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Plastic Decay: Does Hasbro Just Have No Idea?
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Zobovor
Jul 12, 2015, 12:28:25 AM7/12/15
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Today my seven-year-old son and I were talking about toys he wished they would make, and he said he thought it would be cool if they made a Transformer that could turn into the Millennium Falcon. I told him that they had actually done Star Wars Transformers already, and he literally did not believe me. So, I had to bust open the box of expanded universe toys (basically my term for all the silly Star Wars toys I own based on characters who don't appear in any of the movies).
Two things happened. One, Chewbacca's robotic arm broke off. Apparently, gold plastic syndrome also applies to brown sparkly plastic as well. I should say that the Millennium Falcon toy has not seen a substantial amount of play. Indeed, it hasn't seen any play at all. I've probably transformed it three or four times, and that's about all the action it's seen since 2007. It's been sitting in a box for the vast majority of its life, so it's not like it's been exposed to direct sunlight or anything. The good news is that it was a clean break, so I was able to glue the broken piece back on. I'm not super upset about the toy breaking (I bought it on a whim on Black Friday for like ten bucks) but I'm upset that it was kept in conditions that should have not caused it to break. However, it's possible I twisted something wrong. I really had completely forgotten how the thing was supposed to transform, so I'll accept fault for this.
So then I dug through the box and got some other toys out. I don't have anything approaching a complete collection of Star Wars Transformers... I just bought a few that I liked, and thought translated well to the robotic styling. Boba Fett/Slave I, Darth Vader/TIE Interceptor, Luke Skywalker/X-Wing Fighter, AT-AT Driver/AT-AT, and I think that's about it. I thought I'd gotten the Snowspeeder as well, but maybe not. These things were fifteen bucks back when Deluxe Transformers were still $10, so it was a big chunk of change to drop on a silly novelty toy. Anyway, I picked up the X-Wing Fighter, and I wasn't about to try and figure out how to transform it (I'd had enough trouble with Chewbacca), and one of the legs came off in my hand. This really surprised me. Again, this was a toy that I may have transformed two or three times. Upon examination, the ball joint to which the leg was attached had an incredibly skinny stem. Not much plastic holding it on to begin with. When I wiggled the other leg to see just what kind of a joint we were talking about, it instantly snapped off, too.
Something else about the X-Wing Fighter that struck me is that it looked like a really old toy. A lot of the toy's plastic was visibly yellowing. Now, I know this can happen over time to prolonged sunlight exposure. It's not like I keep my toys on the windowsill all day long, though. This toy's been in a box for years and years. I did break these toys out for my big photodocumenting project back in 2008, and I checked my pictures to see if the yellowing was in evidence, but the results were inconclusive. You'd think I would have noticed back then, though, and remembered noticing.
It actually reminds me of what happened to a Star Wars: Episode I action figure of R2-D2. I needed one for a project a few years ago and I remembered that I still had one in the packaging. I'd been holding onto it since 1999, when it first came out. When I retrieved him, though, his body had changed color to this sickly yellow, particularly around the sides of the body where they'd used glue to hold parts together. It wasn't a tragedy, since I opened it up and painted it, but it could have been upsetting if I'd planned to keep it in the package and resell it.
Seriously, what is going on here? I could totally accept if this were happening to my G1 toys, which were made from brittle plastic to begin with, and which actually got played with over the years. These are modern-era toys that have been handled gently by an adult collector, though. This shouldn't be happening. Or, am I expecting too much? I mean, I imagine Hasbro makes these things with the expectation that kids will play with them for a year or two and then move on to other things. They acknowledge that there are collectors who keep these things forever, but I don't think they really plan for that.
Also, it seems like we've complained to Hasbro about the whole gold plastic syndrome thing. Repeatedly. They keep blaming poorly-mixed metallic flakes in the batch of plastic, or whatever. In the meantime, every single Transformers toy made of swirly glittery plastic eventually crumbles into garbage. G2 Slingshot and Transmetal Megatron are two more examples of toys I've taken really good care of... and yet.
Are all my toys destined to just deteriorate? I mean, sure, on a long enough timeline, everything turns to dust. Plastic is such a relatively new commodity that we don't have any examples that are hundreds or thousands of years old. Really, though, is it so unrealistic to expect toys that I bought less than a decade ago, and have basically never touched, to not already be falling apart?
It's almost like there are no benefits to taking care of my toys. Maybe I should just dump them all on the front lawn and watch them decompose like an Inhumanoid.
