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"Transformers Transform!" British fans and the original Transformers cartoon
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Tim Roll-Pickering
Jun 14, 2014, 11:20:18 AM6/14/14
to
[I wrote this a while ago but couldn't think where to submit it. So I
decided to go back to fan roots.]
The catchphrase "Transformers Transform!" is almost unknown, even amongst
Transformers fans in the United Kingdom. When it comes to the various
versions of the Generation 1 story, most fans here have only one preferred
version, the Marvel comic. The cartoon may have found new admirers in this
century, but for a long time it was largely dismissed and ignored.
How this situation came about can be explained by a number of factors
including scheduling, distribution and a one-sided rivalry. The results have
clearly impacted in the long run.
In order to explain the problems with the cartoon's screening, it is first
necessary to briefly sketch the television environment in which it debuted.
The structure of British television, especially ITV, can be quite confusing
to many both abroad but also at home, though a lot of the detail is not
necessary for understanding the Transformers situation. It is, however,
helpful to avoid the terms "network", "affiliate" and "syndication"
altogether.
At the time in the 1984-1989 period the main outlets for children's
television were either the BBC, CITV, TV-AM or Channel 4. The BBC had two
channels and ran children's programmes on weekday afternoons, weekend
mornings and, during school holidays,[1] weekday mornings. Channel 4 have
over the years run some children's programming in the early morning but not
much else.[2] CITV was the umbrella children's programming brand for the
various ITV stations who broadcast from 09:25 [3] until the end of the
day.[4] Like the BBC it ran children's programmes on weekday afternoons,
weekend mornings and, during school holidays.[1] Finally TV-AM broadcast at
breakfast time 06:00 until 09:25 on ITV across the whole of the UK and
produced its own programmes. It showed children's programmes at weekends and
during school holidays.
It's also key to note that television series were almost never transmitted
by more than one broadcaster.[5] Indeed the BBC and the ITV stations had a
gentlemen's agreement to not try to poach popular imported shows from each
other.[6] Nor did series usually migrate from TV-AM to other ITV stations.
Finally a major problem for researching the basic history of a show that
appeared on TV-AM is the limitation of TV listings. Until the 1990s
restrictions on listings meant that they were only available in two places -
either TV Times, the ITV magazine that carried details of the week on ITV
and Channel 4,[7] or else on the day in newspapers. However for whatever
reason details for TV-AM were not always available. On some occasions it was
listed as though it was a single programme. Even when details were given of
its programmes they did not itemise the offerings of magazine shows, let
alone give episode details for cartoons run on them.
Although there are limitations, neither a basic search of listings nor
anecdotal memory suggests that the Transformers cartoon was ever broadcast
on any terrestrial television other than TV-AM. This means that it had
limited opportunities to be screened.
TV-AM's main children's offerings in this era were "Wide Awake Club" on
weekend mornings and the shorter spin-off "WACaday" on school holiday
weekday mornings. Both were magazine format shows (then a common feature of
weekend morning children's television) that crammed a mixture of cartoons,
live action series, music, interviews, games, new reports and other features
into a short space of time, with in camera presenters providing links and
banter. Unfortunately because of the broad range of the audience and the
limited time available (two hours for Wide Awake Club but less than an hour
for WACaday, both including adverts) it was necessary to take some shortcuts
to fit everything in. Cartoons in particular could suffer and it was common
for the Wide Awake Club to cut a circa twenty minute cartoon in half and
either spread the two segments across a show or else split it across both
Saturday and Sunday. WACaday had even more limited time and so often cut
cartoons into five segments and stripped them across an entire week. Such a
practice may have been a necessity and made the supply of new episodes last
a long time, but it also made a series difficult to follow and gain a loyal
audience, especially if the WACaday offerings changed from holiday to
holiday.
Whether the Transformers cartoon appeared only on WACaday or also on the
Wide Awake Club at weekends as well is subject to uncertainty of memory, not
helped by the two shows using the same or a similar set and, initially, both
including Timmy Mallet (as part of the Wide Awake Club ensemble and as the
solo or lead presenter on WACaday). Memories of the show's initial
appearance are focused on the 1985-86 school year in which at least most of
the first season episodes were run and possibly also some second season
ones. A second, and much less remembered run, came in the summer of 1987
when WACaday ran some of the first season episodes again; clips on YouTube
cut out the cartoon itself but the recap given confirms the episodes shown
included "The Ultimate Doom". The catchphrase "Transformers Transform!" was
used by Timmy Mallet as part of the introduction to at least one of the 1987
screenings; it was clearly an adaptation of the phrase "Go-Bots go botty!"
used for when that series had been run.
In the grand scheme of things this was a rather brief run. Not everyone
watches breakfast television and brevity can leave an even slighter mark.
There's also the problem that WACaday had a slightly young pitch and is very
much of its era so as a result many later found it embarrassing to admit to
having watched it, suppressing memories further. As a result the cartoon's
impact was minimal.
