[BM] The End of The World as We Know it...
Neale Davidson
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My god, we're watching 'The Rebirth' stretched out into 13 episodes! Noooo!
Actually, it seems
like Skir watched Rebirth and designed a new series as an extension of that
three parter. It makes
sense, considering the basic premise, and the (gross) mischaracterizations
of several characters.
Optimus Primal, Rebirth Op Prime. Does nothing but listens to Vector Sigma.
Megatron, Galvatron. Gives orders to the 'lieutenants', but does little
directly.
Tankor, Zarak. Schemer, attempts to usurp control of the 'cons.
Of course, today's episode was /ripped/ right out of 'Return of the Jedi' as
well. I was half
expecting to see Megatron shoot lightning bolts from his fingertips. Having
Optimus watch as
his friends are 'destroyed' really looked like the Throne Room scene from
the end of Jedi.
(He's getting pushed to the dark side! Look!)
Also... Skir doesn't know the difference between Mainframe and Reboot.
Hardware is nothing
but computer programs. Hell, computer programs can do /anything/ apparently.
We had more
vehicons 'derez' in this episode. It makes me think this is all a bad
holodeck experience, and
not a battle-scarred planet with an overdose of military hardware...
Lastly, again, we have a few bits pulled from the 'ether' to drive the
episode. The 'cool' factor
was the 'Plasma Energy Chamber'. It made sense this time, but I would have
rather seen a
story arc with the Maximals /getting/ the chamber rather than just walking
up to it...
Another line. "Don't worry, Organics won't be affected." Yep, confirmation.
The Maximals are
not technological /at all/. They're organic. Either that or Optimus was
going to kill them all
knowingly. It makes me wonder how much of that plantlife was /smoked/
instead of grown...
Okay, more seriously, the execution of this episode was the best of the
series, and Megatron,
after 13 episodes, is /finally/ resembling more of his former self. Sadly,
this comes far far too
late to save the series as a whole.
If anyone is still confused about 'organic vs technology' after this
episode, they need to get to
a shrink, quick. There was no subtlety here. At least it's being portrayed
that both sides are
evil.. but... the cliffhanger didn't hit me. Well - I want both sides to
lose. Hard to care /what/
happens to Cybertron at this point...
--
Neale Davidson - TFN...@home.com
Keeper of the Protoform Project - http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale/index.htm
"Beast Machines: Remember kids, the best way to deal with a problem is to
run away from it."
The Frozen Food Guy
Zero minus 6
The Frozen Food Guy <Kevi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11829-38...@storefull-288.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> RAG, RAG, RAG....... It never ends.....
>
I think it's because he has a bad case of head up the ass syndrome, which
has earned him a spot in many kill-files.
--
"I would say that we are deliberately making the Dolphin easy to program
for - very strong development tools - because we learned our lesson with the
Nintendo 64."- Howard Lincoln
"What's wrong Megatron? Is your single elegant machine having trouble
multitasking?" -Optimus Primal
"Today, we have a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster." - The Shoveller from Mystery Men
WAKKA WAKKA DO!
Neale Davidson
> has earned him a spot in many kill-files.
My only reply to the both of you would consist of what Larry once said about
Vectory Sigma.
--
Neale Davidson - TFN...@home.com
Keeper of the Protoform Project - http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale/index.htm
"Beast Machines: Heroes don't use guns, but they do commit genocide."
Scott E. Kampa
First off, I...haven't seen the episode yet. Just had a couple of
comments...
> My god, we're watching 'The Rebirth' stretched out into 13 episodes!
>Noooo!
Hey now! Some of us liked "The Rebirth". :)
> Of course, today's episode was /ripped/ right out of 'Return of the
>Jedi' as well. I was half expecting to see Megatron shoot lightning
>bolts from his fingertips.
Well, Megatron *has* shot lightning from his fingertips in previous
episodes... :)
> Lastly, again, we have a few bits pulled from the 'ether' to drive the
> episode. The 'cool' factor was the 'Plasma Energy Chamber'. It made
>sense this time, but I would have rather seen a story arc with the
>Maximals /getting/ the chamber rather than just walking up to it...
I don't know. If we had a episode devoted to just *getting* to the
Plasma Energy Chamber, wouldn't that just mean a bunch of people
wondering why they wasted an episode doing that instead of just giving
a little exposition and moving right along?
> Another line. "Don't worry, Organics won't be affected." Yep,
>confirmation. The Maximals are not technological /at all/. They're
>organic. Either that or Optimus was going to kill them all
> knowingly.
Actually, I'm not so sure about this. First of all, there are multiple
examples of Primal et al, calling themselves technorganic. Implecation
is some mechanical, some organic parts. The Plasma Energy Chamber
affects mechanical beings, sure, but in "The Rebirth" it only affects
beings that are *totally* mechanical. Spike and the Nebulans were
unaffected even in their armor (a form that could loosely be
called "technorganic"). Why they took the armor off is beyond me, but
they were quite unaffected in their *-master suits. So Primal's
statement that organics won't be affected could mean that the Maximals
won't be affected since they partially organic, just like the *-masters
in their armor.
> If anyone is still confused about 'organic vs technology' after this
> episode, they need to get to a shrink, quick. There was no subtlety
>here. At least it's being portrayed that both sides are
> evil.. but... the cliffhanger didn't hit me.
I'll have to wait to see the cliffhanger first...
But, was that comment about needing a shrink necessary? I don't see
any need to be so purposefully belligerent to people who have been
enjoying the show. I know you've been flamed in the past (and the
present based on a couple of other immature responses to this post) but
from what I've seen of you in past posts, before BMac, you have always
been above such immature retaliations.
Onward to the show, you say yourself that both sides are being
portrayed as evil. Maybe that's the point right now. Neither Megatron
or Primal are looking for that balance and both are willing to unleash
holocaust-like measures to reach their goals. Both are blinded by what
they think is right and refuse to look for other options. Of all the
characters in the show, Cheetor (who's still as ass IMO; I don't care
what the box says he transforms into :) has the right idea: go after
the missing sparks. That's what he's been thinking from the
beginning. But Primal's been blinded and not thinking clearly, with
the weight of guilt on his shoulders.
Scott, think about it...Cheetor the ass. The toy *does* look like it
has hooves... :)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Oedipus, put your mother down. You'll poke your eyes out."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mu
>
=> My only reply to the both of you would consist of what Larry once
said about
> Vectory Sigma.
Larry's not in charge anymore.
Mu
>
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> My god, we're watching 'The Rebirth' stretched out into 13 episodes! Noooo!
Would you prefer 'Carnage in C-Minor?'
> Actually, it seems
> like Skir watched Rebirth and designed a new series as an extension of that
> three parter. It makes
<snip>
> Of course, today's episode was /ripped/ right out of 'Return of the Jedi' as
> well. I was half
See? That's what happens when you watch too much TV :P You can't see
anything else but another show in its mimicry, and its begging to
loathe.
> Also... Skir doesn't know the difference between Mainframe and Reboot.
> Hardware is nothing
I'm going on a limb here and guessing this has to do with Tankorr's
failsafe being hardwired into his circuitry. I'm surprised the
Diagnostic Drone (R.I.P... pieces, that is-- I never thought that he'd
be the one to die) didn't know about it.
> but computer programs. Hell, computer programs can do /anything/ apparently.
Computer programs can make robots that transform, have feelings and
personalities, and start Great Wars. They also make magical doohickeys
like the original Key to Vector Sigma, the Matrix of Leadership, and
trailers that appear out of nowhere.
> Lastly, again, we have a few bits pulled from the 'ether' to drive the
> episode. The 'cool' factor
> was the 'Plasma Energy Chamber'. It made sense this time, but I would have
> rather seen a
> story arc with the Maximals /getting/ the chamber rather than just walking
> up to it...
Considering that Megatron didn't know it was there, of course. And had
they taken a while to get to the Plasma Energy Chamber Primal probably
would've used it right away-- then the series WOULD bite.
> Another line. "Don't worry, Organics won't be affected." Yep, confirmation.
> The Maximals are
> not technological /at all/. They're organic. Either that or Optimus was
> going to kill them all
> knowingly. It makes me wonder how much of that plantlife was /smoked/
> instead of grown...
Given what happens in the end, I'd wager that Primal doesn't give a
slag about saving his own skin anymore, or that of his own people.
Megatron's right; Primal would never have unleashed the Plasma Energy
(but of course the boss-monkey's insane now... boo-hoo)
> Okay, more seriously, the execution of this episode was the best of the
> series, and Megatron,
> after 13 episodes, is /finally/ resembling more of his former self. Sadly,
> this comes far far too
> late to save the series as a whole.
Megatron did the exact same thing in the previous seasons of Beast
Wars-- sit around in his office with a cup of Java and let everybody
else do something for him (oh, let's see... the Vok Planetbuster, the
entire ordeal with the Ark, attacking the Ark on a regular basis...).
Only this time around it looked like he really WASN'T doing anything.
> "Beast Machines: Remember kids, the best way to deal with a problem is to
> run away from it."
Well, you can run all you like. You've already missed the show
(metaphorically).
Neale Davidson
Noooo!
>
> Would you prefer 'Carnage in C-Minor?'
Transformers: The Musical! Um.. no... and please don't give Fox and Hasbro
any ideas. Musical numbers are still too common in many kids' shows. (There
he is.. my little guy...)
> I'm going on a limb here and guessing this has to do with Tankorr's
> failsafe being hardwired into his circuitry. I'm surprised the
> Diagnostic Drone (R.I.P... pieces, that is-- I never thought that he'd
> be the one to die) didn't know about it.
Nope nope. That didn't bug me. What bugged me was the 'key to Vector Sigma'
being nothing more than a computer program. The 'Catalyst' growth virus
program.
The derezzing of destroyed drones. Etc... lots of things which would fit in
'reboot'...
but not in a setting that is supposedly real.
> Considering that Megatron didn't know it was there, of course. And had
> they taken a while to get to the Plasma Energy Chamber Primal probably
> would've used it right away-- then the series WOULD bite.
Yeah, like it's doing so well so far. Wouldn't you rather seen the Maximals
have
a tangible goal worth pursuing? And, remember those nasty sentinel drones
down in the depths? The energon leeches... lots of things to deal with. And,
of course, the drones at their backs...
> Given what happens in the end, I'd wager that Primal doesn't give a
> slag about saving his own skin anymore, or that of his own people.
> Megatron's right; Primal would never have unleashed the Plasma Energy
> (but of course the boss-monkey's insane now... boo-hoo)
Well there, the Maximals /were/ screwed. It was his last ditch effort, I
think,
but it did prove that the 'good guy Transformers' aren't even robots at all,
with the implication that sparks are organic as well...
Zero minus 6
Slvrmist10 <slvrm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991216193410...@ng-cr1.aol.com...
> >=> My only reply to the both of you would consist of what Larry once
> >said about
> >> Vectory Sigma.
> >
> > Larry's not in charge anymore.
>
Yeah, now his boot lickers are out in droves, flaming BM.
Dan Perlberger
I ever killfiled. I'm just sick of seeing his posts. Every week he says he
hates the show and will not watch next week's episode. But every week, I
see his crap in this newsgroup. Well maybe I'll try this killfile thing
out...
Dan
Zero minus 6 <*@*.*> wrote in message news:83b9it$25r$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
> The Frozen Food Guy <Kevi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:11829-38...@storefull-288.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > RAG, RAG, RAG....... It never ends.....
> >
>
> I think it's because he has a bad case of head up the ass syndrome, which
> has earned him a spot in many kill-files.
>
>
>
Dusty, and his very painful Krunk
jackasses in the group, who flame people out of the blue. I come from the midwest
too, and yeah, swearing aint shit out there, but you were just being a plain-ass
jerk.............
Dusty
SLIMER1509 wrote:
> >Look, sheep-boy. I don't lick anyone's boots and I don't much like your damn
> >attitude.
