TF friends of mine on Toyhunter, and the toyshow

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Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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May 23, 2013, 12:24:36 PM5/23/13
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I meant to post this Sunday, but google kept giving me error 502 when
trying to post until now.

So Vince the Starwars guy, Matt the TF guy (he had found a Korean MIB
Guard City he showed me at the show, and he has so many things at
every show I drool at, like Universe Punch/counterpunch. I have to
tell him I'm not buying it for the same reason his is for sale)

I feel silly I didn't even know they were going to be on Toyhunter,
When Vince walked in and everyone started clapping, I asked if it was
because for once he arrived to set-up before the doors opened to the
public.

http://www.travelchannel.com/video/show-me-the-toys-baby

I couldn't get the video to play, but maybe my internet is just that
bad. If you can get it running, please tell me how.

Anyway, 3 people I know from my 10+ years at the Toyman Toy show in
St. Louis were on the cable TV reality show Toy hunter. Sunday was a
toyman show at which i made about $180 and spent only a little.

I got Universe Darkwing for $2 (which I will try to pair up with my
Universe Jetfire since I don't have universe Dreadwind)

At another booth I was looking at a scout class Autobot delivery
truck, who I had no idea who he was. (now I know he's Rotf Wide Load,
anyway he's cool, much of his tooling matches Machine Wars Hoist, only
backwards, kinda like he got the Universe Sunstreaker->Sideswipe
treatment)The guy wanted $5 at first, I countered with $2, and the guy
said he's give it to me for $1 if I bought all his TF toys, so I did.
At $1 each I got (all MOSC but the scout) Clear Spychanger Ironhide,
Cyberverse PRiD Knock-out(x4) Ratchet (x2) Wheeljack(x2) Rotf
Cyberverse Mudflap, Wheelie, Grindor, and Bluesteel Sideswipe, and
Cyberverse Cybertron Hot-Shot.

So 16 TFs for $17. If anyone wants to buy any of the Cyberverse stuff,
I was going to sell it all for $3 each or 4 for $10.

I passed on a yellow repaint of animated Ratchet ($2 missing accs),
and the Crossovers AT-AT ($5). I probably should have went for it.

Zobovor

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May 23, 2013, 7:41:50 PM5/23/13
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On May 23, 10:24 am, "Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People."
<Ob1ken...@att.net> wrote:

> http://www.travelchannel.com/video/show-me-the-toys-baby
>
> I couldn't get the video to play, but maybe my internet is just that
> bad. If you can get it running, please tell me how.

Sounds like you might be having computer problems. I clicked the link
and the video played for me right away.

The episode was interesting (of course it appeals to a hobby that is
near and dear to my heart). Very cool that your friends got to be on
the show. Not very much in the way of Transformers, though, were
there? They kept talking about 80's toys but then they were focusing
on Partridge Family stuff from the 1970's. (It also seems like that
web site was playing clips out of order. First Danny Bonaduce buys
stuff, then we see the toy show where Danny asks if they can maybe
find stuff for him to buy.) I have to say that watching it kind of
left a bad taste in my mouth. Buying up collectibles and then
immediately turning around and selling them for twice what you paid
hardly seems kosher. It's not like geographic boundaries are an issue
anymore. In this day and age, anybody can check eBay and find out
what toys are currently selling for. I can't imagine that there are
people who have the means to go to toy shows or Comic-Con but don't
have the Internet. If you have entire rooms full of toys, it's your
responsibility to know what this stuff is worth. (Maybe there really
are uninformed sellers who just get stuff at estate sales and don't
care what they get for it, or conversely, sellers who have grown sick
of the hobby and just want to get rid of their collections, but I
didn't get the impression that this was the case from anybody on that
show.)

I also feel bad for all those toys in boxes. I didn't get the sense
that any of these folks had toys that they really loved or collections
that they had proudly put on display. Just boxes and Rubbermaid totes
and more boxes. (Yeah, I have stuff in boxes, too, but only because I
have a finite amount of wall space for shelving. I literally don't
have any place else to display toys unless I mount shelves on the
closet door. And use liberal amounts of poster putty on the bottoms
of the feet of whoever ends up on that shelf.)

