What If They Weren't Aliens?
Zobovor
fact that they're this otherworldly mechanical life form that's
millions of years old and hails from another galaxy? Obviously, most
of the Autobots and Decepticons look like regular cars and planes, but
we know this is a clever ruse, and that their true forms are bizarre
and mysterious and clearly not of this Earth.
What if, instead, the Transformers had been conceived in the fiction
as man-made machines that were created during contemporary times?
Even if they were still treated as "living" robots with their own
thoughts and feelings and desires, would it lessen the mystique if we
knew that the reason they looked like Earth machinery was because they
*were* Earth machinery? How important is it to the fiction that the
Transformers are aliens?
What about the characters who were, officially, created on Earth (the
Dinobots; possibly the Constructicons; the Stunticons; Trypticon)? Do
you find them less interesting or appealing because they're not true
Cybertronians and lack the longevity of the original cast?
Zob
SteveD
>How much of the appeal of Transformers do you think stems from the
>fact that they're this otherworldly mechanical life form that's
>millions of years old and hails from another galaxy?
I think it improves the story and allows more scope for storytelling and
historical depth. We not only get "Optimus and Megatron battle in New
York", we also get things like _War Dawn_, _War Within_, and other stories
which have nothing to do with present-day (at time of release) Earth.
It's a vaster backdrop. Starscream's treachery isn't just going to affect
a bunch of overgrown Terran toaster ovens, it could potentially affect the
course of interstellar history. There's the extra dimension of the
Autobots fighting on the side of Earth out of a sense of friendship rather
than because it's where they grew up. They're putting themselves out of
their way and far from home to be here, etc etc.
Besides, lots of 80s cartoons got mileage out of SF/fantasy backgrounds
which meant the characters could plausibly go to a lot more places and do
cooler things. Or it was just seen as more attractive to the kids they
were trying to market to to say the robots came FROM SPAAAAACE.
Other standard 80s options included FROM THE FUTURE, WITH MAGIC, WITH
SUPERSCIENCE, and IN A FANTASY WORLD. Sometimes combined.
(And I'll mention Time Wars, Decepticon Raider, Superweapon of the Week,
and Madman's Paradise here.)
-SteveD
Victoryleo
created on Earth (the Dinobots; possibly the Constructicons; the
Stunticons; Trypticon)? Do you find them less interesting or
appealing because they're not true Cybertronians and lack the
longevity of the original cast?"
Zob,not sure what your trying to imply here.. just because some
transformers weren't created on cybertron doesn't meant there not
immortal & made of weaker metals,circuits & so forth.
The constructicons have 3 different origins in the cartoon
series,oddly enough a different constructicon origin for each season.
don't forget about the comic origins for various tranformers that
differ from the cartoon origins.
As far as longetivity goes, all the generation 1 transformers are
powered by cybertronian sparks & laser cores. they can live just as
long as the other cybertron made bots. as far as metals go,the earth
made dinobots dino forms were stronger than most autobots vechicle
based bots. Trypticon's metals were strong too because metroplex could
harm him.
As far as popularity goes,I freaking loved those Trypticon & metroplex
battles in season 3. trpticon was so bad ass the way he'd rise from
the ocean like Godzilla to hunt down metroplex.
Stunticons were my favorities because they challenged the car autobots
on equal land. those motormaster & prime truck smashing battle were so
cool to watch..
Gustavo Wombat
> How much of the appeal of Transformers do you think stems from the
> fact that they're this otherworldly mechanical life form that's
> millions of years old and hails from another galaxy?
> What if, instead, the Transformers had been conceived in the fiction
> as man-made machines that were created during contemporary times?
> Even if they were still treated as "living" robots with their own
> thoughts and feelings and desires, would it lessen the mystique if we
> knew that the reason they looked like Earth machinery was because they
> *were* Earth machinery? How important is it to the fiction that the
> Transformers are aliens?
I think the alien aspect helps with the suspension of disbelief -- I
know our machines aren't very bright, and aren't going to wake up one
day and be sentient, but alien machines? Sure, why not?
And, if they didn't have the alien origin, we would lose a lot of
potential stories -- some of which have already been beaten to death
in the various fictions... In every fiction except Animated, we are
shown the Transformers as a fallen culture, where the height of their
culture's growth and achievement is long past.
But, I think we could live without all of that, if the replacement
origin was good enough. The core aspect to the Transformers is that
they are disguised, and that anything around you might be a robot
hiding and waiting. This gets lost pretty quickly in most of the
fictions, and that's a shame. It's also one of the few things that the
live action movie did well, and did differently than what came before.
If the Transformers came from Earth, we would doubtless see more
stories based around the Frankenstein angle -- the creation gets up
and walks out the door. We've seen variants of this in the first
Dreamwave series, and the Transformers/GI-Joe series, where although
the Transformers were alien, they were under human control and
eventually broke free. They weren't very compelling stories.
But mostly, if Transformers were created by humans, there would
doubtless be a big government conspiracy involved, and I just don't
like the government conspiracy stories.
Silvershot
> Zobovor wrote: "What about the characters who were, officially,
> created on Earth (the Dinobots; possibly the Constructicons; the
> Stunticons; Trypticon)? Do you find them less interesting or
> appealing because they're not true Cybertronians and lack the
> longevity of the original cast?"