In contrast similar shows from around the time such as He-Man and the
Masters of the Universe/She-Ra Princess of Power, Thundercats and Teenage
Mutant Hero Turtles [8] fared much better, being picked up by either the BBC
or CITV and so whole episodes were transmitted in one go at the rate of once
a week. All three also briefly enjoyed the Holy Grail of complete episodes
being transmitted five days a week on school holiday mornings at one stage
or another. Consequently they made a much greater impact.
The Transformers cartoon had two other outlets. In the later 1980s at least
one satellite station picked up some of the later episodes. But these were
the early days of satellite with a low take up. There were also a string of
videos released, starting with "Arrival from Cybertron" (aka "More Than
Meets The Eye") and including variously "Desertion of the Dinobots",
"Megatron's Master Plan" and "The Key to Vector Sigma/War Dawn". Later on
another company picked up the rights and released further tapes. Although
video recorder penetration hit 50% of UK households in 1987, not everyone
would have had the money to accumulate a collection, or the easy opportunity
to hire the episodes that out - or for that matter the ability to watch them
all the time on the household machine. But still it was something.
However none of these were enough to establish the cartoon as a strong force
amongst the developing Transformers fans. For it faced strong competition
from the comic. The British comics market was, and still is, heavily focused
on newsagents in both the high street and suburban corner shops and so the
UK Transformers comic had a very wide distribution even when its US
counterpart was caught up in a market that was ever more sucked into the
ghetto of specialist comic shops. Coming out every week [9] it provided a
strong supply of adventures that could be re-read constantly in a way that
even videos couldn't be watched all the time. Furthermore it was reasonably
up to date with the current toys - during Generation 1 the UK tended to get
most new Transformers toys within months of their US release - whereas the
cartoon was somewhat behind, especially during the 1987 screening featuring
toys from 1984 & 1985. And of course the comic went on right up until
1992.[10]
But also the UK comic was rather strident in dismissing the cartoon. The
differences between the two, particularly the back stories and
characterisation, were a regular theme of letters to the comic. With the
letterspages answered in character by a Transformer it was natural to
dismiss these "incorrect" adventures. This was especially the case when
Grimlock answered the letters and was especially eloquent about his upset at
being portrayed as a simplistic idiot on the cartoon. So authority had
spoken and a whole generation of Transformers fans took to heart which was
"right" and which was "wrong".
In the long run this created a rather one-sided approach to Generation 1 by
many British fans. We had a clear canon and we stuck to it. On the rare
occasions we actually got to see the cartoon we found it unimpressive, a
feeling reinforced by reports of rampant continuity errors and poor
animation in the later seasons, especially if it was hard to check them for
ourselves to see how big a problem they actually are.[11]
Has this distorted our view of the overall franchise? It's always hard to
say from the inside on this. But it's not unusual for a fanbase of any
franchise in a particular country to be focused on one area. US Monty Python
fans spring to mind - they tend to focus on the film Monty Python and the
Holy Grail and overlook both the television series and the film the Life of
Brian, both of which have had their own distribution problems and
consequently this can affect the outlook on just what the group were setting
out to do and achieved. Has there been an omission in the fundamental view
of Transformers amongst British fans? And has it been rectified by the
release of the complete cartoon on DVD, or does it remain a curiosity?
Notes
1. School holidays are not uniform across the UK with much variation between
areas, sectors and individual schools. Children's holiday programming
usually aims for the weeks perceived to be the majority of children's
holidays, but many children can miss out.
2. In Wales Channel 4 was not broadcast and instead viewers could access
S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru - which combined Welsh language programming and
some English language programmes from Channel 4. Historically in eastern
Wales a lot of viewers have instead taken the signal from neighbouring
English regions, partially for better reception across the mountains,
partially to access the full English language service.
3. This odd starting time is reportedly due to historic scheduled
engineering tests.
4. In those days television channels used to shut down completely at the end
of the day. They also didn't always broadcast throughout the whole day
either, though the mid 1980s saw a strong expansion in this area.
5. The main exception was S4C who have a long history of commissioning
cartoons that are then dubbed into English and sold to other broadcasters.
6. This had been restated in early 1985 when Thames, the ITV franchise
holder for the London region weekday service, had unilaterally outbid the
BBC for the show "Dynasty". This created a backlash both from the BBC and
within the ITV system, with other ITV stations refusing to take the show and
eventually the series was restored to the BBC with the agreement reinforced.
7. Details of the BBC channels and radio instead appeared in the Radio
Times. Yes if you wanted full listings for the week ahead you had to buy two
separate magazines.
8. Yes, "Hero". That show suffered a lot of censorship due to a backlash
against "ninja". All the related toys and merchandise at the time were also
changed, although the film was left unaltered. By the 2000s the original
name was in use.
