TFCon 2016 Report- Flint Dille revelations and other tidbits

[Iaclonus Warp]

I went to TFCon two weeks ago. Flint Dille was a featured guest, and I was absolutely blown away by the amount of background information that he was willing and able to provide on his time as the story editor (or, as he rightly pointed out, "show runner", in modern parlance) for "The Transformers". I really wish I had taken notes-- there were so many moments- between his two panels, his live commentary of TFTM and just talking to him at his signing table- when he just gave a straight-up, detailed answer to a question I had assumed would have been rendered unanswerable by the mists of time. I'll try to remember as much as I can, in no particular order:

As Mr. Dille originally envisioned Quintessa, it is *not* actually the home planet of the Quintessons. Like Cybertron, it is a world that they invaded and cyber-formed (I think he might have used the word "terra-formed"... didn't actually validate the fan coinage of "cyber-formed"... I'm assuming that's fanon I saw at some point). All of the wildlife seen on Quintessa in TFTM is the result of Quintesson experimentation... so not just the Sharkticons and Quintesson guards, but all the marine life, as well...

The original rational for why Unicron fears the Matrix: it was meant to be a "key" that enables Cybertron to transform! Predating the concept of Primus, Mr. Dille originally wanted to have TFTM end with Cybertron actually transforming to battle Unicron! Apparently, the budget just wouldn't allow for such a lavish sequence...

I asked if Galvatron is meant to have retained his memories after his reformatting by Unicron. Mr. Dille replied that Galvatron *does* still see himself as Megatron and that the Unicron-Galvatron relationship is a parallel of the Megatron-Starscream relationship. I got the impression that Mr. Dille found the question a little odd... as in it should just go without saying that Megatron and Galvatron are completely the same consciousness... but I seem to recall that being something of a point of contention 'round these parts in the late '90s...

Mr. Dille would not comment as to which of the two Cycloni created by Unicron is, in fact, the "real" one. He said that either Bombshell or Skywarp could be the genuine article, and that fans are free to make their own decision...

... as an aside, Mr. Dille said numerous times that fans should interpret character details and backstories however they please, regardless of what his original intention might have time. He seems quite fond of the idea that potentially incongruous story details would inspire fans to write their own version of the events. I was... quite pleased by this.

Speaking of Insecticons getting reformatted, Mr. Dille *did* confirm that the multitudinous nature of the Sweeps was due to the fact that they were originally created from Insecticon clones. As often speculated, Shrapnel's cloning ability was assimilated and reppurposed when Unicron created Scourge.

Not sure if this is already public knowledge, but Mr. Dille confirmed that he created Fakkadi and Carbombya as a stand-in for Libya (given that he wrote FFoD, I reckon everyone always assumed as much). He recounted, with some glee, just how much it offended Casey Kasem. Slightly surprised he'd speak so cavalierly about Mr. Kasem's departure from the show, but Mr. Dille does seem to relish being delightfully offensive... so I ain't gonna judge. Plus, he alluded to Mr. Kasem having a reputation for being rather belligerent (or, at the very least... prickly) during recording sessions, so there's probably a *lot* more to the story...

In reference to the somewhat conflicting versions of the Cybertronian origin story that cropped up throughout the series (i.e. "Desertion of the Dinobots" vs. FFoD... the latter vs. "Heavy Metal War" vs. "The Secret of Omega Supreme" for Megatron and the Constructicons, specifically), Mr. Dille explains that the Autobots and Decepticons live so long that even *they* have no clear idea of major chunks of their history. He likens it to the four books of the Bible: a shared history that is largely similar, in broad strokes, where certain details have deviated during multiple retellings...

Mr. Dille met Frank Miller in 1985, while Mr. Miller was hashing the story for "The Dark Knight Returns". The two swapped ideas about writing epic confrontations between major characters from their respective franchises (i.e. the Prime/Megatron fight from TFTM and the Batman/Superman fight from the end of DKR). The two would work together on "300" much later (the character of Dilios in "300" is named after Mr. Dille). So there ya go-- the darker grittification and ante-upping of TFs and superhero comics in 1986 share a common origin!

... that's all I can remember at the moment (*really* wish I'd had the time to write this two weeks ago, but work unfortunately got in the way... <shakes fist>)... really just the tip of the iceberg, though. *Seriously* could not believe what a wealth of information Mr. Dille had to offer, not just about "Transformers", but overall progression of television animation in the '80s up to present day. Also, he wrote the script for "Pokemon Go", so that may also have accounted for him being in a particularly good mood!

