[BOOK/AD] A.P. Robot Artist to Attend BotCon
Douglas Dlin
advertisement-type posts for A.P. products here--but it'll all be
topical, I promise.
Recently, A.P.'s current top robot-drawing artist, Sherard Jackson,
confirmed his attendance at BotCon. Sherard authored the miniseries
SEMANTIC LACE, which was published through Devil's Due/Image, and has
since done the tragic mech-war story ASSEMBLY for us. He's also been a
long-time fan of TFs and robots in general. Now he showcases his love
of and expertise with shape-changing mechanisms in HOW TO DRAW
TRANSFORMING ROBOTS, due out at the end of May/early June. With all
that obvious enjoyment of TFs and similar, it's small wonder he wanted
to attend BotCon and OTFCC.
Thanks to the generosity of Alan "Weapon X" Liangco, Sherard has a table
for BotCon, and if he can swing enough income, he may try to make OTFCC
as well. (I'm not registered as a dealer for either, so I couldn't make
that offer, sad to say.)
Check out the preview of his latest book, some 25 pages of it, in the
Previews section of our web site, www.antarctic-press.com. If you like
it, tell him at the con!
Doug Dlin
apcog at hotmail.com
SteveD
together and said:
>Recently, A.P.'s current top robot-drawing artist, Sherard Jackson,
>confirmed his attendance at BotCon. Sherard authored the miniseries
>SEMANTIC LACE, which was published through Devil's Due/Image, and has
>since done the tragic mech-war story ASSEMBLY for us. He's also been a
>long-time fan of TFs and robots in general. Now he showcases his love
>of and expertise with shape-changing mechanisms in HOW TO DRAW
>TRANSFORMING ROBOTS, due out at the end of May/early June.
It's got to be better than PLEX's "Let's Draw Manga: Transforming
Robots" by Yasuhiro Nitta. I learned a valuable less from that book -
always look between the covers before buying.
Weak art, weak examples, very little useful instruction or technique,
and the overriding assumption that PLEX was the only corporation in the
entire universe who had ever sold transforming robots. Which were
equally weak.
Don't get me wrong. Transformers are great, but I have no compunction
learning about well-designed transforming robots by companies other than
Hasbro or Takara. The PLEX robots, however, are bad. Really bad. Monster
Pretender robot mode bad. Quickswitch and the Pretender Beasts look like
Masterpiece Convoy next to these things. Don't let this book come near
anyone unfamiliar with the genre; they'll be repulsed for life.
One of the great how-NOT-to examples of the modern era.
Sherard's book, on the other hand, sounds like it might be something to
look forward to.
-SteveD
--
Look, show me an anatomically correct Cybertronian and we'll talk!
- Nerroth
crazysteve
> Check out the preview of his latest book, some 25 pages of it, in the
> Previews section of our web site, www.antarctic-press.com. If you like
> it, tell him at the con!
So will he have the books at the convention? I was floored by the
quality of the material. 20 bucks for 192 pages of this type of
in-depth engineering theory is a steal. This book functions not only
as an artist's manual, but a how-to course in transformable toy
engineering. I needed this book two years ago! Please tell me they'll
be ready by Botcon. Do you have the scoop on what a possible volume
two would cover?
--
crazysteve with rubber tires
http://www.scrambledcity.com
SteveD
together and said:
>Douglas Dlin <ap...@texas.net> meticulously glued three electrons
>together and said:
[Sherard Jackson]
>> Now he showcases his love of and expertise with shape-changing
>> mechanisms in HOW TO DRAW TRANSFORMING ROBOTS, due out at the
>> end of May/early June.
>
>It's got to be better than PLEX's "Let's Draw Manga: Transforming
>Robots" by Yasuhiro Nitta.
Ugh, following up to myself. Bad form. However, I was curious about
books and other resources in general for people who are interested in
drawing Transformers.
Some resources are aimed at the beginner, some at the journeyman artist,
and some at the pro. They cover different areas and aspects of the art,
and are useful at different times.
Having said that, here's some ultra-quick book reviews.
1. Christopher Hart's _Mecha Mania_
Covers basic geometric shapes and gives some examples of how to turn
them into robot components. There are some colored examples in the book,
and although color is not touched on, careful study can extract some
shading-related techniques. The book skims over a wide field, using a
page here and there. Few in-depth items, but a good index for what you
might know know you didn't know.
Camera angles, robot hand types, joint variations, feet, design
technique to give your character a certain 'feel'. Shoulder flares.
Design style evolution from the 50s to the early 21st century (check out
the 80s and 90s examples, they scream "Transformers!"). Weaponry and
kibble. Embellishment. Incorporating nonhumanoid aspects. Moving panels
which conceal or reveal mecha parts and systems. A few pages on
transforming robots and a brief mention of how to use this aspect for
story purposes. Action techniques. Expression and emotion. Perspective.
Marine, land, air and space designs. Surfaces and lighting. Posture to
convey mood or story.
There's also a lot of stuff relating to non-Transformer design - piloted
mecha, human characters in mecha shows, aliens, etc. Recommended for
those just starting out, who have picked up a pencil and want to try
something with it.
2. Christopher Hart's _Manga Mania : Fantasy Worlds_
Yep, same guy as above. This is a more generic book, covering character
types and settings, along with smatterings of technique, design, and a
whole bunch of other stuff. Like _Mecha Mania_, it's more an index of
things you might want to do further research on. These include physique,
action poses, foreshortening, camera angles, turnarounds, teching up
older designs (fantasy, knights etc), multi-character brawls, suspense
and antagonist/hero designs, prototypical settings, animalistic and
fantastic aspects of characters, body shapes and costuming, special
effects (weapons fire), and uses of incorrect anatomy. It ends with a
couple of pages of steampunk how-to. Recommended for beginners.
