Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Transformers and Christianity?
1,261 views
Skip to first unread message
ultra.m...@hotmail.com
Dec 12, 2012, 11:46:38 PM12/12/12
to
I don't know if this is some kind of controversial subject to
discuss, or one that would offend Christians, but I see some
parallels to the G1 cartoon continuity and the Holy Bible.
For instance, the Transformers may have at least three
contradictory origin stories, but if Primus is their creator
then he can be viewed as God... in a contorted kind of sense.
I mean, he created the Transformers and all is good at first, like
in the garden of Eden. While the fall from grace experienced
in the G1 fiction isn't as quick as eating a forbidden fruit,
it did happen through the same twisted views people attribute
the devil as possessing. According to some Lucifer was vain and
believed himself to be higher than the lesser humans, so he
desired to be worshiped. Megatron is kind of the same way. He
believed it was the Decepticons' right to rule Cybetron. Taking
power for himself caused him to "fall from grace."
Now... This is all a big stretch. I won't argue that. And I
may have just offended large groups of fans with this post, but
it was on my mind and I felt it worthy of discussion.
Thinking more about it now, I guess Optimus Prime is kind of
a Jesus-like figure. He's supposed to bring about a new
gold age of Cybertron, correct?
Anyone else notice these things?
discuss, or one that would offend Christians, but I see some
parallels to the G1 cartoon continuity and the Holy Bible.
For instance, the Transformers may have at least three
contradictory origin stories, but if Primus is their creator
then he can be viewed as God... in a contorted kind of sense.
I mean, he created the Transformers and all is good at first, like
in the garden of Eden. While the fall from grace experienced
in the G1 fiction isn't as quick as eating a forbidden fruit,
it did happen through the same twisted views people attribute
the devil as possessing. According to some Lucifer was vain and
believed himself to be higher than the lesser humans, so he
desired to be worshiped. Megatron is kind of the same way. He
believed it was the Decepticons' right to rule Cybetron. Taking
power for himself caused him to "fall from grace."
Now... This is all a big stretch. I won't argue that. And I
may have just offended large groups of fans with this post, but
it was on my mind and I felt it worthy of discussion.
Thinking more about it now, I guess Optimus Prime is kind of
a Jesus-like figure. He's supposed to bring about a new
gold age of Cybertron, correct?
Anyone else notice these things?
Travoltron
Dec 13, 2012, 12:58:59 AM12/13/12
to
On 12/12/2012 8:46 PM, ultra.m...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thinking more about it now, I guess Optimus Prime is kind of
> a Jesus-like figure. He's supposed to bring about a new
> gold age of Cybertron, correct?
He does tend to die and then get resurrected. A lot.
> Thinking more about it now, I guess Optimus Prime is kind of
> a Jesus-like figure. He's supposed to bring about a new
> gold age of Cybertron, correct?
Unicron is obviously intended to be like Satan. I recall the comic
having a neat issue with a satanic Unicron cult.
Chad Rushing
Dec 13, 2012, 1:28:43 AM12/13/12
to
On Dec 12, 11:58 pm, Travoltron <travolt...@defender.uni> wrote:
>
> Unicron is obviously intended to be like Satan. I recall the comic
> having a neat issue with a satanic Unicron cult.
One major difference between Unicron and the Biblical Satan would be
>
> Unicron is obviously intended to be like Satan. I recall the comic
> having a neat issue with a satanic Unicron cult.
that Satan is a created being (actually a rebellious angel) with all
of the limitations that come with that while Unicron is as much of a
cosmic deity as Primus, if I recall my Transformers mythos correctly.
In that sense, Satan would be a more like a powerful version of The
Fallen rather than Unicron himself.
- Chad
ultra.m...@hotmail.com
Dec 13, 2012, 1:43:14 AM12/13/12
to
post (there were a lot of other things I wanted to bring up
and didn't because I felt blasphemous enough as it was). I
didn't bring up Unicron as Satan because I felt that if Satan
was the creation of God, as I guess the biblical texts say,
then Unicron couldn't really be an allegory for Satan.
I like your explanation better! Though... Unicron does have
a creator... Like I said, so much of the G1 origins can
contradict themselves.
Chad Rushing
Dec 13, 2012, 1:46:41 AM12/13/12
to
On Dec 12, 10:46 pm, ultra.magnot...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I don't know if this is some kind of controversial subject to
> discuss, or one that would offend Christians, but I see some
> parallels to the G1 cartoon continuity and the Holy Bible.
No offense taken whatsover ...
>
> I don't know if this is some kind of controversial subject to
> discuss, or one that would offend Christians, but I see some
> parallels to the G1 cartoon continuity and the Holy Bible.
> For instance, the Transformers may have at least three
> contradictory origin stories, but if Primus is their creator
> then he can be viewed as God... in a contorted kind of sense.
