Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
Roland Perry
planes disgorge at once. But at least that meant the bags had been
delivered to the carousel by the time we got through.
The posh purple-FTR shuttle bus to the airport was replaced by a red
Citaro, all liveried-up so not a temporary thing. Had the vanity plate
'T5 FCC' disguising its age - but it was clearly not new. Ex-Boris,
maybe?
At Luton Airport Parkway, the "up" escalators are broken (no indication
of when they might be fixed) and a bus-load of PAX simply doesn't fit in
one trip of the lift. Having got to the platform, the PIS says that
"Easyjet tickets not valid on this service", which is understandable as
they don't sell northbound rail tickets!
Meridian to Nottingham with a very strong tiolet smell throughout. And
FC pax can apparently pick up their freebies from the buffet, now that
the chap "there must be an easier way to make a living" has finally won
his half hour battle to open the till.
--
Roland Perry
Adrian
were saying:
> The posh purple-FTR shuttle bus to the airport was replaced by a red
> Citaro, all liveried-up so not a temporary thing. Had the vanity plate
> 'T5 FCC' disguising its age - but it was clearly not new. Ex-Boris,
> maybe?
The vehicle details for T5 FCC are:
Date of First Registration 15 05 2009
Year of Manufacture 2002
So it was imported to the UK, used, earlier this year.
Must be from an RHD country, so Irish?
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> remarked:
>> The posh purple-FTR shuttle bus to the airport was replaced by a red
>> Citaro, all liveried-up so not a temporary thing. Had the vanity plate
>> 'T5 FCC' disguising its age - but it was clearly not new. Ex-Boris,
>> maybe?
>
>The vehicle details for T5 FCC are:
>
>Date of First Registration 15 05 2009
>Year of Manufacture 2002
>
>So it was imported to the UK, used, earlier this year.
>Must be from an RHD country, so Irish?
Googling the plate brings this up from a "bus spotter" site dated Aug
09:
"With the Wright Streetcars transferred to Swansea their place
on the Luton Parkway to Airport service has been taken by
Mercedes-Benz Citaro bendibuses from the Aircoach fleet at
Dublin Airport. Two were in operation in late June T3 FCC ex
02-D-74688 and T5 FCC ex 02-D-76812. The third of the batch
remains to be delivered."
I wonder if they'll be reducing the (zero before FCC arrived) fare, now
the main excuse (the FTRs) has disappeared in a puff of boiled frogs?
--
Roland Perry
Alan
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1j0tREOp...@perry.co.uk...
> In message <7jbn05F...@mid.individual.net>, at 15:19:33 on Sat, 10
> Oct 2009, Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> The posh purple-FTR shuttle bus to the airport was replaced by a red
>>> Citaro, all liveried-up so not a temporary thing. Had the vanity plate
>>> 'T5 FCC' disguising its age - but it was clearly not new. Ex-Boris,
>>> maybe?
> Googling the plate brings this up from a "bus spotter" site dated Aug
> 09:
> "With the Wright Streetcars transferred to Swansea their place
> on the Luton Parkway to Airport service has been taken by
> Mercedes-Benz Citaro bendibuses from the Aircoach fleet at
> Dublin Airport. Two were in operation in late June T3 FCC ex
> 02-D-74688 and T5 FCC ex 02-D-76812. The third of the batch
> remains to be delivered."
>
> I wonder if they'll be reducing the (zero before FCC arrived) fare, now
> the main excuse (the FTRs) has disappeared in a puff of boiled frogs?
> --
There was definitely an FTR atrocity there last Friday - I couldn't get on
because (as usual) it was jammed full. The red Citaro came in just as the
FTR was leaving & the remaining passengers got put on that. I thought it was
an ex-London bus as well.
Agree about the comments about the up escalator - there was no sign of any
work being done to sort it last week & it seems nothing's changed.
Paul Weaver
> In message <7jbn05F357a3...@mid.individual.net>, at 15:19:33 on Sat, 10
> Oct 2009, Adrian <toomany2...@gmail.com> remarked:
But how will they pay for the number plates?
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> Massive queues for the 3-out-of-6 immigration desks open, while several
> planes disgorge at once. But at least that meant the bags had been
> delivered to the carousel by the time we got through.
>
> The posh purple-FTR shuttle bus to the airport was replaced by a red
> Citaro, all liveried-up so not a temporary thing. Had the vanity plate
> 'T5 FCC' disguising its age - but it was clearly not new. Ex-Boris, maybe?
>
> At Luton Airport Parkway, the "up" escalators are broken (no indication
> of when they might be fixed) and a bus-load of PAX simply doesn't fit in
> one trip of the lift. Having got to the platform, the PIS says that
> "Easyjet tickets not valid on this service", which is understandable as
> they don't sell northbound rail tickets!
Luton Airport is the worst of any of them. No proper connection from the
station to the airport terminals themselves, which are full of surley
staff from budget airlines.
> Meridian to Nottingham with a very strong tiolet smell throughout. And
> FC pax can apparently pick up their freebies from the buffet, now that
> the chap "there must be an easier way to make a living" has finally won
> his half hour battle to open the till.
Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
Ian F.
news:CniAm.42338$lI6....@newsfe04.ams2...
> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
And it many cases it can be much less.
Ian
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk" <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>Luton Airport is the worst of any of them.
In some ways it's pretty bad - but "worst" is a bit of a stretch.
>No proper connection from the station to the airport terminals
>themselves,
There's a bus every ten minutes, which is better than some other
airports (eg Bristol and East Midlands).
>which are full of surley staff from budget airlines.
The airport staff are generally surlier than the airline staff.
>> Meridian to Nottingham with a very strong tiolet smell throughout.
>>And FC pax can apparently pick up their freebies from the buffet, now
>>that the chap "there must be an easier way to make a living" has
>>finally won his half hour battle to open the till.
>
>Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
I fly where there is route availability - and the budget airlines have
much more of that, to places I want to visit. Just got back from Lisbon,
for example, and Easyjet from Luton is much more convenient than TAP or
BA from Heathrow or Gatwick.