Seriously, I want to upload some photos of my collection (on *display*
and *out* of their packages). Toys enjoy it when you touch them and
get your skin oils all over them. (It's a good way to rub off all the
dust. Ahem.)

> I got Universe Darkwing for $2 (which I will try to pair up with my
> Universe Jetfire since I don't have universe Dreadwind)

I really want Dreadwind. Unfortunately I don't want to part with $300
just to own it (and that's just when it's sold by itself and not part
of the $800 "Games of Deception" set).

> I passed on a yellow repaint of animated Ratchet ($2 missing accs),
> and the Crossovers AT-AT ($5). I probably should have went for it.

Nah. Star Wars Transformers are worth nothing. They're literally
going for ninety-nine cents on eBay. (Which means you should have
been able to sell that one for, like, thirty bucks. Sigh.)


Zob

Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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May 23, 2013, 8:33:13 PM5/23/13
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On May 23, 6:41 pm, Zobovor <zm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 10:24 am, "Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People."
>
> <Ob1ken...@att.net> wrote:
> >http://www.travelchannel.com/video/show-me-the-toys-baby
>
> > I couldn't get the video to play, but maybe my internet is just that
> > bad. If you can get it running, please tell me how.
>
> Sounds like you might be having computer problems.  I clicked the link
> and the video played for me right away.

it's been happening to me, I dont know why, I have the newest flash
and firefox, and IE, and Java, and shockwave, and that player doesn't
like any PC in my house. It could (and frequently is) that AT&T sucks.

>
> The episode was interesting (of course it appeals to a hobby that is
> near and dear to my heart).  Very cool that your friends got to be on
> the show.  Not very much in the way of Transformers, though, were
> there?  They kept talking about 80's toys but then they were focusing
> on Partridge Family stuff from the 1970's.  (It also seems like that
> web site was playing clips out of order.  First Danny Bonaduce buys
> stuff, then we see the toy show where Danny asks if they can maybe
> find stuff for him to buy.)  I have to say that watching it kind of
> left a bad taste in my mouth.  Buying up collectibles and then
> immediately turning around and selling them for twice what you paid
> hardly seems kosher.  It's not like geographic boundaries are an issue
> anymore.  In this day and age, anybody can check eBay and find out
> what toys are currently selling for.  I can't imagine that there are
> people who have the means to go to toy shows or Comic-Con but don't
> have the Internet.  If you have entire rooms full of toys, it's your
> responsibility to know what this stuff is worth.  (Maybe there really
> are uninformed sellers who just get stuff at estate sales and don't
> care what they get for it, or conversely, sellers who have grown sick
> of the hobby and just want to get rid of their collections, but I
> didn't get the impression that this was the case from anybody on that
> show.)

about 2/3rds of what I've seen so far is people who either don't want
to go to the effort of listing stuff on ebay, or people who will take
anything just to free up some space. Quite often people don't know
what they have. Unlike other shows (say pawn-stars) if someone asks
for way less than what something is worth, he will come up a bit on
price. Someone asked for $5 for a particular SW item one episode, and
he said no, I'll give you $150, and then at the end said he could sell
it for $300. yes he still undercut, but not by as much as they were
about to undercut themselves.

one of the guys was sitting there telling me how the show host was
like "did you know" blah blah blah and my friend said "yes" and the
producers paused the show and told him just to act surprised.

>
> I also feel bad for all those toys in boxes.  I didn't get the sense
> that any of these folks had toys that they really loved or collections
> that they had proudly put on display.  Just boxes and Rubbermaid totes
> and more boxes.  (Yeah, I have stuff in boxes, too, but only because I
> have a finite amount of wall space for shelving.  I literally don't
> have any place else to display toys unless I mount shelves on the
> closet door.  And use liberal amounts of poster putty on the bottoms
> of the feet of whoever ends up on that shelf.)
>
> Seriously, I want to upload some photos of my collection (on *display*
> and *out* of their packages).  Toys enjoy it when you touch them and
> get your skin oils all over them.  (It's a good way to rub off all the
> dust.  Ahem.)

I'm trying to buy stuff out of package whenever possible. I hate
removing things from packaging, when I do I keep the packaging. I
still cant open half my botcon stuff. I love to play with my toys, but
I also don't want to devalue them, which sounds stupid even to me.


