET sock puppet to
relay how you really feel about me. If you had a problem, all you had to do
was say so and we could have discussed it like civilized adults.
>
> I am sure you can find differences in the posts, signatures, or whatever
you
> techno guys do.
The message headers are IDENTICAL. They all came from your computer.
Sorry. Facts are facts. You are Rubber Duck, and Rubber Duck is you.
There's no one here who thinks otherwise.
Respectfully,
Doc
Greaseomenkey
you want.
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:hzDz9.8050$_s2....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
"Doc"
> sorry but they didn't come from my computer, try again. But believe what
> you want.
Grease,
Read the 4th line in the message below. It reads "While here he changed the
identity on MY computer." Then read line's 6 and 7 :he spent some time
surfing the newsgroups I frequent and got all fired up."
So, he was visiting for hunting season, changed the UID on your computer so
he could check in with his ng buddies, and in the process read your ng's,
got all fired up and then posted, while visiting, from your computer, with
his UID. He also happened to know that Dean and I agree on just about
everything and give similar advice, which is strange seeing as how none of
the posts he responded to contained any of Dean's advice, just mine. How
then did he "accuse" me of "regurgitating" Dean's info when none of Dean's
advice was available as a reference. You still haven't explained the fact
that he just "popped in" yet also stated he'd been lurking for some time.
This mystery poster obviously had been on the ng for some time and was VERY
familiar with myself and also my friendship with Dean. He also argued the
EXACT points you and I have disagreed on in the past.
It was you Grease, just admit it while you're still ahead. I know it, you
know it, everyone on here knows it. I'm a nice guy and would forget this
ever happened if it meant we could discuss these matters in a civil fashion
and just get along. I have never qustioned your automotive knowledge as you
definitely know yer' shit. Why did you feel it necessary to question mine
in a barrage of flames just because we disagree?
Your Pal,
Doc
Sam Roza
> Ahem
>
> Busted, I think not. My uncle, who is the Duck came to visit for hunting
> season. While here he changed the identity on my computer, so his friends
> would know who he is on his newsgroups. He spent some time surfing the
> newsgroups I frequent and got all fired up. Sorry but I didn't notice
this
> until I checked back.
>
> Sam, that post was from me, and as most here know, I know my way around
> carbs, especially Edelbrocks. 1, they never made mechanical secondaries
> Carter AFB or Edelbrock performers, 2 they do have jets, the rods go thru
> them. The post you are replying to was mine. I will have a chat with my
> uncle if/when he calls, or I might just send him a email. But there is
> always the freedom of speech.
So it seems you're still just being contrary...on an Edelbrock, you remove
and replace jets to make them leaner or richer? Or do you simply change
metering rods and springs?
If the latter, then I suspect I'm right and you're just being as contrary as
your uncle, Rubber Dick.
Sam
P.S.- I've never heard of the edelbrock secondaries referred to as vacuum
operated, but until I get and answer from somewhere else, I'll assume you're
right.
Rubber Duck
I am a 52 year old truck driver, his fathers brother. He is a 30 year old
military guy. The computer ID's aren't the same you nitwit. Just the
couple he posted before realizing I changed his username. Hey to prove a
difference maybe I should stop by and user your washer/dryer take a shower
and sleep in a real bed at your house? How does that sound.
I say I have been lurking for a while, I consider it a while when I can skim
thru the past 2-3 years of thread on this ng. Time is relevant, as you will
find out when you are older. I guess anyone who uses the same server must
be the same person to you huh, all earthlink are the same person, all AOL
are the same, etc.
Go follow Dean around some more.
Sorry for any problems I created for you C.P. (grease to you nitwits)
Next
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:5yEz9.3181$6j7.10...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Sam Roza
magically, it didn't come from your computer?
Who's foolin who, greasey dick? Or, Rubber Monkey....or, sockpuppet galore.
Well, someone's full of shit.
Saom
"Greaseomenkey" <65bo...@yearight.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:usu46g3...@corp.supernews.com...
Greaseomenkey
first time.
Edelbrock uses jets that screw in the bottom of the fuel bowls (the ones on
each side). The stepped needle goes thru the jet to limit the fuel. You
can change the fuel ratio to a certain extent by changing the rods, but they
are limited. Then you change the jet to a larger or smaller size and have
more calibration ranges for the rods. Your strip kit, which I have comes
with a half dozen or so jets, and rods. The springs are equivalent to a
powervalve in a Holley, when vacuum drops they raise the needles out of the
jets to the smaller tips enrichineing the fuel. If you doubt me go download
one of the manuals from edelbrock and see for your self. For the tuning
charts they list both needle swaps and needle and seat swaps.
