Anyone watching Earthspark?

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Gustavo Wombat

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Nov 17, 2022, 2:01:03 AM11/17/22
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It is possibly a continuation of G1 — the history of the Cybertronian war
is done in G1 style, and deviations from what we saw may be the effect of
an unreliable narrator, who is also a huge Bumblebee fanboy. Some
characters have a more feminine gender, but who is to say that we ever
really understood Skywarp’s gender anyway. Hasbro has referred to it as
“sort of G1.5”

Autobots and Decepticon are nominally at peace, after the war, and working
with the human agency GHOST, although neither Optimus nor Megatron seem to
fully trust the organization. Optimus is hiding things from them, and
Megatron is making speeches about freedom, even while hunting down rogue
Decepticons.

The series stars are Transformers created on Earth through a Cybertronian
artifact. A new species of Transformer, who are very childlike (as opposed
to the naive freshly created Arialbots in G1) and have a connection to
humans Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee and a few others show up and are main
characters, just not really the stars.
The main villain wants to hunt Transformers to create weapons to destroy
the Transformers, because of the previous war.

Overall… I hate the animation style. It’s goofy, like Animated, but lacks
that series’ charm. The story and the characters are pretty good though.

And it gives us what should be the new classic Megatron line… “Now,
Dorothy!”

(Plus, now I know about the Wakwak)

Codigo Postal

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Nov 17, 2022, 8:26:55 AM11/17/22
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The G1 flashbacks in the first episode were fantastic. Now I want an entire series of newly animated sequences homaging the G1 style. Transformers Devastation, but better.

The show itself...I know I'm not in the target audience. It's for kids, and I hope they enjoy it and fall in love with the brand.




Dave Van Domelen

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Nov 17, 2022, 8:42:04 AM11/17/22
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I've watched the opening two-parter, but that's as far as I've gotten so
far, as I still hadn't finished Dragon Prince S4 when Earthspark dropped (I
am not a binge watcher and would have preferred Earthspark be a weekly like
Lower Decks).
I'm okay with the animation style, it's a refinement on the style used
for the recent Rocketeer series on Disney Jr...and apparently the stories
will tend to be about that level too, from what others have said. Overall it
feels like they're shooting for a tone between regular "main line" cartoons
and Rescue Bots, skewing younger to make room for the Rise of the Beasts
movie to hit older audiences.
The voice acting for Optimus is pretty bad, hopefully that's because he
won't be showing up as much now that the premise has been established, so
they didn't worry much about getting someone good. The kids' VAs are good,
though.

Dave Van Domelen, sees it as Armada crossed with Masterforce with a
scarier Doctor Morocco as the antagonist.


Zobovor

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Nov 18, 2022, 11:26:54 AM11/18/22
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On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:01:03 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

All I really know about it is from the Twitter conversations. Apparently they're introducing characters with preferred "they/them" pronouns, so we can add Transformers to the pile of woke children's programming like Blue's Clues and Muppet Babies.

Now, I'm an adult and I don't have difficulty accepting concepts like identifying as a different gender or whatnot. (It's weird, but I am a grown man who buys plastic robot toys, so I am intimately familiar with weird.) But, these concepts absolutely don't belong in programming for three-year-olds. There's no point in trying to subvert social norms and societal expectations when kids that little haven't even really learned yet what those societal expectations even ARE.

I get that this is the direction a lot of media is headed. They're always trying to push the envelope and go as woke as they can get away with. I just don't like it. I wish we could just let kids be kids without trying to indoctrinate them.


Zob (still waiting for people to start using my preferred adjectives, which by the way are "brilliant" and "amazing")

Gustavo Wombat

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Nov 18, 2022, 2:01:26 PM11/18/22
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Do you know who has the least problem with they/them pronoun people? Kids.
They just get it.

The gender binary turns out to be the indoctrination. Go figure. They also
don’t get bothered or confused by trans folk, queer folk, etc. They ask
questions when it doesn’t fit a pattern, and then when told “some people
aren’t boys or girls, they’re just people… and some people marry their
dogs” they just add that information to their little brains and move on.

Pretty much anything shown to kids ends up being indoctrination of one form
or another, so we should be careful and conscious about what we are
indoctrinating our kids with (for instance, maybe don’t tell them that some
people marry their dogs, even if it seems funny at the time, although by
the time they get to marrying age that dog is probably dead, and anyway the
sex drive has kicked in and is probably not pointing at dogs)

Inclusion tells kids what is possible. It doesn’t tell them what to be
(although, if there were only non-binary characters…)

I’m queer. Somewhere in the bi/pan space — labels don’t matter that much to
me, so I just go with the umbrella terms. When I was growing up, there was
almost no queer representation of any kind, and what there was always ended
badly. There would be a special episode where a gay kid killed himself or
was beaten to death and everyone was sad. That sent a very clear message —
be straight if you want a decent life (and, being bi/pan that was an
option).

