GI Joe vs TF
Napalm-Rabbit
santino porretta (103...@netrover.com) wrote:
: I used to have this deabate with my schoolmates in public school all the
: time. Which line of toys were more popular? TF or GI Joe? I assume they
: were in a dead heat, with TF barely ahead. Now I know everyone is going to
: say TF of course, but does anyone know for sure? Sales figure perhaps to
: prove it?
: Just something I thought I'd bring up.
Darn, I thought this was like a Death Start Vs. Unicron debate (I can
only *vaguely* remember this thread, it was like freshman year), like
who'd whoop each other's asses, not from a historical marketing point of
view of toy line and sales.
I was so young then...things blended together. For all I know G.I.Joes
were riding Dinobots around on their backs attacking space lego bases
commanded by Skeletor. Such a fun time...sigh...too bad the toys today
suck. We're a unique generation people...a wave of specialists with
unbelievable imaginations and creative potentials. Once we're gone the
world will be ruled by professionals raised on "power rangers", crappy
turtles and batman toys. :P
I'd say Transformers, even though they were pretty head to head. But it
didn't matter really, because Hasbro would win either way. Unless you
remember cabbage patch kids...
D.T. :)
--
dtng...@mail.sas.upenn.edu
dtng...@force.stwing.upenn.edu
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dtnguyen
absolut zero
santino porretta <103...@netrover.com> wrote:
>I used to have this deabate with my schoolmates in public school all the
>time. Which line of toys were more popular? TF or GI Joe? I assume they
>were in a dead heat, with TF barely ahead. Now I know everyone is going to
>say TF of course, but does anyone know for sure? Sales figure perhaps to
>prove it?
>Just something I thought I'd bring up.
Hmm. Personally, I was waaaay into both. GIJoe and TFs conspired to sway
me from my SW toy habit (causing me to miss all the stuff that's expensive
as hell these days, but was on clearance back then). I can't really put
a finger on which one I liked more. These days, tis a different story.
I still have my TFs. My Joes all 'died', so to speak. I'd tend to think
that GIJoe was a tad more popular. Bear in mind, Joe has a looong history
behind it, even though, I know we're talkin' 3 3/4 line here. Compare
the 3 3/4 Joe line and TFs and they're really quite similar. Came out
in early 80's (Joe-'82/TFs-'83-4?). Both pretty much had their peak
around '87, quality and popularity kind of declined on and through '90.
TFs temporarily died and came back with G2. GIJoe tried to make a comeback
around the same time by rehashing old characters (although, w/new molds,
not just repaints). And Joe sputtered and coughed with Battle Corps, crappy
sub-lines, and neon, eye-poking weapons, and finally disappeared.
And nooow...WE got Beast and Machine Wars..vs...GIJoe Extreme. Although,
the 3 3/4 line is making a small (and maybe more?) comeback oddly enuff,
this fall/early next year (coincidence?..nah, the two lines are obviously,
conspiratorily linked :))
Reid Worth
[ ]
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absolut zero
Mike Bisbee
santino porretta wrote:
>
> I used to have this deabate with my schoolmates in public school all the
> time. Which line of toys were more popular? TF or GI Joe? I assume they
> were in a dead heat, with TF barely ahead. Now I know everyone is going to
> say TF of course, but does anyone know for sure? Sales figure perhaps to
> prove it?
> Just something I thought I'd bring up.
I think on an *international* scale, Transformers were more popular but
considering G.I. Joe spawned THREE different TV series and have yet to
disappear from the shelves *completely* since their premeire in 1981 I'd
have to say that the Joe toyline has sold better overall. However, right
now Beast Wars is *definitely* outselling the Joes...
And on a similar note, I confess that I actually *like* the G.I. Joe:
Extreme TV series. Stop laughing. Please. I mean it. No really.
OK, the animation is lousy compared to Sunbow/Marvel but at least it's
better than Dic's. Sure, the characters are steroid-enhanced...but as
much as I *really* liked Cobra Commander, he wasn't fit to shine Iron
Klaw's size 12s. Now here's a REAL terrorist!
Now if I haven't lost all credibility by now, I must point out that the
series has improved since Season One. They *finally* got rid of that
awful semi-pseudo metal interludes during the climactic battle scenes
which detracted from the action.