Typical pricing for 1-2hr flights from low-costs is half that of the
'normal' airlines.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfab...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>>airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>
>And it many cases it can be much less.
You'll have to quote a few examples, because I've been flying round
Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
that came in at 26 Euros plus 56 Euro tax (~�70); not that Brussels is
overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
The (triangular) trip I've just come back from was booked a month in
advance, London(Luton)-Geneva-Lisbon-London for a very typical �148 all
inclusive of one hold bag. And every flight was chosen for convenience
not price (and all were, on the day, completely full - that BA Brussels
flight had about ten pax on it!)
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk" <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>>>airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>> And it many cases it can be much less.
>> Ian
>
>Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
Using Heathrow is much more hassle than anything a low cost airline can
throw at me.
--
Roland Perry
DW downunder
>> Massive queues for the 3-out-of-6 immigration desks open, while several
>> planes disgorge at once. But at least that meant the bags had been
>> delivered to the carousel by the time we got through.
>>
>> The posh purple-FTR shuttle bus to the airport was replaced by a red
>> Citaro, all liveried-up so not a temporary thing. Had the vanity plate
>> 'T5 FCC' disguising its age - but it was clearly not new. Ex-Boris,
>> maybe?
>>
>> At Luton Airport Parkway, the "up" escalators are broken (no indication
>> of when they might be fixed) and a bus-load of PAX simply doesn't fit in
>> one trip of the lift. Having got to the platform, the PIS says that
>> "Easyjet tickets not valid on this service", which is understandable as
>> they don't sell northbound rail tickets!
>
> Luton Airport is the worst of any of them. No proper connection from the
> station to the airport terminals themselves, which are full of surley
> staff from budget airlines.
I was born in Luton, grew up in Perth (down under), studied and worked back
in England for 10 years (77-87) including buying a house in Luton.
Now back in Perth, and Perth International Airport works much like Luton
except there is no shuttle bus to a railway station, just shuttle buses to
the City, and others to districts with 3* + hotels.
The comments about Luton Airport are just as commonly been made about Perth.
As a cabbie, I've heard it often: "Worst Capital City airport in Australia!"
Maybe it's me -;) (Wherever I am, the airport attracts significant adverse
comment). Traffic growth has certainly outstripped airport facilities - the
mining boom drove that. The GFC has given the Airport owners just a tad of
breathing space to sort some of the problems. But as I write, the resources
industry here is gearing for another strong cycle of development. This time,
it's led by petroleum gas extraction, processing and export, but there's
quite a few iron ore, uranium and rare minerals projects advertising for
mining and construction personnel. Fly-in-Fly-out would appear to still
dominate staff resourcing of these projects, with concommitant growth of
traffic pressure on the Airport.
<SNIP>
DW down under
Neil Williams
wrote:
>I wonder if they'll be reducing the (zero before FCC arrived) fare, now
>the main excuse (the FTRs) has disappeared in a puff of boiled frogs?
I thought it became chargeable when the airport lost interest in
providing it themselves, so FCC said they'd take it on if they could
charge to cover costs?
I strongly suspect the FTRs were only there as prior to the Swansea
metro First had nothing to do with them, as in normal service they
require conductors.
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
Neil Williams
>Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
I fly from Luton because it's local. An 0700 flight is bad enough
without a 2-hour end to end journey to Thiefrow.
And you can get through Luton outbound very quickly, especially now
you can pay 3 quid to jump the security queue.
Neil Williams
>Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all.
Tim Fenton
>>
>>Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>>airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>
> I fly where there is route availability - and the budget airlines have
> much more of that, to places I want to visit. Just got back from Lisbon,
> for example, and Easyjet from Luton is much more convenient than TAP or BA
> from Heathrow or Gatwick.
There used to be a direct flight from MAN to LIS, but it stopped off at OPO
and I'm not sure it's still going.
So in the NW, there's little alternative *of any kind* to EZY LPL to LIS -
unless you're prepared to use a charter to FAO and then train/coach. That's
a half day penalty.
--
Tim
http://tim-fenton.fotopic.net/
http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/
MC
> In message <7jdqtrF...@mid.individual.net>, at 11:38:48 on Sun, 11
> Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfab...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>>> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>>
>>And it many cases it can be much less.
>
> You'll have to quote a few examples, because I've been flying round Europe
> at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
> I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
> that came in at 26 Euros plus 56 Euro tax (~�70); not that Brussels is
> overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
I recently flew by:
BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
I always try and avoid budget airlines if I can help it as they are not
always cheaper and they cut too many corners. I still believe flying should
be a comfortable form of transport, after all it can be quite stressful. It
certainly should not be like a bus service. More often than not I only have
to pay a few quid more, if not less, for an experience that is less
stressful, and thus a lot more enjoyable, on a full service carrier.
MC
Bruce
Williams) wrote:
>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:39:27 +0100, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk"
><houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
>
>I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all.
Taken as a whole, the EasyJet experience is a very good example of how
to operate an airline. Low cost, no frills, but otherwise excellent
customer service.
D7666
> certainly should not be like a bus service. More often than not I only have
> to pay a few quid more, if not less, for an experience that is less
> stressful, and thus a lot more enjoyable, on a full service carrier.
Thats a lot to pay for a free coffee and roll.
--
Nick
D7666
wrote:
> I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all.
So do I but they've just cut the most useful route for me - Luton -
Wien.
I'm using it again next week, buts its axed in their November changes,
and its rported not just a winter t.t. cut, its permanent.
--
Nick
Buddenbrooks
<houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CniAm.42338$lI6....@newsfe04.ams2...
> Roland Perry wrote:
> station to the airport terminals themselves, which are full of surley
> staff from budget airlines.
>
>
> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>
Why settle for surly when for a little more you can have surly and
condescending.
Unless you pay for Business Class or better.
Bruce
wrote:
It's also a lot to pay for flights that last for only between 40
minutes and two hours. For longer flights, I can see the point of
paying for greater comfort.
D7666
> >And it many cases it can be much less.