There’s a cute little teenage romance show on Netflix called
“Heartstoppers”. It’s adorable, and pretty generic other than being filled
with queer kids. Every old fag who watches it suddenly starts crying
because we never saw anything like that when we were growing up, and just
never had ourselves shown as normal and it’s left a heavy toll. Even old
queer folks who seem perfectly well adjusted and comfortable in their
skins.

Z: “There's no point in trying to subvert social norms and societal
expectations when kids that little haven't even really learned yet what
those societal expectations even ARE.”

Are non-binary people trying to subvert social norms and societal
expectations, or just live? As a pretty generic queer guy, I’m not
interested in subverting anything, I just want to be with who I want to be
with and not have it be a big deal. Non-binary gender explorers are
probably the same way.

I do think that young kids are not going to understand things like
anti-heroes, and deconstructing archetypes, but honestly enough adults have
trouble understanding that — lots of people watch Starship Troopers and
think the humans are the good guys.

Dave Van Domelen

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Nov 18, 2022, 2:38:44 PM11/18/22
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Travoltron

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Nov 18, 2022, 3:40:47 PM11/18/22
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On 11/18/2022 11:38 AM, Dave Van Domelen wrote:
> https://www.tumblr.com/itswalky/701001444349902848/shortpacked-victory
>
> Dave Van Domelen, got nothing to add.

Wouldn't be a Willis comic without a strawman, I guess.

Zobovor

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Nov 18, 2022, 5:03:38 PM11/18/22
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On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 12:01:26 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Do you know who has the least problem with they/them pronoun people? Kids.
> They just get it.

Going to disagree there.

When my son was five, a female teenager in my family decided that she wanted to identify as male. She didn't actually come out and say, "hey, this is my preferred pronoun," but she would start getting angry and indignantly correct people any time they referred to her as female (something we'd all been doing for the first thirteen years of her life). She got into a shouting match with my son, who was in kindergarten, when he innocently pointed out that she was a girl and that he was going to keep calling her "she," because that's what you call girls. He was confused and upset and he didn't understand what was going on.

Now, I suppose part of the problem was her indirect approach, but I think a big part of the problem was to expect a five-year-old child to wrap his head around a fairly arbitrary and abstract concept that his little brain probably just wasn't ready to handle. The episode has probably colored my perceptions about gender issues. But, everything we experience affects us one way or another. Maybe if that hadn't put such a bad taste in my mouth, I'd be more open to such ideas. Maybe I'm an awful person. Hard to tell from here.

> Pretty much anything shown to kids ends up being indoctrination of one form
> or another, so we should be careful and conscious about what we are
> indoctrinating our kids with.

Well, that's part of the problem. In a lot of the media I grew up with, the writers of children's cartoons often consulted with psychologists to ensure that what they were teaching kids was appropriate for their age, and could be understood by the intended audience. I don't see evidence of that now.

The new incarnation of Muppet Babies has attempted to establish its wokeness by making Gonzo a genderfluid character who sometimes likes to wear girl's dresses. The problem is, Gonzo has already been established in previous media as a total nutjob. He's a stark raving lunatic. For them to take the weirdo character and give him gender confusion, it only reinforces the idea that anybody who has gender issues must therefore be a weirdo. It's the exact opposite message they should be sending. I really don't think they thought this one through at all.

> Are non-binary people trying to subvert social norms and societal
> expectations, or just live?

I'm not talking about people in real life. I was specifically talking about media, and children's programming in particular.

There's been a big push in recent years to be as inclusive as possible when it comes to gender issues, sexual orientation, etc. Even Disney has cranked up the woke-o-meter when it comes to recent media, but they're doing it more conservatively and hoping it flies under the radar for most folks (Gaston being ambiguously gay in the Beauty and the Beast remake; a one-second same-sex kiss in Star Wars). I just question whether kids' media is the right place for wokeness. There are indisputably a lot of important and controversial issues in this world. Religion, gun control, politics, tax evasion, pineapple on pizza, etc. There is plenty of time for kids to worry about that shit when they're all grown up. I don't know why people are so determined to tackle adult issues in entertainment meant for preschoolers. At that point, it's no longer entertainment. It's pushing a political agenda.

