*** To what end ??
Karen Patrick
An interesting twist...
I received a call today from the Editor which I do assignments
for here in Ottawa. He was letting me know that "Laura Masters" had
called him today (April 15/96) stating she is SUING me and that I
was lying about her, etc, etc on the Internet. (I have never
submitted a story about this person, anywhere.)
The issues which we discuss on the transgendered newsgroups,
of course, have nothing to do with where I work. But, Laura Masters
deemed it fit, to proactively attempt to interfere with my
employment. I work in journalism and have for sometime, so such
threatening kinds of calls are not alien and most editors are quite
capable of handling such matters.
She also accused the magazine of refusing to do a story on her
sometime ago (a conversation which evidently never took place, as
only the editor can approve such things.)
WHY??
This truly outlines, the depths to which some "activists" will
stoop to bully their message through. I am "out" at work and I work
in a field in which controversy can be a daily occurrence, so I am
reasonably insulated. However, others are very vulnerable and could
not withstand such interference. (Laura is *also* the person who
proudly boasted online of sicking the health inspectors on
Toronto's crossdessers mecca, the Wildside, resulting in the
closure of their bed and breakfast -- that evidently, over a
disagreement of philosophies?)
Laura, apparently makes routine, the tactic of "vendetta
accusation" of anyone who questions or disagrees with her personal
viewpoints -- and is quite willing, as one can see, to take it to
the absolute extreme, or threaten it. (EG: As Gianna Isreal
recently posted, Laura complained to her system admin because Laura
disagreed with something said.)
**** These are extremist tactics without justification ****
*** This is FAR beyond the TS vs TG and who is better
(and who CARES!) back and forth postings ***
*** This is FAR beyond, you say this is FACT..then PROVE IT ***
Based on Laura's claims of "working with" the Canadian Human
Rights Commission, I questioned her to offer proof of her claims.
(She is the one who is making the claims afterall). She would only
angrily tell me (& others) to call them, usually followed with a
personal insult (GFY, and the like, along with a long diatribe of
personal, law interpretations).
So I did call finally...the first (using the name SHE
supplied) told me he had "nothing to do with trans issues", that
was early this year. A more recent call, after still failing to see
any offering of proof from Laura other than personal
interpretations of the charter of rights (and following a post she
made accusing me of something and stating she was "working with"
the human rights commission, writing policy) resulted in the media
relations dept stating unequivocally Laura is not in any way
officially connected with them. (Not my words..theirs)
Now because of this phone call to my editor, I made a THIRD
attempt and called the latest supplied contact, who verifies only
that Laura Masters has made representations to them, "the same as
many other" groups and individuals.
That, is HARDLY "working with" the Commission in the context
in which Laura represents herself. (EG: We *must* go through her.
And in a recent post, she chastised me for repeating a Commission
quote, that the "best Canadian human rights representative is the
Canadian Human Rights Commission.")
That I should HAVE to go so far as to make such calls on my
own is absurd! An activist can advance ideas as hypothesis, but
FACTS must have verifiable sources, which one should be able to
easily supply -- without anger!
Laura's response, instead??
...to call a place where I work in an obvious attempt to
inflict PERSONAL harm. (Such a call is not made to debate facts or
concepts, it is proactive interference with a person's
employment... I have only stated my career to provide backgrounder
to those who asked...who am I? A legitimate question, I felt.)
So I ask? Who is this person who claims to represent the better
interests of trans-persons? That one may not question or ask for
verification of claims? That if one does, Laura will take it the
extreme of bully tactics and call your employer?
What kind of person are we dealing with?
Were I not in the unique position in which I am currently, I would
*not* have openly questioned Laura out of fear of this very kind of
thing. In this newsgroup, we have seen "outings" of people's real
names. And Laura recently posted a persons "email thread" to make
some kind of point about so-called "stealth" --- not privately mind
you...out where anyone could see it. (So what WAS that point... To
hog the bandwidth through intimidation?)
None of this of course does anything to nullify Laura Masters
bigoted and denigrating broad brush comments regarding transsexuals
and sex reassignment surgery, accusing such of "self mutilation"
and "unnaturalness".
This whole scenario has become unrealistic!
