Worst Character Bio Concept Ever
Chad Rushing
and yellow Mudflap, at Toys R Us on the first try this weekend.
Fortunately, they had one left of each, and I got them both.
Anyway, I was reading the Bio for Inferno, the ARM Red Alert redeco,
and I really did not care for it at all:
"The long war, [sic] and the devastation of CYBERTRON left many
AUTOBOTS wondering if there was any point to continuing to function.
That's where INFERNO comes in. Complex diagnostic programs allow him
to link with his fellow robots, downloading and analyzing their
feelings. He can then upload a software patch, [sic] or even rewrite
core code to help his patients cope. Though he is not as recognizable
as AUTOBOT RATCHET, at least as many robots owe their lives to INFERNO
as to his more famous comrade."
Firstly, somebody at Hasbro has to learn how to use commas reasonably
well:
"When a coordinating conjunction joins two words, phrases, or
subordinate clauses, no comma should be placed before the
conjunction."
Secondly, it seems we are now to believe that the way you help a
sentient being such as a Transformer to deal effectively with his
stress, anger, or dispair is to "patch" or "rewrite" the software in
his mind. I know we have seen that sort of thing in the past with the
Robo Smasher or the core programming for Maximal/Predacon protoforms,
but I still find the whole idea of "fixing" their emotional states
that way repulsive.
INFERNO: "Feeling down about your comrade in arms being killed by the
Decepticons? I can fix that right up with this software patch to your
emotional subroutines. After applying it, you will never feel grief
over a dead friend ever again. Won't that be great?"
I would have almost preferred for Inferno to be the Autobot
Psychiatrist who prescribed his patients mind-altering, highly
addictive medications which were specialized forms of Energon (ex.
Prozacigon or Paxiligon). At least he would not be directly tampering
with their minds like he was some sort of Autobot Dr. Mindbender that
way.
- Chad
who did software patch development for nearly two years
Chad Rushing
Mudflap's Bio:
"MUDFLAP long ago earned a reputation as one of the most vicious of
the DECEPTICONS, known for turning his molecule-edge saw on weakened
or disabled AUTOBOTS. Little does anyone suspect, however, but his
cruelty arises from his own conflicted feelings about the war. For
ages, he has doubted the DECEPTICON cause, and secretly yearned to
join the AUTOBOTS. His reputation is so monstrous that OPTIMUS PRIME
would never trust him, and so he is condemned to continue serving
MEGATRON, and taking out his frustration on his captives."
It would read much more smoothly as follows:
"MUDFLAP long ago earned a reputation as one of the most vicious of
the DECEPTICONS, known for turning his molecule-edge saw on weakened
or disabled AUTOBOTS. Little does anyone suspect, however, that his
cruelty arises from his own conflicted feelings about the war. For
ages he has doubted the DECEPTICON cause and secretly yearned to join
the AUTOBOTS. His reputation is so monstrous that OPTIMUS PRIME would
never trust him, so he is condemned to continue serving MEGATRON and
taking out his frustration on his captives."
In order to keep this on-topic, I suggest Autobot Psychiatrist for
Inferno's function and Decepticon Jailer (or Warden) for Mudflap's
function due to the reference to his "captives."
- Chad
Chad Rushing
>
> There is more questionable grammer and punctuation in TRU Movie
> Mudflap's Bio:
Make that "grammar." That's what I get for posting in the middle of
the night.
- Chad
SteveD
wrote:
>INFERNO: "Feeling down about your comrade in arms being killed by the
>Decepticons? I can fix that right up with this software patch to your
>emotional subroutines. After applying it, you will never feel grief
>over a dead friend ever again. Won't that be great?"
I wonder if there are any security flaws introduced by applying standard
patches to heterogeneous systems?
"Oh yeah, by the way, if anyone says "Iacon Security Two Two Alpha" while
handing you a left-handed turbospanner, your knees will fall off. It's a
persistent bug, no-one knows why. Welp, see ya!"
-SteveD
Thunder Magnificent!
> It would read much more smoothly as follows:
<SNIP>
I was thinking of a shorter more simpler way when reading the first
paragraph (Hasbro version). Some of the way they wrote it sounds stupid
anyway.
