People Build Weird Collections Sometimes

[Zobovor]

I read the r/ActionFigures forum over on Reddit, and occasionally I'll look at r/TMNT and r/StarWars and r/Transformers. The action figures subreddit is almost exclusively photos of people's collections and new acquisitions.

Now, before I start making fun of people, let me explain briefly where I'm coming from. You guys know me. I totally understand toy collecting. I would think that the most common approach would go something like this: Introduced to new media (comic books or cartoons or movies or whatnot), become a fan of said media, and then develop a desire to own three-dimensional likenesses of the character(s) from that media. Obviously it doesn't always go that way (I'm sure there are people collecting Funko Pop figures who haven't watched every single movie or TV show the characters originated from) but I would think it happens more often than not.

I'm not here to judge, but whatever collecting rules you make for yourself should at least make some kind of sense to you. Buy LEGO sets from Star Wars and Harry Potter, but not LEGO City or LEGO Friends. Collect G.I. Joe action figures, but not vehicles. Buy only the Transformers characters who were voiced by Frank Welker. Seriously, whatever floats your boat.

With that said, some people's collections are just plain weird.

Like, for example, I don't get what's up with people having like 30 Optimus Prime toys on one shelf. We all have our favorite characters, of course, but those are iterations of the characters from different continuities. They don't exist together. At that point, you're not celebrating a fictional universe. It's just a bunch of samey red-and-blue robots all crammed together. I probably have at least 30 Optimus Primes, but they're all in different boxes, mingling with toys from the same toy line.

Another guy said he had only been collecting since the beginning of 2021, and his display shelf looked like whatever Target's toy department had in stock last Tuesday. Random assorted Marvel and DC Comics characters, some Star Wars, and like one Transformer. No rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. Is there a goal here? What's the end game?

Then there's the conspicuous consumption. I mean, I totally appreciate a good armybuilder. Three Sharkticons are inherently more fun than just one. Sweeps? Multiples, for sure. And it's hard for Shredder to conquer N̶e̶w̶ ̶Y̶o̶r̶k The City with just one Foot Soldier. But when somebody buys five Earthrise Scorponok toys, they're just showing off. There's objectively no reason to OWN five of them. He's not an armybuilder character.

I saw an adult collector showing off every single Bluey figure he owned. I'm so confused by this.

Folks who collect toys in the boxes and put the boxes on display. This rubs me the wrong way. It just ends up looking like a retail store, not a toy collection. Especially when they have so many that they have to stack the boxes sideways, so all you can see is the side panel. I mean, I could sneak into their house and steal the toys out of them*, and they probably wouldn't notice for months.

*I almost never do this.

I have a theory about collecting in general. I think that, as humans, we're all hard-wired to gather things. In some kind of pre-societal wilderness survival situation, it makes total sense. Collecting useful rocks and tools, or gathering viable seeds and berries, that could have meant the difference between life and death. Now, with a McDonald's on every street corner, we arguably don't need to collect things to survive. But the instinct, the drive, is still there, so now we collect postage stamps and toy cars and plastic action figures. Honestly, it's just a step away from hoarding.

But, in the interest of being fair, my collection is kind of weird, too.

I've been buying Masters of the Universe Origins toys, but only the characters I remember from when I was growing up. I pretty much bailed out after 1985, so as far as I'm concerned, characters like Rio Blast or Mosquitor don't exist. Just give me Ram-Man and Trap-Jaw and Roboto, please. (I'm on the fence about Jitsu, because evidently he was released in 1984, but I have no memory of him whatsoever.) This represent a shift for me, because I used to only buy Orko.

Regarding G.I. Joe, I pretty much only buy Cobra Commander, and that's it. Any other characters I've ended up with are usually an accident.

I'll buy Star Wars toys from the original trilogy or prequel trilogy, with a strong focus on C-3PO and R2-D2 merchandise, but none of that newer Disney nonsense.

Once in a blue moon I'll step outside my comfort zone and buy something unusual if it really strikes my fancy. Like, a Monster High doll that's a steampunk robot, or a Ken doll dressed like the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz, or something like that.

So, yeah, I'm just as weird as anybody else.