For the Transformers brand to step into the ring and attempt to establish its own wokeness is, to put it mildly, a disappointment to me. But, as I said, it's the direction most media seems to be headed now. Hasbro's not even doing any bold trailblazing here, though. They're just quietly following in the footsteps of all the other shows that dared to do it first, and now it's a safe move to make, in small doses.

I'm trying to think of what the equivalent to this would have been when I was growing up. I suppose there might have been a deliberate push to include racial diversity in children's programming. There was a very clear directive in a lot of shows to include at least one token African-American, one token person of Asian descent, etc. It's more invisible to me because I was part of the target audience. Maybe the people who grew up a generation earlier than me were outraged that there was a movement to put so many black people on TV. But, when I watch syndicated stuff from, say, the 1960's, you can definitely see a difference versus the racial diversity present in 80's and 90's programming.

I'm wondering if I'm just inherently bigoted and/or am simply a product of my time. I've been on this spinning blue marble for close to half a century now, and the world has definitely changed in that time. It's possible I'm struggling to adapt. I don't know. My brain is old and inelastic and I don't like change. Part of me feels like thing should just be the way they've always been. Kids' shows weren't woke when I was growing up, so why do they have to be woke now?


Zob (awful person at large)

Irrellius Spamticon

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Nov 18, 2022, 9:51:37 PM11/18/22
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I don't get why there is such a rage over trying to be inclusive. I don't get why people are so enraged about what they declare "woke" but woke is just aware of social change. I don't get why people fear and hate an awareness of a changing society.

If people want to be called something specific, just call them what they want to be called. I know many kids decide for a while to be called something else and most parents will go along with it. People make mistakes and when the misnaming is an accident it's going to happen more than people want, but when people are denying people's identity it can be hurtful, and there's a reason trans people are 5 to 8 times more suicidal than other groups, and it's because people are trained to see them in a negative light because all of the anti-trans nonsense we hear.

I had people spouting debunked nonsense concerning trans people at work today, and I just found it incredibly sad.
"What if people trans people go in the women's bathroom and expose or abuse children" Well that's not happening, trans people are using stalls alone, and perverts who want to abuse kids aren't going to the extra and unnecessary effort to bother dressing like another gender. Besides abusing kids and exposing yourself in public is already illegal, so anyone who abuses anyone can already be arrested without punishing other people trying to use a bathroom stall in peace. I don't care what bathroom people use because I'm not there to socialize or touch anyone else, Anyone can and does choose to go in to a bathroom. If anyone does choose a certain bathroom for nefarious reasons it's not related to their choice of personal gender. Policing this shit is more likely to cause more problems than it fixes. Who do you want inspecting kids genders outside school bathrooms? because that seems like a job that will attract genuinely dangerous people.

I do agree shows can beat people up abut how inclusive they can be and how much of an ally they can be but this show didn't feel like that. It was one bit and it's not overtly in your face about it. It's not just stuffing every stereotype in there to accomplish some political correctness checklist. And the characters have backstory and depth. I like that programming over the ages is breaking away from rigid religious structures of post-war reconstruction. These different people always existed, we have records going back 4000 years of gender neutral or genderfluid people and homosexuality, but society was told not to talk about it because the bible is against it despite not actually mentioning it's against them in the testament that's supposed to be the active one now.

People say "woke" with anger and rage, and I don't understand how social awareness is so terrible. I'd love if our healthcare and education systems were nonprofit and properly funded while billionaires pay their fair share of taxes. It'd be great if people working long hours got paid enough to afford food and housing. I guess I'm "woke" but I don't think I'm evil.

Joseph Bardsley

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Nov 18, 2022, 11:24:42 PM11/18/22
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Just wanted to thank you for this brave and thoughtful response, Gustavo. (And I love that you used Starship Troopers as a metric, too).

It's always good to connect with other queer TF fans. It's amazing, truly, how much the world has changed: remember the "SOUNDWAVE MUST BE GAY1!1!" troll threads on ATT from good old Rob Cypher (RIP) back in the day? Trolls being trolls, that wouldn't fly, now.

- Joseph, remembering all too well the "dead gay guy" trope in so much 80s and 90s fiction. Glad we've moved beyond that.

Zobovor

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Nov 19, 2022, 1:09:23 AM11/19/22
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On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:51:37 PM UTC-7, Ob1k...@att.net wrote:

> I do agree shows can beat people up abut how inclusive they can be and how much of an ally they can be but this show didn't feel like that. It was one bit and it's not overtly in your face about it.