> You'll have to quote a few examples, because I've been flying round
> Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
> I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
> that came in at 26 Euros plus 56 Euro tax (~£70); not that Brussels is
> overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
It is possible to get cheaper flights by ''non-LoCo'' airlines, I've
done it.
The Opodo booking engine is one source - it has found me in the past
very low rate LHR Wien with OS, and LGW MUC with BA. But that is
comparing LHR/LGW like for like.
Not had recourse to use Opodo recently, essentially because of EZ at
Luton whre I live even if their fare is double the ''full'' airlines
cheapest offer, it dramtcally saves on time and effort and rail fare/
drive park.
The only drawback is a route like LTN-VIE (see other comment) is one
flight per day and the outbound while a reasonable ~16:00 local time
arrival in Wien, and Wien is an excellent city for a stop, my
destination is usually further east, and getting the 19:21 ex
Bratislava hl.st. to Zvolen is a bit dodgy ... all right on paper,
but only need to slight delayed arrival, missed an s-bahn / CAT, miss
the hourly train to Bratislava [*] at 17:28 and I won't make it.
[1] Yes In know there are 2 routes making 2 TPH but its not a symetric
half hourly service and one goes to Petrzalka which is n.b.g. for a
tight connection from hl.st i.e. if miss 17:28 above, the 18:05 to
Petrzalka does not get me anywhere.
--
Nick
rail
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
T5 is actually pleasant to use, which is more than one can say about Luton.
However I appreciate getting there from Nottingham is not the best journery
in the world.
--
Graeme Wall
This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
Miles Bader
> Why settle for surly when for a little more you can have surly and
> condescending.
Ha! If you'd fly a Korean airline, you could have violent and insane too!
-Miles
--
Alone, adj. In bad company.
Roland Perry
11 Oct 2009, rail <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> Using Heathrow is much more hassle than anything a low cost airline can
>> throw at me.
>
>T5 is actually pleasant to use, which is more than one can say about Luton.
There's nothing wrong with Luton outbound, but they suffer from chronic
under-manning of immigration (and long walks to get to it) on the way
back. Although my experience of T5 is equally long walks to get to
immigration.
>However I appreciate getting there from Nottingham is not the best journery
>in the world.
I can fly+train to central Amsterdam quicker!
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>>I wonder if they'll be reducing the (zero before FCC arrived) fare, now
>>the main excuse (the FTRs) has disappeared in a puff of boiled frogs?
>
>I thought it became chargeable when the airport lost interest in
>providing it themselves, so FCC said they'd take it on if they could
>charge to cover costs?
The airport used bone-shakers, but I doubt they could get away with
providing no service for this essential link.
>I strongly suspect the FTRs were only there as prior to the Swansea
>metro First had nothing to do with them, as in normal service they
>require conductors.
I can't parse that, especially as FTRs ran in normal service in York for
many years.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<f8b833fb-1845-460e...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, at
07:39:54 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, D7666 <d7...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>> I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all.
>
>So do I but they've just cut the most useful route for me - Luton -
>Wien.
>
>I'm using it again next week, buts its axed in their November changes,
>and its rported not just a winter t.t. cut, its permanent.
Ditto East Midlands-Geneva :(
BmiBaby fly that route, but only at weekends, and at entirely the wrong
times of day. So I'll be "forced" to use Luton again, I suppose.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Tim Fenton <timf...@btinternet.com> remarked:
>So in the NW, there's little alternative *of any kind* to EZY LPL to
>LIS
And that's only one flight every two days. Wouldn't have worked for me
as it's 16.40 depart Lisbon on a Friday, and my meeting wasn't scheduled
to end until 16.30 (and predictably over-ran).
And I wouldn't then be up for hanging around until 16.40 on Sunday to
fly home!!!
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<a0fd9a8b-8854-410c...@k33g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, at
07:51:53 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, D7666 <d7...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>> >And it many cases it can be much less.
>
>> You'll have to quote a few examples, because I've been flying round
>> Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
>> I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
>> that came in at 26 Euros plus 56 Euro tax (~�70); not that Brussels is
>> overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
>
>It is possible to get cheaper flights by ''non-LoCo'' airlines, I've
>done it.
It's possible, but doesn't happen very often.
>The Opodo booking engine is one source - it has found me in the past
>very low rate LHR Wien with OS, and LGW MUC with BA. But that is
>comparing LHR/LGW like for like.
Yes, I normally check a range of booking engines and site-scrapers.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
15:32:59 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, MC <a...@any.any> remarked:
>I recently flew by:
>
>BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
>BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>
>BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
Originating where? Heathrow perhaps. BA have pretty much abandoned
regional airports. If BA are flying those routes for the same-ish price
as a low-cost booked the same amount in advance, then it's good news for
people who can get to Heathrow.
But note that BA will now be charging for seat assignments, and
reportedly have scrapped food on short-haul. So becoming more like a
budget airline.
And I know that classic carriers can't compete on price with the budget
airlines in "many cases" (rather than a few), nor is �20 "much cheaper".
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2009, Miles Bader <mi...@gnu.org> remarked:
>> Why settle for surly when for a little more you can have surly and
>> condescending.
>
>Ha! If you'd fly a Korean airline, you could have violent and insane too!
What a strange remark. Are you a xenophobic? I've been to Korea and it's
a much more civilised place than the UK, despite rumours to the
contrary. Their airport frequently wins awards, too; and deservedly so.
--
Roland Perry
Buddenbrooks
Well apart from being banned to fly to any country in the EU.
JohnT
news:4ad1ec94$0$10037$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:KNPCqOpG...@perry.co.uk...
>> In message <7jdqtrF...@mid.individual.net>, at 11:38:48 on Sun, 11
>> Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfab...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>>>> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>>>
>>>And it many cases it can be much less.
>>
>> You'll have to quote a few examples, because I've been flying round
>> Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
>> I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
>
> I recently flew by:
>
>
> BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>
> BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
Since when have EJ (New England Airlines) been flying to and from the UK?
--
JohnT
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Buddenbrooks <knights...@budweiser.com> remarked:
>>>> Why settle for surly when for a little more you can have surly and
>>>> condescending.
>>>
>>>Ha! If you'd fly a Korean airline, you could have violent and insane too!
