Fanfics of 2002 and the Trannies Awards
Merytneith
Awards today, which reminded me of the debacle re: the
fanfic awards section of *last* year's Trannies, in which
Deathy won a fanfiction award for what I continue to
maintain were all the *wrong* reasons.
As I for one take TF fanfic seriously enough not to want a
repeat of last year's turn of events, I wonder if anyone has
compiled a list of all the fanfics (or would be interested
in creating one) that have been written in the last year on
ATT, -F, -CM, -etc. which are eligible for the "Fanfic of
the Year" category.
Last year Sky Shadow put together a list, which I thought
was *immensely* helpful (and, apparently, underutilized).
Perhaps another list posted combined with the [FANFIC 2002]
festival that has been going on the last month and a half or
so would give enough exposure to this year's 'fics to yield
a more rational result.
--Mery
[...but just in case it doesn't, I'm going to campaign for
Sky Shadow's "Best First" in *either* the "Fanfic of the
Year" category OR "Best Fanfic Ever" category. Hey, I
didn't think anything would ever replace "Corrosion of War
Without End" either, but there you go.]
==========================================
Skinner: I'm not sure random locker
searches are legal according
to the Supreme Court...
Bart: Ppbbffft. What has the Supreme
Court done for *us* lately?
==========================================
Snufalufamus Prime
news:3E164FE3...@earthIHATESPAMlink.net
> I happened to be thinking about the upcoming 2002 Trannies
> Awards today, which reminded me of the debacle re: the
> fanfic awards section of *last* year's Trannies, in which
> Deathy won a fanfiction award for what I continue to
> maintain were all the *wrong* reasons.
I voted for Deathy's fic. I genuinely liked it more than any other fanfic
I'd read that was new last year. The reasons I liked it weren't the same
reasons I like fanfic by Rob Jung or Sky Shadow or Zobovor. Does that mean I
only like some fan fiction the 'right' way? What defines right and wrong in
determining best fanfic? Just because you don't agree with someone's reasons
for liking something doesn't mean you should declare them wrong.
The category is "Best Fanfic Story" of the year, not "Most Well Written,"
"Fewest Grammatical Errors" or even "Most Spellchecked" and even the first
among those, is still very subjective. I was more entertained by 'Ravage 3
Bodies Evolution' than I have been by any other fanfic. I've found others
far better written, more intelligent and more emotional. None were a tenth
as much fun. Deathy wrote that fanfic to entertain. It did; it entertained
enough people to win him an award, so I say good for him.
________________
Snuf
Sky Shadow
> I wonder if anyone has
> compiled a list of all the fanfics (or would be interested
> in creating one) that have been written in the last year on
> ATT, -F, -CM, -etc. which are eligible for the "Fanfic of
> the Year" category.
>
> Last year Sky Shadow put together a list, which I thought
> was *immensely* helpful (and, apparently, underutilized).
I've been thinking that to avoid the controversy of *that* particular
thread, if nobody's willing to compile a list then maybe individuals could
keep adding to *this* thread with the fanfics that they themselves completed
in 2002 (and are thus eligible for the Trannies.)
e.g. I wrote:
"Best First", Sky Shadow.
"Horizons", Sky Shadow.
Then Mery, for example, could add:
"Measuring Up", Merytneith.
Then Chris Sarracini might add:
"Transformers G1", Chris Sarracini.
and so on.
(Note: the last addition was a joke.)
It's an idea, anyway.
> Perhaps another list posted combined with the [FANFIC 2002]
> festival that has been going on the last month and a half or
> so would give enough exposure to this year's 'fics to yield
> a more rational result.
>
> --Mery
> [...but just in case it doesn't, I'm going to campaign for
> Sky Shadow's "Best First" in *either* the "Fanfic of the
> Year" category OR "Best Fanfic Ever" category.
Can you not campaign for me in *both*? ;)
Sky Shadow. Erm... I mean... "thanks." :)
--
'"They've immobilised him somehow," said Cambo, Hosehead's small Nebulan
partner, who had been silent so far.'
From *Autobot Hostage* by John Grant, Ladybird Books.
Merytneith
> I voted for Deathy's fic. I genuinely liked it more than any other fanfic
> I'd read that was new last year. The reasons I liked it weren't the same
> reasons I like fanfic by Rob Jung or Sky Shadow or Zobovor. Does that mean I
> only like some fan fiction the 'right' way? What defines right and wrong in
> determining best fanfic? Just because you don't agree with someone's reasons
> for liking something doesn't mean you should declare them wrong.
You presume that the universal reason people voted for
Deathy's story is because they liked it. I find that
extraordinarily doubtful, with--apparently-- the sole
exception of your one vote.
Just call me a hopeless cynic, I guess.
> The category is "Best Fanfic Story" of the year, not "Most Well Written,"
> "Fewest Grammatical Errors" or even "Most Spellchecked" and even the first
> among those, is still very subjective. I was more entertained by 'Ravage 3
> Bodies Evolution' than I have been by any other fanfic. I've found others
> far better written, more intelligent and more emotional. None were a tenth
> as much fun. Deathy wrote that fanfic to entertain. It did; it entertained
> enough people to win him an award, so I say good for him.
Did I *say* the standard should be "most well written"? Did
I *say* it should be "fewest grammatical errors"? "Most
spellchecked"?
No. I did not. That is what *you* assumed I meant.
What I *actually* said was that IN MY OPINION, it is clear
to me that Deathy won "for all the wrong reasons", not one
of which has ANYTHING to do with the technical composition
of the piece. The *wrong* reasons, in fact, are these:
(1) Voting for Deathy's story because the voter(s) hadn't
read any OTHER stories that year; and
(2) Voting for Deathy's story in order to *mock* him with
the award.
There is a level of latent maliciousness in (2), voting for
Deathy's story to mock him, which I pointed out last April
when Brian Kilby and I were having this exact same conversation:
> My problem with the voting in this category is THIS: those
> votes that Deathy's story got were NOT good-faith votes at
> all. I very clearly remember the weeks leading up to the
> closing of the Trannies polls about the campaigning that
> went on among some people on ATT to vote Deathy's fic
> "Fanfic of the Year". And I also remember *very* clearly
> the rationale that was given alongside that campaigning--
> this story is so bad, it *must* win.
>
> Those votes weren't votes of praise. They weren't votes of
> supporting good-sportsmanship. They were bitterly ironic
> bullets of scorn meant to degrade Deathy by turning him into
> Quasimodo, King Of Fools. It's sad, it's insulting, and
> it's WRONG-- wrong for all the reasons you pointed out about
> the damage that a negative review can have on a writer
> struggling to find his or her voice for the first time.
>
> Nobody could have insulted him worse than by doing it *this*
> way. And I find that very unfortunate indeed.
My feelings on the matter have not changed. I continue to
believe that the Trannies Awards, given that their purpose
is to bring together all members of the TF fandom to
celebrate the best of all things Transformers, should NEVER
be abused for the purposes of ridiculing someone.