>
> Dove, you really need to turn this reply around and read it as it pertains to
> yourself. Settle down. However, I see that you are quick to flame when your
> own comments are turned on you (bootlicker or sheep--they have the same
> connotation). Maybe now you will understand why you set people off with your
> "sheep" messages.
>
> >If there are mistakes it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to admit them
> >than to try to pretend they don't exist.
>
> Who's pretending? If you hate the show, you see mistakes that may or may not
> be there. If you love it, you don't. There are, of course, stages in between.
> Stop trying to make you opinions sound like fact.
>
> >I don't know how far you've got your
> >head crammed up your ass, (btw, can you see the back of your own teeth like
> >that?), but at least I have the consolation of knowing your life is likely to
> >be fairly short if you like to go through it pretending everything is just
> >fine
> >all the time.
> >When something is screwed up, you need to admit things are wrong if you're
> >going to do a damn thing about it.
> >I have a really short fuse, and I've noticed Neale's posts tend to be a hell
> >of
> >a lot nicer than mine. I think he's doin a damn good job of keepin his temper
> >and you lil fucks oughta lay off!
>
> My God, what set this off? I think you need some downtime, Dove. That was
> really REALLY uncalled for.
--
"I had to pass a kidney stone, and was shocked to find out it was a headmaster."
Slvrmist10
>said about
>> Vectory Sigma.
>
> Larry's not in charge anymore.
And boy does it show...
White Dove
Slvrmist10
Look, sheep-boy. I don't lick anyone's boots and I don't much like your damn
attitude. I've been trying to be on good holiday-like behavior recently and am
really sick of jackasses like you.
If there are mistakes it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to admit them
than to try to pretend they don't exist. I don't know how far you've got your
head crammed up your ass, (btw, can you see the back of your own teeth like
that?), but at least I have the consolation of knowing your life is likely to
be fairly short if you like to go through it pretending everything is just fine
all the time.
When something is screwed up, you need to admit things are wrong if you're
going to do a damn thing about it.
I have a really short fuse, and I've noticed Neale's posts tend to be a hell of
a lot nicer than mine. I think he's doin a damn good job of keepin his temper
and you lil fucks oughta lay off!
White Dove
(Pardon my damn language, but I grew up in the country. Out
here shit is just another word for manure. And lately "gotta go write a Bob
Skir story" has been a synonym for "I need to go to the bathroom")
SLIMER1509
>attitude.
Dove, you really need to turn this reply around and read it as it pertains to
yourself. Settle down. However, I see that you are quick to flame when your
own comments are turned on you (bootlicker or sheep--they have the same
connotation). Maybe now you will understand why you set people off with your
"sheep" messages.
>If there are mistakes it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to admit them
>than to try to pretend they don't exist.
Who's pretending? If you hate the show, you see mistakes that may or may not
be there. If you love it, you don't. There are, of course, stages in between.
Stop trying to make you opinions sound like fact.
>I don't know how far you've got your
>head crammed up your ass, (btw, can you see the back of your own teeth like
>that?), but at least I have the consolation of knowing your life is likely to
>be fairly short if you like to go through it pretending everything is just
>fine
>all the time.
>When something is screwed up, you need to admit things are wrong if you're
>going to do a damn thing about it.
>I have a really short fuse, and I've noticed Neale's posts tend to be a hell
>of
>a lot nicer than mine. I think he's doin a damn good job of keepin his temper
>and you lil fucks oughta lay off!
My God, what set this off? I think you need some downtime, Dove. That was
really REALLY uncalled for.
Zero minus 6
> >> >=> My only reply to the both of you would consist of what Larry once
> >> >said about
> >> >> Vectory Sigma.
> >> >
> >> > Larry's not in charge anymore.
> >>
> >> And boy does it show...
> >
> >Yeah, now his boot lickers are out in droves, flaming BM.
>
> Look, sheep-boy.
I see, you're not a boot licker, but I'm a sheep?
> I don't lick anyone's boots and I don't much like your damn
> attitude.
I don't particularly care for yours either.
> I've been trying to be on good holiday-like behavior recently
Right, Deck the halls and Bash BM I guess.
> and am
> really sick of jackasses like you.
Way to show your holiday spirit.
> If there are mistakes it makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to admit
them
> than to try to pretend they don't exist.
I suppose there were no mistakes in BW, or <gasp> even G1 for that matter.
> I don't know how far you've got your
> head crammed up your ass, (btw, can you see the back of your own teeth
like
> that?),
Maybe I should ask you, you seem to be the expert.
> but at least I have the consolation of knowing your life is likely to
> be fairly short if you like to go through it pretending everything is just
fine
> all the time.
I have no major problems with BM except Sensei Primal.
> When something is screwed up, you need to admit things are wrong if you're
> going to do a damn thing about it.
Did I miss something? What did we fix in BW?
> I have a really short fuse, and I've noticed Neale's posts tend to be a
hell of
> a lot nicer than mine. I think he's doin a damn good job of keepin his
temper
> and you lil fucks oughta lay off!
Once you have to resort to profanity, you lost the argument.
> And lately "gotta go write a Bob
> Skir story" has been a synonym for "I need to go to the bathroom")
As opposed to the in depth and awe inspiring G1 writing.
The Frozen Food Guy
Tyme
~ Tyme
The Time Traveling Cat
"You're as obsessed as Primal !"
Joona I Palaste
: Who's Vectory Sigma?
"Vector Sigma", not "Vectory Sigma". It's the central computer of
Cybertron, which gave the Transformers life. This is seen in the G1
cartoon.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
Grindm...@webtv.net
he suck in the transformers we need a true fan to writ for our show
OMICRON BETA SUPREME
Zero minus 6
<Grindm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11726-38...@storefull-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Mqan you hit it right on the head I totally agree send Bob Scare home
> he suck in the transformers we need a true fan to writ for our show
> OMICRON BETA SUPREME
Poor spelling, poor grammar, and a WebTV address. Thank you Microsoft!
Honestly, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
Zero minus 6
AlexJ33106 <alexj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991217201117...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
>
> >> RAG, RAG, RAG....... It never ends.....
>
> >I think it's because he has a bad case of head up the ass syndrome, which
> >has earned him a spot in many kill-files.
>
it
> because his(and other naysayers) remarks have a good point?
<snippity snip snip>
It's not that he doesn't have the right to voice his opinion, it's the fact
that every day, he comes on and says how much BM sucks, and that he won't
watch next week's episode. However, he DOES watch the episode, then
proceeds to say how much it sucked. He is not "intelligently" bashing the
show, he's stupidly bashing it. BM has done nothing worse than some of the
stuff we've seen on BW and G1.
Túrin
> Although it probably sounds like I'm venting my anger out at you, it's really
> directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
> disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
> television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees with each
> other.
No, they don't.
<GD&R>
Túrin
The (Unofficial) Official Beast Wars Non-Show Character Site
http://knoledge.org/NSCS/
Radio Free Cybertron
http://rfcybertron.cjb.net/
Transformers Fanfic and Related Junk
http://knoledge.org/mormegil/
Slvrmist10
Actually, ran low on chocolate, which for me is about as bad.
I'm doin much better now.
White Dove
(who doesn't take heavy meds, just herbal stuff...)
AlexJ33106
>> RAG, RAG, RAG....... It never ends.....
>I think it's because he has a bad case of head up the ass syndrome, which
>has earned him a spot in many kill-files.
Why? Because he's intelligently bashing a show you happen to enjoy? Or is it
because his(and other naysayers) remarks have a good point?
As much as you may hate negative posts towards Beast Machines, I despise the
like of yours even more, which happen to be mindless drivel that attack someone
that disaproves of something in the TF mythos.
Although it probably sounds like I'm venting my anger out at you, it's really
directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees with each
other.
But the sad fact of the matter is, that forumn is much like ours; those who
critise new episodes of The Simpsons are often harrased for not enjoying every
second of Our Favorite Family. But it's impossible for a long-time fan to do
just that. When a character is way out of character, or a story-line is far too
wacky, many viewers do notice. And many viewers don't notice, so,
unfortunately, they inform those posters with a spotful eye that they are
wrong. Usually their responses consist of "It's a cartoon, idiots!", and the
classic "If you don't like it change the damn channel!"(Sound familiar?)
Maybe I'm speaking to you in too much of a mature manner. Go ahead and make ass
jokes at my whole reply; in fact, you can start right here with this comment:
"Beast Machines relies too much on action and chase, the animation lacks any
depth or realism, and the characters have evolved into something other than
themselves"(again, I'm not speaking to you in general, but to all the folks out
there who have nothing better to do than harrass others when they find fault in
something they like). Good-day
-Alex(The #2 Simpsons/Transformers Fan)
SPOOOOOOOOOOOON
directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
television series>>
Disagreements are one thing. But when certain fans decide to insult everyone
who fails to agree with their opinions (pro or con), it really doesn't matter
if it's well-written or utterly unreadable. It's childish at best. And quite
frankly the sheer level of pure venom being spread by fanatics on both side of
this subject every single week is wearing thin. That attitude is the last thing
this, or any, newsgroup needs. And if anyone decides to play that game, my hats
off to anyone who's willing to put the sod in question back in their place.
------------------------------------------------------
101 TOP THINGS TO DO AFTER WINNING THE $65M POWERBALL
#12: fund a new season of Reboot, so that Mairi Welman can
refocus on answering queries as to the coming of season five. <g>
Jack and Co.
>
> Mqan you hit it right on the head I totally agree send Bob Scare home
> he suck in the transformers we need a true fan to writ for our show
> OMICRON BETA SUPREME
has never posted here before?
Octavulg, who also notes a WebTV address...
HFree95819
>who fails to agree with their opinions (pro or con), it really doesn't matter
>if it's well-written or utterly unreadable. It's childish at best. And quite
>frankly the sheer level of pure venom being spread by fanatics on both side
>of
>this subject every single week is wearing thin. That attitude is the last
>thing
>this, or any, newsgroup needs. And if anyone decides to play that game, my
>hats
>off to anyone who's willing to put the sod in question back in their place.
>
This is coming from a "regular" on this NG that seems makes email replies to
rants on this NG (me in particular - granted I didnt clarify my point very
well....) then BLOCKS his email box from replies - even ones that are not going
to be offensive! Anyhoo...I agree that everyone has the right to disagree but
the "Talk to the Hand" schiznit is a just as annoying as the trolls.......oh
and BTW, whether or not the discussions will become less venomous - I doubt it
- flame wars are everywhere because of human nature and the openness and lack
of structure of the forum we are using here! The only forum of debate that the
trolls couldnt invade would be person to person because its impossible to have
a battle of wits with an unarmed person :)
Just my 1.5 cents....
Kranix99
Neale Davidson
everyone
> who fails to agree with their opinions (pro or con), it really doesn't
matter
> if it's well-written or utterly unreadable. It's childish at best. And
quite
> frankly the sheer level of pure venom being spread by fanatics on both
side of
> this subject every single week is wearing thin. That attitude is the last
thing
> this, or any, newsgroup needs. And if anyone decides to play that game, my
hats
> off to anyone who's willing to put the sod in question back in their
place.
Like you yourself have done on more than one occaision, Micheal. So let's
not be so hypocritical. You've been fairly free in throwing around insults
and
venom on your own right, and they're been far more personal than I've
actually
done.
The truth is that I've on occaision been harsher with some of the people
than
I should, and I apologize for that. Getting so many flames and threatening
emails
and posts have taken a major toll on me, and I've not always posted in a
decorum
that I would accept myself. I apologize for the group for those times I've
slipped as
a result of getting frustrated.
However, I do not now, and never will, feel the need to be silenced because
a
few people can't handle a television show being criticized. My opinion is
that Beast
Machines is a rather weak followup of what could have been. I have stated
my
problems with the show, and that's fine. I'll continue to do so.