Well, as I said, I haven't seen the episode. All I really know about it is the things people are screaming about it on Twitter. But the controversy kind of makes me want to stay away from the show altogether, honestly. Like, I wasn't really interested in it before, but now I'm thinking I'm going to actively avoid it.


Zob (if I wanted to get angry about something, it would probably be the fact that the cats keep throwing up on the carpet, but never once do they offer to clean it up)

Travoltron

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Nov 19, 2022, 4:26:52 PM11/19/22
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Wasn't going to comment on this, but what the hell. Don't like to see
childless weirdos criticizing Zob's good parenting. Hasbro has gone off
the deep end, putting employees' pronouns onscreen in their livestreams
like idiots.

On 11/18/2022 11:01 AM, Gustavo Wombat wrote:

> Do you know who has the least problem with they/them pronoun people?
> Kids. They just get it.

Yes, kids don't know the difference between fantasy and reality. You
know what else kids have no problem with? Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny,
the Tooth fairy, and also religion.

> The gender binary turns out to be the indoctrination. Go figure.

No it isn't. It's scientific fact. Transgenderism and wokism are both
religions. No scientific proof behind any of it. Only pseudoscience and
blind faith.

> I’m queer. Somewhere in the bi/pan space — labels don’t matter that
much to me

I live in the Seattle are and everybody claims some sort of "queerness",
whatever that means. Being a basic-bitch straight white person is
frowned upon here and everybody wants to be a special snowflake. Working
in local government, I see that can get do well for your career due to
affirmative action, so I do get it.

> Are non-binary people trying to subvert social norms and societal
> expectations

Yes.


On 11/18/2022 6:51 PM, Irrellius Spamticon wrote:

> I don't get why there is such a rage over trying to be inclusive. I
> don't get why people are so enraged about what they declare "woke"
but > woke is just aware of social change. I don't get why people fear and
> hate an awareness of a changing society.

The social change is not natural, and it was engineered in academia and
used by politicians to divide us.
I graduated from The Evergreen State College in the 90s and I saw its
gestation and birth in real time. I was a super liberal until I went
there and saw the ugliness of far-left up close and personal.


>
> If people want to be called something specific, just call them what
> they want to be called.

No. I will never play along with a mentally ill person's delusions. I
did that once. My friend developed schizophrenia in college and we had a
really long night when we had to watch over him to make sure he didn't
kill himself. He was ranting about how he could turn people into X-Men
or Transformers. I was exhausted and just went along with it instead of
fighting it. He later told me going along with his delusion harmed him
greatly. Someone identifying as a mutant or Transformer is just as
insane as identifying as the opposite sex


> "What if people trans people go in the women's bathroom and expose or
> abuse children" Well that's not happening

It's not debunked and it is happening. The MSM isn't reporting it, but
if you read various news sources you will find the stories. TI recall a
sad one a couple of years ago where one of Seattle ubiquitous bums went
into the ladies room of a car dealership in a dress and raped a woman it
was mentioned on the news for one day and then forgotten.
They're also infiltrating women's prisons and raping and impregnating
the real women.

> Besides abusing kids and exposing yourself in public is already
> illegal,

Not anymore. If you lived where I lived, you'd know that most laws are
no longer enforced, thanks to idiot knee-jerk laws passed during the
anti-police moral panic.
Some of the local YMCAs lets female-identifying males shower with girls
as young as 15. Women and girls don't want this. But any women that
speaks up is labeled a "TERF" (more Orwellian newspeak), bullied, and
"canceled". See JK Rowling, a true feminist.


> These different people always existed

Homosexuals, yes. Gender dysphoria, yes. "Transgender", no. Uber creep
and pedophile Dr. John Money was the one that invented what we know as
transgender theory in the 70s. The kids he experimented on killed
themselves.

I don't care what you want to do in your sex life, just keep that crap
away from other people's children. That's why people are calling these
activists "groomers". If I had kids, I wouldn't let them watch these
kinds of programs either.

Like I said, I was a 90s liberal. Had friends of the LBG kind, when it
was extremely uncool to do so. Even had a punk friend that wore girls'
clothes sometimes. He never pretended to be a woman, he just liked
wearing skirts. But then people shifted the overton window so far to the
left that I'm labeled as a conservative now, despite not changing my
beliefs much.

I'm sure everybody is offended by reading this, and I really don't care.
Every day I'M offended when I see what a shithole our local politicians
have made out of the PNW in such a short period of time. This kowtowing
and pandering to .01% of the population is only one part of the problem.
It's systemic corruption.

Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats

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Nov 19, 2022, 8:28:42 PM11/19/22
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On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 2:03:38 PM UTC-8, Zobovor wrote:
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 12:01:26 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
> > Do you know who has the least problem with they/them pronoun people? Kids.
> > They just get it.
> Going to disagree there.
>
> When my son was five, ...


> Now, I suppose part of the problem was her indirect approach, but I think a big part of the problem was to expect a five-year-old child to wrap his head around a fairly arbitrary and abstract concept that his little brain probably just wasn't ready to handle.

So, when people are worried about their children being confused, they are worried about a momentary thing? Jesus Fucking Christ. I do hope your child has somehow recovered from this calamity, I recommend you laminate the little beast before someone spills something on him.

Seriously, I expect your kid learned quickly and adapted. Kids are good at that.

> > Pretty much anything shown to kids ends up being indoctrination of one form
> > or another, so we should be careful and conscious about what we are
> > indoctrinating our kids with.
>
> Well, that's part of the problem. In a lot of the media I grew up with, the writers of children's cartoons often consulted with psychologists to ensure that what they were teaching kids was appropriate for their age, and could be understood by the intended audience. I don't see evidence of that now.

There's been a lot of research that shows that representation matters.

Lack of representation does far more harm than the momentary confusion of adapting to new information.

(Really baffled that it's a momentary confusion that people are upset about -- do your kids know that ice cream comes in other flavors? Or that salty and sweet go together? Or that seals are dog mermaids?)

Does it help your lily-white, straight-ass child to be exposed to things outside their immediate world locked in a box in your basement? Honestly, a fair bit -- learning to have empathy for someone who is not exactly like yourself is important. But, it's a far greater benefit for the kids who aren't lily-white, straight assed rugrats.

> The new incarnation of Muppet Babies has attempted to establish its wokeness by making Gonzo a genderfluid character who sometimes likes to wear girl's dresses. The problem is, Gonzo has already been established in previous media as a total nutjob. He's a stark raving lunatic. For them to take the weirdo character and give him gender confusion, it only reinforces the idea that anybody who has gender issues must therefore be a weirdo. It's the exact opposite message they should be sending. I really don't think they thought this one through at all.
> > Are non-binary people trying to subvert social norms and societal
> > expectations, or just live?
> I'm not talking about people in real life. I was specifically talking about media, and children's programming in particular.

Should it not reflect real life, where real life is not harmful? Like, skip the genocide (although I think Transformers is built upon a story of genocide, as the planet has been depopulated by war), but leave the elements of life. Sometimes there are single parents (Sparkplug), sometimes there are disabled people (Chip), crossdressers (Carly is obviously just Chip, and Chip isn't really disabled), mentally impaired folks (Daniel, Wheelie), black people (ok, we have to step out of G1 to get to any who speak, but Fowler), and sometimes there are queer kids and non-binary and the like.

And sometimes a robot will not think that either "he" or "she" is really right for their robotic little life.

> There's been a big push in recent years to be as inclusive as possible when it comes to gender issues, sexual orientation, etc. Even Disney has cranked up the woke-o-meter when it comes to recent media,

I remember when wokeness was "has black or brown people and even girls". Really, that was just a few years ago. Months... ok, it's happening right now with people still being angry about a black woman in a Star Wars show.

(BTW, Andor... way more subversive, an anticapitalist delight!)

> For the Transformers brand to step into the ring and attempt to establish its own wokeness is, to put it mildly, a disappointment to me. But, as I said, it's the direction most media seems to be headed now. Hasbro's not even doing any bold trailblazing here, though. They're just quietly following in the footsteps of all the other shows that dared to do it first, and now it's a safe move to make, in small doses.
>
> I'm trying to think of what the equivalent to this would have been when I was growing up. I suppose there might have been a deliberate push to include racial diversity in children's programming. There was a very clear directive in a lot of shows to include at least one token African-American, one token person of Asian descent, etc. It's more invisible to me because I was part of the target audience. Maybe the people who grew up a generation earlier than me were outraged that there was a movement to put so many black people on TV. But, when I watch syndicated stuff from, say, the 1960's, you can definitely see a difference versus the racial diversity present in 80's and 90's programming.

And at some point the brown folks stopped being tokens and even became characters. It was wild.

> I'm wondering if I'm just inherently bigoted and/or am simply a product of my time. I've been on this spinning blue marble for close to half a century now, and the world has definitely changed in that time. It's possible I'm struggling to adapt. I don't know. My brain is old and inelastic and I don't like change. Part of me feels like thing should just be the way they've always been. Kids' shows weren't woke when I was growing up, so why do they have to be woke now?

You think shows back then weren't woke? You just pointed out how woke they were. You just didn't use the maligned word that came from Black folks.

Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats

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Nov 19, 2022, 8:32:44 PM11/19/22
to
On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:26:52 PM UTC-8, Travoltron wrote:
> Wasn't going to comment on this, but what the hell. Don't like to see
> childless weirdos criticizing Zob's good parenting. Hasbro has gone off
> the deep end, putting employees' pronouns onscreen in their livestreams
> like idiots.
> On 11/18/2022 11:01 AM, Gustavo Wombat wrote:
>
> > Do you know who has the least problem with they/them pronoun people?
> > Kids. They just get it.
> Yes, kids don't know the difference between fantasy and reality. You
> know what else kids have no problem with? Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny,
> the Tooth fairy, and also religion.
> > The gender binary turns out to be the indoctrination. Go figure.
> No it isn't. It's scientific fact. Transgenderism and wokism are both
> religions. No scientific proof behind any of it. Only pseudoscience and
> blind faith.

You're very silly. And know nothing of biology.

> > I’m queer. Somewhere in the bi/pan space — labels don’t matter that
> much to me
> I live in the Seattle are and everybody claims some sort of "queerness",
> whatever that means. Being a basic-bitch straight white person is
> frowned upon here and everybody wants to be a special snowflake. Working
> in local government, I see that can get do well for your career due to
> affirmative action, so I do get it.

Many mediocre white men are very upset that being mediocre and white is no longer enough. I expect that this is what is happening to you. Have you considered moving to Idaho? You might be happier.

Irrellius Spamticon

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Nov 19, 2022, 8:38:50 PM11/19/22
to
These stories are horseshit. Far right extremist sites keep making up stories, and their only "source" is another site owned by the same company. In reality, trans people are sent to the prisons of their birth gender and end up murdered pretty quickly.
The only credible bathroom stories are right wingers staging assault events while dressed as women, or completely fabricated stories to drive clicks to extremist sites.


> > Besides abusing kids and exposing yourself in public is already
> > illegal,
> Not anymore. If you lived where I lived, you'd know that most laws are
> no longer enforced, thanks to idiot knee-jerk laws passed during the
> anti-police moral panic.
> Some of the local YMCAs lets female-identifying males shower with girls
> as young as 15. Women and girls don't want this. But any women that
> speaks up is labeled a "TERF" (more Orwellian newspeak), bullied, and
> "canceled". See JK Rowling, a true feminist.
>

The YMCA here has individual shower stalls. People rarely have situations where they have group showers. Group showers are always creepy as fuck and most people avoid them at all cost.
Women in the YMCA can also wait for a trans person to leave. You choose when you shower at the YMCS if your YMCA actually has group showers.

"I hate trans people" and "you're not allowed to be who you are" isn't speaking up, it's hate speech. It doesn't make you a hero.

>
> > These different people always existed
>
> Homosexuals, yes. Gender dysphoria, yes. "Transgender", no. Uber creep
> and pedophile Dr. John Money was the one that invented what we know as
> transgender theory in the 70s. The kids he experimented on killed
> themselves.
>

1kid he experimented on killed himself and another person ODed, both did decades later as adults. . He didn't invent transgender, he classified it. He named something that existed for centuries. Every science can find some terrible person who did terrible research. Gynecology was born of research on prisoners and poor black women. People were butchered, and died. We have records going back 800 years before Christianity of people in power dressing and acting like the opposite gender and even breast and genital augmentations, and it probably happened more often, but it's just they didn't have the amplification of fear media back then making people intimately aware of the personal decisions of private individuals.

> I don't care what you want to do in your sex life, just keep that crap
> away from other people's children. That's why people are calling these
> activists "groomers". If I had kids, I wouldn't let them watch these
> kinds of programs either.
>

So instead of letting people use whatever bathroom stall we should have people in schools policing children's genitals? Ithink that's a much worse solution to a problem that's only happening in fabricated extremist clickbait rageporn.
Trans people aren't grooming kids. Perverts are grooming people. The problem is there's a concerted effort to make sure that people dub all trans people perverts despite the fact they're two distinctly separate groups. Instead of treating people like people, they're declaring them yucky, and "pedophile" is the title the far right gives anyone who disagrees with them right before they advocate for gunning down pedophiles in their homes. It doesn't matter if the person is an actual pedophile. They upset the alt-right, so close enough.

