Goodbye,I am leaving permanently
Th' Doc.
>
> Nope. Skir said there won't be any space to tell how he got there, next
> season.
That's rather dissapointing
Which is simply par for the course for Beast Machines...
Deatha...@webtv.net
I DEATHASAURAS am leaving this news group forever .
basically there is too much bullshit going on here & those beastmachine
haters are the main reason for I am leaving.
all these beastmachine haters do is bitch & complain that beastmachines
sucks & so on .
80% of these post here consist of --> " I hate beastmachines & bob skir
"
I first came here 4 years ago & it was pleasant & beautiful .
I would often come here with my toy idea's & concepts for hasbro to use.
my personal favorite was a --> transmetal lioconvoy ,that transformed
into a robot,lion & truck ( the front cab lke G-1 prime ,back trailer
was not in my designs )
There is basically nothing here for me anymore ,because of this
beastmachine hater nonsence.
IF anyone wishes to carry the beastmachine
lovers torch ,feel free to do so .
I have no future plans for comming back here ,
unlike neale's bullshit leave of absence.
I will keep to my word & never darken these halls again.
ANYWAY most of you Atters often called me a troll & made fun of my
typing & grammar.
THE reason why my writting was so bad was,
because I didnt give a damn about that nonsence, like a fellow atters
said TFX1 : " I come here for pleasure & its not school.
THERE were some nice ATTTERS here that actually liked me ,but most of
you just hated me.
SO I doubt , I will be missed much .
I believe in speaking my opinion ,no matter who gets offended ,but on
this news group its impolite to speak your opinion.
thats the 2nd reason why I'M leaving.
I am me & dont pretend to be another to make the majority happy.
IF I cant be myself here ,without getting mocked & critized then I LEAVE
-- GOOD BYE ALL .
here is one troll signing off this news group permanently.
TankorrSmash
interesting posts. But I do agree with you that there is too much hatred
towards BM and BM fans, yes I am a BM fan. So good luck and maybe talk to you
later sometime.
TANKORR PULVERIZE!!!!!
Heelstone
I don't mean to call you on this, but I swear I don't remember
Deatha...@webtv.net being here for 4 years. I even looked on
Deja.com, but to no avail. Even for just the words "Deathasaurus",
all that popped up in the past section was a few mentions of that
particular Japanese TF, and no direct post of yours.
I guess you lurked like I did during the eras of Afrojo/Akira99999 or
posted under different IDs, but I don't recall you being here for 4
years.
-=-
Heelstone
On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 02:13:59 -0500 (EST), Deatha...@webtv.net
wrote:
DarkPhoenix
>YES , the header is correct .
>I DEATHASAURAS am leaving this news group forever .
>basically there is too much bullshit going on here & those beastmachine
>haters are the main reason for I am leaving.
>all these beastmachine haters do is bitch & complain that beastmachines
>sucks & so on .
>80% of these post here consist of --> " I hate beastmachines & bob skir
>"
Gee, and you claimed Neale of trying to do the guilt trip crap when he gave his
"I'm leaving for a while" message? Goodbye twit, don't let Starscream slap you
on the ass on the way out . . .
Now, who's organizing the party?
DarkPhoenix
"Talk to me about Tankorr."
"Nice guy, little dim."
"Your GLORIOUS Army will shine less brightly with out his guiding . . .
Can I have his tank drones?!"
-Megatron,
Thrust,
and Jetstorm.
Survivor of a.t.t "Hell-Flame Wars" '98
No Porn Please
bye bye :)
No Porn Please
most on BW/G1...................An example are all the damn plot holes and
crappy story telling of Skir. Check his latest fact for a small example...Such
as the......"DUH I DONT KNOW HOW WASPY GOT THERE HE JUST DID HUH HUH...YEA
THATS THE TICKET" :op
Neo J. Menasor and Eevee
>THATS THE TICKET" :
*snaps* Hey shitwit, maybe that's one of the things he's planning on talking
about in Season 2?
The One and Only: Neo J. Menasor
Ronin Warriors fan No.8492
Supreme Commander of the Flying Grape Tree
Follower of Dreadite-sama
Lord of the Dance.
Sage of the Saxophone
The Covenent of Primus, it's a COOKBOOK!!!
Bogus88
"No Porn Please" <tf...@aol.comspamsux> wrote in message
news:19991223063623...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
> Believe it or not people actually have a right to question the BM show
unlike
> most on BW/G1...................An example are all the damn plot holes and
> crappy story telling of Skir.
Oh com now, BW and G1 especially had glaring plot holes, poor story telling,
and animation fwubbles up the wazzoo.
G1's continuity was shot to hell with the origin of the Constructicons,
season 2 bots who come outta nowhere, did the dinobots have sparks?, if they
did, why did the Arielbots need vector sigma to get their sparks?, since
when is getting shot in the arm fatal for a TF?, just how many Hotspots are
there?, swindle is an Autobot?, Prime has some kind of crazing healing
ability, which also regenerates limbs, the protectabots just decide to come
into existance, the Matrix was just there, Carnage in C-Minor, the Low Road,
Go with the flow, Waspy gets blown to bits and survives(who does he think
he is, Prime?), Inferno is vaporized in the cave, then staggers out,
Tarantulas is at the center of an explosion and survives, while Ravage bites
it, and how exactly did Screamer's spark break the time barrier?
Please keep in mind that this comes from a die hard fan of all the TF
series. Someone who actully hates it, could probably come up with more.
--
Dan E. Dutra
AIM Bogus88
HEY, Get paid to surf the net!
http://www.vipbenefits.com/index.asp?refID=100017288
Blancodiablo
Theres nothing like a group squabble to let you know who the idiots are.
No Porn Please
that......If you read the FAQ on his page u'd know that u stupid bucket of
monkey piss.......
Know the facts before you open your mouth.
No Porn Please
was simply They never pissed the fans off as much as BM...I mean we all laugh
at plot/continutity errors of G1.......But there is no call for it in
BM...........
SILVERBOLT - Mr. Vertigo Himself
Please get some sense of civility before you open yours.
--
Rikard Bakke
Swo...@xoommail.com
The Cybertron Chronicle
http://members.xoom.com/Swoop73/
Transformers Fan Code
G++ FR FW+ #72 D+ AA+ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC98++ BC99++ BC2000 CN+++ OM+
No Porn Please
of my posts are non flamatory...But when your dealing with Deathsauras and his
buddies......Well.....Hopefully you get the idea.
Maximus Prime
Deathasauras2, VictoryLeo, DragonMegatron, or
whatever else you come up with :-)
<waves>
--
--Maximus Prime
Writer of the Maximal Gambit
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nova/6206
"If I don't make it, tell my wife I said hello."
M.S. Robinson
>that, and if I had a killfile, I'd probably killfile about a quarter
>of ATT, including some of the more 'serious' people here. A piece3 of
>advice: DON'T read those messages about BM bashing.
>
May I give my two cents?
I am a die-hard G1-G2er. I STILL will not buy any BW toys, as I think that
they are not well planned out.(Though I WILL buy some Vehicons.)
HOWEVER, I MUCH prefer the story telling of BW and BM over the G1 stories.
They have much more consistancy, plot carry-overs, and most plot points aren't
forgotten when it suits them. Also, when a chracter is added or introduced,
it's done in a way that makes sense, not just "Oh, You're now here' like G1.
So maybe BM isn't up to the BW standards. Did anyone think that maybe the
heavily-Saban-influenced FOX may have something to do with that? I do. (But I
despise the Waspinator-is-Thrust revelation...)
Anyway, I'm done for now.
Mike
"Silliness has it's place. Stupidity does not."
eglang
were not even self aware when the real transformers were released, i laugh at those
who say decepticons are heros.
Straight-Edge
they are not well planned out>>
As opposed to the delicately planned out 80's Transformers.
1984:
"Let's take some Japanes toys, and paint em up real good, then put a story
together and make a buncha money."
or the 1987 version:
"Let's make vehicles that don't look like anything, and turn them into robot
bricks that only barel resemble robots at that!"
There's good and bad in everything, don't be blinded. Beast machines may have
some wacky animal modes, and some overly-simplistic transformations, but then
again, Generation 1 had Mini-bots and Jumpstartes.
Yin and Yang, my friend, yin and yang.
Straight-Edge (Now Trademarked by Lanard Toys)
Straight-Edge
I feel bad for them actually.
I mean, I'm all for looking at the story from the viewpoint not presented in
the cartoon (which skewed evil actions to better fit the idea that our heroes
were the ultimate force of good)
But to be so jaded with the original story to deny its validity, and completely
rewrite it and taking that rewrite as the *truth* (and truth for a cartoon no
less), is just.. weird.
Its good to dissect any and all works of fiction, but to completely do away
with the original story in favo of yours.. its disrespectful to those who spent
the time putting it together in the first place. Both can exist together.
David Cousens
Deathasauraswrote in message 282.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
YES , the header is correct .
I DEATHASAURAS am leaving this news group forever .
*snip*
I give him 2 months before he's back under a different alias.
Dave
(The Original) cyninc.
Devvi
shit like this it would be a big improvement. Posts like this just put
fuel to the fire and they are useless because you're leaving anyway.
And yes, my post here also adds fuel to the fire, but hopefully it
will be a lesson.
On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 02:13:59 -0500 (EST), Deatha...@webtv.net
wrote:
>YES , the header is correct .
>I DEATHASAURAS am leaving this news group forever .
Greetings,
Daniel 'Devvi' Vink
dv...@kabelfoon.nl
http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~dvink
~~~
"I Transform. Therefore I am."
SLIMER1509
>at plot/continutity errors of G1.......But there is no call for it in
>BM...........
