Transformers G1 Rivals & Decepticon Trios
Chad Rushing
character or team was given a direct Decepticon rival. There were
some distinct rivalries in BW/BM, too, but you don't see that as much
in the animated fiction anymore. Here are the G1 ones that
immediately come to mind. Feel free to add more or adjust any of
those listed:
== SEASONS 1&2 ===
Optimus Prime vs. Megatron
Skyfire vs. Starscream
Blaster vs. Soundwave
Omega Supreme vs. ???
Dinobots vs. Constructicons
Aerialbots vs. Stunticons
Protectabots vs. Combaticons
== TF:TM/SEASONS 3&4 ==
Rodimus Prime vs. Galvatron
Ultra Magnus vs. Cyclonus
Sky Lynx vs. Predacons
Technobots vs. Terrorcons
Metroplex vs. Trypticon
Fortress Maximus vs. Scorponok
On a semi-related topic, it seems that Decepticon henchmen often come
in trios:
Reflector Team: Spectro, Spyglass, and Viewfinder
Insecticons: Shrapnel, Bombshell, and Kickback
Triplechangers: Blitzwing, Astrotrain, and Octane
Original Seeker Jets; Starscream, Skywarp, and Thundercracker
Conehead Seeker Jets: Dirge, Thrust, and Ramjet
Targetmaster Jets: Misfire, Slugslinger, and Triggerhappy
Original Headmasters: Mindwipe, Skullcruncher, and Weirdwolf
(Later Headmasters: Fangy, Horri-bull, and Squeezeplay)
(Firecons: Flamefeather, Sparkstalker, and Cindersaur)
(Triggercons: Crankcase, Ruckus, Windsweeper)
Assuming that there is an actual tendency for Decepticon trios in the
fiction, it seems odd that Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps would not
follow that pattern. It would have been interesting if TF:TM had
ushered in a new set of "Seekers" which included Cyclonus, Scourge,
and a third Decepticon as Galvatron's primary henchmen. Any
nominations?
- Chad
Gustavo Wombat
> It was often the case on the G1 animated show that a distinct Autobot
> character or team was given a direct Decepticon rival. There were
> some distinct rivalries in BW/BM, too, but you don't see that as much
> in the animated fiction anymore.
Animated was chock full of them. Armada, Energon and Cybertron also
had quite a few.
> Here are the G1 ones that
> immediately come to mind. Feel free to add more or adjust any of
> those listed:
>
> == SEASONS 1&2 ===
> Optimus Prime vs. Megatron
> Skyfire vs. Starscream
> Blaster vs. Soundwave
> Omega Supreme vs. ???
Omega Supreme vs, Constructicons. The Constructicons have many
rivalries.
> Dinobots vs. Constructicons
> Aerialbots vs. Stunticons
> Protectabots vs. Combaticons
> == TF:TM/SEASONS 3&4 ==
> Rodimus Prime vs. Galvatron
> Ultra Magnus vs. Cyclonus
> Sky Lynx vs. Predacons
> Technobots vs. Terrorcons
> Metroplex vs. Trypticon
> Fortress Maximus vs. Scorponok
I want to say Marissa Faireborne "vs." Dirk Manus, but Dirk was only
in a single episode. I cannot think of Marissa without her semi-
romantic/semi-adversarial relationship with Dirk, but she apparently
had a whole life without him or at least several appearances.
> On a semi-related topic, it seems that Decepticon henchmen often come
> in trios:
>
> Reflector Team: Spectro, Spyglass, and Viewfinder
> Insecticons: Shrapnel, Bombshell, and Kickback
> Triplechangers: Blitzwing, Astrotrain, and Octane
> Original Seeker Jets; Starscream, Skywarp, and Thundercracker
> Conehead Seeker Jets: Dirge, Thrust, and Ramjet
> Targetmaster Jets: Misfire, Slugslinger, and Triggerhappy
> Original Headmasters: Mindwipe, Skullcruncher, and Weirdwolf
>
> (Later Headmasters: Fangy, Horri-bull, and Squeezeplay)
> (Firecons: Flamefeather, Sparkstalker, and Cindersaur)
> (Triggercons: Crankcase, Ruckus, Windsweeper)
>
> Assuming that there is an actual tendency for Decepticon trios in the
> fiction, it seems odd that Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps would not
> follow that pattern. It would have been interesting if TF:TM had
> ushered in a new set of "Seekers" which included Cyclonus, Scourge,
> and a third Decepticon as Galvatron's primary henchmen. Any
> nominations?
