Blue Huffer
Cecilia/Windchaser
I got it second hand for them a few years ago.
Is this the same deal as the yellow Cliffjumper
and red Bumblebee?
Cecilia/Windchaser
---------------
"If beauty was a crime I would be in for life"------Windchaser
Email: windc...@telia.com
WWW: http://members.xoom.com/TFWindchaser
TfCode:G++ FR+ FW+ M #145 D++ AD++ N++ W++ B++ OQP BC+ CN++ OM P210
GodGinrai
I HAD a blue Huffer with white torso.. and I've traded him for a
mint complete Jetfire and a regular Huffer(well.. I was forced
actually.. thanks to Devvi :)
The name Devvi and I gave to him was "Klaas"
But just forget about that..
There's also a Huffer with blue torso (I know Jeroen Zuiderwijk
has a pic of it.. forgot his site though)
Though my blue Huffer didn't have Hasbro or Takara trademarked
on it... It DID have the rub symbol and a little Autobot symbol.
But other then all this, there's not much else.. I believe this
one is pretty rare, since not a lot of people know about him..
but I don't know about the value..
Ah well.. that's pretty much it
Greetingz, Jasper "GodGinrai" vd Brink
Tales Of Cybertron, TF-Encyclopedia, TF-Babes, TF-references and MUCH more:
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Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>Though my blue Huffer didn't have Hasbro or Takara trademarked
>on it... It DID have the rub symbol and a little Autobot symbol.
>But other then all this, there's not much else.. I believe this
>one is pretty rare, since not a lot of people know about him..
It's from... I want to say Singapore? There was also an orange Bumblebee, a
blue Windcharger (yellow one, too), a white Cliffjumper.
Could I see pics of your Huffer? I've never laid eyes on this one before.
Zobovor... just make sure it's not Pipes, or his head will be on backwards. :)
ZobTrivia (4/1): What is the one thing Galvatron, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Kermit
the Frog have in common?
(3/31): Motormaster, Octane, Red Hot, and Transmetal Megatron are all toys with
fake wheels.
Dark Design
why the hell didnt you call it Sjaak or Jaap!
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"GodGinrai" <tryp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09cfc9ef...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com...
> yup.. and it seems you have 2 variations of them..
> I HAD a blue Huffer with white torso.. and I've traded him for a
> mint complete Jetfire and a regular Huffer(well.. I was forced
> actually.. thanks to Devvi :)
> The name Devvi and I gave to him was "Klaas"
> But just forget about that..
> There's also a Huffer with blue torso (I know Jeroen Zuiderwijk
> has a pic of it.. forgot his site though)
>
> Though my blue Huffer didn't have Hasbro or Takara trademarked
> on it... It DID have the rub symbol and a little Autobot symbol.
> But other then all this, there's not much else.. I believe this
> one is pretty rare, since not a lot of people know about him..
GodGinrai
official owner of "Klaas".. WHY I traded him? well.. because I
needed money actually.. that's why)
his site can be found at
http://www.crosswinds.net/~devvi
and it's somewhere there....
The reason WHY we called him Klaas cause it's because we didn't
knew it was Huffer or Pipes... so we we're discussing that..
eventually it was something like:
"Blue Huffer.. No.. Alter-Transform-Pipes... Puffer.. Hipes...
screw it.. it's KLAAS!.. hehehehe OK :)
And well.. a LOT of variations came from The Netherlands
actually (green Cliffjumper, Yellow Windcharger, this Blue
Huffer.. and the most famous one is the Red Tracks)
Kinda neat actually.. to bad they're not around here anymore
Grady the Big Dummy
>I got it second hand for them a few years ago.
>
>Is this the same deal as the yellow Cliffjumper
>and red Bumblebee?
>
Assuming this isn't an April Fool's joke...that was actually a differet toy
named Pipes.
TV's Grady: The Moonlight Jedi Knight Who Says Ni
"Remember to believe in magic...or I'll kill you!" -Crow T. Robot
http://www.crosswinds.net/~redeagle2/
Fortress X
>
>My brothers has one.
>I got it second hand for them a few years ago.
>
>Is this the same deal as the yellow Cliffjumper
>and red Bumblebee?
>
line. To my knowledge there was never a blue Microman Huffer produced. There
was however a company in Mexico which made Transformers under license from
Hasbro, which included all kinds of weird color variations, like a blue
Cliffjumper, a blue Bumblebee, a yellow Windcharger etc. In the Netherlands we
received a large number of these Mexican produced Transformers. There is a good
chance that your blue Huffer is one of these Mexican variations.
In the toy picture section of my Transformer page (see sig) I have several
Mexican and other weird variations (including your blue Huffer, of which I
received pictures via via, from Lars Eriksson).
--
Jeroen "Fortress X" Zuiderwijk
jer...@caiw.nl
The Pre Transformer Page:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
Jeroen's Transformer Page:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/pratchett/170/mytfpage.html
Jeroen's Homepage:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx/mypage
Durandal
GodGinrai wrote:
>
> yup.. and it seems you have 2 variations of them..
> I HAD a blue Huffer with white torso.. and I've traded him for a
> mint complete Jetfire and a regular Huffer(well.. I was forced
> actually.. thanks to Devvi :)
> The name Devvi and I gave to him was "Klaas"
> But just forget about that..
> There's also a Huffer with blue torso (I know Jeroen Zuiderwijk
> has a pic of it.. forgot his site though)
>
> Though my blue Huffer didn't have Hasbro or Takara trademarked
> on it... It DID have the rub symbol and a little Autobot symbol.
> But other then all this, there's not much else.. I believe this
> one is pretty rare, since not a lot of people know about him..
> but I don't know about the value..
> Ah well.. that's pretty much it
The Blue Huffer is named "Pipes" and is NOT rare.
...but if I can trade mine for someone's mint Jetfire, let me know!
-Durandal
http://www.adequate.com/transformers/
Ranma 1449
:^)
Ranma 1449
also will so be adding the much more common Argentina ones, and perhaps the
also rare Netherlands ones.
GodGinrai
>
>The Blue Huffer is named "Pipes" and is NOT rare.
>
know!
>
No dude.. I'm NOT an idiot.. I can tell the differences between
a Pipes and a blue Huffer..
as a proof here's a pic from Devvi who now owns my BLUE HUFFER
(NO April fool!!)
http://www.crosswinds.net/~devvi/dutchminicars.html
that's the one..
eat your hearts out
Ranma 1449
produced piece. I guess I'm going to have to post more often on these things.
GodGinrai
"white torso" blue Huffer.. but there's also one with a blue
torso..
Funny :)
Eddie X-Tomb
The red Bumblebee and yellow Cliffjumper were leftovers from the
Microman
> line.
I think you might be wrong about things. Bumblebee was one of my favs as
a kid and I recall having both colors of both him and cliffjumper.
Today, I found a yellow cliffjumper in my house, and it had a "rub"
sticker on it(you gotta hold your finger on it for the autobot or
decepticon symbol to appear). Now, the rub stickers weren't put on all
transformers til year 2, which means that this yellow cliffjumper came
from year 2, which lessens the possibility its just a microman leftover.
-Eddie
GodGinrai
you are correct!
(you didn't won anything.. sorry bout that)
but the red Bumblebee and Yellow Cliffjumper were "official"
Transformers.. though not new characters.. but I myself have a
red BB with rubsymbol and it's confirmed that both were released
as TF.. there somewhat rare, but not too much.. oh well :)
Fortress X
says...
>
>The blue Bumblebee still hasn't been established as one, though it it likely.