I would wonder why so many fans seem to look the other way at G1's errors, but
get so bent out of shape at the few errors BM actually has (most notable to me
being the fact that Skir isn't planning on saying anymore about how Waspy got
back to Cybertron).
Recharge
Recharge, wondering what his next screen name will be...
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Steven Acevedo
>Oh com now, BW and G1 especially had glaring plot holes, poor story telling,
>and animation fwubbles up the wazzoo.
>
>G1's continuity was shot to hell with the origin of the Constructicons,
>season 2 bots who come outta nowhere, did the dinobots have sparks?, if they
>did, why did the Arielbots need vector sigma to get their sparks?, since
>when is getting shot in the arm fatal for a TF?, just how many Hotspots are
>there?, swindle is an Autobot?, Prime has some kind of crazing healing
>ability, which also regenerates limbs, the protectabots just decide to come
>into existance,
<<snip!>>
I have to laugh at all of this. There were glitches but no one tv
series is perfect. Quibbling over miniscule details is just plain
silly and just wastes a lot of bandwidth.
I learned a long time ago to appreciate what G1 was without worryuing
about The Origins of The Constructicons or whether Soundwave was
mistakenly given an Autobot symbol in The MTMTE saga.
Explaining everything away takes the fun out of watching a show. If
you get too caught up trying to fit everything together it makes the
viewing experience rather dull.
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Cheetimus Prime
>>THATS THE TICKET" :
>
>*snaps* Hey shitwit, maybe that's one of the things he's planning on talking
>about in Season 2?
>
Nope. Skir said there won't be any space to tell how he got there, next
season.
Cheetimus Prime
"Butter makes everything taste better!"
"Dammit! Why do these meatball sandwiches have to be so hard to eat?!"
"The digital pimp hard at work."
Recharge
goeag...@aol.comhoodyhoo (Cheetimus Prime) wrote:
> >>"DUH I DONT KNOW HOW WASPY GOT THERE HE JUST DID HUH HUH...YEA
> >>THATS THE TICKET" :
> >
> >*snaps* Hey shitwit, maybe that's one of the things he's planning
> on talking
> >about in Season 2?
> >
> Nope. Skir said there won't be any space to tell how he got
> there, next
> season.
> Cheetimus Prime
Good. Gives the fanfic people room to work. I"m looking forward to a
long arc on the adventures of Waspinator through space and time (Neale,
you could do this!)
Recharge, they don't HAVE to explain everything
Neo J. Menasor and Eevee
Heh..gotta add that to the sig!
>Skir has NO INTENTION of discussing
>that......If you read the FAQ on his page u'd know that u stupid bucket of
>monkey piss....
Um....this is from the guy who
A) Said an episode guide was false...when it turned out to be true.
B) Said Waspinator wasn't coming back.
So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Neo J. Menasor and Eevee
You make it look like I LIKE Deathsaurus.....who is a stereotypical WebTVer (No
typing skills, no grammar skills, can't spell, etc/). I'm THANKFUL he's gone.
Dan Perlberger
return by you sometime in the future. Not many ATTers can stay away from
this place for that long.
Dan
<Deatha...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21856-38...@storefull-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Cheetimus Prime
>goeag...@aol.comhoodyhoo (Cheetimus Prime) wrote:
>> >>"DUH I DONT KNOW HOW WASPY GOT THERE HE JUST DID HUH HUH...YEA
>> >>THATS THE TICKET" :
>> >
>> >*snaps* Hey shitwit, maybe that's one of the things he's planning
>> on talking
>> >about in Season 2?
>> >
>> Nope. Skir said there won't be any space to tell how he got
>> there, next
>> season.
>> Cheetimus Prime
>
>Good. Gives the fanfic people room to work. I"m looking forward to a
>long arc on the adventures of Waspinator through space and time (Neale,
>you could do this!)
Maybe. Course, Skir could be playing with our minds again. (The episode guide
was fake, Waspy wouldn't be back, etc.)
Neale Davidson
> long arc on the adventures of Waspinator through space and time (Neale,
> you could do this!)
I already /am/! DJ is Waspinator in the BW2 fanfics. :) This becomes more
important
later, mind you... The sparks of Inferno, Quickstrike, and Waspinator are
being used
for Tripledecus.
(Stealing more moments since I got my projects done a little early.)
--
Neale Davidson - TFN...@home.com
Keeper of the Protoform Project - http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale/index.htm
"Beast Machines: Blackarachnia's legs split apart just like the do on the
show!"
GB
GB
Ari X
>
> I know that.....I didn't say it was clean of it.......But come on......My point
> at plot/continutity errors of G1.......But there is no call for it in
> BM...........
That because there _were no_ diehard fans when G1 came out. That's why
we can "laugh at" all of G1' mess-ups. I say it again, here's what the
average G1 fan was thinking back then: "Gee, they killed Megatron and
now Galvatron's here...I'm gonna go play on the swings!". If you look
at G1 no without the tinted glasses of nostalgia, you will be in for a
bit of a shock, and I think you'll be a tiny bit more appreciative of
BM/BW.
--
~Ar...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8076/arix.htm
****************
Frankly, we shouldn't have had those interns. They're a pain in the
ass.
--Richard M. Nixon
****************
Ari X
Zepherimus
This is all a plee for sympathy and I for one could care less. I don't like
to see any contributinf member of ATT leave , but this guy is more trouble
than he is worth.
Sorry Deathy
Zepherimus
Aziraphale
arrows sometimes, but I think you improved a lot in these last three
months. You're a lot better than that Rattrap69, for example.
Now, about the BM bashing: you're right. I'm really getting sick of
that, and if I had a killfile, I'd probably killfile about a quarter
of ATT, including some of the more 'serious' people here. A piece3 of
advice: DON'T read those messages about BM bashing.
Oh, and by the way, I included you in my latest part of the ATT-RPG
Nemesis: the new crew.
--
Aziraphale, aka Thomas Hamann,
tdha...@xoommail.com
Personal Home Page: http://members.xoom.com/tdhamann/ (not ready yet)
Who doesn't know what faction's better.
__________ _ _
|\\\__///| SHOCKWAVE |\_|\/|_/|
|\**||**/| AZIRAPHALE |__|==|__|
|_| || |_| on the ATT-RPG | __\/__ |
| __ | |\ * * /|
\_|__|_/ \_\__/_/
Official owner of the Tailless Skullcrunsher NoHeadMaster
Fav' 'Cons: Starscream,the Insecticons
Fav' 'Bots: Guzzle, Quickswitch.
Beastwars rules! Dinobot is cool! Inferno is 'hot'!
TF Fancode: G++ FR FW M- #78 D+ ADA N+++ W B+ OP TF2k5- EBC99- EBC00+
Zobovor
>I believe in speaking my opinion ,no matter who gets offended ,but
>on this news group its impolite to speak your opinion.
....
Looks like ATT still needs a lot of work. Sorry to see you go, Deathasauras.
The Knight23
ATTers (I found that out when I posted my *itch letter last week.) Stick
around. Who knows what the new year holds :)
Knight
No Porn Please
you are...Just as I stated in an email when you accused me of mistating that
Waspy wasn't comin back or that Skir's FAQ is bogus.....Your thinking of the
wrong guy b/c I have NEVER EVER commented on any of the above statements.....At
least not in any shape or form that you are refering to..
No Porn Please
either situation......Ur thinkin of someone else bud.
>
>Um....this is from the guy who
>A) Said an episode guide was false...when it turned out to be true.
>B) Said Waspinator wasn't coming back.
>
>So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
>
>
>
>The One and Only: Neo J. Menasor
>Ronin Warriors fan No.8492
>Supreme Commander of the Flying Grape Tree
>Follower of Dreadite-sama
>Lord of the Dance.
>Sage of the Saxophone
>The Covenent of Primus, it's a COOKBOOK!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Um....this is from the guy who
>A) Said an episode guide was false...when it turned out to be true.
>B) Said Waspinator wasn't coming back.
>
>So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
>
>
>
Tyme
And please... Don't come back.
~ Tyme
The Time TRaveling Cat with a Santa Hat
michael nicolai
--Corn
TankorrSmash
>at plot/continutity errors of G1.......But there is no call for it in
>BM...........
Why is it ok for G1 and not BM???
TANKORR PULVERIZE!!!!!
M Sipher
news:19991224015105...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
> >I mean we all laugh
> >at plot/continutity errors of G1.......But there is no call for it in
> >BM...........
>
> Why is it ok for G1 and not BM???
Because people love double standards that favor them?
M "Now, I'm Only An Armchair Psychiatrist, But That's My Call On The Matter"
Sipher
Túrin
>
> Excuse me neo...aka Captain dingleberry.....Skir has NO INTENTION of discussing
> that......If you read the FAQ on his page u'd know that u stupid bucket of
>
> Know the facts before you open your mouth.
How did you get out of the killfile?
<checks lid>
Changed your name, eh? Back ya go.
<flush>
Túrin
"In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is hunted down and
killed."
Túrin
> That because there _were no_ diehard fans when G1 came out. That's why
> we can "laugh at" all of G1' mess-ups. I say it again, here's what the
> average G1 fan was thinking back then: "Gee, they killed Megatron and
> now Galvatron's here...I'm gonna go play on the swings!". If you look
> at G1 no without the tinted glasses of nostalgia, you will be in for a
> bit of a shock, and I think you'll be a tiny bit more appreciative of
> BM/BW.
Well obviously when it *first* came out there coulnd't be die-hard fans,
but by the time of the movie there certainly were, and a lot of folks
got very ticked off at the lousy stuff that happened in the movie.