>
> > I got Universe Darkwing for $2 (which I will try to pair up with my
> > Universe Jetfire since I don't have universe Dreadwind)
>
> I really want Dreadwind.  Unfortunately I don't want to part with $300
> just to own it (and that's just when it's sold by itself and not part
> of the $800 "Games of Deception" set).

yeah, I want it too, but still....

>
> > I passed on a yellow repaint of animated Ratchet ($2 missing accs),
> > and the Crossovers AT-AT ($5). I probably should have went for it.
>
> Nah.  Star Wars Transformers are worth nothing.  They're literally
> going for ninety-nine cents on eBay.  (Which means you should have
> been able to sell that one for, like, thirty bucks.  Sigh.)
>
> Zob

I know they were worth nothing, the guy started by telling me he knew
nothing about Starwars and nothing about Transformers and he had a
bunch of broken parts-a-bots and said he got them in a lot, but the AT-
AT was in a separate bag. I told the guy I couldn't confirm it was
complete, so I was trying to get it for $2-3.

Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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May 23, 2013, 9:09:21 PM5/23/13
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On May 23, 6:41 pm, Zobovor <zm...@aol.com> wrote:
> > I got Universe Darkwing for $2 (which I will try to pair up with my
> > Universe Jetfire since I don't have universe Dreadwind)
>
> I really want Dreadwind.  Unfortunately I don't want to part with $300
> just to own it (and that's just when it's sold by itself and not part
> of the $800 "Games of Deception" set).

> Zob

Apparently the combined mode I've found is fan-made, and looks like
crap. they stacked the 2 on top of each other, and I have no idea how
they connected anything to anything else. I got my Jetfire out and
made my own version I think looks better, actually connects, and I can
move it around and make zoom-zoom jet noises.. Jetfire loses use of
his launchers, but it has a very G1 style to it.

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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May 30, 2013, 11:08:44 PM5/30/13
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Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
>http://www.travelchannel.com/video/show-me-the-toys-baby

> about 2/3rds of what I've seen so far is people who either don't want
> to go to the effort of listing stuff on ebay, or people who will take
> anything just to free up some space.

What I don't get is why these lazy people go through the trouble to get bent over by Jordan when they could get equally reamed with less effort by their local comic stores. Or they could sell at one of the ten tryptzillion comic book conventions or swap meets that are going on in every state every weekend nowadays. I can understand not wanting to go the ebay route but how can they be such serious toy collectors and not know what secondary market options are available to them? The only people I'd give a pass are anyone living in remote places like Alaska, Hawaii, or South Dakota. Everyone else really needs to utilize their local ripoff artists who will eventually put it all up on ebay like normal scalpers.

I think some people might be there just to say they got on television. At the end of the show Jordan asks viewers with unique items to get in touch, so maybe some of those people are there to show off their collections and not necessarily to sell off their things.

> one of the guys was sitting there telling me how the show host was
> like "did you know" blah blah blah and my friend said "yes" and the
> producers paused the show and told him just to act surprised.

This is the most mind numbingly dumb part of the show for me. Of course these people know about the toys they own-that's why they own them! If Jordan wants to educate the audience, then record him having an honest conversation about why the person own the toy. The same points will be brought up and the person's enthusiasm for their hobby will come through. At times he totally overdoes it and just straight up reads the box to the camera. That's when I start yelling at the television.

> I'm trying to buy stuff out of package whenever possible. I hate
> removing things from packaging, when I do I keep the packaging. I
> still cant open half my botcon stuff. I love to play with my toys, but
> I also don't want to devalue them, which sounds stupid even to me

I don't think it sounds stupid. I also don't think Botcon toys are intended to be played with as much as they are to be collected.

Zobovor

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May 30, 2013, 11:17:35 PM5/30/13
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On May 30, 9:08 pm, "Steve L.K. Macrocranios"
<Evil.King.Macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I also don't think Botcon toys are intended to be played with as much as they are to be collected.

Yeah. If you want to play with it, go get the same mold that was
available at retail for ten bucks.


