[OT] G.I.Joe 2009: If not 1983-ish, then what?
Phillip Thorne
dreading the changes made by the film. I assume that's because,
unlike "Transformers," "Joe" hasn't gone through nearly as many
variant iterations on the archetypes, so we haven't been desensitized.
(To be fair, the 1980s toys were getting pretty darn weird by 1992,
and this movie looks a lot more coherent than Eco-Warriors,
Mega-Marines with goo, and Star Brigade.)
On TV there was the Marvel/Sunbow cartoon (1983-86), the DIC sequel,
"G.I.Joe Extreme" (1995), "Valor Vs. Venom" (CGI) and its sequel
"Sigma 6" (cel) (2005), and "Resolute" (2009). The most memorable was
the 1983 series, probably, and so we're comparing the 2009 movie to
it. But what if the screenwriters based the characters on some other
precedent?
(ObTF: In the two "Transformers" films, we can all recognize the bits
of lore that've been mismatched.)
So, I'm looking through _The Ultimate Guide to G.I.Joe 1982-1994,
Second Edition_ (Mark Bellomo, 2008) and I learn that one Larry Hama
was responsible for both the toy bios and the comic book (155 issues),
and that *his* conception of the characters didn't always match that
of the 1983 series.
For instance, Hama imagined that Anastasia "Baroness" Cobray was an
American student staying in Europe who got radicalized; the
distinctive accent was invented by the cartoon. And consider: Laird
James McCullen Destro XXIV was Scottish. Not obvious on TV, but very
obvious with Christopher Eccleston playing him.
Thoughts?
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Thunder Strikes Twice!
> (To be fair, the 1980s toys were getting pretty darn weird by 1992,
> and this movie looks a lot more coherent than Eco-Warriors,
What?! You're DISSING Eco-Warriors?! ;) (I'm kidding. It was a true low
point in the concept... but there have been many).
> On TV there was the Marvel/Sunbow cartoon (1983-86), the DIC sequel,
> "G.I.Joe Extreme" (1995), "Valor Vs. Venom" (CGI)
You forgot "Spy Troops". It was CGI and came before Valor vs. Venom.
Larry Hama wrote the script for it apparently.
> ...and I learn that one Larry Hama
> was responsible for both the toy bios and the comic book (155 issues),
> and that *his* conception of the characters didn't always match that
> of the 1983 series.
He started the comic before the cartoon, if I'm not mistaken and I
generally regard his ideas with higher esteem. The Marvel TF comic and
cartoon didn't always line up either, but who cares.
I think the new movie is some mesh of the best of both continuities--the
comic and cartoon alike.
I hope it's way better then ROTF was.
t.k.
Zobovor
> So, "G.I.Joe: The Rise of Cobra" opens tomorrow, and fans aplenty are
> dreading the changes made by the film. I assume that's because,
> unlike "Transformers," "Joe" hasn't gone through nearly as many
> variant iterations on the archetypes, so we haven't been desensitized.
Movie adaptations are never, ever completely faithful to the original
medium. Anyone expecting a carbon copy of the Sunbow cartoon or the
Marvel comic is going to be disappointed. (And then they'll decry the
movie as horrible just because it failed to live up to their
unrealistic expectations.) I'm not just saying this because I
probably don't have as much emotional investment in G.I. Joe as a lot
of people. I expected them to update the Transformers concept for a
modern day and age (just like they did with the TMNT movies, the
Spider-Man movies, et al.) so G.I. Joe should be no different.
When you stray too radically from the original premise, I think that's
when people can rightfully and legitimately get a little perturbed.
How much is too much? That probably depends on how long ago the
original story was conceived (radioactive spiders made sense in the
1960's but the concept doesn't carry the same weight today).
Everything I've seen and read about the G.I. Joe movie so far seems to
stay true to the original characters and basic concept. (I will say,
though, that while I don't consider myself a G.I. Joe fan, I am a fan
of Cobra Commander. His new appearance in the movies really, really
bothers me, but I think that's because I care about his character in
particular far more than the others. I kind of felt the same way
about Orko when the new He-Man toy line came out a few years back.)
Zob
Onslaught Six
> I kind of felt the same way
> about Orko when the new He-Man toy line came out a few years back.)
What was different about Orko?
