Does Beast Wars Deserve a Revisit?

[Ultra Magnotron]

As most of you may know, I missed out on collecting anything
from the Beast Wars toyline. In more recent days there have
been a growing number of transfans who've enjoyed speculating
about a return to beast altmodes, and that got me thinking about
how well that might be received.

Do you think this is something Habsro needs to revisit? Would
you prefer it be a completely new main toyline, or just a few
choice characters spattered throughout the current releases?
If they did do a second Beast Era, do you think a new CGI series
would be a as successful as the original Beast Wars?

Speaking only for myself I would love to see Predacons and
Maximals introduced into the current aligned continuity. It
would be interesing to see leaders of those factions interact
with the current Autobot and Decepticon leaders. A war between
all four could be epic, if done correctly. Simply having
the Predacons and Maximals leaderless, but serving Optimus Prime
and Megatron could also be interesting. I just think the dynamic
relationships involved in those kinds of stories could have a lot
of potential. Besides, you kind of see this in Airachnid on Prime
anyway... Just not as extreme as it could be.

So what do you think?

--
The Transformers (G1) Subtitles:
http://www.box.com/s/931509f9d6b565d675d8

My Transformers Blog:
http://www.elden.co/transformers

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

[Joseph Bradford]

On 6/4/2012 1:46 PM, Ultra Magnotron wrote:
> As most of you may know, I missed out on collecting anything
> from the Beast Wars toyline. In more recent days there have
> been a growing number of transfans who've enjoyed speculating
> about a return to beast altmodes, and that got me thinking about
> how well that might be received.
>
> Do you think this is something Habsro needs to revisit? Would
> you prefer it be a completely new main toyline, or just a few
> choice characters spattered throughout the current releases?
> If they did do a second Beast Era, do you think a new CGI series
> would be a as successful as the original Beast Wars?
>
> Speaking only for myself I would love to see Predacons and
> Maximals introduced into the current aligned continuity. It
> would be interesing to see leaders of those factions interact
> with the current Autobot and Decepticon leaders. A war between
> all four could be epic, if done correctly. Simply having
> the Predacons and Maximals leaderless, but serving Optimus Prime
> and Megatron could also be interesting. I just think the dynamic
> relationships involved in those kinds of stories could have a lot
> of potential. Besides, you kind of see this in Airachnid on Prime
> anyway... Just not as extreme as it could be.
>
> So what do you think?
>

I think it could work if they were integrated into the machine-based TF
mythos. Let's face it, the Predacons, Insecticons, Dinobots, etc
weren't fooling anybody. What good is an alt mode for a robot in
disguise if no one is fooled? Integrate real animal modes into the
machine-based story and it would be cool. What I don't want to see is a
full return to BW.

[Ultra Magnotron]

On 6/4/2012 11:56 AM, Joseph Bradford wrote:
> I think it could work if they were integrated into the machine-based TF
> mythos. Let's face it, the Predacons, Insecticons, Dinobots, etc
> weren't fooling anybody. What good is an alt mode for a robot in
> disguise if no one is fooled? Integrate real animal modes into the
> machine-based story and it would be cool. What I don't want to see is a
> full return to BW.

Beast Wars began with life-like animal exteriors (because,
let's face it, all of them were shell-formers), and I don't
see why you can't incorporate the life-like beast modes into
the newer aligned continuity. I don't see why Cheetor couldn't
be done, with an all new mold, to be a realistic Cheetah in
beast mode and bad-ass bot in robot mode.

But, yeah, it wouldn't be practical to do Insecticons or
Dinobots. I mean the Insecticons we have now in Prime are
not at all in disguise. Sure they look real enough, but
their size isn't helping them any. Who would believe an
actual beetle could be that large?

