Well that was disappointing, sadly.
The Wombat King
I'm not going to go through it page by page like some people since you'll
find a ton of posts like that already. I'll just say I was hoping for
something really good, but this whole series turned out to be something that
would probably have been great if animated in 1984. I love the G1 toon for
what it's worth, a 1984 cartoon, but was hoping this comic would stand up to
the standards of 2002. The whole series had some good parts that while
reading I was hoping would take off, but then just fizzled out with either
confusing panels of art or cheesy dialogue.
I really wanted to like this series so much, since I was really excited to
hear the old guys were coming back. Now, I want to put this comic the same
place I have Beast Machines and Armada. In the "it never happened"
category. That's just me though. I'm sure there are plenty of people out
there that love this new series. I have to really wonder though if they
enjoy it like I enjoyed RiD by thinking it was simply a "fun" series, or if
they just want Transformers back so badly they will settle for this. Now
I'm not knocking ya if you liked the series, but I have to wonder which one
it is. Since really by no means could this series be consider great work.
I am also beginning to think that Pat Lee isn't really that great of an
artist. He seems to do great pin up type stuff, but some of the comic looks
rushed or just uncaring. Or maybe it's just I hate his version of Prime,
and the fact every Transformer is fat with big ol meaty hands and rounded
off bodies. I do really like the color artist though.
Overall, I did like this mini series, even if I wasn't really impressed with
it. I'd rate it a C+. I don't know, maybe Transformers just needs to be an
animated thing. I might have liked this better since the animation could
have possibly told a better visual story than flat art.
Now for some spoilers.
What the hell is up with killing Superion? Really? I don't know much about
nukes, but why couldn't he just pull a Superman and aim it into space.
Granted that would have been another plot devise I would have groaned at,
but at least he wouldn't have just been obliterated. And Wheeljack can't
die. He's too crazy to die, and too cool.
I know the whole Grimlock not coming back to Prime was supposed to be
dramatic, but I just didn't seem to care.
I still want more G1 comics, but I would like them to pass it onto another
writer, and artist.
WK
Still loves the cartoon Prime the best. He was thick headed about a lot of
things, but was still great and a little nuts.
Chris R Leazer
> Now for some spoilers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What the hell is up with killing Superion? Really? I don't know much
about
> nukes, but why couldn't he just pull a Superman and aim it into space.
> Granted that would have been another plot devise I would have groaned at,
> but at least he wouldn't have just been obliterated. And Wheeljack can't
> die. He's too crazy to die, and too cool.
Wheeljack and the Aerialbots are 2 (6) of my favorites.
I am sad to see them go. I'm not sure why Superion couldn't
redirect the missile. Oh well, it was a cool explosion.
One of the great things about the whole TF line
is that there are hundreds of characters (does anyone have
an exact count? Including even the black sixturbo? maybe
more like 1000?). One of the tough things about telling
TF stories is that there are hundreds of characters.
For example, where'd Brawn go this issue? What about
the rest of the Decepticons?
If Saracini is going to weed out the ranks a little, at
least Superion died a hero, and Wheeljack really did
save the world.
These deaths are, at the very least, more satisfying than
the horrible death scenes in TF:TM.
> I know the whole Grimlock not coming back to Prime was supposed to be
> dramatic, but I just didn't seem to care.
Well, I guess its tough to care since we all expect
Grimlock to eventually become a good guy again,
whether its in 6 issues or 16 issues.
If Saracini really wants us to care, he needs to have Grimlock
kill a few humans, and then wind up regretting it for the rest
of his days.
> I still want more G1 comics, but I would like them to pass it onto another
> writer, and artist.
Pat obviously ran up against the clock with the past few issues.
I hope Dreamwave plans their schedule out so that the art
doesn't have to be rushed. That being said, I thought the art
in this issue was much better than issue #5.
I really dislike the way Pat draws Prime's chest, though.
As for Saracini, I enjoy his writing in Armada immensely,
and his writing in this series really seemed to pick up
after the first few issues.
Does anyone know how involved Pat was in plotting this series?
