[BOTCON] Extremely Worried
Neale Davidson
Beast Machines. Suffice to say, it will indeed be a very unpleasant
splitting in the fandom between the 'old-cry-babies' and the
'angst-bot-sycophants'. I can see a tension in the convention that I'm not
looking forward to.
But worse, Skir and Isenburn will be there, with bodyguards, and I actually
think that they might need them. Even with the changes with Beast Wars there
was never this much rampant hostility about the current Transformer series.
I have never seen so many calls to violence (mostly by those 'fans' who have
lacted on to Beast Machines) against people who dare to disagree.
With some reluctance, I've decided that I'm not going to BotCon this year. I
don't expect it to be a pleasant experience. I sincerely ask that 'both
sides' of this argument keep their cool when they go. That they act in a
mature and responsible manner, and that the worst thing that will happen to
anyone at the con is that Tony Preto charged too much for a Micromaster
Six-Combiner again.
---------------------------------------------------------
Neale Davidson
The Protoform Project
http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale
---------------------------------------------------------
ChoRyuuJin
anyone at the con is that Tony Preto charged too much for a Micromaster
Six-Combiner again.>
Well that's a stupid way to end the post isn't it? A pot-shot at someone when
you''re asking everybody to get along?
Dalmatian
> With some reluctance, I've decided that I'm not going to BotCon this year. I
> don't expect it to be a pleasant experience.
This is one big case of paranoia here. :)
First of all I think you give BM too much credit. Also I think you
don't give BC enough credit.
It's such a super fun happy place that no one can be mad. Not even if
Straxus goes off to potty mouth every fanfic he doesn't like by name at
a forum.
And although I dislike BM now (the ending had a nice concept although
the execution of it was horribly horribly lame.) the most I'll do is
probably ask Mr. Skir (if he's there) to sign my Primal with the caption
"I lived a warrior and died to an awful cartoon series."
--
----
/ .. \
/| D |\ - Either that or "The seeds of the
\|----|/ future lie burried in my pants."
==
| / \
\/| |\
- - - - ------------------------------
http://www.funnyfarmcomics.com
ViceGripX Version 2.0
>Neale Davidson wrote:
>
>> With some reluctance, I've decided that I'm not going to BotCon this
year. I
>> don't expect it to be a pleasant experience.
>
>This is one big case of paranoia here. :)
Agreed. :)
>First of all I think you give BM too much credit. Also I think you
>don't give BC enough credit.
Yeah, besides, if anyone tries anything, me and Bald Evil (provided he's
there this year) will SMASH! :)
>It's such a super fun happy place that no one can be mad. Not even if
>Straxus goes off to potty mouth every fanfic he doesn't like by name at
>a forum.
I can't imagine not having a good time at Botcon, except my first one
where I knew only two people, but that still didn't stop me.
>And although I dislike BM now (the ending had a nice concept although
>the execution of it was horribly horribly lame.) the most I'll do is
>probably ask Mr. Skir (if he's there) to sign my Primal with the caption
>"I lived a warrior and died to an awful cartoon series."
I have a few questions for Mr. Skir and Mr. Isenberg myself, just rather
general ones though. And I probably will have them sign my Jetstorm with
something witty like a sock puppet reference. :)
>--
> ----
> / .. \
> /| D |\ - Either that or "The seeds of the
> \|----|/ future lie buried in my pants."
> ==
> | / \
> \/| |\
> - - - - ------------------------------
> http://www.funnyfarmcomics.com
Slappy Squirrel: "Now THAT'S comedy!" :)
--
+--ViceGripX - http://www.wildrun.com/ - v...@wildrun.com -----------+
|"There are always naysayers that will say nay." |
|"I'm happier than a Terrorcon with two connector pegs!!" |
|"Wear a Stampy around your neck, you'll get chicks!" |
Neale Davidson
Suspsy
attending Botcon. I mean come on, most of them were from Deathasaurus for
pete's sake. Does anyone really think that that illiterate dimbulb is really
going to try and strangle Neale right there in the middle of the convention
centre?
In fact, I resent it when people say there not going purely because there
afraid of a little hostility. I would LOVE to go to Botcon. I would relish
every minute, every second of it. I want to meet the voice actors, the
writers, and most of all, all the ATTers. I want to watch that 24-hour
episode fest. And I'd like to get my hands on some toys.
But right now, I'm busting my ass off trying to raise the money, as is a
buddy of mine. We may or may not be able to do it, I can't say as of this
point. But if you, Neale, or anyone else has the means to go to Botcon, well
holy s*it! Go, for the love of God! Don't pass it up just because you're
afraid of what may or may not be said. If I went, I wouldn't give a damn
what was said. I'd gladly take part in any discussion regrading Beast
machines, or any other aspect of the TF universe. I'd ask respectable,
carefully-phrased questions of Bob Skir, and I would never resort to
anything as childish as name-calling or threats of physical violence. I just
want to go to Botcon.
Suspsy
"Flying is the ultimate freedom." -Skyfall
"Neale Davidson" <TFN...@home.com> wrote in message
news:OkeQ4.44613$fF5.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
> Well, if not all, then most of ATT has found out what happens at the end
of
> Beast Machines. Suffice to say, it will indeed be a very unpleasant
> splitting in the fandom between the 'old-cry-babies' and the
> 'angst-bot-sycophants'. I can see a tension in the convention that I'm not
> looking forward to.
>
> But worse, Skir and Isenburn will be there, with bodyguards, and I
actually
> think that they might need them. Even with the changes with Beast Wars
there
> was never this much rampant hostility about the current Transformer
series.
> I have never seen so many calls to violence (mostly by those 'fans' who
have
> lacted on to Beast Machines) against people who dare to disagree.
>
> With some reluctance, I've decided that I'm not going to BotCon this year.
I
> don't expect it to be a pleasant experience. I sincerely ask that 'both
> sides' of this argument keep their cool when they go. That they act in a
> mature and responsible manner, and that the worst thing that will happen
to
> anyone at the con is that Tony Preto charged too much for a Micromaster
> Six-Combiner again.
>
SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself
> Yeah, besides, if anyone tries anything, me and Bald Evil (provided he's
> there this year) will SMASH! :)
Say, were you by any chance Tankor in a previous toyline? ;)
--
Rikard Bakke
Swo...@xoommail.com
The Cybertron Chronicle
http://members.xoom.com/Swoop73/
Transformers Fan Code
G++ FR FW+ #72 D+ AA+ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC98++ BC99++ BC2000 CN+++ OM+
SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself
> Well, you guys weren't the ones recieving the death threats...
Neale, do you really think those threats can be taken seriously?
Consider the source. I don't think anyone would really have the
guts to even think of trying anything as long as there is a crowd
of 1.000 people around at any given moment. And if someone
did, well, I know we wouldn't just stand by and watch it happen.
At least I wouldn't.
So give it another thought; if there are no financial shortcomings
stopping you from going, or something else important getting in
your way, there's really no reason not to go, is there?
Neale Davidson
> Consider the source. I don't think anyone would really have the
> guts to even think of trying anything as long as there is a crowd
> of 1.000 people around at any given moment. And if someone
> did, well, I know we wouldn't just stand by and watch it happen.
> At least I wouldn't.
Do I think the threats mean much? No. Does it really ruin the key
point of being there for me? Yes. I don't WANT to go someplace
where a bunch of Skir-sucking sycophants think it's kosher to threaten
and harass me, even if there are people there I want to see otherwise,
and things I want to do.
To be honest.. how can I enjoy it when part of me WANTS to confront
these people who make the threats... who harass me constantly.. who
justify anything they do as 'you have it coming 'cause you don't like
Beast Machines'. It would be hell for me... I've got too much a 'payback'
streak in me to risk it.
I simply could not have a good time because I would be biting my tongue
the entire weekend.
ViceGripX Version 2.0
>ViceGripX Version 2.0 wrote:
>
>> Yeah, besides, if anyone tries anything, me and Bald Evil (provided
he's
>> there this year) will SMASH! :)
>
>Say, were you by any chance Tankor in a previous toyline? ;)
Why should I tell you? It's all part of my master plan.
alt.toys.transformers needs a leader uncontaminated by off-topicness and
hatred. Someone like me. Now that all my pawns are in place,
I...errr...SMASH! :)
ViceGripX Version 2.0
>To be honest.. how can I enjoy it when part of me WANTS to confront
>these people who make the threats... who harass me constantly.. who
>justify anything they do as 'you have it coming 'cause you don't like
>Beast Machines'. It would be hell for me... I've got too much a 'payback'
>streak in me to risk it.
>
>I simply could not have a good time because I would be biting my tongue
>the entire weekend.
Well, I can understand and respect your decision not to go. I would
probably do the same in your place. Still, I was looking forward to
possibly meeting you (among others), sorry to hear I won't get the
opportunity.
George
<URL:mailto:TFN...@home.com> wrote:
> > Neale, do you really think those threats can be taken seriously?
> > Consider the source. I don't think anyone would really have the
> > guts to even think of trying anything as long as there is a crowd
> > of 1.000 people around at any given moment. And if someone
> > did, well, I know we wouldn't just stand by and watch it happen.
> > At least I wouldn't.
>
> Do I think the threats mean much? No. Does it really ruin the key
> point of being there for me? Yes. I don't WANT to go someplace
> where a bunch of Skir-sucking sycophants think it's kosher to threaten
> and harass me, even if there are people there I want to see otherwise,
> and things I want to do.
Yet, anyone who approves of Beast Machines (not necesarilly in the
extreme) seems to meet with quite a barrage from yourself as to how
awful you think it is. What are they gonna do? Hit themselves on the head
and say, "D'oh! Of course I hate it! I just forgot!"
Neale, try very hard to practise what your preach. Leave the BM fans alone
and they'll leave you alone. Even I know where to stop acting self righteous:
some would say your inability to leave something alone has got you into trouble
on the net in the past. Believe me, I know what it's like to know
you are positively, definatly RIGHT and that everyone else is just
blinded. That's what I felt like...well, a few times. But eventually,
when you can't get any further, when the people you think
are causing the trouble ain't budging...leave them alone!
Don't expect them to: if you really are right, then they can't
be that bright, can they?
Oh, and the admin still suck on TLY. ;-)
=======================================================
George Quail - Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire, Scotland,
Europe, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, The
Universe. Near Space
Neale Davidson
--
---------------------------------------------------------
Neale Davidson
The Protoform Project
http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale
---------------------------------------------------------
> Yet, anyone who approves of Beast Machines (not necesarilly in the
> extreme) seems to meet with quite a barrage from yourself as to how
> awful you think it is. What are they gonna do? Hit themselves on the
head
> and say, "D'oh! Of course I hate it! I just forgot!"
Actually, I don't post too much about it. I /do/ take some factual issues up
with some people at times, and, when I see about how 'great this is for
Transformers and everything from here on out should be shades of
Technomatter', then I'm going to counter that voice. Why shouldn't I? Am I
attacking the PEOPLE doing this? Very very rarely.