--Mery
Richard Mistron
> I happened to be thinking about the upcoming 2002 Trannies
> Awards today, which reminded me of the debacle re: the
> fanfic awards section of *last* year's Trannies, in which
> Deathy won a fanfiction award for what I continue to
> maintain were all the *wrong* reasons.
You and me both.
> As I for one take TF fanfic seriously enough not to want a
> repeat of last year's turn of events, I wonder if anyone has
> compiled a list of all the fanfics (or would be interested
> in creating one) that have been written in the last year on
> ATT, -F, -CM, -etc. which are eligible for the "Fanfic of
> the Year" category.
That would be a great idea. I don't really recall too many "non-eligible"
fanfics being written last year, so that should help things out.
> Last year Sky Shadow put together a list, which I thought
> was *immensely* helpful (and, apparently, underutilized).
> Perhaps another list posted combined with the [FANFIC 2002]
> festival that has been going on the last month and a half or
> so would give enough exposure to this year's 'fics to yield
> a more rational result.
You up for that, Sky? ;-)
> --Mery
> [...but just in case it doesn't, I'm going to campaign for
> Sky Shadow's "Best First" in *either* the "Fanfic of the
> Year" category OR "Best Fanfic Ever" category. Hey, I
> didn't think anything would ever replace "Corrosion of War
> Without End" either, but there you go.]
Which brings to mind a question I have, would you consider TranSurvivors to
qualify as fanfic?
http://www.geocities.com/transurvivors/
If so, feel free to vote for it. :-)
Merytneith
>>As I for one take TF fanfic seriously enough not to want a
>>repeat of last year's turn of events, I wonder if anyone has
>>compiled a list of all the fanfics (or would be interested
>>in creating one) that have been written in the last year on
>>ATT, -F, -CM, -etc. which are eligible for the "Fanfic of
>>the Year" category.
>>
>
> That would be a great idea. I don't really recall too many "non-eligible"
> fanfics being written last year, so that should help things out.
My understanding is that the stories eligible for the "of
the year" category are those that were completed / posted /
otherwise published between Jan 1 and Dec 31, 2002. I'm not
aware of any other requirements for eligibility than time
frame (and only in that particular category, because "Best
Fanfic Ever" accomodates stories from years past).
> Which brings to mind a question I have, would you consider TranSurvivors to
> qualify as fanfic?
> http://www.geocities.com/transurvivors/
>
> If so, feel free to vote for it. :-)
You know, I have absolutely no idea how to categorize
TransSurvivors. I think the Trannies needs a "Best
Interactive Website Multimedia Presentation" (or something)
category to catch things like TransSurvivor, Radio Free
Cybertron, Walky's "Dumbass TF of the Month" feature and
maybe even Zob's treasure hunt game that he had on his
website a while back. (I'm probably neglecting a zillion
other such web amusements who might benefit from the same
category-- sorry.)
--Mery
Snufalufamus Prime
> You presume that the universal reason people voted for
> Deathy's story is because they liked it. I find that
> extraordinarily doubtful, with--apparently-- the sole
> exception of your one vote.
> Just call me a hopeless cynic, I guess.
Well, taking a look at last years Trannies, he only received 4 votes. One
was mine, and I believe Kilby said somewhere he voted for it as well. Hooper
X was a third vote, (quoted in the trannies). Hooper X and Kilby have both
declared on more than one occasion that they loved it. I'm saying right now
that I do. Loving it because it's bad doesn't mean we love it any less. It
was the little fanfic that could. So at least three of his four votes were
genuine, (assuming I'm right about Kilby's vote). That at least ties him
with the next place. Deathy earned his Trannie.
> Did I *say* the standard should be "most well written"? Did
> I *say* it should be "fewest grammatical errors"? "Most
> spellchecked"?
> No. I did not. That is what *you* assumed I meant.
You're totally right here, I did assume too much. And looking at your
reasons below, I agree they are bad myself. I can see the word wrong being
use to describe them, not just because they're mean, but they aren't what
the question is asking for. Then, that does seem to be what you're getting
at.
> What I *actually* said was that IN MY OPINION, it is clear
> to me that Deathy won "for all the wrong reasons", not one
> of which has ANYTHING to do with the technical composition
> of the piece. The *wrong* reasons, in fact, are these:
Again, this was me reading too much into things. I missed the inferred "IN
MY OPINION" and read it as you stating that opinion as fact. Sorry.
> (1) Voting for Deathy's story because the voter(s) hadn't
> read any OTHER stories that year; and
> (2) Voting for Deathy's story in order to *mock* him with
> the award.
(1) Is a problem you're going to have any with election. The uniformed vote;
that's something that has to be accepted. That's exactly why when I sent in
my ballot this year, I didn't vote in that category; I've not read much fan
fiction this year. (2) People are just mean some times. But in this case, it
was at most one person doing it.
> > Those votes weren't votes of praise. They weren't votes of
> > supporting good-sportsmanship. They were bitterly ironic
> > bullets of scorn meant to degrade Deathy by turning him into
> > Quasimodo, King Of Fools. It's sad, it's insulting, and
> > it's WRONG-- wrong for all the reasons you pointed out about
> > the damage that a negative review can have on a writer
> > struggling to find his or her voice for the first time.
I agree with you about not using the trannies as way of ridiculing someone,
but I just don't see Deathy's win as being solely the result of cruelty.
Deathy isn't as hated you seem to think. Hindsight has rounded some of his
rougher edges and people remember him as goofy at best and irritating at
worst. I for one wish he still posted more regularly, if for no other reason
than to have more regular posting from back when I was lurking.
Godzilla movies are generally campy and just plain bad as far technical
filmmaking and storytelling. That's why the fans love them, and why they
have genuine affection for the creators.
________________
Snuf
Blacknife
You know, it's hard for "on-going" fanfic shared universes to get in on
the action...because there's stories posted that really don't end...
There are constant on-goings.
So would then only the "chapters" or "issues" made during 2001 count?
This might be hard to do since sometimes the stories almost require a
previous issue to get a gist of what's going on...or felt left hanging
for next issue...
There's TMUK, MU:TF {Marvel Universe: Transformed
http://www.mutf.cjb.net} plug plug, Mirror-Verse...dunno what else.
Sky Shadow
> What defines right and wrong in
> determining best fanfic?
<snip>
> The category is "Best Fanfic Story" of the year,
<snip>
I was more entertained by 'Ravage 3
> Bodies Evolution' than I have been by any other fanfic. I've found others
> far better written, more intelligent and more emotional. None were a tenth
> as much fun.
Just addressing the points above as a whole, I feel there's something about
the semantics of the way the Trannies are structured that continues to make
this topic controversial. I've also tried sincerely to write the following
in a positive tone, but if it begins to feel snarky, please just imagine
happy faces at the end of each sentence like so. :)
The first semantic issue is the gulf between the word "best" and
"favourite." My favourite film of all time is probably *Transformers: the
Movie*. Would I say that *Transformers: the Movie* is the best film ever?