>>
>> What a strange remark. Are you a xenophobic? I've been to Korea and
>>it's a much more civilised place than the UK, despite rumours to the
>>contrary. Their airport frequently wins awards, too; and deservedly so.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Koryo
That's North Korea.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, JohnT <john31...@fastmail.fm> remarked:
>> I recently flew by:
>>
>> BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>>
>> BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>>
>> BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
>Since when have EJ (New England Airlines) been flying to and from the UK?
Anyone with an atom of common sense would have understood that he meant
EZY.
--
Roland Perry
JohnT
I was well aware that he meant Easyjet but he referred to New England
Airlines. This is a Ng related to AIR travel.
--
JohnT
Roland Perry
>>>> I recently flew by:
>>>>
>>>> BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>>>>
>>>> BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>>>>
>>>> BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>>>
>>>Since when have EJ (New England Airlines) been flying to and from the UK?
>>
>> Anyone with an atom of common sense would have understood that he
>>meant EZY.
>
>I was well aware that he meant Easyjet but he referred to New England
>Airlines. This is a Ng related to AIR travel.
Back under your bridge!
--
Roland Perry
Jim Mason
> In message <7jek2hF...@mid.individual.net>, at 18:47:58 on Sun, 11
> Oct 2009, JohnT <john31...@fastmail.fm> remarked:
> >I was well aware that he meant Easyjet but he referred to New England
> >Airlines. This is a Ng related to AIR travel.
>
> Back under your bridge!
Indeed - pedantry and trolling taken to a new low.
D7666
> >I thought it became chargeable when the airport lost interest in
> >providing it themselves, so FCC said they'd take it on if they could
> >charge to cover costs?
> The airport used bone-shakers, but I doubt they could get away with
> providing no service for this essential link.
It was not a case of FCC taking it on an charge a fee. The LTN/LAP bus
link has been TOC responsibility for some time ... even when it ran
from Luton in the pre-LAP days. Before FCC it was certainly embedded
in the GoVia franchise. I have not looked it up, but I am 99% sure it
is part of FCC franchise.
So if right, FCC did not ''take it on'' from the airport, they merely
put an ''improvement'' in that part of its commitment - new [awful]
buses and charge a fee.
--
Nick
Michael
> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>
>
That may be an option if you live in SE England. But for the rest of us it's
not at all realistic. I live on Anglesey - getting to Liverpool/Manchester
for easyjet and Ryanair is tedious enough, going to London so I could use
the allegedly superior service of "normal" airlines would be ridiculous.
D7666
> >Since when have EJ (New England Airlines) been flying to and from the UK?
> Anyone with an atom of common sense would have understood that he meant
> EZY.
U2
--
Nick
MC
> In message <4ad1ec94$0$10037$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com>, at
> 15:32:59 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, MC <a...@any.any> remarked:
>>I recently flew by:
>>
>>BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>>
>>BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>>
>>BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
> Originating where? Heathrow perhaps. BA have pretty much abandoned
> regional airports. If BA are flying those routes for the same-ish price as
> a low-cost booked the same amount in advance, then it's good news for
> people who can get to Heathrow.
Gatwick. Admittedly some "out of the way" airports are poorly served and
you do not get much of a choice. I am quite lucky in that I have good
public transport to my nearest Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted. Although I
still have to allow 2 hrs travel time.
> But note that BA will now be charging for seat assignments, and reportedly
> have scrapped food on short-haul. So becoming more like a budget airline.
At least you get a seat assignment. Some budget airlines make you run for it
in the hope of a decent seat and the older I get this is not an ideal
solution for me :o). Besides, BA will only charge for early seat (prior to
24 hours) assignment. After this time it is free and you can go online,
check in and choose your seat or wait and get it assigned at the airport.
Food on short haul has always been a little unnecessary, unless it was
breakfast (which I believe they will still offer). BA will still offer
beverages and a beer or two as well.
> And I know that classic carriers can't compete on price with the budget
> airlines in "many cases" (rather than a few), nor is �20 "much cheaper".
It is when the flight was around �70. "EZY (U2)" :o) was around �90
MC
MC
news:d9909ba850%ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk...
> In message <Bt+AympA...@perry.co.uk>
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <3mkAm.8555$CZ1....@newsfe06.ams2>, at 13:39:27 on Sun, 11
>> Oct 2009, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk" <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> >>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>> >>>airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>> >> And it many cases it can be much less.
>> >> Ian
>> >
>> >Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
>>
>> Using Heathrow is much more hassle than anything a low cost airline can
>> throw at me.
>
> T5 is actually pleasant to use, which is more than one can say about
> Luton.
> However I appreciate getting there from Nottingham is not the best
> journery
> in the world.
>
T1 is also not too bad (a little busy at times) but I have found it OK. As
is T4. Never had the privilege to use T2 but T3 is the pits. Really, the
pits.
MC
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:48:50 GMT, wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
> Williams) wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:39:27 +0100, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
>
>
> to operate an airline. Low cost, no frills, but otherwise excellent
> customer service.
>
I haven't heard anything bad about easyJet, to be fair. It's Ryanair
that's no good.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> In message <7jdqtrF...@mid.individual.net>, at 11:38:48 on Sun, 11
> Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfab...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>>> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>>
>> And it many cases it can be much less.
>
> Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
> I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
> overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
I'd just take the train.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
>
> BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
> BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>
> BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
> always cheaper and they cut too many corners. I still believe flying should
> be a comfortable form of transport, after all it can be quite stressful. It
> to pay a few quid more, if not less, for an experience that is less
> stressful, and thus a lot more enjoyable, on a full service carrier.
>
>
>
Same here. I also find getting to Heathrow a lot easier than Stansted or
Luton, for example.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Oct 11, 3:32 pm, "MC" <a...@any.any> wrote:
>
>> certainly should not be like a bus service. More often than not I only have
>> to pay a few quid more, if not less, for an experience that is less
>> stressful, and thus a lot more enjoyable, on a full service carrier.