Túrin
The (Unofficial) Official Beast Wars Non-Show Character Site
http://knoledge.org/NSCS/
Radio Free Cybertron
http://rfcybertron.cjb.net/
Transformers Fanfic and Related Junk
http://knoledge.org/mormegil/
White Cat
>
> YES , the header is correct .
> I DEATHASAURAS am leaving this news group forever .
WELL, Door -----> Hit you -----> way OUT ..
> THERE were some nice ATTTERS here that actually liked me ,but most of
^^^^^^^
alt.toys.transformers.trying.everything.really.sucks ?
> here is one troll signing off this news group permanently.
I didn't consider you a troll. More of an yappy little dog that was
quite annoying, but still provided some amusement. :)
.'.
|\ _|_|_ /|
|\ ,-' .|. `-. /| White Cat, who occasionally puts a witty
\`-._,'|'._,-'/ and informative comment in this space.
|`-.|_(_)_|,-'|
/|| o | o ||\
\|'.__.|.__.'|/ The White Cat Network
\|== | ==|/ http://www.white-cat.net/
`---|_|---'
Stickpony3
that, take a long walk off a short pier.
Stick
HooksX
(X)
M.S. Robinson
>flame war breaks out, where not only (semi-)trolls flame everyone, but
>also some of the more serious people flame everyone. That's what
>pisses me off.
Hey, it could be worse.
We could be the Pokemon Newsgroup.
(heh heh....)
Mike
"Silliness has it's place. Stupidity does not."
M.S. Robinson
>guide
>was fake, Waspy wouldn't be back, etc.)
Season 2, Beast Machines:
FADE IN:
Black Arachnia wakes up, disoriented. She heads towards the regeneration
chamber, wondering why she looks like her TM2 self again, and why she's back in
the Autobot shuttle. She gets to the refresher, and notices someone's in it.
Apprehensive, she pulls open the door.
"Good morning, my lovely black rose," says Silverbolt, finishing cleaning up.
"But , but, how?! Why are you here? Why aren't you changed into a vehicon!?
Where's Megetron?! Why aren't we re-formatted?"
She starts to collapse, but Silverbolt catches her.
"Ther, there," he says, while soothing her,"It's all right, it was just a bad
dream. Everything's fine."
"Oh, thank goodness," she says, leaning in closer to Silverbolt. They start to
kiss.
FADE OUT.
(heh heh)
No Porn Please
explanation you know?
That was in G1....alot...BW fixed alot of the holes...made some...but filled in
some tf history there...Now Bobby is just playing with the show like its a
toy....screw continuity.It has been established that TF fans demand more and
thats what we want!
Ari X
>
> Ari X wrote:
> > That because there _were no_ diehard fans when G1 came out. That's why
> > we can "laugh at" all of G1' mess-ups. I say it again, here's what the
> > average G1 fan was thinking back then: "Gee, they killed Megatron and
> > now Galvatron's here...I'm gonna go play on the swings!". If you look
> > at G1 no without the tinted glasses of nostalgia, you will be in for a
> > bit of a shock, and I think you'll be a tiny bit more appreciative of
> > BM/BW.
>
> Well obviously when it *first* came out there coulnd't be die-hard fans,
> but by the time of the movie there certainly were, and a lot of folks
> got very ticked off at the lousy stuff that happened in the movie.
Really? I find that hard to believe. Maybe they were sad that Optimus
died, but I'm sure that 99% of the fans kept on watching the show and
buying the toys. And no one went around to their friends yelling about
how Ron Friedman had ruined all that TFs had ever stood for. There is a
huge double standard between what we'll accept for G1 and for BW/BM. If
people would realize that maybe there'd be alittle less yelling around
here.
Phantasm
thing. But still, if he decided to leave, let him leave. End of story. There
was no reason for a response to his posts. He was just saying that he left.
He didn't need people saying "Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way
out." He probably expected that already. Personally, I haven't read much of
his posts so I don't know much about him. Basically what I'm trying to say is
couldn't you just _read_ the posts and let that be that?
Phantasm
====================
End Transmission...
JMRV
>
>Yin and Yang, my friend, yin and yang.
>Straight-Edge (Now Trademarked by Lanard Toys)
Well.... MiniBots kinda suck the way they are (been as I call them,
"incomplete" - i.e. no defined bopdy parts like as in Bumblebee, who also
lacks a waist and hip) , but the symplistic transformation is OK. The same
goes for Jumpstarters. I hink that gimmick was great. By the way, that's
just
my opinion and I'm not interested in forcing it down anybody's throat
because
this is a free word and everybody have the right to express him/herself. And
let me end it here because I don't want to start a pointless debate. Instead
let us talk about how to keep the fandom alive.
JMR
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Straight-Edge
anybody's throat because this is a free word and everybody have the right to
express him/herself. And let me end it here because I don't want to start a
pointless debate. >>
;)
hehe, but seriously, I was just taking the characters who had very simplistic
transformations, to illustrate that there are always gonna be complex and
simple, cool, and crappy, fun, and boring.
Everyone's gonna like what they like, and I'm glad you voiced your opinion.
>>Instead let us talk about how to keep the fandom alive.>>
Amen, my friend.
M Sipher
news:386174BA...@arn.net...
> >
> > Nope. Skir said there won't be any space to tell how he got there, next
> > season.
>
> That's rather dissapointing
>
> Which is simply par for the course for Beast Machines...
Agreed. If they're not gonna have any kind of explanation for his return,
than what's the damn point? If HOW he got back is of no importance to the
story, then doesn't Waspinator's very EXSTANCE here have no importance to
the story?
Or, to put it another way, if Waspy was really that important, wouldn't they
give us ANYTHING as to his voyage?
M "We Fans Should NOT Have To Be Making Up Crap To Fill In Gaps Like This!"
Sipher
Th' Doc.
I forgot...
Bogus88
"No Porn Please" <tf...@aol.comspamsux> wrote in message
news:19991224150003...@ng-fd1.aol.com...
> No b/c BW set the standard for NOT making stupid crap just happen b/c
....w/o
> explanation you know?
>
> That was in G1....alot...BW fixed alot of the holes...made some...but
filled in
> some tf history there...Now Bobby is just playing with the show like its a
> toy....screw continuity.
I'll ask again, since I've never gotten a satisfactory answer, how exactly
did he screw the continuity?
--
Dan E. Dutra
AIM Bogus88
HEY, Get paid to surf the net!
http://www.vipbenefits.com/index.asp?refID=100017288
Tyme
>Bye!
But I'm staying. ;)
Okay, you can start running for your lives now.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
~ Tyme
The Time Traveling Cat with a Santa Hat
Picard42
I figure the point was to surprise us when they revealed he was there in the
first place. Okay, fine. You surprised me. Now what? We're stuck with a
season and a fraction of Waspinator being there for no good reason and the
only pay-off was an ultimately frustrating surprise that lasted a few
minutes. That was sure worth ruining the happy ending of Beast Wars...
On another note, the FAQ flat-out says that we won't be getting any Dinobots
next season.
Translation: Whee! Dinobots next season! :D
--- Picard42, who can't wait the Dinobots to appear in the second season
premiere.
www.fandome.com/tfww
M Sipher
news:841neo$e6g$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
I think it's kinda time for spoiler space, what the hell...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[Waspy]
>
> I figure the point was to surprise us when they revealed he was there in
the
> first place. Okay, fine. You surprised me.
Indeed. But at that point, having the captive Spark be Mahatma Freakin'
Ghandi would make roughly the same amount of sense and be just as suprising.
(Okay, a slight exaggeration there, but still...)
> Now what? We're stuck with a
> season
... of catching up to the present, as Rob Powers put it so very well indeed.
And we're STILL missing some rather important info...
> and a fraction of Waspinator being there for no good reason
Why? Just so we can say "hey, Waspinator's back!"? I still fail to see how
his presense on Cybertron contributes in any way to the story any more than
any other random Spark would...
(It'd have been cooler if Black tossed in the goop, and it turns out Thrust
was... THRUST! He was himself! His BW flashback? Implanted by
Blackarachnia... I remember reading something along those lines when it
comes to supposed alien abductees... slight suggestion leads to the person
in question giving a more-or-less pre-determined story...)
> and the
> only pay-off was an ultimately frustrating surprise that lasted a few
> minutes. That was sure worth ruining the happy ending of Beast Wars...
Or, half the happy ending. We KNEW that the "coming home" ending would be
shot to hell come the next season... but we had the "history is saved" and
"poor old Waspy gets his reward".
> On another note, the FAQ flat-out says that we won't be getting any
Dinobots
> next season.
>
> Translation: Whee! Dinobots next season! :D
But what if that lie is a lie?
M "I'm Finished With Liiiiieeees, Liiiiieeees, You'll Never Believe Me
Now..." Sipher
M.S. Robinson
>Ghandi would make roughly the same amount of sense and be just as suprising.
>(Okay, a slight exaggeration there, but still...)
>
I was kinda hopin', considering how moody Thrust was, that his spark was that
of none other than.....
RODIMUS PRIME!
(Well, it WOULD make sense........)
Zobovor
>It'd have been cooler if Black tossed in the goop, and it turns out
>Thrust was... THRUST!
BLACHARACHNIA: Silverbolt...!
THRUST: ...Aerialbot? Where? Let us teach him a lesson in fear! "Reject
parts"? Mwaa ha ha ha haaaa! Your insolence is disturbing Ha haaa! No body
for Unicron!
BLACKARACHNIA: Ooooooookayfine.
<g>
ZobTrivia (12/25): Cite three episodes of G1 that featured snow.