Is this the kind of representation we wish to have with
government institutions and bodies? That any dissent, that any
questioning is branded as "enemies" ???
That only the LOUDEST may speak? That the loudest are to be
allowed to resort to extremist tactics against "our own" without
recourse?
That ONLY those few of us who are "out" may speak openly -- on
the Internet? That the rest are to do so, only at risk of public
outing by their "own" ??
There is a very sinister under current to all of this. That a
few shall speak for all, without consultation, without balance, and
only with "force." It is very bad precedence for this "community"
and I wonder what others think?
For those who are sick of this, I agree wholeheartedly, so am
I? But who wishes to see pages of posts denigrating who you are?
That is *not* debate, it's debacle... and it's never ending in it's
circularity. It is not good enough to simply say, "let's get
along." It's impossible when someone is tossing a torch onto your
existence by insisting *you* must be like them... or be ridiculed.
(We get enough of that already from the fundamentalist right, our
employers in some cases, and in others..our own families!)
And "togetherness" is impossible, when one "activist" threatens
lawsuits against those who question their claims!
And what does this say to you? I wonder.
Karen Patrick
(For any who wish to ask, yes..I remain, unharmed.)
and we wonder why so many remain silent?
Gianna Israel
: Laura, apparently makes routine, the tactic of "vendetta
: accusation" of anyone who questions or disagrees with her personal
: viewpoints -- and is quite willing, as one can see, to take it to
: the absolute extreme, or threaten it. (EG: As Gianna Isreal
: recently posted, Laura complained to her system admin because Laura
: disagreed with something said.)
:
: **** These are extremist tactics without justification ****
Hello All:
To clarify, Ms. Masters carbon-copied a note of her disatisfaction with
the length of my signature line to my system administrators. She did this
before ever bringing up her concerns with me privately.
Since I have received no other complaints about my signature or postings,
I see no reason to be frightened by her antics. Alt.Transgender and Soc.
Support.Transgendered are open to all transgender persons, not just those
who want to live by other's ideologies and bullying.
Contacting another Usenet member's employer during the course of a
disagreement is totally innappropriate. As well, contacting a person's
system administrator without first expressing disagreement over an issue
to the person directly is totally innappropriate. A person who does these
types of things is not looking to resolve conflicts or point out
discrepancies, they are looking to control others with intimidation.
Is such behavior worth recognition? When a person feels justified in
crossing privacy boundaries, fails to use decorum, and cannot see their
behavior is victimizing... then such a person certainly isn't worth my
time. I know convicted felons and hardcore ghetto rats with a better
sense of propriety.
Karen, I'd advise you not to think about "our special friend" any further.
Don't bother answering her posts, and ignore any follow-ups she posts
after yours. -GIANNA
--
>>>> Ask for a "Services & Resources Overview" packet <<<<
G I A N N A E. I S R A E L - Gender Specializing Counselor
Principal Author: Recommended Guidelines for Transgender Care
P.O. Box 424447 San Francisco, CA 94142 / (415) 558-8058
Internet / Gia...@wco.com
P R O V I D I N G -Individual & Relationship Counseling,
Evaluations & Referrals, Pre-arranged Telephone Consultation to
Individuals & Professionals Nationwide. Flexible rates/Confidential.
Karen Patrick
To the person offering me good advice..you're right..
I won't respond to mischaracterizations of fact and
misrepresentations of conversations. People learn on their
own as they say.
Thanks and take care, I'll stick around and ignore the rubbish. :)
Karen Patrick
Brandon Matheson
> WRONG... Karen Patrick works for one of our nation's most influential Gay
> Community newspapers, Capital Xtra (a division of Pink Triangle Press).
> This newspaper frequently covers transgender issues and events. My concern,
> which was answered adequately, was that Ms Patrick with her obvious bias
> against transgenderists was not being assigned to cover trans community
> events.
> After I presented a bit of background information about her actions
> in my regard, her editor assured me that he would not assign her to any
> trans community events, and would treat any unsolicited articles she
> presented as a conflict of interest. We both agreed that she should be
> able to publish op-ed pieces, and that her freedom of speech was as
> important as my own.