So in layman's terms you change the jets for big changes, and rods to fine
tune. Springs for change in cruise (high vacuum) and power mode (low
vacuum).
Is that clear enough for you. You stated they don't have jets, they do, and
they have rods. I don't know how more simple to write it.
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:usu8d9c...@corp.supernews.com...
Rubber Duck
Two posts in this thread came from him under my nickname. When he saw it,
he changed it. Those are the only two that match his computer id. But I
guess you cant look beyond that can you. Check all the Rubber Duck posts on
this and you will see what I am talking about.
Samantha, you can refer to me as Mr. Duck from now on.
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:usu9u1j...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
You have an attitude problem, and rather than being a cockwad, you might
want to put all those years of knowledge and service on vehicles to use on
this NG. Following Doc around and being contrary just to be contrary(being a
dickhead for a nitwit like you).
Regards,
MR. Roza
"Rubber Duck" <No...@this.time> wrote in message
news:usuauft...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
metering rod and spring changes, according to vacuum. WHereas on a Holley
you fine-tune by changing jets and powervalves.
I apologize for not making THAT crystal clear for you.
Sam
"Greaseomenkey" <my65b...@yearight.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:usu9ujm...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
>
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:51:59 -0900, Greaseomenkey put forth the notion
> that...
>
> > Ahem
> >
> > Busted, I think not. My uncle, who is the Duck came to visit for
hunting
> > season. While here he changed the identity on my computer, so his
friends
> > would know who he is on his newsgroups. He spent some time surfing the
> > newsgroups I frequent and got all fired up. Sorry but I didn't notice
this
> > until I checked back.
>
Yep, sure are!
- pull !@#$ William R. Walsh
Stop the presses...
dc
have never seen a AFB with a vacuum secondary in 32 years of engine
building. The air valve Geasemonkey is referring to prevents bog when you
stomp it. Its mechanical linkage that opens the secondaries. the air valve
just helps the secondary circuit operate smoothly but don't take my word for
it.
check this link http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/carb_square_specs.html
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:usu8d9c...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
or Edelbrock carb...
But what do I know, right? I'm not Greasy Dick or his Uncle, Rubber
Monkey...
Sam
"dc" <d...@inet.net> wrote in message
news:usuft7s...@news.supernews.com...
Greasemonkey
Primary Main System: The Primary Main system delivers an increasing
percentage of the fuel as throttle position increases (phasing over the Idle
System) and varies fuel delivery in response to air flow and manifold
vacuum.
Fuel is drawn through the Main System (Figure 3) by the pressure-drop that
occurs when the incoming air flow must increase in velocity in order to pass
the reduced throat areas at the Main Venturi (1) and the Boost Venturi (2).
This pressure-drop (or suction) is communicated to the system by the Nozzle
(3)-a brass tube that opens into the inside of the Booster Venturi (2).
The fuel must pass through the restriction at the Main Jet (4) and Metering
Rod (5). The Rod extends through the Jet, reducing the amount of area
available for fuel flow. If the diameter of the Rod is large, then fuel flow
through the Jet is more restricted than if the Rod were small.
After the Rod and Jet, the fuel enters the Primary Well and is drawn up the
inside of the Primary Well Tube (6). Sometimes this tube is called an
Emulsion Tube. Here, the fuel is mixed with air that enters the inside of
the Tube through a series of small holes. The air is supplied by the Main
Well Bleed (7) at the top of the Main Well. The air/fuel mixture exits from
the top of the Main Well into a passage that leads it to discharge into the
Booster Venturi (2) at the Nozzle (3).
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:usui4d4...@corp.supernews.com...
Greasemonkey
throttle blades and air valve are open. It ensures that fuel delivery varies
with air flow.
The Secondary Throttles (1) begin to open when the Primaries are about 65%
open. The Primary and Secondary Throttles arrive at the WOT stop at the same
time.
Air flow through the Secondary side is controlled by Air Valves (2). These
valves are located in the secondary bores above the throttle blades. They
are balanced against a counter weight and open to admit additional air flow
only if there is enough air velocity to allow the proper operation of the
Secondary Metering Systems.
directly from
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/eps_sect1.html
now shut the fuck up.