You're as free not to read my posts as I am to post in the first place.
AlexJ33106
directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
television series>>
>Disagreements are one thing. But when certain fans decide to insult everyone
>who fails to agree with their opinions (pro or con), it really doesn't matter
>if it's well-written or utterly unreadable. It's childish at best. And quite
>frankly the sheer level of pure venom being spread by fanatics on both side of
>this subject every single week is wearing thin. That attitude is the last
thing
>this, or any, newsgroup needs. And if anyone decides to play that game, my
hats
>off to anyone who's willing to put the sod in question back in their place.
That was actually kind of my point. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough; I
thought saying "We can agree to disagree" would be a little too obvious ;P .
Anyway, I fully agree with you. I'm all for intelligent and well-written
arguments, though. That's partially what this newsgroup is for. I've had some
disagreements with people on this message board that never amounted to anything
big; in fact, neither of us flamed or harrased the other at any time. We
actually came to a somewhat mutual agreement through email. I forget this
fellow's name since our conversations started at about the beginning of BW
season 2, but I miss him. Take care. Good-day.
-Alex(The #2 Simpsons/Transformers Fan)
Slvrmist10
short temper not gotten in the way again.
>Although it probably sounds like I'm venting my anger out at you, it's really
>directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
>disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
>television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees with
>each
>other.
I happen to LIKE the "arguments" myself. I even saved some of Neale's posts to
disk. What ticks me off (very badly) is when someone acts like nobody should
have an opinion. I read somewhere once that if any two people agree exactly on
everything, then one of them is irrelevant... I don't flame rational posts
supporting BM, and I don't like when someone flames rational posts from people
who don't like it.
White Dove
(As for myself, I just don't care anymore about the show. The exact
opposite of love isn't hate. It's total apathy. Neale must still see some
slight redeeming qualities in it to be able to hate it. For me it isn't worth
that.)
Neale Davidson
> > Although it probably sounds like I'm venting my anger out at you, it's
really
> > directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
> > disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
> > television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees
with each
> > other.
>
I came here for a good argument, but this is just contradiction!
Neale Davidson
review
> of the latest BM ep, and I was wondering if you could e-mail it to me.
They're
> really somewhat thereputic to read when having to deal with BM...
I didn't bother reviewing the episode, just made a few comments about it.
But, look
at it this way, BM's half-way over now. :)
Yakko Tank
Neale Davidson wrote:
> > > Although it probably sounds like I'm venting my anger out at you, it's
> really
> > > directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
> > > disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
> > > television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees
> with each
> > > other.
> >
> > No, they don't.
>
> I came here for a good argument, but this is just contradiction!
An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish
a proposition.
No it isn't.
-Frank
(Oh, I'm sorry, this is Abuse.)
Bored? No better place to go than Yakko's Beast Wars Japan Page!
http://members.xoom.com/Yakko2564/bw.html
Neale Davidson
> An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish
> a proposition.
> No it isn't.
> (Oh, I'm sorry, this is Abuse.)
Abuse? Oh, that explains it then. Stupid git. :)
Vice Grip and Bladeless
>> Hiyas, sorry to bother, but for some reason my browser didn't show your
>review
>> of the latest BM ep, and I was wondering if you could e-mail it to me.
>They're
>> really somewhat thereputic to read when having to deal with BM...
>
>I didn't bother reviewing the episode, just made a few comments about it.
>But, look
>at it this way, BM's half-way over now. :)
I like it when BM is halfway over...wait, did I say that out loud? :)
--
Yes, you have the right to your opinion, but you are 100% wrong.
There are always naysayers that will say nay.
I'm happier than a Terrorcon with two connector pegs!!
Wear a Stampy around your neck, you'll get chicks!
You can't surrender if you're always running away...
+ /| (http://www.wildrun.com/ ) |\ Help! My .sig
+ p / |(email: orio...@sprynet.com)| \ was stuck in a
+NNON| |NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN| |NN vise by
+ b \_|==============================|_/=O Dave Van Domelen!
TF Fancode: G+++ G1- G2+++ BW+++ MW+++ BM+ FR FW+ M++ #477 D+ AA+ N+++ W++
OP+ MUSH-- BC++ CN+ OM+ P357
AlexJ33106
really
> > directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
> > disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
> > television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees
with each
> > other.
>
> No, they don't.
Have you ever been to alt.tv.simpsons? One person says new episodes suck,
another says they're the best ones, a troll says both parties are taking the
show way too seriously, one guy says it should be cancelled now...
><GD&R>
...or am I just missing a reference you're throwing out at me? Because I
haven't the slightest clue what that abbreviation stands for. Good-day.
-Alex(The #2 Simpsons/Transformers Fan)
zac_w...@my-deja.com
"Neale Davidson" <tfn...@home.com> wrote:
> L
> I
> F
> E
> ,
>
> D
> O
> N
> '
> T
>
> T
> A
> L
> K
>
> T
> O
>
> M
> E
>
> A
> B
> O
> U
> T
>
> L
> I
> F
> E
>
> My god, we're watching 'The Rebirth' stretched
> out into 13 episodes! Noooo!
Or we're watching a much cooler much
better produced and written story that just
happens to touch on some of the same themes
that were (almost negligently) brushed by
Rebirth, and since it takes place in the same
universe by necessity and well-constructed design
utilizes some of the same devices.
Depends on your POV.
> Actually, it seems like Skir watched Rebirth
> and designed a new series as an extension of that
> three parter.
Not to me on anything more then a surface
level. But it's plot does pick up on a number of threads
from that ep and ties into it in some very interresting/cool
ways.
> It makes sense, considering the basic premise,
> and the (gross) mischaracterizations
> of several characters.
I'll give you Ratrap and Megs as being quite
questionable in "Weak Compponent" but that aside
I have to say BM has done a WONDERFUL job on the
charecters, both the "old" staying in-charecter for
their new situation and the "new" for just being COOL! :)
At least in my book.
> Of course, today's episode was /ripped/ right
>out of 'Return of the Jedi' as well.
I really didn't see that either.
> (He's getting pushed to the dark side! Look!)
>
Maybe a *little* bit there, but Megs wasn't trying
to push him to the Darkside in any way. And in
any case, Primal DID give in, and caused Armagedon!
Go Primal! ;)
> We had more
> vehicons 'derez' in this episode.
I missed this. Where? If it was after the
Keys and the Chamber it's understandable IMO
> Lastly, again, we have a few bits pulled from
> the 'ether' to drive the episode. The 'cool' factor
> was the 'Plasma Energy Chamber'.
That WAS Awesome, wasn't it. :)
Both VS and this were perfect fits for this story
and great links to the past. I'm really thrilled about
the inclusion of so much great G1 here.
> Another line. "Don't worry, Organics won't be affected." Yep,
>confirmation. The Maximals are not technological /at all/.
It does NO such thing.
For one thing that would contradict specific
statements made to the contrary previously in the
series. Did you maybe consider that Primal was perfectly
WILLING to sacrifice himself and everyone else
to do the "Matrix's will"? He was plenty messed up enough.
Also, look at the context. He had just ordered
them all to go to beast mode. Very possible he expected
these modes to sheild them more from the energy,
like Beast modes did in BW, or Pretender Shells
did against the Underbase in the Comic.
> Okay, more seriously, the execution of this episode
> was the best of the series,
Agreed! This ep. kicked @$$. :) Good series,
great ep. IMO
> and Megatron, after 13 episodes, is /finally/
> resembling more of his former self.
Rather, he was himself all along (with
the possible exception of Weak Component again)WE simply
didn't have all the info till today. :)
> Sadly,
> this comes far far too
> late to save the series as a whole.
Luckily, it doesn't need to for many many people. :)
> If anyone is still confused about 'organic vs technology'
> after this episode, they need to get to
> a shrink, quick. There was no subtlety here.
Who could have missed it? Organics versus
Technology has been the completely overt conflict since
near the start. Just as the Theme they've been
building to all along IMO, "the need for Ballence"
really starts to come to a head here too.
> At least it's being portrayed
> that both sides are
> evil...
Rather, either side in the extream, to the
complete exlusion of the other is evil. In otherwords...
Yep, "Ballence" again. ;)
> but... the cliffhanger didn't hit me.
>
Wow. I just kinda feal sorry for you then.
(no offense) This was OMHO probably the best TF
Cliffhanger ever. I think I may be more excited
by it than the end of Agenda, or nearly just as
much. :) I'm just crossing my fingers that
BM pulls out a better conclusion then BW did.
-ZacWilliam, who's DYING for some BM toys
and Season 2 can't come quick enough. I LOVE Transformers. :)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Neo J. Menasor and Eevee
>to
>disk.
*coughcoughasskissercoughcough*
Sorry...couldn't resist.
The One and Only: Neo J. Menasor
Lord of the Dance
Supreme Commander of the Flying Grape Tree
Follower of Dreadite-sama
Lord of the Dance.
The Covenent of Primus, it's a COOKBOOK!!!
Neale Davidson
I've been told I've got a nice posterior.. but I don't think she's ever seen
it to
want to kiss it, actually.. so forgive me if I feel a little lost. :P
The Frozen Food Guy
Anthony Wilmoth
hope this does not mean you are implying that all people with webtv's
are not up to your level.
Orion P
" I keep my friends close and my enemies closer"
SonicMK
fingertips. Having Optimus watch as his friends are 'destroyed' really looked
like the Throne Room scene from
the end of Jedi. (He's getting pushed to the dark side! Look!)<<
Hmmm.. I've seen scenes like that in alot of things made before Star Wars,
it's a pretty common theme actually.
- SonicMK
Neo J. Menasor and Eevee
>it to
>want to kiss it, actually.. so forgive me if I feel a little lost. :P
Lol....gotta hand it to ya Neale, I don't agree with you...but you're still
pretty funny.
Neale Davidson
seen
> >it to want to kiss it, actually.. so forgive me if I feel a little lost.
:P
>
> Lol....gotta hand it to ya Neale, I don't agree with you...but you're
still
> pretty funny.
*sniffle* You don't think it's nice... well, dang. :P
Neale Davidson
> hope this does not mean you are implying that all people with webtv's
> are not up to your level.
The 'problem' with Web TV , like AOL, is that it allows a wide-band of
people to
get on the net and voice their opinions. While this doesn't sound bad,
here's
the problem.
Too few of the 'newbies' brought on by WebTV and AOL know nettiquite, and
many often feel entitled to act certain ways because of how they pay for the
service, coming from a lack of understanding on how the internet really
works.
Lastly.. before AOL and WebTV was popularized, the average age of an
internet user was considerably older than it is now, consisting mostly of
college students and staff.
Túrin
>
> > > Although it probably sounds like I'm venting my anger out at you, it's
> really
> > > directed at the majority of the fan base who fail to recognize that
> > > disagreements are welcome, and expected, in a newsgroup pertaining to a
> > > television series. Look at alt.tv.simpsons. EVERYONE there disagrees
> with each
> > > other.
> >
> > No, they don't.
>
> Have you ever been to alt.tv.simpsons? One person says new episodes suck,
> another says they're the best ones, a troll says both parties are taking the
> show way too seriously, one guy says it should be cancelled now...
Sorry... it was a joke. Look at your last sentence and then mine.
<GD&R> means "grinning, ducking, and running."
Thylacine 2000
zac_w...@my-deja.com wrote:
Quick point: Maybe the Maximals' new battle cry is "For
Cybertron!", but it could just as easily be
"Cobra-lalalalalalalalalalallalalalalalala!" Lookit the vine-bomb
weapons.
> > My god, we're watching 'The Rebirth' stretched
> > out into 13 episodes! Noooo!
>
> Or we're watching a much cooler much
> better produced and written story that just
> happens to touch on some of the same themes
> that were (almost negligently) brushed by
> Rebirth, and since it takes place in the same
> universe by necessity and well-constructed design
> utilizes some of the same devices.