Perhaps thats one of the problems with this series.
The next series should be better, if Pat and Chris
can really start to click together.
--
-cleazer
"Sky-Byte, that's me!"
MegaGear X
<< What the hell is up with killing Superion? Really? I don't know much about
nukes, but why couldn't he just pull a Superman and aim it into space.
Granted that would have been another plot devise I would have groaned at, but
at least he wouldn't have just been obliterated. >>
Why couldn't he just have shot it down or shoot it until it exploded? Superion
does have a gun... Stupid self sacrifices in comics really suck. First
Colossus, now Superion. At least Wheeljack went out cool.
Lemee see...
Decepticons escaped
Grimlock is on his own
Humans are pretty divided on Transformers
Superion and Wheeljack are pressumed terminated
Guess we're due for a sequel? These guys need to work on the writing. The
pictures are great, but the writing needs killer work. I thought Lazarus was
the main baddie, until this general dude shows up in#5... Grimlock turning heel
had zero heat. He didn't do anything. (We don't see him actually KILL a human,
but he did tear up property) Guess it wasn't a trick, but it had zero effect.
They might as well have not wrote him into the story in the first place... I
don't think those guys killed in #6 are dead.
------------------------------------------------
"Hey. It's those pesky X-Men."
-Cyclops, New X-Men #125
"Ohhh, I'm going to have some FUN, now!"
-Megatron, DW Transformers#2
"Feel the storm? It's coming!"
-Terry Bogard, Fatal Fury Movie
Dan
reviews, I'm sure I won't be disappointed. In fact, I was wondering how
they were going to wrap things up. Now that I know, I'm looking forward
to reading it more than before.
The Wombat King wrote:
>I really wanted to like this series so much, since I was really excited to
>hear the old guys were coming back. Now, I want to put this comic the same
>place I have Beast Machines and Armada. In the "it never happened"
>category. That's just me though. I'm sure there are plenty of people out
>there that love this new series. I have to really wonder though if they
>enjoy it like I enjoyed RiD by thinking it was simply a "fun" series, or if
>they just want Transformers back so badly they will settle for this. Now
>I'm not knocking ya if you liked the series, but I have to wonder which one
>it is. Since really by no means could this series be consider great work.
>I am also beginning to think that Pat Lee isn't really that great of an
>artist. He seems to do great pin up type stuff, but some of the comic looks
>
>
Yow, that's pretty harsh. While I agree with the sentiment that I don't
want some aspects of this story arc to have happened, I'd disagree
strongly with "it's by no means great work". I'm still slack-jawed
every time I look back through the first 5 issues (both covers). This
is the kind of artwork I like to see. The confusing panel sequences
aside, this is _great_ stuff. To answer your question, the story is a
nice walk in an enchanted wood, but I'm not really "desperate". I miss
the cartoon a lot, sure, but this isn't just filler. (I got tired of
RID pretty fast. Too bad more of the series wasn't like the Fort Max
episodes.)
>rushed or just uncaring. Or maybe it's just I hate his version of Prime,
>and the fact every Transformer is fat with big ol meaty hands and rounded
>off bodies. I do really like the color artist though.
>
>
Okay, I'm hoping to spawn a respectable sub-thread from this. I've
heard^W read many people express the opinion that they prefer (O_o) the
comic look of TFs to the cartoon-inspired look. How they don't like the
rounded-off body parts. Now, while I don't quite like the Minicars as
drawn in this series, I HIGHLY prefer them to their US G1 comic looks.
Sort of "cute like a Mini-con" :) And other than them, I'm fascinated
with Pat's work. Here are my questions to everybody:
Of those whose first exposure to TFs was the comic, is there _anyone_
who prefers the cartoon look?
Of those who watched the cartoon first, and later found the comic, do
you all like the "cartoon look" better, the rounded corners, the
"anthropomorphizing" of metal beings, as I do? Or do some of you like
the comic style better?