"Little does anyone suspect, however, that his cruelty arises from his
own conflicted feelings about the war." The "however" is totally
useless--why not re-do the sentence without it?
"Little does anyone suspect that his cruelty arises from his own
conflicted feelings about the war".
The whole bio sounds like someone should have edited it once or twice
before putting it out. :)
t.k.
Ash Brown
Grammar seems to be a poorly lacking skill in society as of late. I
think that the word, "however," is used to add a bit of drama to the Bio.
But, the word is somewhat useless and the sentence would flow much better
without it. Saying that, a kid could give a damn about it to begin with.
The Spec is probably ripped to pieces in the process of prying the toy from
it's package. If the child can friggin' find one to begin with! In any
event, a proofreader should read in advance.
On another note, this toy should have been named 'Erector.' If Hasbro
does own the rights, then 'Autobot Erector,' as the toy is almost certainly
a homage to the G1 Micromaster of the same name.
Galvatro
"Thunder Magnificent!" <dece...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:aPyck.84997$gc5.21303@pd7urf2no...
Gustavo Wombat
I find this absolutely fascinating. It points out that the
Transformers are just machines, and that solutions to all problems are
likely mechanicalish. Have some emotional problem? We can fix that.
That said, we also see Animated Red Alert, who clearly hasn't taken
advantage of this option (assuming it exists in Animated), even though
he does carry around the emotional harm from the war. It makes you
wonder why he wouldn't use this option, and why other Transformers
weren't using personality patches to be better at their jobs. Most
well flushed out Transformers have personality flaws they would like
to overcome, and this seems like the most efficient and easiest
method.
Too lazy to meet your goals? Get the industrious upgrade!
Is there a social stigma against it? Are there horrible side effects?
Is it basically a lobotomy? Inquiring minds want to know.
And I don't think it is all that far from proscribing drugs to change
the personality. That's just a different method of achieving the same
results (or more subtle results).
On one of those weird personal asides that makes everyone
uncomfortable, after a year in which I had a blood clot in my leg, my
father nearly died from a pulmonary embolism (worst case scenario for
a blood clot, well 2nd worse since it wasn't a stroke), my brother
died, and one of my uncles began the slow painful death of cancer[*],
I was barely functional and put on antidepressants. It's shocking how
much of the personality is affected by chemical reactions, and it made
me wonder what was *me* underneath all of it.
I've never really believed in God, per say, but this was the first
time I actually confronted the obvious corollary that I might not have
a soul.
Curiously, this is not far from the issues at the heart of Tankor,
Jetstorm, and Thrust's story arcs in Beast Machines.
[*] Whenever someone looks at a Cheeseburger and Fries, and calls it a
"heart attack on a plate", I smile, since that's really one of the
better options.
> INFERNO: "Feeling down about your comrade in arms being killed by the
> Decepticons? I can fix that right up with this software patch to your
> emotional subroutines. After applying it, you will never feel grief
> over a dead friend ever again. Won't that be great?"
>
> I would have almost preferred for Inferno to be the Autobot
> Psychiatrist who prescribed his patients mind-altering, highly
> addictive medications which were specialized forms of Energon (ex.
> Prozacigon or Paxiligon). At least he would not be directly tampering
> with their minds like he was some sort of Autobot Dr. Mindbender that
> way.
Depending on the outcomes, mind tampering might be preferable. Of
course, you then begin to wonder if it is ever used as a punishment,
to "cure" criminals of their tendencies, and what safeguards are in
place (if any) to curb abuse.
> - Chad
> who did software patch development for nearly two years
What a coincidence: I have committed the bugs that were responsible
for patches! Lots and lots of CDs went out to upgrade software, back
in the day when patches were distributed by CD.
Gustavo!
Cappeca
> INFERNO: "Feeling down about your comrade in arms being killed by the
> Decepticons? I can fix that right up with this software patch to your
> emotional subroutines. After applying it, you will never feel grief
> over a dead friend ever again. Won't that be great?"
>
> I would have almost preferred for Inferno to be the Autobot
> Psychiatrist who prescribed his patients mind-altering, highly
> addictive medications which were specialized forms of Energon (ex.
> Prozacigon or Paxiligon). At least he would not be directly tampering
> with their minds like he was some sort of Autobot Dr. Mindbender that
> way.