(12/23): Transformer scorpions: Black Zarak; Double Punch (2); Pincher;
Quickstrike; Sandstorm; Scorpia; Scorponok (3); Scorpulator.
Happy Holidays!
HooksX
>M Sipher wrote:
>
>>It'd have been cooler if Black tossed in the goop, and it turns out
>>Thrust was... THRUST!
>
>BLACHARACHNIA: Silverbolt...!
>
>THRUST: ...Aerialbot? Where? Let us teach him a lesson in fear! "Reject
>parts"? Mwaa ha ha ha haaaa! Your insolence is disturbing Ha haaa! No
>body
>for Unicron!
Damn. You. Zob. You've made me spit Egg Nog onto my keyboard. Is this revenge
for that whole Primal=Cyclops bit?
"No body for Unicron..." Hah!
(X)
Túrin
> > Well obviously when it *first* came out there coulnd't be die-hard fans,
> > but by the time of the movie there certainly were, and a lot of folks
> > got very ticked off at the lousy stuff that happened in the movie.
>
> Really? I find that hard to believe. Maybe they were sad that Optimus
> died, but I'm sure that 99% of the fans kept on watching the show and
> buying the toys. And no one went around to their friends yelling about
> how Ron Friedman had ruined all that TFs had ever stood for. There is a
> huge double standard between what we'll accept for G1 and for BW/BM. If
> people would realize that maybe there'd be alittle less yelling around
> here.
Sure, I don't know what I'm talking about. You obviously haven't read
my many, many posts on the violence in TFTM.
Since I can't speak for the others, I'll tell you that *I* was a
die-hard G1 fan, and the movie was horrible. It killed off characters I
cared a great deal about, and the shuttle scene was really one of the
most violently traumatic movie scenes I've witnessed. My interest in
Transformers *did* take a very hard hit. And I still haven't forgiven
the writer of TFTM.
There. One exception to your statement, which makes it false.
M Sipher
news:19991225085823...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> M Sipher wrote:
>
> >It'd have been cooler if Black tossed in the goop, and it turns out
> >Thrust was... THRUST!
>
> BLACHARACHNIA: Silverbolt...!
>
> THRUST: ...Aerialbot? Where? Let us teach him a lesson in fear!
"Reject
> parts"? Mwaa ha ha ha haaaa! Your insolence is disturbing Ha haaa! No
body
> for Unicron!
>
Oy....
Okay, what I REALLY meant (and I'm sure Zob knows this and was just being a
smartass) was that the personality that we've seen in Thrust the whole
season was his ONLY one. That, much like when Primal went Transmetal, his
unchanged Spark was transplanted into a new body.
> (12/23): Transformer scorpions: Black Zarak; Double Punch (2); Pincher;
> Quickstrike; Sandstorm; Scorpia; Scorponok (3); Scorpulator.
You forgot the official G2 watch, "Scorpia" or something... it transformed
from wtahc to scorpion. I think Tut brought it to BotCon one year...
M "Yum, Dr Pepper Jelly Bellys..." Sipher
Ari X
>
> Ari X wrote:
> > > Well obviously when it *first* came out there coulnd't be die-hard fans,
> > > but by the time of the movie there certainly were, and a lot of folks
> > > got very ticked off at the lousy stuff that happened in the movie.
> >
> > Really? I find that hard to believe. Maybe they were sad that Optimus
> > died, but I'm sure that 99% of the fans kept on watching the show and
> > buying the toys. And no one went around to their friends yelling about
> > how Ron Friedman had ruined all that TFs had ever stood for. There is a
> > huge double standard between what we'll accept for G1 and for BW/BM. If
> > people would realize that maybe there'd be alittle less yelling around
> > here.
>
> Sure, I don't know what I'm talking about. You obviously haven't read
> my many, many posts on the violence in TFTM.
Obviously...
>
> Since I can't speak for the others, I'll tell you that *I* was a
> die-hard G1 fan, and the movie was horrible. It killed off characters I
> cared a great deal about, and the shuttle scene was really one of the
> most violently traumatic movie scenes I've witnessed. My interest in
> Transformers *did* take a very hard hit. And I still haven't forgiven
> the writer of TFTM.
Did you stop collecting the toys and watching the show? Considering
that you're on this group right now, I'm guessing the answer is no.
Maybe you didn't _like_ the movie, but I doubt you (or anyone, really)
let it interfere with your appreciation of TFs over all.
Actually, this kind proves my point that there is a double standard when
looking back on G1, compared to BW/BM. Let's say there were die-hard
fans back during the mid-80's (and according to Turin, there were).
they would have been mighty peeved when they saw the movie (and
according to Turin, he was). But we accept the movie because none of us
(except Turin) really cared all that much. If the movie (or it's
equivalent updated for today's plotlines) came out today, there'd be
blood running in the streets. But, since we're looking back on it
through nostalgia's tinted view, it "wasn't that bad".
>
> There. One exception to your statement, which makes it false.
Hey, that's all it takes. Look above and see that I said "99% of the
fans". Besides, the idea that there weren't _any_ die-hard fans isn't
my point really, its that if there were lots of hard core fans, the
things the movie did would have pissed them off mightily. But since
there really were no die-harders (except Turin), no one got pissed.
Túrin
> > Since I can't speak for the others, I'll tell you that *I* was a
> > die-hard G1 fan, and the movie was horrible. It killed off characters I
> > cared a great deal about, and the shuttle scene was really one of the
> > most violently traumatic movie scenes I've witnessed. My interest in
> > Transformers *did* take a very hard hit. And I still haven't forgiven
> > the writer of TFTM.
>
> Did you stop collecting the toys and watching the show? Considering
> that you're on this group right now, I'm guessing the answer is no.
> Maybe you didn't _like_ the movie, but I doubt you (or anyone, really)
> let it interfere with your appreciation of TFs over all.
You have no idea what you are talking about. I responded to your
original point, that there were no die-hard fans of G1. You were
*wrong*. Why add extra criteria after the fact? And you still doubt
that anyone let the movie interfere with their appreciation of TFs over
all. I just got through *telling* you that TFTM *DID* interfere with my
appreciation. But by all means, reply and call me a liar again.
> Actually, this kind proves my point that there is a double standard when
> looking back on G1, compared to BW/BM. Let's say there were die-hard
> fans back during the mid-80's (and according to Turin, there were).
> they would have been mighty peeved when they saw the movie (and
> according to Turin, he was). But we accept the movie because none of us
> (except Turin) really cared all that much. If the movie (or it's
> equivalent updated for today's plotlines) came out today, there'd be
> blood running in the streets. But, since we're looking back on it
> through nostalgia's tinted view, it "wasn't that bad".
No. The movie *still* stinks. You have proved *nothing*.
> Hey, that's all it takes. Look above and see that I said "99% of the
> fans". Besides, the idea that there weren't _any_ die-hard fans isn't
> my point really, its that if there were lots of hard core fans, the
> things the movie did would have pissed them off mightily. But since
> there really were no die-harders (except Turin), no one got pissed.
Is this your first day on ATT? How can you say there were no die-hard
G1 fans? There were loads. Transfandom didn't start with Beast Wars.
There are still lots of G1 fans that don't like Beast Wars. Your whole
premise is false.
I'm amazed at how you think that everyone else is just like you. "There
_were no_ diehard fans" of G1. "99% of the fans" kept buying the toys,
you say. As if you have data. As a matter of fact, Optimus Prime was
resurrected *BECAUSE THE FANS WERE PEEVED* at his death in the film.
They *cared*. You don't even know the history of G1 if you think no one
was peeved at the movie.
I'm surprised I have to point this out.
Túrin
in my previous post (and some other recent ones as well). I've had
several bad things happen to me today and I am in a very angry and
depressed mood. I shouldn't reply when I am touchy. I know better, but
I failed. (You're still wrong, Ari, but I had no excuse to be rude in
my response.)
Túrin
"In the country of the type A personalities, Túrin fits right in."
Th' Doc.
>
> Because the Movie is old hat, while BM is brand-new and just coming
> out...
Eeeeeew...
Th' Doc.
Darwinian Road Kill wrote:
> DarkPhoenix (xdarkp...@aol.comNorfair) wrote:
> : Gee, and you claimed Neale of trying to do the guilt trip crap when he gave his
> : "I'm leaving for a while" message? Goodbye twit, don't let Starscream slap you
> : on the ass on the way out . . .
>
> Starscream: "I AM NOT GAY!!!!"
>
> Ryan :P
G1 Starscream isn't at least.
BWII Starscream on the other hand...
MasterShrink
>Since I can't speak for the others, I'll tell you that *I* was a
>die-hard G1 fan, and the movie was horrible. It killed off characters I
>cared a great deal about, and the shuttle scene was really one of the
>most violently traumatic movie scenes I've witnessed. My interest in
>Transformers *did* take a very hard hit. And I still haven't forgiven
>the writer of TFTM.
For me it really wasn't the fact that those characters died but just how they
died.
These were characters I'd known for two years and they didn't die as heroes.
Prowl, Ratchet, Brawn Ironhide didn't even take a Decepticon down with them.
And Wheeljack and Windcharger didn't even get a death scene. They were knocked
off in a way that was so obvious even to a child that those character we'd
cared about were now obsolete and thus killed.
The only thing about that scene I felt was a little over the top on violence
was Prowl's death (first witnessed by me at the wee age of about 3 or 4). It
took me about five viewings of the movie to be able to sit through that. And
while I wasn't traumatized by the scene or any other movie death (probably due
to the constant emphasis I grew up with in my house that war is hell) I could
see why it would catch a kid and a parent off guard.
I'd have had no problem with killing old characters as long as it gave them a
good death. Optimus Prime and Meagtron went down the right way, so did
Starscream and maybe Ironhide.