3. Christopher Hart's _How to Draw Comic Book Heroes and Villains_
I promise that this is the last Hart book on the list. It covers topics
such as Heroic Anatomy, head shapes, lips (and eyes), hairstyles (which
can be adopted somewhat for robot head designs), exaggerating facial
expressions, assembling an action pose, male vs female proportions, the
anatomy of hands, and heroic hand gestures. It continues with fight
depictions - stupendous punches, lunges, killer kicks, and body throws.
Also covered are ways to make average features and bodies look
villanous, and where to swipe facial features from to create certain
effects. The book moves onto quick anatomy, perspective,
three-dimensionality, and some words on when to use which angles for
what effect. Some special effects - types of energy bursts and
background effects, explosions - and it's on to composition, standard
storytelling shots, layouts, and pencils vs inks. Some inking secrets
and techniques and and art supplies list follow, before the text moves
on to reflective material, light sources, shading, linewidths, cloth and
costumes. Then it's straight into weaponry - handheld and mobile. This
segues into vehicles of many types and finishes up with a minisection
about How To Be a Comic Book Artist.
Recommended for beginners.
4. Christopher Hart's _Anime Mania_
OK, so I lied. I have no idea how I ended up with four of this guy's
books when I wasn't looking for titles by him.
Very Manga/Anime-oriented, as you might imagine. It covers many standard
character types, and basic anatomy construction for anime bodymodels.
Some notes on perspective, and then it's a rapid flyby of mecha
construction and transformable robots, vehicles and explosions,
including the vertical "punch up into the stratosphere" beam-explosion.
Some water effects, and it's on to the importance of sketching and
composition.
Storyboards get a mention as a lead-in to the section on animator's
tools, which turns into Stuff You Need To Know and finishes with notes
about living in Japan.
Recommended for artists who haven't delved into Japanese characters and
storylines before, and need a quick primer.
And now, on to some non-Hart books!
5. _Manga Techniques : Drawing Manga For Beginners_
Volume one in the series. It starts off by reminding you you need paper
and a pencil. Then, zap! Into features, anatomy, manga proportions,
poses, composition, backgrounds, perspective, hatching, tone, many
environmental effects, speed lines, more on tone, light sources, and
sound-effect lettering.
The middle of the book dives into art tools, and then it's back to
characterisation, speech bubbles, and page creation. The book actually
has some heavy art paper in the back, so you have an idea what to look
for.
The book does contain multiple spelling and grammatical errors- at
least, my version does. I guess English editors were in short supply
when this one was published.
Recommended for: the enthusiastic novice who has no frickin' idea where
to start.
6. _Manga Techniques : Robot Design Techniques for Beginners_
Volume three in the series.
Stilted English, example art paper in the back. This is _How to Turn
People into (Mostly) Humanoid Manga Robots_ 101. It assumes you know
something of basic human forms and goes from there.
Recommended for non-robot artists who want a quick primer on how to do
mecha, plus anyone interested in robot kibble.
7. _Manga Techniques : Character Design for Beginners_
Volume four in the series.
Designing your character. Basic comic anatomy and features. Different
styles and facial features in each style. Expressions. Exercises. Art
paper in the back.
Recommended for technical or non-character artists who want to draw
human or humaoid figures in realistic poses or motions.
8. Hikaru Hayashi's _How to Draw Manga : Illustrating Battles_
This book assumes you can already draw humanoid characters. Attacks,
defences, dodges, throws, superspeed afterimages, slaps, kicks,
palmstrikes, elbows and knees, hammerstrikes, martial arts, chops,
blocks, motion lines, battle poses, grabs, locks, and grappling are all
covered from the delivering and receiving ends. It ends up with some
commercial-grade examples of battle scenes from various artists.
Fanservice and spelling errors aside, this is a very useful book.
Recommended for artists who can already draw characters, but want to
beef up or vary their combat scenes.
9. Katsuya Yamakami's _How to Draw Manga : Mech. Drawing_
Texturing motherlode! This book gives techniques on how to turn a flat
line drawing into plastic, glass, rubber, and the all-important Shiny
Metal (from simple polish up to Chrome). It details the differences
between flesh and steel, shows what different pen types can do, and goes
on to cover tone, hatching, shading, and solid shadows. All the examples
are mechanical - robots, vehicles, space stations, weaponry, you name
it.
3D geometric shape construction and perspective are tackled together,
along with exactly how to get circles looking right. Different vehicle
types are analysed and broken down, including the space shuttle and
twin-rotor helicopters. An extremely Jetfire-esque transformer
demonstrates transformation, external armor, and swing-wings. Chapter
four covers ultravehicles and M.A.S.K.-style vehicle hybrids. Shotoro
Kaneda's bike's poor cousin makes an appearance, hero and villain robots
take the stage, and there's guns! Including the rather hefty
shoulder-mounted beam cannon, which looks like it was ripped off a
starcruiser. Animecha and heavy power suits round out the section.
Next come speed lines, explosions, lighting effects, weaponry and rocket
blasts, and effects lettering. An appendix of quick perspective
techniques finishes the book.
Recommended for anyone drawing mechanical items, robots or scenes. Don't
let the cover put you off, everything inside is G-rated.
10. Hikaru Hayashi's _How to Draw Manga : Giant Robots_
The first sixty-seven pages go over how to design your own robots from
scratch. Some useful techniques, even if you'll mainly be drawing
pre-defined characters. There's some nice paragraphs on shiny metal
effects and curved surface panels, and then it's onto detailing. The
hundred small mechanical details you can add to a robot to make it look
real and 3D. Then be prepared for guns, guns, barrels, muzzles, turrets,
guns, missile racks and guns.
Some notes on tires, tracks and wings are followed by color coding, and
then rocket blasts and beam effects. A page of explosions gives some
nice examples. Some rather tacky 3D wireframe models show how far CGI
has come since the book was published, but then it's time for Femmes to
take the stage. Some useful tips and a splash of fanservice later, the
book's done. Stick a fork in it.
Recommended for: Giant-robo artists, Transformers included.
11. Christopher Hart's _Manga Mania : Villains_
What? I have _more_ books by this guy? Geez, you'd think he was the only
author on the shelves.