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:usui4d4...@corp.supernews.com...
Greasemonkey
a mechanical secondary carb as well. Guess again bud they are both vacuum
secondary's. I run a 1407 and a afb 625, have ran them for many years, and
actually work on them, getting them tuned in perfect.
Next time try to get a grip on the basics of operation before you speak up.
A mechanical secondary air velocity valve senses air-flow according to
demand and automatically regulates a smooth transition from part throttle to
wide-open throttle
Means it needs the vacuum to open the weighted air valve.
"dc" <d...@inet.net> wrote in message
news:usuft7s...@news.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
what I meant earlier and you're<gasp> ignoring it and being contrary for the
sake of contrariness, yet again.
Must run in the family...
Sam
"Greasemonkey" <my65b...@yearight.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:usul0dt...@corp.supernews.com...
Sam Roza
seem to say the same thing.
The QJ/Edelbrock carb is NOT a vacuum seondary carb. It is a mechanical
secondary carb with an air door that assists the secondaries.
Sam
"Greasemonkey" <my65b...@yearight.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:usuleea...@corp.supernews.com...
Josh Assing
>located on...(going out to garaged roadrunner to check)...well,
>unfortunately, I don't see a model number cast into it. Aside from the Weber
>castings, there is one number cast into mine(8867). It is a 4bbl 750cfm with
>electric choke.
top; on the front is 1411-2181
>Look at edelbrock's website and at least let me know whether it is the
>Rochester replacement spreadbore carb, or an Edelbrock Performer carb. There
>is a distinct difference between them in looks, so it shouldn't be too hard.
it does not look like a rochester, and from their website it looks like the
"square bore" performer.
>regarding getting your carburetor "jetted" properly(no jets in an edelbrock,
>just springs and metering rods).
Right -- just "rodded" sounded wrong <G>
Thanks.
Josh Assing
So I sprayed some ether in & around -- the idle did change; but it never
'returned' to what it was -- I would have suspected the idle to change and then
return -- I'll try this experiment again...
On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:48:35 -0600, "Greg O" <goo...@SPAMemail.msn.com> wrote:
>
>"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
>news:gnarsukf10f7033hq...@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> It has a new edelbrock carb on it; with an adapter plate -- would I be
>better
>> off just buying a new carb made to fit my manifold vs. this carb?
>>
>
>
>Any one here question whether the adaptor plate may be leaking??
>If you are unsure I would be tempted to pull the carb and adaptor plate to
>ensure it is not leaking there first.
>Greg
>
Josh Assing
swapping intakes either -- but this truck is far from stock; so one more change
can't hurt -- unless I break a bolt doing so <G>
-josh
On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:57:48 -0600, Dean Dardwin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Josh,
>
>Get all the numbers off the carburetor and call or email edelbrock
>(www.edelbrock.com) and get a manual for your particular carburetor.
>
>If you can get the carb sorted out, a new manifold is cheaper than a new
>carb if you want to lose the adapter plate. Be sure you have/get a
>street-type dual plane manifold (Edelbrock calls them "Performers") and
>not the "Performer RPM" which loses a little low-end torque. Especially
>important on a manual transmission truck.
>
>Dean
>
>
>Josh Assing wrote:
>> What size of carb should be on a 454 engine?
>>
>> I bought a truck from Montana down to sea level. After setting the timing
>> correctly & installing new plugs/wires/etc -- it seems to "miss" or "pop" when
>> I'm about 1/8 - 1/4 throttle from a stop or after shifting gears (manual
>> transmition)
>>
>> Could this be caused from improper jets installed in the carb?
>>
>> It has a new edelbrock carb on it; with an adapter plate -- would I be better
>> off just buying a new carb made to fit my manifold vs. this carb?
>>
>> I'm not into "power" or "speed" -- so I'm inclined to change the carb to a
>> vacuum secondary (mechanical now) to help with fuel economy -- but if it
>> probably won't solve my problem of popping etc I won't...
>>
>> I have timing set to 4 BTC and idle at 500
>>
>> Thanks
>> -josh
>>
>>
Josh Assing
No noticable noise...
but now that I have a new alternator -- the bearings were going out; it might
change hte volume level and I can hear -- but I listed pretty carefully around
the carb for hisisng... nothing "abmormal" (as far as I could tell...)
I'llc heck again.
