Megatron as a tank... I don't like it

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

I just don't. Even when the toys are great (Combiner Wars, Siege), it just doesn't fit the character we know and love from G1.

Aside from being a gun, here are the main qualities of his alt-mode:
- Wasn't used for travel -- Megatron flew everywhere in robot mode.
- Wasn't used for disguise -- It was a terrible disguise. People kept picking up Soundwave in tape player mode, but they were never willing to go with a construction worker finding a gun on the ground and keeping it
- Was distinctive on Earth -- no other cartoon Decepticons had a similar mode on Earth.
- Wasn't able to be used as a weapon without someone else's help -- this was just weird, but it is there.

As much as I dislike the Movieverse*, I think they got it right giving Megatron a Cybertronian space ship mode in the first film. And, it works well in TF:Prime.

It doesn't match all the qualities I list above:
- it does get used for travel, but at least it's not ground based and just replaces flying in robot mode (weak match)
- it's not a disguise at all (basically a match)
- it's distinctive on Earth (match)
- cannot be used as a weapon (sad)

I think I just can't see Megatron rolling around on the ground like a Stunticon, or a disabled Blitzwing. Decepticons with vehicle modes fly, and while there are a few exceptions, Megatron shouldn't be one.

*: I have a complicated relationship with the Movieverse. It's so wrong, and so bad that it can be enjoyable.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 8:12:55 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> I just don't. Even when the toys are great (Combiner Wars, Siege), it just
> doesn't fit the character we know and love from G1.

Megatron HATED his Earth mode. He wasn't as obvious about it as, say, Snarl was about his stegosaurus mode, but a drunken Megatron from "Microbots" spent some time grousing about "ugly Earth disguises."

So, there's that.

> I think I just can't see Megatron rolling around on the ground like a
> Stunticon, or a disabled Blitzwing. Decepticons with vehicle modes fly, and
> while there are a few exceptions, Megatron shouldn't be one.

A tank is a weaponized vehicle. It's basically a big gun with treads. And, also, it's not too different from Galvatron (who was also a weapon on treads, though I don't think we ever actually saw him rolling around in the cartoon).

Also, Megatron drove a tank during his Action Master days. Optimus Prime drove a truck. So there was a precedent for tank Megatron even before Generation 2.

I wonder, in this new day and age of "submarine" Sixshots (read: "upside-down gun") and "spaceship" Shockwaves (pronounced "another upside-down gun"), I wonder if we'll eventually get a Megatron toy some day whose transformation just happens to look vaguely gun-shaped if you hold it upside-down. Hasbro's getting a little more brazen in this regard.

> No other cartoon Decepticons had a similar mode on Earth.

You had to use a lot of qualifiers to get that to work! We know that Shockwave turned into a gun, so even though he didn't accompany Megatron to Earth, it's clear Megatron wasn't completely unique. Action Master Treadshot also quite obviously turned into a revolver or something before he partook of the Nucleon, so that's at least three Decepticon guns. Sixshot brings it up to four.


Zob (five if you count Browning)

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

Megatron as a jet was the worst. Going back to gladiator times, Megatron is Strength, Firepower, and Dexterity. Jets are speed and agility. Megatron's mass the only air vehicle he should ever be is a bomber, like Lugnut,

The tank is power, and strength, to match his form. The tank is literally a gun on wheels. It maintains his destructive power. Megatron always relied on other Decepticons in the original cartoon, even though he would never admit to needing that help. A tank gives him the independence to use his gun mode on his own. A jet just doesn't fit the right firepower on board.

His 2007 jet mode is quite literally the saddest form I've ever seen any iteration of any character named Megatron in, and yes know there was a Megatron shoe, a soda can dragon, a bear and a cell phone.

ROTF tank mainly fails a the robot mode, because it's still using 2007's robot, and didn't have a big iconic cannon or 2 real arms, but it's still an upgrade as it is winning at not being a jet.

[Travoltron]

On 12/12/2018 10:44 AM, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:

> The tank is literally a gun on wheels.