[Joseph Bradford]

On 6/4/2012 2:30 PM, Ultra Magnotron wrote:
> On 6/4/2012 11:56 AM, Joseph Bradford wrote:
>> I think it could work if they were integrated into the machine-based TF
>> mythos. Let's face it, the Predacons, Insecticons, Dinobots, etc
>> weren't fooling anybody. What good is an alt mode for a robot in
>> disguise if no one is fooled? Integrate real animal modes into the
>> machine-based story and it would be cool. What I don't want to see is a
>> full return to BW.
>
> Beast Wars began with life-like animal exteriors (because,
> let's face it, all of them were shell-formers), and I don't
> see why you can't incorporate the life-like beast modes into
> the newer aligned continuity. I don't see why Cheetor couldn't
> be done, with an all new mold, to be a realistic Cheetah in
> beast mode and bad-ass bot in robot mode.
>
> But, yeah, it wouldn't be practical to do Insecticons or
> Dinobots. I mean the Insecticons we have now in Prime are
> not at all in disguise. Sure they look real enough, but
> their size isn't helping them any. Who would believe an
> actual beetle could be that large?
>

Exactly. Alt-modes need to be true disguises. I could maybe see the
Dinobots still being done just because their alt-modes are capable of
doing just as much (maybe more) damage than their robot modes. They
don't need to hide from anybody. To usher in a whole new era of beasts
though, it needs to be done right and needs to be woven into
machine-based continuity.

[Onslaught Six]

On Jun 4, 2:46 pm, Ultra Magnotron <ultra.magnot...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> As most of you may know, I missed out on collecting anything
> from the Beast Wars toyline. In more recent days there have
> been a growing number of transfans who've enjoyed speculating
> about a return to beast altmodes, and that got me thinking about
> how well that might be received.
>
> Do you think this is something Habsro needs to revisit? Would
> you prefer it be a completely new main toyline, or just a few
> choice characters spattered throughout the current releases?
> If they did do a second Beast Era, do you think a new CGI series
> would be a as successful as the original Beast Wars?

I've been saying for YEARS that I would absolutely love and adore a BW
reboot comic. One that takes place in 1996, where Optimus Prime and
Megatron take on beast modes to further their war, and everyone is in
line with their techspec descriptions. Absolutely love. Or any kind of
reboot!

That's my big problem with BW fanboys in this day and age--they act
like 'their' interpretation of Transformers (read: just Beast Wars,
nothing else, especially not Beast Machines!) is the only valid one
and everything else sucked. I mean, G1 has its whiners too, but most
of them understand that everything is constantly being rebooted and
their series is the basis for everything. The movie universe is
arguably a G1 reboot. So is Animated and Prime.

BW...doesn't ever get that reboot. It's only ever the one universe,
the BW one. Even when IDW was doing up new comics, they had, in my
mind, three valid options:

1) Make comics that sort of "fit in" to spaces between episodes of the
original cartoon, starring the original cast, as if this comic was
being made alongside the series. Lots of cartoons in the 90s used this
ethos--Batman: TAS had a comic book series, for example, that had
several issues take place inbetween episodes of the cartoon. Archie's
TMNT comic arguably took place in the cartoon universe, but greatly
expanded it with tons of new adventures.

One major reasons some people say this kind of series will never work
is that you can't impact any lasting changes. Introducing a new
character, you have to either kill him off before the next "episode"
or invent a reason why he's not there in the show (he flew off into
space, never to return!). My disagreement with that argument is that
ALL THE TIME in cartoons, characters die or leave and are never spoken
of again. After Tigatron and Airazor "die" in the end of BW Season 1,
they generally aren't ever referred to again until Tigerhawk shows up
at the end. Terrorsaur and Scorponok get thrown into lava in the S2
premiere, and the only time that's ever brought up again is in the
intro. Hell, the 97 Botcon comic has two entirely new guys, Fractyl
and Packrat, who are just hanging out with the cast as if they've been
there the entire time.

1a) One way to circumvent the argument above is that IDW could've done
a "reboot" series that closely adhered to the original series.
Maximals and Predacons crash on prehistoric Earth, Dinobot defects,
etc. but make sure things are done subtley enough that it's definitely
an alternate universe. In other words, the difference between Marvel
G1 and Sunbow G1. I would've been fine with this. I think it would've
been less original, but still.

2) A new story! Using Japanese and toy-only guys, and maybe some show
characters. Maybe it's a prequel to BW and shows why Optimus Primal is
in charge of an exploration vessel. Maybe it's an alternate future
that disregards BM (yuck). Dunno.