Unnamed Sweep #1, obviously. (Or, Galvatron himself, along with
Cyclonus and Scourge are Unicron's henchmen)
Decepticons, like celebrity deaths, often come in threes.
Gustavo!
ahsan.sa...@gmail.com
> == SEASONS 1&2 ===
> Optimus Prime vs. Megatron
> Skyfire vs. Starscream
> Blaster vs. Soundwave
> Omega Supreme vs. ???
> Dinobots vs. Constructicons
> Aerialbots vs. Stunticons
> Protectabots vs. Combaticons
Dinobots vs. Constructicons did seem to happen more often ("Heavy
Metal Wars" and "Desertion of the Dinobots"), but that seemed more
like coincidence than a rivalry. It was supposed to be Constructicons
vs Omega Supreme. Or vice versa.
Didn't Scourge have three Sweeps usually? Later on, they became
nameless redshirts to be sacrificed whenever Galvatron lost his cool,
but they seemed to show up in threes.
There's most likely a writing thingy for making them up in threes.
That "three's a crowd" only applies to romantic situations,
friendships often seem to revolve around threes. Or, y'know, any sort
of specialist group.
Chad Rushing
>
> Animated was chock full of them. Armada, Energon and Cybertron also
> had quite a few.
That's probably the case, but G1 was always really explicit about it
by introducing the rivals in the same episode (Aerialbots vs.
Stunticons) or showcasing a confrontation between them (Soundwave vs.
Blaster).
Also, when I think of explicit rivalries, I think of someone working
at Hasbro saying, "I will add this character/team to one faction and
balance that by adding a similar character/team to the other
faction." Perfect examples of that would be the opposing pairs of G1
Clones, the Sparkabots/Firecons, the Triggerbots/Triggercons, etc. ...
kind of a yin/yang thing.
> Omega Supreme vs, Constructicons. The Constructicons have many
> rivalries.
I had completely forgotten about that from Omega's origin story.
> I want to say Marissa Faireborne "vs." Dirk Manus, but Dirk was only
> in a single episode. I cannot think of Marissa without her semi-
> romantic/semi-adversarial relationship with Dirk, but she apparently
> had a whole life without him or at least several appearances.
No fleshlings! Otherwise, I would have mentioned the one-sided Spike
vs. Rumble rivalry from MTMTE. Seeing Rumble just swat Spike away
like a fly as he walks away from the river always makes me laugh.
> Unnamed Sweep #1, obviously. (Or, Galvatron himself, along with
> Cyclonus and Scourge are Unicron's henchmen)
It didn't occur to me that they were Unicron's trio of goons during
TF:TM, because I always saw Cyclonus and Scourge as Galvatron's
subordinates. Then again, Starscream led the Seekers, and Shrapnel
led the Insecticons, so there's a precedent for that kind of
arrangement.
I still don't understand the decision behind having Cyclonus' (never
seen again) "armada" and Scourge's Sweeps other than it being from
sheer animation laziness. Season 3 would have been much more
interesting if there had been more unique characters on the Decepticon
side to interact with Galvatron and each other.
- Chad
Zobovor
> It was often the case on the G1 animated show that a distinct Autobot
> character or team was given a direct Decepticon rival. There were
> some distinct rivalries in BW/BM, too, but you don't see that as much
> in the animated fiction anymore. Here are the G1 ones that
> immediately come to mind.