And these aren't my only reasons for not being a big far of TFTM.....
-Master Shrink
HooksX
>> (12/23): Transformer scorpions: Black Zarak; Double Punch (2); Pincher;
>> Quickstrike; Sandstorm; Scorpia; Scorponok (3); Scorpulator.
>
>You forgot the official G2 watch, "Scorpia" or something... it transformed
>from wtahc to scorpion. I think Tut brought it to BotCon one year...
O_o
I think you're getting a bit BLIND in yer old age, Siph. Scorpia's listed right
there, before "Scorponok (3)."
(X)
M Sipher
news:19991225215923...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
That's nice, but I'm waiting to see what Hooks has to say about this.
M "I Really Need To Stop Posting After Four Hours' Sleep..." Sipher
Zobovor
>How can you say there were no die-hard G1 fans?
I got the impression Ari X meant that there were no die-hard G1 fans back in
1984, when the toys and show first came out. One could also suppose that if
Transformers: the Movie took around two years to make, then the idea for the
movie came up not too long after the show's inception (they probably decided to
go ahead with it right after the big 1984 holiday toy rush, I'm thinking).
However, I totally disagree that there were no diehard fans of Transformers by
the time the movie came out. I was definitely one of them. I had friends who
were diehard fans too. In fifth grade, my friend Nicky and I used to spend
recess every day talking about Transformers.
Zobovor, whose brain is wired to remember what grade he was in, but rarely how
old he was or what year it was. Suffice to say, my memory gets way spotty
after I got out of school. :)
ZobTrivia (12/25): Cite three episodes of G1 that featured snow.
(12/23): Transformer scorpions: Black Zarak; Double Punch (2); Pincher;
Quickstrike; Sandstorm; Scorpia; Scorponok (3); Scorpulator.
Happy Holidays!
JMRV
>;)
>hehe, but seriously, I was just taking the characters who had very simplistic
>transformations, to illustrate that there are always gonna be complex and
>simple, cool, and crappy, fun, and boring.
>
GoBots failed was the lack of variety in sizes. Sure they some deluxe
GoBots,
but the must common was the minis. And on top of that we got the designs. I
believe that with the proper "treatment" some of them could pass as
Transformers. And please don't feel offended. I just cannot help it. My
loyalty is with TFs, but I still like some GoBots.
>Everyone's gonna like what they like, and I'm glad you voiced your opinion.
>
I'm happy about that. There's been a flood of bad feelings in this NG
lately,
and that makes me sad.
>>>Instead let us talk about how to keep the fandom alive.>>
>Amen, my friend.
>Straight-Edge (Now Trademarked by Lanard Toys)
JMR
PS:
Like it or not, here's list of favorite GoBots:
GUARDIANS:
Leader 1
Turbo
Blaster
Pathfinder
Rest-Q
Scratch
Heat Seeker
Scooter (Hound's "son"?)
Royal T
Road Ranger
Defendor (Kick ass!!)
Sparky
RENEGADES:
CyKill
Fitor
Buggyman
Screwhead
Craher (female fatale!)
Blockhead
Tank
Spoons
Spoiler
Zero
Geeper-Creeper
Tux (his hat looks cool ^_^)
Stinger
Twin Spin
Bad Boy
Coptur
The Puzzler team
Thruster (Renegade base)
Túrin
>
> Túrin wrote:
>
> >How can you say there were no die-hard G1 fans?
>
> I got the impression Ari X meant that there were no die-hard G1 fans back in
To which I agreed. But then he said there were no die-hard G1 fans by
the time of the movie, which is clearly wrong.
> Zobovor, whose brain is wired to remember what grade he was in, but rarely how
> old he was or what year it was. Suffice to say, my memory gets way spotty
> after I got out of school. :)
Same here. Fortunely my birthday was always within a week of when
school started, so that makes it easier.
Ari X
>snip<
Here is my point, which has kind of gotten muddled by orther things:
People are saying that BW and BM (especially BM nowadays) are destroying
Transformers and everything they stand for. But if we look back to that
great year of 1986, we see that the movie screwed as many things up as
BM or BW ever will. But we (generally) accept the movie and move on.
No one (to my knowledge) says that the movie is part of a different
canon, that the Matrix (which really is the ultimate retcon if you think
about it) doesn't exist in _their_ continuity, and so on and so forth.
Of course there were hard-core fans when TF:TM came out, it would be
stupid to say there weren't. So why doesn't TF:TM stick in people's
craws the way BM does? Nostalgia, the fact that most people were maybe
8 when it came out, and the average fan wasn't a die-hard. Does this
make any sense to anyone?
Oh, and I, on behalf of ATT, accept your apology ;)
Ari X
>
> Ari X wrote:
>
> >People are saying that BW and BM (especially BM nowadays) are
> >destroying Transformers and everything they stand for. But if we
> >look back to that great year of 1986, we see that the movie screwed
> >as many things up as BM or BW ever will. But we (generally)
> >accept the movie and move on.
>
> problem with the movie fudging up the continuity. You probably know a lot of
> fans who weren't bothered by it either. But when you use the general "we" to
> encompass other Transfans, you are describing folks like Túrin inaccurately,
> since he does not count himself among those who just accepts the movie and
> moves on.
>
Thus my parenthetical generally, to my knowledge, etc. Perhaps this
wasn't claer enough.
> >No one (to my knowledge) says that the movie is part of a different
> >canon, that the Matrix (which really is the ultimate retcon if you
> >think about it) doesn't exist in _their_ continuity, and so on and so
> >forth.
>
> Ask Raksha about this some time. :)
I know Raksha contends that Galvatron and Megtaron are seperate beings,
but I've never heard her suggest a seperate (carton) continuity that
didn't include the movie...
>
> >Of course there were hard-core fans when TF:TM came out, it would
> >be stupid to say there weren't. So why doesn't TF:TM stick in
> >people's craws the way BM does? Nostalgia, the fact that most
> >people were maybe 8 when it came out, and the average fan wasn't
> >a die-hard. Does this make any sense to anyone?
>
> I get what you're saying, but you're operating on a flawed premise. I was nine
> years old when the movie came out, so I was still fairly young and
> impressionable. But I have no doubt in my mind that there were fans who were
> already adults when the movie came out. Obviously, they won't be looking back
> on the movie as though it was part of their childhood. That would be as absurd
> as saying that you can't be a BW or BM fan unless you were old enough to watch
> G1 as a kid. (If anything, it would be the other way around...)
Maybe I _am_ operating under a flawed premise. So why is that nobody
(that I've ever heard) insists that TF:TM takes place in a different
canon and that the movie "destroyed what Transformers stand for", when
the movie pulled just as much crap as BM has? I posit (is that a word?)
that if the established fandom was around whne the movie came out,
everyone would be massively pissed off. The show is shot 20 years into
the future, the most popular characters are all killed off, the plot
revolves around an object previously non-existant, TFs stop looking like
actual vehicles and began to look like futuristic or non-existant
vehicles, and so forth.
> Zobovor, who still can't figure out how to lock Iguanus' hips in robot mode.
> Thanks anyway, Bespinrunt. :)
Mine snap right into place, if I can remember correctly...
Zobovor
>People are saying that BW and BM (especially BM nowadays) are
>destroying Transformers and everything they stand for. But if we
>look back to that great year of 1986, we see that the movie screwed
>as many things up as BM or BW ever will. But we (generally)
>accept the movie and move on.
I think this is where the problem comes in. Obviously, you don't have a
problem with the movie fudging up the continuity. You probably know a lot of
fans who weren't bothered by it either. But when you use the general "we" to
encompass other Transfans, you are describing folks like Túrin inaccurately,
since he does not count himself among those who just accepts the movie and
moves on.
>No one (to my knowledge) says that the movie is part of a different
>canon, that the Matrix (which really is the ultimate retcon if you
>think about it) doesn't exist in _their_ continuity, and so on and so
>forth.
Ask Raksha about this some time. :)
>Of course there were hard-core fans when TF:TM came out, it would
>be stupid to say there weren't. So why doesn't TF:TM stick in
>people's craws the way BM does? Nostalgia, the fact that most
>people were maybe 8 when it came out, and the average fan wasn't
>a die-hard. Does this make any sense to anyone?
I get what you're saying, but you're operating on a flawed premise. I was nine
years old when the movie came out, so I was still fairly young and
impressionable. But I have no doubt in my mind that there were fans who were
already adults when the movie came out. Obviously, they won't be looking back
on the movie as though it was part of their childhood. That would be as absurd
as saying that you can't be a BW or BM fan unless you were old enough to watch
G1 as a kid. (If anything, it would be the other way around...)
Robert Powers
On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:43:18 -0500, Ari X <Ar...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Well obviously when it *first* came out there coulnd't be die-hard fans,
>> but by the time of the movie there certainly were, and a lot of folks
>> got very ticked off at the lousy stuff that happened in the movie.
>
>Really? I find that hard to believe.
the theater mostly oblivious to the new characters who had starred; all I
could really think of was "My god... Prowl's dead. Ratchet's dead.
Wheeljack's dead. Even Prime, Megatron, Starscream, and Ironhide
(probably the 4 biggest stars of the first two seasons) are dead!" I
didn't quite have the words to articulate it at the time, but I felt that
the TF story had been changed forever, and not for the better. I kept
watching and enjoying the show, but all the while I thought it sucked that
the old characters were gone.
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@shell.faradic.net
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6754 _____________________
| I think of death - it must be killing me... -- the Wallflowers |
| The doctor warned me I might catch a death. -- the Band |
|__________________________________________________________________|
HooksX
> I was in sixth grade when teh movie came out. I left
>the theater mostly oblivious to the new characters who had starred; all I
>could really think of was "My god... Prowl's dead. Ratchet's dead.