While this book covers mainly human villains, some points are still
valid for Transformers artists. The guides to facial features,
expressions, and body types are useful, as are notes on basic picture
composition. There's a whole section on action poses and scenes, bad-guy
fighting styles, and another on superhuman abilities and weapons.
Page 122, though, is the start of the How To Make Your Robots Look More
Evil guide. Very nice indeed. Dramatic camera angles and shadowing are
next, with silhouetting techniques followed by Comic Panel Layouts Used
By Pros. A few pages on locations and backgrounds round the book off.
Recommended for artists who want more villanous villains and evil in
their work.
12. Christopher Hart's _How to Draw Comic Book Bad Guys and Gals_
Look, I swear I never noticed the author's name when I bought these, OK?
Must have been a sale on that day or something.
Anyway, on with the book. Evil facial expressions and Evil Hands start
us off. Some basic anatomy later, we come across How to Turn a Good Guy
Design Into a Bad Guy, which is very interesting.
On to posing and camera angles, which culminate in the Good Guy/Bad Guy
pose and posture comparison table. This alone is probably worth the
cover price. Some character acting lessons later, and we get into urban
warfare, aka Hitting Each Other With Bits of the Street.
The next section covers lighting, and how to use it to make characters
appear good or evil. The penultimate section is a field guide to bad guy
stereotypes. Some notes on artwork composition, panel flow and
storytelling round off the book.
Recommended for artists who want bad-guy techniques, but more
Americanized than Manga-style.
13. Betty Edwards' _The New "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain"_
An art book for the utter beginner who has no idea how to draw anything.
If you can't even draw a stick figure, this book is for you.
Interestingly enough, the book does not focus on ten thousand little
techniques, methods of constructing objects from eleborate geometries,
or the 'technical' method of drawing. Instead, it teaches how to use the
fuzzy, woolly, nonverbal side of the brain - which just happens to be
fascinated with light, shadow and form, and doesn't know that you can't
draw to save your life.
My own take: the techniques work. I did an art course last year where we
learned precisely how to drop into the right-brain mode, and I can now
do charcoal portraits lifelike enough to scare me, replicate anything I
see like the world's slowest photocopier, and capture the essence of a
pose in a line. If you've never done anything creative before, you can
easily freak yourself out with how easy it is.
That said, the book is not the best way to learn the required mindset.
It's as dry as dust and about as exciting as waiting for Godot. Find a
good art teacher who teaches the course that goes with the book. Keep
the book around for refresher exercises.
14. There is nooooooo book fourteen! What, you think I'm nuts? Go read a
bunch of Internet sites that teach drawing, art and Photoshop
techniques. Browse Transformer fanart sites. Buy a lot of commercial
Transfomer art (Dreamwave, comic compilations, posters etc) and see if
you can spot what techniques they used. Maybe take a night class in
beginner's art.
Above all, DRAW. Every artist has ten or a hundred sketchbooks full of
total crap that they never show anyone.
So, what other resources are there out there?
-SteveD
--
"My life was changed forever the day I held aloft my magic sword and
turned into a truck."
- Heli
Douglas Dlin
> Douglas Dlin <ap...@texas.net> meticulously glued three electrons
> together and said:
>
>
>>Now he showcases his love
>>of and expertise with shape-changing mechanisms in HOW TO DRAW
>>TRANSFORMING ROBOTS, due out at the end of May/early June.
>
> It's got to be better than PLEX's "Let's Draw Manga: Transforming
> Robots" by Yasuhiro Nitta. I learned a valuable less from that book -
> always look between the covers before buying.
[snip description of PLEX's similar book]
Well, as noted, we've got a few sample pages in the Previews section of
our web site, so we're definitely not shying away from showing you the
interior before you buy. I would say it's better than PLEX's book just
based on your description of the latter, but then, I'm also biased.
Take a look and decide for yourself how they measure up. Crazysteve
seems to like them. :-)
Douglas Dlin
> ---Douglas Dlin:
>
>>Check out the preview of his latest book, some 25 pages of it, in the
>>Previews section of our web site, www.antarctic-press.com. If you like
>>it, tell him at the con!
>
>
> So will he have the books at the convention?
Absolutely.
> I was floored by the
> quality of the material. 20 bucks for 192 pages of this type of
> in-depth engineering theory is a steal. This book functions not only
> as an artist's manual, but a how-to course in transformable toy
> engineering.
That was the goal. Mission obviously accomplished--and in just a
25-page preview, no less! He'll be tickled to read this.
> I needed this book two years ago! Please tell me they'll
> be ready by Botcon.
We're hoping they'll be ready in time for Project: A-Kon, but that's
only about a week away, and they're being printed at Quebecor, so I'm
not sure how close that'll cut it. They should definitely be ready for
BotCon.
> Do you have the scoop on what a possible volume
> two would cover?
'Fraid not. I wasn't sure on the details of what THIS one would cover
until Sherard wrote it. :-) (The general ideas, yeah, but not so
in-depth as, say, chapter breakdown.)
Grebo
cy...@thelanddownunder.com (SteveD) wrote in message news:<40b45ddf...@news.netspeed.com.au>...
M Sipher
quickly grew out of "drawing exactly what I see" and decided that the best
bet was to look at the model of what I was gonna draw, then draw it in a
whole new pose. And for preference not in the exact style of whoever drew
the original.
As such, I never got any of th e"how to" books, and just collected the books
of finished art and model sheets and ran from there. And when it comes to
TFs, drawing from the toys always helped me because it made me think of what
I was drawing more as a 3D object than a line drawing... "can this even MOVE
if drawn like this?"
Then again, I always approached artstuff backwards. I learned to draw in pen
as a first step, which made me try harder to not fuck up in the first place
(I pencil everything first now, but as a result, my pencils tend to look
more "finished" than normal). I start with the face, usually the eyes, and
work OUT from there. I've found that if you can get the expression down, the
body language just flows afterwards.