I was thinking about this the other day, too, but I was specifically
wondering about the pairs of toys, or toy groups, that were supposed
to be rivals according to Hasbro. For instance, Shockwave and Jetfire
were the same size and price point so I always thought they were
intended by Hasbro to be rivals, but in the cartoon, Shockwave and
Skyfire only met once very briefly (in "The Ultimate Doom") and never
really got to fight.
Adjusting your list, then, I think that the Dinobots were meant to be
rivals to the Insecticons, and that Omega Supreme was intended as the
spoil for the Constructicons. It seems like the Autobots almost
always outnumbered and outmatched the Decepticons, but oddly enough,
the only group that seems to make sense as a spoil for the original
Triple Changers would be the Jumpstarters. (Hasbro eventually fixed
it in 1986 so the Battlechargers could fight the Jumpstarters, and
came up with Autobot Triple Changers to take on Astrotrain and
Blitzwing, but before then it was a terribly one-sided rivalry.)
The Mini Autobots were obviously intended as the equivalent of the
Decepticon mini cassettes. Note that although Hasbro did come up with
Autobot cassettes eventually, they never did produce any Mini
Decepticons to fight the Mini Autobots. Such a shame.
Sometimes the rivalry isn't as clear-cut, especially when you delve
later into the toy line. I've always felt Doubledealer was intended
as the spoil for Powermaster Optimus Prime. I'm not sure about the
Seacons, though. Quickswitch, maybe? (I know Quickswitch is "really"
Sixshot's rival, but Quickswitch was a 1988 toy and Sixshot was a 1987
toy, so it didn't start out that way. Of course, I'm not really sure
who Sixshot's original rival was supposed to be, either.)
> On a semi-related topic, it seems that Decepticon henchmen often come
> in trios:
<snip>
Then there's Bludgeon, Stranglehold and Octopunch from Marvel Comics.
Let's not forget Slapper, Gas Skunk and Darkscream from RiD.
> It would have been interesting if TF:TM had
> ushered in a new set of "Seekers" which included Cyclonus, Scourge,
> and a third Decepticon as Galvatron's primary henchmen.
Given that Unicron was essentially the big bad boss in the movie,
Galvatron was almost certainly one of those henchmen himself. I
agree, though, a third new Decepticon trooper would have been the
ideal scenario.
Zob
...also known as Thunder
> Also, when I think of explicit rivalries, I think of someone working
> at Hasbro saying, "I will add this character/team to one faction and
> balance that by adding a similar character/team to the other
> faction."
You could say Ultra Magnus vs. Galvatron then since both were rival City
Commanders in the toy-verse.
t.k.
...also known as Thunder
>Of course, I'm not really sure
> who Sixshot's original rival was supposed to be, either.)
Ultra Magnus! (Did you ever see that terrible Headmasters ep, called
"The Death of Ultra Magnus"? That was hilariously bad due to its
dubbing. :)
t.k.
Gustavo Wombat
> On Feb 16, 2:35 am, Gustavo Wombat <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Animated was chock full of them. Armada, Energon and Cybertron also
> > had quite a few.
>
> That's probably the case, but G1 was always really explicit about it
> by introducing the rivals in the same episode (Aerialbots vs.
> Stunticons) or showcasing a confrontation between them (Soundwave vs.
> Blaster).
Animated Ratchet and Lockdown. Given an explicit backstory, and
Lockdown's engine is Ratchet's EMP Generator -- there is even a spot
on the toy Ratchet's arm for the generator, where Lockdown's engine
can plug in.
Lockdown eventually became Prowl's primary rival in the cartoon,
because the of the history with Prowl's Sensei, and Ratchet was too
occupied with everything else in his story arc to bother with Lockdown
anyway.
I suspect that Oil Slick was meant to be a rival to Prowl during the
toy design phase.
> Also, when I think of explicit rivalries, I think of someone working
> at Hasbro saying, "I will add this character/team to one faction and
> balance that by adding a similar character/team to the other
> faction." Perfect examples of that would be the opposing pairs of G1
> Clones, the Sparkabots/Firecons, the Triggerbots/Triggercons, etc. ...
> kind of a yin/yang thing.