>Wheeljack's dead. Even Prime, Megatron, Starscream, and Ironhide
>(probably the 4 biggest stars of the first two seasons) are dead!" I
>didn't quite have the words to articulate it at the time, but I felt that
>the TF story had been changed forever, and not for the better. I kept
>watching and enjoying the show, but all the while I thought it sucked that
>the old characters were gone.
Heh, s'funny, I had the *absolute opposite* reaction after seeing Transformers
the Movie. In fact, I thought it sucked that they didn't show any more of the
characters die, or show at least some of the bodies being carried out.
I used to love watching TF:TM over and over again. I loved seeing the old guard
pass on in a most brutal manner. While I wished that some of the survivors
(Jazz, Cliffjumper, et al) got more screen time after the movie, the deaths
didn't bother me too much. I just wanted *more*.
Oh, and I loved the third season. More science-ficcy, less kidviddy.
(X)
Robert Powers
On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 23:03:37 -0500, Ari X <Ar...@aol.com> wrote:
>I know Raksha contends that Galvatron and Megtaron are seperate beings,
>but I've never heard her suggest a seperate (carton) continuity that
>didn't include the movie...
IIRC, she regards the Movie and post-Movie cartoons as a separate,
semi-parallel universe from the pre-Movie cartoons. Thouhg her motivation
is probably her strong dislike of the fates of many of her favorite
characters, she backes her position up with a number of good points (most
prominently, why was this all-important Matrix never seen or mentioned
before the Movie?)
>Maybe I _am_ operating under a flawed premise. So why is that nobody
>(that I've ever heard) insists that TF:TM takes place in a different
>canon and that the movie "destroyed what Transformers stand for", when
>the movie pulled just as much crap as BM has? I posit (is that a word?)
Because the Movie is old hat, while BM is brand-new and just coming
out... we're all seeing it right now for the first time.
But... after seeing the Movie for the first time in many years at
BotCon '98, I was compelled to rag on it -- a lot. The essay I posted
(http://members.tripod.com/repowers/manic/s-movie.html) generated a fair
bit of agreement (and some disagreement, but none that struck me as much
beyond the level of "No way, D00d!! It was kewl, 'cause it had Galvatron
and Unicron in it!") And I hardly even touched on how poorly the older
characters were treated... this was summer '98, if you want to look it up
on Deja.com.
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@netaxs.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6754
| SONG CURRENTLY IN MY HEAD: |
| "No Mermaid" by Shenaid Lohen |
|_______________________________|
Zobovor
>Maybe I _am_ operating under a flawed premise. So why is that
>nobody (that I've ever heard) insists that TF:TM takes place in a
>different canon and that the movie "destroyed what Transformers
>stand for", when the movie pulled just as much crap as BM has?
I'm probably going to get flamed just for mentioning Raksha at all, but she's
the best example I can think of to prove this point. She does, in fact,
consider the movie and subsequent episodes to take place in an alternate
universe. IIRC, she feels that some characters (especially Megatron and
Soundwave) acted so drastically out of character that they *cannot* be the same
characters from the 1984-85 stories.
>I posit (is that a word?) that if the established fandom was around
>whne the movie came out, everyone would be massively pissed off.
>The show is shot 20 years into the future, the most popular
>characters are all killed off, the plot revolves around an object
>previously non-existant, TFs stop looking like actual vehicles and
>began to look like futuristic or non-existant vehicles, and so forth.
I think that if the movie came out *today,* and all that we previously knew
about the Transformers was the first and second season... then yes, it would
probably tick off a lot of the longtime-fans. I also think that the majority
of people who are G1 fans today were still young enough that the third season
is just as much "Transformers" as the previous episodes, despite the radically
changed premises and changes to the toys (which are far inferior to the
Diaclone designs, at least in my opinion). The difference between the
introduction of the movie and the advent of BW/BM is, well, a difference of ten
years. All the kids who grew up on G1 were adults when BW came out.
Meanwhile, all the kids that grew up on BW are probably looking at the G1-only
fans the way I look at those old fogies who say that The Next Generation isn't
"Star Trek." <g>
Zobovor
> But... after seeing the Movie for the first time in many years at
>BotCon '98, I was compelled to rag on it -- a lot.
>
>(http://members.tripod.com/repowers/manic/s-movie.html)
<reads essay and coughs politely>
Maybe it's not TF:TM that sucks. Maybe YOU suck.
Kidding, folks, only kidding. Seriously, you raise a number of good points,
but what really bugs me more than anything else is the writer, Ron Friedman,
basically recycling the *entire* plot for G.I. Joe the Movie. I, too, have a
URL to share, and it includes a few brief comparisons between the two films (as
well as direct correlations with Star Wars):
http://members.aol.com/zobovor/moviebloop.html#comparison
One parallel I did not mention was the trial of Hot Rod and Kup vs. the trial
of COBRA Commander. (Ron seems to have some predilection for bizarre courtroom
drama.)
I don't have a significant problem with either of the two films by themselves,
but to recycle so many elements just smacks of extreme unoriginality. I am
very vocal about my diametrically opposed respect and disgust for the writer
David Wise, who has recycled entire episodes on at least three or four
occasions. I've heard it said that there are really only seven stories to tell
in this world, but that's getting ridiculous. :)
One complain you had that I'd like to address was not getting to know the
Autobots on the shuttle before they got blown away. (I'd quote bits here, but
I'd probably get lynched for it...) I again draw a comparison to G.I. Joe the
Movie--in this case, the serious injuries of Alpine, Bazooka, and Gung-Ho at
the hands of Nemesis Enforcer. Now, I'm not a huge G.I. Joe fan (I mainly like
the movie) so I don't know anything about the above three characters, really.
But I know they're good guys who got hurt in the line of duty, and that's what
counts here for the purposes of the story.
In Transformers: the Movie, we don't need to have a complete rundown on the
Life of Brawn (that's a Monty Python joke, folks) to appreciate his death.
Again, we've got a group of good guys who defended their cause to the death,
and that's admirable. Questions like "What will become of Chromia?" and "does
this mean First Aid get's Ratchet's job?" will probably occur to fans of the
series, but they don't have any relevance to the movie.
You also have to consider the fact that while most movies can function as
stand-alone stories, one invariably enjoys it more (or at least understands it
better) when you've seen the series it's based on. Star Trek: Generations was
written to be a stand-alone; you don't *have* to know what Klingons are or who
Data is, but it helps. Otherwise, you've got some big guy with a funky
forehead, and a robot who decided to change his personality after he pushed the
chick in the water but nobody got the joke. Obviously it's a bit more complex
than that. (Of course, Generations also sucked, so it's a moot point.)
Besides, how can you not like the movie? It had Galvatron in it! And
UNICRON!! <g>
Ari X
> Ari X wrote:
> >whne the movie came out, everyone would be massively pissed off.
> >The show is shot 20 years into the future, the most popular
> >characters are all killed off, the plot revolves around an object
> >previously non-existant, TFs stop looking like actual vehicles and
> >began to look like futuristic or non-existant vehicles, and so forth.
>
> I think that if the movie came out *today,* and all that we previously knew
> about the Transformers was the first and second season... then yes, it would
> probably tick off a lot of the longtime-fans. I also think that the majority
> of people who are G1 fans today were still young enough that the third season
> is just as much "Transformers" as the previous episodes, despite the radically
> changed premises and changes to the toys (which are far inferior to the
> Diaclone designs, at least in my opinion). The difference between the
> introduction of the movie and the advent of BW/BM is, well, a difference of ten
> years. All the kids who grew up on G1 were adults when BW came out.
> Meanwhile, all the kids that grew up on BW are probably looking at the G1-only
> fans the way I look at those old fogies who say that The Next Generation isn't
> "Star Trek." <g>
Ah ha! Yes! This is my point! We need to be more careful before
blasting BM for ruining/changing Transformers, because a similar thing
happened with TF:TM/Season 3. So take a chill pill, boys and
girls...everything is gonna be alright.
Túrin
> >Maybe I _am_ operating under a flawed premise. So why is that nobody
> >(that I've ever heard) insists that TF:TM takes place in a different
> >canon and that the movie "destroyed what Transformers stand for", when
>
> Because the Movie is old hat, while BM is brand-new and just coming
> out... we're all seeing it right now for the first time.
Yeah!
> But... after seeing the Movie for the first time in many years at
> BotCon '98, I was compelled to rag on it -- a lot. The essay I posted
> (http://members.tripod.com/repowers/manic/s-movie.html) generated a fair
> bit of agreement (and some disagreement, but none that struck me as much
> beyond the level of "No way, D00d!! It was kewl, 'cause it had Galvatron
> and Unicron in it!") And I hardly even touched on how poorly the older
> characters were treated... this was summer '98, if you want to look it up
> on Deja.com.
You know, when I started searching the net for TF stuff, before I found
ATT, your site was one of the first I checked out, and that was one of
the first essays I read.
M Sipher
> Robert Powers wrote:
>
> > But... after seeing the Movie for the first time in many years at
> >BotCon '98, I was compelled to rag on it -- a lot.
> >
> >(http://members.tripod.com/repowers/manic/s-movie.html)
>
> <reads essay and coughs politely>
>
> Maybe it's not TF:TM that sucks. Maybe YOU suck.
No, Nightscream sucks. Literally.