Zob

Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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May 30, 2013, 11:29:21 PM5/30/13
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I got my old dreadwing out, and while he's smaller, and brickier, he's
got more gimmicks (not including sound) and I still find it more fun
than the unintended classics gestalt I made from the universe toys. I
wish that the Universe wasn't designed to be repainted 3-5 times but
were more designed to be combined.

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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May 30, 2013, 11:38:31 PM5/30/13
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Zob wrote:

> Not very much in the way of Transformers, though, were
> there?

Toy Hunter only has barely enough Transformers to keep me watching. But I can appreciate the wide variety of non-robot toys shown and discussed so I keep watching. It's funny because the show airs here at the same time Radio Free Cybertron records live, and I keep opting to watch Toy Hunter although RFC is about 1000% more relevant to my interests. I guess I like watching people get ripped off.

I get the feeling that Jordan feels the most comfortable focusing on what he knows best, which is more traditional action figures like Star Wars, Masters of the Universe, and TMNT. That may account for the low robot content. I've always felt that robots are a niche unto themselves and don't really fit into the traditional idea or standard definition of action figure. Robots have their own type of fan and I think Jordan falls just outside of that. Maybe that's why we only see Transformers rarely. The only TF content he's had that sticks in my mind was the prototype G2 Slag we talked about here, a Lucky Draw Rodimus Convoy that showed up once, and that Bumblejumper he took to Pete Sinclair because he didn't know what it was. There's the even less occasional Shogun Warrior or Micronaut and just forget about him ever devoting any time to Starriors, GoBots, Robo Force or Voltron. The most you'll ever see of those is him opening a box of them in someone's attic and then setting those aside to talk about the five Love Boat action figures in the corner.

The other day I swore he was rummaging through one collection and he pulled from a crate a loose G2 ATB Megatron, flipped it over to look at the underside, then didn't even talk about it before the show cut to him wanting to buy some Thundercats in crappy packages. I tried to take pictures of the screen with the ATB Megatron but the whole scene went by so fast they all came out blurry.

> I also feel bad for all those toys in boxes.

I feel terrible about my Shockwave that's still in the box but the rubber hose is melting all the styrofoam it touches and turning it rust brown. So much for keeping stuff in well preserved packaging.

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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Jun 4, 2013, 11:20:58 AM6/4/13
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On Thursday, May 30, 2013 Steve L.K. Macrocranios wrote:
> The other day I swore he was rummaging through one collection and he pulled from a crate
> a loose G2 ATB Megatron, flipped it over to look at the underside, then didn't even talk about
> it before the show cut to him wanting to buy some Thundercats in crappy packages. I tried to
> take pictures of the screen with the ATB Megatron but the whole scene went by so fast they all
> came out blurry.

Here are the best of the crappy pictures I took:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/crazystevefigure/IMG_2254_zpsbe559aeb.jpg.html

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/crazystevefigure/IMG_2251_zpsac19c681.jpg.html

The episode is called "Finding Bigfoot" for anyone with On Demand or DVRs that want to check it out. My pics are blurry because the whole scene lasts maybe two seconds and Jordan just flips the toy over super fast, looks at the underside, and moves on. I think it's an ATB Megatron because the G2 Decepticon logo is on the wings, which is something the Starscream / BB set didn't have. You can kind of see it as the big yellow blurr near the wingtip in one of the pictures.

What's odd to me is that the owner of the warehouse described all the contents of the area he let Jordan look through as his stock of production items. If you believe that, it would imply that this G2 ATB Megatron was a production model. Was it possibly released at retail in the vicinity of the warehouse, which is in Pennsylvania? Who knows.

Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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Jun 4, 2013, 3:04:24 PM6/4/13
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On Jun 4, 10:20 am, "Steve L.K. Macrocranios"
<Evil.King.Macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, May 30, 2013 Steve L.K. Macrocranios wrote:
>
> > The other day I swore he was rummaging through one collection and he pulled from a crate
> > a loose G2 ATB Megatron, flipped it over to look at the underside, then didn't even talk about
> > it before the show cut to him wanting to buy some Thundercats in crappy packages. I tried to
> > take pictures of the screen with the ATB Megatron but the whole scene went by so fast they all
> > came out blurry.
>
> Here are the best of the crappy pictures I took:
>
> http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/crazystevefigure/IMG_2254_zpsb...
>
> http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/crazystevefigure/IMG_2251_zpsa...
>
> The episode is called "Finding Bigfoot" for anyone with On Demand or DVRs that want to check it out. My pics are blurry because the whole scene lasts maybe two seconds and Jordan just flips the toy over super fast, looks at the underside, and moves on. I think it's an ATB Megatron because the G2 Decepticon logo is on the wings, which is something the Starscream / BB set didn't have. You can kind of see it as the big yellow blurr near the wingtip in one of the pictures.
>
> What's odd to me is that the owner of the warehouse described all the contents of the area he let Jordan look through as his stock of production items. If you believe that, it would imply that this G2 ATB Megatron was a production model. Was it possibly released at retail in the vicinity of the warehouse, which is in Pennsylvania?  Who knows.

The links give me 404 errors from photobucket

As for the ATB, I know as a kid I had a G2 ATB before Starscream/BB
set, because I was amazed the first time I saw bw2 used the same mold
from my G2 that I got at KB toys in the mall.

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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Jun 4, 2013, 3:51:27 PM6/4/13
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:04:24 PM UTC-4, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/crazystevefigure/IMG_2254_zpsbe559aeb.jpg.html
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/crazystevefigure/IMG_2251_zpsac19c681.jpg.html
>
> The links give me 404 errors from photobucket

Yeah I probably should have used tiny url.

> As for the ATB, I know as a kid I had a G2 ATB before Starscream/BB
> set, because I was amazed the first time I saw bw2 used the same mold
> from my G2 that I got at KB toys in the mall.

But did you have that blue and teal Dreadwing or the black and purple Megatron? I was working at Target at the tail end of G2 and I remember Dreadwing going on clearance, but I never saw a Megatron. Whether or not Megatron ever was released at retail has been disputed but I've never found even circumstantial evidence that the G2 Megatron ATB was sold in conventional retail stores.

Zobovor

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Jun 4, 2013, 8:01:22 PM6/4/13
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On Jun 4, 1:51 pm, "Steve L.K. Macrocranios"
<Evil.King.Macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Whether or not Megatron ever was released at retail has been disputed but I've never found
> even circumstantial evidence that the G2 Megatron ATB was sold in conventional retail stores.

Robowang used to swear up and down that he saw one at retail at KB
Toys in 1995. I've read that there were somewhere around 24 of them
produced, and between 10-15 made their way into the hands of
collectors depending on who you ask. Even if each KB Toys only got a
shipment of a single case of two toys, and even if one of the toys in
the case was a Dreadwing reship (which seems unlikely to me), that's
still an extraordinary small number of stores actually receiving it.
(Robowang sincerely, genuinely believed that he saw the toy in the
store. Not to denigrate him, but people also swore up and down that
they saw blue Bluestreak. So, I dunno.)

We know that Hasbro wanted to sell them in stores, and this is why
they produced the toy and printed packaging for them. There were
solicitations for the "Team Leaders II" assortment (G2 Motormaster and
Hot Spot) to Toys "R" Us at one point. I wonder if, after the
decision was made not to sell the toys, some were shipped accidentally
anyway? I admit that it seems unlikely. I would love to know how the
collectors who do own ATB Megatron came by them. Did they all make it
to the public from former Hasbro employees?


Zob

Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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Jun 5, 2013, 1:22:59 AM6/5/13
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I remember seeing both on the shelf (the ATBs) at KBtoys at my local
mall.

Gustavo Wombat

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Jun 5, 2013, 4:35:44 AM6/5/13
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I remember lots of things that never happened... Really. Somewhere around
age 35, I switched from my first name to my middle name, but now, any time
I tell a story of my childhood, or college, or my twenties, if my name
comes up in the story it is always the middle name. And I stop, because I
know that it cannot possibly be correct -- and yet, that's the memory I now
have.

Either there were a lot more ATB Megatrons released than is plausible based
on the number found, or a lot of people are remembering things differently
than they happened.

Blaster Master

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Jun 6, 2013, 8:13:42 AM6/6/13
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On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 17:01:22 -0700 (PDT), Zobovor <zm...@aol.com>
> I would love to know how the collectors who do own ATB Megatron
> came by them. Did they all make it to the public from former
Hasbro
> employees?