> Like I said, I was a 90s liberal. Had friends of the LBG kind, when it
> was extremely uncool to do so. Even had a punk friend that wore girls'
> clothes sometimes. He never pretended to be a woman, he just liked
> wearing skirts. But then people shifted the overton window so far to the
> left that I'm labeled as a conservative now, despite not changing my
> beliefs much.
>

I used to be a centrist, then the center moved to the right so far that I'm a leftist because I don't want to listen to Nazi crap and I don't want to make it harder for US citizens to vote because if the white supremacist spouting hate speech doesn't win then there must be cheating and not just that people show up to vote against the bigotry. I just want to leave people alone and let them make their own decisions.

It's become too unpopular to openly hate black people or openly hate gay people, so trans people are the next "they" excluded group they can point to to inspire exclusionary hate of "those kind of people" who are different. It's how Fascism starts every time. Back in WWI and WWII Germany, it was Jews, and Freemasons, (and it still is in the Qanon circles) but trans people are just the latest scapegoats to distract the middle class while the corporations and billionaires rob them. Transgender people just have less defenders than other groups. They're the easy targets.

Zobovor

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Nov 19, 2022, 11:55:49 PM11/19/22
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On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 6:28:42 PM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> You think shows back then weren't woke? You just pointed out how woke they were.

The shows that I grew up on taught messages about how people of different colors can live together in harmony, and how women can make just as much of a contribution to society as men, and how you should try to become so insanely rich that you literally have a swimming pool filled with gold coins in which you can do the backstroke. Those are fine messages. Those are good things for kids to learn.

Some of the modern woke messages I just can't get behind. But, that's my failing.


Zob (old and inelastic)

Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats

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Nov 20, 2022, 6:19:58 PM11/20/22
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> > I don't care what you want to do in your sex life, just keep that crap
> > away from other people's children. That's why people are calling these
> > activists "groomers". If I had kids, I wouldn't let them watch these
> > kinds of programs either.
> >
> So instead of letting people use whatever bathroom stall we should have people in schools policing children's genitals? Ithink that's a much worse solution to a problem that's only happening in fabricated extremist clickbait rageporn.
> Trans people aren't grooming kids. Perverts are grooming people. The problem is there's a concerted effort to make sure that people dub all trans people perverts despite the fact they're two distinctly separate groups. Instead of treating people like people, they're declaring them yucky, and "pedophile" is the title the far right gives anyone who disagrees with them right before they advocate for gunning down pedophiles in their homes. It doesn't matter if the person is an actual pedophile. They upset the alt-right, so close enough.

On the subject of indocrination, you really have to marvel at the toxic shit people like Travoltron consume that make them so full of hate.

It's not just lies, it's well crafted lies with a number of entry points into the entire ecosystem of alt-right indoctrination and hate. Note Comrade Travolton's comments about affirmative action, and how being a straight white person is frowned upon, etc.

The middle class of America is failing, at the same time as minorities are getting closer to equal rights. If you've been measuring yourself against Hated Minority #17 (whichever minority boats your float) then white man seems to be losing ground to them, despite it actually being both groups moving towards a decreasing line that is a middle class lifestyle. Not only do default straight white men stop getting promoted for just being there, but queer people, brown people and women actually have a chance to get promoted.

A combination of loss of privilege and a decline in quality of life, which sets the stage for someone to turn all that anger against the minorities who are getting a fairer share of a decreasing pie, rather than being upset that the pie is decreasing. And then they can stoke up the rage and the hate, because hatred feels good.

This thought feels good: "Working in local government, I see that can get do well for your career due to affirmative action, so I do get it." All your problems are someone else's fault, not yours, and it's an easy to identify group.

And the "groomers" which is any remotely queer person who comes within 150 feet of a child.

Meanwhile, a friend of mine had a withdrawn and depressed 13 year old son who was setting fires and committing acts of self harm, and now has a 15 year old daughter who is outgoing and way less self destructive. Whoever groomed that kid may well have saved her life.

I don't understand trans folks, but I do know that they are in pain and we have no way to align the brain with the body so the only thing we can do is align the body with the brain -- it's the *kind* thing to do.

(Attempts to align the brain with the body fail badly, and have a high rate of suicide and self harm... maybe there will be new drugs in the future or something, but right now, this is what we have)

(The detransition rate (% of people who transition who try to go back) is lower than the dedetransition rate (% of people who have detransitioned who then transition again). The medical regret rate (% of people who, after surgery, wish they had not had it) after gender affirming surgeries is about 2%, which is in the range of the medical regret rate for people who had an appendectomy)

But this is stuff that someone like Travoltron will dismiss because they once heard about three incidents which have been repeatedly reported three hundred times.

Anyway, I was not thrilled with how Nightshade was revealed to be non-binary -- Optimus was flailing for a pronoun, and then the kid's emotion sleeve blinked and the kid said that Nightshade doesn't identify as he or she. It cuts the agency of the character.