>:^)
I've heard enough reports of reliable sources that they were sold in the
Netherlands as part of the Mexican import that we got here. So I don't have any
doubt left that they do exist. Finding them is another story, since
Transformers are almost non-existent in the Netherlands nowadays.
Fortress X
the bottom of his feet)?
Lars Eriksson
>Wasn't the blue Huffer, Pipes?? I'm sure I had him at one point...
Pipes isn't exactly the same toy as Huffer. You can say that Pipes
basically is Huffer "turned around". Huffer's head is located inside
his cab in robot mode; Pipes' head is located on the back of the cab.
The blue Huffer however, is just that - a blue Huffer. And apparently
there are two different versions of him: one who's blue and white, and
one who's entirely blue.
(If you're reading this, Jeroen and GodGinrai, I think you might want
to put up pictures of the real Pipes as well. You both have pictures
of the blue Huffers, but as far as I'm aware there are no pictures of
Pipes on the web to point to.)
-----
Lars Eriksson, grounds...@swipnet.se
Personal home page: http://home.swipnet.se/groundsplitter/
Groundsplitter on IRC
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GodGinrai
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>but the red Bumblebee and Yellow Cliffjumper were "official"
>Transformers.. though not new characters.. but I myself have a
>red BB with rubsymbol and it's confirmed that both were released
>as TF..
I know for sure that the yellow Cliffjumper was sold with a "Listen N' Fun"
tape and story book set around 1985-ish. The red one probably was, too. I
don't know if Bumblebee was included in one of those or not, though.
ZobTrivia (4/2): Who is the only Transformer toy whose insignia is on his
handheld weapon?
(4/1): Galvatron, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Kermit the Frog have all had more than
one actor portray them.
Fortress X
says...
>
>Both say Hasbro and Takara 1980-1984
>
they would have been repackaged Microman toys it would only say Takara, Japan
and nothing else. I don't understand why they would do it and why they would
sell them under the same name.
GodGinrai
>Well, that wasn't exactly how it went GodGinrai. I hope you're
not
>angry. I gave you a choice remember ? Sometimes there are
trades that I
>don't feel 100% good about. This was one of them.
>
>Greetz,
>Devvi
>
hehe.. no sorry.. it was a joke :P
Well, to me this deal wasn't 100% "feeling good" as well... but
there are worse things in life right? I mean, a blue Huffer was
interesting to have.. but you're the one who seemed more
interested, so I guess it's ok. Who knows, maybe I'll find one
somewhere, somehow again :)
we shall see Galvatron... we shall see.....
and for the record: bot my yellow Cliffjumper and Red Bumblebee
(who I painted yellow as a kid, because I wanted an "original
BB.. hehehe) both say AND Takara AND Hasbro..
WHY Hasbro would do this.. well probably because it's an easy
way to make money.. maybe there were kids that wanted a BB
army.. can be right? hmmm.. then you get a red an yellow :P
hmmm... okay
dv...@dds.nl
> (well.. I was forced actually.. thanks to Devvi :)
Well, that wasn't exactly how it went GodGinrai. I hope you're not
angry. I gave you a choice remember ? Sometimes there are trades that I
don't feel 100% good about. This was one of them.
Greetz,
Devvi
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>If they would have been repackaged Microman toys it would only say
>Takara, Japan and nothing else.
I am still *very* skeptical of the notion that Hasbro repackaged old Diaclone
and Microman toys for the Transformers line. As I believe Steve-o has pointed
out before, no one has ever reported buying black versions of Ironhide or
Sunstreakers that looked like police cars. *That's* what the Diaclone toys
looked like. In almost every case, the Diaclone toys didn't exist in the
colors we now associate with the Transformers toys.
I suspect that, more likely than not, Hasbro just acquired the rights to the
toy molds, but didn't make any modifications to the molds during the first run
of the Transformers line, meaning Hasbro's manufacturing trademark was absent.
I don't pretend to know the whys and wherefores, but it seems reasonable that
Hasbro didn't want to waste time retooling molds if it meant not having the
toys out in time for Christmas, which was arguably the line's first big push.
For all we know, part of the reason the rub symbols were instituted was to
reinforce the Transformers trademark on the toys themselves, in addition to
stamping their Hasbro seal of approval on the 1985 re-releases.
Zobovor, who is speculating like mad, but it's fun. :)
ZobTrivia (4/2): Who is the only Autobot toy whose insignia is on his handheld
dv...@dds.nl
red Tracks and the MIB Ratchet with Diaclone packaging. Both can be
seen on my homepage:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~devvi
The Ratchet with Diaclone packaging can also be seen in the "unofficial
guide to Transformers". This proves that at least some Diaclones made
it as Transformers.
Back to the examples you mention, maybe Hasbro thought the differences
were to big (black Ironhide, police Sunstreaker) or maybe there was not
much stock left of those toys. But that is offcourse speculation.
In article <20000402203322...@ng-fj1.aol.com>,
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>That is not exactly true. A few examples from my own collection are
>the red Tracks and the MIB Ratchet with Diaclone packaging. Both can
>be seen on my homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/~devvi
Well, while that does lend credence to the idea that Diaclones were repackaged,
it could also just mean that Hasbro didn't want to waste time casting new
styrofoam inserts when perfectly serviceable inserts existed from the Diaclone
line. Again, I have no doubt that Hasbro cut every corner possible to ensure
the toys were ready by Christmas 1984. Later on, they had the luxury of
machining their own inserts that were tailor-made to the new packaging. They
could have begun stamping their official Hasbro mark on the toys around the
same time.
>The Ratchet with Diaclone packaging can also be seen in the "unofficial
>guide to Transformers". This proves that at least some Diaclones
>made it as Transformers.
Well, I wouldn't be citing "The Unofficial Guide to Transformers" as a
definitive source, since it is notoriously inaccurate in places. :)
>Back to the examples you mention, maybe Hasbro thought the
>differences were to big (black Ironhide, police Sunstreaker) or maybe
>there was not much stock left of those toys. But that is offcourse
>speculation.
Differences bigger than a red Tracks instead of blue, or a yellow Cliffjumper
instead of red? I don't know about that. What with all the weirdnesses Hasbro
was instituting at the time like pulling the Diaclone drivers in the first
place and throwing Bumblejumper into the works, I wouldn't be surprised,
though.
The red Tracks is interesting to me, in fact. He *couldn't* have been just
leftover Diaclone stock, since he was released well after Hasbro began
retooling the molds to include their manufacturing trademark. I've never heard
of any Tracks toys showing up without the Hasbro/Takara markings. I suspect
Hasbro just decided to change his colors early in production. I mean, the
battle scene on the back of the 1985 toys was painted specifically for the
Transformers toy line, wasn't it? While it's *possible* the artist just had a
Diaclone model of Tracks to work from, it seems odd that none of the other
colors were off.
Steve-o, are you reading any of this?
Zobovor... and yes, the red Tracks *was* released as a Transformers toy in the
U.S. I had a next-door neighbor who owned one.
dv...@dds.nl
> it could also just mean that Hasbro didn't want to waste time casting
new
> styrofoam inserts when perfectly serviceable inserts existed from the
Diaclone
> line.
read on...
> Well, I wouldn't be citing "The Unofficial Guide to Transformers" as a
> definitive source, since it is notoriously inaccurate in places. :)
Diaclone inserts. I have the exact same thing. What I mean to say is,
that the Ratchet with Diaclone inserts isn't just something a collector
thought of, therefore evidence that Diaclone toys/inserts were actually
sold as/with TF's.