I have to agree with this. I'd prefer him to be a real-world tank than
an orange-tipped Nerf gun like in Classics.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 10:44:39 AM UTC-8, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 9:12:55 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> > I just don't. Even when the toys are great (Combiner Wars, Siege), it just doesn't fit the character we know and love from G1.
> >
> > Aside from being a gun, here are the main qualities of his alt-mode:
> > - Wasn't used for travel -- Megatron flew everywhere in robot mode.
> > - Wasn't used for disguise -- It was a terrible disguise. People kept picking up Soundwave in tape player mode, but they were never willing to go with a construction worker finding a gun on the ground and keeping it
> > - Was distinctive on Earth -- no other cartoon Decepticons had a similar mode on Earth.
> > - Wasn't able to be used as a weapon without someone else's help -- this was just weird, but it is there.
> >
> > As much as I dislike the Movieverse*, I think they got it right giving Megatron a Cybertronian space ship mode in the first film. And, it works well in TF:Prime.
> >
> > It doesn't match all the qualities I list above:
> > - it does get used for travel, but at least it's not ground based and just replaces flying in robot mode (weak match)
> > - it's not a disguise at all (basically a match)
> > - it's distinctive on Earth (match)
> > - cannot be used as a weapon (sad)
> >
> > I think I just can't see Megatron rolling around on the ground like a Stunticon, or a disabled Blitzwing. Decepticons with vehicle modes fly, and while there are a few exceptions, Megatron shouldn't be one.
> >
> > *: I have a complicated relationship with the Movieverse. It's so wrong, and so bad that it can be enjoyable.
>
> Megatron as a jet was the worst. Going back to gladiator times, Megatron is Strength, Firepower, and Dexterity. Jets are speed and agility. Megatron's mass the only air vehicle he should ever be is a bomber, like Lugnut,

This is my favorite of the jet modes, from TF:Prime
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(WFC)/toys#Prime:_First_Edition

TF:Animated had another variant or two as basically a flying cannon, and those are also fine.

The Last Knight had an entirely different, great take on the form. And, most of these would be better with a larger cannon.

A bomber would be good, except a bomber is actually a useful disguise. As much as a fighter is. There are several places in the US where people would not be terrified of a bomber flying overhead.

> The tank is power, and strength, to match his form. The tank is literally a gun on wheels. It maintains his destructive power. Megatron always relied on other Decepticons in the original cartoon, even though he would never admit to needing that help. A tank gives him the independence to use his gun mode on his own. A jet just doesn't fit the right firepower on board.

I can see that, but I would still counter that Megatron should not be stuck on the ground like a common Autobot. That's just as wrong.

I think the ideal alt-mode would be some kind of flying cannon, like WFC Shockwave.

> His 2007 jet mode is quite literally the saddest form I've ever seen any iteration of any character named Megatron in, and yes know there was a Megatron shoe, a soda can dragon, a bear and a cell phone.

Well, it was a terrible implementation of the idea. And two of the worst transformers ever. Oh, there was a legion class version too, wasn't there? Ick, I remember it. Ok, three of the worst transformers ever.

There was a Megatron Bear and Cellphone?

> ROTF tank mainly fails a the robot mode, because it's still using 2007's robot, and didn't have a big iconic cannon or 2 real arms, but it's still an upgrade as it is winning at not being a jet.

And yet... we saw it fly.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:31:46 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 10:44:39 AM UTC-8, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 9:12:55 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> > > I just don't. Even when the toys are great (Combiner Wars, Siege), it just doesn't fit the character we know and love from G1.
> > >
> > > Aside from being a gun, here are the main qualities of his alt-mode:
> > > - Wasn't used for travel -- Megatron flew everywhere in robot mode.
> > > - Wasn't used for disguise -- It was a terrible disguise. People kept picking up Soundwave in tape player mode, but they were never willing to go with a construction worker finding a gun on the ground and keeping it
> > > - Was distinctive on Earth -- no other cartoon Decepticons had a similar mode on Earth.
> > > - Wasn't able to be used as a weapon without someone else's help -- this was just weird, but it is there.
> > >
> > > As much as I dislike the Movieverse*, I think they got it right giving Megatron a Cybertronian space ship mode in the first film. And, it works well in TF:Prime.
> > >
> > > It doesn't match all the qualities I list above:
> > > - it does get used for travel, but at least it's not ground based and just replaces flying in robot mode (weak match)
> > > - it's not a disguise at all (basically a match)
> > > - it's distinctive on Earth (match)
> > > - cannot be used as a weapon (sad)
> > >
> > > I think I just can't see Megatron rolling around on the ground like a Stunticon, or a disabled Blitzwing. Decepticons with vehicle modes fly, and while there are a few exceptions, Megatron shouldn't be one.
> > >
> > > *: I have a complicated relationship with the Movieverse. It's so wrong, and so bad that it can be enjoyable.
> >
> > Megatron as a jet was the worst. Going back to gladiator times, Megatron is Strength, Firepower, and Dexterity. Jets are speed and agility. Megatron's mass the only air vehicle he should ever be is a bomber, like Lugnut,
>
> This is my favorite of the jet modes, from TF:Prime
> https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(WFC)/toys#Prime:_First_Edition
>

Ugly crab. Made a great BW Cybertronian Protoform X. The robot mode works for Megatron but the jet mode is horrific.