I got mine at Botcon.

--
Blaster Master
a.k.a.
Brad S. Russell

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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Jun 6, 2013, 11:02:08 AM6/6/13
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2013, Zobovor wrote:
> ( Not to denigrate him, but people also swore up and down that
> they saw blue Bluestreak. So, I dunno.)

But that is denigrating and dismissive. I think we all need to let the whole false blue Bluestreak sightings thing go. It undermines discussion about current sightings that challenge notions of what has or hasn't been released in modern times. It's irrelevant. Disregarding anomalous modern day sightings because someone else thought they saw a blue Bluestreak 30 years ago is a lazy way to dismiss someone's unrelated present day experiences. I hate how "well I know a guy who says he saw a blue Bluestreak" has become the de facto dismissal tactic whenever someone reports something that goes against the conventional wisdom.

If we have at least two knowledgeable fans who know what they're talking about and have a history of collecting the line and they say they saw an ATB Megatron at retail, then that's good enough for me. I will not categorically deny the possibility that it was indeed released. I wasn't there so I can't call them liars.

And again, where is the official record of what got released at any time? Where is the research into Hasbro shipping manifestos and case assortment records that is absolute proof that a given toy was or wasn't sent to retail stores? This fandom is too quick to accept majority speculation and too slow to do the work necessary to find concrete answers.

Zobovor

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Jun 6, 2013, 2:13:00 PM6/6/13
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On Jun 6, 9:02 am, "Steve L.K. Macrocranios"
<Evil.King.Macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hate how "well I know a guy who says he saw a blue Bluestreak" has become the de
> facto dismissal tactic whenever someone reports something that goes against the
> conventional wisdom.

Wow, you sure put me in my place.

I didn't realize I was trotting out some tired old overused
response. All I was trying to illustrate is that human memory is not
one hundred percent reliable. For the record, I believe Robowang, but
I think it's important to maintain objectivity and be able to see both
sides of the issue.

Even I have memories that I know cannot be fully trusted. When Hasbro
brought back the Star Wars toy line in 1995 I thought it was so cool
that they all finally came with weapons for the first time. I had
collected the original line when I was much younger, but of course as
we all know, none of them came with accessories except for the guys
with lightsabers that slid up into their arms. Well, imagine my
surprise after the advent of the Internet when I discovered that the
old toys all came with guns and stuff. I had maybe 20-25 of the
vintage toys, so why don't I remember any of them coming with
weapons? Did I just lose them all or not bother to take them out of
the package? Usually, my memory is infallible when it comes to stuff
like this. I can tell you all about the day I got the first two Star
Wars toys I ever owned (Darth Vader and C-3PO), how I played with them
on the car ride home, and how the pairing felt strange because they
couldn't really fight each other. This specific gap in my memory has
always bothered me. I would find web sites with vintage reproduction
weapons and get upset that it seemed so disingenuous to provide older
toys with rifles and pistols that never used to have them before. It
took me a long time to adjust my perceptions despite the evidence all
around me.

> This fandom is too quick to accept majority speculation and too slow to do the work necessary to find concrete answers.

Speaking of denigrating and dismissive. I don't feel that I've ever
just accepted what everyone else tells me. If you're calling me lazy
because I've somehow failed to produce Hasbro shipping invoices from
1995, then I guess somebody else who has access to that sort of
information will have to step forward.


Zob

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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Jun 6, 2013, 3:23:07 PM6/6/13
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On Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:13:00 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:

> Wow, you sure put me in my place.
> I didn't realize I was trotting out some tired old overused
> response.

I like to think I was attacking the idea and not the person. It is possible that I am the only one that feels this way about how the fandom treats blue Bluestreak rememberers. Since I never brought it up before, you couldn't have realized that my viewpoint existed or that I felt that response was tired and overused.

(I want to clarify that I am not a blue Bluestreak rememberer, nor do I consider everyone else part of some grand conspiracy of blue Bluestreak deniers. I do feel that certain key pieces of evidence are missing on both sides of the argument that would settle it conclusively.)

> All I was trying to illustrate is that human memory is not
> one hundred percent reliable. For the record, I believe Robowang, but
> I think it's important to maintain objectivity and be able to see both
> sides of the issue.