No, I feel that would be preposterous. I may have enjoyed it more than any
other film and have watched it more times, but I'm still not quite naive
enough to believe it's the best film of all time. One of my favourite
fanfics of 2001 was "Brian Kilby vs. Sky Shadow: Fight to the End" by Dude
Winchester. However, I would have been completely unable to justify myself
voting for it as "Best Fanfic" of the year since it's far more
*Transformers: the Movie* than it is *Citizen Kane.* On the other hand I
had no compunctions about voting for it in the *Funniest Fanfic* category.
Okay, point two is exactly that: there are two Trannies categories for
fanfic of the year. The first is "Best Fanfic Story of the Year," while the
second is "Funniest Fanfic Story of the Year." Why are there two
categories? If funny fanfics were really supposed to be contenders for the
top spot then why include the second category? In fact, if TFG14VR and
Deathy are so adept at writing the best fanfics of the year with their
funfics, surely the two categories should be "Best Fanfic Story of the Year"
and "Most Dramatic Fanfic Story of the Year," since it is obviously dramatic
fanfic that is unable to compete on its own, not funfiction.
I feel that "Best Fanfic" implies that the story's construction as a work of
prose; being well-written, being well structured, truly being the *best*
work of the year *should* probably be taken into account. On the other hand
I believe "Funniest Fanfic" requires one only to consider the aspect of
humour, regardless of those things.
That's just my take: I don't feel as passionately as others do one way or
the other, but I do feel that individuals' definitions of the categories
are what tends to create the recurring disharmony over this particular
issue.
Sky Shadow.
Dave Van Domelen
2002, and "Holes" a couple months ago. Slow year for me, but neither RiD nor
Armada have really inspired me.
Oh, and I suppose my jaAm-fic counts.
Dave Van Domelen, put it at the bottom of his Armada page,
http://www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/BW/Armada/comic.html
David Willis
> read any OTHER stories that year; and
> (2) Voting for Deathy's story in order to *mock* him with
> the award.
I certainly didn't do either. I particularly can't comprehend the logic of
the second motive. Even beyond the dubious paradox of voting to put someone
down, Deathy wouldn't even comprehend such an action. His brain is a brick
wall. What, are you characterizing me as some guy standing on the sidelings
shouting "Ha ha ha, we hate you but you don't understand that we hate you"?
Don't I have better things to do with my time? Obviously, since I only read
one fanfic that year, of course.
All I know is that "Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution" is the most enjoyable, most
quotable fanfic I read all year. If you want to piss all over my vote,
fine. I just thought better of you.
--David
www.itswalky.com
David Willis
of
> prose; being well-written, being well structured, truly being the *best*
> work of the year *should* probably be taken into account. On the other
hand
> I believe "Funniest Fanfic" requires one only to consider the aspect of
> humour, regardless of those things.
>
> That's just my take: I don't feel as passionately as others do one way or
> the other, but I do feel that individuals' definitions of the categories
> are what tends to create the recurring disharmony over this particular
> issue.
Well, I dunno. Maybe I thought everyone's "serious" fanfics were all crap.
Doesn't that put Deathy's ahead?
--David
www.itswalky.com
Ethan Hammond
>
> I happened to be thinking about the upcoming 2002 Trannies
> Awards today, which reminded me of the debacle re: the
> fanfic awards section of *last* year's Trannies, in which
> Deathy won a fanfiction award for what I continue to
> maintain were all the *wrong* reasons.
>
> As I for one take TF fanfic seriously enough not to want a
> repeat of last year's turn of events, I wonder if anyone has
> compiled a list of all the fanfics (or would be interested
> in creating one) that have been written in the last year on
> ATT, -F, -CM, -etc. which are eligible for the "Fanfic of
> the Year" category.
>
> Last year Sky Shadow put together a list, which I thought
> was *immensely* helpful (and, apparently, underutilized).
> Perhaps another list posted combined with the [FANFIC 2002]
> festival that has been going on the last month and a half or
> so would give enough exposure to this year's 'fics to yield
> a more rational result.
I voted for nothing in the fanfics section since I don't read
them, so don't blame me. Now if candidates would like to sway
me into voting I recommend Fortress Maximus as a bribe. ^_-
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Andrew Crane
news:3E167D85...@netscape.net...
> There's TMUK, MU:TF {Marvel Universe: Transformed
> http://www.mutf.cjb.net} plug plug, Mirror-Verse...dunno what else.
Speaking of TMUK, popular member Graham Thomson has written an interesting
fanfic this year called Globequake. It's roughly based around Robots in
Disguise, with a bit of Beast Machines thrown in. I'll admit that I'm not
keen on combining RiD and BM into one storyline, but Graham has done an
excellent job of it, and there's some great plot twists. I'd suggest that
anyone who follows Transformers fanfic should definitely give it a read.
http://www.warwithoutend.com/fiction/index.html
ShadowWing
"Sky Shadow" wrote
>
> I feel that "Best Fanfic" implies that the story's construction as a work
of
> prose; being well-written, being well structured, truly being the *best*
> work of the year *should* probably be taken into account. On the other
hand
> I believe "Funniest Fanfic" requires one only to consider the aspect of
> humour, regardless of those things.
I don't see how being a comedy or parody makes a fanfic any more or less
invalid than a dramatic one. I didn't read "Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution", and
I haven't read much of anything this year (which is why I'm not planning to
vote in that category this year), but who's to say that a funny fanfic
couldn't be considered "best fanfic" as well? Heck, I'm prouder of my Beast
Machines parody than the one dramatic TF fanfic I've written, which is one
of the reasons I'm planning a rewrite. (The other being that I have some
altered ideas for the future chapters than I had when I first wrote "Vortex"
part 1.) Comedies have won best picture in Hollywood, I believe, but I don't
follow those awards enough to recall. It's quite possible that Deathy earned
the award. I'm no fan of Harlan Ellison on a personal level, but that
doesn't take away from his writing skill or his fanbase. Any fanfic written
in the allowable timespan is eligible for Trannie approval in it's chosen
field, but "Best Fanfic" means IMO best overall, not just best drama/action
fanfic. (Although that also deserves it's own category.)
--
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Thomas Hamann
the web:
>Argh...
>
>You know, it's hard for "on-going" fanfic shared universes to get in on
>the action...because there's stories posted that really don't end...
>There are constant on-goings.
My "Operation: Conquest" falls in this category.
The first 5 chapters (which all got posted already) form more or less
one 'book' (dealing with the 'now' and the 'recent past'), while the
next 5 chapters will form the next 'book' (dealing with the 'future'
and the 'older past' (which may as well be the 'future', too...).
So it's ellegible for vote, I think as all that you need to know about
the first 5 chapters is written in them (sure there's a semi-open end,
but...we know what's gonna happen...or don't we? Sorry, I'm just
teasing you now...)
Thomas Hamann, besides, I didn't write the next 5 chapters because
then I would have to write them in less than a month...didn't feel
like doing that. First 5 chapters are one 'book', next 5 kick off
somewhere else altogether...