Also, the arguments I harp on, really, are the 'If we don't buy this, Hasbro
will drop Transformers' arguments, and the 'All the fans love you' argument.
That's when I pretty much step in and say 'hi, um. No.' As a Transformer
fan, is it far on me to have EddieX, or - gods forbid - Deathasaurus speak
up for me? I don't /think/ so.
I mean, I gave up on reviewing the BM episodes even after giving some of the
first season ones /good/ marks. Why? I wasn't giving them good enough marks
for some... I was actually harassed because I gave an episode a 'B' instead
of an 'A'!
> Neale, try very hard to practise what your preach. Leave the BM fans
alone
> and they'll leave you alone. Even I know where to stop acting self
righteous:
> some would say your inability to leave something alone has got you into
trouble
> on the net in the past.
Paint me as a bad guy and I admit that's guaranteed to spur me into a fight.
I think, in all honesty, I've been one of the saner voices , though, if a
sometimes repetitive one. :) Another thing is to constantly keep putting
words in my mouth.. which happens a lot as well.
> Believe me, I know what it's like to know
> you are positively, definatly RIGHT and that everyone else is just
> blinded. That's what I felt like...well, a few times. But eventually,
> when you can't get any further, when the people you think
> are causing the trouble ain't budging...leave them alone!
> Don't expect them to: if you really are right, then they can't
> be that bright, can they?
For things that a purely a matter of taste, none of this would have greatly
bothered me. At no time to I attack someone for merely disagreeing with me.
I haven't been shown the same courtesy too often. I empathize with Raksha
and Skyflight (though I disagree with most of their points), because it is
extremely tiring to be so attacked for simply stating your opinion in an
open forum.
If I had known that Beast Machines would have been a rift like this, I would
have created alt.toys.beastmachines myself and demanded that all traffic for
the 'new fans' be sent down the road to it. This mess, though, and the mess
to come, just isn't worth it.
> Oh, and the admin still suck on TLY. ;-)
Yeah I know, but let's leave their private lives out of it, okay? (KIDDING!
This is a
joke peeps!)
George
<URL:mailto:TFN...@home.com> wrote:
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Neale Davidson
> The Protoform Project
> http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Yet, anyone who approves of Beast Machines (not necesarilly in the
> > extreme) seems to meet with quite a barrage from yourself as to how
> > awful you think it is. What are they gonna do? Hit themselves on the
> head
> > and say, "D'oh! Of course I hate it! I just forgot!"
>
> Actually, I don't post too much about it. I /do/ take some factual issues up
> with some people at times, and, when I see about how 'great this is for
> Transformers and everything from here on out should be shades of
> Technomatter', then I'm going to counter that voice. Why shouldn't I? Am I
> attacking the PEOPLE doing this? Very very rarely.
You have a questionable grip on facts. "The writing is bad" is not a fact, it's
an opinion, yet you weren't too nice with your treatment of that today. "BM Cheetor is
ugly" is an opinon, not a fact, yet in the early days of BM it was hard convincing
you (or your family. :-) ) of that.
> Also, the arguments I harp on, really, are the 'If we don't buy this, Hasbro
> will drop Transformers' arguments, and the 'All the fans love you' argument.
> That's when I pretty much step in and say 'hi, um. No.' As a Transformer
> fan, is it far on me to have EddieX, or - gods forbid - Deathasaurus speak
> up for me? I don't /think/ so.
That is plain untrue. Today, when people remarked on how BM's changes were good
and they liked the writing, you basically did nothing but say, "No, you see, it's
THIS way." Which is no help at all.
> I mean, I gave up on reviewing the BM episodes even after giving some of the
> first season ones /good/ marks. Why? I wasn't giving them good enough marks
> for some... I was actually harassed because I gave an episode a 'B' instead
> of an 'A'!
So, you assault all BM fans who, well, like it? You think this justifies it?
You think because a fat American women pushed me once I should push all Americans
out my way?
RISE ABOVE THEM! IGNORE THEM! Try to look the better one, like I tried to do
when TFX1 posted some very impolite posts after his prices were quesioned.
He ranted and cussed away, yet I was repetitive but polite and calm. I nailed
him in a different way, as well as getting some public opinion behind me: it was
still spam on the group, but I looked more "on the right side". It would work
for you, too.
> > Neale, try very hard to practise what your preach. Leave the BM fans
> alone
> > and they'll leave you alone. Even I know where to stop acting self
> righteous:
> > some would say your inability to leave something alone has got you into
> trouble
> > on the net in the past.
>
> Paint me as a bad guy and I admit that's guaranteed to spur me into a fight.
Face it, Neale, you have to be a bad guy to someone. And frankly, if you
go out doing what I percieve you to do (not what you necesarilly DO...) then
you aren't going to do anything but look like the guy who draws first. Not
many of them are good.
> I think, in all honesty, I've been one of the saner voices , though, if a
> sometimes repetitive one. :)
That's the point. Someone says they like BM and why. You say that's wrong.
NOBODY CARES. You can't change someone's personal opinion like that. You can't
say, "No, it's THIS way!" and expect anything from it when it's a "I like X thing"
post. Just...LIVE WITH IT!.
> Another thing is to constantly keep putting
> words in my mouth.. which happens a lot as well.
Really? I can identify with it, but again you have to stop
thinking "They're asking for it!" and let it be. By continuously
trying to, well, brainwash people, all you do is build yourself up for BM
what Raksha is for BW.
> > Believe me, I know what it's like to know
> > you are positively, definatly RIGHT and that everyone else is just
> > blinded. That's what I felt like...well, a few times. But eventually,
> > when you can't get any further, when the people you think
> > are causing the trouble ain't budging...leave them alone!
> > Don't expect them to: if you really are right, then they can't
> > be that bright, can they?
>
> For things that a purely a matter of taste, none of this would have greatly
> bothered me. At no time to I attack someone for merely disagreeing with me.
Oh, I'd question that. Look over your latest posts, for example.
> I haven't been shown the same courtesy too often. I empathize with Raksha
> and Skyflight (though I disagree with most of their points), because it is
> extremely tiring to be so attacked for simply stating your opinion in an
> open forum.
Well, when your opinion is so violently put, what could they expect?
> If I had known that Beast Machines would have been a rift like this, I would
> have created alt.toys.beastmachines myself and demanded that all traffic for
> the 'new fans' be sent down the road to it. This mess, though, and the mess
> to come, just isn't worth it.
What utter nonsense you do talk. The same was said for Beast Wars before it, but
did anyone do so....NO! Creating ATTCM simply divided the fandom more, it didn't
solve the problem. BM is on-topic here and will never be off-topic: you can not demand
anything of the sort, anyhoo.
> > Oh, and the admin still suck on TLY. ;-)
>
> Yeah I know, but let's leave their private lives out of it, okay? (KIDDING!
> This is a
> joke peeps!)
They do, though. First BW is "sacrilage", then PCC can't have Earthy
names which are (a) less earth than "real" G1 names and (b) aren't that
Earthy, since many sources since G1 cartoon/comic show Cybertron to have
some sort of organic life, now...
Now, while talking about the first "real" female BA toy, BM BA, I
mentioned that female TF's really are redundant from a plot view: why
would robots really need femmes? (Even my no-TF fan friends can get this
much) Yet one admin member (who shall remain nameless, but was the same
whoargues against my Earthy names/organic cybertron stuff) claimed
gender was needed for sentience, . Funny, since a few hundred years ago
people claimed white skin was needed for sentience. Just because we have
only seen 2 sex creatures doesn't mean alien races can't have, say, fifteen
sexes. Hey, we have an appendix...
Daniel E. Dutra
Neale Davidson wrote:
> If I had known that Beast Machines would have been a rift like this, I would
> have created alt.toys.beastmachines myself and demanded that all traffic for
> the 'new fans' be sent down the road to it.
Why shouldn't they be posted heer? And who are you to demand anything?
> This mess, though, and the mess
> to come, just isn't worth it.
Well you started most of it.
--
Dan Dutra
Software Engineer, AK Media Solutions
http://www.akmedia.com
Scott E. Kampa
"Daniel E. Dutra" <d...@akmedia.com> wrote:
> > This mess, though, and the mess
> > to come, just isn't worth it.
>
> Well you started most of it.
I don't think this is a fair statement. No one person started all of
this flaming garbage. In the mini-war from *last* week, it'd be like
saying that BJ starts all the non-topic stuff, which of course isn't
true. I doubt Neale started any "mess". It happened. And I think
everybody here should take a deep breath and try not to continue it.
Scott, I'm no exception either...heck, I'll probably just leave it to
the wayside in a couple of days and just not read these posts anymore
if it doesn't straighten itself out...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Oedipus, put your mother down. You'll poke your eyes out."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Come visit Prime's Watercloset!
http://sekampa.tripod.com/index.html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Anthony Oster
Neale Davidson wrote:
>
>
> If I had known that Beast Machines would have been a rift like this, I
> would have created alt.toys.beastmachines myself and demanded that all
> traffic for the 'new fans' be sent down the road to it. This mess,
> though, and the mess to come, just isn't worth it.
You know, I really hate to get involved in these arguments since there
is rarely ever a solution, but I must respond to this.
Why exactly do you think that you have the right to make a new
newsgroup for BM, and *demand* that all BM traffic be sent there? The
last that I checked, this group was for *all* things Transformers. From
G1, BW, and even Animorphs, it's still acceptable here.
I can understand making a group where BM is not allowed, but for someone
who's always preaching about how his opinions will not be supressed to
loosely say "I don't like BM, and I demand that you not post anything
about it here because *I* say so," REALLY hits my pet peeve button.
Anthony
Neale Davidson
> You have a questionable grip on facts. "The writing is bad" is not a
fact, it's
> an opinion, yet you weren't too nice with your treatment of that today.
"BM Cheetor is
> ugly" is an opinon, not a fact, yet in the early days of BM it was hard
convincing
> you (or your family. :-) ) of that.
Look at BM Cheetor again! He's factually UGLY! :>
As for some points, I do take issues with people telling me my opnion is
/wrong/. But even then the most heated 'debates' come not from the reviews,
but from things like 'Nightscream said 'Robot' derisively', which is a fact
in the show.
> That is plain untrue. Today, when people remarked on how BM's changes
were good
> and they liked the writing, you basically did nothing but say, "No, you
see, it's
> THIS way." Which is no help at all.
Look at the specific posts that I responded to. Also, when I respond to BM's
changes - it's because those changes come at a detriment of seeing anything
like G1, or even BW, ever again. I won't go into this more, because of
spoilers.
As for the writing. I /do/ consider it sub-par. Even for Skir's other work.
I actually /can/ point out 'factual' observations for the writing faults in
the show. In many cases, I do just that. But then, I forget, I'm just not
allowed to critique, am I?
> So, you assault all BM fans who, well, like it? You think this justifies
it?