Zob (come to think of it, I'm not sure where that Ken doll even is at this point)

[Gustavo Wombat]

Zobovor <zm...@aol.com> wrote:
> I read the r/ActionFigures forum over on Reddit, and occasionally I'll
> look at r/TMNT and r/StarWars and r/Transformers. The action figures
> subreddit is almost exclusively photos of people's collections and new acquisitions.
>

>

> I'm not here to judge, but whatever collecting rules you make for
> yourself should at least make some kind of sense to you. Buy LEGO sets
> from Star Wars and Harry Potter, but not LEGO City or LEGO Friends.
> Collect G.I. Joe action figures, but not vehicles. Buy only the
> Transformers characters who were voiced by Frank Welker. Seriously,
> whatever floats your boat.

Ooh, characters from many franchises voiced by Frank Welker…

> With that said, some people's collections are just plain weird.
>
> Like, for example, I don't get what's up with people having like 30
> Optimus Prime toys on one shelf. We all have our favorite characters, of
> course, but those are iterations of the characters from different
> continuities. They don't exist together. At that point, you're not
> celebrating a fictional universe. It's just a bunch of samey
> red-and-blue robots all crammed together. I probably have at least 30
> Optimus Primes, but they're all in different boxes, mingling with toys
> from the same toy line.

Having them together shows all the different things that Hasbro/Takara has
done with Optimus over the years. Sounds kind of cool to me.

But… I have Cybertron Leobreaker, Nemesis Breaker, Red Leo Convoy, White
Leo Convoy and Botcon Rampage, all the same mold, just different decos. And
I desperately with someone had the dumb idea to do this mold in
Constructicon colors (green body, purple mane, gray trim) because it would
have been just staggeringly stupid/beautiful.

> Then there's the conspicuous consumption. I mean, I totally appreciate a
> good armybuilder. Three Sharkticons are inherently more fun than just
> one. Sweeps? Multiples, for sure. And it's hard for Shredder to
> conquer N̶e̶w̶ ̶Y̶o̶r̶k The City with just one Foot Soldier. But when
> somebody buys five Earthrise Scorponok toys, they're just showing off.
> There's objectively no reason to OWN five of them. He's not an armybuilder character.

Have I mentioned my army of Blots? Or Sinnertwins? Or Movie Legends Ravage
kittens? Something clicks, and you quietly rewrite your own cannon to make
them army builders.

- The Quintessons who built the Terrorcons always build in masse, even if
we only see one.
- Hun-Grr and Weirdwolf have a family.
- Obviously legends scale figures are babies of the deluxes
- I don’t know what deluxe BM Optimus Primal was marketed as, but that
freakish translucent blue ape monstrosity just lives in packs under the
surface of Cybertron, some forgotten Quintesson experiment.

If Cog can be a troop builder in WFC, than basically anyone can be a troop
builder.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

Also, I might be done with collecting Nemesis Primes.

First, the Siege mold is excellent, to the point where I don't think they are going to improve on it. It hits the archetype of Optimus with a few minor changes that we might expect from some time apart and independent upgrades and adoption of alt-modes. This is the definitive version. I don't see where they can go from there, unless they were to do the Cybertron Optimus Prime in Nemesis colors or something like that.

Second, the WFC cartoon kind of shit all over the character concept by making it just a Unicron upgraded Optimus. It even cheapens Galvatron. (Plus, in order to properly corrupt Megatron, Unicron had to completely rebuild him, but if he just paints Optimus black, Optimus turns to evil... sort of like BW Quickstrike just shrugging and accepting that a transformation code of "Terrorize" meant he was a Predacon...)

Sure, there had been hints of this among the many different toy bios in the past -- the Mammoth one in particular was an alternate universe Optimus tortured and broken and then brought into this universe -- but there were just as many that completely conflict, where he was a clone (Alternators, MB-10). I preferred that and have a half-written fanfic that expands on it, of which I will share the beginning...

--------

Bumblebee pulled into the command center of the Autobot base, waited for Spike, Sparkplug and Carly to step out, and then transformed. Carly was dressed in a simple, conservative blue dress, and both Spike and Sparkplug were dressed in blue suits, with white shirts and red ties, and were carrying yellow hard hats.

"How did it go?" Optimus asked.

"Not well," Bumblebee said.

"I wouldn't say that," Sparkplug said. "Justice was served, if nothing else."

"Oh, shucks, dad, I was really pulling for Spanner," Spike said.

"We all were, Spike," Sparkplug said, "but there really is no denying the fact that Spanner is guilty. And all things considered, I think the sentence was lenient."