--
Thomas Hamann's Website: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/
Thomas Hamann's Other Website: http://www.geocities.com/hamann_td/
Zoidfans Web Board: http://server1.ikonboard.com/Zoidfans/
rec.arts.anime.model Posting Policies: http://www.geocities.com/hamann_td/faqs/raamfaq.txt
Thomas Hamann
the web:
>> (1) Voting for Deathy's story because the voter(s) hadn't
>> read any OTHER stories that year; and
>> (2) Voting for Deathy's story in order to *mock* him with
>> the award.
>
>I certainly didn't do either. I particularly can't comprehend the logic of
>the second motive. Even beyond the dubious paradox of voting to put someone
>down, Deathy wouldn't even comprehend such an action. His brain is a brick
>wall.
...
Am I the only one who thinks that these kind of remarks actually PROVE
Mery's point?
Don't assume people are stupid because they come over as dorks due to
their writing style...
<snip>
Thomas Hamann
Merytneith
> I'm saying right now
> that I do. Loving it because it's bad doesn't mean we love it any less.
That's precisely my point-- "loving" the story "because it's
bad" and then voting for it as the "Best Fanfic" is the same
thing as setting the story up to be publicly pilloried. The
reasoning behind it is that the story was *so* awful that it
was hilarious. Given how much laughing could be done at
said awfulness, it brought so much enjoyment (at someone
else's *expense*, which is the part that gets glossed over)
such that in the end, this story *must* have been "more
enjoyable" than any other. So it gets the vote.
Hey, maybe you're of the opinion that this train of
reasoning is perfectly legitimate. I'm not. I think it is
malicious at its core, and I'm very disappointed that it
happened.
> Again, this was me reading too much into things. I missed the inferred "IN
> MY OPINION" and read it as you stating that opinion as fact. Sorry.
No, I'm sorry. I was far too harsh in my reply, and I
apologize.
> (1) Is a problem you're going to have any with election. The uniformed vote;
> that's something that has to be accepted.
I disagree. I think the uninformed vote is a problem that
will most likely affect every single election / contest /
whatever to some extent, but that does *not* mean, in my
opinion, that it has to be accepted as a fact of life.
> I agree with you about not using the trannies as way of ridiculing someone,
> but I just don't see Deathy's win as being solely the result of cruelty.
> Deathy isn't as hated you seem to think.
The extent to which Deathy is liked or disliked overall has
very little relevance in this case. Similarly, I don't
think that the win was solely the result of *intentional*
cruelty. I think, rather, that the *consequence* of the
vote was cruel because it wasn't motivated by a positive
feedback response ("it's so good that it's the best") but
rather a negative one ("its so *bad* that it's the best").
It's a roundabout way of mocking someone's work, and I very
*strenuously* dislike it.
Sky Shadow
> > I feel that "Best Fanfic" implies that the story's construction as a
work
> of
> > prose; being well-written, being well structured, truly being the *best*
> > work of the year *should* probably be taken into account. On the other
> hand
> > I believe "Funniest Fanfic" requires one only to consider the aspect of
> > humour, regardless of those things.
>
> I don't see how being a comedy or parody makes a fanfic any more or
less
> invalid than a dramatic one.
I agree, but what I was saying was that in a category of "Best Fanfic,"
perhaps elements of style ought to be considered, while it wouldn't be
necessary to do so with the "Funniest Fanfic" category. In terms of their
construction as stories, "3 Bodies Evoltion" and "Jax Makes a Sandwich"
contain bad spelling (even the title of Deathy's was misspelled),
nonsensical plots and faulty grammar, while TFG14VR's story wasn't even
about Transformers and insulted people on this newsgroup. On the other
hand, there are many comedy fanfics which *are* well constructed and could
perhaps be seen as 'better' fanfics than these.
Any fanfic written
> in the allowable timespan is eligible for Trannie approval in it's chosen
> field, but "Best Fanfic" means IMO best overall, not just best
drama/action
> fanfic. (Although that also deserves it's own category.)
I agree with both these statements entirely.
Merytneith
> All I know is that "Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution" is the most enjoyable, most
> quotable fanfic I read all year.
Well hey, Mr. Willis, my opinion of you is more than
favorable enough to take your word for it.
In fact, I'll even say that your vote was perfectly
legitimate, well-reasoned, and unassailable in every way--
provided that *you* can tell me, in complete and total
honesty, that your vote was *never* motivated by the
syllogism "It's So Awful That It's Amazing"; that NOT ONCE
did it ever cross your mind while you were reading and/or
voting for it how amusingly ironic it would be if a story
that was just *so* bad won the top slot in the Trannies
after all; if you can say that there was not even the
ethereal *shadow* of mockery, of laughing *at* the story
rather than enjoying it in the way that you want *your*
readers to enjoy *your* fanfiction--
--then Mr. Willis, and *only* then, will you summon an
apology from *me*.
> If you want to piss all over my vote,
> fine. I just thought better of you.
I am completely mystified as to how you can *possibly* take
my expression as personally insulting. If you honestly
believe that your actions were completely justifiable, what
the hell do *you* care if I don't see it the same way?
Snufalufamus Prime and I have been having a perfectly
rational discussion about the topic. Brian Kilby and I had
the same perfectly rational discussion last April when it
first came up. We agreed to disagree-- which is most likely
where the Snuffy discussion is heading-- and so what of it?
Do you honestly think that it's my duty to keep silent
about something I feel very strongly about just because
*you* happen to disagree with me?
You're the only person here who has decided to take it
personally. Frankly, I thought better of *you* as well.
Sky Shadow
> Well, I dunno. Maybe I thought everyone's "serious" fanfics were all
crap.
> Doesn't that put Deathy's ahead?
I think it's ironic that you thought Merytneith was a bad person for
"piss(ing) all over (your) vote." How much effort did you put into that
vote? As much effort as the 100,000 words of serious fanfiction that Mery
wrote? The man-hours that Iacon put into his serious fanfiction? The
amount of thought in Rik Bakke's serious fanfiction? Zob's? Desperad00's?
Everyone else's?
I hope you enjoyed "crap"ping all over everyone's serious fanfic of 2001.
I'm sure the writers probably thought better of you, too.
David Willis
> legitimate, well-reasoned, and unassailable in every way--
> provided that *you* can tell me, in complete and total
> honesty, that your vote was *never* motivated by the
> syllogism "It's So Awful That It's Amazing"; that NOT ONCE
> did it ever cross your mind while you were reading and/or
> voting for it how amusingly ironic it would be if a story
> that was just *so* bad won the top slot in the Trannies
> after all;
I guess it might be amusing, if the same thing hadn't happened already years
previous. WARendfeld got lots of votes in his prime, too. 'Course, those
years, I voted for stuff by Hooks and Jung and Powers. I'd seen dumb fanfic
win loads of Trannies votes before -- why would it be any more novel now?
That's so 1998.