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
-----------------
The information contained in the second paragraph of this posting is a
gross misrepresentation of the conversation that took place between Laura
Masters and myself, the editor of Capital Xtra, shortly before 11am, on
Mon, Apr 15--to the point of mistruth.
There were no decisions or agreements made during that conversation, as a
result of information put forward by Laura Masters.
Nor was there any discussion of or agreement that unsolicited articles
submitted by Karen Patrick would be treated as a 'conflict of interest.'
A suitable observation at this point is that while discussion groups such
as this one are an optimum medium for discussion and debate, those who are
in the habit of flaming and attributing ficticious statements to third
parties (in this case the 'editor' of Capital Xtra, and while unnamed is
unquestionably identifiable as there is only one editor) in their
published works, would be wise to familiarize themselve with libel law and
the possible consequences of statements that may defame a person's
professional standings (in this case Karen Patrick)... before it's too late.
I leave it to Ms Masters as to how she will chose to remedy this
situation. I, however, will make no further comment on this issue, other than
to say that it will be monitored and appropriate action taken, if required.
Brandon Matheson
Editor & Publisher
Capital Xtra
303-177 Nepean St
Ottawa ON
K2P 0B4
Dallas Denny
>From: ao...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Brandon Matheson)
>Subject: Re: *** To what end ??
>Date: 18 Apr 1996 21:50:17 GMT
>Laura Masters (lmas...@vaxxine.com) writes:
>> WRONG... Karen Patrick works for one of our nation's most influential Gay
>> Community newspapers, Capital Xtra (a division of Pink Triangle Press).
>> This newspaper frequently covers transgender issues and events. My concern,
>> which was answered adequately, was that Ms Patrick with her obvious bias
>> against transgenderists was not being assigned to cover trans community
>> events.
I would just like to say that I in my opinion Laura Masters went 'way beyond
the grounds of propriety by contacting Karen Patrick's employer.
Much of what is said in this forum consists of extremist statements which
would never ben said in face-to-face correspondence, or via surface mail. I
know I have argued strongly for things I didn't particularly personally
believe-- some of you may remember when JenniSuzan and I were arguing about
abortion. When such postings are brought into our real life, and especially
when done so with what I daresay is questionable intent, I believe some sort
of sanction is needed.
Consequently, until I am convinced that she understands how inappropriate her
behavior has been, and is unlikely to engage in such behavior in the future, I
will no longer correspond with Ms. Masters.
Dallas Denny
Brandon Matheson
From lmas...@alpha.vaxxine.com Thu Apr 18 22:13:51 1996
Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (lmas...@alpha.vaxxine.com [198.53.148.5]) by freenet.carleton.ca (8.6.12/8.6.4) with SMTP id WAA19677 for <ao...@freenet.carleton.ca>; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:13:49 -0400
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id AA24619; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:13:59 -0400
From: lmas...@vaxxine.com (Laura Masters)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: *** To what end ??
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:03:21 -0400
Organization: TransEqual, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Message-Id: <pRvdxoNb...@vaxxine.com>
References: <4kv7ha$s...@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4l0vtj$g...@news.wco.com>
<yzVdxoNb...@vaxxine.com> <4l6dep$3...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
To: ao...@freenet.carleton.ca
Lines: 11
In alt.transgendered, ao...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Brandon Matheson) wrote:
->I leave it to Ms Masters as to how she will chose to remedy this
->situation. I, however, will make no further comment on this issue, other than
->to say that it will be monitored and appropriate action taken, if required.
I have a standard three word reply to threats... "Go Fuck Yourself!"
--
Laura Masters | When the rights of one person are reduced the
| rights of all people are threatened ... JFK.
Joan Tine
> Laura Masters (lmas...@vaxxine.com) writes:
> > WRONG... Karen Patrick works for one of our nation's most influential Gay
> > Community newspapers, Capital Xtra (a division of Pink Triangle Press).
> > This newspaper frequently covers transgender issues and events. My concern,
> > which was answered adequately, was that Ms Patrick with her obvious bias
> > against transgenderists was not being assigned to cover trans community
> > events.
> > After I presented a bit of background information about her actions
> > in my regard, her editor assured me that he would not assign her to any
> > trans community events, and would treat any unsolicited articles she
> > presented as a conflict of interest. We both agreed that she should be
> > able to publish op-ed pieces, and that her freedom of speech was as
> > important as my own.