I think it's one thing to question the memory of children (which most of us were in '84 during the Bluestreak flap) and an entirely different thing to question the memories of collectors ten years later when ATB Megatron would have come out. Children's memories aren't infallible of course so the skepticism is understandable when people remember something that happened before they were even ten years old. But with ATB Megatron we're talking about teenagers or people in their early 20s at the time who report having seen these things. And they're not just any people, but actual fans with a collector's eye for these kinds of details. I definitely give a young adult's recollections more weight, and that's what we were in the mid nineties. We were young adults with collector oriented perceptions. Of course I will eat my words if Irrelius Spamticon of the Potato People or Robowang were only nine years old in 1995, but that's not the impression I had.

> Even I have memories that I know cannot be fully trusted. When Hasbro
> brought back the Star Wars toy line in 1995 I thought it was so cool
> that they all finally came with weapons for the first time.

But within the scenario you described, you were entirely correct, at least initially. If all a kid had was Darth Vader, most of the droids, and any other figure that didn't have separate weapons, then in that situation it is entirely understandable for them to grow up thinking no Star Wars figures came with weapons. There is at least that one possible combination of collecting experience that makes the observation valid. If all a kid had was Darth Vader, droids and Jedis then I can see where they'd make the jump and assume Star Wars was this weaponless line of robot people. That's easily disproven, though.

With Bluestreak it's not like the blue Bluestreak rememberers are saying all Bluestreaks were blue, they're talking about just one they saw once. That one occurrence is a lot more difficult to disprove. How are we so sure that it's not possible that in at least one case this actually happened? How can we be so sure? How do we know there weren't early running changes or foreign color variants that as of yet have not surfaced? As long as we don't know for sure then I personally will not discount these eyewitness reports, even if they are from people who were children at the time. And I won't be so quick to dismiss blue Bluestreak rememberers.

> > This fandom is too quick to accept majority speculation and too slow to do the work necessary to
> > find concrete answers.
>
> Speaking of denigrating and dismissive. I don't feel that I've ever
> just accepted what everyone else tells me.

I think you're taking it too personally but that's your prerogative. There are multiple other issues and instances in this fandom where groupthink is contrary to the evidence or testimony of individuals. That's why I used the term fandom.

> If you're calling me lazy
> because I've somehow failed to produce Hasbro shipping invoices from
> 1995, then I guess somebody else who has access to that sort of
> information will have to step forward.

Yes, honestly that's what it's going to take to settle the matter one way or the other. I just don't know if that evidence still exists or will ever be made public. Official Hasbro internal paperwork collectors tend to be hoarders in this fandom.

Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.

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Jun 6, 2013, 4:46:38 PM6/6/13
to
On Jun 6, 2:23 pm, "Steve L.K. Macrocranios"
<Evil.King.Macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:13:00 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> > Wow, you sure put me in my place.
> >  I didn't realize I was trotting out some tired old overused
> > response.
>
> I like to think I was attacking the idea and not the person. It is possible that I am the only one that feels this way about how the fandom treats blue Bluestreak rememberers. Since I never brought it up before, you couldn't have realized that my viewpoint existed or that I felt that response was tired and overused.
>
> (I want to clarify that I am not a blue Bluestreak rememberer, nor do I consider everyone else part of some grand conspiracy of blue Bluestreak deniers. I do feel that certain key pieces of evidence are missing on both sides of the argument that would settle it conclusively.)
>
> > All I was trying to illustrate is that human memory is not
> > one hundred percent reliable.  For the record, I believe Robowang, but
> > I think it's important to maintain objectivity and be able to see both
> > sides of the issue.
>
>  I think it's one thing to question the memory of children (which most of us were in '84 during the Bluestreak flap) and an entirely different thing to question the memories of collectors ten years later >when ATB Megatron would have come out. Children's memories aren't infallible of course so the skepticism is understandable when people remember something that happened before they were >even ten years old. But with ATB Megatron we're talking about teenagers or people in their early 20s at the time who report having seen these things. And they're not just any people, but actual >fans with a collector's eye for these kinds of details. I definitely give a young adult's recollections more weight, and that's what we were in the mid nineties. We were young adults with collector >oriented perceptions. Of course I will eat my words if Irrelius Spamticon of the Potato People or Robowang were only nine years old in 1995, but that's not the impression I had.