Onslaught Six
> I hope it's way better then ROTF was.
Word on the street basically pins it down to, "It's a better Actual
Movie than ROTF was, but still similarly tears up the franchise's
specifics for its own purposes." For example, Cobra Commander, Duke
and Baroness's origins are all way different, and Snake Eyes isn't a
mute anymore because his voice box got blown out when he was saving
Scarlett. (He's still mute, but it's for entirely different reasons.)
I do like what all I've seen so far. It looks like it's just gonna be
a fun romp. I'm not so attached to the original stories that I can't
see things happening another way, like most Joe fans are, so I'm good.
Zobovor
>> I kind of felt the same way about Orko when the new He-Man
>> toy line came out a few years back.)
>
> What was different about Orko?
I'm not so much a He-Man fan as a fan of Orko, specifically, so the
changes to him bothered me more than the changes to the other
characters.
Zob
G.B. Blackrock
Isn't Eccleston Welsh?
G.B. Blackrock
G.B. Blackrock
Just got done looking some stuff up. Eccleston is English, not
Welsh. But not Scottish, either (although his Doctor Who successor
David Tennant is indeed Scottish).
G.B. Blackrock
Phillip Thorne
>I'm not so much a He-Man fan as a fan of Orko, specifically, so the
>changes to him bothered me more than the changes to the other
>characters.
You mean the 2002-04 Mike Young Productions reboot on Cartoon Network?
The one with an actual story arc, and with an intended older audience
than the original, hence Cringer didn't talk? (Whine, yes; talk, no.)
I've recently watched all 39 eps (1.5 seasons) and I don't recall any
Orko personality changes. Still a well-meaning goofball with erratic
magical powers, but now with a slightly fancier costume. I also
believe an older Orko travelled back in time to become the Oracle who
advised King Grayskull.
But there's a lot more of the 1983-85 series (130 eps), so I haven't
watched it all, and there might be some backstory I'm unaware of.
Of course, Orko didn't appear at all in 1993's "The New Adventures of
He-Man" -- and arguably, neither did anyone else from the original
series, no matter what the producers claim on the DVD commentary; what
with Skeletor acquiring the Joker's personality from B:TAS, and Adam's
power sword unaccountably gaining the powers of ray-gun,
disintegrator, and telekinetic whip.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He-Man_and_the_Masters_of_the_Universe>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Adventures_of_He-Man>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He-Man_and_the_Masters_of_the_Universe_(2002_TV_series)>
Phillip Thorne
>>> And consider: Laird James McCullen Destro XXIV was Scottish.
>>> Not obvious on TV, but very obvious with Christopher Eccleston
>>> playing him.
Coincidentally, one of the interns at my place celebrated the end of
his summer job by playing the bagpipes in the parking lot; the
performance was eminently audible four stories up and through sealed
window glass. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled sensible
universe.
On Aug 7, "G.B. Blackrock" <nicodemusleg...@gmail.com> wondered:
>> Isn't Eccleston Welsh?
Later on Fri, 7 Aug 2009, "G.B. Blackrock" <nicodem...@gmail.com>
corrected himself:
>Just got done looking some stuff up. Eccleston is English, not
>Welsh. But not Scottish, either (although his Doctor Who successor
>David Tennant is indeed Scottish).
Well, English with whatever regional accent Eccleston evinces in New
Who (and this movie) is more plausibly Scottish than Arthur
Burghardt's performance in 1983.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Eccleston>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Burghardt>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe:_A_Real_American_Hero_(1985_TV_series)>
Old Who, as I recall, was dominated by "RP," the "Received
Pronunciation" that Americans identify as typically British. Probably
due to the actor population used by BBC at the time. (Sometimes I
wish New Who and "Torchwood" came with subtitles.)
Phillip Thorne
>> (To be fair, the 1980s toys were getting pretty darn weird by 1992,
>> and this movie looks a lot more coherent than Eco-Warriors,
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009, "Thunder Strikes Twice!" <dece...@shaw.ca>
wrote:
>What?! You're DISSING Eco-Warriors?! ;) (I'm kidding. It was a true low
>point in the concept... but there have been many).
Okay, who wants to discuss the toy engineering? Hasbro probably had
separate design teams for Joe and TF, but there are certain gimmicks
and directions in common.