> Depends on your POV.
How's this for a POV:
I never saw "Rebirth", and thought the Plasma Engine was a made-up
MacGuffin from Skir & Co. until I was told otherwise. And now that
I've heard otherwise... I don't really know how I feel about it.
On the one hand, continuity is nice, I guess. But I'm tired of
Beast Machines saying that *everything* from G1 was a legend--and
at the same time is so extraordinarily powerful that it can
uncreate everything, more or less. The Oracle? A legend. Vector
Sigma? A legend too. Plasma Chamber? Ditto. What'll happen in
season 2--they'll all be saved by the Tooth Fairy?
Either way, just looking at the way this episode handled its
information, I have to say it was sorrowfully rushed. The Plasma
Engine was, apparently, a rather obscure point in G1 history;
furthermore, they didn't really go into why it was there
("functioned as a remote control for Cybertron..." bwuh?), how it
was so easy to get to (why did everybody forget about it if it was
but an elevator ride away?), or how Primal could control it.
Problem: Okay, since this show has given us the decidedly flaky
notion that you can program a liquid, I suppose we can accept the
notion that the Diagnostic Drone could, by "straining its
circuits", reprogram something like the Oracle and have it actually
summon Primal's mind, show him illusions, and convince him of the
proper path of action. Okey-dokey.
So how did Primal get control of the Plasma Engine? Did the drone
"pretend" to infuse him with the Oracle's powers as well?
("Oracle".... I'm getting tired of that name. I honestly think
that's one of the sillier major bits of canon we've ever gotten,
right up there with the notion that a planet can have an organic
living core...)
> > It makes sense, considering the basic premise,
> > and the (gross) mischaracterizations
> > of several characters.
>
> I'll give you Ratrap and Megs as being quite
> questionable in "Weak Compponent" but that aside
> I have to say BM has done a WONDERFUL job on the
> charecters, both the "old" staying in-charecter for
> their new situation and the "new" for just being COOL! :)
> At least in my book.
Megatron hasn't been himself throughout the complete run of the
season (in the very few episodes that he showed up at all, mind
you). He was actually somewhat recognizable in today's ep, one of
the reasons that I actually found #13 watchable.
>
> > Another line. "Don't worry, Organics won't be affected." Yep,
> >confirmation. The Maximals are not technological /at all/.
>
> It does NO such thing.
>
> For one thing that would contradict specific
> statements made to the contrary previously in the
> series. Did you maybe consider that Primal was perfectly
> WILLING to sacrifice himself and everyone else
> to do the "Matrix's will"? He was plenty messed up enough.
>
> Also, look at the context. He had just ordered
> them all to go to beast mode. Very possible he expected
> these modes to sheild them more from the energy,
> like Beast modes did in BW, or Pretender Shells
> did against the Underbase in the Comic.
I don't think that was what Neale meant. Primal rather explicitly
stated that the Engine would destroy all electric systems, down to
every last diode, throughout all of Cybertron. Using it at any
time, with that as its understood power of course, would very
likely mean destroying the Maximals.... and of course, all of
Transformer history and all semblence of respect for the concept
that Transformers are, or at least were, robots. Even technorganic
Primal has mechanical bits in him--maybe just his arms would fall
off, maybe only Nightscream's ears and wings would be vaporized,
but either way it's not the most strategically useful thing to use.
Which is precisely why I like it.
You see, I think the writers fudged here again, but in this case it
worked out nicely as a somewhat Strangelovian black-comedy. The
climax of this episode, a nifty little sequence that I've rewatched
about ten times, came down to two loonies unleashing their Doomsday
Devices at each other--it actually sort of resembled a playground
brawl, or the final confrontation between two especially munchkinny
RPG characters. Primal goes nuts, Megatron goes nuts by taunting
him to push the button, Primal goes nuttier by pushing it, and
Megatron goes really beautifully, gloriously, almost-Beast-Wars
respectably uber-nuts by deciding that he'd rather end the world in
an apocalypse of his own design than allow the Maximals to win by
ending the world on *their* terms.
So he pushes his own Big Red Button, and the world goes "poof!" a
second time. It was Mutually Assured Destruction at its most
puerile and absurdly hilarious. Granted, it could just as easily
have been acted out by stick figures, but either way it was funny.
> > Okay, more seriously, the execution of this episode
> > was the best of the series,
>
> Agreed! This ep. kicked @$$. :) Good series,
> great ep. IMO
Sub-mediocre series, great episode *by the standards of that
series*, good episode by absolute standards. I think that "End of
the Line" is, along with "Fires of the Past", the only BM episode
I'm likely to ever watch again without fastforwarding through
significant chunks.
> > and Megatron, after 13 episodes, is /finally/
> > resembling more of his former self.
>
> Rather, he was himself all along (with
> the possible exception of Weak Component again)WE simply
> didn't have all the info till today. :)
Gotta disagree, again. Megatron was at his *most* obviously
non-Megatronness in "Weak Component", but he's really been a
neutered, inconsequential little Horace of a shadow of his former
glory all throughout the season. I *still* say he didn't know
about the spark-recyclings: he didn't explicitly acknowledge
Rhinox' existence, rather he only admitted that he knew Tankorr was
betraying him and so he allowed that to continue. Something in the
way this element was handled struck me as being rather off..... I
think because it was too open-ended and vague--it assumed too much,
on both Megatron's, Tankorr's, and the audience's part. Still, I
should have learned by now not to expect Beast Wars.
> > Sadly,
> > this comes far far too
> > late to save the series as a whole.
>
> Luckily, it doesn't need to for many many people. :)
It needed to for me. Maybe not too little--maybe--but regardless,
too late.
You know, most of this season just *didn't need to happen*. What
happened in ep13 that actually referred to previous episodes?
Episode 5? Episode 6? The only episodes that really mattered to
the finale were the whole Tankorr sub-thread (10, 11, 12).
Frankly, they could have covered all the series' numerous (and
rather inconsequential, I might add) flashbacks in a four-minute
sequence at the beginning of a single episode that directly
followed "Nemesis:2", and thus maybe have had more freedom of
movement in which to develop the characters throughout the season.
Of course, while I'm making wishes, I'd once again suggest that the
writers ought to have scrapped the whole BW-Character-In-A-Can
disaster of a sub-plot....
> > If anyone is still confused about 'organic vs technology'
> > after this episode, they need to get to
> > a shrink, quick. There was no subtlety here.
>
> Who could have missed it? Organics versus
> Technology has been the completely overt conflict since
> near the start. Just as the Theme they've been
> building to all along IMO, "the need for Ballence"
> really starts to come to a head here too.
But if Primal was willing *at the start* to erase all technology
from the planet, period, then I don't think that's much of a
balanced view on his part.
> > At least it's being portrayed
> > that both sides are
> > evil...
>
> Rather, either side in the extream, to the
> complete exlusion of the other is evil. In otherwords...
> Yep, "Ballence" again. ;)
I definitely find Primal somewhat more interesting now that he's a
psychopath. He isn't weepy or angsty anymore--he's an unstable
loony-toon. I root for Megatron. Well, if Megatron ever shows up
in Beast Machines.
Speaking of which--no new body for Megs this season, meaning no
new-bodied toy until, I'd wager, mid-summer. Hurrah.
> > but... the cliffhanger didn't hit me.
> >
>
> Wow. I just kinda feal sorry for you then.
> (no offense) This was OMHO probably the best TF
> Cliffhanger ever. I think I may be more excited
> by it than the end of Agenda, or nearly just as
> much. :) I'm just crossing my fingers that
> BM pulls out a better conclusion then BW did.
I loved the conclusion here, again because it was so bitter and
petty and mad. "You're going to kill us all? Well, let me tell
you something, brother--I'M going to kill us all TOO! You kill me,
I kill you right back! Bwa!" Maybe I'm a spiteful person, or
maybe I appreciate irony--likely both--but either way I was
giggling all the way through.
(Oh, I also liked this ep. rather much because Nightscream played
almost no role in it whatsoever. His few lines were delivered
remarkably snottiness-free; he was actually similarly-mellowed in
ep12. I guess the writers have decided to stop trying to put him
"over" with the viewers.)
Now... my overall take on Beast Machines remains a negative one.
When I watch TransFormers, I don't want to see annoying anime
light-tricks, chase after chase after chase, or new characters
introduced only to be disregarded for the sake of everybody finding
out who they were recycled from and then only talking about the
*old* guy for the rest of the season. The show had a good
season-ending, so I guess I can say it had something good going for
it.
TTT, better than nothing....
--
T T T
Random Cartoon Quote of the Day (from memory!):
"Remember, kids: If you don't exercise with Binky, you'll grow up
to be WORTHLESS!"
--Binky the Clown, "A Garfield Halloween"
Torca
up with the toy markets you get those, compound it with there being a
half dozen continuities, and you try not to create a few screw ups. Do
you think that if BW was created independant of public opinions you
would have seen stuff like the TMs, TM2s, and TM2 megatron? (who knew
that volcanos were so adept at reprogramming transformation cogs?) But
little kids just love seeing reworkings of the same characters (hence
the fame of pokemon and digimon). Some problems can be fixed when you
realize their technology level (shrinking devices, nanotech (hence the
complex transformation), anti-gravity...) i assume that the key program
creates a very accurate hologram which has many of the same properties
(yes i realize that they arte treated as solid objects but im trying
here! lol :) My major problem with it is the way they transform, its
more like shapeshifting, and the way its slowly turning into dungeons
and dragons 2400 A.D.
And im from southern cali, we just shoot ya! lol
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
John Saathoff
I wasn't going to respond to this thread until I saw that post
mentioning the webtv address.
I feel the originator of this thread has the right to express his
opinion as well as anyone else does in this group, without someone else
putting him down. Now even though I don't necessarily agree with Neal,
( I thought it was a good episode even though it had a "to be continued"
on it) I am not about to belittle him for stating his opinion.
Anyway, have a good holiday....
-insert witty sig here, ahh forget it-
"I'm the only spider with nine long legs."
zal...@my-deja.com
> The 'problem' with Web TV , like
AOL, is that it allows a wide-band
of
> people to
> get on the net and voice their
opinions. While this doesn't sound
bad,
It Isn't.....
> here's
> the problem.
>
> Too few of the 'newbies' brought
on by WebTV and AOL know
nettiquite, and
> many often feel entitled to act
certain ways because of how they
pay for the
> service, coming from a lack of
understanding on how the internet
really
> works.
That still doesn't justify putting
down all webtv users.....
> Lastly.. before AOL and WebTV
was popularized, the average age
of an
> internet user was considerably
older than it is now, consisting
mostly of
> college students and staff.
So what your saying is that
college students and staff rather
than the average joe like me who
decided that taking care of my
daughter was more important than
of going to college are more
mature and better than me.
Nah, I don't think so......
I'm not saying I'm better than
them, don't get me wrong, I'm not
like that.
zac_w...@my-deja.com
Thylacine 2000 <gre...@NOSPAMfas.harvard.edu> wrote:
It's fine. And no less valid than anyone
else's. But all the same I don't agree with
it practicly at all. :)
> I never saw "Rebirth", and thought the Plasma Engine was a made-up
> MacGuffin from Skir & Co. until I was told otherwise.
This is one of the things that's made me
quite happy with the way BM has worked in vital
parts of G1. It's managed to do it in a way to
please old fans but that doesn't confuse people
who didn't see G1. It doesn't make them feal like
they missed anything while giving us a nice treat.
Good job. :)
> And now that I've heard otherwise... I don't really
> know how I feel about it. On the one hand, continuity
> is nice, I guess. But I'm tired of
> Beast Machines saying that *everything* from G1
> was a legend--and at the same time is so extraordinarily
> powerful that it can uncreate everything, more or less.