M "Drove My Few Art Teachers Nuts" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions
Home of the productions of King Weasel!
Original stuff, Transformers, MegaMan/RockMan and more crap!
http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/simak/109/
SteveD
Yup, went and had a squiz. Nice. The dedication caught me off guard and
I was laughing for most of the rest of the night. Cute choice of
transformation scheme in the example pages... gee, I wonder who that
might be?
I wanted to ask - does the book wander into more complex transformation
schemes? The examples given are great for beginners who want to get a
handle on the transforming mindset, but I wonder if the challenges of
multichangers or semigestalts are mentioned? How about toy-based design
issues (such as electronics, articulation, balance, and accessories) and
how they might contribute to the non-toy form? Are there notes on
character design, color schemes, and/or head, face and feature
construction?
I'm guessing that trying to explain the intricacies of, say, Tripredacus
would fall a little outside the scope of the book, which is fair enough
for an art-focused tome.
-SteveD
--
A layman wants to draw it; An amateur knows how to draw it; A
professional knows when.
Douglas Dlin
> Douglas Dlin <ap...@texas.net> meticulously glued three electrons
> together and said:
>
>
>>On May 26, 2004, SteveD wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Douglas Dlin <ap...@texas.net> meticulously glued three electrons
>>>together and said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Now he showcases his love
>>>>of and expertise with shape-changing mechanisms in HOW TO DRAW
>>>>TRANSFORMING ROBOTS, due out at the end of May/early June.
>>>
>>>It's got to be better than PLEX's "Let's Draw Manga: Transforming
>>>Robots" by Yasuhiro Nitta. I learned a valuable less from that book -
>>>always look between the covers before buying.
>>
>>[snip description of PLEX's similar book]
>>
>>Well, as noted, we've got a few sample pages in the Previews section of
>>our web site, so we're definitely not shying away from showing you the
>>interior before you buy. I would say it's better than PLEX's book just
>>based on your description of the latter, but then, I'm also biased.
>>Take a look and decide for yourself how they measure up. Crazysteve
>>seems to like them. :-)
>
>
> Yup, went and had a squiz. Nice. The dedication caught me off guard and
> I was laughing for most of the rest of the night. Cute choice of
> transformation scheme in the example pages... gee, I wonder who that
> might be?
Ahem...yes, well... <looks away innocently>
You'll find a few familiar designs in that book, but always with enough
different to make them unique.
> I wanted to ask - does the book wander into more complex transformation
> schemes? The examples given are great for beginners who want to get a
> handle on the transforming mindset, but I wonder if the challenges of
> multichangers or semigestalts are mentioned? How about toy-based design
> issues (such as electronics, articulation, balance, and accessories) and
> how they might contribute to the non-toy form? Are there notes on
> character design, color schemes, and/or head, face and feature
> construction?
In order:
- To an extent, but nothing heavily complex.
- They are; as you can see from the preview, one of the robots covered
is a central body component of a combiner, and some elements of having
to become both robot and larger gestalt part are covered in that section.
- Only to an extent, since you won't always be drawing a robot that's
based on a toy or for the purpose of toy creation. There are plentiful
mentions of how the need for attention to toyetic detail can vary
depending on the purpose of your art.
- Nothing on color schemes, as it's a black-and-white book, so
demonstrating anything in that vein would be kinda pointless. It
touches some on the other elements you mention, but I think those points
may be mostly saved for the YCD MECH book.
Bermuda Mohawk
> Douglas Dlin <ap...@texas.net> meticulously glued three electrons
> together and said:
>
> >Recently, A.P.'s current top robot-drawing artist, Sherard Jackson,
> >confirmed his attendance at BotCon. Sherard authored the miniseries
> >SEMANTIC LACE, which was published through Devil's Due/Image, and has
> >since done the tragic mech-war story ASSEMBLY for us. He's also been a
> >long-time fan of TFs and robots in general. Now he showcases his love
> >of and expertise with shape-changing mechanisms in HOW TO DRAW
> >TRANSFORMING ROBOTS, due out at the end of May/early June.
>
> It's got to be better than PLEX's "Let's Draw Manga: Transforming
> Robots" by Yasuhiro Nitta.
Looking at the AP site.....I am gonna say no.
> Weak art, weak examples, very little useful instruction or technique,
> and the overriding assumption that PLEX was the only corporation in the
> entire universe who had ever sold transforming robots. Which were
> equally weak.
I didn't get the idea that PLEX felt there was no other robot
designers, just that they felt they held their own unique design
sense, which they do. Unlike almost the entire Western robot design
culture which copies Dreamwave, at least they have a style of their
own. I am so sick of seeing every Amercian fan artist just mimicing
Dreamwave's art and style, and even see it in the AP How to draw book.
Not to mention the models used are ripped off as well, Optimus Prime!
Fighbird! I have to admit though, I can't stand AP art. Sorry Doug,
but I have always hated the art in your companies books. From the
large preview on the site I have to say I won't like this book's art
or techniques either. Some of which look mimiced from the Plex book.
> Don't get me wrong. Transformers are great, but I have no compunction
> learning about well-designed transforming robots by companies other than
> Hasbro or Takara. The PLEX robots, however, are bad. Really bad.
Yet kids continue to make their designs some of the best selling toys
in multiple markets, trumping Transformers.
> Sherard's book, on the other hand, sounds like it might be something to
> look forward to.
May sound like it, but surely doesn't look like it.
This is one of those books I will not be buying.
--Dave
Not new, just repackaged.
Contact me at: bermudamohawk(a)yahoo.com
"Funky fighting men, from the funky side of town"
Dave Van Domelen
trying to imply that the history of transforming robots was ONLY the history
of PLEX designs. The wording was very much in the "this stuff we have shown
you is the only stuff that exists" mold. I mean, it was literally laugh-
out-loud blatant.
Oh, and PLEX designs may sell better, but that doesn't mean they ARE
better. Power Rangers mecha sell because they're part of the Power Rangers
franchise, but they tend to suck prairie oysters.