9. Except in 1984-5 & 1991-2 when it was fortnightly.
10. And there were also reprint specials that kept going until late 1994.
11. E.G. the Constructicons' origin. When one can actually look at all the
episodes in question it's easy to see their presence in the Five Faces of
Darkness flashback as either a typical animation flub that that story
specialises in or for that matter the same as any number of comic background
cameos by characters who shouldn't be there. And the single line in Heavy
Metal Wars is sufficiently ambiguous to explain away; plus it's contradicted
by the central plot of the Key to Vector Sigma. There are plenty of comic
examples of random dialogue that contradicts what came before or after. But
when one only has the summaries in online reports one could be mistaken for
assuming three separate episodes told full origin stories.
--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c
decided to go back to fan roots.]
The catchphrase "Transformers Transform!" is almost unknown, even amongst
Transformers fans in the United Kingdom. When it comes to the various
versions of the Generation 1 story, most fans here have only one preferred
version, the Marvel comic. The cartoon may have found new admirers in this
century, but for a long time it was largely dismissed and ignored.
How this situation came about can be explained by a number of factors
including scheduling, distribution and a one-sided rivalry. The results have
clearly impacted in the long run.
In order to explain the problems with the cartoon's screening, it is first
necessary to briefly sketch the television environment in which it debuted.
The structure of British television, especially ITV, can be quite confusing
to many both abroad but also at home, though a lot of the detail is not
necessary for understanding the Transformers situation. It is, however,
helpful to avoid the terms "network", "affiliate" and "syndication"
altogether.
At the time in the 1984-1989 period the main outlets for children's
television were either the BBC, CITV, TV-AM or Channel 4. The BBC had two
channels and ran children's programmes on weekday afternoons, weekend
mornings and, during school holidays,[1] weekday mornings. Channel 4 have
over the years run some children's programming in the early morning but not
much else.[2] CITV was the umbrella children's programming brand for the
various ITV stations who broadcast from 09:25 [3] until the end of the
day.[4] Like the BBC it ran children's programmes on weekday afternoons,
weekend mornings and, during school holidays.[1] Finally TV-AM broadcast at
breakfast time 06:00 until 09:25 on ITV across the whole of the UK and
produced its own programmes. It showed children's programmes at weekends and
during school holidays.
It's also key to note that television series were almost never transmitted
by more than one broadcaster.[5] Indeed the BBC and the ITV stations had a
gentlemen's agreement to not try to poach popular imported shows from each
other.[6] Nor did series usually migrate from TV-AM to other ITV stations.
Finally a major problem for researching the basic history of a show that
appeared on TV-AM is the limitation of TV listings. Until the 1990s
restrictions on listings meant that they were only available in two places -
either TV Times, the ITV magazine that carried details of the week on ITV
and Channel 4,[7] or else on the day in newspapers. However for whatever
reason details for TV-AM were not always available. On some occasions it was
listed as though it was a single programme. Even when details were given of
its programmes they did not itemise the offerings of magazine shows, let
alone give episode details for cartoons run on them.
Although there are limitations, neither a basic search of listings nor
anecdotal memory suggests that the Transformers cartoon was ever broadcast
on any terrestrial television other than TV-AM. This means that it had
limited opportunities to be screened.
TV-AM's main children's offerings in this era were "Wide Awake Club" on
weekend mornings and the shorter spin-off "WACaday" on school holiday
weekday mornings. Both were magazine format shows (then a common feature of
weekend morning children's television) that crammed a mixture of cartoons,
live action series, music, interviews, games, new reports and other features
into a short space of time, with in camera presenters providing links and
banter. Unfortunately because of the broad range of the audience and the
limited time available (two hours for Wide Awake Club but less than an hour
for WACaday, both including adverts) it was necessary to take some shortcuts
to fit everything in. Cartoons in particular could suffer and it was common
for the Wide Awake Club to cut a circa twenty minute cartoon in half and
either spread the two segments across a show or else split it across both
Saturday and Sunday. WACaday had even more limited time and so often cut
cartoons into five segments and stripped them across an entire week. Such a
practice may have been a necessity and made the supply of new episodes last
a long time, but it also made a series difficult to follow and gain a loyal
audience, especially if the WACaday offerings changed from holiday to
holiday.
Whether the Transformers cartoon appeared only on WACaday or also on the
Wide Awake Club at weekends as well is subject to uncertainty of memory, not
helped by the two shows using the same or a similar set and, initially, both
including Timmy Mallet (as part of the Wide Awake Club ensemble and as the
solo or lead presenter on WACaday). Memories of the show's initial
appearance are focused on the 1985-86 school year in which at least most of
the first season episodes were run and possibly also some second season
ones. A second, and much less remembered run, came in the summer of 1987
when WACaday ran some of the first season episodes again; clips on YouTube
cut out the cartoon itself but the recap given confirms the episodes shown
included "The Ultimate Doom". The catchphrase "Transformers Transform!" was
used by Timmy Mallet as part of the introduction to at least one of the 1987
screenings; it was clearly an adaptation of the phrase "Go-Bots go botty!"
used for when that series had been run.