>
>
>
> --
> Nick
I's still rather pay that, rather than give Ryanair any of my money.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> In message <4ad1ec94$0$10037$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com>, at
> 15:32:59 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, MC <a...@any.any> remarked:
>> I recently flew by:
>>
>> BA to Inverness around �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>>
>> BA to Budapest around �40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>>
>> BA to Naples �20 cheaper than EJ all in.
>
> Originating where? Heathrow perhaps. BA have pretty much abandoned
> regional airports. If BA are flying those routes for the same-ish price
> as a low-cost booked the same amount in advance, then it's good news for
> people who can get to Heathrow.
>
> But note that BA will now be charging for seat assignments, and
> reportedly have scrapped food on short-haul.
That's for well in advance, rather than the usual 24 hours.
> So becoming more like a
> budget airline.
>
I somehow doubt that, although I've heard that Air Lingus is becoming
more and more like a budget airline.
> And I know that classic carriers can't compete on price with the budget
> airlines in "many cases" (rather than a few), nor is �20 "much cheaper".
Still prefer classic airlines. At least theior cabin staff don't behave
like on the budget airlines.
Mr G
wrote:
> I live on Anglesey - getting to Liverpool/Manchester
>for easyjet and Ryanair is tedious enough, going to London so I could use
>the allegedly superior service of "normal" airlines would be ridiculous.
I think more than those two fly from Manchester. Soon, there will be
only one as Ryanair pull out (though quite a few other budget airlines
in their place).
The boundaries are getting very blurred now though, especially on
shorter flights. I went to Bilbao earlier in the year, the best
option from Manchester being SN Brussels via, errm, Brussels. It was
either an hour's journey to Manchester or trying to get to Stansted.
Low cost, so no in-flight service but bookable seats and a luggage
allowance. For a couple of flights that take less than an hour then I
don't really care.
In the US, Virgin America have an interesting price policy, where they
offer no-frills or full service on the same planes. You pays your
money, etc. I got from San Diego to San Francisco for $49 to connect
with a KLM flight to Manchester (via AMS) - overall much cheaper than
any scheduled alternative.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> In message <CniAm.42338$lI6....@newsfe04.ams2>, at 11:24:34 on Sun, 11
> Oct 2009, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk" <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> Luton Airport is the worst of any of them.
>
> In some ways it's pretty bad - but "worst" is a bit of a stretch.
>
>> No proper connection from the station to the airport terminals
>> themselves,
>
> There's a bus every ten minutes, which is better than some other
> airports (eg Bristol and East Midlands).
>
But there is no direct rail connection, which does not apply in the case
of Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City or even Southampton. And the queues
to the busses at Luton Airport Parkway can be riduculous.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:24:34 +0100, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk"
> <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>
> without a 2-hour end to end journey to Thiefrow.
>
I have no doubt that Luton is convenient for those who live nearby.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
>
> <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:CniAm.42338$lI6....@newsfe04.ams2...
> > Luton Airport is the worst of any of them. No proper connection from the
>> station to the airport terminals themselves, which are full of surley
>> staff from budget airlines.
>>
> >
>> Never fly budget airlines. Pay the premium and just go on a normal
>> airline. In many cases it doesn't work out to be much more.
>>
>
> condescending.
>
Business class is lovely, I must say.
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk" <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> You'll have to quote a few examples, because I've been flying round
>>Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
>> I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with
>>BA that came in at 26 Euros plus 56 Euro tax (~�70); not that
>>Brussels is overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
>
>I'd just take the train.
I normally take the train (I am this week...) but in this instance the
plane was much cheaper. And being later in the evening, starting from a
meeting quite close to the airport, it was the more sensible choice. I
was staying overnight in London.
--
Roland Perry
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
> "Buddenbrooks" <knights...@budweiser.com> writes:
>> Why settle for surly when for a little more you can have surly and
>> condescending.
>
>
>
I would think that on Korean Airlines, they would go out of their way to
be hospitable.
Don't know about Air Koryo, however.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
Is Dublin or Cardiff not an option?
Michael
<houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:U_rAm.26239$4Y3....@newsfe25.ams2...
Cardiff is probably more difficult to get to than London (and a lot more
difficult than NW England). N-S transport links in Wales are very poor.
Dublin would require a ferry, and then probably a taxi or a couple of
buses - in theory it could work but in practice it wouldn't be pleasant or
cheap.
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk" <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>Still prefer classic airlines. At least theior cabin staff don't behave
>like on the budget airlines.
I have no idea what you mean. I've been on five budget flights in the
last week alone. The cabin staff were impeccable.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>>> Luton Airport is the worst of any of them.
>> In some ways it's pretty bad - but "worst" is a bit of a stretch.
>>
>>> No proper connection from the station to the airport terminals
>>>themselves,
>> There's a bus every ten minutes, which is better than some other
>>airports (eg Bristol and East Midlands).
>
>But there is no direct rail connection, which does not apply in the
>case of Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City or even Southampton.
If there's no direct rail connection at East Midlands Parkway, there's
also none at Luton Airport Parkway.
>And the queues to the busses at Luton Airport Parkway can be
>riduculous.
Which is kind of where I came in: replacing the FTRs with the smaller
(well they seem smaller) Citaros.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>I have no doubt that Luton is convenient for those who live nearby.
It's also more convenient (than Heathrow or Gatwick) for people living
almost any distance north of Luton. 100 miles in my case.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Sun, 11 Oct 2009, Mr G <m...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>The boundaries are getting very blurred now though, especially on
>shorter flights. I went to Bilbao earlier in the year, the best
>option from Manchester being SN Brussels via, errm, Brussels. It was
>either an hour's journey to Manchester or trying to get to Stansted.
>Low cost, so no in-flight service but bookable seats and a luggage
>allowance.
I always thought Brussels Airlines regarded themselves as a full service
carrier. They used to do codeshares with BA (when BA still flew from
regional airports up to about a year ago), and are a member of one of
the three big FF clubs.
--
Roland Perry
Michael
"Mr G" <m...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:m1i4d59v4f5m5q2d6...@4ax.com...