Zob (just kidding; I live in a condo... we don't have a front lawn)
Two things happened. One, Chewbacca's robotic arm broke off. Apparently, gold plastic syndrome also applies to brown sparkly plastic as well. I should say that the Millennium Falcon toy has not seen a substantial amount of play. Indeed, it hasn't seen any play at all. I've probably transformed it three or four times, and that's about all the action it's seen since 2007. It's been sitting in a box for the vast majority of its life, so it's not like it's been exposed to direct sunlight or anything. The good news is that it was a clean break, so I was able to glue the broken piece back on. I'm not super upset about the toy breaking (I bought it on a whim on Black Friday for like ten bucks) but I'm upset that it was kept in conditions that should have not caused it to break. However, it's possible I twisted something wrong. I really had completely forgotten how the thing was supposed to transform, so I'll accept fault for this.
So then I dug through the box and got some other toys out. I don't have anything approaching a complete collection of Star Wars Transformers... I just bought a few that I liked, and thought translated well to the robotic styling. Boba Fett/Slave I, Darth Vader/TIE Interceptor, Luke Skywalker/X-Wing Fighter, AT-AT Driver/AT-AT, and I think that's about it. I thought I'd gotten the Snowspeeder as well, but maybe not. These things were fifteen bucks back when Deluxe Transformers were still $10, so it was a big chunk of change to drop on a silly novelty toy. Anyway, I picked up the X-Wing Fighter, and I wasn't about to try and figure out how to transform it (I'd had enough trouble with Chewbacca), and one of the legs came off in my hand. This really surprised me. Again, this was a toy that I may have transformed two or three times. Upon examination, the ball joint to which the leg was attached had an incredibly skinny stem. Not much plastic holding it on to begin with. When I wiggled the other leg to see just what kind of a joint we were talking about, it instantly snapped off, too.
Something else about the X-Wing Fighter that struck me is that it looked like a really old toy. A lot of the toy's plastic was visibly yellowing. Now, I know this can happen over time to prolonged sunlight exposure. It's not like I keep my toys on the windowsill all day long, though. This toy's been in a box for years and years. I did break these toys out for my big photodocumenting project back in 2008, and I checked my pictures to see if the yellowing was in evidence, but the results were inconclusive. You'd think I would have noticed back then, though, and remembered noticing.
It actually reminds me of what happened to a Star Wars: Episode I action figure of R2-D2. I needed one for a project a few years ago and I remembered that I still had one in the packaging. I'd been holding onto it since 1999, when it first came out. When I retrieved him, though, his body had changed color to this sickly yellow, particularly around the sides of the body where they'd used glue to hold parts together. It wasn't a tragedy, since I opened it up and painted it, but it could have been upsetting if I'd planned to keep it in the package and resell it.
Seriously, what is going on here? I could totally accept if this were happening to my G1 toys, which were made from brittle plastic to begin with, and which actually got played with over the years. These are modern-era toys that have been handled gently by an adult collector, though. This shouldn't be happening. Or, am I expecting too much? I mean, I imagine Hasbro makes these things with the expectation that kids will play with them for a year or two and then move on to other things. They acknowledge that there are collectors who keep these things forever, but I don't think they really plan for that.
Also, it seems like we've complained to Hasbro about the whole gold plastic syndrome thing. Repeatedly. They keep blaming poorly-mixed metallic flakes in the batch of plastic, or whatever. In the meantime, every single Transformers toy made of swirly glittery plastic eventually crumbles into garbage. G2 Slingshot and Transmetal Megatron are two more examples of toys I've taken really good care of... and yet.
Are all my toys destined to just deteriorate? I mean, sure, on a long enough timeline, everything turns to dust. Plastic is such a relatively new commodity that we don't have any examples that are hundreds or thousands of years old. Really, though, is it so unrealistic to expect toys that I bought less than a decade ago, and have basically never touched, to not already be falling apart?
It's almost like there are no benefits to taking care of my toys. Maybe I should just dump them all on the front lawn and watch them decompose like an Inhumanoid.
Zob (just kidding; I live in a condo... we don't have a front lawn)
Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
Jul 12, 2015, 1:14:49 AM7/12/15
to
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 9:28:25 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
>
> My toys are dying! Even the Star Wars Transformers! And Episode 1 R2-D2! And...
>
The Star Wars Transformers were allegedly designed by Hasbro without any help from Takara, so things like too-thin joints might come from that. Takara has a lot more experience with Transformers, and their fans are older and have more of a collector mentality.