-josh
On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:34:49 GMT, "\"Doc\"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>"Greg O" <goo...@SPAMemail.msn.com> wrote in message
>news:3dceb659$1...@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
>> news:gnarsukf10f7033hq...@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > It has a new edelbrock carb on it; with an adapter plate -- would I be
>> better
>> > off just buying a new carb made to fit my manifold vs. this carb?
>> >
>>
>>
>> Any one here question whether the adaptor plate may be leaking??
>> If you are unsure I would be tempted to pull the carb and adaptor plate to
>> ensure it is not leaking there first.
>> Greg
>>
>>
>
>I had thought that, but leaks near the vacuum source are usually very loud
>and pronounced. He'd of most likely heard the tell-tale hissing sound by
>now. Then again, if it's excessively noisy underhood, he might have missed
>it altogether. It's definitely worth a closer look with a long piece of
>heater hose to listen for leaks..........
>
>Regards,
>
>Doc
Sam Roza
rods, or springs, you'll have to start all over again. I think the 350 will
idle at about 650-850(?).
No biggie though. Make sure there's no vacuum leak, adjust the 2 metering
screws, and the idle screw and you should be good.
Did you download the user manual and pay attention to their tuning section?
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:klmvsuk55vt8id13q...@4ax.com...
> This is going to be a dumb question I'm sure...
>
> Since I need to find out what I have in there now; how can I tell *if* I
should
> go richer on power &/or cruise modes?
>
> The idle I can just let it idle for a bit and adjust the mixture screws,
right?
>
> (Never had an edelbrock before....)
>
> Thanks.
> -josh
Josh Assing
Josh Assing
>rods, or springs, you'll have to start all over again. I think the 350 will
>idle at about 650-850(?).
I guested at 500 which seems nice, smooth & not excessive.. I'll go a bit
higher.
>No biggie though. Make sure there's no vacuum leak, adjust the 2 metering
>screws, and the idle screw and you should be good.
Right.
>Did you download the user manual and pay attention to their tuning section?
Yes. Thanks.
However, it didn't help me much on the needles -- the needle that's in there is
stamped 16 7347 -- but I can't x-ref that to anything on their site/manual.
I'll mess with idle mixture first & double check for vacuum leaks.
Then I'll drive it around a bit and check the plugs. (20 minutes of driving
enough?)
dc
> Next time try to get a grip on the basics of operation before you speak
up.
>
> A mechanical secondary air velocity valve senses air-flow according to
> demand and automatically regulates a smooth transition from part throttle
to
> wide-open throttle
The above is correct
> Means it needs the vacuum to open the weighted air valve.
If you put Air Velocity in where you have Vacuum you would be correct.
I see now why you have spent a life time trying to tune them.
Do you know the difference between AIR VELOCITY and VACUUM?
Josh Assing
The PO was an idiot.
The adapter plate has a port on it (towards the firewall) so I couldn't see it
-- but he didn't bother to plug it up. Now it's plugged up.
When I pulled the carb off; he had doubled up on one gasket, and the other was
burned to a crisp.
I made new gaskets and reinstalled the carb & adapter plate.
Engine wouldn't idle (duh, major vacuum leak before)
Got the idle adjusted & then tweaked on the mixture screws to obtain max.
vacuum.
NOW the engine is hard to start; and diesels on shut down.
On hard accelleration it pops & backfires.
The metering rods that are in the carb are stamped with 16-7347.
Going on the owners manual -- I should just order the needles & jets (jets
require carb to be taken apart, right?) and start from there?
Or considering that the PO left a huge vacuum leak; is it safe to say that he
may have done lots of other damage to the carb in "adjusting it" (and with
backfiring) that I should just get a new carb & start there?
Thanks!
Sam Roza
Nah. Edelbrock's are really stout when it comes to backfiring...no
powervalves. If it's backfiring through the carb, change the timing. Hard
starting, backfiring and dieseling are all pretty much signs of timing. If
it's too advanced, it won't start easy, it'll backfire through the carb, and
as a result will run hot. When you shut it down, it can diesel.
Is it lean or rich right now?
Sam
Josh Assing
>powervalves. If it's backfiring through the carb, change the timing. Hard
>starting, backfiring and dieseling are all pretty much signs of timing. If
it's set at 4btdc -- that's what it should be.
>it's too advanced, it won't start easy, it'll backfire through the carb, and
>as a result will run hot. When you shut it down, it can diesel.
before "closing" the vacuum leak; it'd start easily and not diesel. It would
occasionally pop before "taking off"
>Is it lean or rich right now?
i'm gonna go with lean since I just got word that the jets & needles were
changed for higher elevation...