Dave Van Domelen, has some MRR toys, and while they're decent, they're
far from great.
Thomas Hamann
Well, it kinda is a different design philosophy...
Instead of the 'hyper-complex/braindead-(too)-simple'-mish-mash which
seems to define the last couple of TF series (from about CR onwards),
Plex went for what comes down to GOOD hommages to the original Machine
Robo toys.
Which means they are simple.
Which IMHO is a good thing.
Thomas
Bermuda Mohawk
news:c957or$vsr$1...@haven.eyrie.org...
> Oh, and PLEX designs may sell better, but that doesn't mean they ARE
> better.
Uhm, selling better means that people like them more.This would tell me that
they feel a certain design is better than another.Maybe not to 20-30 year
old fanboys that demand 40 points of articulation in a 4 inch figure, but to
kids these designs seem to be better, and they count more than we do.
> Dave Van Domelen, has some MRR toys, and while they're decent,
they're
> far from great.
Right, they are so far from the "great" marker they have moved on to
orgasmic.I am not gonna get into it, cause we are heading off the topic of
Transformers here, but the line's gimic blows away the simple Power Linking
concept Hasbro came up with. The play value is just amazing.
Hydra
> "Dave Van Domelen" <dva...@haven.eyrie.org> wrote in message
> news:c957or$vsr$1...@haven.eyrie.org...
>
> > Oh, and PLEX designs may sell better, but that doesn't mean they ARE
> > better.
>
> Uhm, selling better means that people like them more.This would tell me that
> they feel a certain design is better than another.Maybe not to 20-30 year
> old fanboys that demand 40 points of articulation in a 4 inch figure, but to
> kids these designs seem to be better, and they count more than we do.
>
It doesn't necessarily reflect perceptions of the design. A lot of it
comes from identification with the anime, or other merchandise. I
mean. Yu-Gi-Oh toys fly off the shelves, and they are _absolute_ crap,
from a design standpoint. Clearly, kids are just into the game and the
characters. I don't think it has to be much of an issue of design.
Kids ate up all the early Power Rangers series to come out here, and
most of them had very simplistic, cheapy design as well. It's all
about the mass marketing, really.
>
> Right, they are so far from the "great" marker they have moved on to
> orgasmic.I am not gonna get into it, cause we are heading off the topic of
> Transformers here, but the line's gimic blows away the simple Power Linking
> concept Hasbro came up with. The play value is just amazing.
>
Man, do you even like Transformers anymore? I'm not saying Bandai
designs aren't good, but I swear that half the posts you make are
saying, "Bandai did that earlier/better." Just like the Powerglide
post. Do you see people ragging on Machine Robo all the time, so you
feel like you _have_ to be this Bandai crusader? I don't think people
express particularly negative views on it, in general. I just want to
know what motivates you to keep posting here when you seem a lot
interested in MR, and only a little in Transformers.
-Hydra
Bermuda Mohawk
news:6cf1db48.04052...@posting.google.com...
> "Bermuda Mohawk" <deada...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<nZstc.15394$eH1.6...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...
> > "Dave Van Domelen" <dva...@haven.eyrie.org> wrote in message
> > news:c957or$vsr$1...@haven.eyrie.org...
> >
> > > Oh, and PLEX designs may sell better, but that doesn't mean they
ARE
> > > better.
> >
> > Uhm, selling better means that people like them more.This would tell me
that
> > they feel a certain design is better than another.Maybe not to 20-30
year
> > old fanboys that demand 40 points of articulation in a 4 inch figure,
but to
> > kids these designs seem to be better, and they count more than we do.
> >
>
> It doesn't necessarily reflect perceptions of the design. A lot of it
> comes from identification with the anime, or other merchandise. I
> mean. Yu-Gi-Oh toys fly off the shelves, and they are _absolute_ crap,
> from a design standpoint.
Oh? I think some of the designs are rather interesting. I can see why kids
may be attracted to the look of some of the toys. Again, a fanboys view is
not exactly the same as a 6 year olds.
> > Right, they are so far from the "great" marker they have moved on to
> > orgasmic.I am not gonna get into it, cause we are heading off the topic
of
> > Transformers here, but the line's gimic blows away the simple Power
Linking
> > concept Hasbro came up with. The play value is just amazing.
> >
> Man, do you even like Transformers anymore?
Uhm, well....no guess not. Didn't like Beast Machines, didn't like CR/RID,
Armada was crap, and Energon really isn't doing much for me.
> I'm not saying Bandai
> designs aren't good, but I swear that half the posts you make are
> saying, "Bandai did that earlier/better." Just like the Powerglide
> post.
So?
> Do you see people ragging on Machine Robo all the time,
Yes. Isn't that what started me out in this thread? And in several other
threads in the past that kinda ragged on MRR.
> so you
> feel like you _have_ to be this Bandai crusader?
Do you feel you need to be the Japanese equal rights crusader? No, maybe
not, but you are. Maybe you don't do it intentionally, I know better, but
let's say you don't. Isn't it just quick reaction when you post to say
things like you did in the Ai bath thread? I don't come here thinking "okay,
where's some anti-Bandai threreads to jump into", it just isn't what
happens. By the way _where_did_you_pick_up_this_ugly_underscore_thing?
> I just want to
> know what motivates you to keep posting here when you seem a lot
> interested in MR, and only a little in Transformers.
I don't post here often, I don't have the time. I was bored the other day,
and checked out the new threads. Just happnened to see a few snipes at Plex,
who I think are great designers.
--Dave
Not new, just repackaged.
Contact me at: bermudamohawk(a)yahoo.com
"I'd hate to be like certain people I know...They'd sacrifice all their
principles for anything cashable"
Thomas Hamann
>"Bermuda Mohawk" <deada...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<nZstc.15394$eH1.6...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...
>> "Dave Van Domelen" <dva...@haven.eyrie.org> wrote in message
>> news:c957or$vsr$1...@haven.eyrie.org...
>>
>> > Oh, and PLEX designs may sell better, but that doesn't mean they ARE
>> > better.