>
> > Omega Supreme vs, Constructicons. The Constructicons have many
> > rivalries.
>
> I had completely forgotten about that from Omega's origin story.
>
> > I want to say Marissa Faireborne "vs." Dirk Manus, but Dirk was only
> > in a single episode. I cannot think of Marissa without her semi-
> > romantic/semi-adversarial relationship with Dirk, but she apparently
> > had a whole life without him or at least several appearances.
>
> No fleshlings! Otherwise, I would have mentioned the one-sided Spike
> vs. Rumble rivalry from MTMTE. Seeing Rumble just swat Spike away
> like a fly as he walks away from the river always makes me laugh.
If fleshlings appear multiple times in direct opposition to a
character, then it should count as it begins to define the character
of the fleshling.
I just don't see Spike and Rumble interacting all that much.
Gustavo!
Gustavo Wombat
As I learned from my Art History classes many years ago, nearly any
time you see three things, it's a representation of the Holy Trinity.
Gustavo!
Chad Rushing
wrote:
>
> You could say Ultra Magnus vs. Galvatron then since both were rival City
> Commanders in the toy-verse.
True! Everyone was led to believe that the two of them would be the
new faction leaders. It was only in Season 3 that Ultra Magnus and
Cyclonus became rivals. I think there was an entire episode that
spotlighted that rivalry.
- Chad
Chad Rushing
>
> If fleshlings appear multiple times in direct opposition to a
> character, then it should count as it begins to define the character
> of the fleshling.
>
> I just don't see Spike and Rumble interacting all that much.
They didn't. There was like two occasions in MTMTE when Hound faced
off against Rumble or Spike tried to fight Rumble (unsuccessfully).
Considering how many times I have watched MTMTE, those encounters are
really stuck in my head.
- Chad
Zobovor
> True! Everyone was led to believe that the two of them would be the
> new faction leaders. It was only in Season 3 that Ultra Magnus and
> Cyclonus became rivals. I think there was an entire episode that
> spotlighted that rivalry.
I honestly don't think Hasbro even knew for sure who the new leaders
were supposed to be. Either through accident or design, there was no
merchandising or toy packaging or advertising that identified Rodimus
Prime as an Autobot leader. It's interesting that Ultra Magnus was
the only movie character who had a pre-existing toy, and I suspect
that the only reason Galvatron's toy was so large was so he could act
as a suitable spoil for Ultra Magnus. (When I was a kid and I finally
owned both Rodimus Prime and Galvatron, pitting the two toys against
each other was a joke. Rodimus was only half his size!)
Given that Cyclonus seved as Galvatron's transport in the movie, and
also given that Cyclonus is slightly taller than Galvatron (at least
in some episodes), I would have preferred Cyclonus to be the larger-
sized toy, perhaps with an electronics package, or possibly the
capacity to carry smaller Decepticons similar to the function of the
Ultra Magnus toy. A smaller Galvatron would also have had the benefit
of being more portable for kids as a handheld weapon—and a Galvatron
without an electronics package would be able to telescope his legs
into his body as per his animated transformation sequence.
It's so funny—in the cartoon, sometimes Galvatron was focused on
Rodimus Prime (as it should be) and sometimes he was positively
obsessed with Ultra Magnus ("Webworld" is a good example of this) as
if Rodimus didn't exist. This was, probably, an attempt by the
writers to force a rivalry between the two of them that only existed
in the toy line-up. (Well, and the toy commercials. Remember
Megatron's voiceover, "...And Galvatron is Ultra Magnus' sworn
enemy!")
I think "Surprise Party" is the episode you were thinking of, Chad,
that showcased the duel between Ultra Magnus and Cyclonus.
Zob
Zobovor
> If fleshlings appear multiple times in direct opposition to a
> character, then it should count as it begins to define the character
> of the fleshling.
Spike and Ravage tangled on several occasions. Three or four that I
can think of, off the top of my head.
...Wait, are we now defining characters based on who their rivals
are? What is this, the Revenge of the Fallen toy line?