So, there is that.
But, that doesn't explain the continuing adventures in metal-flake plastic that we see in toys like TM Megatron and Torca where the Takara version doesn't use the affected plastics suggests that perhaps Hasbro just doesn't care.
That said, we have Randy the GPS Warthog, so perhaps Takara doesn't care either.
If you are feeling less cynical, perhaps Hasbro was just optimistic that they had solved the problem. Really, really optimistic in the case of BW10th Dinobot, apparently.
I have no explanation for R2-D2 turning yellow, except that he's probably now a different character. Also, Hasbro doesn't care. Or they are continually trying new things and not discovering that they are mistakes for a decade.
>
> My toys are dying! Even the Star Wars Transformers! And Episode 1 R2-D2! And...
>
The Star Wars Transformers were allegedly designed by Hasbro without any help from Takara, so things like too-thin joints might come from that. Takara has a lot more experience with Transformers, and their fans are older and have more of a collector mentality.
So, there is that.
But, that doesn't explain the continuing adventures in metal-flake plastic that we see in toys like TM Megatron and Torca where the Takara version doesn't use the affected plastics suggests that perhaps Hasbro just doesn't care.
That said, we have Randy the GPS Warthog, so perhaps Takara doesn't care either.
If you are feeling less cynical, perhaps Hasbro was just optimistic that they had solved the problem. Really, really optimistic in the case of BW10th Dinobot, apparently.
I have no explanation for R2-D2 turning yellow, except that he's probably now a different character. Also, Hasbro doesn't care. Or they are continually trying new things and not discovering that they are mistakes for a decade.
Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.
Jul 12, 2015, 11:12:19 AM7/12/15
to
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 11:28:25 PM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
> Today my seven-year-old son and I were talking about toys he wished they would make, and he said he thought it would be cool if they made a Transformer that could turn into the Millennium Falcon. I told him that they had actually done Star Wars Transformers already, and he literally did not believe me. So, I had to bust open the box of expanded universe toys (basically my term for all the silly Star Wars toys I own based on characters who don't appear in any of the movies).
>
> Two things happened. One, Chewbacca's robotic arm broke off. Apparently, gold plastic syndrome also applies to brown sparkly plastic as well. I should say that the Millennium Falcon toy has not seen a substantial amount of play. Indeed, it hasn't seen any play at all. I've probably transformed it three or four times, and that's about all the action it's seen since 2007. It's been sitting in a box for the vast majority of its life, so it's not like it's been exposed to direct sunlight or anything. The good news is that it was a clean break, so I was able to glue the broken piece back on. I'm not super upset about the toy breaking (I bought it on a whim on Black Friday for like ten bucks) but I'm upset that it was kept in conditions that should have not caused it to break. However, it's possible I twisted something wrong. I really had completely forgotten how the thing was supposed to transform, so I'll accept fault for this.
>
Every SW millennium falcon has the same problem Chewie's arms and legs break so easily. I go to a monthly toy-convention here full of tons of Star Wars, Hot wheels, Transformers, MLP, etc etc etc. Every single show there are at least 2 Millennium Falcon Transformers. Mine broke when I was re-boxing it up to sell as one of the few then unbroken ones. Many of the breaks are not clean, and shatter into tiny shards.
> Today my seven-year-old son and I were talking about toys he wished they would make, and he said he thought it would be cool if they made a Transformer that could turn into the Millennium Falcon. I told him that they had actually done Star Wars Transformers already, and he literally did not believe me. So, I had to bust open the box of expanded universe toys (basically my term for all the silly Star Wars toys I own based on characters who don't appear in any of the movies).
>
> Two things happened. One, Chewbacca's robotic arm broke off. Apparently, gold plastic syndrome also applies to brown sparkly plastic as well. I should say that the Millennium Falcon toy has not seen a substantial amount of play. Indeed, it hasn't seen any play at all. I've probably transformed it three or four times, and that's about all the action it's seen since 2007. It's been sitting in a box for the vast majority of its life, so it's not like it's been exposed to direct sunlight or anything. The good news is that it was a clean break, so I was able to glue the broken piece back on. I'm not super upset about the toy breaking (I bought it on a whim on Black Friday for like ten bucks) but I'm upset that it was kept in conditions that should have not caused it to break. However, it's possible I twisted something wrong. I really had completely forgotten how the thing was supposed to transform, so I'll accept fault for this.