> You think because a fat American women pushed me once I should push all
Americans
> out my way?
I don't assault all BM fans. There are certain types of BM fans that I
cannot stand, and, truth be said, I can't stand those types of fans for
anything else, either. I want to slap around all those people who want to
keep Star Trek: Voyager on the air just because it has the words 'Star Trek'
in the title. I want to slap around all those Decepticon fans who HAVE to
revise canon to suit their point of views. I want to slap around the people
who post 'G1 RULEZ! and BW SUX' whenever I see them.
When I posted my /very/ hard critique of Reformatting, I recieved over 100
emails that night. Nearly eighty percent of them were from the same six or
seven people telling me what they were going to do to me at Botcon. Ten
percent were in full agreement with me, and ten percent were by people who
disagreed with me.
To this day, the latter twenty percent there I've never had cause to deal
with. The former group, however, STILL do their little attacks, their
threats, what have you. And, frankly, they're the ones being so vehement
against me now. This is a really stupid issue to be a martyr over, and
that's not what I'm going for.
What I /really/ want is for one of the zealots to say 'You know, I really
disagree with you, here's why, but it's just a matter of taste." But that's
asking too much.
> Face it, Neale, you have to be a bad guy to someone. And frankly, if you
> go out doing what I percieve you to do (not what you necesarilly DO...)
then
> you aren't going to do anything but look like the guy who draws first.
Not
> many of them are good.
I counterpunch more than punch. Truth is, even though I don't like Skir's
handling of Beast Machines, and I HATE his web page (Renaud, you don't
realize how much damage you've done) I wouldn't even be mean to the guy. I
think he did his job, but never had the enthusiasm for it that Bob and Larry
developed. I wouldn't mind talking to him about the industry, and some
inside things about how he reacted to the fans and the board and yadda.
> That's the point. Someone says they like BM and why. You say that's
wrong.
> NOBODY CARES. You can't change someone's personal opinion like that. You
can't
> say, "No, it's THIS way!" and expect anything from it when it's a "I like
X thing"
> post. Just...LIVE WITH IT!.
I /don't/ post to every 'I like Beast Machines' thread. There's no point.
For people who like the show, I'm glad they had something to like. It's when
the more long-term aspects of the franchise, either the toys or mythos, are
discussed I will join in with the discussion.
> Really? I can identify with it, but again you have to stop
> thinking "They're asking for it!" and let it be. By continuously
> trying to, well, brainwash people, all you do is build yourself up for BM
> what Raksha is for BW.
There are so many jokes I can make here.. but Raksha's mad enough at me
already...
> What utter nonsense you do talk. The same was said for Beast Wars before
it, but
> did anyone do so....NO! Creating ATTCM simply divided the fandom more, it
didn't
> solve the problem. BM is on-topic here and will never be off-topic: you
can not demand
> anything of the sort, anyhoo.
Different mindsets, actually. For Beast Wars, I didn't want to see ATTCM
created, I wanted a seperate newsgroup created for Beast Wars. I always
thought that would have been better as a way for 'classic fans' to give
Beast Wars fans a freer forum to discuss their favorite series. It would
still be on topic for ATT, of course, but they could be happier in the new
group, and new fans would be much more likely to fit in. For Beast Machines,
I pretty much envisioned the same thing.
> They do, though. First BW is "sacrilage", then PCC can't have Earthy
> names which are (a) less earth than "real" G1 names and (b) aren't that
> Earthy, since many sources since G1 cartoon/comic show Cybertron to have
> some sort of organic life, now...
I'm NOT going to talk bad about TLY, though. I had problems there, yeah,
largely for my caustic attitude, and I admit it. But.. well.. most of those
guys are still my friends, and I want to keep it that way. Venting
frustrations about minor things HERE just isn't conducive to that...
Darwinian Road Kill
: >This is one big case of paranoia here. :)
: Agreed. :)
I don't agree, but that could be because I've seen too much.
: >First of all I think you give BM too much credit.
TF:WW, now that's where the credit should go! :)
: >It's such a super fun happy place that no one can be mad. Not even if
: >Straxus goes off to potty mouth every fanfic he doesn't like by name at
: >a forum.
Has Straxus read ATT Machines? Hmmm...
: >And although I dislike BM now (the ending had a nice concept although
: >the execution of it was horribly horribly lame.) the most I'll do is
: >probably ask Mr. Skir (if he's there) to sign my Primal with the caption
: >"I lived a warrior and died to an awful cartoon series."
Heh. would work better with an Optimal Horace kitbash, but hey...
: I have a few questions for Mr. Skir and Mr. Isenberg myself, just rather
: general ones though. And I probably will have them sign my Jetstorm with
: something witty like a sock puppet reference. :)
I'll keep my questions pertinent and reasonably polite...
"Whose image were you trying to remake TFs into?"
"What happened to Horace's balls in Season 1?"
"WHY NO PENGUINS?!"
I don't think anyone could find fault with those...
: > ----
: > / .. \
: > /| D |\ - Either that or "The seeds of the
: > \|----|/ future lie buried in my pants."
: > ==
: > | / \
: > \/| |\
: > - - - - ------------------------------
The first major clue that BMach wasn't written by Pic....
That and no "wisdom of the ages is lost" bit.
Ryan :>
(Cheetor: "I found it!")
--
(Founder of the new #tfu, and #aptenos)
"People who like penguins are nice people" -- Eric Bennett
(Fact: If my sig get over 10 lines, you can hit me)
My half-baked site: www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/8720
TF code: G++ AD/A OP/Q P212 ICQ:43171844
Duo Maxwell
"ChoRyuuJin" <chory...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000504091750...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> <and that the worst thing that will happen to
> anyone at the con is that Tony Preto charged too much for a Micromaster
> Six-Combiner again.>
>
when
> you''re asking everybody to get along?
It was meant to be more of a sarcasm thing I think.
Besides, Mr. Preto is a fine, if somewhat gruff dealer.
Neale Davidson
> Besides, Mr. Preto is a fine, if somewhat gruff dealer.
Preto's a good guy, actually. His stuff is a tad pricey, though, and it used
to be a bit of a running joke. (The older ATTers will remember this.) It WAS
meant to be a bit of sarcasm, indicating that any complaints and worries at
BotCon would hopefully minor.
Nightwind
> With some reluctance, I've decided that I'm not going to BotCon this
year. I
> don't expect it to be a pleasant experience. I sincerely ask that
'both
> sides' of this argument keep their cool when they go. That they act
in a
> mature and responsible manner, and that the worst thing that will
happen to
> anyone at the con is that Tony Preto charged too much for a
Micromaster
> Six-Combiner again.
I'm really sorry to hear that, Neale. I was looking forward to the
opportunity to perhaps meet you in person. (Us happily married
Transfans have to stick together, you know. :) )
And I understand your reasoning for not going but, at the same time, I
really don't think that the overall atmosphere will be so marred by the
whole BMac debate. I mean, when Star Trek: The Next Generation came out
there was some SEVERE backlash in the Trekker community from some fans
of the original series that was every bit as virulent and violent (if
not MORE so, because the fandom itself is bigger than TF fandom), but
every convention I attended (and one that I helped organize) at that
time went off smooth as a baby's bottom. People were polite, even if
they disagreed with what was going on in the Star Trek world. Maybe I'm
just being an optimist, but I'm fairly certain that the same thing will
happen at Botcon. After all, I believe that people will say and do
things under the cover of online anonymity that they would never think
to do in real life...
Anyway, I'll be happy if I see ya there but of course I'll respect your
decision if you decide to stay away, too. :)
--
Peace, Nightwind
Mother of the World's Youngest TransFan
Official ATT Mother Hen and Hug Pusher
Keeper of the TransFan Asylum: http://home.att.net/~nightwind69
Dalmatian
>
> Dalmatian wrote...
> >Neale Davidson wrote:
> >
> >> With some reluctance, I've decided that I'm not going to BotCon this
> year. I
> >> don't expect it to be a pleasant experience.
> >
>
> Agreed. :)
"I can't go to BotCon as is so I'll make up an elaborate excuse not to
go."
Hee. Just kidding of course, Neale. :)
> >First of all I think you give BM too much credit. Also I think you
> >don't give BC enough credit.
>
> Yeah, besides, if anyone tries anything, me and Bald Evil (provided he's
> there this year) will SMASH! :)
You'll have to drag the trouble makers to the dark corner where BE is
lurking since he won't go out on his own.
> >"I lived a warrior and died to an awful cartoon series."
That's actually reserved for Megatron now...
--
----
/ .. \
/| D |\ - Nightscream's toy quote wouldn't be
\|----|/ so tactful.
==
| / \
\/| |\
- - - - ------------------------------
Black Zarak
> > Neale, do you really think those threats can be taken seriously?
> > Consider the source. I don't think anyone would really have the
> > guts to even think of trying anything as long as there is a crowd
> > of 1.000 people around at any given moment. And if someone
> > did, well, I know we wouldn't just stand by and watch it happen.
> > At least I wouldn't.
>
> Do I think the threats mean much? No. Does it really ruin the key
> point of being there for me? Yes. I don't WANT to go someplace
> where a bunch of Skir-sucking sycophants think it's kosher to threaten
> and harass me, even if there are people there I want to see otherwise,
> and things I want to do.
>
> To be honest.. how can I enjoy it when part of me WANTS to confront
> these people who make the threats... who harass me constantly.. who
> justify anything they do as 'you have it coming 'cause you don't like
> Beast Machines'. It would be hell for me... I've got too much a 'payback'
> streak in me to risk it.
>
> I simply could not have a good time because I would be biting my tongue
> the entire weekend.
And THIS people is WHY I often think that people tend to be a little *too*
passionate about their views and opinions. They get swept up in the moment,
attract a lot of unwanted attention, and what does it do? It reduces the
enjoyment of the hobby for both the recipient of the flak and everyone else
who is involved or who may read this on the newsgroup. People just need to
mellow out, calm down, and remember that despite our love for TFs, it IS just
a toyline and just a show. Yeah, I know that's not good PR on this newsgroup,
but I could care less because it IS true.
--
Black Zarak
Za...@csolve.net
Astrotrain and Black Zarak's TF Page:
http://members.xoom.com/astro_train/astrotra/astrotra.htm
Unofficial "Beast Wars Metals Clash! GunGun Battle" Videogame Webpage!:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9249/bwmetals.htm
Prime Saber
>
> SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself wrote...
> >Say, were you by any chance Tankor in a previous toyline? ;)
>
> Why should I tell you? It's all part of my master plan.
> alt.toys.transformers needs a leader uncontaminated by off-topicness and
> hatred. Someone like me. Now that all my pawns are in place,
> I...errr...SMASH! :)
I'd settle for keeping the peace. :} Actually, I thought way back then
that the original G1 series was heading toward the same conclusion as BM's,
with its various Masters and the organic Pretenders.
Tony Li, the Prime Saber: "Faster, stronger, more alive..."