I love Pat Lee's take on drawing TFs. It's probably the visual aspect,
more than anything else, that _keeps_ me from liking the previous
comics. The storylines sound interesting (I've read maybe 10 or 15 G1
issues, 1 or 2 G2 issues, and nothing non-US), but the drawing style is
highly... boring? However, as I think I've hypothesized before, what
you saw first determines which you like better.
>WK
>Still loves the cartoon Prime the best. He was thick headed about a lot of
>things, but was still great and a little nuts.
>
>
Uh-oh. Maybe my theory is flawed from the start. I assumed your first
exposure was to the comic, and that you weren't impressed with DW G1 art
because of it. Or is the above only in reference to the character, not
the appearance?
Dan; sinus infection clouding the mental clarity...
vegetaprime
>
> Of those whose first exposure to TFs was the comic, is there _anyone_
> who prefers the cartoon look?
> Of those who watched the cartoon first, and later found the comic, do
> you all like the "cartoon look" better, the rounded corners, the
> "anthropomorphizing" of metal beings, as I do? Or do some of you like
> the comic style better?
>
I like the look of the new comic. I can't really remeber what I saw first,
that was damn near 20 years ago. It must have been my first toy..
ANyway, the only part I don't like about Pats work is the way he did Prime's
Windows and alt mode. In #5 it reallt sticks out like a sore thumb when
prime charges after Debistator. He doesn't look like a big truck. I think
Pat shoulda realized we are used to seeing them "morph" slightly to
accomadate new angels..Ex..Prime in robot mose is fine with an angular
chest. but, Big Truck mode needs to be flat. And those windows, what the
fuck is up with those thick, pokey out, window liners. It looks really
weird..Okay..thats enough from me
--
-vegetaprime
Owner of: Guilmon Bread
Impmon's toy gun
"Its not until you've lost everything that your free to do anything"
-Tyler Durden
"There's really no such thing as a
no-strings-attached booty call;
booty ALWAYS has strings attached."-
--Gustavo Wombat
posted on ATT
Chris McFeely
> want some aspects of this story arc to have happened, I'd disagree
> strongly with "it's by no means great work".
I think he was saying that series as a whole was "by no means great work,"
rather than just the art.
> Of those whose first exposure to TFs was the comic, is there _anyone_
> who prefers the cartoon look?
I quite like the Dreamwave art. It still beats the pants off of the original
G1 comic's art - but, and I stress this BUT - it's because of the gorgeous
colouring. That really... excuse my pun... colours a person's view of the
art. Lee's work is repeatedly inconsistent - he changes the shapes and sizes
of the characters from page to page (observe how Devastator's various
details warp and change in #4), but the biggest offender to me is the way
that he make zero attempt to replicate the details he puts into the TFs. By
details, I mean all those lines and squares and things in the TFs' armour.
They change over, and over, and OVER, from panel to panel, never mind page
to page. Admittedly, it would be *very* hard to actually re-draw them, but
if he can't do it, then he shouldn't be doing it at all.
His incarnation of Prime seems to another big sticking point for fans,
primarlly down to those *stupid* jutting out windows in his chest, with the
white frames, which ruin the look. And the white markings on his arms are
also very annoying - I'm aware that the middle section of the arm was
coloured white in some Japanese art long ago, but it never had those stripes
on his shoulders and wrists. And the colourist VERY rarely remember that
those stripes should even BE there, as they too appeared and disappeared
from page to page.
Lee's pin-up stuff is much, much better than his sequential art, because he
tries to make each panel look like it's a pin-up on it's own (and this is
without even getting into his inability to draw different human faces, the
fact he does not draw in the anime style no matter what anyone tells you,
and that he can't do very good expression of emotion). Most, if not all, of
the artists who worked on the original G1 comic were much better at laying
out a page than he is, even if their robots didn't look "kewl."
James Raiz is a much better artist, who can do all the things Lee can't.
> Of those who watched the cartoon first, and later found the comic, do
> you all like the "cartoon look" better, the rounded corners, the
> "anthropomorphizing" of metal beings, as I do? Or do some of you like
> the comic style better?