>
Zobovor
Jul 12, 2015, 6:56:53 PM7/12/15
to
On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 9:12:19 AM UTC-6, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> Every SW millennium falcon has the same problem Chewie's arms and legs break
> so easily.
I do find that strangely reassuring.
> Every SW millennium falcon has the same problem Chewie's arms and legs break
> so easily.
I'm gonna say this again: Hasbro has been making toys for 70 years! That's a long time to figure out what works and what doesn't. They know not to use lead-based paint and they know that some plastics are "unpaintable." They know that hard, brittle toys will shatter during drop testing and they know to make pokey-out-parts out of rubbery PVC. It doesn't merely behoove them to have learned this; it is literally THEIR BUSINESS TO KNOW THIS STUFF.
God, I sound like Kittie Rose. Is my fury maybe a little justified here? Or am I being totally outrageous and I just can't see it?
Seriously, though, how can they not have looked at the huge history of golden crumbly toys spanning the last quarter-century (Black Zarak, Pretender Bristleback, Pretender Roadblock, G2 Electro, G2 Slingshot, Armada-era Dinobot Striker, Transmetal Megatron, add Chewbacca to the list, etc. etc. etc.) and not have finally gone, "Oh, gee, maybe we'd better not make toys out of this stuff any more"?
Zob (they might as well just make Transformers out of Play-Doh!)
Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
Jul 15, 2015, 2:16:43 AM7/15/15
to
On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 3:56:53 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 9:12:19 AM UTC-6, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
>
> > Every SW millennium falcon has the same problem Chewie's arms and legs break
> > so easily.
>
> I do find that strangely reassuring.
>
> I'm gonna say this again: Hasbro has been making toys for 70 years! That's a long time to figure out what works and what doesn't. They know not to use lead-based paint and they know that some plastics are "unpaintable." They know that hard, brittle toys will shatter during drop testing and they know to make pokey-out-parts out of rubbery PVC. It doesn't merely behoove them to have learned this; it is literally THEIR BUSINESS TO KNOW THIS STUFF.
>
> God, I sound like Kittie Rose. Is my fury maybe a little justified here? Or am I being totally outrageous and I just can't see it?
I think that either they are changing the formula for the gold plastic every few years, and believe they have it fixed, or they have weighed the value of gold plastic in terms of sales vs. stability and have decided it is worth it.
> On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 9:12:19 AM UTC-6, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
>
> > Every SW millennium falcon has the same problem Chewie's arms and legs break
> > so easily.
>
> I do find that strangely reassuring.
>
> I'm gonna say this again: Hasbro has been making toys for 70 years! That's a long time to figure out what works and what doesn't. They know not to use lead-based paint and they know that some plastics are "unpaintable." They know that hard, brittle toys will shatter during drop testing and they know to make pokey-out-parts out of rubbery PVC. It doesn't merely behoove them to have learned this; it is literally THEIR BUSINESS TO KNOW THIS STUFF.
>
> God, I sound like Kittie Rose. Is my fury maybe a little justified here? Or am I being totally outrageous and I just can't see it?
I honestly lean towards the former, since it takes a few years for GPS to show up, so they don't know it isn't fixed.
> Seriously, though, how can they not have looked at the huge history of golden crumbly toys spanning the last quarter-century (Black Zarak, Pretender Bristleback, Pretender Roadblock, G2 Electro, G2 Slingshot, Armada-era Dinobot Striker, Transmetal Megatron, add Chewbacca to the list, etc. etc. etc.) and not have finally gone, "Oh, gee, maybe we'd better not make toys out of this stuff any more"?
Oh, I found this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AmlBjFKTHM
They haven't used gold plastic in a few years, have they? Maybe they have learned?
Zobovor
Jul 15, 2015, 11:27:44 AM7/15/15
to
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 12:16:43 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> I think that either they are changing the formula for the gold plastic every
> few years, and believe they have it fixed, or they have weighed the value of
> gold plastic in terms of sales vs. stability and have decided it is worth it.
I think it goes back to Hasbro just not expecting collectors to hoard these things forever and ever. A kid buys a toy in 2005 and if he gets a good year or two of play out of it, then Hasbro's done their job. To me, though, a toy that I got ten years ago is still a "recent" purchase. I don't play with my toys in the sand and in the dirt or leave them outside in the rain or bash them into each other during pretend wars. All these things happened to my G1 toys so I can understand when they break apart. They fought a hard war and war has casualties. The most traumatic thing my Beast Wars toys ever saw was having to share a display shelf with the Animorphs toys.