> if you can say that there was not even the
> ethereal *shadow* of mockery, of laughing *at* the story
> rather than enjoying it in the way that you want *your*
> readers to enjoy *your* fanfiction--
If there's mockery to be had, it's that the serious fanfiction I'd read
during the course of the year didn't have the impact and longevity to my
attention span that Deathy's fic did. Mind, this might speak more about my
individual tastes, but isn't this what the Trannies are about? Individual
taste? There's times I've been intrigued by "serious" fanfiction, but that
hasn't been for a while.
And, yeah, sure, I wrote "serious" fanfic in 2001, too. It might have
gotten a vote. I don't care. It was fun to write, and I'm glad some people
enjoyed it. I'm not, however, going to go on a nasty, bitter crusade about
how it lost to "Dinobot's Old Technology."
> > If you want to piss all over my vote,
> > fine. I just thought better of you.
> I am completely mystified as to how you can *possibly* take
> my expression as personally insulting. If you honestly
> believe that your actions were completely justifiable, what
> the hell do *you* care if I don't see it the same way?
I felt that you were maliciously mischaracterizing the, oh, four people who
voted for "Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution." Myself being among them.
> Snufalufamus Prime and I have been having a perfectly
> rational discussion about the topic. Brian Kilby and I had
> the same perfectly rational discussion last April when it
> first came up. We agreed to disagree-- which is most likely
> where the Snuffy discussion is heading-- and so what of it?
> Do you honestly think that it's my duty to keep silent
> about something I feel very strongly about just because
> *you* happen to disagree with me?
>
> You're the only person here who has decided to take it
> personally. Frankly, I thought better of *you* as well.
I've only responded in kind. After all, I'm the "malicious" one who seeks
to undermine society and slander the mentally handicapped with my
diabolical, contemptuous undermining of the political process.
--David
www.itswalky.com
David Willis
> "piss(ing) all over (your) vote." How much effort did you put into that
> vote? As much effort as the 100,000 words of serious fanfiction that Mery
> wrote? The man-hours that Iacon put into his serious fanfiction? The
> amount of thought in Rik Bakke's serious fanfiction? Zob's?
Desperad00's?
> Everyone else's?
If any of these writers were insulted by me not voting for them, um, let me
know. But spare me your hubris.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Snufalufamus Prime
> I think it's ironic that you thought Merytneith was a bad person for
> "piss(ing) all over (your) vote." How much effort did you put into that
> vote? As much effort as the 100,000 words of serious fanfiction that Mery
> wrote? The man-hours that Iacon put into his serious fanfiction? The
> amount of thought in Rik Bakke's serious fanfiction? Zob's?
Desperad00's?
> Everyone else's?
> I hope you enjoyed "crap"ping all over everyone's serious fanfic of 2001.
> I'm sure the writers probably thought better of you, too.
So you're saying Deathy's fic isn't as good because it didn't take as long
to write? For all we know it took Deathy the same amount of effort to write
his story as it did any one of the other writers to create one of their
pieces. If you use your vote to make a statement about the respect you have
for the amount of effort that goes into a piece, if that's what you use to
determine what is the best, that's fine. But don't dismiss Deathy's efforts
just because they aren't as good technically as those who wrote what you're
calling 'serious' fanfic.
That's not the criteria I used. I thought the best story was the one I found
most entertaining and the one I enjoyed reading the most. If the reasons I
found for enjoying it are the same reasons others cringed at it, that's just
a matter of taste, which is subjective. So is the title 'Best Fanfic.' I
don't presume to speak for Walky, but I think he would agree, when I cast my
vote I wasn't weighing '3 Bodies Evolution' against entire bodies of work by
every other fanfic writer out there. I was voting for the story I liked the
best of those I'd read that were eligible.
________________
Snuf
Snufalufamus Prime
>>Loving it because it's bad doesn't mean we love it any less.
> Hey, maybe you're of the opinion that this train of
> reasoning is perfectly legitimate. I'm not. I think it is
> malicious at its core, and I'm very disappointed that it
> happened.
This is where our conflict lies. I don't believe mocking or teasing someone
is inherently mean or cruel. I doubt there is anyone who hasn't teased or
made fun of a friend and meant no harm by it.
>> Again, this was me reading too much into things. I missed the inferred
"IN
>> MY OPINION" and read it as you stating that opinion as fact. Sorry.
> No, I'm sorry. I was far too harsh in my reply, and I
> apologize.
It's nice this is settled. I think we can agree that this isn't a hostile
disagreement at all, and any perceived slights that may arise are likely not
intended.
>> (1) Is a problem you're going to have any with election. The uniformed
vote;
>> that's something that has to be accepted.
> I disagree. I think the uninformed vote is a problem that
> will most likely affect every single election / contest /
> whatever to some extent, but that does *not* mean, in my
> opinion, that it has to be accepted as a fact of life.
Bad choice of words on my part. I didn't mean accepted so much as I meant
accounted for. It's not something we should accept and leave at that, but
it's almost guaranteed presence is something we have to be aware of and take
into account when examining any election/contest.
If nothing else, the award made Deathy happy, which is a good thing. And
even if Deathy had won based solely on the ill wishes of those who voted for
him, they would have failed because of that. You don't ridicule someone for
the sake of seeing their smile.
I see and understand your view now, but I just can't think of the whole
thing as negatively as you do. Just because something has it's roots in
something that isn't good doesn't mean it has to end there.
________________
Snuf
Suspsy
> I think it's ironic that you thought Merytneith was a bad person for
> "piss(ing) all over (your) vote." How much effort did you put into that
> vote? As much effort as the 100,000 words of serious fanfiction that Mery
> wrote? The man-hours that Iacon put into his serious fanfiction? The
> amount of thought in Rik Bakke's serious fanfiction? Zob's?
Desperad00's?
> Everyone else's?
Well, I can't speak for Walky, but I myself would never take my ballot
seriously, seeing as how the Trannies, like everything else dealing with the
TF world, aren't *meant* to be taken seriously. It's supposed to be *fun.*
And if you can't see the fun in voting for Deathy's fic, which I too found
genuinely amusing (although I ended up voting for another one), then I'm
sorry. I'm also repulsed by the decidedly condescending attitude that you
and Mery, for whom I normally have a great deal of respect for, are
displaying right now. If you feel that you were slighted last year, fine,
but please, don't go berating people just because they vote a conscience
which happens to differ from yours.
> I hope you enjoyed "crap"ping all over everyone's serious fanfic of 2001.
Now you're just blowing things completely out of proportion. It's
unnecessary, it's pointless, it's insulting, and it's sad.
> I'm sure the writers probably thought better of you, too.
And I'm sure at least some voters will think less of you now. I certainly
do.
Susp
"It's not who's the fastest; it's who reaches the finish line." -Nosecone
Túrin
Snufalufamus Prime wrote:
>
> "Merytneith" <meryt...@earthIHATESPAMlink.net> wrote...
>
> >>Loving it because it's bad doesn't mean we love it any less.
>
> > Hey, maybe you're of the opinion that this train of
> > reasoning is perfectly legitimate. I'm not. I think it is
> > malicious at its core, and I'm very disappointed that it
> > happened.