Irrellius Spamticon

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Nov 21, 2022, 12:08:21 AM11/21/22
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"Why isn't the MSM covering this" because the "MSM" let people know that whatever it was, it was an unfounded hoax and moved on to actual news.

> The middle class of America is failing, at the same time as minorities are getting closer to equal rights. If you've been measuring yourself against Hated Minority #17 (whichever minority boats your float) then white man seems to be losing ground to them, despite it actually being both groups moving towards a decreasing line that is a middle class lifestyle. Not only do default straight white men stop getting promoted for just being there, but queer people, brown people and women actually have a chance to get promoted.
>

"The great Replacement" has white guys terrified immigrants and their descendants are coming for their jobs. Never mind that they're descendants of immigrants. The reality is that without all of the Jim Crow and redlining and other discrimination of minorities they're soon to have a third of the opportunities of the white man.Also most of the current minorities the white people fear will end up as those white person's grandchildren, because nobody is being replaced, people are ust free to intermarry.

> A combination of loss of privilege and a decline in quality of life, which sets the stage for someone to turn all that anger against the minorities who are getting a fairer share of a decreasing pie, rather than being upset that the pie is decreasing. And then they can stoke up the rage and the hate, because hatred feels good.
>
> This thought feels good: "Working in local government, I see that can get do well for your career due to affirmative action, so I do get it." All your problems are someone else's fault, not yours, and it's an easy to identify group.
>
> And the "groomers" which is any remotely queer person who comes within 150 feet of a child.
>
> Meanwhile, a friend of mine had a withdrawn and depressed 13 year old son who was setting fires and committing acts of self harm, and now has a 15 year old daughter who is outgoing and way less self destructive. Whoever groomed that kid may well have saved her life.
>
> I don't understand trans folks, but I do know that they are in pain and we have no way to align the brain with the body so the only thing we can do is align the body with the brain -- it's the *kind* thing to do.
>
> (Attempts to align the brain with the body fail badly, and have a high rate of suicide and self harm... maybe there will be new drugs in the future or something, but right now, this is what we have)
>
> (The detransition rate (% of people who transition who try to go back) is lower than the dedetransition rate (% of people who have detransitioned who then transition again). The medical regret rate (% of people who, after surgery, wish they had not had it) after gender affirming surgeries is about 2%, which is in the range of the medical regret rate for people who had an appendectomy)
>

Most de-transitions happen because of the hate and vitriol they get from family and society for trying to be themselves. It's hard for them to get jobs or find housing because of the crazy stories people hear.

> But this is stuff that someone like Travoltron will dismiss because they once heard about three incidents which have been repeatedly reported three hundred times.

Just reminds me of the right wing anger machine outraged that a fictional school has a fictional litterbox for a fictional teacher that identifies as a cat.

>
> Anyway, I was not thrilled with how Nightshade was revealed to be non-binary -- Optimus was flailing for a pronoun, and then the kid's emotion sleeve blinked and the kid said that Nightshade doesn't identify as he or she. It cuts the agency of the character.

I haven't gotten that far yet but I hope the series to give everyone some decent characterization.

Joseph Bardsley

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Nov 21, 2022, 1:28:02 AM11/21/22
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Also wasn't going to comment on this - and I still am doing my best not to - but wanted to simply say: I don't think it's ever OK to use "childless" as a pejorative.

Many folks choose to remain childfree throughout life for all kinds of reasons - economic, social, health, or simply so as to not contribute to burgeoning and systemic patterns of over-population and over-consumption, particularly in Western countries like the US and Canada - and that choice doesn't make them "weirdos" or less-than in any way.

JB

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 1:26:52 PM UTC-8, Travoltron wrote:

Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats

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Nov 22, 2022, 3:39:30 AM11/22/22
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On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 9:08:21 PM UTC-8, Ob1k...@att.net wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, I was not thrilled with how Nightshade was revealed to be non-binary -- Optimus was flailing for a pronoun, and then the kid's emotion sleeve blinked and the kid said that Nightshade doesn't identify as he or she. It cuts the agency of the character.
> I haven't gotten that far yet but I hope the series to give everyone some decent characterization.

Nightshade is introduced in the final episode of the first batch that dropped, so there isn't a lot of time for characterization. So, basically all we know about them at this point is their pronouns and that Mo reveals the pronouns.

It's a weird storytelling choice. Maybe the relationship between the robots and the kids will be explored more, and having Mo speak for them there will make sense later, but for now it is weird.
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