Overlord of Japanese TFs from Headmasters through Car Robots at
http://www.primesaber.com
Starchaser
You are actualy able to come to botcon
I live in New zealand for gods sake
I would take any opertunity to get to botcon
and I agree with Neale BM Cheetor is ugly
it is a real pity that tentions betweel BM and G1 people can get this
high(refering to deathys "G1 SUCKS" post)
--
Starchaser HTTP://cantua.canterbury.ac.nz/~gdb48
Also goes by the name Cheetor
M Sipher
people simply lack the balls, to say nothing of the brains, to actually
attempt ANYTHING in public.
They hide behind that special anonynymity (sp?) of the Internet. They say
these things because they think there's no chance of retribution. (This is
of course, not true.)
3H is very aware of the hostility issue, and they have security hired.
Frankly, I doubt anyone would HONESTLY be so incredibly STUPID to attempt
physical violence on ANYONE.
So just go to the convention. Don't let twits ruin your fun, which is all
they're after.
M "Do You Want Them To WIN?!" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions - home of the productions of King Weasel!
Transformers, RockMan, original art, the solutions to all life's problems
and other crap!
http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/simak/109/
Home of the giant MegaMan/RockMan Toy & Merchandise Archive!
Darwinian Road Kill
: 3H is very aware of the hostility issue, and they have security hired.
: Frankly, I doubt anyone would HONESTLY be so incredibly STUPID to attempt
: physical violence on ANYONE.
Though you meant this for Neale, I'll say thanks for the reassurance as
well. I wasn't sure I wanted to go, for very similar reasons.
: So just go to the convention. Don't let twits ruin your fun, which is all
: they're after.
Well, supposedly they have more in the way of lives than that...
Ryan :>
Douglas W. Dlin
> Neale, all I'm going to say on this matter is that this particular breed of
> people simply lack the balls, to say nothing of the brains, to actually
> attempt ANYTHING in public.
>
Agreed. Neale, ask Ben Yee about "The Cult of the Fist" sometime...
Doug Dlin
ap...@hotmail.com
Neale Davidson
It's not a question of 'winning' or 'losing'. It's a question of do I even
want to bother trying this year? I am /that/ dissatisfied with the fandom of
the whole. I am /that/ dissatisfied with Hasbro and Mainframe. I'm actually
that unsure that I can enjoy being there.
I'm reminded of my last entire year on TLY. I kept fighting for things when
I really had no reason to fight. It didn't do anyone any good, nothing got
accomplished, and we all wound up hating one-another. I'm beginning to have
the same feelings about ATT as well, largely due to the 'newbie BM fans',
and I don't want to go through the entire ordeal again.
Why should being a fan of a science-fiction/cartoon/CGI series be about
'winning' or 'losing' ?
Rak...@plumed-serpent.com
George <geo...@coturnix.demon.co.uk> wrote:
(BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
-- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
see how it feels....)
> Oh, and the admin still suck on TLY. ;-)
But *this* bit got back to me, because a friend of mine, also named
George who plays at TLY, made a post to the public bboard on the Mush
about it. Kimakaze-George wishes to assure us that this post is not
from the same person, so there would be no confusion.
Now to take issue with your statement. If you think the admin at TLY
suck, then why not log in and take it up with us, instead of sneaking
off behind our backs and making snippish posts here? I can only speak
highly of my co-workers - I've never seen a group of Mush staffers more
willing to put themselves out to help a player, to settle differences,
and to assist a newbie. If you're having problems, then perhaps you're
not talking to those who can help you, for whatever reason - perhaps
because it's so much easier to just go off and bitch rather than making
an effort to communicate.
Anyone who'd like to check out Lost Years for themselves, feel free to
drop by as a Guest at:
ly.pennmush.org 5000
Or check out our web page at:
Lots of great RP going on, and lots of grand plans for the future.
Hope to see you there!
--Raksha
Black Zarak
> > M "Do You Want Them To WIN?!" Sipher
>
> It's not a question of 'winning' or 'losing'. It's a question of do I even
> want to bother trying this year? I am /that/ dissatisfied with the fandom of
> the whole. I am /that/ dissatisfied with Hasbro and Mainframe. I'm actually
> that unsure that I can enjoy being there.
Well, if your truly dissatisfied with fandom enough not to go to BotCon, then
that's your choice. I personally think that it's silly to not go because you
don't like how fandom has ended up or that the latest TF wasn't up to par with
you. Go because you love TFs, and you want to be with your friends. The other
ass-holes who have it in for you will likely be cowering in the shadows in your
presence because they are a bunch of shit-faced, spineless losers who only like
to talk big behind the safety of their PCs.
> I'm reminded of my last entire year on TLY. I kept fighting for things when
> I really had no reason to fight. It didn't do anyone any good, nothing got
> accomplished, and we all wound up hating one-another. I'm beginning to have
> the same feelings about ATT as well, largely due to the 'newbie BM fans',
> and I don't want to go through the entire ordeal again.
I think the problem is that you get too involved in everything and feel you need
to justify yourself when it isn't necessary. Your trying to make yourself into a
martyr. As much as you would like to believe, you can't change people.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of 'newbie BM fans' who do not know how to
behave, but the only thing you can do is just try and deal with it or ignore it.
Trying to combat the problem to the extent that you have and letting it get to
you only makes matters worse, especially for yourself.
> Why should being a fan of a science-fiction/cartoon/CGI series be about
> 'winning' or 'losing' ?
That's good question. I often have wondered that myself. I just wish people
would just stop bitching so much about why they don't like this or that.
Shit, if people put as much effort into more important things in life, rather
than in their strong TF "beliefs" of how things *should* be, so much could be
accomplished in this world.
Eddie X-Tomb
>
> It's not a question of 'winning' or 'losing'. It's a question of do I even
> want to bother trying this year? I am /that/ dissatisfied with the fandom of
> the whole. I am /that/ dissatisfied with Hasbro and Mainframe. I'm actually
> that unsure that I can enjoy being there.
I don't know, Neale. I mean, even if you don't like bmach, that doesn't
make everything that came before nonexistant. I mean, I'm sure there
will be plenty of g1 and bw related things at botcon to hold your
interest. I mean, (if I had the money), I would goto a trek convention
even though the current show, voyager, is pretty bad in my opinion. It
doesn't negate the existsnace of the orignal series, ds9, next gen, etc.
As for the "fandom as a whole", I don't understand why whether you do or
do not like tf fandom should make you not want to go. I mean, speaking
for myself, I like TFs for myself only. If i meet people who like them
too, then that's fine. But even if I hated eveyone who was into TFs, it
wouldn't affect my opinion of TFs themselves, and I would still want to
goto something like botcon(again if I could afford it).
-Eddie X-T
Thylacine 2000
*snipped*
Neale, if you *don't* go to Botcon, I'll kick your ass. :)
George
<URL:mailto:TFN...@home.com> wrote:
> > M "Do You Want Them To WIN?!" Sipher
>
> It's not a question of 'winning' or 'losing'. It's a question of do I even
> want to bother trying this year? I am /that/ dissatisfied with the fandom of
> the whole. I am /that/ dissatisfied with Hasbro and Mainframe. I'm actually
> that unsure that I can enjoy being there.
Why, pray tell, continue to be on the ng? When I get disheartened
for some reason...I take a breather. I come back and often find things
aren't quite so bad.
There's a line in Doctor Who: The Fearmonger (an excellent double-CD
audio story, about an alien creature using a fascist party in
it's plan to harvest fear from humans) that people don't listen to
the words: they listen to the noise. Go to my "Spoiler Space & ATT
Conduct" post and ignore the noise about my non-ecstatic views on
the US: read the words about treating others on the net, about
tone in posts, etc. Not that I'm saying you're a major nuisance,
but sometimees when things get like this (most of your recent posts seem
to be on the topic of your lack of appreciation for BM) you have to
be careful to ensure you come out well.
> I'm reminded of my last entire year on TLY. I kept fighting for things when
> I really had no reason to fight. It didn't do anyone any good, nothing got
> accomplished, and we all wound up hating one-another. I'm beginning to have
> the same feelings about ATT as well, largely due to the 'newbie BM fans',
> and I don't want to go through the entire ordeal again.
Well, don't. Seriously, Neale, don't. I know what it's like
to have a passion (such as my feelings about spoiler space,
caused mostly by the fact I need it for most eps) but sometimes
you have to throw in the towel, to say, "Fine! Let the slaggers
rot!" It can be hard, but when you feel strongly on an issue
you have to be careful on who gets a sample of your views.
When in doubt, get someone else to read your post first and see
how it looks...usually they can show you flaws in your logic
that you might miss. I know for a fact that won't be a problem for
you. :-)
> Why should being a fan of a science-fiction/cartoon/CGI series be about
> 'winning' or 'losing' ?
It shouldn't. Being a PRAT who is a fan of a science-fiction
/cartoon/CGI series who gives threats to other fans...different
kettle of sharkticons. :-)
Joona I Palaste
: Anyone who'd like to check out Lost Years for themselves, feel free to
: drop by as a Guest at:
: ly.pennmush.org 5000
Hmmm... so all I have to do is establish a TCP connection to the server
whose DNS name is "ly.pennmush.org", port 5000? I do a lot of network-
related programming in my work. Maybe I should write a Java daemon tht
automatically plays TLY for me? The communications would be easy,
creating a sufficiently clever AI algorithm would be much harder. =)
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"There's no business like slow business."
- Tailgunner
George
<URL:mailto:Rak...@plumed-serpent.com> wrote:
> In article <ant04180...@coturnix.demon.co.uk>,
> George <geo...@coturnix.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
> -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
> see how it feels....)
Sometimes, it's hard to understand how OBVIOUS it is to a
person that they are right until, well, you become OBVIOUSLY right
yourself. :-)
> > Oh, and th
e admin still suck on TLY. ;-)
>
> But *this* bit got back to me, because a friend of mine, also named
> George who plays at TLY, made a post to the public bboard on the Mush
> about it. Kimakaze-George wishes to assure us that this post is not
> from the same person, so there would be no confusion.
Kimikaze-George and Copyright-George (or George II, to the old
TMUK crew) may have the same nationality, but are indeed very different souls.
But I take offence that, in this post, he says...
"Would all readers of the newsgrp ATT please carefully take note of this. Someone
has posted some rather unpleseant stuff under the guise of myself. I have never
used ATT, in fact my ISP (Pipex) doesn't even support newsgrps. It's actually a
DIFFERENT George, someone else from here :) So don't blame me for it, kay? -The
real KIM-"
I accept that I am not a regular face on TLY, but I made no claim
I was Britol-George. In fact, Neale (whom, while we are on an ng,
was the primary person I wrote the post for) knows fine well that
Scottish-George is a different char, whom he regularly hung out/was
pestered by. So, who exactly is doing the "bitching"? True. I am
not happy with ATT, but assuming someone with the same name but a
CLEARLY marked different email, sig, home town etc is trying to
impersonate you is going a little over the top. Hell, if I wanted
to impersonate this George, I could so pretty effectivly. One of the
evil things I learned on ATT during the "Joe Bradford/About Blue Jackal"
saga. Bad times. :-(
Oh, and another thing...apart from the comment on TLY admin,
what else is "unpleseant stuff" in my posts? True, I am getting a
bit carried away here with my discussion with Neale, but I'm
hardly posting, "My names George and I think you're al ^&)£heads",
am I?