Zob
Chad Rushing
>
> ...Wait, are we now defining characters based on who their rivals
> are? What is this, the Revenge of the Fallen toy line?
Ha, I am waiting for the World's Shortest ROTF Bio that is just one
sentence: "This Transformer has no existing rivalries or grudges with
any other Transformer of the opposing faction, so there is nothing
else to be said about him."
- Chad
Gustavo Wombat
Before even learning his name, HOT SHOT was taunting APE FACE about
his ape face, using such tried and true insults as "Ape Face".
Eventually, he learned that APE FACE's name was "APE FACE" and that no
one had ever noticed that HOT SHOT was insulting him. Now, ashamed,
HOT SHOT sheepishly avoids making eye contact with APE FACE, and
ignores him on the battlefield, seeking out other Decepticons to
fight. Ironically, the sting of this rejection hurts APE FACE more
than any blaster fire or melee weapon could.
Gustavo! (I picture a two pack, with them in robot mode steadfastly
looking away from each other)
Chad Rushing
>
> Before even learning his name, HOT SHOT was taunting APE FACE about
> his ape face, using such tried and true insults as "Ape Face".
> Eventually, he learned that APE FACE's name was "APE FACE" and that no
> one had ever noticed that HOT SHOT was insulting him. Now, ashamed,
> HOT SHOT sheepishly avoids making eye contact with APE FACE, and
> ignores him on the battlefield, seeking out other Decepticons to
> fight. Ironically, the sting of this rejection hurts APE FACE more
> than any blaster fire or melee weapon could.
>
> Gustavo! (I picture a two pack, with them in robot mode steadfastly
> looking away from each other)
I might have to buy that set and leave it MISB to preserve the
effect. Hot Shot's redeco could be packaged with Pretender Bugly in a
similar fashion.
- Chad
SteveD
>There's most likely a writing thingy for making them up in threes.
>That "three's a crowd" only applies to romantic situations,
>friendships often seem to revolve around threes. Or, y'know, any sort
>of specialist group.
It's even been noticed by fanfic writers. The expression "trinemate"
springs to mind. And has over a thousand Google hits.
-SteveD
SteveD
>I suspect
>that the only reason Galvatron's toy was so large was so he could act
>as a suitable spoil
Foil, perhaps...?
ahsan.sa...@gmail.com
> It's even been noticed by fanfic writers. The expression "trinemate"
> springs to mind. And has over a thousand Google hits.
"Trinemate". I've heard that enough inKoi's (and Wayward's I think?)
fics, but is it a canon term? I know that Koi makes up a lot of words
as she goes along (or adapts them), but this one seems to be more
common than the others she uses.
SteveD
I've never heard it used in canon, but it's been gaining fanon support in
some writing circles.
-SteveD
Onslaught Six
> Assuming that there is an actual tendency for Decepticon trios in the
> fiction, it seems odd that Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps would not
> follow that pattern. It would have been interesting if TF:TM had
> ushered in a new set of "Seekers" which included Cyclonus, Scourge,
> and a third Decepticon as Galvatron's primary henchmen. Any
> nominations?
You've got it wrong, Chad. Galvatron 'is' the third henchmen, and they
all serve under Unicron.
Onslaught Six
> I was thinking about this the other day, too, but I was specifically
> wondering about the pairs of toys, or toy groups, that were supposed
> to be rivals according to Hasbro. For instance, Shockwave and Jetfire
> were the same size and price point so I always thought they were
> intended by Hasbro to be rivals, but in the cartoon, Shockwave and
> Skyfire only met once very briefly (in "The Ultimate Doom") and never
> really got to fight.
They also fought in the commercial for both. I suspect it's because
Skyfire wasn't really quite Jetfire that they never fought. (It helps
that Shockwave was never really around unless they were on Cybertron.)
Onslaught Six
> Before even learning his name, HOT SHOT was taunting APE FACE about
> his ape face, using such tried and true insults as "Ape Face".
