More from the expert (was: Re: New thread: ...)

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tran...@aol.com

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Dec 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/28/96
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In article <19961228041...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
judit...@aol.com says...
>John wrote:
>>I have heard many oppinions on the subject. Here are just a few:
>>1. All TVs should come out completely, by publically crossdressing. No
>>exceptions. By not coming out they are encouraging societies
>>prejudices against us.
>
> A very strong argument for outing all TSs, TVs, lesbians, and gays.

I have not been fully following this argument to closely but I think this
John should try going out experiencing the terror of ever being found out
as a CD by your family and friends. As a teenager CD I would not DARE to
come out to anyone who wasn't a fellow *deviant* Even then I would be
hesitent. A year or two ago, two gay guys I knew decided to come out
openly, while still at school. They got slaughtered. They lost every one
of thier friends and were ostrachised from any and all groups.
Unfortunately they decided to work their revenge on the school community
by outing all the people they suspected of being gay. I was one of them,
but luckily no-one believed them, as I was going through a particularly
macho phase then.(Just goes to show that fellow deviants can spot one
another) However, a number of people I know were permenantly branded with
the "closet gay" stigma for the rest of their school daysm, and have
suffered for it.
It just goes to show that outing is a darkly destructive practice that
is, IMHO, worse than some of the biggotry that comes from the rest of the
non-gay population.
See ya!
Kira

-------------------------------------------------------
A famous philosopher once said:
"Bastards!" - Edward Elizabeth Hitler
tran...@aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------

Paha nalle

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Dec 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/29/96
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tran...@aol.com wrote:

> I have not been fully following this argument to closely but I think this
> John should try going out experiencing the terror of ever being found out
> as a CD by your family and friends.

No kidding.

> As a teenager CD I would not DARE to
> come out to anyone who wasn't a fellow *deviant* Even then I would be
> hesitent.

Sure enough! I came out when still in school! Not only did it lead to
constant fighting, interrogations by the school board and shrinks, but
also I was closed to a mental facility until they found out that I was
normal. I got regularly beaten, every
day, sometimes the situation was life-threatening to me. The school
board called me "pervert" and "future rapist" and "asocial" and although
I excelled in my class, I never received any grants or public
recognition. Actually I had to seek a counselor when this abuse was so
bad. I still suffer from esteem problems and self-disgust because of
that
continued abuse.

> A year or two ago, two gay guys I knew decided to come out
> openly, while still at school. They got slaughtered. They lost every one
> of thier friends and were ostrachised from any and all groups.

I'm sorry but being gay is easy, compared to being tranny.



> However, a number of people I know were permenantly branded with
> the "closet gay" stigma for the rest of their school daysm, and have
> suffered for it.

I have worn that gay label through my whole life. Gay or pervert. I'm
27 and my sexual
life is over. I feel guilty because of my sexual feelings being judged
so early. I do
not have any sexual life. With me sex equates with guilt and self-hate.

> It just goes to show that outing is a darkly destructive practice that
> is, IMHO, worse than some of the biggotry that comes from the rest of the
> non-gay population.

Forced outing, yes. But you can't live closeted either. Outing, when
done correctly, is better than being closeted. I was closeted for 15
years and just about killed myself. Better out than dead.
--
*** http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3573 ***
Use this form to email me: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3573/fback.htm
Spammers - let's get 'em!

GoSpangs

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Dec 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/30/96
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A person with cusswords in their headers wrote:
<<I came out when still in school!>> [snipped] << I got regularly beaten,

every day, sometimes the situation was life-threatening to me. The
school board called me "pervert" and "future rapist" and "asocial" and
although I excelled in my class, I never received any grants or public
recognition. I still suffer from esteem problems and self-disgust because
of that continued abuse.>>

I was pegged as a lesbian and outed while at Hastings College. It was
only sort of a problem for me, but turned into a huge a problem for the
school (Hastings is a small private presbyterian college in almost rural
Hastings, Nebraska). Soon after, Jennifer MacDonald, whom I thought was a
friend, decided that queers didn't belong at Hasting College and tried to
get me thrown out.

Does getting good grades and really performing in your school make a
difference? No. Jenny first tried to have me thrown out on drug
allegations, but failed because the cops believed me. Then she made up
something nastier.. she reported to the police and the Deans' Office that
I hade sexually assaulted her. Because I was an ugly genetic girl, I never
got asked out. I never had any dates in college, so I couldn't prove I was
interested in boys. Thus, the accusation stuck. None of the good things I
did previously had any bearing.. not even the fact that I was a rape
educator, have been assaulted, know how awful being violated is, and would
*NEVER* touch anyone against their will.