> TF:Animated had another variant or two as basically a flying cannon, and those are also fine.
>

Animated was basically a helicopter lugging a cannon around. I didn't like it but it was still more acceptable than the jets.

> The Last Knight had an entirely different, great take on the form. And, most of these would be better with a larger cannon.
>

It was a better jet than 2007. But we're so far in the game, we're giving 2 alt modes to character's who will never get toys with 2 alt modes. Why go back to weird jet thing after Megatron has had 2 truck modes? At this point why are we not getting a triple changer Megatron? I actualy liked TR Megatron so much more than I thought I would because it was implemented well. But no, we can't do that, we get triple changer Drift, Dropkick, and Shatter, which will never get triple changing toys.

> A bomber would be good, except a bomber is actually a useful disguise. As much as a fighter is. There are several places in the US where people would not be terrified of a bomber flying overhead.
>

At this point, so late in the game, Why can't Megatron have a useful disguise? He had one in so many other series.

> > The tank is power, and strength, to match his form. The tank is literally a gun on wheels. It maintains his destructive power. Megatron always relied on other Decepticons in the original cartoon, even though he would never admit to needing that help. A tank gives him the independence to use his gun mode on his own. A jet just doesn't fit the right firepower on board.
>
> I can see that, but I would still counter that Megatron should not be stuck on the ground like a common Autobot. That's just as wrong.
>

G1 Megatron flew in robot mode all the time, or was carried. It's only a disability if you let it be. As long as he has loyal hordes of seekers he will never be *stuck* on the ground. It's not a weakness anyone will see.

> I think the ideal alt-mode would be some kind of flying cannon, like WFC Shockwave.
>

But Shockwave was a flying gun in G1. He flew in gun mode all the time.

It would still be better Megatron be a flying cannon than be a jet.

> > His 2007 jet mode is quite literally the saddest form I've ever seen any iteration of any character named Megatron in, and yes know there was a Megatron shoe, a soda can dragon, a bear and a cell phone.
>
> Well, it was a terrible implementation of the idea. And two of the worst transformers ever. Oh, there was a legion class version too, wasn't there? Ick, I remember it. Ok, three of the worst transformers ever.
>
> There was a Megatron Bear and Cellphone?
>

Bearbrick was a bear that looked like Megatron that transformed into a Megatron robot wearing a bear that looked like Megatron.

> > ROTF tank mainly fails a the robot mode, because it's still using 2007's robot, and didn't have a big iconic cannon or 2 real arms, but it's still an upgrade as it is winning at not being a jet.
>
> And yet... we saw it fly.

Still wasn't a jet.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 6:26:33 AM UTC-8, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:31:46 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 10:44:39 AM UTC-8, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 9:12:55 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> > > > I just don't. Even when the toys are great (Combiner Wars, Siege), it just doesn't fit the character we know and love from G1.
> > > >
> > > > Aside from being a gun, here are the main qualities of his alt-mode:
> > > > - Wasn't used for travel -- Megatron flew everywhere in robot mode.
> > > > - Wasn't used for disguise -- It was a terrible disguise. People kept picking up Soundwave in tape player mode, but they were never willing to go with a construction worker finding a gun on the ground and keeping it
> > > > - Was distinctive on Earth -- no other cartoon Decepticons had a similar mode on Earth.
> > > > - Wasn't able to be used as a weapon without someone else's help -- this was just weird, but it is there.
> > > >
> > > > As much as I dislike the Movieverse*, I think they got it right giving Megatron a Cybertronian space ship mode in the first film. And, it works well in TF:Prime.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't match all the qualities I list above:
> > > > - it does get used for travel, but at least it's not ground based and just replaces flying in robot mode (weak match)
> > > > - it's not a disguise at all (basically a match)
> > > > - it's distinctive on Earth (match)
> > > > - cannot be used as a weapon (sad)
> > > >
> > > > I think I just can't see Megatron rolling around on the ground like a Stunticon, or a disabled Blitzwing. Decepticons with vehicle modes fly, and while there are a few exceptions, Megatron shouldn't be one.
> > > >
> > > > *: I have a complicated relationship with the Movieverse. It's so wrong, and so bad that it can be enjoyable.
> > >
> > > Megatron as a jet was the worst. Going back to gladiator times, Megatron is Strength, Firepower, and Dexterity. Jets are speed and agility. Megatron's mass the only air vehicle he should ever be is a bomber, like Lugnut,
> >
> > This is my favorite of the jet modes, from TF:Prime
> > https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_(WFC)/toys#Prime:_First_Edition
> >
>
> Ugly crab. Made a great BW Cybertronian Protoform X. The robot mode works for Megatron but the jet mode is horrific.