> Differences bigger than a red Tracks instead of blue, or a yellow
Cliffjumper
> instead of red? I don't know about that. What with all the
weirdnesses Hasbro
> was instituting at the time like pulling the Diaclone drivers in the
first
> place and throwing Bumblejumper into the works, I wouldn't be
surprised,
> though.
Except that a police car Sunstreaker is actually different (sirens etc)
therefore probably needing a different package/bubble.
> The red Tracks is interesting to me, in fact. He *couldn't* have been
just
> leftover Diaclone stock, since he was released well after Hasbro began
> retooling the molds to include their manufacturing trademark. I've
never heard
> of any Tracks toys showing up without the Hasbro/Takara markings. I
suspect
> Hasbro just decided to change his colors early in production. I mean,
the
> battle scene on the back of the 1985 toys was painted specifically
for the
> Transformers toy line, wasn't it? While it's *possible* the artist
just had a
> Diaclone model of Tracks to work from, it seems odd that none of the
other
> colors were off.
Hasbro had plenty of time to replace the "wrong" color toys with
correct color toys. On the other hand, maybe they just thought is was a
waist to throw away all the toys. I mean, they never bothered to change
the copyright on Sky Lynx. Also the Jetfire variant is well known.
> Zobovor... and yes, the red Tracks *was* released as a Transformers
toy in the
> U.S. I had a next-door neighbor who owned one.
:-)).
Eddie X-Tomb
> >I think you might be wrong about things. Bumblebee was one of my favs as
> >a kid and I recall having both colors of both him and cliffjumper.
> >Today, I found a yellow cliffjumper in my house, and it had a "rub"
> >sticker on it(you gotta hold your finger on it for the autobot or
> >decepticon symbol to appear). Now, the rub stickers weren't put on all
> >transformers til year 2, which means that this yellow cliffjumper came
> >from year 2, which lessens the possibility its just a microman leftover.
> >
> Hmm, at least the early ones were AFAIK. What does the copyright mark say (on
> the bottom of his feet)?
After I posted that message, I checked, and found the it says Takara,
not Hasbro. See, I had read that the 1st transformers were simply
imported and repacked takara toys, but that from year 2 onward they wee
produced by hasbro, so I assumed that if it was from year 2(the rub
sticker proved it was), it was made by hasbro, but now I'm not sure!
-Eddie
Eddie X-Tomb
>
> In article <106a1f94...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>, tryp...@hotmail.com
> says...
> >
> >Both say Hasbro and Takara 1980-1984
> >
> they would have been repackaged Microman toys it would only say Takara, Japan
> sell them under the same name.
Mine only said takara.
As for the question of would hasbro repackage takara toys or did they
just buy rights to the mold, i have two things to say:
1.) like i said, i heard early ones were repackage takara toys, but i
read that in toyfare and they have a tendancy to print wrong info
2.) Hasbro's Pokemon toys are almost entirely japanese toys that are
repackaged, so that show's they're not above doing it.
-Eddie
dv...@dds.nl
> hehe.. no sorry.. it was a joke :P
> Well, to me this deal wasn't 100% "feeling good" as well... but
> there are worse things in life right? I mean, a blue Huffer was
> interesting to have.. but you're the one who seemed more
> interested, so I guess it's ok. Who knows, maybe I'll find one
> somewhere, somehow again :)
> we shall see Galvatron... we shall see.....
I'm currently working on a trade for a yellow Windcharger. I've almost
completed the trade. And Argus has a blue Windcharger. He doesn't want
to trade it with me. Maybe if I offer him my Fort Max...
Anyway, plenty of variants out here in The Netherlands. I already look
forward to queensday!!
> and for the record: bot my yellow Cliffjumper and Red Bumblebee
> (who I painted yellow as a kid, because I wanted an "original
> BB.. hehehe) both say AND Takara AND Hasbro..
And you wanted to trade it to me :-)
Can't you wash the paint of ?
> WHY Hasbro would do this.. well probably because it's an easy
> way to make money.. maybe there were kids that wanted a BB
> army.. can be right? hmmm.. then you get a red an yellow :P
Or a BB/CJ gestalt ? LOL
Greetz,
Daniel "Devvi" Vink
GodGinrai
>And you wanted to trade it to me :-)
>Can't you wash the paint of ?
>
Well.. I want an original BB for it at least :)
and well... I guess you can wash of the paint..
or at least I HOPE so :)
Aziraphale
>
(snip)
>I'm currently working on a trade for a yellow Windcharger. I've almost
>completed the trade. And Argus has a blue Windcharger. He doesn't want
>to trade it with me. Maybe if I offer him my Fort Max...
>
There is also a white & green Windcharger, but that one is also known
as 'Tailgate' :P
Anyway, talking of variations, my Guzzle (Sparkabot) is dark grey and
light grey, not green-grey and white as he should be.
(snip)
--
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| __ | |\ * * /|
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'I don't pair off, I kill them.' - Me (in the role of my fanchar Thunderstrike)
Steve-o Stonebraker
>Steve-o, are you reading any of this?
Yup, and trying to piece things together...
This is not the first I've heard of a blue Huffer; that part of this
thread is more or less resolved already. It came from the Central / South
American line.
The confusing bit is the Diaclone repackaging; this appears to have
occurred in Europe, but not elsewhere. You're saying that your *neighbor*
had a red Tracks that came in US TF packaging? I am very skeptical...
No offense, of course. :) But I find it easier to believe that there's a
bug in your memory than that the toy was released like that in the States.
It makes the most sense to me that the red Tracks was, indeed, leftover
Diaclone. I'm having a brain fart right now, but the Diaclone-based TFs
got the same "Hasbro" stamp as the Microman-based ones, right? So, does
red Tracks have a Hasbro mark? That pretty much will tell us if he's a
leftover or not, right?
I'm hoping that he *is*. It makes everything make a lot more sense.
Then the only question left is why Hasbro decided to release Microman
backstock in the US, but Diaclone backstock only in Europe. Seems like a
bit of an odd choice, but, it's not something that I'm likely to loose
sleep over... :)
The other toy somebody has mentioned is a yellow CJ with a rubsign. This
seems a bit confusing, as it's thought the recolors were all used up
before year two when the rubsigns started. But, then that poster came
back to say there was no Hasbro marking on the foot... only Takara. So, I
guess that means the backstock lasted at least partway into year two. I
don't really have a problem with that idea. It's new information, I
guess, but it doesn't violate any of the other ideas we've got.
--
--Steve-o
Steve Stonebraker | alt.toys.transformers FAQ Keeper | Help end email spam!
srst...@bu.edu | http://astro.bu.edu/~srstoneb/ | http://www.cauce.org
Zenith
the rubsign. So I guess the alternate colours were used throughout the
first two years. Neither has a Hasbro stamp, both only state takara.
Zenith
3D Transformers web page: www.caliburn.co.uk
Steve-o Stonebraker wrote in message ...
Ranma 1449
>
>Yup, and trying to piece things together...
>
>This is not the first I've heard of a blue Huffer; that part of this
>thread is more or less resolved already. It came from the Central / >South
American line.
Being a relative master on the South American toys, there was no Huffer / Pipes
produced there. None what so ever. Only Brawn, Bumblebee, BJ, Cliffjumper,
Gears & Windcharger were made.
I remember this original discussion and posted this.
>The confusing bit is the Diaclone repackaging; this appears to have
>occurred in Europe, but not elsewhere.
Agreed. But remember Tfs collecting is still in infancy. We are not sure on
all things yet.