>
> This is where our conflict lies. I don't believe mocking or teasing someone
> is inherently mean or cruel. I doubt there is anyone who hasn't teased or
> made fun of a friend and meant no harm by it.
This is true, if Deathy is your friend and wasn't hurt by your action.
I insult my friends all the time. In fact, they're nearly always the
only ones I *do* malign. It's fun.
> If nothing else, the award made Deathy happy, which is a good thing. And
> even if Deathy had won based solely on the ill wishes of those who voted for
> him, they would have failed because of that. You don't ridicule someone for
> the sake of seeing their smile.
If you really enjoyed the fanfic, more than any other, and you didn't
mean to hurt Deathy's feelings, and his feelings *weren't* hurt, then I
certainly can't find fault with your vote. And *if* the other votes all
matched up with that, then I think Mery's "malicious" charge would be
disproven.
On the other hand, if some of the other voters weren't Deathy's friends,
and didn't care about his feelings (even if they weren't explicitly
trying to hurt him), and were voting for it because "it was so
pathetically awful it was funny," then it *would* be a negative thing.
And of course, there's the question of whether Deathy was *trying* to
write a good fanfic and failing, or trying to write a bad fanfic and
succeeding. If it was in fact the latter, then anyone who found humour
in it's awfulness wouldn't be maligning Deathy at all, but would be
congratulating him on doing exactly what he intended to do. But I don't
think any of the voters really thought that was the case, did they? :-)
Túrin
What's interesting is trying to write a "so bad it's funny" fanfic and
ending up with a "so bad it's just bad" fanfic. That's what really
stinks.
Merytneith
> I guess it might be amusing, if the same thing hadn't happened already years
> previous. WARendfeld got lots of votes in his prime, too. 'Course, those
> years, I voted for stuff by Hooks and Jung and Powers. I'd seen dumb fanfic
> win loads of Trannies votes before -- why would it be any more novel now?
> That's so 1998.
So your justification boils down to --essentially-- "it's
okay because everybody's doing it"?
> If there's mockery to be had, it's that the serious fanfiction I'd read
> during the course of the year didn't have the impact and longevity to my
> attention span that Deathy's fic did.
That doesn't address the question I put to you. I asked
whether or not you could say that there was no mockery
involved in the way you actually voted on *Deathy's* story.
Your opinion about other entrants is irrelevant to *that*
question.
> Mind, this might speak more about my
> individual tastes, but isn't this what the Trannies are about? Individual
> taste? There's times I've been intrigued by "serious" fanfiction, but that
> hasn't been for a while.
Why are you so upset with *me*, then? If, just as I said
earlier, you can honestly say that mockery played no part in
your voting decision, then what do you care?
> And, yeah, sure, I wrote "serious" fanfic in 2001, too. It might have
> gotten a vote. I don't care. It was fun to write, and I'm glad some people
> enjoyed it. I'm not, however, going to go on a nasty, bitter crusade about
> how it lost to "Dinobot's Old Technology."
One post and a conversation between myself and ONE other
person is the equivalent of a "nasty, bitter crusade" to you?
> I felt that you were maliciously mischaracterizing the, oh, four people who
> voted for "Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution." Myself being among them.
No, I was criticizing the *action*, Walky, not the people
*taking* the action. I had, until this thread, *no idea*
who the identities of the voters were. I didn't *care*, and
even now I hold exactly *zero* personal animosity toward you
or anyone else who voted the same way.
Let's just say for the sake of argument that you *did*
intend to mock Deathy by voting for him. Again, why do you
care so much about the fact that I find this action
deplorable, if it is perfectly justified in *your*
estimation? Does my criticism really mean so much to you,
or is your own faith in the justifiability of your actions
so weak that you feel the need to rail against it with the
kind of snarling sarcasm that you have used in the last two
posts?
Our conversations with each other have, in the past, been
suffciently genial to the point that I am really quite
surprised and even a little perturbed that you categorically
refuse to grant me the *least* benefit of the doubt, taking
personally the comments I have made which were not personal
in nature and dishing out such gall as to turn the entire
topic into a flamewar.
> I've only responded in kind. After all, I'm the "malicious" one who seeks
> to undermine society and slander the mentally handicapped with my
> diabolical, contemptuous undermining of the political process.
No, *Snuffy* was the one who responded *in kind*. He and I
had a very reasonable discussion where we each elucidated
our own points of view and came to a mutually satisfactory
conclusion, albeit not a uniform one. Your reaction, on the
other hand, is the same reaction I would expect from someone
if I had shot his favorite dog dead in the street. Why your
reaction was so starkly hostile when his was not is honestly
beyond me.
----------
Look, neither you nor myself particularly relish flamewars
on ATT. If you're really unwilling to grant me the least
bit of latitude to express a strong opinion that runs
contrary to yours, then fine-- I'll grant it to you instead.
I am sorry, Walky, that you and I apparently hold such
completely different opinions on this matter that the
expression of one necessarily stirs up the hostile feelings
of the other. I am sorry that my words offended you
personally, despite the fact that such was never my
intention. I am sorry for whatever turn of phrase it was
that I used which set you off into an explosion of anger and
invective, because I *certainly* never wanted nor intended
to provoke that kind of reaction out of you or anybody else.
I hope you find this satisfactory, Walky, because I
honestly have no idea what else to say.
Merytneith
> This is where our conflict lies. I don't believe mocking or teasing someone
> is inherently mean or cruel. I doubt there is anyone who hasn't teased or
> made fun of a friend and meant no harm by it.
Well, that is true. I suppose it is the appearance of the
ease by which I imagine someone could be hurt if they were
in Deathy's position which makes me rather distrustful of
the practice as a whole. The fact that Deathy apparently
took it all in stride is a good thing, but not enough (from
my perspective, anyway) to ameliorate my overall concerns. :/
> It's nice this is settled. I think we can agree that this isn't a hostile
> disagreement at all, and any perceived slights that may arise are likely not
> intended.
I agree wholeheartedly.
> Bad choice of words on my part. I didn't mean accepted so much as I meant
> accounted for. It's not something we should accept and leave at that, but
> it's almost guaranteed presence is something we have to be aware of and take
> into account when examining any election/contest.
Ahhhh okay, I understand now. I think I can agree with that
statement as well.
> I see and understand your view now, but I just can't think of the whole
> thing as negatively as you do. Just because something has it's roots in
> something that isn't good doesn't mean it has to end there.
Well, you're not the first person to disagree with me, nor
(I suspect) shall you be the last, but I appreciate your
sharing your perspective-- even if I have to take the
opposite position. :)
Snufalufamus Prime
> Yay, philosophical discussions!
Damn straight. 'Deep' is my middle name.
>> I don't believe mocking or teasing someone
>> is inherently mean or cruel. I doubt there is anyone who hasn't teased or
>> made fun of a friend and meant no harm by it.
> This is true, if Deathy is your friend and wasn't hurt by your action.
