When LEGO Stops Making Plastic Bricks, Will Hasbro Follow Suit?

[Zobovor]

The LEGO Group has announced that they're looking for alternative, sustainable materials that will, eventually, completely replace the current made-of-plastic bricks that has been a mainstay of the brand since 1963:

http://www.groovebricks.com/lego-planning-to-replace-abs-plastic-by-2030/

LEGO is an industry leader and this will have profound ramifications on the toy industry as we know it. Mattel and Hasbro will likely be pressured into adopting similar tactics to remain competitive and environmentally sustainable.

One alternative is cellulose acetate, a plant-based compound made from tree pulp and currently used in a limited capacity for consumer products like sunglasses and buttons and playing cards. LEGO originally used it for their building bricks but switched to the more durable ABS plastic after discovering that their early bricks lost the ability to lock together after prolonged use.

If this is the new material LEGO chooses, then it's likely this is the direction Hasbro could go in as well. What does this mean for Transformers? Cellulose acetate can accept dyes and can be molded into specific shapes easily, but it lacks tensile strength, dissolves easily, and is biogegradable (which means toys won't just turn yellow after exposure to the sun; they'll completely break apart). I'm envisioning Transformers toys with all the durability of particle board.

I'm not trying to start a panic. Indeed, we won't have to worry about this for at least another 15 years at the minimum (longer if Hasbro drags their feet in the wake of LEGO's switchover), but it's still something to consider!


Zob (15 years isn't really a long time... I still think of Robots in Disguise as a "new" Transformers series)

[Cappeca]

Em quinta-feira, 2 de julho de 2015 05:52:38 UTC-3, Zobovor escreveu:
>
> http://www.groovebricks.com/lego-planning-to-replace-abs-plastic-by-2030/

>
>
> Zob (15 years isn't really a long time...

Do they expire while in package? If not, then it will be time to invest in the MISB market. If by 2030 I start buying stuff and keeping it sealed, I'1l have lots of money by 2050, as I turn 74. There's my retirement plan!

On the other hand, they'll probably sell blueprints for 3d printers, and you'll print your own parts for the new Lego Star Wars Episode XV at home.

[Ultra Magnotron]

On 7/2/2015 1:59 PM, Cappeca wrote:
> On the other hand, they'll probably sell blueprints for 3d printers, and you'll print your own parts for the new Lego Star Wars Episode XV at home.

So... I love the idea of a company selling blueprints for 3D printers,
but I don't love how easy it would be for people who don't like to
spend money to get their hands on pirated blueprints.

Say I buy blueprints for Transformers parts (I lose those little guns
all the time! And Ebay users want more than $1 to replace them!? No.
I refuse to pay more than $1) and then I take my blueprints and
I decide to make copies. Those copies can be freely distributed
and anyone else who refuses to pay more than $1 for tiny plastic
guns.

I don't like this... companies lose money this way. And I'm not
one to really defend corporate America, but if Hasbro goes under
how will I get my TF fix? 3rd parties charge too much.

When 3D printing becomes the next big thing, they need a way to
make a profit where people who don't like spending money can't
take advantage too easily.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal should do some torrent
searches. There are blueprints freely available for all kinds
of stuff. I found some interesting toys too... like, nothing
I'd ever spend money on, but whoever created the blueprints
for those tiny toys is definitely creative. If s/he could pitch
those things to a company s/he could probably make some good money.
Probably have to scale the size up... so they're not choking
hazards.

[Cappeca]

Em sexta-feira, 3 de julho de 2015 14:12:59 UTC-3, Ultra Magnotron escreveu:
> When 3D printing becomes the next big thing, they need a way to
> make a profit where people who don't like spending money can't
> take advantage too easily.
>

Oh, they'll find ways, that's for sure. In a thousand years, once humanity evolves to Star Trek standards, the current ink cartridge will be considered the biggest evil ever done to mankind.

[Zobovor]

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 11:12:59 AM UTC-6, Ultra Magnotron wrote:

> I don't like this... companies lose money this way. And I'm not
> one to really defend corporate America, but if Hasbro goes under
> how will I get my TF fix? 3rd parties charge too much.

Here's my thinking. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but here we go anyway. I don't see how 3D printed toys could ever replace official Transformers.

For one, 3D printed objects don't have the same tensile strength as molded plastic parts. They're printed in layers and the bond between the layers is only so great. They wouldn't be appropriate for some types of transformations.