I take your point, easy/Ryan were just examples. I have taken 2 stage
flights to Europe from Manchester, but never found it as quick or cheap as a
direct flight on a no-frills - assuming that one flies the route.
Charlie Hulme
[from Anglesey]
>> Is Dublin or Cardiff not an option?
>>
>
> Cardiff is probably more difficult to get to than London (and a lot more
> difficult than NW England). N-S transport links in Wales are very poor.
A twice-daily subsidised flight to Cardiff from Valley airport?
Charlie
MC
news:5YrAm.26236$4Y3....@newsfe25.ams2...
Anything over 6 hrs and it is a must for me I'm afraid. In fact anything
over 4 hrs if budget allows :o)
MC
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
To each his own.
Jeff
> On Oct 11, 2:11 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >And it many cases it can be much less.
> > Europe at least once a month for the last three or four years, and
> > I think I've only seen it once (a late evening Brussels-Heathrow with BA
> > that came in at 26 Euros plus 56 Euro tax (~£70); not that Brussels is
> > overwhelmed with Budget carriers).
>
> done it.
>
> The Opodo booking engine is one source - it has found me in the past
> very low rate LHR Wien with OS, and LGW MUC with BA. But that is
> comparing LHR/LGW like for like.
>
> Not had recourse to use Opodo recently, essentially because of EZ at
> Luton whre I live even if their fare is double the ''full'' airlines
> cheapest offer, it dramtcally saves on time and effort and rail fare/
> drive park.
>
> The only drawback is a route like LTN-VIE (see other comment) is one
> flight per day and the outbound while a reasonable ~16:00 local time
> arrival in Wien, and Wien is an excellent city for a stop, my
> destination is usually further east, and getting the 19:21 ex
> Bratislava hl.st. to Zvolen is a bit dodgy ... all right on paper,
> but only need to slight delayed arrival, missed an s-bahn / CAT, miss
> the hourly train to Bratislava [*] at 17:28 and I won't make it.
>
> [1] Yes In know there are 2 routes making 2 TPH but its not a symetric
> half hourly service and one goes to Petrzalka which is n.b.g. for a
> tight connection from hl.st i.e. if miss 17:28 above, the 18:05 to
> Petrzalka does not get me anywhere.
>
> --
> Nick
What on earth are you talking about?
Jeff
>
> >BA to Budapest around £40 cheaper that EJ all in.
>
>
>
Jet2 are cheapest. And Ryanair have stopped Liverpool Budapest. So
it's Jet2 or very expensive alternative.
Miles Bader
>>Ha! If you'd fly a Korean airline, you could have violent and insane too!
>
Er, no. It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real
experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
Koreans can be ... feisty).
-Miles
--
Christian, n. One who follows the teachings of Christ so long as they are not
inconsistent with a life of sin.
Bruce
<houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:48:50 GMT, wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>> Williams) wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:39:27 +0100, "houn...@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <houn...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Indeed, it can be less at times. Much less hassle in any event.
>>> I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all.
>>
>>
>> Taken as a whole, the EasyJet experience is a very good example of how
>> to operate an airline. Low cost, no frills, but otherwise excellent
>> customer service.
>>
>I haven't heard anything bad about easyJet, to be fair. It's Ryanair
>that's no good.
I used Ryanair several times before I first tried EasyJet. The
difference is enormous.
In future, if I can avoid Ryanair, I will do so; if I can fly EasyJet,
I will do so.
Michael
"Charlie Hulme" <in...@davenportstation.org.uk> wrote in message
news:rhsAm.14799$Rk1....@newsfe07.ams2...
think that I'll try it for connecting to other flights however - given that
separate tickets would be required the consequences the first flight in a
journey being delayed would be undesirable...
Bruce
>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>>>Ha! If you'd fly a Korean airline, you could have violent and insane too!
>>
>> What a strange remark. Are you a xenophobic?.
>
>Er, no. It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real
>experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
>Koreans can be ... feisty).
On what basis would you attempt to justify such racist remarks?
Miles Bader
>>Er, no. It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real
>>experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
>>Koreans can be ... feisty).
>
> On what basis would you attempt to justify such racist remarks?
So you disagree?
-Miles
--
Accordion, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin.
Bruce
>Bruce <docne...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>Er, no. It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real
>>>experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
>>>Koreans can be ... feisty).
>>
>> On what basis would you attempt to justify such racist remarks?
>
>So you disagree?
I disagree with your damning the whole Korean nation on the basis of
simplistic and highly unreliable racial stereotyping, yes.
Miles Bader
> I disagree with your damning the whole Korean nation on the basis of
> simplistic and highly unreliable racial stereotyping, yes.
I'm not "damning the whole Korean nation", and I'm not making any
statements based on "race" ("Korean" is not a race; in the context of
this thread, it's a culture).
I _did_ try to make a joke (whether or not the humor was any good of
course, is a separate matter), which attempted to amplify a real-life
incident (involving, yes, Korean airline employees) using a cultural
stereotype.
It isn't a particularly negative stereotype of course (I chose the word
"feisty" on purpose, because it has generally positive connotation), and
like many other stereotypes, has some basis in fact.
Here's a test: Go ask a Korean person. It's very likely they'll either
(1) laugh and say "yeah, yeah, ok, it's true", or (2) punch you in the face.
Either way, point made.
[I _actually did this_, just now, and she did (1).]
-Miles
--
Quotation, n. The act of repeating erroneously the words of another. The words
erroneously repeated.
Roland Perry
>>the plane was much cheaper. And being later in the evening, starting
>>from a meeting quite close to the airport, it was the more sensible
>>choice. I was staying overnight in London.
>Train is more door to door if going to Brussels, though, is it not?
At the Brussels end it depends on where you are heading to. The Eurostar
tips out at Brussels Midi (at the south end of the city centre). If your
destination is in the business area (a mile or so to the north) it's
almost as easy to get there using the airport train, as from Midi. My
destination on that trip was roughly equidistant from the airport or
Midi by taxi.