In the grand scheme of things this was a rather brief run. Not everyone
watches breakfast television and brevity can leave an even slighter mark.
There's also the problem that WACaday had a slightly young pitch and is very
much of its era so as a result many later found it embarrassing to admit to
having watched it, suppressing memories further. As a result the cartoon's
impact was minimal.
In contrast similar shows from around the time such as He-Man and the
Masters of the Universe/She-Ra Princess of Power, Thundercats and Teenage
Mutant Hero Turtles [8] fared much better, being picked up by either the BBC
or CITV and so whole episodes were transmitted in one go at the rate of once
a week. All three also briefly enjoyed the Holy Grail of complete episodes
being transmitted five days a week on school holiday mornings at one stage
or another. Consequently they made a much greater impact.
The Transformers cartoon had two other outlets. In the later 1980s at least
one satellite station picked up some of the later episodes. But these were
the early days of satellite with a low take up. There were also a string of
videos released, starting with "Arrival from Cybertron" (aka "More Than
Meets The Eye") and including variously "Desertion of the Dinobots",
"Megatron's Master Plan" and "The Key to Vector Sigma/War Dawn". Later on
another company picked up the rights and released further tapes. Although
video recorder penetration hit 50% of UK households in 1987, not everyone
would have had the money to accumulate a collection, or the easy opportunity
to hire the episodes that out - or for that matter the ability to watch them
all the time on the household machine. But still it was something.
However none of these were enough to establish the cartoon as a strong force
amongst the developing Transformers fans. For it faced strong competition
from the comic. The British comics market was, and still is, heavily focused
on newsagents in both the high street and suburban corner shops and so the
UK Transformers comic had a very wide distribution even when its US
counterpart was caught up in a market that was ever more sucked into the
ghetto of specialist comic shops. Coming out every week [9] it provided a
strong supply of adventures that could be re-read constantly in a way that
even videos couldn't be watched all the time. Furthermore it was reasonably
up to date with the current toys - during Generation 1 the UK tended to get
most new Transformers toys within months of their US release - whereas the
cartoon was somewhat behind, especially during the 1987 screening featuring
toys from 1984 & 1985. And of course the comic went on right up until
1992.[10]
But also the UK comic was rather strident in dismissing the cartoon. The
differences between the two, particularly the back stories and
characterisation, were a regular theme of letters to the comic. With the
letterspages answered in character by a Transformer it was natural to
dismiss these "incorrect" adventures. This was especially the case when
Grimlock answered the letters and was especially eloquent about his upset at
being portrayed as a simplistic idiot on the cartoon. So authority had
spoken and a whole generation of Transformers fans took to heart which was
"right" and which was "wrong".
In the long run this created a rather one-sided approach to Generation 1 by
many British fans. We had a clear canon and we stuck to it. On the rare
occasions we actually got to see the cartoon we found it unimpressive, a
feeling reinforced by reports of rampant continuity errors and poor
animation in the later seasons, especially if it was hard to check them for
ourselves to see how big a problem they actually are.[11]
Has this distorted our view of the overall franchise? It's always hard to
say from the inside on this. But it's not unusual for a fanbase of any
franchise in a particular country to be focused on one area. US Monty Python
fans spring to mind - they tend to focus on the film Monty Python and the
Holy Grail and overlook both the television series and the film the Life of
Brian, both of which have had their own distribution problems and
consequently this can affect the outlook on just what the group were setting
out to do and achieved. Has there been an omission in the fundamental view
of Transformers amongst British fans? And has it been rectified by the
release of the complete cartoon on DVD, or does it remain a curiosity?
Notes
1. School holidays are not uniform across the UK with much variation between
areas, sectors and individual schools. Children's holiday programming
usually aims for the weeks perceived to be the majority of children's
holidays, but many children can miss out.
2. In Wales Channel 4 was not broadcast and instead viewers could access
S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru - which combined Welsh language programming and
some English language programmes from Channel 4. Historically in eastern
Wales a lot of viewers have instead taken the signal from neighbouring
English regions, partially for better reception across the mountains,
partially to access the full English language service.
3. This odd starting time is reportedly due to historic scheduled
engineering tests.
4. In those days television channels used to shut down completely at the end
of the day. They also didn't always broadcast throughout the whole day
either, though the mid 1980s saw a strong expansion in this area.
5. The main exception was S4C who have a long history of commissioning
cartoons that are then dubbed into English and sold to other broadcasters.
6. This had been restated in early 1985 when Thames, the ITV franchise
holder for the London region weekday service, had unilaterally outbid the
BBC for the show "Dynasty". This created a backlash both from the BBC and
within the ITV system, with other ITV stations refusing to take the show and
eventually the series was restored to the BBC with the agreement reinforced.