> Kidding, folks, only kidding. Seriously, you raise a number of good
points,
> but what really bugs me more than anything else is the writer, Ron
Friedman,
> basically recycling the *entire* plot for G.I. Joe the Movie. I, too,
have a
> URL to share, and it includes a few brief comparisons between the two
films (as
> well as direct correlations with Star Wars):
>
> http://members.aol.com/zobovor/moviebloop.html#comparison
Creepy. And Grimlock does have a certain Chewbacca quality to him...
> One parallel I did not mention was the trial of Hot Rod and Kup vs. the
trial
> of COBRA Commander. (Ron seems to have some predilection for bizarre
courtroom
> drama.)
There was a trial? I thought Golobulus just went "you suck" and tossed the
spore in his face.
> I don't have a significant problem with either of the two films by
themselves,
Eh. the only reason I feel compelled to catch the Joe movie is for the
opening titles, and some of the latter fight scenes, especially in the
Terror Drome.
And to see Cobra guys get shot and not get up again.
> I am
> very vocal about my diametrically opposed respect and disgust for the
writer
> David Wise, who has recycled entire episodes on at least three or four
> occasions. I've heard it said that there are really only seven stories to
tell
> in this world, but that's getting ridiculous. :)
Erm... Kremzeek, I assume? Followed by the pizza monsters in TMNT, then
another energy critter in (shudder) Mighty Ducks?
M "What Kills ME About Mighty Ducks Was That WB Thought They Actually Had To
Come Up With A Counter-Cartoon For It... Who Thought 'Road Rovers' Was A
Good Idea?" Sipher
or
M "Okay, It Had Morrigan Aensland's Voice Actress In It, But Still" Sipher
Darwinian Road Kill
: Gee, and you claimed Neale of trying to do the guilt trip crap when he gave his
: "I'm leaving for a while" message? Goodbye twit, don't let Starscream slap you
: on the ass on the way out . . .
Starscream: "I AM NOT GAY!!!!"
Ryan :P
--
G1 Forever!
My half-baked site: www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/8720
TF code: AD/A OP/Q P212
Zobovor
>> I am very vocal about my diametrically opposed respect and
>> disgust for writer David Wise, who has recycled entire episodes
>> on at least three or four occasions. I've heard it said that there
>> are really only seven stories to tell in this world, but that's getting >>
ridiculous. :)
>
>Erm... Kremzeek, I assume? Followed by the pizza monsters in
>TMNT, then another energy critter in (shudder) Mighty Ducks?
"Kremzeek!" was one, yes. The story was re-used in a TMNT episode, but not the
one with the pizza monsters. It was an episode called "The Big Zipp Attack"
and featured a cute little pink monster that duplicated when he ate copper...
or chocolate... or something like that. Donatello merged them all back
together into one critter, who of course was gigantic. And in the end, when
they thought they got rid of the critters, another one popped out of Leonardo's
sword sheath so we get the "here we go again" ending. The exact same story was
used in an episode of The Real Ghostbusters, which I assume was written by the
same guy since it utilized all the signature elements. I don't watch Mighty
Ducks, but I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up again.
"The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" was another. The script was rehashed and
turned into TMNT's "Poor Little Rich Turtle," in which Michaelangelo falls for
some spoiled, wealthy girl who's got some energy formula Krang wants. They go
to a carnival while the Turtles are busy warning her it's too dangerous, then
she gets captured and Krang tries to extract some formula from her mind. Even
the line about "you guys haven't offered me so much as a cheeseburger" is
intact. Pa-theh-teeeque...
Zobovor, who's all for recycling, but this dude takes it to extremes...
M Sipher
> M Sipher wrote:
>
> >> I am very vocal about my diametrically opposed respect and
> >> disgust for writer David Wise, who has recycled entire episodes
> >> on at least three or four occasions. I've heard it said that there
> >> are really only seven stories to tell in this world, but that's getting
>>
> ridiculous. :)
> >
> >Erm... Kremzeek, I assume? Followed by the pizza monsters in
> >TMNT, then another energy critter in (shudder) Mighty Ducks?
>
> "Kremzeek!" was one, yes. The story was re-used in a TMNT episode, but
not the
> one with the pizza monsters.
Oh. I never really watched TMNT, so...
> It was an episode called "The Big Zipp Attack"
> and featured a cute little pink monster that duplicated when he ate
copper...
> or chocolate... or something like that. Donatello merged them all back
> together into one critter, who of course was gigantic. And in the end,
when
> they thought they got rid of the critters, another one popped out of
Leonardo's
> sword sheath so we get the "here we go again" ending.
Ha ha. Oh, the hilarity.
> The exact same story was
> used in an episode of The Real Ghostbusters, which I assume was written by
the
> same guy since it utilized all the signature elements.
Boy, the early eps of tha were really good, weren't they? Seriously. I'm
also finding myself liking the MEN IN BLACK cartoon... it has that same
vibe...
> I don't watch Mighty
> Ducks, but I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up again.
It did. It was the first and only episode I've seen ,wholly by accident.
FOUR instances.
> "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" was another. The script was rehashed and
> turned into TMNT's "Poor Little Rich Turtle," in which Michaelangelo falls
for
> some spoiled, wealthy girl who's got some energy formula Krang wants.
They go
> to a carnival while the Turtles are busy warning her it's too dangerous,
then
> she gets captured and Krang tries to extract some formula from her mind.
Even
> the line about "you guys haven't offered me so much as a cheeseburger" is
> intact. Pa-theh-teeeque...
It's been so long since I've seen the TF ep in question, I can't comment,
really...
Though I do have a RockMan fanfic idea that kinda runs along those lines...
but it's only money Wily wants from the gal who's smitten with Blues... a
great big lot of ransom money.
If you want, I'll write up a quick synopsis, email it to you, and you can
tell me how close I am to the "Powerglide" script...
> Zobovor, who's all for recycling, but this dude takes it to extremes...
On that note, I find it interesting that both G1 and BW started with a
starship battle, with both ships crashing to Earth... I'm thinking that
maybe BMach should have started with the crashing of the Autobot shuttle. A
few minutes before "Reformatting" actually started... which would have freed
up a lot of time later in the series to tel more actual STORY...
M "Catching Up To The Present... Thank You, Mr. Powers..." Sipher
Pluto (M)
No Porn Please wrote in message
<19991223213739...@ng-cp1.aol.com>...
>Like I said...somebody has been doin 2 much smokin b/c I haven't commented
on
>either situation......Ur thinkin of someone else bud.
>
>>
>>Um....this is from the guy who
>>A) Said an episode guide was false...when it turned out to be true.
>>B) Said Waspinator wasn't coming back.
>>
>>So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
>>
>>
>>
>>The One and Only: Neo J. Menasor
>>Ronin Warriors fan No.8492
>>Supreme Commander of the Flying Grape Tree
>>Follower of Dreadite-sama
>>Lord of the Dance.
>>Sage of the Saxophone
>>The Covenent of Primus, it's a COOKBOOK!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>>
>>Um....this is from the guy who
>>A) Said an episode guide was false...when it turned out to be true.
>>B) Said Waspinator wasn't coming back.
>>
>>So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
>>
>>
>>
>>The One and Only: Neo J. Menasor
>>Ronin Warriors fan No.8492
>>Supreme Commander of the Flying Grape Tree
>>Follower of Dreadite-sama
>>Lord of the Dance.
>>Sage of the Saxophone
>>The Covenent of Primus, it's a COOKBOOK!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Zobovor
>If you want, I'll write up a quick synopsis, email it to you, and you
>can tell me how close I am to the "Powerglide" script...
Sure, I could use a good laugh.
I'm just playing with you, Sipher. All in good fun. By all means, send it my
way. :)
>On that note, I find it interesting that both G1 and BW started with a
>starship battle, with both ships crashing to Earth... I'm thinking that
>maybe BMach should have started with the crashing of the Autobot
>shuttle. A few minutes before "Reformatting" actually started... >which would
have freed up a lot of time later in the series to tell
>more actual STORY...
I don't think I ever came right out and asked Larry or Bob, but I always
assumed that was an homage to the original series. And I'm sure Skir would be
the first to point out that a *technological* shuttle crash wouldn't have
worked for his show, thematically speaking. Sheesh.
And speaking of the first episode of BM, could someone please explain exactly
what it was that they showed at BotCon in lieu of the theme song? Am I to
gather it was just a CGI version of the Flippy Symbol?
ZobTrivia (12/28): Which event in the cartoon universe took place in 1993?
(12/25): There were five G1 episodes with snow--"More Than Meets the Eye" part
1; "Fire in the Sky"; "Fire on the Mountain"; "Blaster Blues"; and "The Face of
the Nijika."
Robert Powers
On 27 Dec 1999 19:27:41 GMT, Zobovor <zob...@aol.com> wrote:
>very vocal about my diametrically opposed respect and disgust for the writer
>David Wise, who has recycled entire episodes on at least three or four
>occasions.
On that note... something I've commented on before, but that always
seems to get lost in the shuffle... the first few minutes of "Dark
Awakening" are almost verbatem lifted from an episode of SUPERFRIENDS,
right down to Spike's "It's the size of... Manhattan!" Of course, the
Superfriends ep was lame and silly after that, whereas DA is pretty cool
and ominous and spooky...
>In Transformers: the Movie, we don't need to have a complete rundown on the
>Life of Brawn (that's a Monty Python joke, folks) to appreciate his death.
>Again, we've got a group of good guys who defended their cause to the death,
>and that's admirable.
See, I only see that in Prime's death, and *maybe* Ironhide. The others
just got slaughtered after fighting ineffectually. Having those
characters die -- THOSE particular characters, as opposed to some other
characters or some generic no-name Autobots -- did nothing to really
advance the plot. And as a death, well, it pretty much sucked. BANG!!