My point is, they came up with a kind of original good story
(Magmatron needs troops, because...he's a bad guy!) but then they
threw a wrench into it and made it all happen on prehistoric Earth so
that...they could show off show characters. I mean, I get it, the '96
cartoon is pretty much the only reason most of the fandom would like a
BW comic. It makes sense to feature those characters. But IDW's series
didn't do anything with them. They had new characters go back in time
to hang out in the same time period, but then...had them be
"chronologically displaced" so that the new characters could NEVER
interact with the show characters. Why? Why do that? So that they
could show the new guys doing stuff, in a time period they explicitly
were in so they could interact with the show guys, and then NEVER MAKE
THEM INTERACT, just show Cheetor for two panels. Because, hey, you
guys like Cheetor, right?! That's a thing, yeah?

I mean, fine, if you really want to do that--then go full monty with
it. Magmatron goes back in time and screw with the timestream or
whatever, and now Optimus Primal and Megatron have to team up to stop
him and make sure their time period doesn't get messed up. That's
cool! That's interesting! It brings in new characters people want to
see, and characters from the show, and does a new story for both.

But no. BW fans are whiny and would've complained that their precious
favourite series was being tainted by some comic series. So instead,
Magmatron just goes back in time and...looks at Megatron from afar.
That's it.

This is setting aside actual problems I had with the stories, like the
fact that Razorbeast (who is the starring character nobody wanted to
see) decides to tie up TM2 Ravage. With rope. Remember, Ravage is a
guy who is covered in spikes. So, you know, he can probably just
wiggle around and get out of that. (AND HE DID.)

> Speaking only for myself I would love to see Predacons and
> Maximals introduced into the current aligned continuity. It
> would be interesing to see leaders of those factions interact
> with the current Autobot and Decepticon leaders. A war between
> all four could be epic, if done correctly. Simply having
> the Predacons and Maximals leaderless, but serving Optimus Prime
> and Megatron could also be interesting. I just think the dynamic
> relationships involved in those kinds of stories could have a lot
> of potential. Besides, you kind of see this in Airachnid on Prime
> anyway... Just not as extreme as it could be.

RID at least sort of implies that this is the case; if you completely
ignore the context hints from Car Robots and are taking it as its own
separate entity. The Predacons find the stasis pods and they become
Decepticons, without trying to justify the term or acting like it's
anything different. They're bad guys who turn into vehicles. That
makes them Decepticons! Simple as that, y'know?

Now, in Car Robots, it was different, because there's never an
explicit split between the Autobots/Decepticons and Maximals/
Predacons--in BW, BWII and Neo, it's all established that the factions
are simply called Cybertrons and Destrons, as they'd always been. They
just got new logos. (In fact, the colours of the logos aren't as cut-
and-dried as they are in the US series, either. BWII's Maximal
spaceship has a huge blue Maximal logo on it.)

Gigatron calls his terrorist subfaction the Destrongers--a pun since
he believes them all to be 'stronger' than the other Destrons. This
proves incredibly false, which is part of Gigatron's whole gimmick.
He's such an overblown bragster that it's hilarious! The Bruticus
repaints get called Combatrons (same name they had in G1) but I'm not
sure if Scourge/Black Convoy is ever referred to being "part" of them
in Car Robots, so I'm not sure where the distinction lies.

Anyway, point is, in Japan, that was already it. If you turn into a
car, you're an "Autobot," if you're a furry, you're a "Maximal."
Although, during the mid-2000s, I basically took a policy that anyone
operating during that time period was actually a Maximal, and anyone
claiming to be an Autobot was mostly doing so for bragging rights. (I
wrote lots of fanfic set during BW's "present day" peacetime.)

[William Rendfeld]

I expect that revisiting Beast Wars will happen eventually, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. When it does happen, however, I'd prefer new toy designs and new characters over simply redoing the old show and rereleasing the old toys.

[Zobovor]

On Jun 4, 2:05 pm, Onslaught Six <onslaught...@gmail.com> wrote:

> One major reasons some people say this kind of series will never work
> is that you can't impact any lasting changes. Introducing a new
> character, you have to either kill him off before the next "episode"
> or invent a reason why he's not there in the show (he flew off into
> space, never to return!).