And - best of all - they're slowly revealing that Iron Klaw is NOT the
real force behind SKAR! He's only the leader of their *military*
operations! The *real* power is a secret Illuminati-like cabal of
bankers, politicians, CEOs, etc...
But yes...for those who will inevitably bring this up...Snake-Eyes or
Storm-Shadow (or probably even Scarlett) could kick Black Dragon's a$$...
-Star Saber
santino porretta
Ye old man Ben
Napalm-Rabbit (dtng...@force.stwing.upenn.edu) wrote:
> santino porretta (103...@netrover.com) wrote:
[snip]
> I'd say Transformers, even though they were pretty head to head. But it
> didn't matter really, because Hasbro would win either way. Unless you
> remember cabbage patch kids...
As a whole, I would say G.I. Joe <duck, dodge, jump>...no really.
I only say this because of the longevity of the GI Joe line. Although it
has gone through many incarnations, G.I. Joe has been around for about 3
decades now (I believe). Transformers are no laughing matter of course,
the TF line has gone on for about 12 years now and that's quite
extraordinary. As with G.I. Joe, TF's have undergone changes themselves
but the line continues to thrive.
I believe I once read in a toy magazine that a toy line generally
has to exist for about 20 years before it becomes a very high and mighty
"collectable" line. Although this point is arguable, running with this
thought (or thoughts similar to it), G.I. Joe is definately TF's "senior"
in terms of being a success story. And despite the disappointing G.I. Joe
Extreme, I believe the line will continue (with more 'classic' type Joes
coming out and possible 3 3/4" figs to return).
So what does all this mean? Well, we know TF's are continuing
into 1997 with Machine Wars and Beast Wars so that's 13 years. Just 7
more years to go for high and mighty toy line status! Yay! :)
Ben "Who already thinks TF's are pretty darn high and mighty in his book."
ye...@is2.nyu.edu
The Nixtr
If you take combined sales of TF's and GI Joe (since 1983) I'm sure TF's
have outsold GI Joe.During the height of both of these series, TF's was on
top, especially in the 86 and 87 series, just before TF's fall.
--
The Nixtr
** Transformer fan **
Next they'll be fighting for POST-birth abortions!
World's Weirdest Site: http://www.acy.digex.net/~thenixtr
Scott Mcallister - UPLG/F93
santino porretta (103...@netrover.com) wrote:
: I used to have this deabate with my schoolmates in public school all the
: were in a dead heat, with TF barely ahead. Now I know everyone is going to
: say TF of course, but does anyone know for sure? Sales figure perhaps to
: prove it?
I don't remember all the numbers. I remember Transformers was
doing over $200M in 1986, pretty much its peak, BUT... GIJoe was said to
be doing better. Wait a year for the Machine Wars show to hit it big.
The bots will clean up in 1998. :)
Tengu
santino porretta wrote:
>
> I used to have this deabate with my schoolmates in public school all the
> time. Which line of toys were more popular? TF or GI Joe? I assume they
> were in a dead heat, with TF barely ahead. Now I know everyone is going to
> say TF of course, but does anyone know for sure? Sales figure perhaps to
> prove it?
I've always thought GI Joe was the more popular (toy) of the two.
(gulp) As a long time fan of both lines of toys, I simply have observed
the longevity of the Joe lines surpass that of the TF lines. The Joes
have been popular for years and years longer than Transformers (in the
US, anyway) have even been around. Aside from that, everybody can
remember playing with toy soldiers at one time or another. Transformers
take a little bit more imagination to enjoy, I think.
Which brings up another point- as to which fans are more devoted. The
answer to this one, I think, falls in favor of Transformers. Just look
at all the great folks who gab back and forth constantly about TFs on
this newsgroup and elsewhere years after TF went "out." I don't know
about you, but I haven't read many fanfics about Snake-Eyes and Scarlett
lately...
Tengu:<>
The Nixtr
QUOTING:
I don't remember all the numbers. I remember Transformers was
doing over $200M in 1986, pretty much its peak, BUT... GIJoe was said to
be doing better. Wait a year for the Machine Wars show to hit it big.
The bots will clean up in 1998. :)
RESPONSE: No, I remember a 1986news program (one of those Tabloids, I
think) and it said that TF's were the hottest "boys" toys for the year.