>You're saying that your *neighbor* had a red Tracks that came in US >TF
packaging? I am very skeptical...
I'am Also. Also whoever it was, please don't state that Red for Tracks was a
"Wrong" color and blue was right. It places a negative on it and we are not
sure on it. Yes they changed it to blue, but maybe as we are talking, it was
early stock....or a test run...or whatever.
>It makes the most sense to me that the red Tracks was, indeed, leftover
>Diaclone. I'm having a brain fart right now, but the Diaclone-based >TFs got
the same "Hasbro" stamp as the Microman-based ones, right? >So, does red
Tracks have a Hasbro mark? That pretty much will tell us >if he's a leftover
or not, right?
No. All the first releases have Takara 1980-84 (or something of sort) for
their markings. When Hasbro started to make them, then there Hasrbo markings.
Red Tracks has Takara 1980-84 markings.
>Then the only question left is why Hasbro decided to release >Microman
backstock in the US, but Diaclone backstock only in >Europe. Seems like a bit
of an odd choice, but, it's not something that
It is a we all know, a unknown descison. But who says it has to be a logical
one made by Hasbro? Could have been with shipping problems, different times of
release. Maybe they wanted Europe to get some as well, and North America
too....and they felt they cannot supply the demand before 1984 Christams and
1985 Christmas...but they ended up doing so...or maybe not.
It wasn;' long before Hasbro started Rub Symbols on the Transformers. Minicar
from Microman could still be full. Or, maybe one factory was using the
original Microman molds and so they all had non Hasbro dates. Again, we do not
know.
Since this discussion is getting interesting, I will add some info that has not
been brought up yet. We have agreed on these things,
-Hasbro / Milton Bradely (MB) did use and put (or produce?) a Red Tracks
(original Diaclone colors) and place it in Diaclone styrofoam inserts. They
also placed a Ratchet in Diaclone Styrofoma inserts.
-Hasbro did change the color of Tracks from Red to Blue.
Now, we do know about the Blue Bluestreak legend.....or for most here...it
should be a Urban Legend (my friend had one!). But one has not surfaced MISB,
to prove they were produced. The discussion on this piece is, that is, if
produced,......was it a Diaclone placed in North American packaging and sold?
Or did Hasbro produce it? I can actually help answer one half of this
question, that has never been discussed before. What is needed to prove the
idea that Hasbro produced their own varaint Early on, and then changed it for
unknown reasons. Diaclone varations cannot be used, since Hasbro did not make
them. Only one Quite Rare and unknown (soon to be Very known) toy answer this.
Generation 1 Red Slag. As pictured on the side of Slag's box, is a Slag
with a red Face, white hands and legs, + red plastic inards. This Slag is not
a Diaclone, because the Diaclone version was Blue, with Blue paint and a black
face. Hasbro did actually produce this piece, and then quickly changed it.
So this does prove that Hasbro can create their own varation, and most
probably one that was given to them by the Diaclone series.....and produce it
for a short time, then pull it from the shelves.
I guess that is one closer step to a Blue Bluestreak being produced...my
theory :^)
-Alex (http://www.toyarchive.com)
P.S. Notice how all Transformer Varations disscusions end with Blue
Bluestreak?
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
Steve-o Stonebraker wrote:
>You're saying that your *neighbor* had a red Tracks that came in US
>TF packaging?
Actually, I don't know whether it came in US packaging or not. I do have a
very clear memory of it being a red Tracks because it was the first time I had
seen the toy before. I suppose it could have been a genuine Diaclone import,
now that I think about it. :)
>Then the only question left is why Hasbro decided to release Microman
>backstock in the US, but Diaclone backstock only in Europe.
Do we know for sure that backstock was *ever* put inside Transformers boxes and
sold in the U.S., though? It still seems more likely to me that Hasbro
produced new toys using the Diaclone/Microman molds "as is," without retooling
them to add the manufacturing stamp until later.
It just seems terribly strange to me that there have been no confirmed
sightings of Diaclone toys in MISB Transformers packaging. My information may
be incorrect on this point, but weren't all the Autobot cars, for example,
different colors in their Diaclone incarnations than they were as Transformers?
I dunno. Hasbro seems to have weird policies about changing their molds. I
had a look in my G1 toy boxes, and I couldn't find Hasbro stamps on
Bonecrusher, Mixmaster (Scavenger had one, though), or either of the
Jumpstarters. Those were 1985 toys, right?
I also just checked my G2 toys, and while some of them like the Autobot cars
and Decepticon jets have 1992 stamps, the Mini Autobots and Dinobots still have
1984 stamps. I don't know *what* to think anymore. :)
ZobTrivia (4/3): Which Transformer is equipped with a C4-7 circuit release
ring?
(4/2): Windbreaker is the only Autobot with an insignia on his weapon.
Durandal
> >guide to Transformers". This proves that at least some Diaclones
> >made it as Transformers.
>
> definitive source, since it is notoriously inaccurate in places. :)
Yeah, just look at the reviews of the book on Amazon.com. Pretty poor.
(I assume the first ones are from the author's close friends since
they're so soon after the book came out.)
-Durandal
http://www.adequate.com/transformers/
Fortress X
copright dates (1974, 1983)?
--
Jeroen "Fortress X" Zuiderwijk
The Pre Transformer Page: http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
My Transformer Page:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/pratchett/170/mytfpage.html
My Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
Fortress X
>
> >If they would have been repackaged Microman toys it would only say
> >Takara, Japan and nothing else.
>
Diaclone
> and Microman toys for the Transformers line. As I believe Steve-o has
pointed
> out before, no one has ever reported buying black versions of
Ironhide or
> Sunstreakers that looked like police cars. *That's* what the Diaclone
toys
> looked like. In almost every case, the Diaclone toys didn't exist in
the
> colors we now associate with the Transformers toys.
>
> I suspect that, more likely than not, Hasbro just acquired the rights
to the
> toy molds, but didn't make any modifications to the molds during the
first run
> of the Transformers line, meaning Hasbro's manufacturing trademark
was absent.
> I don't pretend to know the whys and wherefores, but it seems
reasonable that
> Hasbro didn't want to waste time retooling molds if it meant not
having the
> toys out in time for Christmas, which was arguably the line's first
big push.
Hey, I hadn't thought of that yet. I do happen to have several Minibots
with the Microman copyright mark, but which were sold as Transformers.
But as you say it may very well be possible that Hasbro simply hadn't
changed the molds yet.
By the way, one thing I'm still not sure about: were the Transformer
toys for the US market actually produced in the US, or were they made
in Japan and shipped to the US?
Fortress X
zob...@aol.com (Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.) wrote:
> dv...@dds.nl wrote:
>
> >That is not exactly true. A few examples from my own collection are
> >the red Tracks and the MIB Ratchet with Diaclone packaging. Both can
> >be seen on my homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/~devvi
>
> Well, while that does lend credence to the idea that Diaclones were
repackaged,
new
> styrofoam inserts when perfectly serviceable inserts existed from the
Diaclone
ensure
> the toys were ready by Christmas 1984. Later on, they had the luxury
of
> machining their own inserts that were tailor-made to the new
packaging. They
> could have begun stamping their official Hasbro mark on the toys
around the
> same time.