I won't go so far as to say Deathy's my best pal or anything, but the
limited conversation I've had with him has been civil. And even if that
weren't true, there was no insult intended with my vote, even if (as Mery
pointed out) it may have come from the same place an insult would.
> I insult my friends all the time. In fact, they're nearly always the
> only ones I *do* malign. It's fun.
Does that mean when you called my Sureshock page evil you were really
befriending the little orange bugger?
> If you really enjoyed the fanfic, more than any other, and you didn't
> mean to hurt Deathy's feelings, and his feelings *weren't* hurt, then I
> certainly can't find fault with your vote. And *if* the other votes all
> matched up with that, then I think Mery's "malicious" charge would be
> disproven.
That's exactly how it was with me. Walky said his vote wasn't intended to
insult Deathy, and I doubt Hooper X or the other voter cast that vote with
the sole intention of making Deathy cry.
> On the other hand, if some of the other voters weren't Deathy's friends,
> and didn't care about his feelings (even if they weren't explicitly
> trying to hurt him), and were voting for it because "it was so
> pathetically awful it was funny," then it *would* be a negative thing.
It wasn't that it was bad that got it the votes, it was that it was
enjoyable. No one went out of the way to put a bad fanfic there. That would
be easy, there's lots of it out there. Deathy's was more enjoyable so it got
the vote. (And again I want to say that by bad I mean as a matter of
technical writing and storytelling skills.)
_______________
Snuf
ShadowWing
"Sky Shadow"
>
> I agree, but what I was saying was that in a category of "Best Fanfic,"
> perhaps elements of style ought to be considered, while it wouldn't be
> necessary to do so with the "Funniest Fanfic" category. In terms of their
> construction as stories, "3 Bodies Evoltion" and "Jax Makes a Sandwich"
> contain bad spelling (even the title of Deathy's was misspelled),
> nonsensical plots and faulty grammar, while TFG14VR's story wasn't even
> about Transformers and insulted people on this newsgroup. On the other
> hand, there are many comedy fanfics which *are* well constructed and could
> perhaps be seen as 'better' fanfics than these.
Different people have different tastes, and that will, in turn, affect
their views. For example, I think Zobovor has stated that he doesn't enjoy
reading fanfic that are done script-style as opposed to the regular
story-style. Yet he doesn't immediately call fanfics like ATT The Movie or
my Beast Machine fanfics crap. (Were one to say that about ATT Wars, they'd
be right, which is why I won't put it up on my site.) But he still disagrees
with the script-style for whatever reason he may have. Whatever Deathy was
going for, and knowing Deathy I'm not sure I want to know (^_^), it
apparently garnered him enough support to win.
Now while I agree TFG14VR's stories were insulting, cruel, and just
plain wrong--which is why I went so far as to killfile [FUNFIC] and TFG14VR
himself to avoid it and not waste my limited time bringing it up just to
mark it as read--someone else may think it was good because of or in spite
of author's intent. (Said intent tends to be another one of those debates
around here, mostly on the "good/evil faction" debates.) I personally don't
agree with them, and also can't understand how they even got voted for, but
to, intentionally or *otherwise*, insult anyone who voted for them by
claiming they're doing damage to the "best fanfic" category is a tad harsh.
Walky, for example, states he didn't like much of the "serious" fanfic that
was put out. That doesn't mean he's "pissing on the category", as he and
others were accused of. Heck, I can't bring myself to watch most of the
movies out there, whether the majority like them or not. Yet I happily have
"Steel" in my movie library and quite enjoy it, despite the fact that it
played for literally one day around here. Does that make my preferences any
less valid?
Sky Shadow
> If any of these writers were insulted by me not voting for them, um, let
me
> know.
Personally I don't care who you voted for, and good on Deathasaurus for
writing such a loved and enjoyed prize-winning fanfic. I just found your
saying that 'everyone's "serious" fanfics were all crap' as offensive as the
offense you felt at Mery saying what she did about people who voted for
Deathy.
> But spare me your hubris.
I'm sorry, I apologise for my arrogant tone.
Sky Shadow
> Well, I can't speak for Walky, but I myself would never take my ballot
> seriously, seeing as how the Trannies, like everything else dealing with
the
> TF world, aren't *meant* to be taken seriously. It's supposed to be *fun.*
Which is absolutely true, but that doesn't mean there aren't aspects of the
fandom that individuals do take seriously. Much as you feel passionately
about Beast Wars, my main 'niche' in the fandom is fanfiction which, I
admit, does occasionally result in stupid opinionated outbursts from myself.
Anyway, I apologise for my recent diatribe, and shall try to curb the
tendency towards such behaviour in future.
David Willis
years
> > previous. WARendfeld got lots of votes in his prime, too. 'Course,
those
> > years, I voted for stuff by Hooks and Jung and Powers. I'd seen dumb
fanfic
> > win loads of Trannies votes before -- why would it be any more novel
now?
> > That's so 1998.
> So your justification boils down to --essentially-- "it's
> okay because everybody's doing it"?
Absolutely not. You missed my point. My point was *why* would I do it for
the motives you've ascribed to me? It's been done. Dull. Old hat. The
old love isn't there no more. The thrill of newness and adventure is gone.
Instead, I do it for another reason, you see. Reasons that aren't so
malevolent.
> > If there's mockery to be had, it's that the serious fanfiction I'd read
> > during the course of the year didn't have the impact and longevity to my
> > attention span that Deathy's fic did.
> That doesn't address the question I put to you. I asked
> whether or not you could say that there was no mockery
> involved in the way you actually voted on *Deathy's* story.
> Your opinion about other entrants is irrelevant to *that*
> question.
I have answered that. I voted for it because it brought me joy. Voting on
it to mock Deathy is dumb. Brick wall, you see. It's no fun to pick on
people who don't get the joke. I'm all about the reaction. Deathy brings
no such reaction. *woosh* Over head. No fun.
I.
Voted.
For.
It.
Because.
It.
Brought.
Me.
Joy.
Ask me about "mockery" again and I'll throw my hands up in the air and
scream.
> One post and a conversation between myself and ONE other
> person is the equivalent of a "nasty, bitter crusade" to you?
It's what I've extrapolated from your few posts on the matter, yes. I might
be building bridges out of clouds, but the manner at which you post on this
subject is very ... full of Big Heavy Hate. Perhaps it's the way I read
your words. Perhaps it's the Oddysey-length tread last year about this very
subject and the "don't fuckin' do it again" aside that started this up again
the other day. It seems to be one of your hot buttons, like the misuse of
the English language.
> > I felt that you were maliciously mischaracterizing the, oh, four people
who
> > voted for "Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution." Myself being among them.
>
>
> No, I was criticizing the *action*, Walky, not the people
> *taking* the action. I had, until this thread, *no idea*
> who the identities of the voters were. I didn't *care*, and
> even now I hold exactly *zero* personal animosity toward you
> or anyone else who voted the same way.
Well, the heck if I can tell from your tone.