They showed pix of Kup and movie characters. Then I remember in 1987
they had the toy fair on one of the morning shows and a guy rolling
Scorponok (with the legs bobbing as the toy does) and they referred TF's
as "Hasbro's hottest item". I have a video of this one somewhere.
Unfortunately, by 1988 transfrmers sales declined. I was Mad at GI Joe!
The Nixtr
I only have one article which was from 1985. This is when Transformers
first outselled Cabbage Patch Kids for the first time, and were the
highest grosser. I must find that article so I can quote some figures. I
have a video from 1987 which said transformers were Hasbro's most popular
line, but no numbers were given, and this only applied to Hasbro (though
GI joe was part of the line). This was just before the decline in 1988.
sanjay
Napalm-Rabbit (dtng...@force.stwing.upenn.edu) wrote:
: Darn, I thought this was like a Death Start Vs. Unicron debate (I can
: only *vaguely* remember this thread, it was like freshman year), like
: who'd whoop each other's asses, not from a historical marketing point of
: view of toy line and sales.
Ah yes! Unicron vs. Death Star. That was awesome! :P
*everybody* knows that Unicron would win! (duck)
Seriously though, I think there were a (numerically) LOT more GI Joes
around then TF's. Someone else brought up a good point that GI Joes haven't
completely disappeared off shelves yet. I don't think they ever stopped making
them either; they went straight from 3 3/4ths to extreme. Actually, before
that, there were the 12 inch dolls, which went back ages.
Http://www.gojoe.com/82history/articles -- an AWESOME history of the 3 3/4 GI
JOEs, you have to naviage it manually though, it seems like certain parts of it
were deleted. I dream of there being something like it for TF's.
But in terms of playing, they all did kinda just blend together. Joes
and TF's and He-Man and whatever other toys i had, all in one big mosh pit
of death and destruction.
And, if you guys thought that Fort MAx was big, do any of you remember the Joe
Aircraft Carrier? I think its rumored to be the biggest toy in one of those
action lines. It was *HUGH*. I never got one, but the box dimentions
(unassembled) were something like 4x2x1. (taken from the GI Joe homepage, but
the part that mentions the carrier seems to be one of the parts that were deleted)
--
Sanjay Rana
ran...@wharton.upenn.edu
http://futures.wharton.upenn.edu/~rana05
Darryl
Does anyone have any idea as to why those parts were deleted? I thought
that was a kewl site.
--
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From The Desk Top of THE ROCK
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Check out my page!
THE ROCK'S DOMAIN!!!!---> http://home.rica.net/dcarson/therock
***THE ROCK'S JENNY McCARTHY PAGE***
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The Nixtr
QUOTING: If you are just refering to the 3 3/4
toys TF's might fare a little better.
RESPONSE: Yes, I was not referring to the older 11" Joe line, but only the
series beginning in 1983.
The Nixtr
QUOTING: You should remember that G.I. Joe has be around for 30+ years
and has probably made more money for Has/Ken than TF's could ever hope to.
RESPONSE: I am aware of the fact that in GI JOE history, they are the
biggest sellers, but I WAS only refering to the series' from 1983,
starting with the re-introduction of GI JOE in 3 1/2 inch form. This was
pointed out earlier in the thread, but that was a while ago, so some may
have missed that. In fact, maybe the original poster was talking overal
(including the original Joe) and some late-comers to the thread (myself
included) missed even THAT!
patykada
Mike Bisbee wrote:
> But yes...for those who will inevitably bring this up...Snake-Eyes or
> Storm-Shadow (or probably even Scarlett) could kick Black Dragon's a$$...
>
> -Star Saber
The original Joe team in general would put a whupping on these pathetic
losers nowadays. More to the point of the post, G.I.Joe was really
cool...but Transformers have stuck with me (thanks to stuff like the
movie and the comics, which helped give a purpose to having the toys)
moe than G.I.Joe. I think it's because Transformers has a bit more of
an "epic" quality to it than G.I.Joe. Which is not to say that I
haven't kept all my little Joe guys and comics...they were great, but
not quite as good as TFs. Plus, even though the toy sizes are out of
whack, it's always fun to have G.I.Joe meet the TFs ala the comic...hee
hee hee.