>
there was a company (Ceji if I'm not mistaken) which produced and sold
several Diaclone and Microman toys under the name Diaclone. I know that
at least some of the Transformers we got here were also made in France
(like may Optimus Prime, in which is printed "made in France") most
likely by the same company. It's possible that they had some leftover
styrofoam packages and used them first. It's also possible that they
also used some of the leftovers from that toyline, although haven't
found any evidence that they produced the red Diaclone version of
Tracks. The MB mark on the red Tracks box may suggest that there is
another story to that toy. One other thing, in Germany a company called
Joustra released the same Diaclone toyline in the same packages (but
then translated I pressume). I've heard from someone in Germany that he
has a Diaclone Optimus Prime in a Transformer package.
> >The Ratchet with Diaclone packaging can also be seen in
the "unofficial
> >guide to Transformers". This proves that at least some Diaclones
> >made it as Transformers.
>
> Well, I wouldn't be citing "The Unofficial Guide to Transformers" as a
> definitive source, since it is notoriously inaccurate in places. :)
>
> >Back to the examples you mention, maybe Hasbro thought the
> >differences were to big (black Ironhide, police Sunstreaker) or
maybe
> >there was not much stock left of those toys. But that is offcourse
> >speculation.
>
> Differences bigger than a red Tracks instead of blue, or a yellow
Cliffjumper
> instead of red? I don't know about that. What with all the
weirdnesses Hasbro
> was instituting at the time like pulling the Diaclone drivers in the
first
> place and throwing Bumblejumper into the works, I wouldn't be
surprised,
> though.
>
> The red Tracks is interesting to me, in fact. He *couldn't* have been
just
> leftover Diaclone stock, since he was released well after Hasbro began
> retooling the molds to include their manufacturing trademark. I've
never heard
> of any Tracks toys showing up without the Hasbro/Takara markings. I
suspect
> Hasbro just decided to change his colors early in production. I mean,
the
> battle scene on the back of the 1985 toys was painted specifically
for the
> Transformers toy line, wasn't it? While it's *possible* the artist
just had a
> Diaclone model of Tracks to work from, it seems odd that none of the
other
> colors were off.
>
All together the Netherlands seems to be a complete mess concerning the
stuff we got here. Besides the Mexican import and the Red Tracks we
also got US packaged Transformers, and who knows what else may surface.
It's to bad that Transformers are now almost non-existent in the
Netherlands, as it's hard enough to find anything at all here.
By the way the Mexican variations don't limit themselves to the
Minibots. F.e. I have an (incomplete) Mexican Starscream, which has
many differences: a plastic nose, darker gray parts, metallic blue
parts, a slightly different cockpit.
Steve-o Stonebraker
>By the way, one thing I'm still not sure about: were the Transformer
>toys for the US market actually produced in the US, or were they made
>in Japan and shipped to the US?
AFAIK, *all* Transformers are manufactured by Takara as part of the deal
with Hasbro. I don't have this on any real authority; it's just the
understanding I've come to based on what other people have said (which,
admittedly, does include some Hasbro reps from BotCon 97, but I may have
misinterpreted them). If anybody has real knowledge on that, I'd be happy
to get confirmed or denied. :)
Steve-o Stonebraker
>Actually, I don't know whether it came in US packaging or not. I do have a
>very clear memory of it being a red Tracks because it was the first time I had
>seen the toy before. I suppose it could have been a genuine Diaclone import,
>now that I think about it. :)
I think I'll go with that theory, then. ;)
>Do we know for sure that backstock was *ever* put inside Transformers boxes and
>sold in the U.S., though? It still seems more likely to me that Hasbro
>produced new toys using the Diaclone/Microman molds "as is," without retooling
>them to add the manufacturing stamp until later.
I'm more interested in the color variations than the stamping; we know for
a fact that Microchange had both red and yellow versions of BB and CJ
molds. That Hasbro released red and yellow versions of them as
Transformers at the beginning of the TF line seems like too much of a
coincidence... They had chosen specific colors for their characters;
could they really have made such a gaffe as to order more made and not
specify that they wanted them in one color only? I guess it's possible,
but the old story of using backstock seems a lot more sensible to me
personally. I guess that's just a difference of opinion, though. :)
>It just seems terribly strange to me that there have been no confirmed
>sightings of Diaclone toys in MISB Transformers packaging. My information may
>be incorrect on this point, but weren't all the Autobot cars, for example,
>different colors in their Diaclone incarnations than they were as Transformers?
The party line is that only BB and CJ (and Bumper, natch) were sold as
backstock. No other Microman toys, and absolutely no Diaclone
toys. Why? *shrug* Just because.
Ranma 1449
of time typing it. Covered some new ground too.
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:35:31 GMT, Fortress X wrote:
>
>>By the way, one thing I'm still not sure about: were the Transformer
>>toys for the US market actually produced in the US, or were they
>>made in Japan and shipped to the US?
>
>AFAIK, *all* Transformers are manufactured by Takara as part of the
>deal with Hasbro.
If that's the case, then Hasbro ships the manufactured pieces off to other
parts of the world for assembly. A cursory glance at some of the G2 toys
reveals that the Minibots, Dinobots, and Laser Rods were made in China. The
electronic tank Megatron was made in Indonesia. Optimal Optimus and TM2
Blackarachnia were made in Thailand. TM2 Spittor and Stinkbomb were made in
China.
Zobovor, who cannot find a stamp on Tigerhawk to save my life...
Lars Eriksson
>Steve-o Stonebraker wrote:
>>AFAIK, *all* Transformers are manufactured by Takara as part of the
>>deal with Hasbro.
>
>If that's the case, then Hasbro ships the manufactured pieces off to other
>parts of the world for assembly. A cursory glance at some of the G2 toys
>reveals that the Minibots, Dinobots, and Laser Rods were made in China.
The
>electronic tank Megatron was made in Indonesia. Optimal Optimus and TM2
>Blackarachnia were made in Thailand. TM2 Spittor and Stinkbomb were made
in
>China.
>
>Zobovor, who cannot find a stamp on Tigerhawk to save my life...
China. The stamp is inside his lower right leg in robot mode. :-)
-----
Lars Eriksson, grounds...@swipnet.se
Personal home page: http://home.swipnet.se/groundsplitter/
Groundsplitter on IRC
TF-code: G++ FR+ FW- M+ #554 D+++ ADA N++ W++ B+++ OP BC98++ CN+++
Founder of the Nordic TransFans Association (NTFA)
NTFA home page: http://members.xoom.com/ntfa/
TF:Universe Archives: http://members.xoom.com/ntfa/universe/english/
Eddie X-Tomb
> If that's the case, then Hasbro ships the manufactured pieces off to other
> parts of the world for assembly. A cursory glance at some of the G2 toys
> reveals that the Minibots, Dinobots, and Laser Rods were made in China. The
> electronic tank Megatron was made in Indonesia. Optimal Optimus and TM2
> Blackarachnia were made in Thailand. TM2 Spittor and Stinkbomb were made in
> China.
>
Almost all U.S. toys, and alot of other products, are made in China.
It's alot cheaper. Those little chinese kids in the sweatshops, they
save us toy collectors a helluva lot of money at the register.
-Eddie X-T
Eddie X-Tomb
>
> AFAIK, *all* Transformers are manufactured by Takara as part of the deal
> with Hasbro. I don't have this on any real authority; it's just the
> understanding I've come to based on what other people have said (which,
> admittedly, does include some Hasbro reps from BotCon 97, but I may have
> misinterpreted them). If anybody has real knowledge on that, I'd be happy
> to get confirmed or denied. :)
According to ToyFare, the earlier G1 transformers were made by Takara(i
dunno if they mean year one only or the first few years), then Hasbro
manufactured the later ones themselves.