"Was he banished from Earth?" Optimus asked, the concern showing in his voice.

"No, he will be in prison for sixty days and parole for another three years," Sparkplug explained, "but he gets to stay on the planet."

"That must be a relief," Optimus said. The Autobot commander used the passive voice, to hide his own relief. It was the burden of leadership, always having to hide your feelings and project confidence. "I'm sorry, Sparkplug," Optimus continued, questioning his stoicism, "human justice can be harsh."

"Spanner needs help, not prison," Carly said. "Stealing from Gamblers Anonymous to pay off his gambling debts is just kind of sad."

"I hate to say it, Carly, and I love him with all my heart, but Spanner has always been a bad seed," Sparkplug began, shaking his head a little sadly. "He would steal anything, just for the excitement. He raced cars. He got into fights. He's just bad news. He'll never change."

"Well, I don't believe that," Carly declared. "People aren't good or evil, they just do good or evil things."

"I don't think Spanner is all bad," Spike said. "He just needs another chance. He tried to pay back Gamblers Anonymous, it just didn't work out because he ... um ... lost it all playing roulette and then stole more."

"Oh, I'll give him another chance," Sparkplug said. "I'll give him a hundred more chances, and I'll always hope it turns out well for once. But he deserves this. He earned everything he got, theft, grift, fraud... He got what he deserves, but he's my brother and I cannot help but feel responsible."

"I understand," Optimus said, "more than you might know."

"Do you have a brother, Optimus?" Spike asked.

"Yes and no," the Autobot leader said, enigmatically.

"Oh, like Buster..." Spike began, before his father glared at him.

"No, Spike," Optimus said, laughing uncomfortably, "nothing quite like that. But once, long ago, Megatron cloned me..."

* * * * * * * * *

"Why don't you just kill him?" Starscream asked, pointing towards the immobile body of Optimus Prime laying on the table, surrounded by Constructicons.

"No, Starscream, you think too small," Megatron said with a dismissive glance towards his subordinate. "Optimus Prime inspires the Autobots with hope, and dead he would inspire them as a martyr to their cause. No, we must do more than just kill him, we must destroy the myth of Optimus Prime."

"Do your worst, Megatron," Optimus said.

"Oh, no, Optimus," Megatron replied with a chuckle. "I won't do my worst... you will do yours. The Constructicons are copying the engrams from your laser core, and then we will overlay them onto the core of a Decepticon --ahem-- volunteer, install that core into a duplicate body, and release him to wreak havoc upon the Autobots."

"And then will you kill him?" Starscream asked.

Megatron ignored Starscream and continued speaking to Optimus. "I want you to watch your Autobots falter and fall under your clone's leadership. I want you to see them destroyed."

"You really should just kill him," Starscream repeated. "Don't leave him around to watch, just kill him to make sure he doesn't escape if something goes wrong."

"Starscream," Megatron said, turning towards the insistent Seeker, "what could possibly go wrong?"

* * * * * * * * * * *

"I bet he didn't count on your clone getting your inherent goodness!" Spike said, interrupting the flashback.

"Or that the Autobots would see right through him," Sparkplug guessed.

"Or you escaping!" Spike guessed.

"No, nothing like that," Optimus replied. "My clone was as cruel as any Decepticon, cunning, and willing to sacrifice those he should have been protecting. He made hard choices harshly and quickly. He led the Autobots to victory after victory, and in the end, Megatron released me to disrupt the Autobots led by my clone. He figured that the confusion of having two Optimus Primes would leave him an opening, and it did."

"How did the Autobots figure out which was the real Optimus Prime?" Spike asked.

"With a race," Optimus said. "My clone was an imperfect copy, so his fine motor control was not as sharp as my own. So, we held a race, and he could not control his vehicle mode as well as I could. We followed it with a sharpshooting competition. It's something Megatron was prepared for when he sent out that remote controlled dummy of me a few years ago. That and my systems were still scrambled by the Korlonium crystals."

"So, what happened to your clone?"

"After the sharpshooting competition, before we could figure out what to do, Megatron attacked. My clone was lost in the battle."

"I'm... sorry," Sparkplug said. "I lost a brother to cancer, when Spike was very young."