Sam Roza
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:ub92tusljj2g64o09...@4ax.com...
Sam Roza
Dieseling occurs when the cylinders are getting too hot and the unspent fuel
is allowed to fire. It can be a lean condition making the cylinders too hot,
spark timing too advanced with the same result, or simply hot carbon
deposits in the heads.
I'd guess it's lean, but only experimenting with carb settings, springs,
needle valves and rods, and keeping your nose glued to the tailpipe(Fun
fun!) will tell.
Sam
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:DFaA9.3547$c26.13...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
> news:ub92tusljj2g64o09...@4ax.com...
> Nope, it's rich. Dieseling only occurs when the mixture is set too rich,
as
> there is too much fuel being dumped into the cyliners which continues to
> burn after the key is turned off. It makes perfect sense. He had a major
> vacuum leak and dialed in way more fuel in the mixture to compensate for
the
> extra air. Now that you have a regular amount of air being sucked in,
there
> is way too much gas and it's running rich. Lean out the mixture and your
> woes should all but dissappear.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doc
"Doc"
> Ok; that makes sense..
> so I can assume the PO was a complete idiot and changed jets / rods the
wrong
> way for higher altitude becuase of the vacuum leak?
>
> Maybe I shoudl just go to "stock" jets/rods and try there?
Or you might have the "correct" metering rods in there and the PO just has
the mixture turned all the way up to compensate for all the extra air in the
mixture. Try turning the mixture down as far as you can with the existing
metering rods and see if that solves your problem.
Regards,
Doc
>
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:14:11 GMT, "\"Doc\"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
> >news:ub92tusljj2g64o09...@4ax.com...
> >Nope, it's rich. Dieseling only occurs when the mixture is set too rich,
as
> >there is too much fuel being dumped into the cyliners which continues to
> >burn after the key is turned off. It makes perfect sense. He had a
major
> >vacuum leak and dialed in way more fuel in the mixture to compensate for
the
> >extra air. Now that you have a regular amount of air being sucked in,
there
> >is way too much gas and it's running rich. Lean out the mixture and your
> >woes should all but dissappear.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Doc
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
Josh Assing
>the mixture turned all the way up to compensate for all the extra air in the
no; he admitted changing both jets & rods but doesn't have the orignal's....
>mixture. Try turning the mixture down as far as you can with the existing
>metering rods and see if that solves your problem.
they were severa turns out from "all the way in"
Josh Assing
>is allowed to fire. It can be a lean condition making the cylinders too hot,
>spark timing too advanced with the same result, or simply hot carbon
>deposits in the heads.
I live on an island; so all drivign is "stop & go" so it's hard t get to a point
that I can "read" teh plugs.
I suspect right now it's running rich considering that it came from Montana and
"ran good" with a vacuum leak -- now at sea level; and vacuum leak sealed
up......
>needle valves and rods, and keeping your nose glued to the tailpipe(Fun
>fun!) will tell.
yea; I can't tell by sniffing...
Josh Assing
I should start from "scratch" (or #1 in there owners manual) and go from there?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:43:21 -0800, "Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com>
wrote:
"Doc"
Nope, it's rich. Dieseling only occurs when the mixture is set too rich, as
there is too much fuel being dumped into the cyliners which continues to
burn after the key is turned off. It makes perfect sense. He had a major
vacuum leak and dialed in way more fuel in the mixture to compensate for the
extra air. Now that you have a regular amount of air being sucked in, there
is way too much gas and it's running rich. Lean out the mixture and your
woes should all but dissappear.
Regards,
Doc
>
>
>
Sam Roza
of the time, THEY don't even know what they've done.
If Edelbrock parts are readily available, I'd put it all back to stock and
see how she runs like that.
You live on an island? Where at?
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:40r2tus1ob3at8il9...@4ax.com...
Josh Assing
so I can assume the PO was a complete idiot and changed jets / rods the wrong
way for higher altitude becuase of the vacuum leak?
Maybe I shoudl just go to "stock" jets/rods and try there?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:14:11 GMT, "\"Doc\"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote:
Josh Assing
>of the time, THEY don't even know what they've done.
>You live on an island? Where at?
Anderson island, WA
Thanks.
-josh
Josh Assing
>deposits in the heads.