You're dead. Hell, Ratchet and Prowl didn't even get to SAY anything.
Or, quoting from one of my followups from when I posted the essay in
question:
-----------
My favorite analogy is this: What if O'Brien or Checkov or Sulu had been
shot with a phaser and died without a word in one of the Star Trek movies?
Non-ST fans wouldn't know or care if it was them or some nameless red
shirt; ST fans would be angry that an established character was offed for
no reason. In ST: Generations, two recurring Klingon characters are
killed off, but they get a lot of screen time before it happens. They die
trying to carry out a plan they believe in. They die as Klingons wish to,
in glorious battle. And they die as a direct result of their own
underhanded scheming. In story terms, it is a good death; it has relevance
to both the plot and the characters.
-----------
I wouldn't have minded Prowl dying so much if it were during the
execution of some desperate strategy he'd come up with that bought the
Autobots enough time for Prime to arrive and save the day, or if Brawn
went down fighting after beating the tar out of a dozen 'cons, or if
Ratchet were mortally wounded while saving lives out on the battlefield...
but to just line 'em up and slaughter them like cattle? It's poor
storytelling. Perhaps it's "realistic"**, but it's also gratuitiously
violent, violence soley for its own sake. I can get that in real life,
thank you very much. I don't find it *entertaining*; it's only
*compelling* by the weight of its sheer frustration factor; it's not at
all morally *instructive*; and the only reason it got me *emotionally* is
because of the attachment I had to the characters from the cartoon. If
it's not any of those things, what was the point of the deaths? The only
real reason Prowl died was that his toy was no longer in production....
** On the subject of "realism" and people complaining that TFs are
always shooting but never getting hurt... well, it's 'cause they're alien
robots. They're made of circuits and other mechanical-type,
easily-repairable parts. They're tough. It takes a LOT to kill them --
we'd seen that time and again, up until the movie. This is, after all, a
war that's essentially had a 4 million year stalemate.
--
Robert Powers of the Ever-Changing .sig
repo...@netaxs.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6754____________________________
| SONG CURRENTLY IN MY HEAD: |
| "Dead and Gone" by Gypsy -- which I found today, in a store, used, for |
| SIX DOLLARS, as I was on the verge of mail ordering it for 20!! And |
|_ this in a town where probably 5 people have actually HEARD of them... |
M Sipher
> M Sipher wrote:
>
> >If you want, I'll write up a quick synopsis, email it to you, and you
> >can tell me how close I am to the "Powerglide" script...
>
> Sure, I could use a good laugh.
>
> I'm just playing with you, Sipher. All in good fun. By all means, send
it my
> way. :)
Where's that email viru- no, not virus! Er... greeting card! Yeah!
> >On that note, I find it interesting that both G1 and BW started with a
> >starship battle, with both ships crashing to Earth... I'm thinking that
> >maybe BMach should have started with the crashing of the Autobot
> >shuttle. A few minutes before "Reformatting" actually started... >which
would
> have freed up a lot of time later in the series to tell
> >more actual STORY...
>
> I don't think I ever came right out and asked Larry or Bob, but I always
> assumed that was an homage to the original series.
Between that and Simon Furman doing the penning of the final installments of
both comics and BW...
> And I'm sure Skir would be
> the first to point out that a *technological* shuttle crash wouldn't have
> worked for his show, thematically speaking. Sheesh.
(Raises eyebrow)
Okay... I'm just saying that since all the flashbacks we've had have really
done little more than put visuals to events we already knew about from
episode 1, that showing us those events at the start would have freed up the
later time so we could actually get some answers to this whole "how the hell
did Megatron get in charge?" thing.
> And speaking of the first episode of BM, could someone please explain
exactly
> what it was that they showed at BotCon in lieu of the theme song? Am I to
> gather it was just a CGI version of the Flippy Symbol?
Actually, there was nothing. It just opened right up into the first frame...
Though there was a promo at the end... some random scenes tossed together
tothat super-dull theme music.
M "Too Many Shortcuts For My Tastes..." Sipher
Thylacine 2000
M Sipher wrote:
> [TFTM compared to GIJTM]
> > One parallel I did not mention was the trial of Hot Rod and Kup vs. the
> trial
> > of COBRA Commander. (Ron seems to have some predilection for bizarre
> courtroom
> > drama.)
>
> There was a trial? I thought Golobulus just went "you suck" and tossed the
> spore in his face.
There was a trial--we just never saw it. Cobra Commander got stuck up in that
giant clam-tree for a while, and then Golobulus looked up at him and announced
it was time for his punishment.
"Punishment? What about my trial?!?"
"It's over! And the verdict is 'guilty.' Guilty, of the one unforgivable
crime--failure!"
Then the whole spore-mutate-snaky-snaky-aiieee-once-a-maaaannnn stuff.
> > I don't have a significant problem with either of the two films by
> themselves,
>
> Eh. the only reason I feel compelled to catch the Joe movie is for the
> opening titles, and some of the latter fight scenes, especially in the
> Terror Drome.
>
> And to see Cobra guys get shot and not get up again.
I like it for the fight sequences, Cobra's political structure and background,
and Serpentor brutalizing/murdering about six characters on-screen. I seem to
recall fastforwarding through all the filler space featuring dialogue, Sgt.
Slaughter, Falcon, and the Joes winning.
TTT, and it was possibly the only movie that had the Sarge, Don Johnson, and
Burgess Meredith providing voice talent....
--
T T T
Random Cartoon Quote of the Day (from memory!):
"All wrapped up with no place to go--compliments of Mercury!"
--Mercury, "Herculoids"
Zobovor
> On that note... something I've commented on before, but that
>always seems to get lost in the shuffle... the first few minutes of
>"Dark Awakening" are almost verbatem lifted from an episode of
>SUPERFRIENDS, right down to Spike's "It's the size of...
>Manhattan!" Of course, the Superfriends ep was lame and silly after
>that, whereas DA is pretty cool and ominous and spooky...
Did you happen to catch whether the Superfriends episode was also written by
Antoni Zalewski? If not, it might just have been one of those size-reference
stereotypes. Y'know, like the way tumors are always describes as being the
size of a grapefruit...
(And isn't it a bit redundant, describing an episode of Superfriends as lame
and silly? <g>)
> See, I only see that in Prime's death, and *maybe* Ironhide. The >others
just got slaughtered after fighting ineffectually. Having those
>characters die -- THOSE particular characters, as opposed to some >other
characters or some generic no-name Autobots -- did nothing
>to really advance the plot. And as a death, well, it pretty much >sucked.
BANG!! You're dead.
Yeah, but it's like you said--it's more realistic. It's not at *all* realistic
for Prime to send a bunch of no-name Autobots on the shuttle run, only to get
blown away. We'd be sitting here complaining that the only reason Mudflap and
Windshield existed was to get killed. <g>
It's also not at all realistic for *every* Autobot to have a heroic death. The
shuttle crew was caught entirely by surprise; they really didn't have *time* to
do much in the way of heroics. At least Ironhide and Ratchet went out
fighting, right?
As for Wheeljack and Windcharger, do you think anybody would have even
*noticed* that scene if Arcee had been dragging along some generic dead
Autobots? We're supposed to care what's happening to these characters. And
personally, I prefer to know what happened to a character one way or another
(Wheeljack, Huffer, Bluestreak maybe) than to have him disappear, never to be
seen again (Trailbreaker, Smokescreen, Hoist, Skyfire, a ton of others...) I
mean, the characters (read: toys) were gonna get phased out anyway, right?
>Hell, Ratchet and Prowl didn't even get to SAY anything.
Prowl did in the script... does that count? :)
Zobovor... Yeah, here I am, telling the one and only Transmetal 2 duck what's
in the script for the movie. Sheesh.
Cable
>background,
>and Serpentor brutalizing/murdering about six characters on-screen.
Sadly, no one died in the Joe movie. Duke was SUPPOSED to, but they re-did the
dialogue, so that he was merely in a coma. Also explains Docs crappy voice dub
at the end "Duke's guna be OK!"
And it was all changed because of Optimus Prime!
_____
"I don't rock 'n roll! I BURRRN!"
"You...no longer...exist!"
DOWN WITH THIS NEW PRIMAL!
"Sarcasm, not appreciated."
[enter.the.matrix]
http://members.aol.com/icablei/trans.html
ShadowWing
Zobovor wrote in message <19991228142013...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
>Robert Powers wrote:
>
>> See, I only see that in Prime's death, and *maybe* Ironhide. The
>others
>just got slaughtered after fighting ineffectually. Having those
>>characters die -- THOSE particular characters, as opposed to some >other
>characters or some generic no-name Autobots -- did nothing
>>to really advance the plot. And as a death, well, it pretty much >sucked.
>BANG!! You're dead.
>
>Yeah, but it's like you said--it's more realistic. It's not at *all*
realistic
>for Prime to send a bunch of no-name Autobots on the shuttle run, only to
get
>blown away. We'd be sitting here complaining that the only reason Mudflap
and
>Windshield existed was to get killed. <g>
You mean like Kranix and Arbulas(sp?). They even got mentions in TFU and
Arby doesn't even show up in the movie, just 2 scenes in the comic.
("Kranix, wait for me. ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!)
>It's also not at all realistic for *every* Autobot to have a heroic death.
The
>shuttle crew was caught entirely by surprise; they really didn't have
*time* to
>do much in the way of heroics. At least Ironhide and Ratchet went out
>fighting, right?
That's how I look at it as well.
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||ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ|STR: 5.0 |
|| |INT: 8.2 |
|| ||\ /| |SPD: 8.6 |
|| || O | |END: 5.8 |
|| ‡---Ť--- |RNK: 5.0 |
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