I don't really have a preference. I don't know the ins-and-outs of every TFs
cartoon and toy model. The only thing from DW that really jumps out at me is
that Jazz has shoulder-doors, Soundwave hasn't been given his shoulder
cannon, and Prowl, in a moment of utter stupidity, has been given his
rubsign sticker. I can tell who's who otherwise, and don't really care what
version of the character they're based on. As far as the original G1 comic
goes, I don't mind the way it was drawn, but the colouring dragged it down,
with it's "everything is blue" attitude. I swear, Nel Yomtov coloured every
US comic, and yet he would still make mistakes like colouring Decepticon
symbols red towards the end of the series. What would really make fans go
nuts would be the Marvel comic, coloured like a DW book.
Chris
M Sipher
news:ap9iva$s7u$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Of those whose first exposure to TFs was the comic, is there _anyone_
> > who prefers the cartoon look?
>
> I quite like the Dreamwave art. It still beats the pants off of the
original
> G1 comic's art - but, and I stress this BUT - it's because of the gorgeous
> colouring. That really... excuse my pun... colours a person's view of the
> art.
I have to agree. It's got technology behind it. It's a lot like videogames
now... it seems that it's easier to hide a bad game under flash and
prettiness.
> Lee's work is repeatedly inconsistent - he changes the shapes and sizes
> of the characters from page to page (observe how Devastator's various
> details warp and change in #4),
Check out Bumblebee and Cliffjumper's legs in #6. Since when did they have
wheels on the BACKS of their thighs?
> but the biggest offender to me is the way
> that he make zero attempt to replicate the details he puts into the TFs.
By
> details, I mean all those lines and squares and things in the TFs' armour.
> They change over, and over, and OVER, from panel to panel, never mind page
> to page. Admittedly, it would be *very* hard to actually re-draw them, but
> if he can't do it, then he shouldn't be doing it at all.
Yes. I don't like this for a variety of reasons. There's the inconsistancy
to start with. There's the feeling that Lee's art philosophy is "the TFs are
a bunch of tech details slammed together, HOW they go together is not
important".
And then there's that there's weird techy-panel detail in places that
frankly aren't SUPPOSED to have it. Prime's chest is a truck cab. How many
real truck cabs do you see all meched-out like that? They're laregly solid,
uninterrupted planes of metal/fiberglass/whatever.
To my eye, it actually looks LESS realistic.
> His incarnation of Prime seems to another big sticking point for fans,
> primarlly down to those *stupid* jutting out windows in his chest, with
the
> white frames, which ruin the look. And the white markings on his arms are
> also very annoying - I'm aware that the middle section of the arm was
> coloured white in some Japanese art long ago, but it never had those
stripes
> on his shoulders and wrists. And the colourist VERY rarely remember that
> those stripes should even BE there, as they too appeared and disappeared
> from page to page.
Well, in this issue especially, Prime looks like he's being inflated like a
Macy's day balloon. He'd have to walk bowlegged in order to move with those
legs. And how was he able to see his own shoulders in that first-person
persective shot?
> Most, if not all, of
> the artists who worked on the original G1 comic were much better at laying
> out a page than he is, even if their robots didn't look "kewl."
And far better at portraying action and mass. Senior's art might have been
almost abstract, but it was chock full of emotion, NORMAL motion, impact...
> James Raiz is a much better artist, who can do all the things Lee can't.
I wonder about his anatomy sometimes, though. There's still too many
"crunched abs" for my tastes. Plus... why spittle?
> The only thing from DW that really jumps out at me is
> that Jazz has shoulder-doors, Soundwave hasn't been given his shoulder
> cannon, and Prowl, in a moment of utter stupidity, has been given his
> rubsign sticker.
Heh. I can only find myself drawing rubsign stickers on toys when that's the
ONLY sigil they got... and even then, I make sure the sigil proper is shown
in the normal color.
M "I Think The Best Way Of Putting Lee's Art Is 'Style Over Substance'... I
Prefer Substance" Sipher
--
King Weasel Productions
Home of the productions of King Weasel!