7. Details of the BBC channels and radio instead appeared in the Radio
Times. Yes if you wanted full listings for the week ahead you had to buy two
separate magazines.
8. Yes, "Hero". That show suffered a lot of censorship due to a backlash
against "ninja". All the related toys and merchandise at the time were also
changed, although the film was left unaltered. By the 2000s the original
name was in use.
9. Except in 1984-5 & 1991-2 when it was fortnightly.
10. And there were also reprint specials that kept going until late 1994.
11. E.G. the Constructicons' origin. When one can actually look at all the
episodes in question it's easy to see their presence in the Five Faces of
Darkness flashback as either a typical animation flub that that story
specialises in or for that matter the same as any number of comic background
cameos by characters who shouldn't be there. And the single line in Heavy
Metal Wars is sufficiently ambiguous to explain away; plus it's contradicted
by the central plot of the Key to Vector Sigma. There are plenty of comic
examples of random dialogue that contradicts what came before or after. But
when one only has the summaries in online reports one could be mistaken for
assuming three separate episodes told full origin stories.
--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c
Tim Roll-Pickering
Jun 16, 2014, 7:31:55 AM6/16/14
to
I wrote:
> Memories of the show's initial appearance are focused on the 1985-86
> school year in which at least most of the first season episodes were run
> and possibly also some second season ones.
A further thought springs to mind - *if* the cartoon stopped being shown
> Memories of the show's initial appearance are focused on the 1985-86
> school year in which at least most of the first season episodes were run
> and possibly also some second season ones.
after August 1986 then it would have stopped just before the period widely
considered the golden age of the Marvel UK comic, starting with Target 2006
in issue #78. So just when the comic was surging ahead in sales and stories
the cartoon would have dropped off the radar making the competition between
the two even more one sided.
> A second, and much less remembered run, came in the summer of 1987 when
> WACaday ran some of the first season episodes again;
this was the period when UK comic fans got more TF action than ever - issues
#126-129 ran parrallel to a crossover concluded in Action Force #24-27. The
1987 annual also came out in August that year and possibly also Collected
Comics #6 (reprinting a Dinobot focused story, reinforcing the differences
between the two continuities). #130-145 had the Headmasters story as a
back-up, giving cover to cover TF action. And a lot of these issues focus on
new toys out that year - e.g. the Headmasters, Targetmasters, Throttlebots,
Technobots, Terrorcons, Rodimus Prime (he wasn't released here until 1987)
and Wreck-Garr (ditto) - so the cartoon would have felt even more dated.
Zobovor
Jun 16, 2014, 10:00:33 PM6/16/14
to
On Saturday, June 14, 2014 9:20:18 AM UTC-6, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
> The cartoon may have found new admirers in this century, but for a long
> time it was largely dismissed and ignored.
I've sometimes wondered how much of a culture gap there was for the UK fans of the cartoon. Since the show was written by Americans for American audiences, it was rife with pop culture references that I doubt every British fan watching the show would have understood. Do you think that contributed to its lack of a strong following?
> The cartoon may have found new admirers in this century, but for a long
> time it was largely dismissed and ignored.
Growing up on this side of the pond, I was well familiar with BBC programming like Fawlty Towers and Monty Python's Flying Circus (not just the Holy Grail but the actual TV series) though I must confess I felt like it wasn't "meant" for me as an American, and a lot of the gags went over my head (though this may be partly due to my lack of sophistication as a preteen, since I didn't get a lot of the jokes from Night Court or Cheers, either).
> However none of these were enough to establish the cartoon as a strong force
> amongst the developing Transformers fans.
Anyway, I found it absolutely fascinating that their Transformers experience in the UK had been different than mine. They talked about which toys had, and had not, been made available (it was 1986 by this point) and they showed me Hasbro toy catalogs that were totally different than what I was well acquainted with.
It's so easy to forget nowadays that there was a time when geographic boundaries were practically insurmountable. Growing up, I knew that there *was* a Japan, and I think I was vaguely aware that this was where Transformers had come from, but I had no idea which toys were sold there and I certainly didn't own any. Now, I probably buy just as many Takara toys (or more!) as Hasbro toys and I don't even really give it a second thought. See it on eBay, click my mouse, shows up in my mailbox in two weeks.
My point is that in the early days of the fandom, it was so difficult to substantiate information about the Transformers situation in other countries, particularly Japan or the UK, unless you knew somebody who had lived there. Information is a little more readily available now (I do so love the Internet), but it wasn't always that way, particularly during the time that you're describing.
I'm just glad I didn't grow up in the UK as a Ninja Turtles fan. It's my understanding that they positively butchered the show.
Thanks for the retrospective; I found it interesting.