But, that's beside the point...
> Now to take issue with your statement. If you think the admin at TLY
> suck, then why not log in and take it up with us,
Because...I don't really hate you? I was hoping the winking smiley
would show that I didn't feel this way, but that because Neale had
argued with the TLY admin a lot in the past, and I had recently,
he'd appreciate the joke. He doesn't hate the admin: nor do I.
We certainly have disagreed a lot recently, in many cases I have left
TLY no longer feeling as happy as I used to be. But I know this is
not a long-term problem, nor is it the whole admin: I have only really
argued with three of the rather large staff, and am quite friendly
with many others. Like I said, it was a joke I hoped he'd get: it was
a bit too obscure, however, so many people might have misinterpreted it.
So, to make it clear: I have disagreed a bit recently with TLY admin.
In fact, one or two admin ibn paticular seem to work on opposing
wavelengths. But I hardly hate them: rather, we just seem
is a purely non-MUSH thing (the femme issue: I ain't questioning their
existance on the MUSH, I'm questioning it in the TF universe in
general. Much like one might question on a channel the Combaticon's
strength without necesarilly dissin' the MUSHes Combaticon characters)
but we still managed to spam the public channel over it. But I don't
object to the admin personally: my problem is with their views, not
them.
> instead of sneaking
> off behind our backs and making snippish posts here? I can only speak
> highly of my co-workers - I've never seen a group of Mush staffers more
> willing to put themselves out to help a player, to settle differences,
> and to assist a newbie. If you're having problems, then perhaps you're
> not talking to those who can help you, for whatever reason - perhaps
> because it's so much easier to just go off and bitch rather than making
> an effort to communicate.
It's communicating that seems to get me into trouble on TLY, actually:
trying to solve the problem just gets me more angst as I am told
to shut up, rather than actually getting any reasons for why
I'm incorrect. But I still don't hate the staff: just as I don't
hate my maths teacher, it's just sometimes she kicks my aft.
But usually, a week or two later I'm talking to her about Canadian
towns without a care. :-)
M Sipher
news:FfzQ4.45840$fF5.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
> > M "Do You Want Them To WIN?!" Sipher
>
> It's not a question of 'winning' or 'losing'. It's a question of do I even
> want to bother trying this year? I am /that/ dissatisfied with the fandom
of
> the whole. I am /that/ dissatisfied with Hasbro and Mainframe. I'm
actually
> that unsure that I can enjoy being there.
Hey, *I'M* honked at the fandom in general. But I'm going to BtoCon. Why?
Because there's gonna be key people there I wish to meet. I don't go to
BotCon for the fans in general. I go rather specifically for those I know
and like, and perchance meet some others.
Because there's gonna be NEAT SHIT THERE! There's gonna be stuff for me to
buy! I go to further MY collection... and not just TFs. Last year I walked
out with considerably cool items for my RockMan/MegaMan collection.
Because I love long car trips, and need a vacation anyway.
> Why should being a fan of a science-fiction/cartoon/CGI series be about
> 'winning' or 'losing' ?
Depends on who you're playing against. And in the case of pinheads who like
to make threats they'd never actually follow up on over the net, I'd say
it's DEFIANTELY worth winning.
M "But Fine, Don't Go. You'll Be Missing A Real Bash" Sipher
Cyclonus
opinion?? This is North America right??..All because of a useless TF series
gone putrid. Well.....Neale....dont worry.....its just a show (a toilet one
at that), just move on.
People, opinions are like a-holes...everyone has one. I dont like BM
either.....but I LOVE ALL TF's, regardless of what theatre they appeared in.
Threats againts another person for no useful reason demonstrate a lack of
humanity. No one here is a child molester, or killer. Its just toys....but
a touchy topic I must admit.
skir....you suck.........but I like the Hasbro toys anyway.
--
Cyclonus
"Neale Davidson" <TFN...@home.com> wrote in message
news:2UgQ4.44648$fF5.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
> > Neale, do you really think those threats can be taken seriously?
> > Consider the source. I don't think anyone would really have the
> > guts to even think of trying anything as long as there is a crowd
> > of 1.000 people around at any given moment. And if someone
> > did, well, I know we wouldn't just stand by and watch it happen.
> > At least I wouldn't.
>
> Do I think the threats mean much? No. Does it really ruin the key
> point of being there for me? Yes. I don't WANT to go someplace
> where a bunch of Skir-sucking sycophants think it's kosher to threaten
> and harass me, even if there are people there I want to see otherwise,
> and things I want to do.
>
> To be honest.. how can I enjoy it when part of me WANTS to confront
> these people who make the threats... who harass me constantly.. who
> justify anything they do as 'you have it coming 'cause you don't like
> Beast Machines'. It would be hell for me... I've got too much a 'payback'
> streak in me to risk it.
>
> I simply could not have a good time because I would be biting my tongue
> the entire weekend.
>
White Dove
year I've really had a good chance of going. I intend to avoid any BM stuff
there and just focus on filling in the gaps to my G1 and BW collections and
talking to a few people I know from online.
White Dove
The Terrorcon Page: http://www.angelfire.com/wv/terrorcon/index.html
My main TF page (which still needs a name...):
http://members.xoom.com/WDoveX/index.htm
Toybox Toys and Collectables:
http://toybox.virtualave.net/
Thylacine 2000
> (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
> -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
> see how it feels....)
Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand on that notion somewhat? I
honestly don't see much comparable between the shift from G1 to BW and the
shift from BW to BM. Each transition is only comparable because...... it
involves a transiton of some kind, period. That doesn't make the two
immediately equivalent in my book. Just because dramatic changes have
taken place does not mean that each set of changes is somehow similar.
And regardless, what's amusing about becoming aware of the fact that many
long-term fans are now dissatisfied and disappointed, for whatever reason?
--
T T T
Random Cartoon Quote of the Day (from memory!):
"Obey me: Wario! I am your master, Mario is your enemy! Obey Wario!
Destroy Mario!"
--Wario, "Wario Land" commercial
Eddie X-Tomb
> Threats againts another person for no useful reason demonstrate a lack of
> humanity. No one here is a child molester, or killer.
How do you know? The unabomber could be posting from prison.
-Eddie
Eddie X-Tomb
>
> Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
>
> > (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
> > -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
> > see how it feels....)
>
> Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand on that notion somewhat? I
> honestly don't see much comparable between the shift from G1 to BW and the
> shift from BW to BM. Each transition is only comparable because...... it
> involves a transiton of some kind, period. That doesn't make the two
> immediately equivalent in my book. Just because dramatic changes have
> taken place does not mean that each set of changes is somehow similar.
>
> And regardless, what's amusing about becoming aware of the fact that many
> long-term fans are now dissatisfied and disappointed, for whatever reason?
George has a big hang up about spoilers. He's convinced that all
americans refuse to put spoiler space because we're all greedy
capitalists and he would know cuz he heard that's how we are, right?
Never mind the fact that the vast majoroty of americans on ATT do put
spoiler space. Anyway, I think that's what his "now you know how it
feels" thing means, but who knows with that guy.
-Eddie
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Aaron F. Bourque
No I'm not---Uh, I mean no HE'S not.
Yeah.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque
--
Being grown up all the time is only a sign of immaturity.
Come on, people! Grow up! Act stupid!
Thylacine 2000
> > Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
> >
> > > (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
> > > -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
> > > see how it feels....)
> >
> > Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand on that notion somewhat? I
> > honestly don't see much comparable between the shift from G1 to BW and the
> > shift from BW to BM. Each transition is only comparable because...... it
> > involves a transiton of some kind, period. That doesn't make the two
> > immediately equivalent in my book. Just because dramatic changes have
> > taken place does not mean that each set of changes is somehow similar.
> >
> George has a big hang up about spoilers. .... Anyway, I think that's what his
> "now you know how it
> feels" thing means, but who knows with that guy.
Good Lord! You're saying Raksha is George? This.... why, this changes
*everything*!
<Raksha> I've been tricking you all along. I secretly like the Autobots more.
Really. :-)
Zobovor
>Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
>
>> (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
>> -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
>> see how it feels....)
>
>Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand on that notion
>somewhat? I honestly don't see much comparable between the shift
>from G1 to BW and the shift from BW to BM.
It's simple, friend. In this context, it's a radical departure from what the
fans knew, changing to something many people quite disliked.
>And regardless, what's amusing about becoming aware of the fact that
>many long-term fans are now dissatisfied and disappointed, for
>whatever reason?
Because Raksha has been flamed repeatedly for her strong feelings against Beast
Wars, much in the same way Neale has about Beast Machines. What she's
basically saying here, I believe, is, "See how it feels when *your* favorite
show is completely turned on its ear and they ruin everything that was good
about it." In fact, you could make a stronger case for the shift from BW to BM
being more of a potential pisser-offer, since BM is clearly meant to be a
*direct* continuation of BW, whereas BW was only distantly related to G1.
I honestly can't say I blame her for chuckling a bit at what's happened here.
Maybe some of the people who got on her case for hating BW will see things in a
new light, if they look at BM in much the same way Raksha used to talk about
BW...
>"Obey me: Wario! I am your master, Mario is your enemy! Obey
>Wario! Destroy Mario!"
> --Wario, "Wario Land" commercial
I loved that commercial. I still recite it to my sister sometimes. He had
nasty green drool! Icky.
Kil - Michael Kilborn McCarthy
:::: Thylacine 2000 wrote:
>Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
>
>> (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
>> -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
>> see how it feels....)
>
>Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand on that notion
>somewhat? ::::
Um, I don't think Raksha really even reads ATT, so you're probably not
gonna get an answer from her here.
:::: >I honestly don't see much comparable between the shift
>from G1 to BW and the shift from BW to BM.
It's simple, friend. In this context, it's a radical departure from what the
fans knew, changing to something many people quite disliked. ::::
Errr, what Zobovor said, which is what I was about to say, but he already
said it, so now I don't have to say it.
:::: Maybe some of the people who got on her case for hating BW will see
things in a new light, if they look at BM in much the same way Raksha
used to talk about BW... ::::
Well, on a somewhat related note, while I have always respected that
everyone has their own personal interpretation of TF canon, I think I
can understand Raksha's considering the movie and post-movie episodes
of G1 as taking place in a different universe then the pre-movie stuff a
little better now. I certainly can't see Beast Machines as taking place in
the same universe as Beast Wars, even though "officially", it does.
:::: >"Obey me: Wario! I am your master, Mario is your enemy! Obey
>Wario! Destroy Mario!"