I'm all for continuity no question, especially
when it fits the story so neatly and is worked in this
seamlessly. TF is probably the only US cartoon EVER that
has held together a single continuity for this many
years and over this many shows! That's something to be
proud of IMO.
As for the power levels: That WAS what the
Plasma Energy Chamber was in G1. (just watched
the eps. tonight :) Increadably powerful and able to
uncreate everything. Heck, the thing almost killed all TF's
and blew up the sun. Same with the Key to VS. The fact is
it simply DID have the power to turn organics to techno-stuff.
Most important to me is that the use of both these
artifacts is a perfect match for the story.
> The Oracle? A legend. Vector
> Sigma? A legend too. Plasma Chamber? Ditto.
>
BW established early that the Maxie Elders made
all history of the Great War off limits, so it's not
surprising that many things such as this have fallen
into the realm of myth and rumor.
> Either way, just looking at the way this episode handled its
> information, I have to say it was sorrowfully rushed.
I don't feal that way at all. It gave us
what we needed to know instead of bogging things
down in ussless and pointless exposition.
> they didn't really go into why it was there
> ("functioned as a remote control for Cybertron..." bwuh?),
Why it's there isn't important to this story.
(and wasn't delt with at all in G1 Rebirth 1-3 either)
They did identify it as from the same era as the Oracle
though, so both may yet get more exposition in S2.
> how it was so easy to get to (why did everybody forget
> about it if it was but an elevator ride away?),
ummm... because it's a huge plannet honeycombed to
the core, it's existence was a secret/rumor, and the
Oracle/Drone told Primal exactly how to find the elevator and
gave him the power to open the way.
>or how Primal could control it.
>
He was granted the power through his link to
the Oracle/Matrix, he says so.
> Problem: Okay, since this show has given us the
> decidedly flaky notion that you can program a liquid,
I didn't get that picture at all. I figure
Ratty gave the program on how to make the catalyst
to the vat's computers and it preceeded to so alter
the chemicals within.
> I suppose we can accept the
> notion that the Diagnostic Drone could, by "straining its
> circuits", reprogram something like the Oracle and
> have it actually summon Primal's mind, show him illusions,
> and convince him of the proper path of action. Okey-dokey.
Tankor and the Drone HAVE control over
the Oracle and Vector Sigma with the Key. That's
how they were able to deny Primal access last ep.
> So how did Primal get control of the Plasma Engine?
> Did the drone "pretend" to infuse him with the Oracle's
> powers as well?
Nope. Since they have control of the Oracle
they just used it to give it to him was my impression.
( though I suppose it's also possible that he always had
the power once the Oracle linked him to the Matrix in
Reformating.)
> ("Oracle".... I'm getting tired of that name. I honestly think
> that's one of the sillier major bits of canon we've ever gotten,
> right up there with the notion that a planet can have an organic
> living core...)
The Oracle's pretty cool, IMHO. The organic
core thing IS kinda weird though, at least as a term,
but we haven't got a real explanation of it yet.
> > I'll give you Ratrap and Megs as being quite
> > questionable in "Weak Compponent" but that aside
> > I have to say BM has done a WONDERFUL job on the
> > charecters, both the "old" staying in-charecter for
> > their new situation and the "new" for just being COOL! :)
> > At least in my book.
>
> Megatron hasn't been himself throughout the complete run of the
> season
Give me examples and we'll see, but as of now
I'd say he's been perfectly fine (save, I admitted,
perhaps Weak Component).
> I don't think that was what Neale meant.
>
I don't know, I think I've seen him make the
same erronious assumption (that the maximals are
entirely non-robotic) in another post. If he means
"the Maximals are entirely pro-organic" then he's
got a slightly better case, but I'd say that really
only aplies to Primal at best.
> You see, I think the writers fudged here again, but in this case it
> worked out nicely as a somewhat Strangelovian black-comedy. The
> climax of this episode, a nifty little sequence that I've rewatched
> about ten times, came down to two loonies unleashing their Doomsday
> Devices at each other-
I can see that angle. But I found it MUCH more
dramatic and dynamic then that description sugests (at least
to me) the conflict between Megs and Primal, (and Tankor too;)
was just so tense, with old enemies (and friends) facing off
no one backing down, all of them pushed to the edge, and finally
pushed beyond. It was the charecterazation and interply I
loved here, at least as much, and probably more than, the
classic nuclear parralel. There was irony, and comedy from a
perspective, but it was the Tragidy and Drama that made the
scene for me.
> > Agreed! This ep. kicked @$$. :) Good series,
> > great ep. IMO
>
> Sub-mediocre series,
Well, it's all opinion. I stand by "Great" though. :)
> great episode *by the standards of that
> series*,
I'd say Great by any Series. This ranks up there
with my favorite BW and G1 eps easily.
> >
> > Rather, he was himself all along (with
> > the possible exception of Weak Component again)WE simply
> > didn't have all the info till today. :)
>
> Gotta disagree, again. Megatron was at his *most* obviously
> non-Megatronness in "Weak Component", but he's really been a
> neutered, inconsequential little Horace of a shadow of his former
> glory all throughout the season.
And I have to disagree right back. Megatron as
BM began had won. Cybertron was HIS and there were only
a handfull of, he believed, completely ineffectual Maxies
left. Why deal with them himself, when he can arrange
the grand scheme that we finally saw the truth of this
week and have Rhino/kor and the other Vehicons do the work
for him? That seems perfect Megs to me. Aside from the
conclusion of Weak Component, what specific action's
bothered you?
> I *still* say he didn't know
> about the spark-recyclings:
I just think that's REALLY unlikely considring all
we know at this point. Granted the evidence is
circumstancial, but I see a whole lot more of it
behind him knowing then not, especially with these
latest revalations that he had planned for this (or
something like it) all along.
> You know, most of this season just *didn't need to happen*.
>
Well, neither did 85% of BW and ALL of G1 if you
go by this kind of absolute "Over-plot necessary" standard.
But lets see...
> What happened in ep13 that actually referred to
> previous episodes?
You need: #1,2,and 3 to set up the series
#6 to introduce Nightscream, organics,
and the seeds Ratty uses.
#7,8 and 9 to set up Tankor, and Primal's
visions, and their mission about organics.
#10,11 and 12 to set up the organic core
/vines/catylist, The Key to Vector Sigma,
and Tankor's schemeing.
That leaves, out of 13, only 2 eps early on that arn't
absolutely vital. Sounds like really a good average to me. :)
> > Who could have missed it? Organics versus
> > Technology has been the completely overt conflict since
> > near the start. Just as the Theme they've been
> > building to all along IMO, "the need for Ballence"
> > really starts to come to a head here too.
>
> But if Primal was willing *at the start* to erase all technology
> from the planet, period, then I don't think that's much of a
> balanced view on his part.
1) I don't think Primal was at ALL
willing to wipe out technology from the planet
at the start. I don't even think he was by the middle
(bringing back organics is not = to wiping out machines)
or even by the start of this ep. It was only after
all the weight of all the events of the whole season
and BW before, bore down on him in those last
moments that he crossed the line.
2)I never said Primal had a ballanced veiw.
I think he's just as wrong as Megatron. (IMO Cheetor's
propably been the most level headed in this respect)
My point is I think it's pretty easy to see Balance
shaping up as the overall theme for the show itself.
> I definitely find Primal somewhat more interesting
> now that he's a psychopath.
I don't think he ever really crossed that line
before this ep. Before then he was stressed to the
point of being borderline at times, and definately
unstable, but only today did he lose it. It may
have only been a momentary lapse though, we'll
have to wait and see how he feals about the horrible
thing he did.
> I root for Megatron.
>
Not me. A planet of boring mindless drones sucks.
I guess I'm with Cheetor in BM. He hasn't always
made the right choices (being inexperienced still),
but overall he's been very practicle,and made some very
level-headed calls.
> Maybe I'm a spiteful person, or
> maybe I appreciate irony--likely both--but either way I was
> giggling all the way through.
Not my reaction at all. Like I said above,
it was the drama and the charecters that struck me.
I was on the edge of my seat over the confruntation. :)
> Now... my overall take on Beast Machines remains a negative one.
> When I watch TransFormers, I don't want to see annoying anime
> light-tricks, chase after chase after chase, or new characters
> introduced only to be disregarded for the sake of everybody finding
> out who they were recycled from and then only talking about the
> *old* guy for the rest of the season.
What I look for is good animation, cool charecters,
well done voice acting, exciting stories, dramatic
confrontations and battles, high stakes, and maybe a little
suspence/mystery all set solidly in the TF Universe I
know and love.
Far as I'm concerned BM delivered hands down. :)
-ZacWilliam, who really can't wait for the next ep.
Darn it. ;)
Y2K Ravage
>>to
>>disk.
>
>*coughcoughasskissercoughcough*
Man and wife.... BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
wodahS rehtnaP
Slvrmist10
>
>An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish
>a proposition.
>
>No it isn't.
Well, here's what the entry in Merriam-Webster's Colligiate Dictionary says:
ar*gu*ment (noun)
[Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin argumentum, from arguere]
First appeared 14th Century
1 obsolete : an outward sign : INDICATION
2 a : a reason given in proof or rebuttal
b : discourse intended to persuade
3 a : the act or process of arguing : ARGUMENTATION
b : a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion
c : QUARREL, DISAGREEMENT
4 : an abstract or summary esp. of a literary work <a later editor added an ~
to the poem>
5 : the subject matter esp. of a literary work
6 a : one of the independent variables upon whose value that of a function
depends
b : a substantive (as the direct object of a transitive verb) that is
required by a predicate in grammar
c : the angle assigned to a complex number when it is plotted in a complex
plane using polar coordinates -- called also amplitude -- compare ABSOLUTE
VALUE 2
White Dove
(waiting for the post from someone saying they don't accept
Merriam-Webster as canon...)
Slvrmist10
>almost no role in it whatsoever. His few lines were delivered
>remarkably snottiness-free; he was actually similarly-mellowed in
>ep12. I guess the writers have decided to stop trying to put him
>"over" with the viewers.)
Either that or bat-boy is smoking some of the local plantlife :)
White Dove
(Wow... lookit the colors, dude...)
(Note for the humor impaired: The preceeding is a joke)
Slvrmist10
>>>to
>>>disk.
>>
>>*coughcoughasskissercoughcough*
That's disgusting. And I don't see why you'd want to go telling everyone that.
(I can only assume you're referring to yourself because I know you can't be
referring to me)
>
>Man and wife.... BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
>
>wodahS rehtnaP
First off, spelling your name backwards doesn't do a damn thing, Shadow
Panther. It isn't even funny.
Second, Neale's already married.
Third, I doubt I ever will be for certain reasons.
And lastly I have told you to stay away from me. I have little doubt you'll
start sending insulting e-mails again soon, which I'll TOS as usual. I'd do a
heck of a lot worse should I ever catch you in person. Just because it's been a
year doesn't mean I've forgot what you did to A12. You helped kill a friend of
mine you lil punk... you've already pissed me off beyond any chance of
reconciliation.
You'd best never visit West Virginia, and hope I never go to Florida...
White Dove
Zepherimus
Neale Davidson wrote in message ...
>> >I've been told I've got a nice posterior.. but I don't think she's ever
>seen
>> >it to want to kiss it, actually.. so forgive me if I feel a little lost.
>:P
>>
>> Lol....gotta hand it to ya Neale, I don't agree with you...but you're
>still
>> pretty funny.
>
>*sniffle* You don't think it's nice... well, dang. :P
But on a more serious note , *ahem* You should probably tell your BM
comments to a pillow or a nice wall , lord knows you'll get a better
response than
<Drumroll>
No 5. I don't like you
No 4. Rag Rag Rag
No 3. All you do is bitch
No 2. I like BM so you are wrong
and the Number one response is :
I am sick of hearing other peoples opinions , especially when the differ
from mine.
Zepherimus throws the card , and we hear the sound of Glass breaking.