> Let's just say for the sake of argument that you *did*
> intend to mock Deathy by voting for him. Again, why do you
> care so much about the fact that I find this action
> deplorable, if it is perfectly justified in *your*
> estimation? Does my criticism really mean so much to you,
> or is your own faith in the justifiability of your actions
> so weak that you feel the need to rail against it with the
> kind of snarling sarcasm that you have used in the last two
> posts?
If I did intend to mock Deathy by voting for him, I wouldn't be arguing with
you. Because, uh, then I'd be lying, you see. Why would I speak up if I
didn't have something to say that's contrary to your argument? Should I
rail against your words with snarling sarcasm if you're right and I'm wrong?
I'm just sticking up for myself. You don't seem to be able to understand
that I can vote for Deathy without doing it to make him look dumb. You
understand it so little that whenever this topic comes up you
mischaracterize everyone involved as malicious bullies who like to kick
retards for shits n' giggles. No other option will do for you. There is no
blue pill.
That is why I am angry.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Sky Shadow
> So you're saying Deathy's fic isn't as good because it didn't take as long
> to write?
No, actually I was saying that I didn't like the way that Walky dismissed an
entire year's worth of 'serious' fanfic as "crap" in the amount of time and
effort that it took David himself to write one sentence.
Nevertheless...
For all we know it took Deathy the same amount of effort to write
> his story as it did any one of the other writers to create one of their
> pieces.
That's quite possible. Here's the URL for the text in question:
http://www.tfradio.net/archive/ravage3bodies.htm
I must say, that as an English teacher I'd be very concerned if any of my
students had written this story and honestly claimed that it had taken them
any more than a few hours. The writer obviously hasn't even used any time
to spellcheck it, and due to the ignorance it displays in the use of
punctuation, capitalisation, spelling, grammar and structure, I would have
to look carefully at some of the student's other work. If that was of a
similar 'quality' to '3 Bodies...' and truly the result of effort then I
would recommend his parents test him for dyslexia or other learning
disabilities. I'd also be seriously concerned about my abilities as a
creative writing teacher. And let's face it, Deathy is an adult, not a high
school student.
I hope with all my heart that '3 Bodies...' did *not* have the same amount
of time and effort put into it as the other writers of fanfiction that I
mentioned put into theirs (i.e. more than a few days, weeks, months or even
years), since it would suggest that Deathy almost certainly has disabilities
that would severely impede his ability to perform simple everyday
communicative tasks. For that reason, I sincerely hope and believe that
Deathy did *not* put a great deal of time or effort into '3 Bodies
Evoltion.'
Finback
> I've been thinking that to avoid the controversy of *that* particular
> thread, if nobody's willing to compile a list then maybe individuals could
> keep adding to *this* thread with the fanfics that they themselves completed
> in 2002 (and are thus eligible for the Trannies.)
Just as an incidental thought, not all fanfics are sent to ATT, nor do
their authors post them to ATT.. so I'm sure we'll see some nominated
that don't appear familiar to many.
Fin...@animail.net
"Where fish and grevilleas meet to greet".
Merytneith
> If I did intend to mock Deathy by voting for him, I wouldn't be arguing with
> you. Because, uh, then I'd be lying, you see. Why would I speak up if I
> didn't have something to say that's contrary to your argument? Should I
> rail against your words with snarling sarcasm if you're right and I'm wrong?
All right, after reading your reply I've taken the time to
re-think and re-evaluate everything.
I am sorry, Walky. You are completely right, and I have
been completely wrong and unreasonable. My tone was
unjustifiably condescending from the beginning. I have no
excuse for my subsequent behavior.
I hope you will accept my apologies, as they are offered
with all sincerety.
--Merytneith
Brian Kilby
>
> For that reason, I sincerely hope and believe that
> Deathy did *not* put a great deal of time or effort into '3 Bodies
> Evoltion.'
If memory serves, Ravage 3 Bodies Evolution took Deathy about four hours to
write.
Brian Kilby
David Willis
> with all sincerety.
It's okey dokey. I'll buy you a mocha latte.
--David
www.itswalky.com
Pyre
> Comedies have won best picture in Hollywood, I believe, but I don't
> follow those awards enough to recall.
The difference there is that those films were written to intentionally be
funny. I don't believe Deathy's was.
--
Pyre[Rock] - pyres...@crosswinds.net
http://pyresdomain.crosswinds.net/
"Escape is my reality."
Pyre
>
> Well, I can't speak for Walky, but I myself would never take my ballot
> seriously, seeing as how the Trannies, like everything else dealing with the
> TF world, aren't *meant* to be taken seriously. It's supposed to be *fun.*
I think this right here gets to the heart of it and personally I think
this whole discussion only proves how futile it is to use the Trannie
results as a basis of what is or isn't good or how this fandom thinks.
The Trannies are supposed to be fun and entertaining. They aren't the
Emmys. They aren't the Grammys. They aren't even the MTV awards. By my
count there were 46 votes in the Best Fanfic category in last years
Trannies. So out of those 46 people, only 4 of them thought Deathy's fic
was worthy of that title. 42 people felt otherwise. There were 37
different fanfics voted for. 4 of those got 2 votes. 1 of them got 3.
31 fanfics got 1 vote. The Trannies are supposed to be fun. Seeing what
people voted for are supposed to be fun. The results of that mean squat.
Túrin
> "Túrin" <morm...@NOSPAMknoledge.org> wrote...
> > I insult my friends all the time. In fact, they're nearly always the
> > only ones I *do* malign. It's fun.
>
> Does that mean when you called my Sureshock page evil you were really
> befriending the little orange bugger?
Uh... no. No. No.
Túrin
Hence the qualifier "nearly" in my post. :-)
Neale Davidson
crap.
I feel so warm and fuzzy now...
Neale Davidson
Merytneith
>>Well, I dunno. Maybe I thought everyone's "serious" fanfics were all
>>
> crap.
>
> I feel so warm and fuzzy now...
Hey, Neale?
This was a long, unpleasant flamewar that, happily enough,
is now *over*.
There is absolutely *no* good reason for you to stir it up
again.
--Mery
Robert Jung
Hey, if "Titanic" can win the "Best Picture" Oscar (1997), Deathy --
or anyone else -- can win whatever Trannies they get votes for.
--R.J.
B-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other
people are amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's
also fine." --Frank Zappa
-- rj...@mac.com ---------------- http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/ --
Neale Davidson
> again.
I just felt a bit disheartened by the comment, that's all. I do
ask myself a lot why I bother with so many fan-fics at times,
and this sort of comment adds a bit to the sting, ya know?
Neale Davidson
Merytneith
> I just felt a bit disheartened by the comment, that's all. I do
> ask myself a lot why I bother with so many fan-fics at times,
> and this sort of comment adds a bit to the sting, ya know?
Look, I'm sorry that I ever made the stupid original post in
the first place, and I am *really* quite unhappy with the
fact that I caused a flamewar in the process. So if you
would just do me the outstanding favor of letting it die-- I
would really appreciate it.