"Yes, well I hope you find your brother, much as I hope to find my clone. I heard rumors that he survived, and was living in the lower depths of Cybertron, but I was never able to find conclusive evidence. Even though I would hear that he was responsible for terrible things, and it was always a weight upon my laser core, it was also comforting to think that he might still be online..."

Optimus's voice trailed off, and there was a moment of awkward silence.

Finally, Sparkplug spoke. "I felt the same way when I got the call from the police about Spanner. I hadn't heard from him in years, and I was relieved that he was still alright, even if he was up to no good.

"Family is complicated," Sparkplug continued, putting his arm around Spike's shoulder. "You love them even when they make you ashamed."

[Codigo Postal]

Spanner has always been a bad seed," Sparkplug began, shaking his head a little sadly. “He pays for stolen toys from Vietnamese factories which he reviews on YouTube for internet clout. He buys Leader class toys from Walmart and returns them for a full refund with knock off trash inside. And worst of all, he pilfers whole pallets of exclusives and scalps them on eBay. He deserves the worst the justice system can mete out.”

“You don’t mean...” Spike gasped dramatically.

“I do,” Sparkplug replied grimly. “He’s required to watch Netflix’s War for Cybertron series on repeat.”

“Well, that’s not so bad,” Spike sighed in relief.

Sparkplug shook his head. “You haven’t heard the worst part..he has to watch it...at normal playback speed.”

END.

[Codigo Postal]

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 1:32:25 AM UTC, Zobovor wrote:

As a famed proponent of robot-human relations once said, “different strokes for different blokes.”

[Joseph Bardsley]

Now I am curious who this famed proponent was. It's not ringing a bell for me. Were they part of this community at one point?

JB

[Zobovor]

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 8:06:29 PM UTC-7, Joseph Bardsley wrote:

> Now I am curious who this famed proponent was. It's not ringing a bell for me. Were they part of this community at one point?

You're thinking about it too hard. It was just a Seaspray quote from "Dinobot Island" part 2.


Zob (makes throaty Allan Oppenheimer sounds)

[Evil King Macrocranios]

On Tuesday, December 14, 2021 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:

> Like, for example, I don't get what's up with people having like 30 Optimus Prime toys on one shelf. We all have our favorite characters, of course, but those are iterations of the
> characters from different continuities. They don't exist together. At that point, you're not celebrating a fictional universe. It's just a bunch of samey red-and-blue robots all crammed
> together. I probably have at least 30 Optimus Primes, but they're all in different boxes, mingling with toys from the same toy line.

Vintage Star Wars collectors do a variation on this called focus collecting and it's neat the way they do it. But they do it for a single figure-not character, but figure. So instead of Darth Vaders they build large collections of things related to just the first Darth Vader or just the first C-3PO or whatever figure they love. Vintage Star Wars collectors are fortunate since Kenner was stateside so they have enough leftover production resources circulating on the secondary market covering every stage of production of many figures from prototype forwards. That's because of brave dumpster diving fans who were forward thinking enough to save early Star Wars items from being trashed by Kenner. I am so jealous of them for that. Even if the focus is a single obscure character like the B-Wing pilot, Star Wars collectors can get prototypes, unreleased cardbacks, package variations, proof cards, all sorts of stuff and it's all from the same figure. Then they put it all together and it's a shrine to one insanely focused subject. But focus collecting like that has no direct Transformers parallel because all the TF prototyping was done over in Japan. And either Takara never threw anything away or the Japanese don't like dumpster diving. I kinda wish they did because that type of collecting is impressive to see. I don't think I've ever seen even one G1 proof card on ebay (or if I have it was one in a million).

> Another guy said he had only been collecting since the beginning of 2021, and his display shelf looked like whatever Target's toy department had in stock last Tuesday. Random
> assorted Marvel and DC Comics characters, some Star Wars, and like one Transformer.

It really captures the overall feel of the era. This will be impressive in 30 years if he keeps at it. I enjoy pics of people's attics that look like the Target toy aisle from 1985.

> No rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. Is there a goal here? What's the end game?

Collectors are just pawns of a larger overall conspiracy masterminded by the plastic storage tote industry. I of course have what I consider a very rational and valid reason for collecting with a well defined goal. Everyone else is just collecting for the sake of collecting and they all seem quite mad to me.

> Folks who collect toys in the boxes and put the boxes on display. This rubs me the wrong way. It just ends up looking like a retail store, not a toy collection.