It holds together well, it is obviously a designed thing rather than a folded robot... it's not horrific. 2007 Megatron's spaceship mode was horrific.

> > TF:Animated had another variant or two as basically a flying cannon, and those are also fine.
>
> Animated was basically a helicopter lugging a cannon around. I didn't like it but it was still more acceptable than the jets.

I was thinking of the Cybertronian design.

> > The Last Knight had an entirely different, great take on the form. And, most of these would be better with a larger cannon.
> >
>
> It was a better jet than 2007. But we're so far in the game, we're giving 2 alt modes to character's who will never get toys with 2 alt modes. Why go back to weird jet thing after Megatron has had 2 truck modes? At this point why are we not getting a triple changer Megatron? I actualy liked TR Megatron so much more than I thought I would because it was implemented well. But no, we can't do that, we get triple changer Drift, Dropkick, and Shatter, which will never get triple changing toys.

I like TR Megatron a lot. The plane mode just doesn't work for me because it really isn't different enough from the classic Seeker design. There is no reason to not just kill Starscream and lead the seekers himself at that point.

> > A bomber would be good, except a bomber is actually a useful disguise. As much as a fighter is. There are several places in the US where people would not be terrified of a bomber flying overhead.
> >
>
> At this point, so late in the game, Why can't Megatron have a useful disguise? He had one in so many other series.

But, if he's an Earth plane, what sets him apart from the Seekers?

> > > The tank is power, and strength, to match his form. The tank is literally a gun on wheels. It maintains his destructive power. Megatron always relied on other Decepticons in the original cartoon, even though he would never admit to needing that help. A tank gives him the independence to use his gun mode on his own. A jet just doesn't fit the right firepower on board.
> >
> > I can see that, but I would still counter that Megatron should not be stuck on the ground like a common Autobot. That's just as wrong.
> >
>
> G1 Megatron flew in robot mode all the time, or was carried. It's only a disability if you let it be. As long as he has loyal hordes of seekers he will never be *stuck* on the ground. It's not a weakness anyone will see.
>
> > I think the ideal alt-mode would be some kind of flying cannon, like WFC Shockwave.
> >
>
> But Shockwave was a flying gun in G1. He flew in gun mode all the time.

WFC Shockwave, not G1.

> > > His 2007 jet mode is quite literally the saddest form I've ever seen any iteration of any character named Megatron in, and yes know there was a Megatron shoe, a soda can dragon, a bear and a cell phone.
> >
> > Well, it was a terrible implementation of the idea. And two of the worst transformers ever. Oh, there was a legion class version too, wasn't there? Ick, I remember it. Ok, three of the worst transformers ever.
> >
> > There was a Megatron Bear and Cellphone?
> >
>
> Bearbrick was a bear that looked like Megatron that transformed into a Megatron robot wearing a bear that looked like Megatron.

That's kind of awesome. If he had a cannon, I would say we found the ideal alt-mode.

> > > ROTF tank mainly fails a the robot mode, because it's still using 2007's robot, and didn't have a big iconic cannon or 2 real arms, but it's still an upgrade as it is winning at not being a jet.
> >
> > And yet... we saw it fly.
>
> Still wasn't a jet.

Spaceship. Whatever.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

Cybertronian design was just a folded robot with a gun... WFC Megatron (the first one, not Siege) was pretty good, but he was also a tank. Or a hover-tank, depending.