Zepherimus
At least the man has legitimate reasons for hating the show besides " BM
SUX "
SPOOOOOOOOOOOON
I am sick of hearing other peoples opinions , especially when the differ
from mine.
>>
Ironic you only see this in others, seeing as this is the tone darn near
everyone of Neale's replies take. But we are often blinded by the obvious if it
goes against our own beliefs.
------------------------------------------------------
101 TOP THINGS TO DO AFTER WINNING THE $65M POWERBALL
#12: fund a new season of Reboot, so that Mairi Welman can
refocus on answering queries as to the coming of season five. <g>
SPOOOOOOOOOOOON
AOL, is that it allows a wide-band
of people to get on the net and voice their
opinions. While this doesn't sound
know
nettiquite, and many often feel entitled to act
certain ways because of how they
pay for the service, coming from a lack of
understanding on how the internet
was popularized, the average age
of an internet user was considerably
older than it is now, consisting
mostly of college students and staff. >>
I think this sums up Neale's take on the opinions of others quite perfectly.
Anyone can get online now, which he equates to low intellect, which then
translates into bandwidth being wasted on the opinions of people other than
himself and the "Elite".
Thank you for coming clean on this Neale. I think many here suspected you were
nothing but a pseudo-intellectial snob, and now you've confirmed it for us all.
Your honesty is quite refreshing. Again, I thank you.
Laurie Edwards
>people to
>get on the net and voice their opinions. While this doesn't sound bad,
>here's
>the problem.
>
>Too few of the 'newbies' brought on by WebTV and AOL know nettiquite, and
>many often feel entitled to act certain ways because of how they pay for the
>service, coming from a lack of understanding on how the internet really
>works.
>
>Lastly.. before AOL and WebTV was popularized, the average age of an
>internet user was considerably older than it is now, consisting mostly of
>college students and staff.
>Neale Davidson
The elitist garbage just never ends, does it?
Laurie Edwards
Go JAZZ--The Ring in '99!!!
endo...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/endora60/history.html
Anthony Oster
>
>
>
> Of course, we could easily say that it was far better when only the
> military was using it, before snot-nosed college kids got on it and
> screwed it up.
*hi-fives KnightHeart* You know I was just about to say the same thing
=^)
Anthony
Neale Davidson
--
Neale Davidson - TFN...@home.com
Keeper of the Protoform Project - http://members.xoom.com/TFNeale/index.htm
"Beast Machines: Heroes don't use guns, but they do commit genocide."
> I think this sums up Neale's take on the opinions of others quite
perfectly.
> Anyone can get online now, which he equates to low intellect, which then
> translates into bandwidth being wasted on the opinions of people other
than
> himself and the "Elite".
No, I just meant that with the 'every guy' in there, and the sheer numbers
of 'newbies'
to the net, the reputation comes in that everyone on WebTV is a 'newbie'.
> Thank you for coming clean on this Neale. I think many here suspected you
were
> nothing but a pseudo-intellectial snob, and now you've confirmed it for us
all.
> Your honesty is quite refreshing. Again, I thank you.
Micheal, you're an ass.
*plonk*
Anthony Wilmoth
didint know i still needed to be in college and have a computer to do so
(since i have graduated and sold my computer). I honestly thought this
was a place where anyone could post to talk about their favorite toys,
Transformers. Please, tell me where i can sign up for your net classes
Neale, so you can enlighten all of the webtv users on how you would like
us to act on-line from now on. Thanks again!
Would anyone like to buy a webtv?? I am wondering if Prof. Neale would
take webtv's as credit toward his class?
Finback
> >> I came here for a good argument, but this is just contradiction!
> >
> >An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish
>
> >a proposition.
> >
> >No it isn't.
>
> Well, here's what the entry in Merriam-Webster's Colligiate Dictionary
> says:
>
>
[snip]
> (waiting for the post from someone saying they don't
> accept
> Merriam-Webster as canon...)
Not if it interrupts a Python sketch :)
And now look up Pythonesque - it's a word!
--
+--------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Marcus Good aka "Finback" | "That which is not dead |
| goo...@ses.curtin.edu.au | can eternal lie, |
| http://student.curtin.edu.au/~egood | And with strange aeons |
+--------------------------------------------+ even death may die." |
| "Something in me, dark and sticky, | -- HP Lovecraft, |
| All the time it's getting strong..." | "Call of Cthulhu". |
| - Peter Gabriel, "Digging In The Dirt"| |
+--------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
Neale Davidson
First, I never said everyone on WebTV was like that. I didn't even /hint/ at
that. I did say that too few people on WebTV and AOL used 'nettiquite'. This
is laregly due to the lack of pressure to do so by these companies. Users
aren't taught about FAQs, posting guidelines, etc.. the kind of stuff that
most colleges require you to learn before you get your accounts.
I didn't mean to sound elitist in my post, but I guess that if you want to
feel
like a martyr for no reason, then feel free to do so. Be offended by
whatever
means you can be offended. Hate people for whatever imagined insult you
want.
Be a loser all you want. It's got nothing to do with who your ISP is, but
your attitude. I gave an honest answer to why WebTV has the reputation it
does. I'm sorry if you didn't like it, but it's pretty much dead on, and
your reply
did absolutely nothing to help reverse that trend.
Shayna Davidson
Y2K Ravage <djet...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991218200847...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
> >I happen to LIKE the "arguments" myself. I even saved some of Neale's
posts
> >>to
> >>disk.
> >
> >*coughcoughasskissercoughcough*
>
>
> wodahS rehtnaP
Shadow Panther et al,
Hey, if you really want to act that juvenile, I can't stop you, but
you do realize that it really detracts from any arguments you might make in
BM's favor? I would expect this kind of nonsense from someone my daughter's
age. I presume you are at least slightly older than eight.
If someone agrees with you, they've seen the light, but if someone
agrees with Neale, they're an asskisser. Interesting. An exactly HOW would
it benefit someone to do that? Eh? Obviously they want to ride on the
coat-tails of his huge popularity, I bet. :)
You want Hasbro execs to come here and listen to what you have to
say? You want to talk to people about your hobbies? Prove to them that
you are at least pseudo mature and a tad less hostile, and maybe they'll
take what you say seriously.
Shayna Davidson
Shayna Davidson
> That still doesn't justify putting
> down all webtv users.....
>
I don't believe he's supporting people who put downpeople as a whole, but
trying to explain what the POV is. BTW, did it occur to you why he might
have put the word "problem" in quotes. Hmm? Think about it.
> > Lastly.. before AOL and WebTV
> was popularized, the average age
> of an
> > internet user was considerably
> older than it is now, consisting
> mostly of
> > college students and staff.
>
> So what your saying is that
> college students and staff rather
> than the average joe like me who
> decided that taking care of my
> daughter was more important than
> of going to college are more
> mature and better than me.
>
> Nah, I don't think so......
Actually, here Neale is both right and wrong. I majority of AOL USERS are
thirty-somethings. Unfortunately, the loud-mouths and jerks who give
everyone a bad rep are the immature users ging out to prove to everyone
they're "kewl". These are the people whoare more active in posting to
newsgroups and other public forums, since most thirty-somethings have the
accounts for business and investing reason or for communicating privatly
with friends and family. (I'll look up the article I read this in, if it's
still online).
And I seriously doubt it was his intention to say it was better back
then, only explaining what the "problem" was - why people would constantly
heckle any AOL or WebTV user. I mean, a great deal of our friends and
family ARE on AOL, and when we had difficulty finding a decent local ISP, we
used it ourselves.
And, BTW, we were married when we attended college, and Neale didn't
finish his degree in order to stay home and take care of OUR daughter so I
could finish mine, so don't hand me anymore of your elitist bull#$@.
Putting words in Neale's mouth and assigning him a role that he doesn't have
so you can feel justified in hating him MORE, is hardly becoming. Try
getting your facts straight sometime before you post.
>
> I'm not saying I'm better than
> them, don't get me wrong, I'm not
> like that.
>
::snort:: Obviously, such tactics would be above you.
Shayna Davidson (uncharactistically pissed off)
Y2K Ravage
>
Oh really, than why are you being such a bias piece o'shit than?
Pyre[Rock]
> > better produced and written story that just
> > happens to touch on some of the same themes
> > that were (almost negligently) brushed by
> > Rebirth, and since it takes place in the same
> > universe by necessity and well-constructed design
> > utilizes some of the same devices.
> > Depends on your POV.
>
> How's this for a POV:
>
> I never saw "Rebirth", and thought the Plasma Engine was a made-up
That's "Plasma Energy Chamber", not Plasma Engine.
> MacGuffin from Skir & Co. until I was told otherwise. And now that
> I've heard otherwise... I don't really know how I feel about it.
> On the one hand, continuity is nice, I guess. But I'm tired of
> Beast Machines saying that *everything* from G1 was a legend--and
> at the same time is so extraordinarily powerful that it can
> uncreate everything, more or less. The Oracle? A legend. Vector
> Sigma? A legend too. Plasma Chamber? Ditto. What'll happen in
> season 2--they'll all be saved by the Tooth Fairy?
The Ark was a legend. Ravage was a rumor. This only goes along with what
we were showed in BW (The Elders paranoid clasification of everything from
the past).
>
> Either way, just looking at the way this episode handled its
> information, I have to say it was sorrowfully rushed. The Plasma
> Engine was, apparently, a rather obscure point in G1 history;
> furthermore, they didn't really go into why it was there
> ("functioned as a remote control for Cybertron..." bwuh?), how it
> was so easy to get to (why did everybody forget about it if it was
> but an elevator ride away?), or how Primal could control it.
Admitedly, it's been a while since I've seen Rebirth so my knowledge of
the Plasme Energy Chamber is sketchy at this point, but I do remember what
it did to the Cybertronians when activated. As to how Primal could
control it, I gathered that he did so through his link to the Matrix.
>
> Problem: Okay, since this show has given us the decidedly flaky
> notion that you can program a liquid, I suppose we can accept the
> notion that the Diagnostic Drone could, by "straining its
> circuits", reprogram something like the Oracle and have it actually
> summon Primal's mind, show him illusions, and convince him of the
> proper path of action. Okey-dokey.
>
> So how did Primal get control of the Plasma Engine? Did the drone
> "pretend" to infuse him with the Oracle's powers as well?
Well, seeing as the Oracle had been corrupted already, I don't think that
would be hard to do. The drone could have possibly shown Primal how to
operate the Chamber through his link to the Matrix.
>
> Which is precisely why I like it.
>
> You see, I think the writers fudged here again, but in this case it
> worked out nicely as a somewhat Strangelovian black-comedy. The
> climax of this episode, a nifty little sequence that I've rewatched
> about ten times, came down to two loonies unleashing their Doomsday
> Devices at each other--it actually sort of resembled a playground
> brawl, or the final confrontation between two especially munchkinny
> RPG characters. Primal goes nuts, Megatron goes nuts by taunting
> him to push the button, Primal goes nuttier by pushing it, and
> Megatron goes really beautifully, gloriously, almost-Beast-Wars
> respectably uber-nuts by deciding that he'd rather end the world in
> an apocalypse of his own design than allow the Maximals to win by
> ending the world on *their* terms.
>
> So he pushes his own Big Red Button, and the world goes "poof!" a
> second time. It was Mutually Assured Destruction at its most
> puerile and absurdly hilarious. Granted, it could just as easily
> have been acted out by stick figures, but either way it was funny.
That's the way Skir planned it, which you can gather by reading his
"FAQ". He states there that he too beleives that Primal is nuts and
pretty much wrong so the events in this episode go along with that.
> > > If anyone is still confused about 'organic vs technology'
> > > after this episode, they need to get to
> > > a shrink, quick. There was no subtlety here.
> >
> > Who could have missed it? Organics versus
> > Technology has been the completely overt conflict since
> > near the start. Just as the Theme they've been
> > building to all along IMO, "the need for Ballence"
> > really starts to come to a head here too.