I think I could be happy collecting just empty boxes of some lines. All the non-windowbox stuff would be great like the MPs, the '86 movie related giftsets from a while back, the Unite Warriors and Combine Wars giftsets, all of that has some great art. If being happy was my goal that's what I would do.

I learned once that walking through a toy show with empty boxes of desirable toys is a great conversation starter, so I don't so that anymore.

> Especially when they have so many that they have to stack the boxes sideways, so all you can see is the side panel.

Studio Series '86 can be nice looking sideways. Like an encyclopedia Hasbrobotica.

> I have a theory about collecting in general. I think that, as humans, we're all hard-wired to gather things.

My theory is any collector of male power fantasy archetypes like He-Man or giant robots is looking to replace their real life father for whatever reasons with a better little plastic one. It's daddy issues I think.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:37:53 AM UTC-7, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> Even if the focus is a single obscure character like the B-Wing pilot, Star Wars collectors can get prototypes, unreleased cardbacks, package variations, proof cards, all sorts of stuff and it's all from the same figure. Then they put it all together and it's a shrine to one insanely focused subject.

Yeah, you definitely don't see that much with Transformers. Every once in a while I look at the so-called test shots or prototypes on eBay, because I think it would be neat to own at least one of them. But, I'm not under any delusions, and I know pretty much all of them are going to be modern lunchtime specials or whatever. I imagine any stuff like that that exists has already made it into the hands of collectors who have far more connections and far more money than I do.

> Collectors are just pawns of a larger overall conspiracy masterminded by the plastic storage tote industry. I of course have what I consider a very rational and valid reason for collecting with a well defined goal. Everyone else is just collecting for the sake of collecting and they all seem quite mad to me.

Okay, now you're just mocking me!

> My theory is any collector of male power fantasy archetypes like He-Man or giant robots is looking to replace their real life father for whatever reasons with a better little plastic one. It's daddy issues I think.

I wonder if there's been any peer-reviewed research done on this? And if that's the case, then how do you explain Bronies?


Zob (got a new fridge recently but the ice maker is SO DAMN LOUD)

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 2:57:10 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:

> I wonder if there's been any peer-reviewed research done on this?

Oh, man. There are SO MANY online articles about this now. I've got like thirty tabs open in my browser. Welp, I know which rabbit hole I'll be spending my time going down today!


Zob

[Gustavo Wombat]

Brownies are men who are trying to find a new way of being men that doesn’t
involve a tired emulation of John Wayne movies, or a deconstruction of John
Wayne movies, or a post-modern interpretation of John Wayne movies.

Men who can show emotions, but have to hide behind small plastic ponies to
do so.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 3:10:49 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:

> Oh, man. There are SO MANY online articles about this now.

Okay, so here's what I've learned. (Keep in mind that I'm home sick today, so if none of this makes any sense, I hereby proclaim the right to blame it on the NyQuil.)

- There was an experiment done in which subjects were shown a bunch of regular objects, occasionally punctuated by an unusual one. A specific area of the brain lights up when we are presented with things that are odd or unique, and it's linked directly to the pleasure center of the brain. This could explain why collectors are particularly enamored with rare test shots or preproduction versions—not just because of the inherent monetary value, but because it also signals the part of the brain that goes, "Hey, this is unusual!"

- Collecting can be an intellectual discipline. It does require a certain degree of comprehensive knowledge to curate and manage a proper collection (which I think is why it really gets my goat when people display "collections" that are utter hodge-podge nonsense). You need to have an eye for what makes a good collectible (paint in good shape, tight joints, shiny chrome) and what makes a bad one (sun damaged, missing or broken pieces, misapplied stickers). I think this is also why it drives me bonkers when I see speculators going up and down the action figure aisle with their phones, scanning UPC's just to see what they can resell. They're clueless about the collector market; they're taking shortcuts to make up for their total lack of knowledge.

- Thirty to fourty percent of the population would be considered a collector in some form, but only about one to two percent quality of as obsessive-compulsive.

- Collecting is a completely normal thing for humans to do. It's healthy. My perception is that collecting have become somewhat more prevalent in recent years, and is more socially accepted than it used to be. Folks hear that you're a collector and they instantly think you must have some kind of disorder. There's a huge difference between being a collector and being a hoarder (the main difference being that collectors manage their behabior and actively decide what to collect and acquire, while hoarders don't).