> > > The Last Knight had an entirely different, great take on the form. And, most of these would be better with a larger cannon.
> > >
> >

TLK leader was a fun toy. It's just not the best Megatron. (Voyager had too much wing kibble, ugh)

> > It was a better jet than 2007. But we're so far in the game, we're giving 2 alt modes to character's who will never get toys with 2 alt modes. Why go back to weird jet thing after Megatron has had 2 truck modes? At this point why are we not getting a triple changer Megatron? I actualy liked TR Megatron so much more than I thought I would because it was implemented well. But no, we can't do that, we get triple changer Drift, Dropkick, and Shatter, which will never get triple changing toys.
>
> I like TR Megatron a lot. The plane mode just doesn't work for me because it really isn't different enough from the classic Seeker design. There is no reason to not just kill Starscream and lead the seekers himself at that point.
>

Starscream was useful cannon fodder.

> > > A bomber would be good, except a bomber is actually a useful disguise. As much as a fighter is. There are several places in the US where people would not be terrified of a bomber flying overhead.
> > >
> >
> > At this point, so late in the game, Why can't Megatron have a useful disguise? He had one in so many other series.
>
> But, if he's an Earth plane, what sets him apart from the Seekers?
>

That's just one more reason he shouldn't be a plane, unless he was also a tank in a 3rd mode.

> > > > The tank is power, and strength, to match his form. The tank is literally a gun on wheels. It maintains his destructive power. Megatron always relied on other Decepticons in the original cartoon, even though he would never admit to needing that help. A tank gives him the independence to use his gun mode on his own. A jet just doesn't fit the right firepower on board.
> > >
> > > I can see that, but I would still counter that Megatron should not be stuck on the ground like a common Autobot. That's just as wrong.
> > >
> >
> > G1 Megatron flew in robot mode all the time, or was carried. It's only a disability if you let it be. As long as he has loyal hordes of seekers he will never be *stuck* on the ground. It's not a weakness anyone will see.
> >
> > > I think the ideal alt-mode would be some kind of flying cannon, like WFC Shockwave.
> > >
> >
> > But Shockwave was a flying gun in G1. He flew in gun mode all the time.
>
> WFC Shockwave, not G1.
>

WFC only exists because people were not happy with tank Shockwave, so this was as close to G1 floating gun as they could get at the time. It was clearly intended to be a floating gun.

> > > > His 2007 jet mode is quite literally the saddest form I've ever seen any iteration of any character named Megatron in, and yes know there was a Megatron shoe, a soda can dragon, a bear and a cell phone.
> > >
> > > Well, it was a terrible implementation of the idea. And two of the worst transformers ever. Oh, there was a legion class version too, wasn't there? Ick, I remember it. Ok, three of the worst transformers ever.
> > >
> > > There was a Megatron Bear and Cellphone?
> > >
> >
> > Bearbrick was a bear that looked like Megatron that transformed into a Megatron robot wearing a bear that looked like Megatron.
>
> That's kind of awesome. If he had a cannon, I would say we found the ideal alt-mode.
>

I think Megatron would disagree...

[Optim_1]

On Sunday, 9 December 2018 22:12:55 UTC-5, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> I just don't. Even when the toys are great (Combiner Wars, Siege), it just doesn't fit the character we know and love from G1.
>
> Aside from being a gun, here are the main qualities of his alt-mode:
> - Wasn't used for travel -- Megatron flew everywhere in robot mode.
> - Wasn't used for disguise -- It was a terrible disguise. People kept picking up Soundwave in tape player mode, but they were never willing to go with a construction worker finding a gun on the ground and keeping it
> - Was distinctive on Earth -- no other cartoon Decepticons had a similar mode on Earth.
> - Wasn't able to be used as a weapon without someone else's help -- this was just weird, but it is there.

I prefer Megatron as a gun but I admit that the qualities of his gun alt-mode you described above read like disadvantages, which is true.

So, if Megatron can't be a gun, then he should be a gunship. It would be used for travel; more or less can be used for disguise; distinctive on Earth as no other Transformer has had one (if I recall correctly); and can be used as weapon without help.

A gunship is plodding but loaded with destructive weapons. It would suit Megatron's military creed: attacking targets with superior forces of strength and weapons as opposed to fast, strafing strikes that Starscream favours.

The Animated Megatron gunship helicopter is the best alt-mode version of Megatron so far that is not a gun. It is also a great toy to boot.

If he can't be a gun because of current laws banning replica firearms, then let him be a taser. :) I am not completely joking about this.