>
I liked it, in some twisted way. Patching right through one's
emotional software would be the equivalent to lobotomy, wouldn't it?
Maybe I'm seeing too much into it, but right now I'm writing a fanfic
about a Cybertronian drug called Dump-Load, involving the rush over
memory dumps and loads and how that would fry your circuits in no
time, so I've been thinking a lot about how Transformers would play
with their own memory banks and behavior software. The bio would be
better if they gave some hint that his practice is controversial,
though. I don't think any Autobot should be bragging about playing
with other robots minds, but the fact that they indeed do is
interesting.
Zobovor
> I find this absolutely fascinating. It points out that the
> Transformers are just machines, and that solutions to all problems are
> likely mechanicalish. Have some emotional problem? We can fix that.
I share your fascination, sir. When I was a kid I was delighted and a
little scared by the concept of hypnotism (or at least the way it was
portrayed on TV), the idea that people could be "programmed" to do
certain things against their will. Obviously true hypnotism isn't
quite like that, if indeed it even exists, but the prospect of
forcibly altering the mind is one of my pet issues.
In writing my long-neglected fanfic "Children of Cybertron," I'm doing
a lot of exploration of this issue using a variety of different
characters. If Smokescreen's mind is transferred to the body of a
Decepticon, is he still an Autobot? If the Decepticon named Snipe
gets a brain transplant using the Technobot named Afterburner as a
donor, is he still Snipe, or is he now Afterburner? If Optimus Prime
is struck with amnesia, is he still Optimus Prime? (There's more, but
I don't want to spoil everything until I actually post Book Six of the
story.)
> Most well flushed out Transformers have personality flaws they would
> like to overcome. <snip> Is there a social stigma against it? Are there
> horrible side effects? Is it basically a lobotomy? Inquiring minds want
> to know.
Variety is the spice of life. Cybertron would get pretty boring if it
were populated with perfect robots. Maybe it's the character flaws
that stand out and help one Autobot among millions get noticed by
Optimus Prime? Or, conversely, maybe some of the personality flaws
run so deeply and are so ingrained into their programming that a
software patch isn't a feasible option. (Swindle: "Megatron, I can't
help it! This greed is built into my personality component!")
> And I don't think it is all that far from proscribing drugs to change
> the personality. <snip> It's shocking how much of the personality
> is affected by chemical reactions, and it made me wonder what was
> *me* underneath all of it.
No kidding. I get really cranky and irritable when I don't get enough
sleep. (Sleep deprivation causes a chemical change, right?) It's not
like I want to be nasty to people, but the tendency to lean in that
direction is a lot more prevalent for me when I'm that exhausted. On
the other end of the spectrum, when I'm pumped full of caffiene I'm
the life of the part. I act goofy, I tell jokes, and I'm generally
happier. I recognize that it's a chemical change, and that it's
probably an addiction, but it's legal (for now) and I don't think it's
harmful to me or anyone else, so I'm okay with it.
> I've never really believed in God, per say, but this was the first
> time I actually confronted the obvious corollary that I might not have
> a soul.
Depends on what you think of as a soul. If you're a human being, you
have an intangible thing called "consciousness" that can't be
pinpointed by medical science. Doctors can't point to a chart and go,
"Look, this little gland right here is what makes you a conscious,
living entity." I think that's probably what most people think of as
a soul, even if you don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that it
floats away from your body and joins heaven when you die.
Zob
Phillip Thorne
>[...] Complex diagnostic programs allow INFERNO to [...]
>upload a software patch, [sic] or even rewrite
>
>[...]
>
>Secondly, it seems we are now to believe that the way you help a
>sentient being such as a Transformer to deal effectively with his
>stress, anger, or dispair is to "patch" or "rewrite" the software in
I think ANI-Ratchet actually had a line of dialogue in an early ep
along these lines.
You might find the described practice abhorrent, but as a couple of
prior posters have noticed, Transformers aren't human -- certainly not
on the bio-neurological level. (Having millions of stellar cycles of
memories has to have *some* impact on a mentality.)
Humans can "rewrite their own software" (to an extent) but
Transformers may be unable to do so -- this might be an *essential*
form of therapy, to have an *external* reprogrammer. (Way beyond a
human needing a second human as a "sounding board.") Depending on the
origin you choose (and ANI hasn't gone into much detail beyond "the
AllSpark, source of all life"), you can impute any level of
self-awareness to them that you want.