As for Beast Wars and Machines, I'm pretty sure, especially with later
Beast Wars like transmetals 1 and 2, they're made by hasbro. Why would
hasbro design beast machines(they did, i'm pretty damned sure) just to
send them to takara to manufacture?
-Eddie X-T
Jørgen Lid Widing
by Takara as they were originally ToyBox toys, check your own toys and you
will see there is no Takara mark, this goes for Shockwave as well as he was
originally a ToyCo Inc. toy. BTW Sky Lynx was never released in Japan and I
don't think Omega Supreme was either.
Jørgen
--
___________________________________________________________________
G++ FR- FW-- M- #99 D++ ADA N W++ B OQ++ MUSH-- BC CN- OM
Decepticons homepage: http://home.sol.no/~widing/decepticons/
"Steve-o Stonebraker" <srst...@bu-ast.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn8ekaj8....@bu-ast.bu.edu...
> On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:35:31 GMT, Fortress X <jer...@caiw.nl> wrote:
> >By the way, one thing I'm still not sure about: were the Transformer
> >toys for the US market actually produced in the US, or were they made
> >in Japan and shipped to the US?
>
> AFAIK, *all* Transformers are manufactured by Takara as part of the deal
> with Hasbro. I don't have this on any real authority; it's just the
> understanding I've come to based on what other people have said (which,
> admittedly, does include some Hasbro reps from BotCon 97, but I may have
> misinterpreted them). If anybody has real knowledge on that, I'd be happy
> to get confirmed or denied. :)
>
Blue-Jackal: Sailor Moonbase One:)
<ranm...@aol.com> writes
>Being a relative master on the South American toys, there was no Huffer / Pipes
>Gears & Windcharger were made.
There was a toy of me? Cool!:)
--
Blue-Jackal: Sailor Moonbase one:)
Currently on loan to alt.fan.team-rocket (Blame them!)
Creator of Blast Bee and Bumble Off:)
Sugarbot of Dinobot ***Officially***
Guardian of Starscreams spark:)
Tickled by Scott McNeil:)
Creator of the ATTRPG!:)
(Fact: Airazor is the daughter of Deszaras!)
(Fact: Bomburst doesn't like crisps, Tigerhawk does)
(Fact: TANKOR LIKE CAPS LOCK KEY!!!!)
(Fact: Jetstorm is a fellow Pokemon fan!:)
(Fact: BJ's most wanted TF = A Micromaster Optimal Optimus)
(Question: Who put the "Big" in "Big Convoy"?)
Blue-Jackal's tech spec motto:
"I'm not nosey, I just need to know everyone's business"
GodGinrai
>There was a toy of me? Cool!:)
>--
incredible, the things people can make out of posts :)
Steve-o Stonebraker
>According to ToyFare, the earlier G1 transformers were made by Takara(i
>dunno if they mean year one only or the first few years), then Hasbro
>manufactured the later ones themselves.
Hmm... this is definitely something to ask the Hasbro people about in Fort
Wayne this summer. :)
>As for Beast Wars and Machines, I'm pretty sure, especially with later
>Beast Wars like transmetals 1 and 2, they're made by hasbro. Why would
>hasbro design beast machines(they did, i'm pretty damned sure) just to
>send them to takara to manufacture?
Well, with Beast Wars, the Hasbro team did concept work and initial
designs, and then sent their ideas of to Takara. Takara designers then
worked out the detailed guts of the toys, like how big to make the ball
joints, where you needed pins, how long can the legs be to fit inside
their alt mode, etc.. The prototypes were thus Takara-made through
cooperation with Hasbro. And, it was my impression that the toys were
physically produced by Takara (they very well may have plants in countries
outside of Japan). That's what is no in doubt.
Steve-o Stonebraker
>Being a relative master on the South American toys, there was no Huffer / Pipes
>Gears & Windcharger were made.
Oh? Hrmm. So the origin of the blue Huffer remains a mystery... Is it
possible he's from Microman, and isn't a Transformer at all? Anybody know
what his MM colors were, if there was more than one scheme?
>Red Tracks has Takara 1980-84 markings.
Check. So, can we all agree he was probably backstock? Except for
Zobovor, who doesn't like the backstock idea. ;)
> Generation 1 Red Slag. As pictured on the side of Slag's box, is a Slag
>with a red Face, white hands and legs, + red plastic inards. This Slag is not
>a Diaclone, because the Diaclone version was Blue, with Blue paint and a black
>face. Hasbro did actually produce this piece, and then quickly changed it.
> So this does prove that Hasbro can create their own varation, and most
>probably one that was given to them by the Diaclone series.....and produce it
>for a short time, then pull it from the shelves.
> I guess that is one closer step to a Blue Bluestreak being produced...my
>theory :^)
Well... all that shows is that at the red-face Slag existed at least as a
prototype. That doesn't mean it was ever mass-produced or sold, as with
some of the other color-variants of TFs you can find in the catalogs. I
guess if you want to believe in the blue Bluestreak, that may serve as
encouragement, but I'd be wary of calling it "evidence". :)
Cobra Commander
Check. So, can we all agree he was probably backstock? Except for
Zobovor, who doesn't like the backstock idea. ;)>>
O.k., I have to say the "backstock theory" is complete rubbish, Hasbro did
not buy "backstock" from Takara, who ever thoght that stupid theory up
anyhow? I hate incorrect information......
<Well... all that shows is that at the red-face Slag existed at least as a
prototype. That doesn't mean it was ever mass-produced or sold, >
Except that a certian TransFan has this, namely the weeter.
Steve-o Stonebraker
><>Red Tracks has Takara 1980-84 markings.
>
>Check. So, can we all agree he was probably backstock? Except for
>Zobovor, who doesn't like the backstock idea. ;)>>
>
>O.k., I have to say the "backstock theory" is complete rubbish, Hasbro did
>not buy "backstock" from Takara, who ever thoght that stupid theory up
>anyhow? I hate incorrect information......
Boy, tell us how you really feel. This has been the accepted theory on
red Bumblebees for at least the past six years; that doesn't mean that
it's the truth, but if you disagree with it you've really got to do more
than say "this is incredibly stupid and wrong". Like, for example, you
could tell us what the correct information *is* since you imply that you
know it. I'm perfectly willing to entertain other ideas. I'd love to
have this all settled once and for all. If you can help, do so. Don't
sit back and insult us.
><Well... all that shows is that at the red-face Slag existed at least as a
>prototype. That doesn't mean it was ever mass-produced or sold, >
>
>Except that a certian TransFan has this, namely the weeter.
Ah, he does? Perhaps he can pop in on this thread, then, if he's reading.
:) He does seem to be posting again, these days... This Slag isn't a
variation I was previously aware of (and it's not on M Sipher's list), so
I'd be curious to hear about it. Is it certain to be a released-in-TF-
packaging item?
Stickshift
true because I never saw anything to contradict it. (I have only been hear
about a year.) But my question is this:
What about Bumblejumper?
Not a Bumblebee, not a Cliffjumper, yet we know Microman made a toy with
that model. This *seems* to support the backstock theory.
It isn't conclusive, but it is suggestive.
Stickshift
Ranma 1449
(including myself). It was produced, and is exactly like the one pictured on
the box, but no silver horns and has a silver painted face (Red plastic head).
As stated before, this easily proves that Hasbro has made their own varation
(these were not Diaclone colors) and quickly stopped making it. So it is quite
possible a for a Blue Blusetreak to exist.
As for the G1 Varations list, I can name quite a few pieces that are not on the
list like the Red Slag. I will have pictures of Red Slag up on
http://www.Toyarchive.com by next update.