> --Wario, "Wario Land" commercial
I loved that commercial. ::::
Me too! I wanna Mario Brothers movie sequel with Wario as the villian!!
-Kil
ok, maybe not....
-------------
Michael Kilborn McCarthy
M Kil M...@aol.com
formerly Wazzp...@aol.com
The Kil File: http://hometown.aol.com/mkilmcc
"Sa souvraya niende misain ye. I am lost in my own mind."
-Mat Cauthon "The Shadow Rising" by Robert Jordan
George
I
A
M
T
R
A
N
S
F
O
R
M
E
D
!
In article <s%kQ4.44845$fF5.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>, Neale Davidson
<URL:mailto:TFN...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > You have a questionable grip on facts. "The writing is bad" is not a
> fact, it's
> > an opinion, yet you weren't too nice with your treatment of that today.
> "BM Cheetor is
> > ugly" is an opinon, not a fact, yet in the early days of BM it was hard
> convincing
> > you (or your family. :-) ) of that.
>
> Look at BM Cheetor again! He's factually UGLY! :>
Heh. Well, I have an uncommonly strong liking
for all Cheetor's toys: not because I see them
on the show, since I liked TM 2 Cheetor four months
before seeing him on da show and even then, I can't
say he impressed me there.
> As for some points, I do take issues with people telling me my opnion is
> /wrong/.
Yeah, but I hate to break it to you, but you seem to do the same
thing.
***Collect And Save***
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 05:43:29 GMT
From: Neale Davidson <TFN...@home.com>
Subject: Re: Beast Machines Season 3 Petition
> It'll be sad if there's no more Transformers show, sure Beast Machines
could
> be better but nothing is worse.
No. I would rather have no Transformers show on the air than another
Power Rangers rip off. Kill Beast Machines already, and move on to
another show that may actually be GOOD.
**********************
You are seriously teling me you forced that bitter wad of text down
the throat of the original poster because you thought they were "telling
me my opnion is /wrong/"?
> But even then the most heated 'debates' come not from the reviews,
> but from things like 'Nightscream said 'Robot' derisively', which is a fact
> in the show.
Well, since I missed that bit watching "Forbidden Fruit" (it could be further
on in Bm, but with a whole two eps under my belt...) I'll take it as fact.
But still, you harass
> > That is plain untrue. Today, when people remarked on how BM's changes
> were good
> > and they liked the writing, you basically did nothing but say, "No, you
> see, it's
> > THIS way." Which is no help at all.
>
> Look at the specific posts that I responded to.
I have. Recently, I can see BM "sheep", as you call them,
causing trouble, but most of the time it's people who just
seem to differ from your opinion. But then again, if you'd been
on ATT last year at this time all you'd have seen of me is
posts saying, "I don't fancy Anni! I made that clear months ago!"
:-)
> Also, when I respond to BM's
> changes - it's because those changes come at a detriment of seeing anything
> like G1, or even BW, ever again. I won't go into this more, because of
> spoilers.
Does it? Really? Weren't Action Masters accused of this, as was BW in it's
time? Things change, it's the only true constant in life. If they are as
bad as you say, they change back: for example, the Action Master "elites"
with the TFing ability back. Which did not stop G2 appearing. If, meanwhile,
BM is popular enough, then you may see plenty of new stories set in our post-BM
world that can be just as entertaining as G1 stories: which, while mature for the
80's (Dark Awakening rocks!) had it's fair share of cheese. Auto-Bop, The Girl
Who Loved Powerglide, Nightmare Planet, etc.
And, of course, nothing stops a TF prologue appearing at some point.
300 years was missed out of TF history between G1 and BW, and the whole
point of the TLY MUSH is that there is 4 million years to set the adventures
in on Cybertron. Why couldn't that be the setting for later stories?
> As for the writing. I /do/ consider it sub-par.
I never said you didn't
> Even for Skir's other work.
> I actually /can/ point out 'factual' observations for the writing faults in
> the show. In many cases, I do just that.
How exactly do you do this? How do you factually prove the writing
is worse? What facts make me like "Macbeth" more than "Romeo and Juliet",
"Aliens" more than "The Terminator"? You have me interested: show me
this proof.
> But then, I forget, I'm just not allowed to critique, am I?
Neale, it's all about attitude. Something the above sentence shows
may be a sticking point. You can't leap in on everyone who likes BM:
just as I can't leap in on everyone who uses spoiler space in a way
I don't like (i.e. they don't.) You gotta act as you say you do and
only go for the ones who are blatantly "BM rulez!" and even then, how
do you plan on changing anything.
> > So, you assault all BM fans who, well, like it? You think this justifies
> it?
> > You think because a fat American women pushed me once I should push all
> Americans
> > out my way?
>
> I don't assault all BM fans. There are certain types of BM fans that I
> cannot stand, and, truth be said, I can't stand those types of fans for
> anything else, either. I want to slap around all those people who want to
> keep Star Trek: Voyager on the air just because it has the words 'Star Trek'
> in the title. I want to slap around all those Decepticon fans who HAVE to
> revise canon to suit their point of views. I want to slap around the people
> who post 'G1 RULEZ! and BW SUX' whenever I see them.
Point taken: people who can't face opposing opinions are bad. But then, that's
what you're doing in this thread, and what others say I'm doing in another.
(Although in that thread, my point is they face handle that I can't face
their opinion, but we're getting too zen there)
> When I posted my /very/ hard critique of Reformatting, I recieved over 100
> emails that night. Nearly eighty percent of them were from the same six or
> seven people telling me what they were going to do to me at Botcon. Ten
> percent were in full agreement with me, and ten percent were by people who
> disagreed with me.
So, six or seven people more hate you. Neale, do you have any idea
how many threats I've had in my life? Or, in fact, how often other people
get threats? True, it only takes one death threat to come true
> To this day, the latter twenty percent there I've never had cause to deal
> with. The former group, however, STILL do their little attacks, their
> threats, what have you.
Threats, Neale. Because of how you've implied these people act
to say "attack" inplies they actually have struck out in more than
just insults. The English language is a tool to be treated finely. :-)
> And, frankly, they're the ones being so vehement
> against me now. This is a really stupid issue to be a martyr over, and
> that's not what I'm going for.
"martyr"? Neale, stop. Think. Who actually knows what you look like,
could spot you in a crowd, could do these deeds? I guarantee the same
empty threats were made in the early BW era with NO "martyr" required?
> What I /really/ want is for one of the zealots to say 'You know, I really
> disagree with you, here's why, but it's just a matter of taste." But that's
> asking too much.
*cough* Look over some of your latest posts, Neale, and try and tell me
this is what you've done. A little quote or two would shut me up as well.
> > Face it, Neale, you have to be a bad guy to someone. And frankly, if you
> > go out doing what I percieve you to do (not what you necesarilly DO...)
> then
> > you aren't going to do anything but look like the guy who draws first.
> Not
> > many of them are good.
>
> I counterpunch more than punch.
If you'd been paying attention to G1 long enough to see more than just the
differences between it and BM, you may have learned this isn't necesarilly
a good thing, that counterpunching can be just as bad. But even then...
***Collect And Save***
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 12:02:06 GMT
From: Neale Davidson <TFN...@home.com>
Subject: Re: Skir death threats and Ep 26 (Spoilers)
> And this is why Skir is a good writer.
What? Sometimes I wonder what series that you've been watching? The
writing on Beast Machines has been sub-par at best. Endless and
repetitive chast scenes. Endless exposition. Angst overdoses. Cheesy
dialogue, at best. Mindless villains.
It's Superfriends meets Power Rangers meets the worst bits of Reboot.
Considering FOX has publically reconsidered even SHOWING season II
due to its atrocious ratings, I can't be the only one who feels that way.
I mean.. a Transformers show where the basic premise is that all
machines are guns are evil?! Give me a smeggin' break!
**********************
The chap here posted quite a long post, explaining all his
actions, never acting like the "sheep" you object so much to.
Yet you harass the guy's well-thought out post in, what,
five mintues max? All you do is hit him with pseudo-facts
(such as the FOX ratings, which while you may have heard them
on TV no-one seems to have found yet), twist Skir's words (he
said his heroes weren't relying on guns, not that they couldn't
use them, nor is it a basic premise) and defile the word "smeg". :-)
> Truth is, even though I don't like Skir's
> handling of Beast Machines, and I HATE his web page (Renaud, you don't
> realize how much damage you've done) I wouldn't even be mean to the guy. I
> think he did his job, but never had the enthusiasm for it that Bob and Larry
> developed. I wouldn't mind talking to him about the industry, and some
> inside things about how he reacted to the fans and the board and yadda.
Absolutly. I too would enjoy chatting to him about the chaos he caused.
:-)
> > That's the point. Someone says they like BM and why. You say that's
> wrong.
> > NOBODY CARES. You can't change someone's personal opinion like that. You
> can't
> > say, "No, it's THIS way!" and expect anything from it when it's a "I like
> X thing"
> > post. Just...LIVE WITH IT!.
>
> I /don't/ post to every 'I like Beast Machines' thread. There's no point.
> For people who like the show, I'm glad they had something to like.
You coild have fooled me. The guy liked Skir's style and you
just tore him apart.
> It's when
> the more long-term aspects of the franchise, either the toys or mythos, are
> discussed I will join in with the discussion.
You could have fooled me. The afore mentioned " And this is why Skir is a good writer."
post talked in detail about why BM's changes were good, yet didn't question
it's future except to say that the TF's would live on as long as remembered
them, and that some people thought it was the end/beginning. That was justification
to blow him out of the sky?
> > Really? I can identify with it, but again you have to stop
> > thinking "They're asking for it!" and let it be. By continuously
> > trying to, well, brainwash people, all you do is build yourself up for BM
> > what Raksha is for BW.
>
> There are so many jokes I can make here.. but Raksha's mad enough at me
> already...
I also, because I think Uproar is wrong on a couple of counts. :-)
> > What utter nonsense you do talk. The same was said for Beast Wars before
> it, but
> > did anyone do so....NO! Creating ATTCM simply divided the fandom more, it
> didn't
> > solve the problem. BM is on-topic here and will never be off-topic: you
> can not demand
> > anything of the sort, anyhoo.
>
> Different mindsets, actually. For Beast Wars, I didn't want to see ATTCM
> created, I wanted a seperate newsgroup created for Beast Wars. I always
> thought that would have been better as a way for 'classic fans' to give
> Beast Wars fans a freer forum to discuss their favorite series.
Oh, so the one YOU prefer would remain the pure one. What a coincidence.
I hate to break it to you, but I'm a Transformers fan. Not G1. Not BW. Not
BM. Not cartoon. Not comic. Not toys. Transformers. This doesn't make me a
sheep: it makes me someone who likes the Transformers mythos in general and
wants to discuss it in general. True, I prefer G1 because I grew up with it,
but unlike so many people here I know when I've got my rose-tinted glasses
on. Things just have to keep changing: that was the point of BM, that
the universe cannot remain stagnant.