> Eventually, he learned that APE FACE's name was "APE FACE" and that no
> one had ever noticed that HOT SHOT was insulting him. Now, ashamed,
> HOT SHOT sheepishly avoids making eye contact with APE FACE, and
> ignores him on the battlefield, seeking out other Decepticons to
> fight. Ironically, the sting of this rejection hurts APE FACE more
> than any blaster fire or melee weapon could.
>
> Gustavo! (I picture a two pack, with them in robot mode steadfastly
> looking away from each other)
This is the best thing I have read all day.
Gabi TM D'Galvatron
> It was often the case on the G1 animated show that a distinct Autobot
> character or team was given a direct Decepticon rival. There were
> some distinct rivalries in BW/BM, too, but you don't see that as much
> in the animated fiction anymore. Here are the G1 ones that
> immediately come to mind. Feel free to add more or adjust any of
> those listed:
Shockwave VS his off-screen nemesis (at whom he shoots at but Megs
makes a call from Earth and spoils Shockwaves fun)
Shockwave VS space bridge travalers
Shockwave VS the Femme-bots
Shockwave VS self proclaimed planetary liberators
Shockwave VS the Dinobots (Cartoon / Marvel / IDW)
Starscream VS anyone else in the room
Laserbeak VS Optimus Prime
Soundwave VS iPods , CD players & MP3
The Insecticons VS all other TF's
The Stunticons VS the Autobots (when they feel like it)
Galvatron VS his own sanity
Megs VS Screamer (hey , you did ask for rivalries ....)
> On a semi-related topic, it seems that Decepticon henchmen often come
> in trios:
Funny but just the other day I was thinking about all the 'Cons that
come in "two packs" , like :
Runabout + Runamuck
Rumble + Frenzy
Dredwind + Darkwing
Snapdragon + Apeface
Laserbeak + Buzzsaw
Cyclonus + Scourge
The Decepticlones
Guess those guys enter the 'Cons into the "two stooges" hall of fame
also . Yey ! :-)
ahsan.sa...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Runabout + Runamuck
> Rumble + Frenzy
> Dredwind + Darkwing
> Snapdragon + Apeface
> Laserbeak + Buzzsaw
> Cyclonus + Scourge
> The Decepticlones
>
> Guess those guys enter the 'Cons into the "two stooges" hall of fame
> also . Yey ! :-)
Other than Laserbeak and Buzzsaw, these characters seem to be more as
comedic foils... where they've actually interacted with one another.
Dreadwing and Darkwing never met in the cartoons, but they were funny
enough in the comics.
Gabi TM D'Galvatron
<ahsan.salahud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 7:22 am, "Gabi TM D'Galvatron" <sixpackpup...@walla.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Runabout + Runamuck
> > Rumble + Frenzy
> > Dredwind + Darkwing
> > Snapdragon + Apeface
> > Laserbeak + Buzzsaw
> > Cyclonus + Scourge
> > The Decepticlones
>
> > Guess those guys enter the 'Cons into the "two stooges" hall of fame
> > also . Yey ! :-)
>
> Other than Laserbeak and Buzzsaw, these characters seem to be more as
> comedic foils... where they've actually interacted with one another.
I'd apply the term "stooges" on Runabout + Runamuck & Rumble +
Frenzy .
The rest were all featured as a capable threat at one point or
another .
> Dreadwing and Darkwing never met in the cartoons, but they were funny
> enough in the comics.
I'm not well versed in the Marvel Comics Universe , but Dreadwing and
Darkwing were featured in Masterforce quite a lot , first as a
credible threat and later on as the punching bags of PM Prime .
Dunno why but I'd really like Classics toys for Runabout +
Runamuck . :)
Bouth got the "stoogeness" factor and because of their slightly crappy
G1 toy incarnations .
Onslaught Six
<ahsan.salahud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dreadwing and Darkwing never met in the cartoons, but they were funny
> enough in the comics.
Were they even 'in' the cartoon?
ahsan.sa...@gmail.com
Same difference. I've never seen Masterforce or Victory or any of
those series, maybe they were in those.