> I think that either they are changing the formula for the gold plastic every
> few years, and believe they have it fixed, or they have weighed the value of
> gold plastic in terms of sales vs. stability and have decided it is worth it.
> They haven't used gold plastic in a few years, have they? Maybe they have
> learned?
Zob (and buying extra copies of toys won't do you any good... the plastic will chemically break down whether you play with the toys or not)
Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.
Jul 15, 2015, 9:05:24 PM7/15/15
to
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 1:16:43 AM UTC-5, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> Striker crumbles? What about BM Snarl?
>
> Oh, I found this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AmlBjFKTHM
>
> They haven't used gold plastic in a few years, have they? Maybe they have learned?
The last one I had suffer from GPS was 2007 movie preview Cybertronian Starscream.took him out of the box last year and just slightly adjusting the little wings on the lower legs was having pieces flake off
> Striker crumbles? What about BM Snarl?
>
> Oh, I found this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AmlBjFKTHM
>
> They haven't used gold plastic in a few years, have they? Maybe they have learned?
Zobovor
Jul 15, 2015, 11:35:53 PM7/15/15
to
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 9:27:44 AM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:
> I think it goes back to Hasbro just not expecting collectors to hoard these
> things forever and ever.
Yes, I am replying to my own posts. Just call me Deathy.
> I think it goes back to Hasbro just not expecting collectors to hoard these
> things forever and ever.
I've been thinking some more about this and something has occurred to me. So, the Transformers toy line came out in 1984, but by 1986, two years later, Hasbro was already killing off the vast majority of the 1984-85 characters. Two years and they were already considering the product obsolete.
Also, look at the live-action movies. We've had four of them now so that's enough to establish a pattern. Aside from Optimus and Bumblebee and Megatron, characters usually only last for one film, or two if they're very lucky. Decepticon characters are typically killed in the same film in which they're introduced. Not a single one of the 2007 movie toys represents a character in the here-and-now. Even the characters who survived all four films have gone through multiple bodies by this point. Again, planned obsolescence.
I'm beginning to think that Hasbro WANTS you to discard these toys after a couple of years. If a character is important enough, they'll cycle it back into the mix eventually. Now, me, I don't really consider my toys to be disposable. I'll throw out a pair of shoes once I've worn them out and I'll toss a pair of sunglasses if they break, but I tend to keep toys pretty much forever. I balk at the idea of another Cyclonus toy in Combiner Wars, but we haven't gotten Cyclonus since 2008, which is a lifetime ago in toy years. That's like complaining that we got an Action Master Inferno in 1990 when the original toy was just barely released in 1985.
So, anyway.
Zob (see you in 2023, when I'll be complaining about how my Combiner Wars toys are all falling apart)
No One In Particular
Jul 18, 2015, 2:35:06 PM7/18/15
to
On 7/15/2015 10:35 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 9:27:44 AM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Zob (see you in 2023, when I'll be complaining about how my Combiner Wars toys are all falling apart)
>
Won't be that long. I like the Combiner Wars toys, but I don't see
> On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 9:27:44 AM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Zob (see you in 2023, when I'll be complaining about how my Combiner Wars toys are all falling apart)
>
them holding up well long-term. And the ones that are actually being
played with by kids now probably won't last long at all. They feel less
flimsy than the Generations and TF:Prime toys from a couple of years
ago, but they still don't feel like the same level of quality as even
the Unicron trilogy in terms of plastic strength.
Brian
Travoltron
Jul 19, 2015, 1:03:17 PM7/19/15
to
On 7/14/2015 11:16 PM, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> They haven't used gold plastic in a few years, have they? Maybe they have learned?
Oh geez, I just remembered that Generations Goldbug, I mean "Goldfire"
> They haven't used gold plastic in a few years, have they? Maybe they have learned?
that came out last year.
http://tfu.info/2014/Autobot/GenGoldfire/goldfire.htm
Steve L.K. Macrocranios
Jul 24, 2015, 11:04:32 AM7/24/15
to
Zobovor wrote:
> I'm beginning to think that Hasbro WANTS you to discard these toys after a
> couple of years.
I think it's more like Hasbro expects kids outgrow playing with action figures after about two years. So they only have this 2 year window in which to sell the current generation of kids these characters before the next generation of kids comes along. Then they reshuffle the deck a little, refresh the engineering and recycle the same characters and color schemes to the next bunch of 8-10 year olds.
> I'm beginning to think that Hasbro WANTS you to discard these toys after a
> couple of years.
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