To make this interesting, we can assume that Transformer minds consist
partially of "evolved" code, so a therapist can never be sure that a
standard patch will work quite right. Or has to tailor-program a
patch, and hope it fits. Therefore it can all go horribly wrong,
especially if they can't (for whatever reason) store stable
versions/checkpoints of their personality routines.
Or if they can... you can imagine a therapist who has special extra
memory capacity, and ends up carrying partial copies of his patients.
Woe to him if the partitioning leaks!
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
SteveD
<Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It's shocking how
>much of the personality is affected by chemical reactions, and it made
>me wonder what was *me* underneath all of it.
Based on bits of research I've picked up over the years, I assume that
what I perceive as "I" is simply the combined resulting output of a bunch
of memeplexes which in most cases don't actively contradict one another.
They can be screwed with psychologically, biochemically, and even
physically, but not generally in any precisely predictable sense given the
crudity of the tools and the lack of low-level detail available.
It's also why I think that the human brain will eventually be able to be
fairly closely simulated digitally, although I predict all kinds of odd
failure modes amongst the first couple of attempts, and I don't believe
we'll have upload capability in my lifetime.
There are some slight advantages to viewing myself as a closely-knitted
group intelligence. For one, I don't perceive 'identity' to be the
fundamental concept that many people take it for. (As an aside, there's an
interesting take on this in Vernor Vinge's _A Fire Upon the Deep_, with
the group-intelligence alien Tines, and another in David Brin's Uplift
universe with the traeki/Jophur.) For another, self-psychoanalysis is a
little easier.
(And before anyone asks, no, I'm not a multiple. There's just the one of
'me'.)
-SteveD
tomorrow4eva
> I find this absolutely fascinating. It points out that the
> Transformers are just machines, and that solutions to all problems are
> likely mechanicalish. Have some emotional problem? We can fix that.
Ratchet offered to do JUST THAT for Optimus in the first episode of
Animated.
Maybe the patches need to be customized, so it takes a while to write
one. And then the testing would take ages... and then you'd get
bugs... maybe most Cybertronians figure they're doing ok and that it's
more bother than its worth. How many Cybertronians are actually going
to admit they have personality flaws? Serious enough that they need
external help to deal with them? How many humans do?
~tomorrow4eva
Gustavo Wombat
And Ratchet disapproved of Prowl's physical upgrades in "Prowl Has A
Sidecar" (or whatever the episode was called), and was appalled that
humans sell spare parts for cars and that Bumblebee would be crass
enough to get them ("Meltdown"?). Makes you wonder why he thinks
personality upgrades are so much better.
Gustavo!
ShadowWing
"Phillip Thorne" wrote
> I think ANI-Ratchet actually had a line of dialogue in an early ep
> along these lines.
I've been waiting for someone to bring that up. :) I took it as a joke,
really.
Derik 'Inessi' Smith
> handing you a left-handed turbospanner, your knees will fall off. It's a
> persistent bug, no-one knows why. Welp, see ya!"
Is that like Roast Duck and Oysters causing you to attack your
comrades?
-Derik
Derik 'Inessi' Smith
point of the first Dreamwave series (and the iBook trilogy that
followed,) that Transformers were fundamentally immutable- their Prime
Directives did not change with experience or erode over time.
I've been gathering evidence for several years now that the oft-
mentioned "Autobot Code" or "Decepticon Code" are NOT just a common
set of agreed-upon moral guidelines- but are actually SHELL programs
that every member agrees to install. Thus- Autobots can trust one
another to be kind, noble, true etc etc etc... because they ARE,
whether they want to be or not. (Albeit, some are better at this then
others.)
The Energon cartoon probably has the best example of this- but
Wreckers #3 has the most interesting version...
-Derik
Grebo
cybertronian psychotherapist.
On Jul 7, 11:46 pm, Gustavo Wombat <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I find this absolutely fascinating. It points out that the
> Transformers are just machines, and that solutions to all problems are
> likely mechanicalish. Have some emotional problem? We can fix that.