>>
>> Uhm, selling better means that people like them more.This would tell me that
>> they feel a certain design is better than another.Maybe not to 20-30 year
>> old fanboys that demand 40 points of articulation in a 4 inch figure, but to
>> kids these designs seem to be better, and they count more than we do.
>>
>It doesn't necessarily reflect perceptions of the design. A lot of it
>comes from identification with the anime, or other merchandise. I
>mean. Yu-Gi-Oh toys fly off the shelves, and they are _absolute_ crap,
>from a design standpoint. Clearly, kids are just into the game and the
>characters. I don't think it has to be much of an issue of design.
I don't think kids perceive 'design' the same way as adults do.
>Kids ate up all the early Power Rangers series to come out here, and
>most of them had very simplistic, cheapy design as well. It's all
>about the mass marketing, really.
>
I recall watching the early Power Rangers and pre-Power Rangers Sentai
series on French TV _for_ the robots.
Screw simplistic designs if you can have a giant robot composed of
several cool futuristic vehicles that kick monster butt with swords!
I still want Gingaman's support mechs...so what they're basicly
ultra-simple vehicles that assemble into two large robots?
Besides, since when does 'simplistic design' equal 'uncool cheap
design'?
Sure, some Power Rangers toys didn't have diecast in the US, but their
Japanese counterparts did have diecast, and the lack thereof in the US
versions is just due to keeping in mind high shipping charges.
Sure, most sentai robots have fairly uninvolved transformations, but
personally I'd rather have something I can transform in less than a
minute to play with. At least, that's what I remember from when I was
a kid.
Furthermore, I don't think you can complain about the simplistic
'cheap' designs of Plex's toys, when Transformers has equally 'cheap'
designs.
Throttlebots, Duocons, in fact at least half of G1, all Micromasters,
Flipchangers, Cyberjets, Laser Optimus Prime/Scourge, at least half of
Armada/Energon.
Looking at Transformers as a whole, only Beast Wars, Beast Machines,
and Car Robots had complicated designs.
Heck, the much-reissued Combaticons are about as complicated as or
even simpler than most of Plex designs.
In comparison to Machine Robo Rescue they probably are simpler, except
for Onslaught/Mega-Octane. They also lack diecast. Their combination
ability is geniunely lame in comparison to what Machine Robo Rescue
and Mugenbine pull off.
From that point of view, Energon is a step ahead. Too bad the Energon
designs are a mish-mash of simplistic, good designs, ugly crap, too
many gimmicks, too complicated, and no continuity at all in the
overall design strategy. Armada had the same problem. RiD doesn't
count because it used older molds.
The problem with HasTak is overgimmicked designs. And too many
gimmicks get in the way of the actual design.
In the case of Machine Robo Rescue/MugenBine, the combination
abilities ARE the gimmick. But unlike on many of HasTak's toys, it is
neatly incorporated in the designs from the beginning, in a
non-obstructive way.
I have no problems with some of the Omnicons, but most deluxes and
Megas have ugly combined modes. Inferno will be the only one I will
buy, so far (perhaps Cliffjumper too).
In the main time, I've recently spent 105 Euros on a Diaclone Raiden
Junior, which I thoroughly enjoy. Because it is simple.
>>
>> Right, they are so far from the "great" marker they have moved on to
>> orgasmic.I am not gonna get into it, cause we are heading off the topic of
>> Transformers here, but the line's gimic blows away the simple Power Linking
>> concept Hasbro came up with. The play value is just amazing.
>>
>Man, do you even like Transformers anymore? I'm not saying Bandai
>designs aren't good, but I swear that half the posts you make are
>saying, "Bandai did that earlier/better." Just like the Powerglide
>post.
That Powerglide post explaining what was so hot about Bad Boy was
mine, actually.
>Do you see people ragging on Machine Robo all the time, so you
>feel like you _have_ to be this Bandai crusader? I don't think people
>express particularly negative views on it, in general.
If you call someone saying 'knock-offs, like Gobots' positive...
> I just want to
>know what motivates you to keep posting here when you seem a lot
>interested in MR, and only a little in Transformers.
>
In my case, I have to say that Hasbro registering 'Machine Robot
Rescue' to prevent Bandai from bringing in some rejuvenating
concurrence killed the joy of buying Hasbro's Transformers for me.
Together with the screwed up European prices. And the crap quality
control. I don't want to spend $25 on a Deluxe that feels like a
knock-off. Then I'll rather buy a knock-off.
I still buy Takara's products, but at a much lower rate than before.
Although Da Garn X is a very nice toy...
But I still wait for a perfectly transforming Transformers motorcycle,
something Bandai pulled off in 1985 already...
Thomas
Paul Segal
>
>In my case, I have to say that Hasbro registering 'Machine Robot
>Rescue' to prevent Bandai from bringing in some rejuvenating
>concurrence killed the joy of buying Hasbro's Transformers for me.
Somehow, I doubt that Hasbro's registering that trademark affected Bandai's
plans in any way. Hasbro changes toy names all the time for various reasons,
and often the original name is one that's been around for far longer than
"Machine Robo Rescue". If Hasbro can tag "Autobot" onto various TF names to
make them usable, I'm sure Bandai could've gone with "Machine Robo (something
else)" or another phrase using "robot", "rescue", and another word. If
anything, Hasbro has demonstrated that a toy doesn't need a good or coherent
name to be sold.
I don't see any logical reason to boycott Transformers toys over one petty move
of Hasbro's which probably didn't really affect anything.
-Paul Segal
Email: aster...@yahoo.com AIM: asterphage
http://asterphage.lunarpages.com - toy robots and cosplay photos.
Why u always hatin'?
Thomas Hamann
>Thomas Hamann wrote:
>>
>>In my case, I have to say that Hasbro registering 'Machine Robot
>>Rescue' to prevent Bandai from bringing in some rejuvenating
>>concurrence killed the joy of buying Hasbro's Transformers for me.