In other news, Ian James Corlett announced at his panel that he has just begun recording sessions for a character in an upcoming season of PRiD. I asked him for further details at his signing-- he said that the character is *not* a new version of Cheetor and that he is unsure of whether it is Season 3 or Season 4 that he's currently recording for...

Oh, and Frank Welker said that he based Soundwave and Megatron's voice on a Barry White impression that he had been working on since the '70s... so there's that...

J (just can't listen to them the same way anymore... <shudder>...)

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 11:55:58 AM UTC-6, Iaclonus Warp wrote:

> There were so many moments he just gave a straight-up, detailed answer to a

> question I had assumed would have been rendered unanswerable by the mists of
> time.

I think that if you're involved in the production of one of these official works, and you're going to be participating in fan events, you're kind of obligated to brush up on the canon and develop at least a working knowledge of it. People who come to BotCon and go, "that was 30 years ago, don't remember, sorry" are obviously not invested in their craft. It's clear Dille made a decision to be invested and I think that's great.

> All of the wildlife seen on Quintessa in TFTM is the result of Quintesson
> experimentation... so not just the Sharkticons and Quintesson guards, but all
> the marine life, as well...

That's interesting. I wonder if they can all transform? All the little fishies and squids and such?

> The original rational for why Unicron fears the Matrix: it was meant to be
> a "key" that enables Cybertron to transform! Predating the concept of Primus,
> Mr. Dille originally wanted to have TFTM end with Cybertron actually
> transforming to battle Unicron! Apparently, the budget just wouldn't allow
> for such a lavish sequence...

Somewhere on the Interwebs, you can find a concept drawing that Floro Dery put together (presumably for The Transformers: the Movie) of planet Cybertron in its robot mode.

Wait, here we go:

http://tinyurl.com/cybertron-robot

> I asked if Galvatron is meant to have retained his memories after his
> reformatting by Unicron. Mr. Dille replied that Galvatron *does* still see
> himself as Megatron

It would have been a lot less vague if they had gone with some of the early lines from the script instead of fiddling and tampering with it endlessly. In an early draft, during the scene when Galvatron is battling Hot Rod inside the depths of Unicron's innards, he says something like, "Wait! Would you extinguish me without knowing my name? My true name is...MEGATRON!"

Honestly, I think the only reason it was ever up for debate was because certain interested parties (read: Decepticon Apologists) wished for it not to be so.

> Mr. Dille would not comment as to which of the two Cycloni created by Unicron
> is, in fact, the "real" one. He said that either Bombshell or Skywarp could
> be the genuine article, and that fans are free to make their own decision...

I really don't think it has to be an either/or scenario. I've come to accept that they're both the "real" Cyclonus, just as much as all three Reflector robots are the "real" Reflector. (Not saying both Cyclonuses have a shared mind like Reflector, though I guess it's possible.) We saw two Cyclonuses on screen in The Transformers: the Movie, and in "Five Faces of Darkness," so why are we so quick to dismiss it? (If you follow this train of thought to its logical conclusion, it seems clear that only one Cyclonus became a Targetmaster in "The Rebirth," which is why one of them is shown holding his original gun later on.)

> ... as an aside, Mr. Dille said numerous times that fans should interpret
> character details and backstories however they please, regardless of what his
> original intention might have time.

He's allowing fans to be fans. I hate when creators basically go, "No, you're WRONG, it happened THIS WAY and if you believe anything different, you clearly did not watch my lovingly hand-crafted episode closely enough."

> Speaking of Insecticons getting reformatted, Mr. Dille *did* confirm that the
> multitudinous nature of the Sweeps was due to the fact that they were
> originally created from Insecticon clones.

Hhh. See, this one kind of rubs me the wrong way. The clones never spoke or transformed to robot mode at any point during the first or second season, so the Insecticons we saw in the movie must have been the originals. And, if you want to get really picky, both Shrapnel and Bombshell were required to generate the clones, and Bombshell did not get turned into a Sweep! Still, the clone theory is a popular one and it does make sense on some levels.

> Plus, he alluded to Mr. Kasem having a reputation for being rather
> belligerent (or, at the very least... prickly) during recording sessions, so
> there's probably a *lot* more to the story...

Everything I've read about Kasem suggests that he was a difficult, cantankerous primadonna. He made all these demands about making Shaggy from Scooby-Doo into a vegetarian, and quit the role when Hanna-Barbera wouldn't comply. (And then resumed the role when Hanna-Barbera gave in, but that's a whole 'nother story.)

> Mr. Dille explains that the Autobots and Decepticons live so long that even
> *they* have no clear idea of major chunks of their history.