Sounds pretty much like a shrink giving prescription medication to
mentally unstable patients. Not neceassrily the best solution to a
psych problem, but definitely a battlefield-expedient one.
> That said, we also see Animated Red Alert, who clearly hasn't taken
> advantage of this option (assuming it exists in Animated), even though
> he does carry around the emotional harm from the war. It makes you
> wonder why he wouldn't use this option, and why other Transformers
> weren't using personality patches to be better at their jobs. Most
> well flushed out Transformers have personality flaws they would like
> to overcome, and this seems like the most efficient and easiest
> method.
Well, Animated Red Alert/Ratchet/Ironhide is a Medic, not a
Psychotherapist. He simply isn't built/prgrammed for that kind of
work.
> And I don't think it is all that far from proscribing drugs to change
> the personality. That's just a different method of achieving the same
> results (or more subtle results).
Bingo.
> I've never really believed in God, per say, but this was the first
> time I actually confronted the obvious corollary that I might not have
> a soul.
>
> Curiously, this is not far from the issues at the heart of Tankor,
> Jetstorm, and Thrust's story arcs in Beast Machines.
DAMN. Color me floored.
Grebo!
Grebo
The highly-sophisticated "Derik 'Inessi' Smith" wrote:
>
> I've been gathering evidence for several years now that the oft-
> mentioned "Autobot Code" or "Decepticon Code" are NOT just a common
> set of agreed-upon moral guidelines - but are actually SHELL programs
> that every member agrees to install. Thus - Autobots can trust one
> another to be kind, noble, true etc etc etc... because they ARE,
> whether they want to be or not. (Albeit, some are better at this than
> others.)
Arrrgh, you big tease. Tell us more. MORE! Must have overthinky
information, NOW.
> The Energon cartoon probably has the best example of this - but
> Wreckers #3 has the most interesting version...
MORE!!!!
This is a ticklingly tasty topic. T-T-T.
Grebo
Victoryleo
specs.
SteveD
<ReGen...@aol.com> wrote:
>I've been gathering evidence for several years now that the oft-
>mentioned "Autobot Code" or "Decepticon Code" are NOT just a common
>set of agreed-upon moral guidelines- but are actually SHELL programs
>that every member agrees to install. Thus- Autobots can trust one
>another to be kind, noble, true etc etc etc... because they ARE,
>whether they want to be or not. (Albeit, some are better at this then
>others.)
It might also vary depending on the processing power and skill of the
recipients. For someone with a basic CPU (or a blank-slate protoform), it
could well take up a significant chunk of their mental headroom and even
effectively take over from existing behavioural traits. A sharp-witted
intellectual, on the other hand, might be able to take it on board and
stick it in its own virtual environment, either ignoring it completely or
simply considering its promptings to be no more than suggestions.
For someone in the middle range, the shell might install but only be able
to activate a limited range of modifiers, adjusting the bot without
significantly altering their fundamental core personality.
I wonder if the G1 Robo-Smasher was a hacked version of this - illegally
wiping much of its victims' personality engrams in order to maximize the
effectiveness of the subsequent shell-program download?
Which would indicate that the Constructicons _could_ have their Decepticon
programming removed, but it would probably turn them into vegetables
unless a substitute shell program or equivalent was loaded.
Hmm... I wonder if the Dominator Disks simply suppressed the
Robo-Smasher's engrams? Maybe based on a previous design issued to Autobot
security forces or medics for dealing with Robo-smash victims?
-SteveD
Grebo
about The Secret Of Omega Supreme in which he theorized (with a lot of
credible observational evidence) that the the Robo-Smasher didn't turn
you evil, it overrode Autobot mind-control chips implanted in
Decepticon prisoners. Loved that essay, can't remember who wrote it or
where it was...
Grebo!
tomorrow4eva
> Some very clever "Decepticon sympathizer" wrote a fabulous web essay
> about The Secret Of Omega Supreme in which he theorized (with a lot of
> credible observational evidence) that the the Robo-Smasher didn't turn
> you evil, it overrode Autobot mind-control chips implanted in
> Decepticon prisoners. Loved that essay, can't remember who wrote it or
> where it was...
>
I remember seeing/reading that at one point. The only thing I remember
about the author is that I'm pretty sure it wasn't Raksha (or however
you spell her name). I think you can still find it on ATT if you do a
search.