>
> But if Primal was willing *at the start* to erase all technology
> from the planet, period, then I don't think that's much of a
> balanced view on his part.
>
Of coarse not. Since finding out that the holocaust on Cybertron caused
by Megs was actually HIS fault, he's gone completely bonkers.
> > > At least it's being portrayed
> > > that both sides are
> > > evil...
> >
> > Rather, either side in the extream, to the
> > complete exlusion of the other is evil. In otherwords...
> > Yep, "Ballence" again. ;)
>
> I definitely find Primal somewhat more interesting now that he's a
> psychopath. He isn't weepy or angsty anymore--he's an unstable
> loony-toon. I root for Megatron. Well, if Megatron ever shows up
> in Beast Machines.
Well, at this point, I root for neither as both sides are not something I
want to see. Now if Megatron weren't worse than Hitler in this series I
might side with him. But seeing as that's not so...
>
> Speaking of which--no new body for Megs this season, meaning no
> new-bodied toy until, I'd wager, mid-summer. Hurrah.
It's TM2 Megs all over again.
>
> I loved the conclusion here, again because it was so bitter and
> petty and mad. "You're going to kill us all? Well, let me tell
> you something, brother--I'M going to kill us all TOO! You kill me,
> I kill you right back! Bwa!" Maybe I'm a spiteful person, or
> maybe I appreciate irony--likely both--but either way I was
> giggling all the way through.
Heh. I thouroughly enjoyed the episode but I'm left worried about what
could possibly happen at this point. I just hope they handle this
cliffhanger better than Bob and Larry did with Agenda.
--
Pyre[Rock] - the...@rica.net
http://home.rica.net/dcarson/therock/
"Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
is just a freight train comming your way." - Metallica "No Leaf Clover"
Anthony Oster
>
> Makes you wonder what the US Dep't of Defense scientists in
> 1969 using APRANET would've thought at seeing the "grandbaby" of their
> little network, doesn't it? Of course, the first thing they may have
> thought would be "wow...look at all the porn!!!" :)
What're you talking about, Apranet was nothing but a way to transmit
porn to military bases in the event of a nuclear war =^)
Anthony
superspy
>Neal Davidson Wrote:
>
>> The 'problem' with Web TV , like
>AOL, is that it allows a wide-band
>of
>> people to
>> get on the net and voice their
>opinions. While this doesn't sound
>bad,
>
>It Isn't.....
>
>> here's
>> the problem.
>>
>> Too few of the 'newbies' brought
>on by WebTV and AOL know
>nettiquite, and
>> many often feel entitled to act
>certain ways because of how they
>pay for the
>> service, coming from a lack of
>understanding on how the internet
>really
>> works.
>
>That still doesn't justify putting
>down all webtv users.....
>
>> Lastly.. before AOL and WebTV
>was popularized, the average age
>of an
>> internet user was considerably
>older than it is now, consisting
>mostly of
>> college students and staff.
>
OK, this post marks two "firsts" for me. 1: I'm posting to a 3-day
old thread, something I usually avoid unless I *really* feel the need
to voice something; and 2: I agree with Neale for the first time.
Ever. :-P
And now, let me continue my train o' thought.
Several people have missed the point of Neale's post, despite how it
reads, he's not being elitist. If anything, it's a sad, sad
commentary on several AOLers and WebTVers who have........"graced" us
with their presence in the past few months. That's not to say that
ALL members of AOL and WebTV are like that, I know several people on
both services that understand netiquette quite well.
The problem here, unfortunately, is people taking his remarks too
personally; quite honestly there's nothing I, or anyone else can do to
stop you from doing that. However, member of AOL or WebTV aside, it
should be plainly obvious to you that the service you're on isn't made
for the most technically literate audience. Heck, if I may quote the
WebTV infomercial (which I'll admit that I watch just because I MiST
it): "you don't need to be computer literate to use the internet."
That statement is a half-truth. To use the internet via WebTV and
AOL, you *don't* need to be computer literate. The GUI systems the
two provide pretty much automate everything. I think we can all agree
that AOL is perhaps the best example of this because, well, they were
the first online service to pull it off successfully (?).
The *problem* with such a tight integration into the service a la AOL
is that many people come to believe that the internet follows the same
rules and regulations as AOL. People come into IRC and complain about
the language, people post to newsgroups like it's an AOL forum, and,
in perhaps the best case of "IRC induced injury" (from laughing too
hard), I've been threatened with being reported to TOS while I was in
IRC. And to anyone on AOL who may be wondering where Neale (and
others on the 'net) get such "elitist" attitudes towards your service,
I believe I just gave you the answer. Do I even *need* to point out
what happened on Dal.net?
But let's not exclude WebTV, because we've had our fair share of
visitors from there as well. Now, the people from that service have
more of a -- dare I say it -- an excuse than AOLers. Reports from
various people seem to indicate that *no* documentation on netiquette
is provided with the box at all. That's something that WebTV is going
to have to deal with internally. In the interim, however, the users
from that service have a sort of responsibility to do what they need
to do in order to find an indication of what's acceptable behavior on
the internet. There are many, many online netiquette guides. I'm not
afraid to admit that I even gave them a good once-over once I moved
from Prodigy to the raw internet back in late '93, early '94 or so.
It was obvious to me that the same laws just didn't apply.
This post isn't meant to be taken personally, people. I just can't
stand the fact at how everytime someone points out that *most* AOL and
WebTVers have a lot to learn the entire community of users on said
service take it as an insult. The sad truth is that 90% of the trolls
I *have* encountered in the past 5 years have been from AOL and, more
recently WebTV. Both services have more than responsible users;
people who don't post stuff like "0ZzY R|_|L35!!!" (thanks, Brunching
Shuttlecocks) continuously. I'm pleased to say that the majority of
the people I've met who *know* netiquette and are on these two
services I've met via ATT. So, I plead with those people: when
comments are made about your service in general, the statements have
very, very deep roots in past 'net experiences. They don't include
you in any way, shape or form. In the end, it shouldn't matter what
service you use, but your general regard for the rules of the internet
will ultimately be the deciding factor in whether you're killfiled or
not. It's just that currently, many of the users who couldn't care
less about these rules happen to use the same service as you.
superspy.
superspy
(superspy) wrote:
*ahem*
and from the "ironic as hell" department, I forgot to dump the first
"Re:" from the subject header.
my bad, sorry.
superspy.
AlexJ33106
>>to
>>disk.
>*coughcoughasskissercoughcough*
>Sorry...couldn't resist.
Yep, it's official: Compliments are now considered forms of ass-kissing. Geez,
this newsgroup sometimes....Good-day.
-Alex(The #2 Simpsons/Transformers Fan)
Goldimus Prime and the StarJets
djet...@aol.com (Y2K Ravage) wrote:
> >You know, I'm sick of this crap.
> >
> Oh really, than why are you being such a bias piece o'shit than?
Y'know, I have Webtv _and_ AOL, but you don't see me taking offense to
Neale's post.
In fact, I argee with what he said. The percentage of trolls on this,
and many other NG's a visit, are from AOL and Webtv.
I'm not saying all trolls are from these ISP's, and I'm not saying
everyone on these services are trolls, but the fact remains, Neale is
right in what he said. And if you take offense to that, it isn't his
fault.
MicroZone
BC........... just BC
quoted here as well). Both Neale and Superspy are correct. I normally
jump all over anyone who starts insulting WebTV as a whole, but I find
myself siding with them here. WebTV does *not* openly try to instruct
its users on netiquette. They release a stupid news letter and hope that
people use it. They also don't enforce the TOS they make every user
agree to when they sign up. If I had the money to get a computer, I'd
leave this damn service and sign onto a real ISP.
~BC
Anthony Wilmoth
about a transformer toy they like?? Does it really matter if they have a
computer or not? I mean if neale doesn't like it or you yourself, read
it and take it with a grain of salt. People post here to see how other
transformer fans think about something. If certain people here are tired
of getting the once and awhile troll-post and can't stand it, there are
always other means of communicating on the net like email. I mean, i
read posts here everyday now and cannot remember how many useless posts
i have seen in the past year. I really am not trying to offend anyone
with this but it really gripes me to no end to see some one say that
someone with a webtv isnt capable of carrying on a conversation about a
toy line they like.
Túrin
>
<snippity>
What it basically comes down to is this:
People are stupid. Human beings have the capability to be rational, but
for one reason or another, a whole lot of us aren't. We're all stupid
in *some* way or another, and many people in more than one area.
When being on the internet required a costly computer, and some
technical know-how to set it up and operate it, the people on the
internet were generally those with at least some money and education.
Of course there was still a percentage of stupid people. Because even
the "elite" of humanity isn't all *that* elite.
AOL and Webtv allow any old person to get on the internet.
And as we said, a lot of people are stupid.
So it isn't surprising to see a lot of stupid posts have AOL or Webtv
addresses. These services increased the percentage of stupidity some.
But.
But.
But... the reasoning DOESN'T work in the other way. Just because
someone *has* an AOL or Webtv address says NOTHING about whether they
are stupid or not. They might be. They might not be. Just like EVERY
other ISP. AOL or Webtv may have a higher percentage of stupid users,
but only because HUMAN BEINGS in GENERAL have a high percentage of
stupid people. And ALL ISPs have their share.
Judging anyone on their ISP rather than the content of their posts is
prejudice. By the very definition of the word.
Túrin
The (Unofficial) Official Beast Wars Non-Show Character Site
http://knoledge.org/NSCS/
Radio Free Cybertron
http://rfcybertron.cjb.net/
Transformers Fanfic and Related Junk
http://knoledge.org/mormegil/
Recharge
computer beyond basic pointing and clicking. I think saying having a
non AOL or WebTV account makes you a more knowledgable netter is
retarded. Its just as easy to operate any ISP as it is AOL. So I
think the argument that AOLers and WebTVers are dumb cause they can't
work the net, neither can a lot of people on other ISPs. It just
remains a mystery. It is, however a form of elitism a lot of netters
get, especially those that have been around a long time. Of course,
they don't think this and have a hundred other people to back their
claims up.
No offense to anybody in particular, just some random generalizations...
Recharge
zal...@my-deja.com
<rW774.14233$4r6.1...@news.rdc1.il.home.com>,
"Shayna Davidson" <ldys...@NOSPAM.home.net>
wrote:
>
> And, BTW, we were married when we attended
college, and Neale didn't
> finish his degree in order to stay home and take
care of OUR daughter so I
> could finish mine, so don't hand me anymore of your
elitist bull#$@.
> Putting words in Neale's mouth and assigning him a
role that he doesn't have
> so you can feel justified in hating him MORE, is
hardly becoming. Try
> getting your facts straight sometime before you
post.
>
> >
> > I'm not saying I'm better than
> > them, don't get me wrong, I'm not
> > like that.
> >
>
> ::snort:: Obviously, such tactics would be above
you.
>
> Shayna Davidson (uncharactistically pissed off)
>
Actually, I was interpreting his statements, not
putting words into Neals mouth. Seeing's how I rarely
post at all (I read vast amounts more when I have the
time) I never use tactics, never insult or
call/generalize other posters names.
It is unfortunate that you are (uncharactistically
p.od, your own words not mine) as my post was not
intended to p.o anyone but to show my dismay on a
post I had read, and write what I had on my mind at
the moment..
I hope you have a wonderful holiday.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
White Cat
alexj...@aol.com (AlexJ33106) wrote:
>
> >*coughcoughasskissercoughcough*
>
> >Sorry...couldn't resist.
>
> Yep, it's official: Compliments are now considered forms of
> ass-kissing. Geez, this newsgroup sometimes....Good-day.
Uh, I thought it was rather obvious that this was a joke. C'mon, Neale
recognized it, how come almost no one else could?
--
( My real e-mail address is white_cat @ white-cat.net )
Slvrmist10
>>>to
>>>disk.