> It would
> still be on topic for ATT, of course, but they could be happier in the new
> group, and new fans would be much more likely to fit in. For Beast Machines,
> I pretty much envisioned the same thing.
Well, no-one is stopping you creating it. But you know what? No-one would care.
Cyber-Raptor once tried to create an alt.fan.beastwars. Which is going WAY
further than even Raksha did, as she kept ATTCM on the same "family" as ATT.
> > They do, though. First BW is "sacrilage", then PCC can't have Earthy
> > names which are (a) less earth than "real" G1 names and (b) aren't that
> > Earthy, since many sources since G1 cartoon/comic show Cybertron to have
> > some sort of organic life, now...
>
> I'm NOT going to talk bad about TLY, though. I had problems there, yeah,
> largely for my caustic attitude, and I admit it.
Then is it that hard ot admit it isn't helping here either?
Oh, and several of them are my friends as well. I can argue
with people and still like them, you know.
George
<URL:mailto:mart...@idt.net> wrote:
> Thylacine 2000 wrote:
> >
> > Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
> >
> > > (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to me
> > > -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get to
> > > see how it feels....)
> >
> > honestly don't see much comparable between the shift from G1 to BW and the
> > involves a transiton of some kind, period. That doesn't make the two
> > immediately equivalent in my book. Just because dramatic changes have
> > taken place does not mean that each set of changes is somehow similar.
> >
> > long-term fans are now dissatisfied and disappointed, for whatever reason?
>
Try and prove to me you can see things from other points of view.
> He's convinced that all
> americans refuse to put spoiler space because we're all greedy
> capitalists and he would know cuz he heard that's how we are, right?
You really miss the point with such accuracy you could hit the
electron of a hydrogen atom. That was one of MANY points I made,
twisted because if you say it the way I said it, it makes sense,
and wasn't even the core point of my post.
> Never mind the fact that the vast majoroty of americans on ATT do put
> spoiler space.
Yes. FOR A MONTH OR TWO. You really didn't read my post,
did ya? You just looked at it. There's a difference.
> Anyway, I think that's what his "now you know how it
> feels" thing means, but who knows with that guy.
No it doesn't, as Zobovor pointed out: it's to do with her
feelings on BW. I'm sorry, maybe we should write a history
lesson on the MUSH.
Joona I Palaste
: In article <3913B5...@idt.net>, Eddie X-Tomb
: <URL:mailto:mart...@idt.net> wrote:
:> Never mind the fact that the vast majoroty of americans on ATT do put
:
: Yes. FOR A MONTH OR TWO. You really didn't read my post,
: did ya? You just looked at it. There's a difference.
Exactly my point of view. If it weren't for my mother and her husband,
who got cable TV in the late 1980s (and thus enabled me to watch the
British Sky channel), I'd still demand spoiler space for G1 season 1.
Some Americans might think the whole world has seen a Transformers
episode after it's been 2 months since its USA debut - it's now been
192 months since "More than meets the eye: part 1" debuted in the USA
and Finnish television still hasn't shown even the intro.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"I am not very happy acting pleased whenever prominent scientists overmagnify
intellectual enlightenment."
- Anon
Recharge
history (at least the biggest in a short period of time I've
found in my Deja research). I do hope this all calms down in
the next month.
On to other things, in defense of Neale, I stated to him I did
like Skir's and co. style and generally enjoyed the series, he
did not say I was wrong nor was I a sheep, but stated how
strongly he felt the other way, while conceding my right to
enjoy whatever I liked. I have no problem with this.
Is Neale allowed an opinion? Absolutely. Is he a bit harsh in
his defense of said opinions? I'd say so. Did he and other
people greatly overreact to a stupid FAQ page time and time
again? I think so. Should Neale go to Botcon? Absolutely.
I'd bet a paycheck NO ONE will even say a bad word to his face,
much less get physical. Internet courage seems to disappear
IRL. I'm sure Raksha's received more than her share of threats
and what not, but she still made every convention to date, and
hasn't had any problems.
Neale, continue to say your opinions, continue to hate the show,
its your right and I'm not gonna try to change your opinion.
However, I think watching your wording and intent, especially
now that everything you say will be scrutinized, would be a good
idea.
This will be my last post on one of these threads, from now on
just the regular silly stuff from me, with occasional story
related opinions.
Recharge
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Thylacine 2000
> Some Americans might think the whole world has seen a Transformers
> episode after it's been 2 months since its USA debut - it's now been
> 192 months since "More than meets the eye: part 1" debuted in the USA
> and Finnish television still hasn't shown even the intro.
Then they obviously never will, and by that extension there's no reason to
believe you'll ever see it unless you take the personal initiative to acquire a
copy yourself through the market. We have no way of knowing whether or not you
will take this initiative, and either way it doesn't matter. You're never going
to see the episodes on TV, therefore we have no obligation not to spoil it for
you. If somebody was never going to see "Empire Strikes Back," then there's no
reason not to spoil the whole Vader thing for them.
I see spoilerspace as extending only to episodes that *are* meant to be viewed in
a certain market and that the viewing audience will indeed have a realistic
opportunity of seeing. Thus it is wrong for people to spoil BM season 2 for
those in North America who haven't got YTV. However, spoiling "More than Meets
the Eye" in the year 2000 for people in Finland is not only inevitable, but also
inoffensive. By this point in time, it is not the responsibility of any official
broadcasting body to present such episodes to you, and thus also not the
responsibility of the contemporary viewing fandom to keep relevant information
away from you.
Last I heard, BW season 3 was not going to be shown in Europe. Now, should the
people who have already seen the episodes continue to use spoilerspace for the
benefit of the European market? Remember, the episodes may *never* go there.
Ever. Five years from now, ten years from now..... whatever. I'm sorry, but
there comes a point when people must either accept that they'll never see
something, or take quick action to ensure that they see it presently of their own
volition. And until that happens, if someone is outside of the normal viewing
market of a show, I think the idea of permanent spoilerspace is futile. If BW
season 3 has shown in all the markets that official bodies intended for it, then
as far as I'm concerned it's fair game. BM season 2 is still intended for an
upcoming screening in the U.S., and as such has not completed its intended run
and been viewed by all its prospective audience, so it is still subject to
spoilerspace.
If Beast Machines were planned to be exported to the Ukraine in 2002, I could
totally understand sustaining spoilerspace until 2002 when the Ukrainian
broadcasting venue got a chance to show the episodes the way they were meant to
be seen. Until that happens, though, Ukrainian Transfans are just on their own.
TTT, and there's gotta be at least *one*.... right?
--
T T T
Random Cartoon Quote of the Day (from memory!):
"Obey me: Wario! I am your master, Mario is your enemy! Obey Wario! Destroy
The Doc.
>
> >"Obey me: Wario! I am your master, Mario is your enemy! Obey
> >Wario! Destroy Mario!"
> > --Wario, "Wario Land" commercial
>
> I loved that commercial. I still recite it to my sister sometimes. He had
> nasty green drool! Icky.
That was phlegm. Wario was fond of dairy products.
SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself
wrote...
> Zobovor (zob...@aol.com) wrote....
> :::: Thylacine 2000 wrote:
>
> >Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
> >
> > > (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly
> > > uninteresting to me -- except that I'm dying of
> > > laughter to see how some fans now get to see
> > > how it feels....)
> >
> > Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand
>
> Um, I don't think Raksha really even reads ATT, so you're
> probably not gonna get an answer from her here.
She obviously reads enough of ATT to see that post out of
many, many others and took the time to respond to that,
though. :)
--
Rikard Bakke
Swo...@xoommail.com
The Cybertron Chronicle
http://members.xoom.com/Swoop73/
Transformers Code
G++ FR FW+ #72 D+ AA+ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC98+ BC99+ BC2000 CN+++ OM+
Kil - Michael Kilborn McCarthy
:::: As predicted, the end of BM caused the biggest in-war in ATT
history (at least the biggest in a short period of time I've
Fictional Universes don't cause problems within their fandoms,
_fans_ cause problems within their fandoms.
-Kil
or something to that effect
Aziraphale and his cute Armordillo
of season 3.
On Sat, 06 May 2000 17:50:49 -0700, Thylacine 2000
<gre...@NOSPAMfas.harvard.edu> scribbled:
>"Obey me: Wario! I am your master, Mario is your enemy! Obey Wario! Destroy
>Mario!"
> --Wario, "Wario Land" commercial
>
>
--
Aziraphale, aka Thomas Hamann
Home Page: http://members.xoom.com/tdhamann/ (not ready)
Neutralist, BeastWars & G1 US Comic Fan.
Owner of Ginrai, The Big Hairy Truck of ATT
__________ _ _
|\\\__///| SHOCKWAVE |\_|\/|_/|
|\**||**/| AZIRAPHALE |__|==|__|
|_| || |_| on the ATT-RPG | __\/__ |
| __ | |\ * * /|
\_|__|_/ \_\__/_/
Official owner of the Tailless Skullcruncher NoHeadMaster.
TF Fancode: G+++ FR FW+ M #116 D++ ADA N++++ W++ B+ OP TF2k5- EBC99- BC00-
George
SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself <URL:mailto:Swo...@xoommail.com> wrote:
> "Kil - Michael Kilborn McCarthy" <mki...@aol.commscout1>
> wrote...
> > Zobovor (zob...@aol.com) wrote....
> > :::: Thylacine 2000 wrote:
> >
> > >Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly
> > > > uninteresting to me -- except that I'm dying of
> > > > laughter to see how some fans now get to see
> > > > how it feels....)
> > >
> > > Beg pardon? Do you suppose you could expand
> > on that notion somewhat? ::::
> >
> > Um, I don't think Raksha really even reads ATT, so you're
> > probably not gonna get an answer from her here.
>
> She obviously reads enough of ATT to see that post out of
> many, many others and took the time to respond to that,
> though. :)
Actually, she read it because someone claimed I was impersonating
them and making the "TLY admin suck" comment. Which
I most certainly was not: my email, screen name, sig,
etc are very different from this person. Hell, I've
slagged them off on ATT many a time. ;-) But still, they
moaned about it on the public board on TLY and drew the
attention of Raksha.
George
<URL:mailto:clutchnugg...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> As predicted, the end of BM caused the biggest in-war in ATT
> history (at least the biggest in a short period of time I've
> the next month.
Not really. I could point to a few, but of course it'd be ones
where I was right. :-)
> On to other things, in defense of Neale, I stated to him I did
> like Skir's and co. style and generally enjoyed the series, he
> did not say I was wrong nor was I a sheep, but stated how
> strongly he felt the other way, while conceding my right to
> enjoy whatever I liked. I have no problem with this.
Fair enough. If you don't care, I guess I shouldn't
either.
> Is Neale allowed an opinion? Absolutely. Is he a bit harsh in
> his defense of said opinions? I'd say so. Did he and other
> people greatly overreact to a stupid FAQ page time and time
> again? I think so. Should Neale go to Botcon? Absolutely.