Zob
Tim Roll-Pickering
Jun 17, 2014, 6:39:00 AM6/17/14
to
Zobovor wrote:
> > The cartoon may have found new admirers in this century, but for a long
> > time it was largely dismissed and ignored.
> I've sometimes wondered how much of a culture gap there was for the UK
> fans of the cartoon. Since the show was written by Americans for
> American audiences, it was rife with pop culture references that I doubt
> every British fan watching the show would have understood. Do you think
> that contributed to its lack of a strong following?
To be honest not really. We're fairly used to American TV being imported
> > The cartoon may have found new admirers in this century, but for a long
> > time it was largely dismissed and ignored.
> I've sometimes wondered how much of a culture gap there was for the UK
> fans of the cartoon. Since the show was written by Americans for
> American audiences, it was rife with pop culture references that I doubt
> every British fan watching the show would have understood. Do you think
> that contributed to its lack of a strong following?
here and so a lot of the pop culture references would be reasonably
familiar. Where we tend to not "get" what American TV is on about is either
when it's excessively product specific - this may be one of the reasons
Seinfeld bombed here - or if it's going on about political stuff. (We just
don't get something being an absolute right just because of what some dead
white guy wrote in 1787 or what some unelected judge says.) But even then
this is minor - arguably the most political of TF episodes is Megatron's
Master Plan but it's easy for a Brit to grasp that an American Mayor is an
elected executive running the city even though at the time our Mayors were
all just presiding officers/official representatives of the borough.
The one point that often *does* confuse me with US cartoons are references
to school. "High school" doesn't signify a particular tier of education here
and references to "5th grade" go over my head because I have no idea what
age that is.
> Growing up on this side of the pond, I was well familiar with BBC
> programming like Fawlty Towers and Monty Python's Flying Circus (not
> just the Holy Grail but the actual TV series) though I must confess I felt
> like it wasn't "meant" for me as an American, and a lot of the gags went
> over my head (though this may be partly due to my lack of sophistication
> as a preteen, since I didn't get a lot of the jokes from Night Court or
> Cheers, either).
stereotypes peculiar to this country. In the post war era class has had less
and less to do with income and is as much about background and cultural
values as about money. There's quite a few sitcoms based around impoverished
aristocrats in conflict with self-made millionaires and many more odd
couples where one is content with their place in life and seeks to maximise
it whilst the other wants to rise above it. There's also no end of fussy
administrators in middle-management with their own aspirations and
frustrations.
I find the Monty Python TV series hard to watch as the team were still
refining their approach and discovering what worked and what didn't. Also a
lot of the character types they mock have faded away - the bowler hatted
civil servant is long gone now. And without indepth knowledge of middle
ranking British politicians of the day it can be hard to get jokes where the
punchline is "Reginauld Maudling" or "Edward Short". By the time of the
films they were aiming at a more generic and global approach but whereas
Holy Grail is an exercise in being silly, doing the unexpected and sending
up legends, the Life of Brian is a satire on religion and politics that
knows exactly where the bodies are buried.
> I'm just glad I didn't grow up in the UK as a Ninja Turtles fan. It's my
> understanding that they positively butchered the show.
and the censors were cracking down on elements. They renamed the entire
franchise (bar the movies) to "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" and cut some of
the weapons down. The nunchukas were a major target and this really alters
one's view of Michaelangelo. It was partially a waste of time because it
seemed everyone knew it was really "ninja" and comedy often used that word
instead. Still it was HUGE at the time.
Gustavo Wombat
Jun 17, 2014, 11:28:36 AM6/17/14
to
"Tim Roll-Pickering" <timrollp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To be honest not really. We're fairly used to American TV being imported
> here and so a lot of the pop culture references would be reasonably
> familiar. Where we tend to not "get" what American TV is on about is either
> when it's excessively product specific - this may be one of the reasons
> Seinfeld bombed here
Seinfeld is excessively product specific? I'm trying to think of any
> To be honest not really. We're fairly used to American TV being imported
> here and so a lot of the pop culture references would be reasonably
> familiar. Where we tend to not "get" what American TV is on about is either
> when it's excessively product specific - this may be one of the reasons
> Seinfeld bombed here
products mentioned in the show... I believe the candy bar the one guy ate
with a fork and knife was mentioned by brand, but I don't think that
mattered.
Perhaps I misremember the show.
(One very key thing about it that might not have translated well culturally
is that every character is a horrible person, who treats people terribly
and never feels the slightest bit of remorse for it)
> - or if it's going on about political stuff. (We just
> don't get something being an absolute right just because of what some dead
> white guy wrote in 1787 or what some unelected judge says.) But even then
> this is minor - arguably the most political of TF episodes is Megatron's
> Master Plan but it's easy for a Brit to grasp that an American Mayor is an
> elected executive running the city even though at the time our Mayors were
> all just presiding officers/official representatives of the borough.
has the authority to banish convicted defendants from the planet? It's
true, or was until the mayoral-judicial system was reformed by President
Clinton.