> WITHOUT PREJUDICE
> -----------------
> The information contained in the second paragraph of this posting is
> a gross misrepresentation of the conversation that took place
> between Laura Masters and myself, the editor of Capital Xtra,
> shortly before 11am, on Mon, Apr 15--to the point of mistruth.
> unquestionably identifiable as there is only one editor) in their
> published works, would be wise to familiarize themselve with libel
> law and the possible consequences of statements that may defame a
> person's professional standings (in this case Karen
> Patrick)... before it's too late.
> I leave it to Ms Masters as to how she will chose to remedy this
> situation. I, however, will make no further comment on this issue,
> other than to say that it will be monitored and appropriate action
> taken, if required.
> Brandon Matheson
> Editor & Publisher
> Capital Xtra
> 303-177 Nepean St
> Ottawa ON
> K2P 0B4
Brandon,
Now I feel Amused on a Saturday Morning, as I sit and assimilate a
bearclaw and my second cuppa, and watch one of the Basic Truths of my
childhood as it seems to have worked itself out in reality: give some
people enough rope and they'll surely hang themselves with it.
For some time it's been obvious to me that the issue isn't really
Laura's arguments' structures, validity, or the truth of the
arguments' premeses. Rather, the problem is Laura's own mental
health. Another basic truth: just because gender dysphoria isn't a
mental illness, it's no guarantee of sanity, either. Laura has
previously sent me wildly overboard email accusing me of 'trashing her
life' in messages which were only tangentially connected with her, the
net result being to make an adversary of someone who preferred,
generally, not to notice her. This lack of notice by the way, is the
fundamental crime you can commit against her, and will reliably bring
her efforts your way.
The interesting thing is how _important_ this forum seems to be to
her, and the amount of time and effort she wastes here. Were it not
canonically hackneyed to say it, the words "get a life" would suggest
themselves. But having always been one of those motherly unfortunates
who seem to have a big sign "Welcome Nutcases!" which is visible
_only_ to the nuts, I've always seemed to have a nose for them, and by
all the signs and signals, Laura is a loon. Like some such, she seeks
to advance her status from that of harmless nut to Formidible
Protivnik...but fails. She's not a danger, she's not an enemy, and
she's not even in the league of those tiresome souls who hang around
the courts creating weird disturbances, then get ejected by the
baliffs. She's just desperately seeking attention.
I'd be happier if she _was_ some kind of benefactor, and got
respectful audiences when she offered an opinion. Given the amount of
time she's put into the process, the only thing which prevents this
is, yes, her neuroses and the faulty presentation of self which
results from them. But she is one of those unfortunates who
infallably adopt the technique which is most reliably self-defeating.
This perpetuates her cycle of frustration-reaction-failure-frustration.
But (again speaking as someone with some experience of the loony)
suing her will be an exercise in futility: these people never have a
pot to pee in, and are invariably judgement-proof for that reason.
The mad have always been with us. In modern times, we manage the
violent and delusional with drugs, and their traditional position in
society is now occupied with monomanical motormouths who are
impervious to reason, but are (you knew it was coming:) Mostly
Harmless. You are giving her a cruel gift: by noticing her, you
encourage her to redouble her efforts in her own disservice. Axiom:
ignore fools, anything else just encourages them.
Sooner or later she'll either get better (unlikely) or open a vein by
way of confirming her own martyr status. The pity is, that other than
the statutory tragedyofthelossofaprecioushumanlife, the act will have
little significance, other than that of putting a period to a life of
frustration, reaction, and futile effort to win respect.
Suing her will only provide a soapbox to someone who desperately seeks
to "represent the community" but who would be the worst choice for the
role. Some problems are best handled with guns and guards, lawyers
and process servers, but others are best managed with simple fences or
by turning up the Walkman. If you drag her into court, you're only
going to produce one more judge who thinks we're _all_ fools.
Joan
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
the Right Disreputable, Lady Wombat
Priscilla Asagiri Aerobic Fashions in Fiberglass
The Anna Madrigal Endowment for Pathological Forensics, 1967