The printers themselves are expensive. Yeah, you can get a super-cheap one for under $300, but a good one costs much more. Resin is expensive and cost prohibitive. It can cost anywhere from $25 for two pounds of plastic to $500 for the really good stuff.

There is also the time factor. Pieces can take hour or days to print. Transformers are made up of many, many moving parts. Do the math.


Zob (terse when I'm tired)

[Cappeca]

Em sexta-feira, 3 de julho de 2015 21:14:25 UTC-3, Zobovor escreveu:
>
> For one, 3D printed objects don't have the same tensile strength as molded plastic parts. They're printed in layers and the bond between the layers is only so great. They wouldn't be appropriate for some types of transformations.
>

Considering how modern plastic feels cheap on current Transformers, I don't think it would be such a stretch.

I've been to two significant business events this year. One was in Las Vegas in february, sponsored by IBM. There was this small company at the hall, and they had this nice 3d printer making keychains for the crowd. The end result was sturdy! The whole machine looked like a teleporter, it was awesome. I asked about price and availability (around $2000, in stock) and it seemed pretty affordable for a new technology. I mean, I come from a time where stuff like this would cost $200,000 and only Nasa had one or two. Now I can bring a teleporter home for the cost of my own plane ticket? I mean, sure it's expensive, but it's not expensive *enough*, considering how new this is. It's cheaper than a good gaming PC.

The second event I've been to was here in Sao Paulo, sponsored by HSM. Big names talking about how Google is trying to change some business models from "having" stuff to "using" stuff, turning product into service. That's already happening.

3d printers capture my imagination, because of it's potential to fill our necessity for self-gratification almost instantly. I have to wait 30~45 days for my toys to come from China - imagine taking 10 hours to print recently released molds! Downloading a movie also takes time, but it might be quicker than going to a store looking for the media and not finding it. I don't own the stuff on Netflix, but I can watch it as long as it's there. How about a wave of available molds for a short period of time? Color coded or customized, you choose. I don't think it's suitable as it is for our current business model, but in 15 years it might become a reality:

----
Zob's thoughts on Tele-Masters Bumblebee

So now Hasbro is releasing molds for 3d printers, and I was lucky to find a mold card for G1 Bumblebee at my local walmart. I'll be honest, I haven't watched this new cartoon yet - they're trying to revamp the -masters thing using the printer gimmick as teleporters while treating the concept completely wrong. But since they're also releasing the G1 characters in this new format, I had to buy one to try it out. My own 3d printer is an old HP model from 2026, but the cards are backwards compatible, so no big deal. The card is valid for 5 days, so I can print as many Bumblebees as I want. Hasbro has once again dropped the ball on the colors, since the final product is more gold than yellow, and it's a bit different from the TV version. I captured some screenshots from the cartoon and decomposed the image, so the code for the yellow shade that most closely resembles the cartoon is #543537245672. The card is a bit expensive at $2 because you can print both Cliffjumper and Bumblebee from it, since Hasbro STILL thinks one is a straight repaint of the other. There's a third party company releasing a mold card patch to fix the issue and making it an actual Cliffjumper, but the problem is that it overwrites Bumblebee information and invalidates the card for recycling with the Collectors Club. The scale is also wrong, but you can fix it by hacking the Z factor on the card. Good thing these cards are not blindpacked like the GIJoes.

[Zobovor]

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 2:53:11 PM UTC-6, Cappeca wrote:

> 3d printers capture my imagination, because of it's potential to fill our
> necessity for self-gratification almost instantly.

For some reason I feel very strongly that it just won't take off like everybody is hoping it will. It already exists as a fringe market, not much different from what people have already done for years, using resin to create reproduction parts. I don't think it's going to gain more popularity than that. People are inherently lazy creatures. The average mass market consumer is not going to want to make their own toys. It's hard work. (I'm using the term "work" in the George Jetson push-button sense of the word. In today's day and age, doing laundry or washing dishes is a fully automated process-you just drop the soap in and push a button--and yet we all hate doing it.)

However, I recognize that the world is changing. I couldn't have predicted smart phones that can play TV programs and connect to the World Wide Web, and I couldn't have forseen self-publishing being available to everyone in the world through e-books. So, perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised by another game-changing technology such as this.

By the way, the review you (I?) wrote was hilarious.