~tomorrow4eva
Zobovor
> Some very clever "Decepticon sympathizer" wrote a fabulous web essay
> about The Secret Of Omega Supreme in which he theorized (with a lot of
> credible observational evidence) that the the Robo-Smasher didn't turn
> you evil, it overrode Autobot mind-control chips implanted in
> Decepticon prisoners. Loved that essay, can't remember who wrote it or
> where it was...
That was Vindicator, and the essay was called "The Autobots' Hidden
Master." There was some discussion about it on ATT, but he only
posted the original article to
alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated.
Zob
Grebo
YES! That was it. Vindicator, and his "Autobots' Hidden Master"
article. God, I LOVED that essay. It had video clips and sound clips
and all sorts of really super-duper-deep-geek analysis. I really
enjoyed it. The only things about it that bothered me were his wierdly
pro-Decepticon position (um, hello? They're EVIL.) and... well... his
basic premise. See, his essay's basic premise was:
"The Autobots have a dark secret: Alpha Trion is, and always has been,
their behind-the-scenes master manipulator."
Well, DUH. I think everyone already knew that. :-) Actually, the point
he ends up making instead is much more interesting -- that Alpha Trion
was not only the motivating force behind the Autobot movement, but
that Alpha Trion's motives were a selfish lust for power, and that all
his actions -- from the creation of Optimus Prime to the founding of
the Autobot army to his merging with Vector Sigma -- were pre-schemed
so that he could, in essence, ascend to a kind of pseudo-godhood.
(Sounds a lot like the Liege Maximo, actually.) I am fairly convinced
by the article in almost every way, except for the part about Alpha
Trion's motives being wholly self-serving. The rest makes tons of
sense, though. It's a brilliant essay.
Here's a link which at least mentions the thread:
http://www.builtstlouis.net/tf/att-2000.html
I'm having a hard time finding Vindicator's actual site... I guess it
went down. I'm sure I saved at least the page's text (though not the
links) to my HD somewhere.
Grebo!
Onslaught Six
> YES! That was it. Vindicator, and his "Autobots' Hidden Master"
> article. God, I LOVED that essay. It had video clips and sound clips
> and all sorts of really super-duper-deep-geek analysis. I really
> enjoyed it. The only things about it that bothered me were his wierdly
> pro-Decepticon position (um, hello? They're EVIL.) and... well... his
> basic premise. See, his essay's basic premise was:
The Decepticons aren't evil! Just misunderstood!
Alright, alright. I still like the fact that Megatron wasn't always a
total insane dude, and that the Decepticons were originally formed on
the premise of equality and the like. It's almost exactly like BW
Megatron said in the first episode of Beast Wars--"Maybe peace on
'your' side."
Of course, then Megs gets fed up with all the legal bullshit, straps a
cannon to his arm and repaints some of his bits red, and then proceeds
to murder thousands of Autobots. And then a bunch of jets with guns on
their arms go "Yeah! That's awesome!"
Gustavo Wombat
> On Jul 16, 11:23 am, Grebo <grebog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > YES! That was it. Vindicator, and his "Autobots' Hidden Master"
> > article. God, I LOVED that essay. It had video clips and sound clips
> > and all sorts of really super-duper-deep-geek analysis. I really
> > enjoyed it. The only things about it that bothered me were his wierdly
> > pro-Decepticon position (um, hello? They're EVIL.) and... well... his
> > basic premise. See, his essay's basic premise was:
>
> The Decepticons aren't evil! Just misunderstood!
They were sold in boxes labelled "Evil Decepticon". That pretty much
settles it for me.
Gustavo!
Grebo
The super-awesome Gustavo Wombat <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> They were sold in boxes labelled "Evil Decepticon". That pretty much
> settles it for me.
WORD. Thank you, GusWom. As my good friend Rock N' Roll Chicken would
say, "You RAWK!"
Grebo
Grebo
The unstoppable Onslaught Six <Onslaught...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Alright, alright. I still like the fact that Megatron wasn't always a
> total insane dude, and that the Decepticons were originally formed on
> the premise of equality and the like.
This sounds like the IDW "Megatron Origin" comic.
Which, despite the awesome Alex Milne art, I thought was complete and
utter garbage.