Original stuff, Transformers, MegaMan/RockMan and more crap!
http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/simak/109/
Chris McFeely
> now... it seems that it's easier to hide a bad game under flash and
> prettiness.
Well, Lee's art is not the WORST I've seen, certainly, but the colouring
does disguise many of it's flaws to more casual readers.
> Check out Bumblebee and Cliffjumper's legs in #6. Since when did they have
> wheels on the BACKS of their thighs?
Don't have that one yet (damn Hasbro and their damn non-American shipping),
but yeesh...
> Yes. I don't like this for a variety of reasons. There's the inconsistancy
> to start with. There's the feeling that Lee's art philosophy is "the TFs
are
> a bunch of tech details slammed together, HOW they go together is not
> important".
It basically amounts to the fact he's drawing whatever the hell he feels
like drawing at any given moment, without respect for what he's done before.
> And then there's that there's weird techy-panel detail in places that
> frankly aren't SUPPOSED to have it. Prime's chest is a truck cab. How many
> real truck cabs do you see all meched-out like that? They're laregly
solid,
> uninterrupted planes of metal/fiberglass/whatever.
Not if you go by Lee's rendition of 'em. ;)
> Well, in this issue especially, Prime looks like he's being inflated like
a
> Macy's day balloon. He'd have to walk bowlegged in order to move with
those
> legs. And how was he able to see his own shoulders in that first-person
> persective shot?
Said before, don't have it, but the final page of #1 was a good example of
wonky legs on Prime. And the cover of the TPB is all shades of messed up in
the leg department (not to mention that it has COSMOS on it... geez...)
> And far better at portraying action and mass. Senior's art might have been
> almost abstract, but it was chock full of emotion, NORMAL motion,
impact...
What is with the way Lee draws mouths, anyway?
Speaking of action and mass, I was leafing through #5 the other day, and the
part where Sunstreaker and Sideswipe... er... just jump at Devastator is a
good example of Lee's lack of ability in this area. They're simply hanging
in mid air. There's no sense of movement at all (but, I suppose one can
attribute a little of this to the background artist once again...)
> I wonder about his anatomy sometimes, though. There's still too many
> "crunched abs" for my tastes. Plus... why spittle?
Well, Raiz still isn't the best, but I like him a lot more than Lee (and
maybe a bit more than Figueora [sp], if only because Don's robot designs are
monotonous). I'm sure Wildman drew spittle at some point. ^^;;
> Heh. I can only find myself drawing rubsign stickers on toys when that's
the
> ONLY sigil they got... and even then, I make sure the sigil proper is
shown
> in the normal color.
I don't draw a lot of TF stuff, but if I did, and was faced with that, I'd
replace the rubsign with the faction symbol.
> M "I Think The Best Way Of Putting Lee's Art Is 'Style Over Substance'...
I
> Prefer Substance" Sipher
That was the exact phrase that came to me a while after making my post. /:)
Chris
M Sipher
> > I have to agree. It's got technology behind it. It's a lot like
videogames
> > now... it seems that it's easier to hide a bad game under flash and
> > prettiness.
>
> Well, Lee's art is not the WORST I've seen, certainly,
Oh, not at all, not at all. I mean, he's no Manny Galan.
> but the colouring
> does disguise many of it's flaws to more casual readers.
http://boards.allspark.com/ikonboard.cgi?s=2a539c73faa8029f763eb189a6ba3ab2;
act=ST;f=5;t=9175;st=40
Check out Walky's color-job on some Delbo art. Heheheheh.
> > Check out Bumblebee and Cliffjumper's legs in #6. Since when did they
have
> > wheels on the BACKS of their thighs?
>
> Don't have that one yet (damn Hasbro and their damn non-American
shipping),
> but yeesh...
I'm looking at #5 right now. Bumblebee's wheels are on the bottoms of his
feet, in the wheel hubs, which is admittedly where they are on his Action
Master form.
Cliffjumper, however... doesn't have ANY wheels on his feet at all.