At the time I was 14, I rode my bike 4 miles with 2 of my friends, Jay
and Brian, to go to the mall after school, around 3~4pm. We were in
the KB store at the east end of the mall, right by the top of the
escalators, and there were 2 different ATBs, same box, different color
insides. I made my choice for Dreadwing because at the time I already
had a G2 Megatron (green tank) and I wanted a new character, a minion
for Megatron to command. I didn't know one would be an unprovable
rarity on the collectors community. I put it on the bike rack on the
back of my bike, tied down with bungees that damaged the box, because
the other option was to hang the bag from my bike handles and it get
damaged on the ride home, but possibly damage the contents too. At the
time I wasn't so into keeping packaging as I am now, but I wish I was.

The sheer number of different pictures from different angles found
from a simple google search indicates to me that there were more than
1 boxed ATB Megatron out there, and there have been too many sold over
the years to all be from 1 secret source that has access to
"unreleased" items.

> > If you're calling me lazy
> > because I've somehow failed to produce Hasbro shipping invoices from
> > 1995, then I guess somebody else who has access to that sort of
> > information will have to step forward.
>
> Yes, honestly that's what it's going to take to settle the matter one way or the other. I just don't know if that evidence still exists or will ever be made public. Official Hasbro internal paperwork collectors tend to be hoarders in this fandom.

I wouldn't trust Hasbro paperwork anyway. That assumes they all do
everything they do intentionally.

G.B. Blackrock

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Jun 6, 2013, 7:02:17 PM6/6/13
to
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:38:31 PM UTC-7, Steve L.K. Macrocranios wrote:
> Zob wrote:
>
>
>
> > Not very much in the way of Transformers, though, were
>
> > there?
>
>
>
> Toy Hunter only has barely enough Transformers to keep me watching. But I can appreciate the wide variety of non-robot toys shown and discussed so I keep watching. It's funny because the show airs here at the same time Radio Free Cybertron records live, and I keep opting to watch Toy Hunter although RFC is about 1000% more relevant to my interests. I guess I like watching people get ripped off.

To be fair, RFC *is* a podcast. You can watch/listen to it at any time after that, and although they do make it a point to encourage folks to catch them live while they record, I find it's not generally worth the effort, especially considering that none of the pre-recorded segments are played at that time.

(Granted, being on the West Coast, a huge factor is that it's VERY difficult for me that get home in time to catch them. I've decided it's better to actually take the time to eat first, which knocks me right out of contention for watching live)

My two cents,
G.B. Blackrock

Steve L.K. Macrocranios

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Jun 14, 2013, 10:15:41 PM6/14/13
to
G.B. Blackrock wrote:
> To be fair, RFC *is* a podcast. You can watch/listen to it at any time after that,
>and although they do make it a point to encourage folks to catch them live while
>they record, I find it's not generally worth the effort, especially considering that
>none of the pre-recorded segments are played at that time.

It's a tough decision for me because actually I prefer the shorter version of RFC without all the added extras. I'm really just a big fan of Brian and getting to hear him talk about the news unedited is comedy gold for me. Plus there's such a huge delay between recording and posting that much of the news they talk about is a little stale by the time the MP3 and YouTube versions get posted. I guess I prefer live for the timeliness of the news, some of which gets announced shortly before they go on the air but ends up being almost a week old by the time the episode is up through formal channels.

If I miss it live I watch it on YouTube and skip through all the non-Kilby parts except for Rob Springer. So the shorter, rawer version of RFC is always worth it for me, but Toy Hunter has been a huge distraction as of late. I also get Toy Hunter on demand so I really can watch it anytime but it's just so much more fun to catch it live and read what people are saying about it on message boards within minutes after the show airs. First world problems I guess.

banzait...@gmail.com

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Jun 14, 2013, 10:48:59 PM6/14/13
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For the record, my brother ( who is also a trans worshipper) claims a blue squared sighting back in 86. I will never forget him coming back from a babysitting job to tell me about it. I never completely believed him, but never completely dismissed him either. If I had to bet my 401k, I'd say he was mistaken.

-Banzaitron
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