The ORIGINAL original TF logo OR: Hey Chad it was 2 words after all
crazysteve
" and just recently I was poking around the US Trade and Patent office
website when I found not only an answer, but a very early version of
the TF logo I've never seen before. What I'll do here is show the
series of online documents I found at the USTPO site that led me to
the "two word" conclusion and pictures of that logo. (If you guys just
want to go straight to the money shot, click on the last link in this
post).
STEP 1: First go to this page. It's a list of various trademark
applications Hasbro filed from December of 1962 through April of
1985:
<http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?
db=tm&reel=0575&frame=0373>
STEP 2: Check out item number 54:
54 Serial #:73450984 Filing Dt:11/02/1983 Reg #:
1296543 Reg. Dt: 09/18/1984
Mark: THE TRANS FORMERS MORE THAN MEETS THE EY
The whole title gets truncated a bit and the final "E" gets lopped off
for whatever reason. I suppose it has something to do limitations with
the number of characters allowed in that field on the electronic form.
It looks like TRANS and FORMERS are very clearly separated.
STEP 3: Don't take my word for it, though, click on either the serial
number 73450984 or registration number 1296543 and you'll come to this
page:
<http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=tm&rno=1296543>
That takes you to a "Trademark Assignment Abstract of Title". It looks
like the same basic information from before regurgitated, but here's
where it gets interesting.
STEP 4: Click on either the serial number or registration number from
the TAAoT page and check out what opens in a new window:
<http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?
regser=registration&entry=1296543>
Now it is clear that the original trademark application filed in
November of '83 was for "THE TRANS FORMERS MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE".
And what tripped me out was the logo very similar to that used on
Transformers box art back then, but slightly different. While it's
somewhat cool it still looks pretty awful, as if I'm seeing a copy of
a fax.
STEP 5: However, if you click on "Trademark Document Retrieval" you
get sent to this page:
<http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/portal/tow?
SRCH=Y&isSubmitted=true&details=&SELECT=US+Serial+No&TEXT=73450984#>
STEP 6: ...and if you click on "Registration Certificate" you get this
nice crisp clean rendering of the early logo:
<http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/PA_1_2_V9/OpenServletWindow?
serialNumber=73450984&scanDate=2005120678925&DocDesc=Registration
+Certificate&docType=ORC¤tPage=1&rowNum=1&rowCount=1&formattedDate=18-
Sep-1984>
That's pretty cool and all, but wouldn't it be nice to see that logo
printed on something in color? Well I found that, too. This time if
you go back to the page I started with in step 1, find item number 67
and click on that serial or registration number. Item 67 is a refiling
of the TRANS FORMERS trademark for August of 1984, Now you come to
this page:
<http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=tm&sno=73494447>
Then repeat steps 2-6: click on the serial or registration number on
the new page, then look at the pretty logo that pops up in a new
window, then in that new window click on "Trademark Document
Retrieval". That brings up this page:
<http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/portal/tow?
SRCH=Y&isSubmitted=true&details=&SELECT=US+Serial+No&TEXT=73494447>
Now here's where it gets really interesting. If you click on the
"Specimens" link, a three page pop up window appears. The URL to that
is:
<http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/PA_1_2_V9/OpenServletWindow?
serialNumber=73494447&scanDate=2008051344926&DocDesc=Specimens&docType=SPE¤tPage=1&rowNum=2&rowCount=8&formattedDate=13-
May-2008>
This shows what appears to me to be an early mock up cardback using
what I call the prototype logo. Click through to page 2 and the back
of the card is shown. It's not a finished package for anything. It has
a USPTO mailroom stamp of August 13, 1984 on it so it is very clearly
ealry G1 and not a protoype for the Heroes of Cybertron line or
something neo-G1 from recent years.
My 50,000 dollar question is this-does anyone know of any instance of
this logo being used in any production Transformers product? I imagine
it's possible that it got put on something and there's just something
about it that seems familiar, like I've seen it before but I forgot.
Chad Rushing
wrote:
>
> Last year Chad asked the question, " 'Transformers' - One Word or Two?
> " and just recently I was poking around the US Trade and Patent office
> website when I found not only an answer, but a very early version of
> the TF logo I've never seen before. What I'll do here is show the
> series of online documents I found at the USTPO site that led me to
> the "two word" conclusion and pictures of that logo.
Ha, I guess I was not absolutely crazy for raising the issue after
all. Obviously, the compound word is "transformer," but "TRANS" +
"FORMERS" (split across two lines) or "TransFormers" is shown on toy
packaging over and over and over again ever since G1. That always
made me wonder.
Thanks for the great investigative research! I no longer feel like an
idiot for asking about this! :-D
- Chad
crazysteve
> idiot for asking about this! :-D
Well thanks for asking in the first place. I thought it was a good
question and we just needed to pursue the answer in the right places.