> This is possibly because a lot of British comedy is based around class
> stereotypes peculiar to this country.
distinctions in America. We acknowledge an upper class of millionaires, but
everyone else thinks they are middle class.
I know people who can live a comfortable life off their investment income
and will never have to work a day in their life, and they think they are
middle class because they only get about $80,000 a year without eating into
the principle.
Tim Roll-Pickering
Jun 17, 2014, 12:22:03 PM6/17/14
to
Gustavo Wombat wrote:
>> Where we tend to not "get" what American TV is on about is either
>> when it's excessively product specific - this may be one of the reasons
>> Seinfeld bombed here
> Seinfeld is excessively product specific? I'm trying to think of any
> products mentioned in the show... I believe the candy bar the one guy ate
> with a fork and knife was mentioned by brand, but I don't think that
> mattered.
> Perhaps I misremember the show.
This was one of the reasons often put out for explaining its poor reception
>> Where we tend to not "get" what American TV is on about is either
>> when it's excessively product specific - this may be one of the reasons
>> Seinfeld bombed here
> Seinfeld is excessively product specific? I'm trying to think of any
> products mentioned in the show... I believe the candy bar the one guy ate
> with a fork and knife was mentioned by brand, but I don't think that
> mattered.
> Perhaps I misremember the show.
here, along with the terrible timeslot it initially got (though it was later
moved to a more fruitful time). I've only ever seen one episode myself and
was half asleep but it just washed over me. It was curious because at the
time a lot of other American sitcoms did very well over here, to the point
they almost dominated the Friday night schedules (and that means something
very different here from the US) yet Seinfeld remains some odd American show
that never entered the British cultural mindset.
> (One very key thing about it that might not have translated well
> culturally
> is that every character is a horrible person, who treats people terribly
> and never feels the slightest bit of remorse for it)
going all the way back to Steptoe and Son, which did a lot to define the
genre here.
>> arguably the most political of TF episodes is Megatron's
>> Master Plan but it's easy for a Brit to grasp that an American Mayor is
>> an
>> elected executive running the city even though at the time our Mayors
>> were
>> all just presiding officers/official representatives of the borough.
> Did you know that a mayor will preside over trials in a sports stadium,
> and
> has the authority to banish convicted defendants from the planet? It's
> true, or was until the mayoral-judicial system was reformed by President
> Clinton.
just accepted the stadium as a rare example of the cartoon remembering these
are giant robots who don't fit into normal human buildings. And deporting
illegal immigrants is common around the world.
Velvet Glove
Jun 17, 2014, 3:24:38 PM6/17/14
to
On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 11:28:36 AM UTC-4, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> (One very key thing about it that might not have translated well culturally
> is that every character is a horrible person, who treats people terribly
> and never feels the slightest bit of remorse for it)
I think one of the reasons Seinfeld bombed in the UK is that the common perception of US entertainment is that Americans don't understand irony. I've certainly seen British critics hold Seinfeld up as proof of American irony, but the British audience assumes that what you see is what you get with American Sitcoms (Friends, Frasier...) So Seinfeld was seen as 'It's funny because it's obnoxious,' but we did not deem that funny.
> (One very key thing about it that might not have translated well culturally
> is that every character is a horrible person, who treats people terribly
> and never feels the slightest bit of remorse for it)
Also, it dealt with a lot of American cultural memes that we weren't familiar with from other sitcoms. Converting to Judaism for the jokes? That's something that would go right over British heads because we're less aware of Judaism as a whole separate culture instead of merely a different religion. And it wasn't exactly a subject Friends would tackle either.
Today, when the mass audience is online, I rather suspect Seinfeld would fare better across the pond, but not back then. My parents, living in the US, loved the show... I caught the odd episode, but it wasn't until 2006 that I sat down and watched the whole thing so I could understand all the references. (One of the best choices I ever made.)
(Along similar lines: Independence Day and Mars Attacks. US loved ID and hated MA; UK hated ID and loved MA.)
Regarding the TF thing, I was in the UK for the first three years of our TF fandom, then in 1987 we moved to the US. I don't recall watching the series before we moved, though my brother is sure we did--but our Transformers canon was most certainly the comics and the ladybird books up until that point. We also had the comic adaptation of the movie. One of the things I often cite when talking about the differences between American and British fans is that for the British, we had Hot Rod introduced as a wise-cracking, jokey young soldier *months* before we saw the movie. I've always held that as why I am such a fan of the Movie and Season three... I preferred Hot Rod to Optimus Prime anyway. That and I found it more exciting when they got into space.
That said, I don't remember the comics well enough to really have them be the Transformers of my nostalgia. I watched the show daily when we moved to the US, and I knew the episodes off by heart by the time we left--it was shortly after that that my brother outgrew the toys anyway, so we didn't resume collecting the comics.
Velvet Glove (Gosh, it's been too long.)
Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.
Jun 17, 2014, 9:23:55 PM6/17/14
to
On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 2:24:38 PM UTC-5, Velvet Glove wrote:
>
> I think one of the reasons Seinfeld bombed in the UK is that the common perception of US entertainment is that Americans don't understand irony. I've certainly seen British critics hold Seinfeld up as proof of American irony, but the British audience assumes that what you see is what you get with American Sitcoms (Friends, Frasier...) So Seinfeld was seen as 'It's funny because it's obnoxious,' but we did not deem that funny.
>
>
>
> Also, it dealt with a lot of American cultural memes that we weren't familiar with from other sitcoms. Converting to Judaism for the jokes? That's something that would go right over British heads because we're less aware of Judaism as a whole separate culture instead of merely a different religion. And it wasn't exactly a subject Friends would tackle either.
>
>
>
> Today, when the mass audience is online, I rather suspect Seinfeld would fare better across the pond, but not back then. My parents, living in the US, loved the show... I caught the odd episode, but it wasn't until 2006 that I sat down and watched the whole thing so I could understand all the references. (One of the best choices I ever made.)
>
>
>
>
> I think one of the reasons Seinfeld bombed in the UK is that the common perception of US entertainment is that Americans don't understand irony. I've certainly seen British critics hold Seinfeld up as proof of American irony, but the British audience assumes that what you see is what you get with American Sitcoms (Friends, Frasier...) So Seinfeld was seen as 'It's funny because it's obnoxious,' but we did not deem that funny.
>
>
>
> Also, it dealt with a lot of American cultural memes that we weren't familiar with from other sitcoms. Converting to Judaism for the jokes? That's something that would go right over British heads because we're less aware of Judaism as a whole separate culture instead of merely a different religion. And it wasn't exactly a subject Friends would tackle either.
>
>
>
> Today, when the mass audience is online, I rather suspect Seinfeld would fare better across the pond, but not back then. My parents, living in the US, loved the show... I caught the odd episode, but it wasn't until 2006 that I sat down and watched the whole thing so I could understand all the references. (One of the best choices I ever made.)
>
>
>
> Velvet Glove (Gosh, it's been too long.)
Seinfeld was just obnoxious to me, so was The Office and 90% of Will Ferrell movies (exceptions made for The Lego Movie and Stranger than Fiction) I still don't find them funny. I dont think that's as much of a cultural thing.
Judoon
Jul 3, 2014, 1:52:36 PM7/3/14
to
This is a fantastic look at differences in the cultural interpretations of
programing. My first experience with British television was Doctor Who (the
Fourth Doctor). I was also quite obsessed with The Flying Circus and Red
Dwarf. I'm really not sure why, but Monty Python's humor always seemed to
resinate more with me than a lot of the US humor at the time. I never
realized how children's programing was handled in other countries, the only
UK (I believe) children's show I originally tried to watch was the K9
series, but it was so far removed from the Doctor Who universe, I couldn't
stand it. Years ago I did quite embrace the Sarah Jane Adventures, but I
think that was written for a wider audience.
In sociology class, we use television as a focal point in study and class
discussion quite often. Would it be OK if I use your fantastic article in
class discussion? I will, of course, give you complete credit, and make no
changes. I think the others in class will gain some insight from it.
Thaddeus Cultt
--
Damn lying squirrels!
programing. My first experience with British television was Doctor Who (the
Fourth Doctor). I was also quite obsessed with The Flying Circus and Red
Dwarf. I'm really not sure why, but Monty Python's humor always seemed to
resinate more with me than a lot of the US humor at the time. I never
realized how children's programing was handled in other countries, the only
UK (I believe) children's show I originally tried to watch was the K9
series, but it was so far removed from the Doctor Who universe, I couldn't
stand it. Years ago I did quite embrace the Sarah Jane Adventures, but I
think that was written for a wider audience.
In sociology class, we use television as a focal point in study and class
discussion quite often. Would it be OK if I use your fantastic article in
class discussion? I will, of course, give you complete credit, and make no
changes. I think the others in class will gain some insight from it.
Thaddeus Cultt
--
Damn lying squirrels!
Tim Roll-Pickering
Jul 3, 2014, 7:21:13 PM7/3/14
to
Judoon wrote:
> In sociology class, we use television as a focal point in study and class
> discussion quite often. Would it be OK if I use your fantastic article in
> class discussion? I will, of course, give you complete credit, and make no
> changes. I think the others in class will gain some insight from it.
Sure. Feel free to email me if you have any questions on specific points.
> In sociology class, we use television as a focal point in study and class
> discussion quite often. Would it be OK if I use your fantastic article in
> class discussion? I will, of course, give you complete credit, and make no
> changes. I think the others in class will gain some insight from it.
Judoon
Jul 16, 2014, 7:02:00 PM7/16/14
to
--
Damn lying squirrels!
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