Zob (very in-character)

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 3:53:11 PM UTC-5, Cappeca wrote:
> Em sexta-feira, 3 de julho de 2015 21:14:25 UTC-3, Zobovor escreveu:
> >
> > For one, 3D printed objects don't have the same tensile strength as molded plastic parts. They're printed in layers and the bond between the layers is only so great. They wouldn't be appropriate for some types of transformations.
> >
>
> Considering how modern plastic feels cheap on current Transformers, I don't think it would be such a stretch.
>
> I've been to two significant business events this year. One was in Las Vegas in february, sponsored by IBM. There was this small company at the hall, and they had this nice 3d printer making keychains for the crowd. The end result was sturdy! The whole machine looked like a teleporter, it was awesome. I asked about price and availability (around $2000, in stock) and it seemed pretty affordable for a new technology. I mean, I come from a time where stuff like this would cost $200,000 and only Nasa had one or two.

Some of the retail ones here are $500, and for $135 you can buy a circuit board and a file that would let you make that printer print all the parts for a second printer. The printed things I've seen frequently still has line, and would need to be sanded down and refinished.

The Microsoft Store here has a Maker-Bot display occasionally. I say occasionally because they have had to repair it four times in six months, and it still will sometimes just start randomly laying down plastic outside of the design instructions.

>Now I can bring a teleporter home for the cost of my own plane ticket? I mean, sure it's expensive, but it's not expensive *enough*, considering how new this is. It's cheaper than a good gaming PC.
>

I can max out a gaming PC for around $1400 now with an i7 extreme 6 core processor, gaming tower, board, 1200W power supply, 16GB ddr3, PC prices are dropping rapidly (unless you pay full retail, which is silly)

> The second event I've been to was here in Sao Paulo, sponsored by HSM. Big names talking about how Google is trying to change some business models from "having" stuff to "using" stuff, turning product into service. That's already happening.
>
> 3d printers capture my imagination, because of it's potential to fill our necessity for self-gratification almost instantly. I have to wait 30~45 days for my toys to come from China - imagine taking 10 hours to print recently released molds! Downloading a movie also takes time, but it might be quicker than going to a store looking for the media and not finding it. I don't own the stuff on Netflix, but I can watch it as long as it's there. How about a wave of available molds for a short period of time? Color coded or customized, you choose. I don't think it's suitable as it is for our current business model, but in 15 years it might become a reality:
>

You overestimate people's ability to assemble things I think. If you don't like simple molds now, wait until you have to put it together yourself. Every part will have to be large to pass choking standards, gone will be spring loaded gimmicks and launchers. 3rd party will have to make add-on files for every mold to get the stuff we have now, and you would still have to paint everything yourself.

> ----
> Zob's thoughts on Tele-Masters Bumblebee
>
> So now Hasbro is releasing molds for 3d printers, and I was lucky to find a mold card for G1 Bumblebee at my local walmart. I'll be honest, I haven't watched this new cartoon yet - they're trying to revamp the -masters thing using the printer gimmick as teleporters while treating the concept completely wrong. But since they're also releasing the G1 characters in this new format, I had to buy one to try it out. My own 3d printer is an old HP model from 2026, but the cards are backwards compatible, so no big deal. The card is valid for 5 days, so I can print as many Bumblebees as I want. Hasbro has once again dropped the ball on the colors, since the final product is more gold than yellow, and it's a bit different from the TV version. I captured some screenshots from the cartoon and decomposed the image, so the code for the yellow shade that most closely resembles the cartoon is #543537245672. The card is a bit expensive at $2 because you can print both Cliffjumper and Bumblebee from it, since Hasbro STILL thinks one is a straight repaint of the other. There's a third party company releasing a mold card patch to fix the issue and making it an actual Cliffjumper, but the problem is that it overwrites Bumblebee information and invalidates the card for recycling with the Collectors Club. The scale is also wrong, but you can fix it by hacking the Z factor on the card. Good thing these cards are not blindpacked like the GIJoes.

I can't stop laughing at how accurate all of this is. Add in a ridiculous model number for the printer (like K3011aMTL or something) and I'd totally believe it.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

And an explanation for the model number. "3011a means that it was printed in the morning of of November 30th, while the MTL is short for Mighty Towering Legume, which is what Bumblebee became known as in Quebec once Hasbro lost the rights to his actual name to the Bumblebee tuna company."

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

Not even close. 3011A was chosen by a focus group as a number that people won't remember until they look at the machine again but think to themselves that it's an entirely easy number to remember. The material refill number will be 24A, 25B, 26C, and 31C, for no reason other than to make customers question their choices. MTL will be Material Textile Large-gyrocopter

[Cappeca]

The HP Michelangelo series released back in 2025 did in fact named their models after random, easy to remember, numbers. This series became an internet meme since people were expecting them to release either the HP Donatello or the HP Lovecraft afterwards, so they tried to focus on the model numbers in their publicity campaing. The modern 2030 Google Sculprinters have model numbers according to the specific laser gauge they use for the finish job. Because printing with soft metals is hard, you know.