That's pretty consistent with Optimus Prime forgetting that Alpha Trion built him, or that the Aerialbots saved him. Or Blitzwing half-forgetting the Quintessons.

> Also, he wrote the script for "Pokemon Go", so that may also have accounted
> for him being in a particularly good mood!

Heh. A couple of weeks ago we went to this farmer's market in the center of town, and literally everybody we passed by on the street was playing Pokémon Go. Flint Dille was all around me, and I didn't even realize it!

Thanks for the report!


Zob (you DO mean Iaclonus Shell, don't you?) #pokeabearwithasharpstickandrun

[Iaclonus Warp]

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 9:56:06 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 11:55:58 AM UTC-6, Iaclonus Warp wrote:
>
> People who come to BotCon and go, "that was 30 years ago, don't remember, sorry" are obviously not invested in their craft.

Fair point... though, in some cases, you can't really fault them for wanting to talk about current projects and update fans on their latest exploits (OTOH... with the prices that a lot of guests charge for signatures these days, maybe it's *not* that unreasonable for them to just be expected to talk about the subject of the convention... though, for the record, Mr. Dille signed stuff for free).

I think things are different between actors and writers, too. Some actors seem to have worked on so many different shows back then that they forgot most of the dialogue a few days after recording the episode. Even though the writers were reportedly blitzing through the scripts at a breakneck pace, they really did seem to relish the opportunities for creative world-building that TFs, in particular, afforded them (IIRC, the Earl Kress interview from the Rhino DVDs also attested to this). So it's understandable that they'd still have fond, vivid memories of that time period... Mr. Dille described it as almost a renaissance of syndicated animation, when the sheer volume and popularity of "toaster shows" (i.e. cartoons designed to sell product... in Dille vernacular, the opposite of "squishy shows"-- Looney tunes etc.) created a unique level of creative freedom... which is how we ended up with the gonzo genius of stuff like "Inhumanoids", which Mr. Dille said was his favourite creation of the era...

> > All of the wildlife seen on Quintessa in TFTM is the result of Quintesson
> > experimentation... so not just the Sharkticons and Quintesson guards, but all
> > the marine life, as well...
>
> That's interesting. I wonder if they can all transform? All the little fishies and squids and such?

Yeah, it was the lack of obvious alt-modes that had me thinking that the squid et al. were proper indigenous life of the planet. But I guess they may indeed have transformation capabilities. Then again, since the Quintessons weren't actually the ones who imbued the Cybertronians with transformation, we shouldn't necessarily assume that all of their later creations would have the ability.

Come to think of it, it *is* a little odd that the Sharkticons and Guards *can* transform... I guess the Quints just independently thought it was a cool idea sometime in the last 11 million years...? Or they could have been watching Cybertron for a few eons and been inspired by the Autobots... only to lose track of their surveillance sometime before they started searching for Cybertronians around 2005...

> Somewhere on the Interwebs, you can find a concept drawing that Floro Dery put together (presumably for The Transformers: the Movie) of planet Cybertron in its robot mode.
>
> Wait, here we go:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cybertron-robot

Sweet! I... can't remember if I've seen that before. Feels vaguely familiar.

I especially like the random-crap-repurposed-as-a-pseudo-sword accessory (what *is* that? A massive underground ore deposit?)... reminds me of a Beast Machines non-show Maximal...

> It would have been a lot less vague if they had gone with some of the early lines from the script instead of fiddling and tampering with it endlessly. In an early draft, during the scene when Galvatron is battling Hot Rod inside the depths of Unicron's innards, he says something like, "Wait! Would you extinguish me without knowing my name? My true name is...MEGATRON!"

Come to think of it, it *is* rather strange that Megatron would just let himself be re-named without so much as a complaint. Always seemed extremely proud of his name...

> > Mr. Dille would not comment as to which of the two Cycloni created by Unicron
> > is, in fact, the "real" one. He said that either Bombshell or Skywarp could
> > be the genuine article, and that fans are free to make their own decision...
>
> I really don't think it has to be an either/or scenario. I've come to accept that they're both the "real" Cyclonus, just as much as all three Reflector robots are the "real" Reflector. (Not saying both Cyclonuses have a shared mind like Reflector, though I guess it's possible.) We saw two Cyclonuses on screen in The Transformers: the Movie, and in "Five Faces of Darkness," so why are we so quick to dismiss it?

I appreciate the objectivity of that interpetation, but it just feels... messy.

The Sweeps are clearly meant to be the horde of duplicates. Cyclonus having a clone that's never clearly acknowledged in the script seems so unnecessary and incongruous... I'd be much happier to just think of Scourge and the Sweeps as the "Armada" to which Unicron is referring...