>
>
>>Sorry...couldn't resist.
>
>Yep, it's official: Compliments are now considered forms of ass-kissing.
>Geez,
>this newsgroup sometimes....Good-day.
Yup. I noticed that one a while back. Why do ya think most of my posts tend to
be a bit rude?
It's not that I don't know proper behavior (altho I do have a short temper and
that gets in the way). It's that if I'm polite online I'd get considered a
suck-up, and if I'm rude I get considered a troll. Taking my personal
background into account I'd rather be pegged as a flamer than an ass-kisser
anyday... and with my temper squeezing an insult or two into each post isn't
that hard.
White Dove
(Plus I'm from WV, and a part way out in the sticks. Out here
insults and cusswords are just part of normal conversation...)
Deatha...@webtv.net
is not like transformers & has no TF history references .
BUT NOW --> that beastmachines has put transformer & beastwars
references in it stories
NEALE DAVIDSON --> complains there's to much reference to TF history .
WHAT -> does it take to please this NEALE anyway .
MAYBE -->
HASBRO : " Hey neale this is hasbro & mainframe ".
NEALE : " Yes what do you want"
Mainframe : " we fired bob skir because he was a bumb & couldnt write ,
can you neale write the beastmachine stories in his place "
NEALE : " I will write the stories of beastmachines ".
GEEZ , here I thought the bashing & fueds of bob skir finally ended
weeks ago.
apparently some wont just let it go .
Túrin
>
> Huh. I have a local ISP and I have no fricking clue how to work my
> computer beyond basic pointing and clicking. I think saying having a
> non AOL or WebTV account makes you a more knowledgable netter is
> retarded. Its just as easy to operate any ISP as it is AOL. So I
> think the argument that AOLers and WebTVers are dumb cause they can't
My point exactly. It's all generalisations. Why single out AOL or
Webtv when the problem with human beings in general? Besides, computer
literacy does NOT mean a person is rational or courteous.
I'd like drivers on the freeway to be courteous. Not going to get it.
How? By closing high-traffic on-ramps, so fewer cars on road? That's
selfish and unfair.
*I* think everyone is still peeved about all the disks they got sent in
the mail and this is their way of letting off steam.
Deatha...@webtv.net
So far I have counted 11.
wonder how many more times he will respond.
ALSO I wonder how many screen names this guy neale has ,alot of the
positive post's to his letter is highly unlikely .
I am guessing neale davidson has about 10 different screen names & he
agrees with himself after his post are written.
Neale Davidson
This email has been forwarded to your ISP for violation of its terms of
service.
The recipient does not wish to recieve messages from you.
HooksX
<Deatha...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16756-38...@storefull-287.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Yeah, you're right. Anyone who dislikes Beast Machines or any aspect of it
is Neale Davidson. There is no way to have our own opinion. We are simply
the cloned entities of Neale Davidson. He is the Alpha and Omega of "Beast
Machines haters." We are nobody. Beast Machines is the bible, and Bob Skir
is God.
....oh, fuck off already.
(X)
The Frozen Food Guy
I have every right to say that, whether ANY of you like it or not.
superspy
<morm...@SPAMBLOCKknoledge.org> wrote:
<snipperoo>
>
>*I* think everyone is still peeved about all the disks they got sent in
>the mail and this is their way of letting off steam.
Actually, the disks/cds were only a minor annoyance, they just got
trashed with the rest of the junk mail. What I think drives a lot of
anti-AOL feelings on the internet (as well as the sort-of bubbling
anti-WebTV movement) is the simple marketing strategies these two
companies both try to get away with.
AOL and WebTV are both pretty deceptive in their advertising. AOL all
but claims to be the internet in some of their ads, and WebTV claims
that the internet is a shiny-happy-wonderful-place where all of the
information you can ever want is available at your fingertips. The
utter disgust that these two claims generate inside of some people
sometimes, albeit inadvertently, build up into a general
hatred/mocking of the user base. Why? Well, call it "laughing at the
suckers" or anything else you think is appropriate. It's a shame that
there are people out there who do it, though.
Admittedly though, AOL does have its proprietary content going for it.
Although it's of no personal use to me, I guess some people do
appreciate it for one reason or another.
superspy, who's glad that AOL's chat rooms haven't even begun to play
into this as they are SO another issue.
Recharge
AOLers think EVERYBODY is on AOL. I've been asked how I got my email
address to not have the aol.com in it : ). But its still unfair to be
a net Dilbertesque snob and call them all newbies or ignoramuses.
There is just as many on EVERY ISP. But for some mysterious reason,
most of the retards we see are on these two well known ISPs.
Recharge, who couldn't be on AOL anyway, its closest server is long
distance (I ain't payin' long distance charges for the "convienence" of
AOL when a local server suits my needs just fine : )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Be dangerous... and unpredictable. And make a lot of noise!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vice Grip and Bladeless
>GEEZ how many times does NEALE DAVIDSON respond to his original post,
>So far I have counted 11.
>wonder how many more times he will respond.
Why do you care?
>ALSO I wonder how many screen names this guy neale has ,alot of the
>positive post's to his letter is highly unlikely .
>I am guessing neale davidson has about 10 different screen names & he
>agrees with himself after his post are written.
Sounds like something you'd do, yes?
--
Yes, you have the right to your opinion, but you are 100% wrong.
There are always naysayers that will say nay.
I'm happier than a Terrorcon with two connector pegs!!
Wear a Stampy around your neck, you'll get chicks!
You can't surrender if you're always running away...
+ /| (http://www.wildrun.com/ ) |\ Help! My .sig
+ p / |(email: orio...@sprynet.com)| \ was stuck in a
+NNON| |NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN| |NN vise by
+ b \_|==============================|_/=O Dave Van Domelen!
TF Fancode: G+++ G1- G2+++ BW+++ MW+++ BM+ FR FW+ M++ #477 D+ AA+ N+++ W++
OP+ MUSH-- BC++ CN+ OM+ P357
Pyre[Rock]
>
> I am guessing neale davidson has about 10 different screen names & he
> agrees with himself after his post are written.
You mean, just like you Mr. VictoryDeathaGigaWhatsis?
Zero minus 6
Neale Davidson <tfn...@home.com> wrote in message
news:WYq74.15779$4r6.1...@news.rdc1.il.home.com...
> > Oh really, than why are you being such a bias piece o'shit than?
>
> This email has been forwarded to your ISP for violation of its terms of
> service.
> The recipient does not wish to recieve messages from you.
I thought you left?
Terebi no Gureji
>ALL members of AOL and WebTV are like that, I know several people on
>both services that understand netiquette quite well.
<major snippage>
OK, I have a _major_ problem with the fact that Neale, Knight-Heart and
possibly other s are dragging the "ALL U AOLERZ SUX!!!!!1111" mentality onto
ATT. When people denounced ATT as a "dead newsgroup" due to all the flaming and
whatnot, I used to defend with the fact that at least here you didn't get
people flaming each because of their choice of ISPs/online services. I frequent
some other newsgroups where "AOLers" are routinely flamed whether they deserved
or not. (For instance, I remember all too vividly an incident on
alt.fan.sailor-moon where a clueless poster from and _entirely different
domain_ was mindlessly referred to as an "AOLer".) Now, apparently even ATT
isn't safe from that sort of thing.
...Then again, I'm just an AOLer, so my opinions are automatically invalid.
TV's Grady: The Moonlight Jedi Knight Who Says Ni
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around every once in a
while, you might miss it."-Ferris Bueller
http://www.geocities.com/tvsgrady_99/
superspy
<clutchnugg...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>He does have a point. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, many
>AOLers think EVERYBODY is on AOL. I've been asked how I got my email
>address to not have the aol.com in it : ).
that last part? Ditto :)
>But its still unfair to be
>a net Dilbertesque snob and call them all newbies or ignoramuses.
>There is just as many on EVERY ISP. But for some mysterious reason,
>most of the retards we see are on these two well known ISPs.
That is, after all, my point. I never claimed to call *all* AOL/WebTV
members newbies/idiots at any point. I know my share of very
intelligent people from both services. However, thanks to AOL/WebTV's
advertising, *everyone* shows up at their door, including those who
should by all rights surrender their computer (or wireless keyboard)
to the Lamer Police.
>
>Recharge, who couldn't be on AOL anyway, its closest server is long
>distance (I ain't payin' long distance charges for the "convienence" of
>AOL when a local server suits my needs just fine : )
>
superspy.
DarkPhoenix
>So far I have counted 11.
>wonder how many more times he will respond.
>
>positive post's to his letter is highly unlikely .
>agrees with himself after his post are written.
>
VicLeo . . . as Hooks said, fuck off. I like Beast Machines but I sure as hell
know Neale doesn't go around with fake alias's congradulating himself. THAT
tactic is saved for you, after all . . .
DarkPhoenix
"Talk to me about Tankorr."
"Nice guy, little dim."
"Your GLORIOUS Army will shine less brightly with out his guiding . . .
Can I have his tank drones?!"
-Megatron,
Thrust,
and Jetstorm.
Survivor of a.t.t "Hell-Flame Wars" '98
superspy
wrote:
>>That's not to say that
>>ALL members of AOL and WebTV are like that, I know several people on
>>both services that understand netiquette quite well.
>
><major snippage>
>
>OK, I have a _major_ problem with the fact that Neale, Knight-Heart and
>possibly other s are dragging the "ALL U AOLERZ SUX!!!!!1111" mentality onto
>ATT. When people denounced ATT as a "dead newsgroup" due to all the flaming and
>whatnot, I used to defend with the fact that at least here you didn't get
>people flaming each because of their choice of ISPs/online services. I frequent
>some other newsgroups where "AOLers" are routinely flamed whether they deserved
>or not. (For instance, I remember all too vividly an incident on
>alt.fan.sailor-moon where a clueless poster from and _entirely different
>domain_ was mindlessly referred to as an "AOLer".) Now, apparently even ATT
>isn't safe from that sort of thing.
>
>...Then again, I'm just an AOLer, so my opinions are automatically invalid.
>
wow, miss my point? :-/
the entire gist of my letter was to point out the unfortunate stigma
AOL has gained for itself over the years. I have no beef with
AOL/WebTVers. My problems lie in anyone who feels the need to
completely ignore netiquette, whether they're signing on via
Earthlink, Mindspring, Concentric, or any other ISP. What's an
undeniable truth, however, is that a disproportionate amount of these
people do have aol.com or webtv.com addresses.
To that, I must repeat that I don't judge people based on their email
address. I judge people on what they have to say and how they go
about saying it.
superspy.
David Cousens
Túrin wrote
>What it basically comes down to is this:
>
>People are stupid
Túrin! You've almost stolen my favourite theory!
"People are idiots." :)
Dave
(The Original) great minds etc etc
David Cousens
DarkPhoenix
>VicLeo . . . as Hooks said, fuck off. I like Beast Machines but I sure as
hell
>know Neale doesn't go around with fake alias's congradulating himself. THAT
>tactic is saved for you, after all . . .
Looks like I was way off when I thought VicLeo/Deathy/whatever had redeemed
himself with his ATTRPG!
All he's done in the past couple of days is attack people!
Damn. And I thought that you could redeem trolls.
Dave
(The Original) who doesn't want to admit that some people AREN'T
redeemable... :(
Túrin
>
> Túrin wrote
> >What it basically comes down to is this:
> >
> >People are stupid
>
> Túrin! You've almost stolen my favourite theory!
> "People are idiots." :)
I think mine is pithier.
Túrin...
David Cousens
Túrin wrote >> >What it basically comes down to is this:
>> >
>> >People are stupid
>>
>> Túrin! You've almost stolen my favourite theory!
>> "People are idiots." :)
>
>I think mine is pithier.
Well sure, but mine really defines the issue...
Dave
(The Original) wondering how he may actually be qualifying for an example of
this statement all of a sudden...