[Chad Rushing]

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:52:38 AM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
>
> The LEGO Group has announced that they're looking for alternative, sustainable materials that will, eventually, completely replace the current made-of-plastic bricks that has been a mainstay of the brand since 1963:
>
> http://www.groovebricks.com/lego-planning-to-replace-abs-plastic-by-2030/

I gotta say that this is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. What on earth is LEGO thinking? I've got LEGO toys from when my uncle was growing up that have still retained their quality after all of these decades. That simply won't be the case with materials that are -intended- to biodegrade over time. My condolences to LEGO collectors everywhere ... and to toy collectors in general if this becomes a new trend.

- Chad

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

would my Lego submarine dissolve in the bathtub?

[banzait...@gmail.com]

I totally missed this thread. I think 3D printers will explode in the next ten years. I remember about 6 years ago reading about them in scientific American, thinking, "wow! I hope I live to see this". Now, you can get a very good one for a few hundred bucks. I have a colleague at work who is into 3d printing (get this, he 3d printed his 3d printer parts!). #mindblown
He prints out these puzzles and brings them to work. They are fascinating... some of them are intricate assemblies of gears that you just spin, all in a single "toy" that cannot be broken or disassembled without taking a hammer to it. Printing robot pieces would be totally doable on his self made printer.
If you think back to the first printers... They were SUPER expensive, slow, black and white, and large. Now, they are throw away technology, that are capable of printing photo quality color pictures. All that took about 10-15 years. I suspect the relatively same evolutionary pace will occur with 3d printing. I am typically bearish on new technologies, but I think this has the potential to be the next big disruptive piece of technology. I assure you, before we die, we will be able to download a transformer from Hasbro.com, and print it out at home. In fact, I will go on OFFICIAL ATT RECORD to say this will happen before 2025. (The nascent invention of Lee press on wheels will help this become reality!)

-Banzaitron

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 2:52:38 AM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:

> The LEGO Group has announced that they're looking for alternative,
> sustainable materials that will, eventually, completely replace the
> current made-of-plastic bricks

It's begun, folks. Much earlier than expected:

https://tinyurl.com/plant-legos

To summarize for anyone who doesn't want to read the whole article, they're going to be making LEGO bricks out of "botanical elements," specifically a form of polyethylene made from sugarcane. LEGO is promising that the plant-based plastic is soft and flexible and will be identical to existing LEGO bricks. Which seems like a contradiction to me, since current LEGO parts are hard and rigid.

As I said before, I guess we'll see if Hasbro does this too, eventually. Worst case scenario, when the zombie apocalypse comes and there's no more food, I guess you could always eat your Transformers...


Zob (bought a dog bed for the kitten brothers today)

[banzait...@gmail.com]

Hmm, did you actually read the article? The soft and flexible part is referring to to the lego trees and plants. Not the bricks. They actually don't say they are making bricks out of the material, just the plants.

-Banzaitron

[Zobovor]

Representatives from LEGO are describing it as a "first step" and their eventual endgame is "making all LEGO bricks using sustainable materials." So, the bricks are coming eventually.


Zob (got a Valentine's Day koala for $0.49 today)

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

Are the plant Legos edible? How can a collector keep Legos? will they break down and need to be replaced every decade or so?

[eric....@gmail.com]

Would using some type of clear coat sealant work to preserve a plant-based plastic substitute?

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 8:02:57 AM UTC-6, eric....@gmail.com wrote:
> Would using some type of clear coat sealant work to preserve a plant-based plastic substitute?

Would a clear coat interfere with building with them?

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 2:52:38 AM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:

> If this is the new material LEGO chooses, then it's likely this is the direction Hasbro could go in as well. What does this mean for Transformers?

So I know you all have been sitting on the edge of your seats. Well. y'all can rest easy. LEGO is giving up on the idea, at least on the short-term:

https://www.energymonitor.ai/news/signal-oil-free-lego-bricks-scrapped-amid-sustainability-concerns/

They still want to do environmentally-sustainable bricks, eventually, but their plan to create bricks out of recycled water bottles failed immeasurably and actually left more of a carbon footprint than just making plastic out of petroleum.

So, our Transformers are safe, at least for the forseeable future.


Zob (now if Hasbro can just figure out how to stop plastics from spontaneously yellowing right out of the package...)