Earth is a really big place. It's even bigger when the characters who
inhabit the planet have no means of long-range travel or
communication, depending entirely on their beast modes for
locomotion. There's plenty of room on prehistoric Earth for another
faction, or several more factions, of Maximals and Predacons who are
also fighting the Beast Wars on other continents. That's what I think
all the non-show characters are doing—hanging out in Africa or some
such place during the events of the show. Of course, the fact that
very few of the 1996-97 characters transitioned over to Transmetal or
Transmetal 2 form (Iguanus and Spittor, basically, and that's it)
suggests that there was some huge cataclysm that befell most of them.
And the fact that none of them returned for Beast Machines suggests
that either they all died, or Optimus Primal was unaware of their
existence so he left them stranded on Earth when the Ark shuttle
departed for Cybertron.

I mean, really, ten robots beating each other up isn't really a war.


Zob

[Zobovor]

On Jun 4, 12:46 pm, Ultra Magnotron <ultra.magnot...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Do you think this is something Habsro needs to revisit? Would
> you prefer it be a completely new main toyline, or just a few
> choice characters spattered throughout the current releases?

It seems like Hasbro has periodically tried to revisit Beast Wars, but
it just never seems to go too well. The reissue toys that came with
Transmutate pieces were far too expensive, and it seems like they came
a little too soon (only eight years after some of the toys had been
released). The Beast Wars characters that they sprinkled into the
Robot Heroes assortment seemed to linger on the pegs well after all
the G1 and movie characters were sold out. And we all know how well
Universe Cheetor and Universe Dinobot didn't do.

I think a resurgence in Beast Wars' popularity is inevitable, but
maybe not until it's closer to hitting the 20-year mark. When the
10th anniversary toys came out, kids who were five years old in 1996
were still only 15—not really old enough to be transitioning into
adult collectors. I think Hasbro has been wise to test the waters
occasionally, but given the lackluster response to their efforts, I
just think they need to give it more time.


Zob

[Gustavo Wombat]

On Monday, June 4, 2012 12:30:34 PM UTC-7, Ultra Magnotron wrote:
> Beast Wars began with life-like animal exteriors (because,
> let's face it, all of them were shell-formers),

You clearly didn't collect them. There were a few shell-formers, but a surprising number of them weren't shell-formery at all.

There was a tendency to overdo the Animal-Stands-Up-And-Theres-A-Head-Swap transformation.

[Gustavo Wombat]

On Monday, June 4, 2012 10:05:18 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Jun 4, 2:05 pm, Onslaught Six <onslaught...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One major reasons some people say this kind of series will never work
> > is that you can't impact any lasting changes. Introducing a new
> > character, you have to either kill him off before the next "episode"
> > or invent a reason why he's not there in the show (he flew off into
> > space, never to return!).
>
> Earth is a really big place. It's even bigger when the characters who
> inhabit the planet have no means of long-range travel or
> communication, depending entirely on their beast modes for
> locomotion. There's plenty of room on prehistoric Earth for another
> faction, or several more factions, of Maximals and Predacons who are
> also fighting the Beast Wars on other continents. That's what I think
> all the non-show characters are doing—hanging out in Africa or some
> such place during the events of the show. Of course, the fact that
> very few of the 1996-97 characters transitioned over to Transmetal or
> Transmetal 2 form (Iguanus and Spittor, basically, and that's it)
> suggests that there was some huge cataclysm that befell most of them.

Or some huge cataclysm failed to befall most of them. The quantum surge could have been blocked by the Earth, and only affected one side (or it could have passed through the Earth affecting everything with its quantum magic). So, since the quantum surge TransMetalized transformers, it would explain the lack of Transmetal Manterror.

> And the fact that none of them returned for Beast Machines suggests
> that either they all died, or Optimus Primal was unaware of their
> existence so he left them stranded on Earth when the Ark shuttle
> departed for Cybertron.

How many stasis pods were there? Lots. He just missed them. Because he was a bonehead.

[Gustavo Wombat]

On Monday, June 4, 2012 11:46:35 AM UTC-7, Ultra Magnotron wrote:
> As most of you may know, I missed out on collecting anything
> from the Beast Wars toyline. In more recent days there have
> been a growing number of transfans who've enjoyed speculating
> about a return to beast altmodes, and that got me thinking about
> how well that might be received.