This started to happen right before I was finished with my degree. I
almost got expelled and almost lost my degree because of it. All of my
friends turned tail overnight and I spent the rest of that semester being
treated like a leper. No one, who previously sang my praises, had anything
nice to say about me and I lost two of my scholarships. Because nothing
could be proven, the school could not expel me, but did try to bar me from
graduating (not just the walk, but the papers, too). I threatened them
with a discrimination lawsuit and media exposure, and got my way, but was
thoroughly humiliated at graduation. Even worse, the school released my
school address & phone number to anyone who wanted it.. Jenny's friends,
community reformatory church groups, anti-gay groups, aspiring hitler
youth.. It was not a good year.

<<I have worn that gay label through my whole life. Gay or pervert. I'm
27 and my sexual life is over. I feel guilty because of my sexual
feelings being judged
so early. I do not have any sexual life. With me sex equates with guilt
and self-hate. >>

I've been discriminated against and mistreated for most of mine
because I was essentially a 'man in a dress' (not TV/TS, but a man being
forced to be a woman), in a world which doesn't appreciate people who look
like women (barely, in my case) and find femininity nauseating. The
prevailing attitudes that I've dealt with are something like: either
you're a 'lady' or you deserve to be beaten, harassed, raped, run-off,
etc.. I'm 25 and I've only had 'transsexuality' as a working definition
for myself for the past eight or nine months. I've been given the
'WhattheHelliswrongwithyou,' the, 'WhotheHelldoyouthinkyouare,' and,
'Whycan'tyougrowupandactlikealady' lectures my entire life, but didn't
have the term to answer them with. I always thought it was some dumb thing
people expect after they tell you to be yourself.

I can't buy into this whole, 'self hate', and, 'I'm a pervert' thing,
though. I'm a transsexual. Currently, I lack a sexlife because my libido
died. I'm not ashamed of my transsexuality, but I've never had a good
experience with sex as a girl (either on the forced or consentual
receiving end) and I'm absolutely repulsed with the idea of being
penetrated vaginally, now. That probably isn't going to change until I'm
breastless, sterilized, de-uterized, and that region is surgically sealed
off.

I'm attracted to men, and being a neutrois/man, that makes me gay.
But so what? I lived up to my lesbian reputation and tried it with a girl,
once (well, we tried it a great deal more than just once). I'm not ashamed
of that. What I'm ashamed of is not fighting as much as I should have. I
should've stood up every f**king time. Even if I wasn't trans, I still had
the right to act any way I chose and no one had any business telling me
otherwise. I'm ashamed because I didn't go out for football. I'm ashamed
because I didn't go to the prom in a tuxedo. I'm ashamed because I didn't
know I was genderqueer, spent puberty being mistreated for being
different, and slamming gays and lesbians to feel better. I can't
apologize for hurting those people.. that's what shames me the most.

I learned something from what I've been through. I learned that there
are absolutely no brownie points for good behavior. It doesn't matter how
hard you try, there's always something people will penalize you for. Alot
of times, I'd attempt suicide after going all out and failing. Of course,
I failed! If you put all of your energy into impressing other people, or
making something 'right;' you're doomed to fail. Baby, spend some of that
energy on yourself. F**k your parents! F**k society! F**k the world!

Do it for you, or die.. I'm serious. Just end it now, because you'll
never be happy until you love yourself, recognize what makes you happy,
allow yourself to be happy, and let other people know that you're not
ashamed of who you are. That doesn't necessarily mean coming out, tomorrow
morning. What it means is saying, "Okay, this is what and who I am.
Whether or not I want to do anything about it isn't important, right now.
I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Until then, I'm holding my head
high and I'm done apologizing. *I* am going to be my top priority. *I* am
going to be a little haughty. *I* am going to make mistakes. *I* am going
to learn from them, and I am going to define *me* for myself. That's
that."

Do I sound like a shrink? I'm not. I'm a GenderPunk. I am taking it
to the Nth because I'm disgusted with the way society has rigidly split
gender definitions for men and women. I'm sick of the majority telling us
that we have to be ourselves, but only within certain parameters. It's
bulls**t and I intend to keep highlighting that. You BE yourself and make
decisions for yourself.. that's intelligent. Everybody else can go to
Hell.

-Auden

_______________________________________________________
"To question my behavior is to deny your own." -Holly A. Burnham
*`*`* Out Proud = Out Loud *`*`*
Gender Punk. Gender Anarchy. Gender Terrorism.
Neutrois Revolution! GoSp...@aol.com

cheri...@aol.com

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
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In article <19961230052...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
gosp...@aol.com (GoSpangs) writes:

>because you'll
>never be happy until you love yourself, recognize what makes you happy,
>allow yourself to be happy, and let other people know that you're not
>ashamed of who you are.

This is it in a nutshell! Great post!

Cherilyn

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