- Collecting goes at least back to the 19th century, when rich European aristocrats would build a "cabinet of curiosities" to display their art or fossils or whatever they had acquired. At least a few of these collections led to the creation of the first Victorian-era museums.

There's a lady named Shirley M. Mueller who is a neuroscientist as well as a collector, and she wrote a book called Inside the Head of a Collector: Neuropsychological Forces at Play that I might have to hunt down later.

One final observation is that 20 or 25 years ago, fans and collectors used to come here and complain endlessly that store cashiers and employees would judge them mercilessly for buying children's toys. I think with the advent of self-checkouts, that's all but been eliminated (I can't tell you how many years it's been since I was forced to actually to have a conversation with a Walmart or Target cashier). More than that, though, is the preponderance of online shopping. I think, in some ways, this has driven collecting "underground"; i.e., we can still continue to do it all we want, but with virtually none of the social stigma that was once attached to it. I wonder, is this progress, or have we slipped backwards a bit?


Zob (remember the days when you would call Toys "R" Us and ask the store employees to name the characters who were on the pegs? ...Wait, I was the only one who did that?)

[Evil King Macrocranios]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 1:57:10 PM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:

> I wonder if there's been any peer-reviewed research done on this? And if that's the case, then how do you explain Bronies?

I think MLP's cross gender appeal is due to the main characters' designs being relatable non-humanoid forms and the immensely popular fantasy/adventure genre it exists in. You know how a drawing of a happy face is the most generic possible representation of a human face so everyone recognizes it? Equine bodies are shortcut to relatability in that same way. Girls are taught from a young age to dig unicorns and boys are taught that riding horses is cowboy cool. So from early on regardless of gender the horse is introduced to children as something universally accessible and okay to like within gender norms.

The toughest way to mass appeal is to tell a story with people in it. There are lots of different people out there and you want them all to buy into your story so you want your main character to be an everyman or everywoman (see already we're excluding half the audience) that the largest possible audience identifies with. But someone is always going to to find a human lead uninteresting or unidentifiable because it doesn't represent them. Abandoning the traditional humanoid hero (of whichever gender) is one way around this. A talking cartoon horse crosses all boundaries just as a smiley face drawing represents everybody.

I liked the old Transformer cartoon where some of the the Dery models weren't overtly male or female coded. Bumblebee was a very generic, gender ambiguous form. He reminds me of a toddler and maybe it was always meant to read that way. Starcream and the seekers were almost feminine in their slender sleekness. Some of those character designs reached peak gender ambiguity and could be read into as audience identification characters by anyone watching them. Tracks being a curvy blue car with a red face is one that comes to mind. Ironhide and Ratchet are kind of busty like droopy boobed women. But the leader characters were very much the standard heroic male physiques and they did eventually bring in overtly feminine robots to conform to the gender stereotypes of the day.

I think Beast Wars took the essence of the pony formula and applied it to Transformers. Turning into animals made them super relatable in their beast modes. The characters could be either male or female animals of their species. Was there any Beast Wars character whose alt mode was specifically a male or female? I think the largest Tyrannosaurs were the females so maybe Megatron. But the main point here is who can't identify with a giant purple dinosaur? It would be interesting if they tried to make it work the other way around and do robot pony racing warriors and really hit that typically male nitro circus demographic.

So anyway, MLP is adventure fantasy with non-humanoid characters with animals that children at an early age are taught it's okay to like. So I am not surprised the popularity crossed demographics beyond what many considered normal for that type of show. It's just a good time. Honestly I think the Brony phenomenon was a little blown out of proportion and was mostly a marketing meme perpetrated by Hasbro to bring buzz to the brand during Friendship is Magic.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 1:57:27 PM UTC-7, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> A talking cartoon horse crosses all boundaries just as a smiley face drawing represents everybody.

I love how insightful this is. It makes a great deal of sense to me.

I have a similar theory that some of the most popular fictional characters have been absolute losers. Charlie Brown, Arthur Dent, Ross Geller... and I think the appeal is that no matter what the audience's station in life, chances are they *still* have it better than these poor schlubs. It's fun to punch down.

So, clearly, the most popular character ever should be a talking cartoon horse who's a total loser. So, I guess I need to finally watch Bojack Horseman and see what that show is all about.