> Do you think this is something Habsro needs to revisit? Would
> you prefer it be a completely new main toyline, or just a few
> choice characters spattered throughout the current releases?
> If they did do a second Beast Era, do you think a new CGI series
> would be a as successful as the original Beast Wars?

I'm really pretty sick of CGI.

> Speaking only for myself I would love to see Predacons and
> Maximals introduced into the current aligned continuity. It
> would be interesing to see leaders of those factions interact
> with the current Autobot and Decepticon leaders. A war between
> all four could be epic, if done correctly. Simply having
> the Predacons and Maximals leaderless, but serving Optimus Prime
> and Megatron could also be interesting. I just think the dynamic
> relationships involved in those kinds of stories could have a lot
> of potential. Besides, you kind of see this in Airachnid on Prime
> anyway... Just not as extreme as it could be.

Honestly, I don't see it working in TF:Prime. They've already introduced the insecticons, and made them just beastial Decepticon swarms.

> So what do you think?

If TF:Prime lasts for a few more years, Hasbro will likely need to do something significantly different to follow it, and a return to beasts might be it.

I'd rather they go a different direction, rather than just rehashing what came before.

No Cybertron, and no Earth. Transformers are a space faring race, who have been to a thousand worlds, sometimes leaving artifacts behind, sometimes members of their own kind. Optimus and his merry band of space cops are on the hunt for the ruthless Megatron, a criminal and a pirate -- make the good guys the aggressors or something.

I want something that when you look at it closely, you wonder if it even really is Transformers.

[Zobovor]

On Jun 4, 11:46 pm, Gustavo Wombat <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > let's face it, all of them were shell-formers),
>
> You clearly didn't collect them. There were a few shell-formers, but a surprising number of them weren't shell-formery at all.

Indeed. Now, say, if we're talking Beast Wars Neo, on the other
hand...


Zob

[Ultra Magnotron]

On 6/4/2012 10:46 PM, Gustavo Wombat wrote:
> You clearly didn't collect them. There were a few shell-formers,
> but a surprising number of them weren't shell-formery at all.
>
> There was a tendency to overdo the Animal-Stands-Up-And-Theres-A-Head-Swap
> transformation.

My bad. That's good to hear though. I'm not a big fan of the
shell-formers.

[Ultra Magnotron]

On 6/4/2012 11:23 PM, Gustavo Wombat wrote:
> I'd rather they go a different direction, rather than just rehashing
> what came before.
> No Cybertron, and no Earth. Transformers are a space faring race,
> who have been to a thousand worlds, sometimes leaving artifacts behind,
> sometimes members of their own kind. Optimus and his merry band of space cops are on the hunt for the ruthless Megatron, a criminal and a pirate -- make the good guys the aggressors or something.
>
> I want something that when you look at it closely, you wonder if it even really is Transformers.

Yeah, I like this. I like it a lot. As much as I'd love to see this
happen with the next reboot, I doubt it would ever happen.

Well, at least not in the cartoons. This sounds like something you
might see happen in the comics.

[Onslaught Six]

On Jun 5, 1:05 am, Zobovor <zm...@aol.com> wrote:

> Earth is a really big place.  It's even bigger when the characters who
> inhabit the planet have no means of long-range travel or
> communication, depending entirely on their beast modes for
> locomotion.  There's plenty of room on prehistoric Earth for another
> faction, or several more factions, of Maximals and Predacons who are
> also fighting the Beast Wars on other continents.  That's what I think
> all the non-show characters are doing—hanging out in Africa or some
> such place during the events of the show.  Of course, the fact that
> very few of the 1996-97 characters transitioned over to Transmetal or
> Transmetal 2 form (Iguanus and Spittor, basically, and that's it)
> suggests that there was some huge cataclysm that befell most of them.
> And the fact that none of them returned for Beast Machines suggests
> that either they all died, or Optimus Primal was unaware of their
> existence so he left them stranded on Earth when the Ark shuttle
> departed for Cybertron.