> It's almost exactly like BW Megatron said in the first
> episode of Beast Wars--"Maybe peace on 'your' side."
Well, BW Megs was a far more complex character whose faction was in a
far more complex situation. God BW was good.
> And then a bunch of jets with guns on
> their arms go "Yeah! That's awesome!"
I loved this line, O6. I laughed until I peed.
Grebotty-mouth
Kil - Michael McCarthy
>
> This sounds like the IDW "Megatron Origin" comic.
>
> Which, despite the awesome Alex Milne art, I thought was complete and
> utter garbage.
I think that's the first time I've seen a condemation of Megatron Origin
that cited Milne's art as a positive, rather than a large part of the
problem.
-Kil
Grebo
The fabulous "Kil - Michael McCarthy" <michaelmc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I think that's the first time I've seen a condemation of Megatron Origin
> that cited Milne's art as a positive, rather than a large part of the
> problem.
What can I say? I like Milne's art. In Megatron Origin, it looked a
little scratchy and rough (aka rushed) but it was still better than
most other TF artists, IMO.
No, I think the problem with the art was the COLORING -- it was
waayyyyyyy too dark. This is actually a common problem with IDW's
comics. Most of their other books (30 Days Of Night, etc) are really
grim and dark and heavy and dark and did I mention dark? I think IDW's
coloring department is stuck in dark mode -- MUCH to their TF comics'
detriment.
Greboptical illusion
Onslaught Six
> The unstoppable Onslaught Six <Onslaught...@gmail.com> wrote:
Grargh! I'm Unstoppable! That's probably a reference to something, but
I'm not sure what.
> This sounds like the IDW "Megatron Origin" comic.
>
> Which, despite the awesome Alex Milne art, I thought was complete and
> utter garbage.
I agree. They did it Horribly Wrong. Clench cannot die there! He needs
to be alive so he can get his Earth altmode! In the post-G2
apocalyptic future, where everyone has bright neon armour to shield
them from the radiation! Which explains why G2 Onslaught is bright
yellow!
> Well, BW Megs was a far more complex character whose faction was in a
> far more complex situation. God BW was good.
It wasn't *that* good. Sure, it was more complex than most G1, but
some of it was just average or even sub-par. I liked BM more.
> I loved this line, O6. I laughed until I peed.
I'm full of gems like this.
Gustavo Wombat
wrote:
> "Grebo" <grebog...@gmail.com> wrote...
The coloring was terrible, and made everything indistinct. It was
really a hinderance to the story. As far as Milne's art went -- each
panel was nice, but he didn't manage to tell a story despite that.
Art for stories featuring characters in bodies that are unfamiliar
really needs to be very clear. There were times I couldn't even
recognize Megatron on the first read because he changed his look.
It *was* better than Rob Ruffalo's art in the Dreamwave Micromasters
series...
Gustavo
SteveD
So they're evil. Doesn't mean they're not cool. And given the number of
people in the world today who are prepared to label millions of other
people 'evil' because they don't drive the same car or support the same
politician, I have to wonder exactly what the EVIL designation is supposed
to be telling us.
They're not nice? Well, lots of people aren't nice. Doesn't mean they're
not competent, or even the best person for a job.
They're power-hungry? Well, some of them are, I guess. Others just seem to
be along for the ride.
They'll kill you? Well, yeah, but so would anyone's army.
They're sociopathic? Look at any major international CEO.
They like blowing stuff up? Heck, so does Mythbusters.
Putting EVIL on a toy package really only works for the kids it's mainly
aimed at - they're the ones who still use a black-and-white morality. For
adults, the term is a little harder to define.
-SteveD
Chad Rushing
>
> The coloring was terrible, and made everything indistinct. It was
> really a hinderance to the story. As far as Milne's art went -- each
> panel was nice, but he didn't manage to tell a story despite that.
>
> Art for stories featuring characters in bodies that are unfamiliar
> really needs to be very clear. There were times I couldn't even
> recognize Megatron on the first read because he changed his look.
I think that any Transformers comic series should have distinct, clear
coloring and linework, especially those introducing robot or alternate
forms that are not familiar to the reader. The Transformers crossover
with G.I. Joe set in WWII has similar problems.