Ok; so I went out and just "mucked with it" -- timing is about 16 BTDC -- and
now it doesn't "pop" backfire, or deisel.
Could this indicate the timing chain has jumped?
There is absolutely no blow-by & otherwise the engine runs nicely....
The plugs are firing in the right order; so it's not that...
Thanks.
-josh
Sam Roza
bone-ass stock? Does it have emmissions equipment? What year motor?
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:gg53tusspbggous0n...@4ax.com...
"Doc"
> >spark timing too advanced with the same result, or simply hot carbon
> >deposits in the heads.
>
> Ok; so I went out and just "mucked with it" -- timing is about 16 BTDC --
and
> now it doesn't "pop" backfire, or deisel.
>
> Could this indicate the timing chain has jumped?
>
> There is absolutely no blow-by & otherwise the engine runs nicely....
>
> The plugs are firing in the right order; so it's not that...
>
> Thanks.
> -josh
16 BTDC at idle eh? WHOA! Did you take it for a spin yet? It's gunna ping
like the dickens under load.....................maybe your timing mark is
off? That sucker should be making all kinds of funny noises at 16*BTDC.
Maybe it was a timing problem all along and the timing mark on the damper is
off. Do you have the vacuum-advance ignition or the electronically
controlled CCC ignition system in that beast? Either way, the means of
spark advance needs to be disabled before timing can be set and an acurate
reading can be had. It might be 16* BTDC w/vacuum advance and only 8*
without. You catch my drift.
Doc
Bob
smoothes out it was lean, if it runs rougher it was already rich. Make sure
the timing is where it should be first though.
Bobnews:t0v2tuc7gdsiq76nm...@4ax.com...
"Doc"
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:aqscef$12e$3...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:31:23 GMT, "\"Doc\"" <som...@nowhere.net> put
forth
> the notion that...
Stranger things have happened. I've seen dampers where the owner used
timing tape (wraps around entire damper with timing marks) and was off by
ten degrees. Silly fellow didn't match up the "0" with the factory etched
mark! My guess is that the vacuum advance and/or electronic spark advance
system wasn't disabled and and it's reading higher than is actually "valid".
Doc
>
> --
> Checkmate
> Copyright 2002
> all rights reserved
> chec...@kotagor.com
Sam Roza
Secondly, it is indeed possible to have the damper mark move. It's just 2
pieces of iron with a rubber piece "damping" it, right?(that's how a MOPAR
damper is constructed, and the marks move all the time)
Sam
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:dnjA9.9019$Ge2....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Jon Larsson
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:ut3j4bj...@corp.supernews.com...
> Firstly, I don't think he has any spark control, it's a carbed engine.
>
> Secondly, it is indeed possible to have the damper mark move. It's just 2
> pieces of iron with a rubber piece "damping" it, right?(that's how a MOPAR
> damper is constructed, and the marks move all the time)
>
> Sam
Absolutely - had a '70 Dodge Powerwagon 4x4 w/318. Couldn't time the thing
properly with a light. The outer part of the pully would shift
periodically, so you never knew where you were.
Jon Larsson
"Doc"
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:ut3j4bj...@corp.supernews.com...
> Firstly, I don't think he has any spark control, it's a carbed engine.
1984-1987, or maybe it was 1985-1987 GM carbed engines used a system called
CCC (computer controlled carbeuration). OBD-0 if you will! I don't know
too much about them other than that the mixture is computer controlled via
an 02 sensor and a coolant temp sensor (there are others, I just don't know
what they are). These engines utilized computer controlled spark timing,
just like ours do. No vacuum advance, ignition control module, EST wire and
all. It is possible to yank the CCC 4-bbl carb and replace it with a
non-computer conrolled carb and regular vacuum advanced HEI ignition, but
I'm pretty sure Edelbrock makes a replacement carb with the electronics.
So, depending on the year and prior owners know how, he might have a non-CCC
carb mismatched with a CCC distributor..............or could have the full
blown CCC setup intact and indeed have computer controlled ignition.
>
> Secondly, it is indeed possible to have the damper mark move. It's just 2
> pieces of iron with a rubber piece "damping" it, right?(that's how a MOPAR
> damper is constructed, and the marks move all the time)
Not on a small block chevy. The timing mark is etched into the metal of the
damper itself so it can't move. Misplaced timing tape or failure to unplug
the vacuum advance/EST system is what's giving him the weird readings.