>
>Somehow, I doubt that Hasbro's registering that trademark affected Bandai's
>plans in any way. Hasbro changes toy names all the time for various reasons,
>and often the original name is one that's been around for far longer than
>"Machine Robo Rescue". If Hasbro can tag "Autobot" onto various TF names to
>make them usable, I'm sure Bandai could've gone with "Machine Robo (something
>else)" or another phrase using "robot", "rescue", and another word. If
>anything, Hasbro has demonstrated that a toy doesn't need a good or coherent
>name to be sold.
Yes, it would be a great idea for Bandai to bring out a toyline in the
US with a name that is incredibly similar to a name Hasbro registered
first.
They might as well bring it out under the name 'Trasformers'.
However, they'd probably get away with it if they brought it out under
the name 'Robo Machine (Rescue)' (or similar) and started by bringing
it out in Europe, as Hasbro couldn't do anything about it, because
Bandai were first in registering /that/ name in Europe, in the early
1980s.
But well, since Hasbro seems to think they own the rights to the
vintage Gobots, Bandai just has to wait until Hasbro goes too far.
That will be fun.
>I don't see any logical reason to boycott Transformers toys over one petty move
>of Hasbro's which probably didn't really affect anything.
>
The problem is, it did.
It reminds me of Micro$oft...
Thomas
Paul Segal
>
>>I don't see any logical reason to boycott Transformers toys over one petty
>>move
>>of Hasbro's which probably didn't really affect anything.
>
>The problem is, it did.
Do you have any evidence to support this? Besides, of course, the fact that
Machine Robo Rescue was never released in the U.S., because without knowing
about Bandai's internal decision-making, we can't know what their reasons were
for not bringing MRR to the States.
Why do you think that Hasbro's use of the term "Machine Robot Rescue" in the
Transformers line was even a consideration in Bandai's decision to not release
MRR in the U.S.? I doubt that it was a major factor, if it affected their plans
at all. Many anime series undergo drastic name changes before American release.
For instance, Saint Seiya is named "Knights of the Zodiac" in its current
American toyline and TV airing. I don't see why Hasbro's registering of a name
similar to MRR's could have affected Bandai's plans in any way.
Thomas Hamann
Note: due to some new evidence, I have to change my opinion. The good
news is: Machine Robo is probably coming (back) to the US!
>Thomas Hamann wrote:
>>
>>>I don't see any logical reason to boycott Transformers toys over one petty
>>>move
>>>of Hasbro's which probably didn't really affect anything.
>>
>>The problem is, it did.
>
>Do you have any evidence to support this?
Remember that whole discussion about rights infringements regarding
some of the Transformers names? The reason why Hasbro couldn't use
"Hot Rod" for the reissue et al?
It should be obvious that not only Hasbro has this problem. And it
gets worse when the toys concerned use the same design ideas, the same
principles.
If anyone were to release a line of *transforming* toys that has the
potential of getting very popular under a name that ressembles very
closely a name that Hasbro has been using for their own transforming
robots, they are in a mightily unpleasant position, opening themselves
up to lawsuits for name infringement.
"Machine Robo Rescue" vs. "Machine Robot Rescue". One letter
difference. That should sound like a rip-off to anyone.
And wow! They're both transforming robots with a rescue theme!
That's lawsuit material.
> Besides, of course, the fact that
>Machine Robo Rescue was never released in the U.S., because without knowing
>about Bandai's internal decision-making, we can't know what their reasons were
>for not bringing MRR to the States.
>
Using this handy tool:
http://www.nameprotect.com/cgi-bin/FREESearch/search.cgi
Searching for Machine Robo:
Gives this:
1
MACHINEROBO PENDING
009 Electrical and Scientific Apparatus
016 Paper Goods and Printed Matter
025 Clothing
028 Toys and Sporting Goods
041 Education and Entertainment
2
MACHINE ROBO RESCUE PENDING
028 Toys and Sporting Goods
3
MACHINE ROBO RESCUE PENDING
041 Education and Entertainment
4
MACHINE ROBO RESCUE PENDING
009 Electrical and Scientific Apparatus
5
MACHINE ROBOT RESCUE PENDING
028 Toys and Sporting Goods
6
ROBOMACHINES ABANDONED
028 Toys and Sporting Goods
7
BMI ROBOTICS BURNS MACHINERY INCORPORATED CANCELLED
007 Machinery
042 Scientific Computer & Legal (Miscellaneous)
8
ROBOT JOE - A DEVICE THAT ALIGNS THE BODY PASSIVELY, AND
INFLUENCES THE PHYSIOLOGICAL FUNCTION OF THE HUMAN MACHINE
REGISTERED
010 Medical Apparatus
9
SUBTECHNIQUE, INC. VIDEO, TELE-ROBOTICS, AND MACHINE VISION
ABANDONED
009 Electrical and Scientific Apparatus
035 Advertising and Business
042 Scientific Computer & Legal (Miscellaneous)
Check the second, third, fourth, and fifth entries.
The fifth one is by Hasbro, the other three by Bandai or Sunrise.
The sixth entry is also made by Bandai and was intended for an US
release of the 1993 European Robomachines toyline, something that
never happened... :(
I do note that the first entry is fairly recent(it wasn't there last
time I looked), made by Sunrise, and incorporates all the required
categories. And called 'Machinerobo'.
I think the lack of a space between 'Machine' and 'Robo' might be
telling (note 'Robomachines' has the same going, as had the very early
'Robomachine').
I also note that Hasbro's entry has this amusing bit:
Status
PENDING - Final refusal mailed
Status Date
April 19, 2004
Register
Principal
The date is the same as the acceptance date for the first entry. Looks
like Hasbro is screwed.
>Why do you think that Hasbro's use of the term "Machine Robot Rescue" in the
>Transformers line was even a consideration in Bandai's decision to not release
>MRR in the U.S.? I doubt that it was a major factor, if it affected their plans
>at all. Many anime series undergo drastic name changes before American release.
So far for 'drastic name change'.