Zob

[Evil King Macrocranios]

On Tuesday, December 14, 2021 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:

> Regarding G.I. Joe, I pretty much only buy Cobra Commander, and that's it. Any other characters I've ended up with are usually an accident.

I was meaning to ask if you backed the Skystriker and HISS Haslabs or if you're going to cherry pick the Cobra Commander figures from those campaigns off of ebay sellers.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 10:49:14 AM UTC-6, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was meaning to ask if you backed the Skystriker and HISS Haslabs or if you're going to cherry pick the Cobra Commander figures from those campaigns off of ebay sellers.

I knew about the HasLab vehicles, but I didn't know Cobra Commander was part of the bundle. Huh. Well, that's something to think about.


Zob (just looked at the Old Snake figure on eBay... yikes, sticker shock)

[Joseph Bardsley]

Really enjoying the insightful takes in this thread: past, and present. :) Gender specificity and alt modes is a unique nut to crack (no pun intended).

JB

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:57:27 PM UTC-8, evil.king.m...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 1:57:10 PM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:
>
> > I wonder if there's been any peer-reviewed research done on this? And if that's the case, then how do you explain Bronies?
> I think MLP's cross gender appeal is due to the main characters' designs being relatable non-humanoid forms and the immensely popular fantasy/adventure genre it exists in. You know how a drawing of a happy face is the most generic possible representation of a human face so everyone recognizes it? Equine bodies are shortcut to relatability in that same way. Girls are taught from a young age to dig unicorns and boys are taught that riding horses is cowboy cool. So from early on regardless of gender the horse is introduced to children as something universally accessible and okay to like within gender norms.

I assure you that the men who like MLP are crossing gender norms. And that this is part of the fun. I'm not saying that it is sexual, but playing with and against the gender stereotypes is definitely part of the appeal of the brony community.

> The toughest way to mass appeal is to tell a story with people in it. There are lots of different people out there and you want them all to buy into your story so you want your main character to be an everyman or everywoman (see already we're excluding half the audience) that the largest possible audience identifies with. But someone is always going to to find a human lead uninteresting or unidentifiable because it doesn't represent them. Abandoning the traditional humanoid hero (of whichever gender) is one way around this. A talking cartoon horse crosses all boundaries just as a smiley face drawing represents everybody.

Bojack is beloved because he's relatable and raw, but the fact that he's a horse separates him enough from humanity that he isn't instantly relatable. It's a lot like how science fiction works -- separate the audience from the subject, tell stories that say things they might have trouble accepting if it were too grounded, and wait for them to catch up. It gets past people's defenses.

He's not an everyman, he a very carefully distanced person.

And, in a way MLP does the same thing by being utterly corny and earnest at the same time. It's just that MLP tells you that you can be kind, rather than that you're a horrible, self-destructive person who makes their self-destruction worse by taking down everyone around them.

> Ironhide and Ratchet are kind of busty like droopy boobed women.

With very manly voices. Every G1 Transformer is clearly gender-coded, at least until you get into the ones with no lines. A few are accidentally queer-coded on occasion, but even that is mostly people taking one or two moments out of context because they are so desperate for representation... and then they write slashfics.

And, even with other races in G1, you didn't really see any bending of gender norms. Men were men, and women were either very feminine or "not like all the other girls". The closest to gender norm violations was the Autobots watching "As the kitchen sinks", and that was a throwaway line.

> I think Beast Wars took the essence of the pony formula and applied it to Transformers. Turning into animals made them super relatable in their beast modes. The characters could be either male or female animals of their species. Was there any Beast Wars character whose alt mode was specifically a male or female?

Blackarachnia, Inferno and Waspinator, definitely. And everyone had very identifiably male or female voices.

(And Tigatron is canonically a female tiger... and Airazor is a boy in Japan, and we don't discuss that...)

> So anyway, MLP is adventure fantasy with non-humanoid characters with animals that children at an early age are taught it's okay to like. So I am not surprised the popularity crossed demographics beyond what many considered normal for that type of show. It's just a good time. Honestly I think the Brony phenomenon was a little blown out of proportion and was mostly a marketing meme perpetrated by Hasbro to bring buzz to the brand during Friendship is Magic.

Bronies are low effort furries. I don't mean that in a bad way, as furries tend to be excellent people, but a full fur suit and fursona is a bit out of reach for a lot of people. And some people don't want a big cartoon animal costume anyway.