At the UK end, St Pancras is much more convenient for me than Heathrow
(perhaps 2.5hrs from home rather than 3.5hrs). The concept of "door to
door" rather fades at such a distance. If I were to take the plane from
my local regional airport (I rarely do as it's a full fare airline and
very expensive - �295 each way normally), then I would leave home 1.5hrs
before the flight is due to depart, and therefore 2hrs 45mins before it
lands in Brussels.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>>
>> What a strange remark. Are you a xenophobic?.
>
>Er, no. It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real
>experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
>Koreans can be ... feisty).
Not while on duty as cabin crew. And the Koreans I met when I was there
were almost overbearingly polite (to western eyes).
--
Roland Perry
Bruce
>Bruce <docne...@gmail.com> writes:
>> I disagree with your damning the whole Korean nation on the basis of
>> simplistic and highly unreliable racial stereotyping, yes.
>
>I'm not "damning the whole Korean nation", and I'm not making any
>statements based on "race" ("Korean" is not a race; in the context of
>this thread, it's a culture).
You're trying (and failing) to wriggle out of a posting that was
clearly racist.
>I _did_ try to make a joke (whether or not the humor was any good of
>course, is a separate matter), which attempted to amplify a real-life
>incident (involving, yes, Korean airline employees) using a cultural
>stereotype.
Making jokes using a cultural stereotype is racism. The fact it was
intended as a joke does not make it in any way less offensive - on the
contrary.
>It isn't a particularly negative stereotype of course (I chose the word
>"feisty" on purpose, because it has generally positive connotation), and
>like many other stereotypes, has some basis in fact.
>
>Here's a test: Go ask a Korean person. It's very likely they'll either
>(1) laugh and say "yeah, yeah, ok, it's true", or (2) punch you in the face.
>Either way, point made.
More racism. You just don't get it, do you.
Miles Bader
>>Er, no. It was a joke (no doubt a poor one), but based on real
>>experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
>>Koreans can be ... feisty).
>
> Not while on duty as cabin crew. And the Koreans I met when I was there
> were almost overbearingly polite (to western eyes).
[The experience in question involved airport staff, not cabin crew
(I imagine the standards are somewhat higher for the latter).]
I did have the interesting experience of travelling around Korea with a
Korean, and people were very nice and helpful to us -- and afterwards my
companion remarked "I've never been treated this politely in Korea
before!"
:]
-Miles
--
.Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing.
Miles Bader
> You're trying (and failing) to wriggle out of a posting that was
> clearly racist.
Bruce, you can call it what you want. That does not make it so.
-Miles
--
Discriminate, v.i. To note the particulars in which one person or thing is,
if possible, more objectionable than another.
Roland Perry
>>>experience (and if you know anything about Korea, you'd know that
>>>Koreans can be ... feisty).
>>
>> Not while on duty as cabin crew. And the Koreans I met when I was there
>> were almost overbearingly polite (to western eyes).
>
>[The experience in question involved airport staff, not cabin crew
>(I imagine the standards are somewhat higher for the latter).]
>
>I did have the interesting experience of travelling around Korea with a
>Korean, and people were very nice and helpful to us -- and afterwards my
>companion remarked "I've never been treated this politely in Korea
>before!"
You'll wear that spade out, if you aren't careful.
--
Roland Perry
Miles Bader
> You'll wear that spade out, if you aren't careful.
Do you think I'm lying?
-Miles
--
The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or
fears or wishes rather than with their minds. -- Will Durant
Bruce
>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>> You'll wear that spade out, if you aren't careful.
>
>Do you think I'm lying?
No, just digging yourself into an ever-deeper hole.
Elie
Guys, I think you're taking his words too seriously. I'm Korean and I
see some truth to what he says. I agree he exaggerated a little but
if I heard that, I'd just laugh and take it as what it is: a joke, so
just chill.
Ian F.
news:37r4d51s57du00mjd...@4ax.com...
> In future, if I can avoid Ryanair, I will do so; if I can fly EasyJet,
> I will do so.
*applause* I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair. If
their flights are the only option, I go somewhere else!
Ian
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfab...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair.
Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the
chattering campaign about them?
--
Roland Perry
Ian F.
news:oviqy9sz...@perry.co.uk...
> Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering
> campaign about them?
I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked at
by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of shit, shown no respect
whatsoever...
I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to
worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather
spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just me -
I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way.
I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair,
although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would
travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair.
That said, I know millions of people are happy being treated like shit in
order to save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that
Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.
Ian
Adrian
they were saying:
>> Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the
>> chattering campaign about them?
> I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked
> at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of shit, shown no
> respect whatsoever...
>
> I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to
> worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather
> spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just
> me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way.
>
> I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair,
> although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I
> would travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel
> Ryanair.
I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of
their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of
you in compulsory "extras" - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after
direct personal experience about ten years ago.
I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening
flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for
boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being
left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments
- for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC.
Roland Perry
>save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that
>Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.
And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not
just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :(
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Oct 2009, Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> remarked:
>I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of
>their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of
>you in compulsory "extras"
If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number
of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the
flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly
67 million people this year].
> - but I've also sworn off SleazyJet after direct personal experience
>about ten years ago.
>
>I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening
>flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for
>boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being
>left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to refreshments
>- for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am, IIRC.
That happens with full-fare airlines too. There are newish EU rules
about providing refreshment vouchers etc.
--
Roland Perry
MIG
> In message <7jg7s6F35cah...@mid.individual.net>, at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12
> Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfabgro...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>
> >I know millions of people are happy being treated like shit in order to
> >save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that
> >Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.
>
> And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not
> just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :(
> --
> Roland Perry
The thing is to resist every move by the railways to follow the
Ryanair model. Don't be fooled by the "get what you pay for"
arguments. Low price for poor service seems fine to me, but the
trickery is not, and nor is the gambling.
Currently the railway operators don't just wash their hands of their
customers and leave them stranded, no matter how little they've
paid.
"Sorry, train cancelled. Here's your AP fare back. Now find
somewhere to stay the night and get an Anytime single tomorrow. If
you like you can use it now on a train at exactly the same time as the
one that was cancelled ..."
Chris Tolley
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>> You'll wear that spade out, if you aren't careful.