> I'd bet a paycheck NO ONE will even say a bad word to his face,
> much less get physical.
Agreed.
> Internet courage seems to disappear
> IRL. I'm sure Raksha's received more than her share of threats
> and what not, but she still made every convention to date, and
> hasn't had any problems.
Yes, but Raksha has a lot of...personality, yeah. :-)
> Neale, continue to say your opinions, continue to hate the show,
> its your right and I'm not gonna try to change your opinion.
> However, I think watching your wording and intent, especially
> now that everything you say will be scrutinized, would be a good
> idea.
Indeed. Remember the "Bennigans" theory: imagine saying this
to someone's face.
> This will be my last post on one of these threads, from now on
> just the regular silly stuff from me, with occasional story
> related opinions.
Snazzy. :-)
George
<URL:mailto:gre...@NOSPAMfas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Joona I Palaste wrote:
> Last I heard, BW season 3 was not going to be shown in Europe.
Oh? Did you? I haven't heard this: true, it LOOKS like it's over but
there's nothing concrete so far.
> Now, should the
> people who have already seen the episodes continue to use spoilerspace for the
> benefit of the European market? Remember, the episodes may *never* go there.
> Ever.
Yes, but at the the same time they *may* appear in about a months time.
Is it that hard to wait until the English (not Scottish, damn them)
half term? Then I'll be sure it's dead in the water and you can tell
me about Feral Scream as much as you want.
> Five years from now, ten years from now..... whatever. I'm sorry, but
> there comes a point when people must either accept that they'll never see
> something, or take quick action to ensure that they see it presently of their own
> volition.
When it comes, I'll let ya know. :-)
> And until that happens, if someone is outside of the normal viewing
> market of a show, I think the idea of permanent spoilerspace is futile.
So do I. I don't think spoiler space on MTMTE would be...appropriate.
But then, I've seen MTMTE, haven't I? :-)
> If BW
> season 3 has shown in all the markets that official bodies intended for it, then
> as far as I'm concerned it's fair game. BM season 2 is still intended for an
> upcoming screening in the U.S., and as such has not completed its intended run
> and been viewed by all its prospective audience, so it is still subject to
> spoilerspace.
Fair enough. But, as I said, there has been no clear cancelling
message. If there was, I'm just a silly Scotsman who can't read.
:-)
> If Beast Machines were planned to be exported to the Ukraine in 2002, I could
> totally understand sustaining spoilerspace until 2002 when the Ukrainian
> broadcasting venue got a chance to show the episodes the way they were meant to
> be seen. Until that happens, though, Ukrainian Transfans are just on their own.
>
> TTT, and there's gotta be at least *one*.... right?
:-)
SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself
> In article <zv2R4.10533$F3.206...@news.telia.no>,
> SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself <URL:mailto:Swo...@xoommail.com> wrote:
> > She obviously reads enough of ATT to see that post out of
> > many, many others and took the time to respond to that,
> > though. :)
>
> Actually, she read it because someone claimed I was impersonating
> them and making the "TLY admin suck" comment. Which
> I most certainly was not: my email, screen name, sig,
> etc are very different from this person. Hell, I've
> slagged them off on ATT many a time. ;-) But still, they
> moaned about it on the public board on TLY and drew the
> attention of Raksha.
If I'm not mistaken, she has responded to other posts as well
in the wake of her vow never to read the contents of this
"cesspool" again. And she most certainly posts - like her pic
of the month from her calendar. I'm not making a point out
of this because I have anything against her especially - I'm
just always amused by people who say one thing and go
right ahead and do another. :)
Isn't that right, LionDeathWhatever?
--
Rikard Bakke
Swo...@xoommail.com
The Cybertron Chronicle
http://members.xoom.com/Swoop73/
Transformers Fan Code
G++ FR FW+ #72 D+ AA+ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC98++ BC99++ BC2000 CN+++ OM+
Túrin
> Because Raksha has been flamed repeatedly for her strong feelings against Beast
> Wars, much in the same way Neale has about Beast Machines. What she's
> basically saying here, I believe, is, "See how it feels when *your* favorite
> show is completely turned on its ear and they ruin everything that was good
> about it." In fact, you could make a stronger case for the shift from BW to BM
> being more of a potential pisser-offer, since BM is clearly meant to be a
> *direct* continuation of BW, whereas BW was only distantly related to G1.
>
> I honestly can't say I blame her for chuckling a bit at what's happened here.
> new light, if they look at BM in much the same way Raksha used to talk about
> BW...
Yes, but the difference is, Beast Wars was actually good.
Túrin
Radio Free Cybertron
http://rfcybertron.cjb.net/
TF Fanfic and Song Parody Archive
http://knoledge.org/mormegil/
Neale Davidson
> > I honestly can't say I blame her for chuckling a bit at what's happened
here.
> > Maybe some of the people who got on her case for hating BW will see
things in a
> > new light, if they look at BM in much the same way Raksha used to talk
about
> > BW...
>
> Yes, but the difference is, Beast Wars was actually good.
Now now, you know better to say that. ;) Beast Wars was simply 'different',
and there
will be ... oh who am I kidding, anyway? ;P
White Cat
> > I mean.. a Transformers show where the basic premise is that all
> > machines are guns are evil?! Give me a smeggin' break!
>
> **********************
>
> The chap here posted quite a long post, explaining all his
> actions, never acting like the "sheep" you object so much to.
> Yet you harass the guy's well-thought out post in, what,
> five mintues max? All you do is hit him with pseudo-facts
> (such as the FOX ratings, which while you may have heard them
> on TV no-one seems to have found yet), twist Skir's words (he
> said his heroes weren't relying on guns, not that they couldn't
> use them, nor is it a basic premise) and defile the word "smeg". :-)
Okay, please enlighten me as to what "smeg" means.
.'.
|\ _|_|_ /|
|\ ,-' .|. `-. /| White Cat, who needed to keep this post
\`-._,'|'._,-'/ from being nothing but a "me too".
|`-.|_(_)_|,-'|
/|| o | o ||\
\|'.__.|.__.'|/ The White Cat Network
\|== | ==|/ http://www.white-cat.net/
`---|_|---'
White Cat
>
> Rak...@plumed-serpent.com wrote:
>
> > (BM nonsense snipped, as it's totally and utterly uninteresting to
> > me -- except that I'm dying of laughter to see how some fans now get
> > to see how it feels....)
>
> many long-term fans are now dissatisfied and disappointed, for
> whatever reason?
Because Beast Wars fans suck and don't deserve any form of happiness. :>
-- White Cat
Duo Maxwell
"White Cat" <whit...@NOSPAMwhite-cat.net> wrote in message
news:3917E23C...@NOSPAMwhite-cat.net...
I take it you are quoting Raksha there?
I don't care what she thinks anyhow.
She wants the Decepticons to suck.
They are not good guys, but mean evil bastards you love to Boo!!
George
Hoo-rah! :-)
> > > I mean.. a Transformers show where the basic premise is that all
> > > machines are guns are evil?! Give me a smeggin' break!
> >
> > **********************
> >
> > The chap here posted quite a long post, explaining all his
> > actions, never acting like the "sheep" you object so much to.
> > Yet you harass the guy's well-thought out post in, what,
> > five mintues max? All you do is hit him with pseudo-facts
> > (such as the FOX ratings, which while you may have heard them
> > on TV no-one seems to have found yet), twist Skir's words (he
> > said his heroes weren't relying on guns, not that they couldn't
> > use them, nor is it a basic premise) and defile the word "smeg". :-)
>
> Okay, please enlighten me as to what "smeg" means.
(Throws Red Dwarf videos at White cat) :-)
Well, no-one knows for sure, but the BBC executive who invented
it used it to describe the brown rust-stuff one finds on a bike
after continued use. I happen to know a friend of the chap: which
makes me doubt the validity of the story. :-) But this friend of
mine, David Woods, (who does tech-stuff for the BBC) went to a
recording studio and was talking about a music players obvious
drug-taking, calling him a "Smeg Head". :-)
Neale Davidson
> its your right and I'm not gonna try to change your opinion.
> However, I think watching your wording and intent, especially
> now that everything you say will be scrutinized, would be a good
> idea.
Thanks for the.. um... support? And Hate is actually too strong of a word.
I disliked
it, and I loathed how it ended. It was , in my opinion, a mediocre effort
punctuated by
bits of terrible and some sprinkings of good. In other words, it was just
another kids'
show on Fox Kid's. Nothing spectacular, and very little for adult fare.
Some of the /fans/, however, have done much more to upset me than the show
itself
ever could, to be sure. And it's been to the point where I've considered
just taking down
everything and stopping my support for TFs in general... yuck.
Certainly not all of the fans have been this way. I can only count the true
flaming
monstrosities on both sides on my fingers at this point. But, damn, it gets
really hard
to be psyched for Transformers with this going on.
But, dammit, I've been here since ATT /existed/. This has been the worst of
times for
the newsgroups... but this too will pass. Getting pretty near time to move
on.
Neale Davidson
your
> opinion??
One woman, three guys, and none of which I take too seriously. It just gets
upsetting to see such things delivered to your emailbox in a day. And here I
thought /I/ had too much time on my hands...
Now, remember, that's just those who threatened my life. Even the verbal
abuse, though, only came from a small number of 'fans'.
Doesn't make me think too highly of that /segment/ of fans, mind you.
> This is North America right??..All because of a useless TF series
> gone putrid. Well.....Neale....dont worry.....its just a show (a toilet
one
> at that), just move on.
Yes, no, maybe. I'll move on soon enough. Aside from the behaviour of
certain fans, I'm looking ahead to the next series, and looking at finishing
up my own work. (Which no one is going to remember come next year's
trannies.. *sniff*).
Cyclonus
Botcon!
--
Cyclonus
"Neale Davidson" <TFN...@home.com> wrote in message
news:DokS4.56074$fF5.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
Eddie X-Tomb
>
> Some of the /fans/, however, have done much more to upset me than the show
> itself
> ever could, to be sure. And it's been to the point where I've considered
> just taking down
> everything and stopping my support for TFs in general... yuck.
Again, what does the actions of other TF fans have to do with your love
of TFs in general? I mean, does the way they treat you affect, in
anyway, your enjoyment of the TF toys/tv shows/comics/whatever?
-Eddie
Duo Maxwell
of
> times for
> the newsgroups... but this too will pass. Getting pretty near time to move
> on.
>
just how lucky y'all are. This aint shit people.
No wonder I got killfiled by a few of yas.. y'all aint used to the way the
rest of usenet is and get offended by what amounts to jack shit.
SO GROW A PAIR WOULD YA?! :)
Eddie X-Tomb
You're right, Duo. Some newsgroups out there are just insane with
flames, rudeness, etc. This place, even at its worst, is romper room
compared to other NGs. Not saying ATT doesn't have room for improvement,
but it could be worse. Besides, bitching about how bad it is ain't gonna
make it better.
-Eddie