Now, for the idea of Backstock Microman and Diaclone. I agree 100% that this
information at this point has no backing. It is another rumor that someone
said awhile back and has been placed into common knowledge. But we do know
that Bumblejumper (Yellow) was produced, and their were color mix ups on
Cliffjumper and Bumblebee. We do know that the early releases of G1 toys have
Takara markings. But we do not know if Takara had excess pieces that were sold
to Hasbro, or if Takara quickly made some to get the Christmas 84' going.
Hasbro dates were later added on as we know. Only time will tell when
prototype collectors start interviewing the early Hasbro workers in 84 to find
out the contracts and information and Toy exchange that occured.
-Glad to see my post got posted! Thought AOL killed it. See you at Botcon,
Alex
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>Ah, he does? Perhaps he can pop in on this thread, then, if he's
>reading.
I e-mailed The Weeter a couple of days ago since he's the best authority on
Diaclone I know. Here's what he wrote to me:
"It is a established FACT that the first line of TF's were indeed DIACLONE
stock. This is proven with the existance of the Gray roller and bigger fists
for prime, and catalog picts from long ago showing the Drivers as did the sears
catalog, and of course the original 1984 catalog with Soundwave having blue
tape covering the part on his door that says CASSETTE MAN. Do any of these
have factual existing proof? Well yea I have the gray rollered optimus.
"Further evidence is given when you look at the European line, especially with
the Red Tracks. Just yesterday some one showed me a picture of a red footed G1
Optimus from the neatherlands...
"Ok the hasbro insident happened, as I probably told you long ago, at a toy
convention. The hasbro rep showed me some new prototype picts, and a blue
bluestreak. He said that in Japan, the very first line of bluestreaks probably
were infact the blue versions, since they got rid of their early stock there
first. After that it was all silver, since the 2 different versions of have
the silver main base paint."
Me, I'm not sure whether any of this can be considered proof, since all the
catalog photos he mentions could easily have been of Diaclone toys that were
available in lieu of official Transformers toys that had yet to be
mass-produced. The fact that someone from Hasbro confirmed the backstock
theory does seem to lend credence to the idea, no? :)
I'm willing to concede for now that the red Bumblebees and yellow Cliffjumpers,
as well as Bumblejumper, were leftover Microman stock, since those are the only
known U.S. Transformers toys with significant color variations and you'd think
Hasbro would have the brains to notice that Bumblejumper was a different toy.
(I'd even be willing to accept that the red Tracks was as well.) I don't know
enough about Hasbro's practices to present a strong case to the contrary,
except for the fact that it seems like a cheatsy thing to do. :)
Unless new evidence presents itself, I'm planning to table this discussion
since it makes my head hurt. :)
ZobTrivia (4/5): Name four TFs in the show who have complained about their
paint job.
(4/3): Autobot Inferno is equipped with a C4-7 circuit release ring, according
to the STARS Tech-Spec Manual.
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>Only Bumblebee, BJ, Cliffjumper, Gears & Windcharger were made.
>
>There was a toy of me? Cool!:)
http://zobovor.webjump.com/shelftag_bj.gif
Didn't you know? :)
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>I'm willing to concede for now that the red Bumblebees and yellow
>Cliffjumpers, as well as Bumblejumper, were leftover Microman stock,
Oh, I forgot to add something. It occured to me that maybe the whole reason
Hasbro produced the "Listen N' Fun" tapes and story books was to get rid of
even more Microman stock? I seem to recall seeing them at Toys "R" Us around
late 1985, and I remember thinking it was curious that an older character like
Cliffjumper was still being produced. In yellow, mind you. :)
Zobovor, who still has a yellow Cliffjumper head somewhere...
john
Actually, alot of the mini cars were old Takara stock, and were shipped for
re-packaging,
which is why there is a very rare cross-breed of cliffjumper and bumblebee
out there called in
fan circles "bumblejumper". He's been called other combinations on the same
theme but who cares.
It seems that while re-packaging for Hasbro, sometimes some of the mini
vehicles produced by
Takara but not resold under hasbro's flag would occasionally surface, the
crews would usually catch
any errors but some have been known to occur, like the off-color figures and
the previously mentioned
bumblejumper(Who has the front of bumblebee but a fin back, really cool if
you get a chance to see).
Now as far as the larger figures, I have no idea what happened, we know
perceptor and megatron(and laserbeak for that matter) were all colored
slightly different(some not so slight) in the diaclone and microman lines.
I would like to see a pic of a red-faced slag if any one out there has one,
just E-mail me at jja...@prodigy.net .
That is something I've often heard of but never gotten to see.
As far as references go for my back stock facts, please just surf a bit,
there are several great fan sites
out there, this is one great link-
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/pratchett/170/pre-tf.html , and there
are
others, happy hunting. Many of the second and third wave of TF's were
actually completed molds from the
late seventies and early eighties, lucky kids over there!news:slrn8en5uj....@bu-ast.bu.edu...
> On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:43:07 GMT, Cobra Commander wrote:
> ><>Red Tracks has Takara 1980-84 markings.
> >
> >Check. So, can we all agree he was probably backstock? Except for
> >Zobovor, who doesn't like the backstock idea. ;)>>
> >
> >O.k., I have to say the "backstock theory" is complete rubbish, Hasbro
did
> >not buy "backstock" from Takara, who ever thoght that stupid theory up
> >anyhow? I hate incorrect information......
>
> Boy, tell us how you really feel. This has been the accepted theory on
> red Bumblebees for at least the past six years; that doesn't mean that
> it's the truth, but if you disagree with it you've really got to do more
> than say "this is incredibly stupid and wrong". Like, for example, you
> could tell us what the correct information *is* since you imply that you
> know it. I'm perfectly willing to entertain other ideas. I'd love to
> have this all settled once and for all. If you can help, do so. Don't
> sit back and insult us.
>
> ><Well... all that shows is that at the red-face Slag existed at least as
a
> >prototype. That doesn't mean it was ever mass-produced or sold, >
> >
> >Except that a certian TransFan has this, namely the weeter.
>
Cobra Commander
red Bumblebees for at least the past six years; that doesn't mean that
it's the truth, but if you disagree with it you've really got to do more
than say "this is incredibly stupid and wrong". Like, for example, you
could tell us what the correct information *is* since you imply that you
know it. I'm perfectly willing to entertain other ideas. I'd love to
have this all settled once and for all. If you can help, do so. Don't
sit back and insult us.>
I was not inuslting anyone, nor intending to, I just get sick of having to
repeat myself over and over. The info has been out there, and the truth
behind why we got weird mix up, I have had the info on my web sites for
quite some time now, and have posted it it many times to counteract some
mis-information on the news groups before. Yet, even if I go intot a long
drawn out explaination now, tomorrow someone won't believe a word I say.
Here's the deal, people will believe who they fell are more knowledgeable by
how popular a Transfan there are. So if Hooks says "there was no Diaclone
silver Honda City" people would believe him more over me saying there was,
even he he doesn't know anything about Diaclone. This is were the trouble
starts, cause now you get people who may have heard rumors, may have just
guessed, but are prolific posters here, and there ideas are then taken as
truths.
Cobra Commander
stock. This is proven with the existance of the Gray roller and bigger
fists
for prime, and catalog picts from long ago showing the Drivers as did the
sears
catalog, and of course the original 1984 catalog with Soundwave having blue
tape covering the part on his door that says CASSETTE MAN. Do any of these
have factual existing proof? Well yea I have the gray rollered optimus.>>
Only problem is, that the Diaclone Battle Convoy had a blue "Roller", and it
was not even the same type od toy we had, ours was altered.