My big thing is, why even tie it to that setting, then, if you're not
going to *use* it? Beastformers IIIIN SPAAAAACE would be just as
interesting (and possibly more!) than them on Prehistoric Earth for No
Reason. I mean, I can understand wanting to tie it to the existing
stuff, but to me, there was a whole aspect of BW that wasn't explored
'at all' in the show--the present-day Cybertron. The only Maximals and
Predacons we ever see are a research team and some terrorists. (And a
triumverate of politicians who only appear in shadows.) Megatron just
*says* the Predacons are being oppressed; we never really see that
happening in the present. That, to me, is the far more interesting
story.

...As for why any non-show guys might have beast modes without having
been to Earth...well, the Maximals clearly have some kind of database
for animals and would surely be *aware* of Earth, even if many
confidential records were sealed. They're all able to make up new
punny names based on their altmode without being told what they turn
into--presumably their computers might even recognize the scanned
Beast Mode immediately, like a Pokedex; "You've scanned a cheetah.
Cheetahs are really fast."

Why would they have them on Cybertron? I dunno. Maybe other planets
have animals. Maybe humanity evacuated them after their nuclear wars
that caused all those European exclusive guys to be neon colours.
(What? That's totally canon, you can't prove otherwise!) Maybe there's
just planets that have unrelated animals, like that time we wrote a
fanfic where Retrax was a guy who crashed on a planet of giant
pillbugs, and he became their God-like leader. (And Torca crashed on a
planet of Elephaorcas.)

[Onslaught Six]

On Jun 5, 1:11 pm, Ultra Magnotron <ultra.magnot...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Yeah, I like this. I like it a lot. As much as I'd love to see this
> happen with the next reboot, I doubt it would ever happen.
>
> Well, at least not in the cartoons. This sounds like something you
> might see happen in the comics.

People forget that RID did this. All of the Autobots had day jobs.
Fire Convoy chilled out in a fire department. In the first episode, he
tells his driver that he's been "remotely contacted" and that he's
going off to do another job while being controlled remotely from base.
In fact, some of the Autobots actually believe they 'are' the vehicles
they turn into. (Skid-Z and Tow-Line, for example.)

[Ultra Magnotron]

On 6/5/2012 10:24 AM, Onslaught Six wrote:
> People forget that RID did this. All of the Autobots had day jobs.
> Fire Convoy chilled out in a fire department. In the first episode, he
> tells his driver that he's been "remotely contacted" and that he's
> going off to do another job while being controlled remotely from base.
> In fact, some of the Autobots actually believe they 'are' the vehicles
> they turn into. (Skid-Z and Tow-Line, for example.)

RID did this on Earth. Forgive me, but I'm sick of TF stories
happening here on this planet. There are thousands of other
worlds to explore. Why remain here?

If has anything to do with the fact kids need human kid characters
to identify with (or some similar nonsense) then set the story
in the future and have humans exploring other worlds. Maybe they
encounter the Autobots and Decepticons in the middle of a vicious
battle, and young humans get caught in the crossfire.

You can also explore the relationships between alien creatures
and humans... and giant transforming robots. This would be much
more interesting than boring old Earth.

[Travoltron]

Beast Wars Neo had them exploring space.

[Ultra Magnotron]

On 6/5/2012 2:42 PM, Travoltron wrote:
> Beast Wars Neo had them exploring space.

I really need to watch that show with English subtitles.
Alas, I know not where to download the videos.

[Travoltron]

On 6/5/2012 3:07 PM, Ultra Magnotron wrote:
> On 6/5/2012 2:42 PM, Travoltron wrote:
>> Beast Wars Neo had them exploring space.
>
> I really need to watch that show with English subtitles.
> Alas, I know not where to download the videos.

Neo will finally be released in Japan on DVD this year.
Then perhaps fansubs will happen, or maybe even Shout! will pick the
series up.

[Zobovor]

On Jun 5, 11:22 am, Onslaught Six <onslaught...@gmail.com> wrote:

> presumably their computers might even recognize the scanned
> Beast Mode immediately, like a Pokedex; "You've scanned a cheetah.
> Cheetahs are really fast."

That's awesome. I'm hearing this being explained in the voice of the
Diagnostic Drone.


Zob