Take er' easy,
Doc
Sam Roza
on the Dodge engines? I've never taken a look at one close up, so I'm just
guessing, but they can't be too different from Ma MOPAR's dampers.
If they are like MOPARs, it is two pulley pieces joined by a rubber
"surround". If they get old and dry, the tend to move around a bit.
As for the CCC bit, that's interesting, I didn't know there was na
intermediate level of computer control prior to OBDI.
Sam
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:lWlA9.153$0R.82...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
"Doc"
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
> Are chevy dampers SOLID, or two seperate pieces of steel, like I mentioned
> on the Dodge engines? I've never taken a look at one close up, so I'm just
> guessing, but they can't be too different from Ma MOPAR's dampers.
That's a good question......I've never really taken a close look at one
while doing a rebuild............just put it back on without a second
thought. I'm pretty sure they're solid, but I've never paid much attention.
>
> If they are like MOPARs, it is two pulley pieces joined by a rubber
> "surround". If they get old and dry, the tend to move around a bit.
>
> As for the CCC bit, that's interesting, I didn't know there was na
> intermediate level of computer control prior to OBDI.
You don't see too many around. I had completely forgotten about them until
a month or so ago when a guy posted about idle problems and mentioned
"pulling codes" from his carbeurated engine!
Doc
Sam Roza
very well...
Sam
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:oAmA9.241$MH6...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
Josh Assing
4bdtc it runs like shit; at 16 it runs great... I'll try the carb cleaner thing
this morning...
Josh Assing
>bone-ass stock? Does it have emmissions equipment? What year motor?
totally stock. 1973 engine, 1986 truck. no emissions. HEI ignition.
Josh Assing
>like the dickens under load.....................maybe your timing mark is
>off? That sucker should be making all kinds of funny noises at 16*BTDC.
Nope. It's running great.. good accelleration; no pinging, seems to really like
16btdc....
>Maybe it was a timing problem all along and the timing mark on the damper is
Hmm. that's an idea. Never occured to me that the marks might be off...
>off. Do you have the vacuum-advance ignition or the electronically
vacuum -- and it was disconnected & plugged when I did the timing.
>controlled CCC ignition system in that beast? Either way, the means of
it has HEI ignition. Regular old carb'd engine.
dc
rubber ring and a press fit outer steel ring with the marks on it. They can
turn under extreme rpm. rarely on a stock motor. As for the cam jumping a
tooth it would be irrelevant to timing. you are timing the piston travel not
cam opening.news:oAmA9.241$MH6...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
Josh Assing
>smoothes out it was lean, if it runs rougher it was already rich. Make sure
>the timing is where it should be first though.
Ok; started the truck up -- got it up to temp; removed the air cleaner -- gave
it a quick shot of carb cleaner -- no change. another shot; no change.. A big
shot -- it idled rough for a second and came back to normal.
So according to your test; I'm already rich.. but this is just hte idle circuits
-- right? not the metering rods & jets.... or am I missing something?
Josh Assing
>rubber ring and a press fit outer steel ring with the marks on it. They can
I took a close look at mine - it does have a rubber bit in between two parts...
Part of the rubber (outter bits) are old, hard, and a bit is broken -- but the
outter part still feels very solid and I don't see any wobble in it -- but based
on the rubber condition -- I think that it may have turned....
I suppose I could put the #1 piston to TDC & make a new mark to really check it
out....
David W Chapman Sr
and Duck was right you can't teach some people anything.
____________________________________________________
From Van Mattiza [VMat...@edelbrock.com]
Its a mechanical secondary with a vacuum operated air door.
But it is considered a mechanical secondary.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Chapman Sr [mailto:dw...@inethouston.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: 1407 card question.
Is this carb ( 1407 ) considered a mechanical secondary or a vacuum
secondary?
Thanks
dc
Sam Roza
sdo it on an older vehicle.
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:01s4tu06usq6h1qvv...@4ax.com...
Sam Roza
aided in secondary travel by the air door which operates on air pressure,
NOT vacuum.
Sam
"David W Chapman Sr" <dw...@inethouston.net> wrote in message
news:ut510r1...@news.supernews.com...
Beave©
gave us this offering:
>
>On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:10:35 -0800, Josh Assing put forth the notion
>that...
>
>> >I would, you never know what some people do to their vehicles...hell, most
>> >of the time, THEY don't even know what they've done.
>> After what I saw on the adapeter plate.. I'm affraid they never do know...