... though I will admit that there's a certain charm to concluding that the two different voice actors and animation models are owing to the fact that Cyclonus was really two different guys all the way through Season 3... a certain maddening, convoluted charm...

> > Speaking of Insecticons getting reformatted, Mr. Dille *did* confirm that the
> > multitudinous nature of the Sweeps was due to the fact that they were
> > originally created from Insecticon clones.
>
> Hhh. See, this one kind of rubs me the wrong way. The clones never spoke or transformed to robot mode at any point during the first or second season, so the Insecticons we saw in the movie must have been the originals. And, if you want to get really picky, both Shrapnel and Bombshell were required to generate the clones, and Bombshell did not get turned into a Sweep! Still, the clone theory is a popular one and it does make sense on some levels.

To be clear, Mr. Dille didn't explicitly state that the *original* Shrapnel and Kickback were *not* the ones being reformatted into Sweeps. I just like to entertain the possibility that they were just clones, to account for the later appearances of the Insecticons in TFTM and beyond (though *those* guys could also just as easily be leftover clones... if you choose to believe that they would survive Shrapnel's death).

> > Plus, he alluded to Mr. Kasem having a reputation for being rather
> > belligerent (or, at the very least... prickly) during recording sessions, so
> > there's probably a *lot* more to the story...
>
> Everything I've read about Kasem suggests that he was a difficult, cantankerous primadonna. He made all these demands about making Shaggy from Scooby-Doo into a vegetarian, and quit the role when Hanna-Barbera wouldn't comply. (And then resumed the role when Hanna-Barbera gave in, but that's a whole 'nother story.)

Wow... I had not heard that bit... I had tended to think of Mr. Kasem as the marginalized victim in the whole Carbombya debacle (though mildly xenophobic humour at the expense of despots *was* a lot more palatable to mainstream audiences in 1986)... but that, combined with Mr. Dille's comments, really casts it in a new light...

> Zob (you DO mean Iaclonus Shell, don't you?) #pokeabearwithasharpstickandrun

Naw naw... I'm fully tolerant of both options, these days... chacun a son gout...

J (... <suppressed ominous eye twitch>...<gathering beads of forehead sweat>...)

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 6:56:06 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 11:55:58 AM UTC-6, Iaclonus Warp wrote:
>
> > There were so many moments he just gave a straight-up, detailed answer to a
> > question I had assumed would have been rendered unanswerable by the mists of
> > time.
>
> I think that if you're involved in the production of one of these official works, and you're going to be participating in fan events, you're kind of obligated to brush up on the canon and develop at least a working knowledge of it. People who come to BotCon and go, "that was 30 years ago, don't remember, sorry" are obviously not invested in their craft. It's clear Dille made a decision to be invested and I think that's great.

I'd like to think that he just makes stuff up on the spot, having no memory of what really happened.

> > All of the wildlife seen on Quintessa in TFTM is the result of Quintesson
> > experimentation... so not just the Sharkticons and Quintesson guards, but all
> > the marine life, as well...
>
> That's interesting. I wonder if they can all transform? All the little fishies and squids and such?

The fishies transform into the squids and vice versa.

> > The original rational for why Unicron fears the Matrix: it was meant to be
> > a "key" that enables Cybertron to transform! Predating the concept of Primus,
> > Mr. Dille originally wanted to have TFTM end with Cybertron actually
> > transforming to battle Unicron! Apparently, the budget just wouldn't allow
> > for such a lavish sequence...

That's a much better idea than what we got.

> Somewhere on the Interwebs, you can find a concept drawing that Floro Dery put together (presumably for The Transformers: the Movie) of planet Cybertron in its robot mode.
>
> Wait, here we go:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cybertron-robot

Ok, the execution might have been lacking...

> > I asked if Galvatron is meant to have retained his memories after his
> > reformatting by Unicron. Mr. Dille replied that Galvatron *does* still see
> > himself as Megatron
>
> It would have been a lot less vague if they had gone with some of the early lines from the script instead of fiddling and tampering with it endlessly. In an early draft, during the scene when Galvatron is battling Hot Rod inside the depths of Unicron's innards, he says something like, "Wait! Would you extinguish me without knowing my name? My true name is...MEGATRON!"
>
> Honestly, I think the only reason it was ever up for debate was because certain interested parties (read: Decepticon Apologists) wished for it not to be so.

If we accept sparks into the G1 canon, I really like the notion that Unicron hollowed out Megatron, destroying the spark and replacing it with a tiny fragment of Unicron.

Same memories, but not the same individual.