> I mean, he created the Transformers and all is good at first, like
> in the garden of Eden. While the fall from grace experienced
> in the G1 fiction isn't as quick as eating a forbidden fruit,
> it did happen through the same twisted views people attribute
> the devil as possessing. According to some Lucifer was vain and
> believed himself to be higher than the lesser humans, so he
> desired to be worshiped. Megatron is kind of the same way. He
> believed it was the Decepticons' right to rule Cybetron. Taking
> power for himself caused him to "fall from grace."
the Biblical God in that he is a component of the universe rather than
its transcendent creator. That is, I don't recall any reference to
Primus that stated that he existed before the material universe --
although Vector Sigma once claimed, "Before Cybertron was, I was," or
something to that effect -- and brought it into existence, although he
might have created/became Cybertron itself.
> Now... This is all a big stretch. I won't argue that. And I
> may have just offended large groups of fans with this post, but
> it was on my mind and I felt it worthy of discussion.
>
> Thinking more about it now, I guess Optimus Prime is kind of
> a Jesus-like figure. He's supposed to bring about a new
> gold age of Cybertron, correct?
>
> Anyone else notice these things?
Optimus was the one who was killed but was later resurrected (by
Quintessons), while Hot Rod was the one chosen by the mystical Matrix
to light their "darkest hour," defeating Unicron in the process. The
Golden Age of Cybertron at the end of G1 really wasn't accomplished by
either of them, though, but by Spike and the Nebulons if I recall
correctly.
That all being said, the hero dying tragically only to come back to
save the day is a very familiar trope in modern fiction, although I am
convinced that it actually happened once -- and only once -- in real
life during the first century AD.
- Chad
Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
Dec 13, 2012, 5:06:49 AM12/13/12
to
with ancient mythology than Christian mythology. The Primus origin, Unicron
and the original 12 Transformers, and the legacy of the Primes, all fit
better with a more explicitly polytheistic religion. The Allspark fits with
Preacher Casey's "one big soul", but thats an idea found in non-christian
religions more than christian. Also, there's no notion of salvation in
Transformers -- even in Beast Machines, where Primal gets a do-over, he is
condemned to fight Megatron for eternity.
But, stories have power, and I don't doubt that some biblical stories have
inspired tv episodes or comic issues.
>> Now... This is all a big stretch. I won't argue that. And I
>> may have just offended large groups of fans with this post, but
>> it was on my mind and I felt it worthy of discussion.
>>
>> Thinking more about it now, I guess Optimus Prime is kind of
>> a Jesus-like figure. He's supposed to bring about a new
>> gold age of Cybertron, correct?
>>
>> Anyone else notice these things?
>
> G1 Optimus Prime and Rodimus Prime sort of shared a messianic role.
> Optimus was the one who was killed but was later resurrected (by
> Quintessons), while Hot Rod was the one chosen by the mystical Matrix
> to light their "darkest hour," defeating Unicron in the process. The
> Golden Age of Cybertron at the end of G1 really wasn't accomplished by
> either of them, though, but by Spike and the Nebulons if I recall
> correctly.
>
> That all being said, the hero dying tragically only to come back to
> save the day is a very familiar trope in modern fiction, although I am
> convinced that it actually happened once -- and only once -- in real
> life during the first century AD.
doing the exact same thing... Which simply makes the miracle that much more
compelling!
Onslaught Six
Dec 13, 2012, 5:28:14 AM12/13/12
to
On Dec 13, 1:43 am, ultra.magnot...@hotmail.com wrote:
> (there were a lot of other things I wanted to bring up
> and didn't because I felt blasphemous enough as it was).
You worry too much. You're talking to a guy who wrote a song called
> (there were a lot of other things I wanted to bring up
> and didn't because I felt blasphemous enough as it was).
Blasphemer that was written as if Gary Numan was the voice of God, and
had my friend in a screamo band sing it.
> I like your explanation better! Though... Unicron does have
> a creator... Like I said, so much of the G1 origins can
> contradict themselves.
being. Other origins point them as being part of large pantheons of
dudes who are equally omniscient and powerful, but were destroyed in
their own endless war. IDW doesn't mention Unicron, funnily enough,
but recently gave us a completely new--and AWESOME--Primus origin.
Onslaught Six
Dec 13, 2012, 5:31:46 AM12/13/12
to
On Dec 13, 1:46 am, Chad Rushing <notu...@aol.com> wrote:
> Primus is really more similar to the gods of ancient mythology than
> the Biblical God in that he is a component of the universe rather than
> its transcendent creator. That is, I don't recall any reference to
> Primus that stated that he existed before the material universe --
> although Vector Sigma once claimed, "Before Cybertron was, I was," or
> something to that effect -- and brought it into existence, although he
> might have created/became Cybertron itself.