> > Yes. I don't like this for a variety of reasons. There's the
inconsistancy
> > to start with. There's the feeling that Lee's art philosophy is "the TFs
> are
> > a bunch of tech details slammed together, HOW they go together is not
> > important".
>
> It basically amounts to the fact he's drawing whatever the hell he feels
> like drawing at any given moment, without respect for what he's done
before.
It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't snowball like it did.
> Said before, don't have it, but the final page of #1 was a good example of
> wonky legs on Prime. And the cover of the TPB is all shades of messed up
in
> the leg department (not to mention that it has COSMOS on it... geez...)
That I don't like either. The slideshow covers of characters how have
nothing to do with the contents of the issue. Sigh.
> > And far better at portraying action and mass. Senior's art might have
been
> > almost abstract, but it was chock full of emotion, NORMAL motion,
> impact...
>
> What is with the way Lee draws mouths, anyway?
Megatron's lack of lips scare me.
> > I wonder about his anatomy sometimes, though. There's still too many
> > "crunched abs" for my tastes. Plus... why spittle?
>
> Well, Raiz still isn't the best, but I like him a lot more than Lee (and
> maybe a bit more than Figueora [sp], if only because Don's robot designs
are
> monotonous). I'm sure Wildman drew spittle at some point. ^^;;
I didn't like it then, either. Well, okay, it works for Fangry's beast mode.
> > M "I Think The Best Way Of Putting Lee's Art Is 'Style Over
Substance'...
> I
> > Prefer Substance" Sipher
>
> That was the exact phrase that came to me a while after making my post.
/:)
Can't really ADD anything to that thought...
M "Clone Army! AAAIIIEEEE!!!!" Sipher
vegetaprime
>
> That I don't like either. The slideshow covers of characters how have
> nothing to do with the contents of the issue. Sigh.
>
I was begining to wonder if I was the only one that thought that was
pretty..well..odd. I think it has to do with biiks like Witchblade , Spawn,
or other Kwewl books. The covers always seem like pin up art with nothing to
say about the story inside. I amging if Lee took the time to draw a cover
like the one with Scorpanock versus Shockwave.
Chris McFeely
> nothing to do with the contents of the issue. Sigh.
Well, there are degrees. There are some covers I quite like (the #1 covers
spring to mind), but there are others that I don't - such as Menasor and the
Insecticons. It's one thing to not reflect events that are in the comic,
it's another to draw characters that don't appear in *any* of the six
issues.
The "serial collectability" of the different covers is enough of an excuse
for it not to bug me that much. However, the TPB is one single book, and the
cover SHOULD have reflected the events within. The image might be all right
on it's own if Cosmos and Bumblebee weren't there.
> Megatron's lack of lips scare me.
It's more that weird, freaky mouth of Sideswipe's that tilts up to, like,
his eyebrow that freaks me out...
Chris
PWDESAI
Spoilers?
BOO YEAH YOUR RIGHT WHEELJACK SHOULDN"T DIE FUCK DREAMWAVE
Craig Little, hiding in a google morass
> What would really make fans go
> nuts would be the Marvel comic, coloured like a DW book.
>
> Chris
Oh man, DEFINITELY. I wish I had the technology and capability to do a
Dreamwave colouring job on Target: 2006 (the image when Magnus comes
running in to face Galvatron especially) or TF #5 with all the diabled
'bots and Shockers.
Excuse me while I wipe the drool off my monitor...
TJMD
>
>
> Spoilers?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> BOO YEAH YOUR RIGHT WHEELJACK SHOULDN"T DIE FUCK DREAMWAVE
Anything else you want to add to your "F*** Dreamwave cuz they killed the
one Transformer I wanted to have sex with!" He died in the movie, do you
hate Hasbro?
TJMD
Thomas Hamann
>
>
>Spoilers?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>BOO YEAH YOUR RIGHT WHEELJACK SHOULDN"T DIE FUCK DREAMWAVE
This has to be the most articulated post I've ever seen on this
newsgroup.
No, Really.
Thomas Hamann, sometimes wonders if certain people actually have
brains...
--
My website: http://evilskylark.tripod.com/
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