- Chad
Gustavo Wombat
> I totally lucked out and found the two Movie VGR exclusives, Inferno
> and yellow Mudflap, at Toys R Us on the first try this weekend.
> Fortunately, they had one left of each, and I got them both.
>
> Anyway, I was reading the Bio for Inferno, the ARM Red Alert redeco,
> and I really did not care for it at all:
>
> "The long war, [sic] and the devastation of CYBERTRON left many
> AUTOBOTS wondering if there was any point to continuing to function.
> That's where INFERNO comes in. Complex diagnostic programs allow him
> to link with his fellow robots, downloading and analyzing their
> feelings. He can then upload a software patch, [sic] or even rewrite
> core code to help his patients cope. Though he is not as recognizable
> as AUTOBOT RATCHET, at least as many robots owe their lives to INFERNO
> as to his more famous comrade."
I just want to contrast this with the Classics 2.0 Heavy Load bio:
"Back on CYBERTRON, before the war, DECEPTICON HEAVY LOAD was a
brilliant chemist and engineer, specializing in optimizing fuel
mixtures to increase the efficiency of all mechanoid life. repeated
exposure to toxic chemicals over hundreds of years slowly degraded his
cognitive systems, turning him into someone none of his friends
recognized. As his brain module rotted, he grew more and more
withdrawn, and began to focus more on his failed experiments -- the
ones that poisoned his test subjects. Now, he develops poisons and
corrosive bombs for whichever DECEPTICON can pay his fees, and
continues his experiments on helpless AUTOBOT captives."
Now, the Classics Universe is different from the Movie Universe, but I
tend push the many different variations on the Transformers together
unless they start contradicting each other. It's basically the same
story over and over.
One of the interesting things here is that Heavy Load was affected by
chemical reactions, while Inferno happily reprograms Transformers to
change their personalities. Chemicals and software patches can both
affect personalities.
Whether this is a direct conflict or not is an interesting question,
and I immediately think of the G2 comic that revealed that the
Transformers we know and love and always just considered robots have
DNA and cellular structures, and then Beast Wars which gave us
protoforms and nanites. Transformers are robots, but they mimic
biological life far more than we might think is strictly necessary.
If we accept both bios at once, we have the weird notion that a
Transformer's mind can be viewed both as a set of chemical processes,
and a complicated computer program, and that these different models
are appropriate at different times.
And, the Classics Universe is ostensibly a continuation of G1, which
would put it in the same continuity as Beast Wars, which gave us the
very softwarey shell programs, converting Maximals to Predacons. And
there was the G1 Robo Smasher. All very software. So we might not even
have to accept both bios at once.
Wacky and weird, eh? And then try to guess where the spark begins and
the circuitry ends in figuring out the personality. No wonder
Transformers need psychiatrists.
Other exciting things in Heavy Load's bio: he appears to have been a
non-aligned scientist, the chemical exposure changed him in hundreds
of years (not long at all for a Transformer), and he had been
performing dangerous experiments on living robots before his mind rot
set in (his failed experiments that had poisoned their subjects).
Gustavo!
Onslaught Six
> If we accept both bios at once, we have the weird notion that a
> Transformer's mind can be viewed both as a set of chemical processes,
> and a complicated computer program, and that these different models
> are appropriate at different times.
I have always maintained that Transformers have various screwy fluids
going through their bodies. Think of oil in a car or something. I
dunno.
Chad Rushing
>
> I have always maintained that Transformers have various screwy fluids
> going through their bodies. Think of oil in a car or something. I
> dunno.
Weren't the Decepticons subjected to "poisoned" liquid fuel in the
early days of the Marvel comics series?
- Chad
Grebo
The incredible Gustavo Wombat <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> And there was the G1 Robo Smasher. All very software.
Actually, I am of the opinion that the Robo Smasher worked on a
HARDWARE principle. I derive this opinion from Vidicator's "The
Autobots' Hidden Master" essay, which I posted here last night for
archiving and discussion purposes.
But anyway! Gustavo, I like your observations here. And I also share
your approach to TF, that it's all "basically one universe". In fact,
I enjoy (as you may have previously noticed) working all the different
universes into one coherent history, with the various "first arrival
on Earth" stories each taking place on different parallel-universe
Earths.
Anyway. On we go.
Greborganized