Rob Mayercik
>And, if you guys thought that Fort MAx was big, do any of you remember
the Joe
>Aircraft Carrier? I think its rumored to be the biggest toy in one of
those
>action lines. It was *HUGH*. I never got one, but the box dimentions
>(unassembled) were something like 4x2x1. (taken from the GI Joe
homepage, but
>the part that mentions the carrier seems to be one of the parts that
were deleted)
>
Ah, You refer to the U.S.S. Flag (or is it Flagg), the Joes' Carrier.
I knew of someone that had one of those, and the thing was an
unbelievable seven feet long, so that the F14 (commonly known as the Sky
Stryker) could be "launched" and "recovered".
I never actually saw it, but I heard stories.
Ryan Michael Olshavsky
Excerpts from netnews.alt.toys.transformers: 28-Oct-96 Re: GI Joe vs TF
by Rob Maye...@attila.stev
my theory is that everyone knew somebody who had the aircraft carrier
and that person was the envy of all g.i. joe fans. however, nobody
could ever confirm that that person actually owned the aircraft carrier
because nobody ever saw it in person.
even today i know a woman that says she has one in her basement, and
while i'm inclined to believe she's telling the truth, i have never seen
the thing so i can't confirm it.
oh well.
that's my theory.
ro...@andrew.cmu.edu, RyanD...@aol.com
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ro25/rmo.html
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
"When in doubt, make it red. If you're still in doubt,
make it big." - Ivan Chermayeff
absolut zero
>> I never actually saw it, but I heard stories.
>
>
>my theory is that everyone knew somebody who had the aircraft carrier
>and that person was the envy of all g.i. joe fans. however, nobody
>could ever confirm that that person actually owned the aircraft carrier
>because nobody ever saw it in person.
>
>even today i know a woman that says she has one in her basement, and
>while i'm inclined to believe she's telling the truth, i have never seen
>the thing so i can't confirm it.
>
>oh well.
>
>that's my theory.
Oh, nooo..I've seen it...twice. My 'best' friend (why was he my best
friend?:)) had one when we were kids. Bastard got it when it was brand
new..'85 or early '86. I remember the box was huge..hell, the box alone
was big enough to warrant play value. Anyway, suffice to say..it is
huge...even more so at age 8-9. I also saw one at a toy show a few months
ago. Guy had it all decked out with a Skystriker, Conquest, Dragonfly and
damn near every Joe from '82-89..twas a sight to behold. It's still
BIG, but somehow not as awesome as it was when *I* was much smaller.
The Space Shuttle Defiant is fairly impressive, too. I've never even seen
a Fort Max...not loose and set up anyway. I remember seeing the boxes
on the cloud 9 shelf at TRU as a kid...but it was always out of reach,
literally, and monetarily.
Particle Man
The Space Shuttle Defiant is fairly impressive, too. I've never even
seen
a Fort Max...not loose and set up anyway. I remember seeing the boxes
on the cloud 9 shelf at TRU as a kid...but it was always out of reach,
literally, and monetarily.
One of my best childhood memories...recieving Fortress Maximus for my
13th birthday...still have him too...it's incredible, a sight to behold.
Bob Forward
Figure it's about time I step in here.
In the first draft of "Dark Designs," the writer (Ian Weir) had
Waspinator hit on the head and go bonkers, which manifested itself in
Waspinator thinking that he was Napoleon and shouting French phrases.
(Ian is Canadian, if this has any bearing. <g>)
It was a pretty funny bit, but since it was doubtful that A) Waspinator
would know of Napoleon and B) the joke would be completely lost on
six-year-olds, I decided to change his delusion to a past Transformer
reference, which would also help explain the timeline of the show.
I pestered Ben for help on this -- which Larry and I do often, having
initially discovered him via his Web page -- and he was, as always, most
patient and informative. Thus, Shrapnel was substituted.
Since Waspinator was no longer speaking French, I decided to have him
speak humorous wacko gibberish. And since wacko sounds similar to Wonko,
the idea of a "tip of the hat" in thanks to Ben came about.
The producers were informed of the meaning of the line and they loved the
idea. It was passed along to the voice director, which is why the line
is so clearly deliberate.
In summation, it is small "Thank You" to Ben for his
very-much-appreciated help with the details of the show.
Gabe (real!)
I can't believe no-one here knows this!!!
Wonko, why don't you own up to the fact that you DIDN'T make up the
name???
The name comes from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series of science
fiction novels, by Douglas Adams!
Someone working on the show must have read it.
Don't you people read???