Some of the more modern interpretations would veer in that direction,
> Primus is really more similar to the gods of ancient mythology than
> the Biblical God in that he is a component of the universe rather than
> its transcendent creator. That is, I don't recall any reference to
> Primus that stated that he existed before the material universe --
> although Vector Sigma once claimed, "Before Cybertron was, I was," or
> something to that effect -- and brought it into existence, although he
> might have created/became Cybertron itself.
because certain writers in the mid-2000s had some big stupid obsession
with making Earth "as important to the Transformers as Cybertron" on a
mythic level, like they're always constantly "destined" to end up on
Earth to explain why it happens in so many canons, and I always really
hated that because it seems to cliche and stock and crappy--it's much
cooler (and funnier) if Earth is just a victim of circumstance, and
that the TFs could have landed on any other planet--and indeed, they
have in other possible universes--than to have Primus somehow
mystically guiding them there.
At least one comic series definitely tried to portray Primus as being
far more omniscient than just TFs, though, and tried to paint him as
creating all life in the Universe. It was bad.
Travoltron
Dec 13, 2012, 6:34:51 PM12/13/12
to
Oh yeah, I forgot one.
Ezekiel encountered some bizarre identical four-faced creatures that
descended from the Heavens in glowing wheels.
http://bible.cc/ezekiel/1.htm
Ezekiel encountered some bizarre identical four-faced creatures that
descended from the Heavens in glowing wheels.
http://bible.cc/ezekiel/1.htm
ultra.m...@hotmail.com
Dec 13, 2012, 10:22:19 PM12/13/12
to
Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.
Dec 14, 2012, 10:42:23 PM12/14/12
to
as the Jews labored under the Egyptians. Who would be the Transformers
equivalent of Moses?
Shin Hibiki
Dec 14, 2012, 10:55:47 PM12/14/12
to
"Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People." <Ob1k...@att.net> wrote:
>And here I was thinking the Transformers labored under the Quintessons
>as the Jews labored under the Egyptians. Who would be the Transformers
>equivalent of Moses?
Well, A-3 would probably be the closest thing. He just has
>And here I was thinking the Transformers labored under the Quintessons
>as the Jews labored under the Egyptians. Who would be the Transformers
>equivalent of Moses?
the Coda Remote instead of a staff. :P
- Shin Hibiki
----
The race ain't over yet, baby
It's only just begun
They thought they had it won, baby
But soon we'll have 'em on the run
Zobovor
Dec 14, 2012, 11:27:24 PM12/14/12
to
On Dec 14, 8:42 pm, "Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People."
Tailgate. "Let my fellow mechanical beings go!"
Zob
Tailgate. "Let my fellow mechanical beings go!"
Zob
Thaddeus Cultt
Dec 15, 2012, 5:20:59 PM12/15/12
to
Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!
Randal Graves: No sir. They are not a gift from God. They are an unholy
curse from the beast we call the Desolate One.
Elias: I don't really want to hear this Randal.
✞ℍᗩᎠᎠƎυƧ C̤̈υℓ✞✞
--
People are like penguins, stab them in the head and they die.
Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
Dec 15, 2012, 9:09:16 PM12/15/12
to
On Saturday, December 15, 2012 2:20:59 PM UTC-8, Thaddeus Cultt wrote:
>
>
> Elias: Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the
> Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!
>
> Randal Graves: No sir. They are not a gift from God. They are an unholy
> curse from the beast we call the Desolate One.
>
> Elias: I don't really want to hear this Randal.
But, clearly the Transformers are part of God's plan. And Energon was either evidence that it isn't a very good plan, or some kind of cruel test.
>
>
> Elias: Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the
> Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!
>
> Randal Graves: No sir. They are not a gift from God. They are an unholy
> curse from the beast we call the Desolate One.
>
> Elias: I don't really want to hear this Randal.
Onslaught Six
Dec 16, 2012, 2:57:24 AM12/16/12
to
On Dec 15, 5:20 pm, Thaddeus Cultt <jud...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Elias: Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the
> Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!
> Randal Graves: No sir. They are not a gift from God. They are an unholy
> curse from the beast we call the Desolate One.
> Elias: I don't really want to hear this Randal.
"The only thing worse than the Transformers was those fucking hobbit
> Elias: Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the
> Transformers are like a gift from God, Randal!
> Randal Graves: No sir. They are not a gift from God. They are an unholy
> curse from the beast we call the Desolate One.
> Elias: I don't really want to hear this Randal.
movies."
Thaddeus Cultt
Dec 17, 2012, 7:50:43 AM12/17/12
to
take a walk so he could saunter over to Frodo and suck his fucking cock.
Now *that* would have been an Academy Award worthy ending."
Thaddeus Cultt
Dec 17, 2012, 7:50:44 AM12/17/12
to
0 new messages