--
-Dave
Have Diaclone or Kronoform toys to sell?
Have Microman or Micronauts?
Please let me know..........
Want to visit my page:
http://members.xoom.com/robotbase/davepage.html
[Daves Robotbase, AV&IDOL, Microman Micro-Change, DIA-ONE]
"we play the roles that they assigned us"
Steve-o Stonebraker
>bumblejumper(Who has the front of bumblebee but a fin back, really cool if
>you get a chance to see).
Bumblejumper (aka Bumper) is *not* a hybrid of BB and CJ. He's a third
mold in the same family, and he's got pretty distinct features. You can
see pictures of him in the Ark Archives:
http://www.integrity-network.com/ark/
Look under the North American "toy" pictures.
Steve-o Stonebraker
>I was not inuslting anyone, nor intending to, I just get sick of having to
>repeat myself over and over. The info has been out there, and the truth
>behind why we got weird mix up, I have had the info on my web sites for
>quite some time now, and have posted it it many times to counteract some
>mis-information on the news groups before.
Well, I can certainly understand you being frustrated then. Still, your
post struck me as pretty harsh. But it's not something that's going to
stick with me or something. Bygones.
I'm looking at your website, and it seems like you're in the process of
rebuilding? Some of your banners aren't actually links... The
Microchange section is working, and interesting, but I'm guessing this
info you're speaking of is in the Transformers area that isn't accessible.
>even he he doesn't know anything about Diaclone. This is were the trouble
>starts, cause now you get people who may have heard rumors, may have just
>guessed, but are prolific posters here, and there ideas are then taken as
>truths.
As I said; this particular idea was already taken as truth when I got on
Usenet six years ago. I have no idea who came up with it, and we probably
never will. But, it explains the data better than anything else, which is
I think why it's spread and grown to be accepted as fact, instead of just
a theory.
It will take time to swing everybody over to a new model if new data
becomes available, just like it took awhile before most people stopped
thinking the Destrons and Cybertrons were from different planets, but
it'll happen eventually. So, I'd love to see your info; just point me to
it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested.
(BTW, didn't realize you were the Dave Barry of Dave's Robot Base. I
think I bought a Sabreback from you at BC99.)
Cobra Commander
think I bought a Sabreback from you at BC99.)>
To be honest, I don't think so, you must have bought it from someone else
(maybe my table mate Hydra?), however...we did room together at BotCon 97 :)
--
-Dave
Have Diaclone or Kronoform toys to sell?
Have Microman or Micronauts?
Please let me know..........
Want to visit my page:
http://members.xoom.com/robotbase/davepage.html
[Daves Robotbase, AV&IDOL, Microman Micro-Change, DIA-ONE]
"Fighting mad this rebel lad with a dream he'd had, till his dying breath
he'd search his soul and gamble with death"
Fortress X
"Cobra Commander" <dave...@earthlink.com> wrote:
> <>Red Tracks has Takara 1980-84 markings.
>
> Check. So, can we all agree he was probably backstock?
Eh, no, exactly the opposite. If it would be backstock it would just say
Takara Japan in a circle, no dates. If there are dates it proves that
it's NOT a repackaged Diaclone. At least not a Japanese Diaclone and as
far as I know there were no non-Japanese Diaclone Tracks, except maybe
italian ones, but it woudl be highly unlikely that they would end up in
Dutch Transformer packages.
>Except for Zobovor, who doesn't like the backstock idea. ;)>>
Well, I'm starting to have my doubts. Of course it doesn't mean that it
can't be what happened, it's just that there are other possibilities.
Unless we can come in contact with someone who was working there back
then we will never know for sure.
--
Jeroen "Fortress X" Zuiderwijk
The Pre Transformer Page: http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
My Transformer Page:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/pratchett/170/mytfpage.html
My Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve-o Stonebraker
><(BTW, didn't realize you were the Dave Barry of Dave's Robot Base. I
>think I bought a Sabreback from you at BC99.)>
>
>To be honest, I don't think so, you must have bought it from someone else
>(maybe my table mate Hydra?), however...we did room together at BotCon 97 :)
Oh? Oh, yeah... that's right... That year I roomed with Nixtr and some
guy I didn't really know and barely saw at the Con. So that's you,
hmm? :) Anyway... what's the story on this website info? If it's up
anyplace, let me know, or feel free to post it or email me or something...
Devvi
pretty certain that he is Diaclone back-stock. The reason is that he
wasn't packaged in a regular bubble but in Diaclone packaging (except
the box, that was a regular Transformer box).
Hasbro knew exactly what they were doing when they packaged the toys.
It wasn't a mistake. The reason I know this, is because a Diaclone box
is smaller than a Transformer box. Therefore, you can't just put a
Diaclone insert in a Transformer box. Hasbro used special folded
cardboard to keep the Diaclone insert in place in the Transformer boxes.
I don't have pictures of these inserts right now but I will be updating
my website in the future with them. I have the red Tracks MIB and also
a Ratchet with Diaclone inserts.
> Eh, no, exactly the opposite. If it would be backstock it would just
say
> Takara Japan in a circle, no dates. If there are dates it proves that
> it's NOT a repackaged Diaclone. At least not a Japanese Diaclone and
as
> far as I know there were no non-Japanese Diaclone Tracks, except maybe
> italian ones, but it woudl be highly unlikely that they would end up
in
> Dutch Transformer packages.
>
> Well, I'm starting to have my doubts. Of course it doesn't mean that
it
> can't be what happened, it's just that there are other possibilities.
> Unless we can come in contact with someone who was working there back
> then we will never know for sure.
>
> --
> Jeroen "Fortress X" Zuiderwijk
> The Pre Transformer Page: http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
> My Transformer Page:
> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/pratchett/170/mytfpage.html
> My Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/~frx
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
--
Greetings,
Daniel "Devvi" Vink
http://www.crosswinds.net/~devvi
"I transform. Therefore I am."
Z.O.B.O.V.O.R.
>Hasbro knew exactly what they were doing when they packaged the
>toys. It wasn't a mistake. The reason I know this, is because a
>Diaclone box is smaller than a Transformer box. Therefore, you can't
>just put a Diaclone insert in a Transformer box. Hasbro used special
>folded cardboard to keep the Diaclone insert in place in the Transformer
>boxes.
But that's the point, isn't it? It's possible there were entire pallets full
of old Diaclone inserts that Hasbro decided to use up in order to save costs.
But it's also possible that Hasbro resigned themselves to producing more
Diaclone inserts to which molds already existed, rather than wasting time
machining new inserts. Folding over a piece of cardboard is much easier than
tailor-crafting a plastic tray.
If Hasbro always planned on using the Diaclone inserts, why change the size of
the boxes at all? It created an extra step for Hasbro to throw in the
cardboard stoppers, when they could have just printed Transformers boxes the
same dimensions as the Diaclone boxes, and ship them in the same-sized cases.
It's all academic, of course, but my gut feeling is that Hasbro cut a few
corners because they wanted to get the toys out in time for the Christmas rush.
Adding the rub symbols to the *entire* wave of 1984 toys as well as the new
1985 toys may not have just been a means of distinguishing Transformers from
the likes of the GoBots and Converters--but to strengthen the identity of the
line that Hasbro itself initially confused by shipping toys that had no Hasbro
stamp on them.
Zobovor, who still thinks Tobias looks like Space Ghost. :)
Ranma 1449
webpage. :^) (serious)