+-------I hurt myself today-------------+
| To see if I could feel |
| I focus on the pain |
+-------The only thing that's real...---+
- NIN, Hurt
msipher
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Gabe (real!) wrote:
> I can't believe no-one here knows this!!!
Who says we didn't know it?
> Wonko, why don't you own up to the fact that you DIDN'T make up the
> name???
Maybe he doesn't have to? Maybe we already knew it?
> The name comes from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series of science
> fiction novels, by Douglas Adams!
We knew that...
> Someone working on the show must have read it.
Sure. Chances are VERY good SOMEBODY on the writing team has read the
HITCHHIKERS books. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT... Several people who work on
the show HAVE been in regular contact with Ben "Wonko the Sane" Yee...
among them the two "big boys" of the scriptwriting team, Bob Forward and
Larry DiTillio. Ben has been THE most stalwart BW supporter from the
get-go, creating the definative "In Defence of Beast Wars" essay. His Web
page is THE place to go for BW info. Ben has supplied them with TF info,
and they have supplied him with screen shots and future plot info. (Even
sensitve future plot info that they've asked him NOT to repeat to us
until they think it'll be allright to do so...)
The reference is doubtlessly a tip o' the hat to Mr. Yee. He deserves it.
Take a bow.
> Don't you people read???
Sure we do. Maybe you should start reading the group a little more before
flying off the handle...
M "I Swear. Some People..." Sipher
Robert A. Jung
In article <Pine.SUN.3.94.961030...@tuzo.erin> "Gabe (real!)" <e0fk...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca> writes:
>I can't believe no-one here knows this!!!
>
>name???
I hope this isn't some blunt jealousy on your part or something, Gabe. It's
rather unappealing. I mean, chee, the guy's been promoting and supporting BW
since even before the show started, some people give him a little credit, and
here you are kicking down the flagpoles out of spite or something...
--R.J.
B-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
Rodney Lambson
Gabe (real!) wrote:
>
> I can't believe no-one here knows this!!!
>
> Wonko, why don't you own up to the fact that you DIDN'T make up the
> name???
>
> fiction novels, by Douglas Adams!
Chill..... "Wonko" already 'fessed up!
> Someone working on the show must have read it.
Maybe, maybe *not*.
> Don't you people read???
Yeah, but whazzat go to do with it?
--
Rodney Lambson (rla...@gl.umbc.edu)
Transformers Page: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~rlambs1/index.html
Transformers Code: G+++ FR M+ #80 D++ AD+ N++ W++ B++++ OQP BC96 MU-
P255
Brent David Stocking
In a previous article, e0fk...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca ("Gabe ") says:
>
>I can't believe no-one here knows this!!!
>
>Wonko, why don't you own up to the fact that you DIDN'T make up the
>name???
>
Um, he did.
>Don't you people read???
Do you?
-brent
--
Brent David Stocking \ "The misanthrope's catastrophic apostrophe landed
Itinerant CS major \ in the cantaloupe near the antelope's interloper."
Lambda Chi Alpha / -- R. Michael Young
Bowling Green StateU / http://pizza.bgsu.edu/~brents/temp.html
Raksha
In article <Pine.SUN.3.94.961030...@tuzo.erin>,
Gabe (real!) <e0fk...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>I can't believe no-one here knows this!!!
>
>Wonko, why don't you own up to the fact that you DIDN'T make up the
>name???
A lot of people take screen names from books or comics or movies or other
sources. Ben never claimed otherwise. What's your problem?
--Raksha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Plumed Serpent, I strike and I soar!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All-time favorite Transformer: Soundwave ("The secrets of the Universe
reveal themselves to those who listen.")
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: jk...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Dept. of Zoology, OSU
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1139
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joona I Palaste
Rob Mayercik wrote:
> >action lines. It was *HUGH*. I never got one, but the box dimentions
^^^^^^
I have seen some hilarious spelling errors here, but this takes the cake.
"Hugh" is even pronounced differently than "huge"! Did anyone see the
STTNG episode "I, Borg" or something? That episode proves my point.
--
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Joona Palaste | | | |
| pal...@cc.helsinki.fi | | | |
| G++ FR FW+ M- #20 D+ ADA N+++ W++ B OP+ |------- -----------------|
| |------- -----------------|
| | | | |
| Finland rules! => | | | |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/