>>
>> >You live on an island? Where at?
>> Anderson island, WA
>>
>> Thanks.
>> -josh
>
>I'll bet that's a pretty cool place. I want my own Island. Then I'll
>declare myself a sovereign nation...the Royal Republic of Czechmate, and
>apply for foreign aid from the US. Do you get dizzy driving around in
>circles, or is it a pretty big island?
>
>
Wanna buy a Candu reactor?<BG>
--
Beave©
Sam Roza
Sam
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:ar9mqt$iap$5...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On 17 Nov 2002 02:24:49 GMT, Beave© put forth the notion that...
> What can it do?
Duane Bozarth
bad design--eliminate need for enrichment and online refueling has
advantages for availability--of course, don't have the power density of
a PWR, but that has its own drawbacks...
Josh Assing
I got a hold of someone there and they said the "tuning kit" does not include
the "stock" needles & jets --- they said "Give me your address & I'll send them
to you"
No more trying to "guess" what stock should be... if the stock needles & jets
don't solve my problems then I'll consider the tuning kit and muck with jets &
needles.
Thanks to all.
On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:43:42 -0800, Josh Assing <jo...@jassing.com> wrote:
>
>What size of carb should be on a 454 engine?
>
>I bought a truck from Montana down to sea level. After setting the timing
>correctly & installing new plugs/wires/etc -- it seems to "miss" or "pop" when
>I'm about 1/8 - 1/4 throttle from a stop or after shifting gears (manual
>transmition)
>
>Could this be caused from improper jets installed in the carb?
>
>It has a new edelbrock carb on it; with an adapter plate -- would I be better
>off just buying a new carb made to fit my manifold vs. this carb?
>
>I'm not into "power" or "speed" -- so I'm inclined to change the carb to a
>vacuum secondary (mechanical now) to help with fuel economy -- but if it
>probably won't solve my problem of popping etc I won't...
>
>I have timing set to 4 BTC and idle at 500
>
>Thanks
>-josh
Sam Roza
I called Smittybilt about a tube bumper end cap that was lost lost ago,
intending on paying for it(4wheelparts.com sells them for $5 for 2). THe
girl I spoke to is sending it out to me, free of charge.
I was pleasantly surprised to say the least.
Sam
"Josh Assing" <jo...@jassing.com> wrote in message
news:hihktugc2jlu5c0k3...@4ax.com...
Sam Roza
part of the story out because this is a "family" oriented NG and the things
she said and did are just NOT right for this type of atmosphere...
Sam
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:ardp57$e39$1...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:37:22 -0800, Sam Roza put forth the notion that...
>
> > I had a very similar experience yesterday.
> >
> > I called Smittybilt about a tube bumper end cap that was lost lost ago,
> > intending on paying for it(4wheelparts.com sells them for $5 for 2). THe
> > girl I spoke to is sending it out to me, free of charge.
> >
> > I was pleasantly surprised to say the least.
> >
> > Sam
>
> That was my sister. I told her to hook you up.
"Doc"
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
> Well, she hooked me up in more ways than one, but I decided to leave that
> part of the story out because this is a "family" oriented NG and the
things
> she said and did are just NOT right for this type of atmosphere...
>
Sam,
You sure it wasn't his mom?
Doc
Sam Roza
LoL :-]
Sam
"Checkmate" <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote in message
news:are1n0$5e1$1...@pita.alt.net...
>
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, "\"Doc\"" <som...@nowhere.net> put
forth
> the notion that...
>
> >
> No, she woulda tore him a new asshole.
"Doc"
"Sam Roza" <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
> Got some experience there, do ya?
>
> LoL :-]
>
> Sam
Bwahahahaha!
Checky likey eh?
hank
life.
Hank
""Doc"" <som...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:0RzC9.3404$uy1.59...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
GaWd
Sam
"hank" <vog...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cHAC9.2443$8i7.7...@news20.bellglobal.com...
hank
hank
"GaWd" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:utlogol...@corp.supernews.com...
Beave©
gave us this offering:
>
>On 17 Nov 2002 02:24:49 GMT, BeaveŠ put forth the notion that...
>What can it do?
It can react.....and power your island.
--
BeaveŠ
Beave©
<SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> gave us this offering:
>Why would anyone want a canadian-built nuclear reactor?
Could say the same of american autos.....but I won't....at least we've
never had a recall.
--
Beave©