Some toys have molded details in the shape of a 'M'. The Mobile K-Boy
would need a total face-redesign...
>For instance, Saint Seiya is named "Knights of the Zodiac" in its current
>American toyline and TV airing.
You do know why this is, right?
Saint Seiya has always been called 'Knights of the Zodiac' outside
Japan. In France, Italy, and Spain in the 1980s. However, the manga is
called 'Saint Seiya' in France, as are the non-edited US DVD sets.
>I don't see why Hasbro's registering of a name
>similar to MRR's could have affected Bandai's plans in any way.
>
You are right. I have been too pessimistic.
***
Except that now I can be pessimistic about the amount of money I need
to spend on toys...I haven't got all the Japanese toys yet. I hope
there won't be any major changes to the toys. ;P
Thomas
Paul Segal
>>
>>Do you have any evidence to support this?
>
>Remember that whole discussion about rights infringements regarding
>some of the Transformers names? The reason why Hasbro couldn't use
>"Hot Rod" for the reissue et al?
>
>It should be obvious that not only Hasbro has this problem. And it
>gets worse when the toys concerned use the same design ideas, the same
>principles.
>
>If anyone were to release a line of *transforming* toys that has the
>potential of getting very popular under a name that ressembles very
>closely a name that Hasbro has been using for their own transforming
>robots, they are in a mightily unpleasant position, opening themselves
>up to lawsuits for name infringement.
>
>"Machine Robo Rescue" vs. "Machine Robot Rescue". One letter
>difference. That should sound like a rip-off to anyone.
>
>And wow! They're both transforming robots with a rescue theme!
>
>That's lawsuit material.
This is not evidence - it is speculation. You are assuming that Bandai COULD
NOT change the name of the Machine Robo Rescue line, and that they decided not
to release it in the United States because of the name problem. I fail to see
why you think that Bandai would not change the name, or why Hasbro's use of the
name would prevent them from releasing the toyline under another name.
>>Besides, of course, the fact that
>>Machine Robo Rescue was never released in the U.S., because without knowing
>>about Bandai's internal decision-making, we can't know what their reasons
>>were for not bringing MRR to the States.
>
>Using this handy tool:
>http://www.nameprotect.com/cgi-bin/FREESearch/search.cgi
>
>Searching for Machine Robo:
(snip a bunch of babbling about trademarked names)
This has almost nothing to do with Bandai's decision-making process, or their
reasons for not releasing MRR in the States so far... and it doesn't really
address what you're placing it in response to.
>>Why do you think that Hasbro's use of the term "Machine Robot Rescue" in the
>>Transformers line was even a consideration in Bandai's decision to not
>>release MRR in the U.S.? I doubt that it was a major factor, if it affected
their
>>plans at all. Many anime series undergo drastic name changes before American
>>release.
>
>So far for 'drastic name change'.
>
>Some toys have molded details in the shape of a 'M'. The Mobile K-Boy
>would need a total face-redesign...
Bandai America has released many, MANY toys with incorrect names printed on
them over the past ten years and then some, mostly in the Power Rangers line.
Power Rangers toys often retain initials and emblems from the sentai series
that they are based on, even if the American version does not use those names
or iconography. The cell-phone-shaped morpher from Power Rangers in Space says
"M.E.G.A." even though the name of the series was not the Japanese name
(Megaranger), and the phone toy even plays the Megaranger theme song, which was
never used in the Power Rangers show.
Compared to that, a bunch of M initials on the robots is not even close to a
compelling reason to keep the name "Machine Robo".
Bandai America changes the name of a sentai series into "Power Rangers
Something Something", *once a year*. They should have no problem thinking of a
new name for MRR, even one that starts with M.
>>For instance, Saint Seiya is named "Knights of the Zodiac" in its current
>>American toyline and TV airing.
>
>You do know why this is, right?
>
>Saint Seiya has always been called 'Knights of the Zodiac' outside
>Japan. In France, Italy, and Spain in the 1980s. However, the manga is
>called 'Saint Seiya' in France, as are the non-edited US DVD sets.
You are missing my point. Regardless of the previous use of "Knights of the
Zodiac" in Europe, it is still a clear contemporary example demonstrating that
Bandai America is more than willing to release a Japanese anime and its
associated toyline in the United States under a different name. Why should they
be more attached to the name "Machine Robo" than they were to "Saint Seiya"?
>>I don't see why Hasbro's registering of a name
>>similar to MRR's could have affected Bandai's plans in any way.
>
>You are right. I have been too pessimistic.
Jeez, you argue with all my points for pages, and then say I'm right? I'm
confused.
M Sipher
news:20040530231438...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> Compared to that, a bunch of M initials on the robots is not even close to
a
> compelling reason to keep the name "Machine Robo".
Huffer, Gears and Brawn all had M's molded into them for "Microchange", yet
they got released as TFs. Some Topspins still have "DAS" (for Diaclone
Attack... Something) on their wing decals.
M "Just Sayin'" Sipher
Lunchbox
> In order:
> - To an extent, but nothing heavily complex.
> - They are; as you can see from the preview, one of the robots covered
> is a central body component of a combiner, and some elements of having
> to become both robot and larger gestalt part are covered in that section.
> - Only to an extent, since you won't always be drawing a robot that's
> based on a toy or for the purpose of toy creation. There are plentiful
> mentions of how the need for attention to toyetic detail can vary
> depending on the purpose of your art.
> - Nothing on color schemes, as it's a black-and-white book, so
> demonstrating anything in that vein would be kinda pointless. It
> touches some on the other elements you mention, but I think those points
> may be mostly saved for the YCD MECH book.
>
What is this YCD: MECH book?
Thanks in advance
Doug Dlin
> What is this YCD: MECH book?
YOU CAN DRAW MECHA will be similar to YOU CAN DRAW TRANSFORMING ROBOTS,
but with a broader look at robots and mecha, not just transforming
robots. Beyond that, I won't know details of the contents until the
author writes them. :-) It's due out in August.