>
> Zob,not sure what your trying to imply here.. just because some
> transformers weren't created on cybertron doesn't meant there not
> immortal & made of weaker metals,circuits & so forth.
>
> powered by cybertronian sparks & laser cores. they can live just as
> long as the other cybertron made bots. as far as metals go,the earth
> made dinobots dino forms were stronger than most autobots vechicle
> based bots. Trypticon's metals were strong too because metroplex could
> harm him.
>
Hmm . . I think when Zob says "lack the longevity" he is referring to
the fact that the Cybertronian transfomers have been around for millions
of years, while the Earth-born Transformers and brand new. I don't
think he's implying that Cybertronian Transformers are stronger or will
last longer.
Zob?
-Silvershot
retardomontalban
> know our machines aren't very bright, and aren't going to wake up one
> day and be sentient, but alien machines? Sure, why not?
What? Have you not seen Terminator? Its' a warning, man! And a WAKE UP
CALL!!!
Now......go shoot your blender.
Zobovor
> Hmm . . I think when Zob says "lack the longevity" he is referring to
> the fact that the Cybertronian transfomers have been around for millions
> of years, while the Earth-born Transformers and brand new. I don't
> think he's implying that Cybertronian Transformers are stronger or will
> last longer.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at. Thanks, Silvershot.
However, Deathy does bring up a good point. Transformers created on
Earth are made from Earth metals, which means they probably *aren't*
as strong as Cybertron alloys. The Dinobots were tough in their
dinosaur modes, but they were extremely vulnerable as robots, a fact
that Megatron exploited in "Desertion of the Dinobots" when an airport
explosion blasted the Dinobots to tiny pieces. Also, what about the
Stunticons? They're made out of normal, everyday cars, which means
they're predominantly steel and fiberglass. Megatron mentioned
something about them being equipped with forcefields that made them
indestructible, which they'd probably need just to function. (We've
seen what happens when those forcefields aren't turned on, too.
Warpath runs his fist right through Dead End's roof in "Masquerade"
like he was made of crépe paper.)
I don't even understand *how* they managed to build Trypticon out of a
human city while the residents were apparently still living there, so
I'm not going to even get into the fact that he should be made of
bricks and wood planks, not metal alloys.
Zob
SteveD
>Transformers created on
>Earth are made from Earth metals, which means they probably *aren't*
>as strong as Cybertron alloys.
Unless Cybertronian materials technology is better than Earth's.
A modern industrial operation can turn raw materials into a huge variety
of structural and scientific-quality items which simply weren't available
a hundred years ago. Carbon fibre. Industrial diamonds. Pure tungsten and
titanium by the truckload. Metallic ceramics. LED lasers.
The limiting factors would be locating and securing raw material, how much
of Cybertronian manufacturing capability can be reproduced in a smallish
military base on Earth, and the capacity of the space bridge to bring in
specialised parts.
Certainly Decepticons don't seem to have any issues with grabbing bits of
whatever's lying around, presumably seeing it as semi-processed.
My guess is that Earth-built Transformers are probably not 100% as
strong/powerful/durable/whatever when they're first built, but there's not
necessarily anything stopping them from gradually upgrading as better
materials become available. The question is how long such a process might
take, given the situation they find themselves in.
I'd like to think that a fully-equipped Cybertronian medical facility
could pretty much do the complete upgrade in a matter of hours.
It's also possible that if a Transformer is brought online via an
accelerated or emergency process, their faction starts to build them a
'proper' body somewhere in a back room, and they get swapped into it once
it's ready.
-SteveD
SteveD
>I don't even understand *how* they managed to build Trypticon out of a
>human city while the residents were apparently still living there, so
>I'm not going to even get into the fact that he should be made of
>bricks and wood planks, not metal alloys.
He was built almost completely out of forcefields initially, but equipped
with modules/systems which gradually performed the conversion later on?
-SteveD
ShadowWing
"SteveD" wrote
> Zobovor wrote:
>
>>I don't even understand *how* they managed to build Trypticon out of a
>>human city while the residents were apparently still living there, so
>>I'm not going to even get into the fact that he should be made of
>>bricks and wood planks, not metal alloys.
>
> He was built almost completely out of forcefields initially, but equipped
> with modules/systems which gradually performed the conversion later on?
Also, who knows what cities were built from and how they were constructed
by their version of 2005. History took a number of different paths from our
own once the Transformers woke up. They still have a Soviet Union. There's
space travel and meetings (and Olympic-style events) with space aliens. They
have hovercars and hoverboards. Even without the Transformers there's the
nation of Carbombia.
No One in Particular
"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dd1c3d9-f016-44bf...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
:
But mostly, if Transformers were created by humans, there would
doubtless be a big government conspiracy involved, and I just don't
like the government conspiracy stories.
They're OK in moderation. But moderation is not the order of the day in
television and movies in this day and age.
Gustavo Wombat
> I don't even understand *how* they managed to build Trypticon out of a
> human city while the residents were apparently still living there, so
> I'm not going to even get into the fact that he should be made of
> bricks and wood planks, not metal alloys.
Well, we also don't know how long it took. If after 16 years or so, a
giant robot climbed out of the Boston Big Dig, would anyone have been
all that surprised? They could have been doing anything for all those
years...
Gustavo!