I noticed teh usenet broke my links so here's the money shot again:
Zobovor
wrote:
> My 50,000 dollar question is this-does anyone know of any instance of
> this logo being used in any production Transformers product? I imagine
> it's possible that it got put on something and there's just something
> about it that seems familiar, like I've seen it before but I forgot.
That's a fascinating discovery, crazysteve. I think I can state with
certainty that I've never seen that logo before, but of course that
doesn't necessarily mean it was never marketed. Very, very
interesting. Until someone provides evidence to the contrary, I'm
going to assume it was an early logo that was rejected in favor of the
final design. (There are so many things about Transformers that get
designed-and-then-updated that I guess one more shouldn't surprise me
at this point!)
Zob
Cappeca
wrote:
> Last year Chad asked the question, " 'Transformers' - One Word or Two?
> " and just recently I was poking around the US Trade and Patent office
> website when I found not only an answer, but a very early version of
> the TF logo I've never seen before. What I'll do here is show the
> series of online documents I found at the USTPO site that led me to
> the "two word" conclusion and pictures of that logo. (If you guys just
> want to go straight to the money shot, click on the last link in this
> post).
>
Awesome, man! Thank you!
ShadowWing
enough to use the Transformer name. Not sure where, though, and I could be
wrong. It's pretty close to the official one.
Optim_1
>
> Ha, I guess I was not absolutely crazy for raising the issue after
> all. Obviously, the compound word is "transformer," but "TRANS" +
> "FORMERS" (split across two lines) or "TransFormers" is shown on toy
> packaging over and over and over again ever since G1. That always
> made me wonder.
>
> Thanks for the great investigative research! I no longer feel like an
> idiot for asking about this! :-D
>
> - Chad
I still don't think that Transformers were ever intended to be two
words. I have seen official Transformers scripts of "Transport to
Oblivion", "30 secs over Megatron" and "Triple Takeover" in which
"Transformers" were spelled as one word. The same for the comics and
for the toy instruction booklets which has the usual official logo in
two lines but also "Transformers" as one word in the interior text.
Furthermore, the logo for the Pretender boxes were done in one line.
The official logo, before the Pretenders, may have been written under
two lines but I think it is more for stylish purposes. Seeing it in
two lines, the US Patent Office may have assumed incorrectly that it
is two words. The spelling "TransFormers" may have been done to
highlight the compound nature of the name; if they were intended to be
two words, they would have separated them.
This makes sense because "trans" is not a word. "Transformers"
obviously comes from the verb "to transform" so it must always have
been one word.
Optim_1
wrote:
Thanks for the great find.
A great piece of Transformers history and it has been there all along
on the Internet.
crazysteve
> on the Internet.
I think it's only been there for about a month. I'm sure that the
cardback mockup wasn't there before. The mail/create date for the
scans of the specimen is listed as 13 May 2008, so I think the USPTO
has only recently been going back into their archives and adding scans
of the materials they have pertaining to the various trademark
applications.
crazysteve
> incorrectly that it is two words.
This isn't an interpretation on the part of the USPTO. The following
document is part of the paper correspondence Hasbro created to renew
the trademark:
On page five there's a letter from Hasbro (on official Hasbro
letterhead) to the commissioner of trademarks with TRANS FORMERS
separated. These documents from the earliest filings in '84 to this
renewal application from 2004 all separate the name for trademark
purposes. There's even record of a subsequent separate filing in '84
(serial number 73492579) for THE TRANSFORMERS all as one word for use
in children's clothing. Yet when it came time to renew the trademark
for the toyline, Hasbro kept submitting paperwork with the separation
between TRANS and FORMERS.
> This makes sense because "trans" is not a word. "Transformers"
> obviously comes from the verb "to transform" so it must always have
> been one word.
Whatever works for you. The evidence or points I've brought up won't
change your mind and I'm not going to argue it anymore.
crazysteve
> with certainty that I've never seen that logo before,
I can state with certainty that you have. A guy on another group I
post to (thanks, Jeff!) brought up that it was used on the sticker
sheets for Grimlock and Jetfire. If you do an eBay search for those
sheets you'll see it's been used before.
Other TF sites like the mooonies (http://tinyurl.com/5g3hvk) and
Fred's Workshop have referenced the logo but I'd never seen the color
cardback before.
Phillip Thorne
wrote:
I think I know why Hasbro changed it (except for a few stragglers, as
noted elsethread): as drawn, this logotype reads like "TPANS FOPMEPS,"
or at least "TRANS FORMEPS." The "R minus vertical stoke" characters
are all the same, but the third one is next to a left-oblique "E," so
it looks more like a "P."
(It's TPAHCFOPMEPC, the Russian Transformers!)
In fact, the entire "can't decide which way to slant the letters"
aspect makes the logotype look... drunken.
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************