>
> Do you think I'm lying?
He thinks you should stop digging.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632922.html
(40 122 at Manchester Piccadilly, 8 Jun 1985)
Adrian
were saying:
>>I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of
>>their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out
>>of you in compulsory "extras"
> If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number
> of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the
> flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly
> 67 million people this year].
That's not 67m _individuals_, is it...?
>>I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening
>>flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for
>>boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being
>>left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to
>>refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am,
>>IIRC.
> That happens with full-fare airlines too.
The mechanical problems do, yes. They're unavoidable.
The _communication_ problems? No. Not IME.
rail
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <7jg8hsF...@mid.individual.net>, at 08:43:40 on Mon, 12
> Oct 2009, Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> remarked:
> >I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of
> >their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out of
> >you in compulsory "extras"
>
> If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number
> of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the
> flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly
> 67 million people this year].
I would never voluntarily fly Ryanair but the office still books me to fly
with them on occasion.
--
Graeme Wall
This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
Recliner
news:4ad22bf9$0$10041$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com
> "rail" <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d9909ba850%ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk...
>>>
>>> Using Heathrow is much more hassle than anything a low cost airline
>>> can throw at me.
>>
>> T5 is actually pleasant to use, which is more than one can say about
>> Luton.
>> However I appreciate getting there from Nottingham is not the best
>> journery in the world.
>>
>
>
> T1 is also not too bad (a little busy at times) but I have found it
> OK. As is T4. Never had the privilege to use T2 but T3 is the pits.
> Really, the pits.
You probably won't have an opportunity to use T2, as it will be
demolished shortly. But it had the shortest walks of any LHR terminal,
as it's the smallest (and most claustrophobic). It was shabby and
run-down towards the end, and few will be sad to see it gone.
The new T1 gates can have some very long walks, more than any other LHR
terminal, and it's destined to be a building site for the next few
years. T3 has been greatly improved over the last few years, but still
suffers from long immigration queues at busy times, even in the EU
lines. The T4 extension gates (eg, 25) are a very long walk, almost as
much as anything in T1 or T3.
But if travelling by Tube or Heathrow Express, T5 is by far the best LHR
terminal (last week, it took me just ten minutes from the Piccadilly
Line train, up to departures, through security, to my armchair in the BA
north lounge). It also has shorter walks airside than the older large
terminals.
Recliner
> In message
> <f8b833fb-1845-460e...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, at
> 07:39:54 on Sun, 11 Oct 2009, D7666 <d7...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>>> I regularly fly easyJet and it isn't hassle at all.
>>
>> So do I but they've just cut the most useful route for me - Luton -
>> Wien.
>>
>> I'm using it again next week, buts its axed in their November
>> changes, and its rported not just a winter t.t. cut, its permanent.
>
> Ditto East Midlands-Geneva :(
>
> BmiBaby fly that route, but only at weekends, and at entirely the
> wrong times of day. So I'll be "forced" to use Luton again, I suppose.
I wonder how long bmibaby will remain in existence? I assume Lufthansa
will sell it off, give it away or shut it down at the earliest possible
opportunity.
Roland Perry
>>>I've never flown Ryanair - nor do I ever intend to, mainly because of
>>>their attitude to quoting a cheap fare then chiselling every penny out
>>>of you in compulsory "extras"
>
>> If you add together the number of people swearing this, plus the number
>> of people who *do* actually fly, I wonder if it exceeds 100% of the
>> flying population? [Ryanair are Europe's biggest carrier, and will fly
>> 67 million people this year].
>
>That's not 67m _individuals_, is it...?
No, but what's the average number of flights people make with them per
year?
>>>I was meant to be flying back from Schiphol to Luton, on a late evening
>>>flight. The plane had a technical problem, so wasn't available for
>>>boarding. It happens. What SHOULDN'T happen is all the passengers being
>>>left at the gate with no staff, no information, no access to
>>>refreshments - for SIX HOURS. We finally got to Luton at about 3am,
>>>IIRC.
>
>> That happens with full-fare airlines too.
>
>The mechanical problems do, yes. They're unavoidable.
>The _communication_ problems? No. Not IME.
Sadly, the communications problems often exist, whatever the airline.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Recliner <recline...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> BmiBaby fly that route, but only at weekends, and at entirely the
>> wrong times of day. So I'll be "forced" to use Luton again, I suppose.
>
>I wonder how long bmibaby will remain in existence?
They are currently adding planes and routes at East Midlands.
>I assume Lufthansa will sell it off, give it away or shut it down at
>the earliest possible opportunity.
They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO
"early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<5c1faaef-968b-46dd...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, at
02:04:03 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, MIG <googl...@doreenbird.co.uk>
remarked:
>On 12 Oct, 09:50, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <7jg7s6F35cah...@mid.individual.net>, at 09:32:02 on Mon, 12
>> Oct 2009, Ian F. <wowfabgro...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>
>> >I know millions of people are happy being treated like shit in order to
>> >save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad that
>> >Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.
>>
>> And to some extent trains and buses serve a similar purpose. It's not
>> just Maggie who thinks public transport is for losers :(
>
>Ryanair model. Don't be fooled by the "get what you pay for"
>arguments. Low price for poor service seems fine to me, but the
>trickery is not, and nor is the gambling.
The so-called "simplified" fare system, plus opaque routing
restrictions, means that train fares are at least as bad.
>Currently the railway operators don't just wash their hands of their
>customers and leave them stranded, no matter how little they've
>paid.
Actually, they do. You just tune out the reports.
>"Sorry, train cancelled. Here's your AP fare back. Now find
>somewhere to stay the night and get an Anytime single tomorrow. If
>you like you can use it now on a train at exactly the same time as the
>one that was cancelled ..."
Ah, that's a common one of the "chattering criticisms". But does it
actually happen any more? The closest is probably "You need to catch the
next available flight, which is tomorrow" (or possibly later, but that's
just a timetable thing). A colleague flying Business Class on United got
bumped Saturday (flight cancelled) and had to wait 24hrs for the next
flight.
--
Roland Perry