>> On TV there was the Marvel/Sunbow cartoon (1983-86),
Aha. Apparently this is known as the "Real American Hero" (RAH)
continuity. (G.I.Joe as written by Robert A. Heinlein? Hmmm.)
>> the DIC sequel, "G.I.Joe Extreme" (1995), "Valor Vs. Venom" (CGI)
>
>You forgot "Spy Troops". It was CGI and came before Valor vs. Venom.
>Larry Hama wrote the script for it apparently.
Um, the list was getting cumbersome. :) Hama? That's what Wikipedia
says, anyway. The article also claims the two CGI movies are
continuations of RAH, and -- Yikes, bad formatting.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe:_Spy_Troops>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hama>
But then the sequel was penned by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens,
frequent "Star Trek" novelists. (Also "Phantom 2040" and the 1996
"Flash Gordon" series.) *Their* names I remembered.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe:_Valor_vs._Venom>
This article agrees with my assessment that S6 continued VvV, but
raises the obvious point that ST may be compatible with RAH, but S6
isn't. Overlapping continuities, wheee.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe:_Sigma_6>
>[Hama] started the comic before the cartoon, if I'm not mistaken and I
>generally regard his ideas with higher esteem. The Marvel TF comic and
>cartoon didn't always line up either, but who cares.
I've read only a few issues of the comic, so I can't comment.
However, regardless of which sources or inspirations tRoC uses, the
pop culture perception is based on the 1983 RAH cartoon (consider the
parodies in "Robot Chicken") so I expect divergences from *that* will
set fans seething. (Quasi-fans? Reactivated semi-fans? What do you
call a fan who isn't aware of the full scope of a franchise?)
Thunder Strikes Twice!
> (Quasi-fans? Reactivated semi-fans? What do you
> call a fan who isn't aware of the full scope of a franchise?)
Putz? :)
t.k.
TigerMegatron
the animation was awful even for 1980's standards.
My favorite g.i joe character was ship wrecked.
I remember liking that particular G.I Joe cartoon episode. where a few
joes get shrunk down to mini size. the scene I liked was the ending
where lady J's legs got longer by accident by the increase size ray/
machine.
I suspose I also liked the marvel g.i joe comic issues 138-143 where a
few G.I Joe women are drawn so freaky sexy in the comics.
that's the one thing I miss about marvel doing transformer & G.I Joe
comics. was how freaking sexy they drew all spike's brothers girl
friends/other women.
With freaking IDW/DW all we get is skinny ass,no curvy ugly as fuck
grungy looking women in those TF DW/IDW comics.
Apparently someone at hasbro either is gay,hates women or hates
curvy,busty fat ass women.
It's plainly clear there not new yorkers.
retardomontalban
I am officially going to start calling you Buzz Killington.
Zobovor
> I've recently watched all 39 eps (1.5 seasons) and I don't recall any
> Orko personality changes. Still a well-meaning goofball with erratic
> magical powers, but now with a slightly fancier costume.
Superficially, he's more or less the same. The fact that I'm so
attached to the character means that I'm far less tolerant of any type
of changes to him—even minor costume tweaks. Bringing this full-
circle back to G.I. Joe, to me, Snake-Eyes is still a masked ninja who
wears black, and Destro is still the guy with the silver mask, but I'm
more particular about Cobra Commander's appearance since I like the
character so much—and the wholesale changes to his look are far, far
more bothersome to me.
> Of course, Orko didn't appear at all in 1993's "The New Adventures of
> He-Man" -- and arguably, neither did anyone else from the original
> series, no matter what the producers claim on the DVD commentary
Teela did make a guest appearance in one episode, and I think He-Man
was still able to communicate with the Sorceress. Doesn't that count?
> what with Skeletor acquiring the Joker's personality from B:TAS
Skeletor is what totally made that show. He was beyond awesome, due
in no small part to Campbell Lane's dynamic voice performance (ah,
finally we get to an ObTFs—this would be the same guy who would go on
to play Rampage on Beast Wars).
Zob
Zobovor
> However, regardless of which sources or inspirations tRoC uses, the
> pop culture perception is based on the 1983 RAH cartoon (consider the
> parodies in "Robot Chicken") so I expect divergences from *that* will
> set fans seething. (Quasi-fans? Reactivated semi-fans? What do you
> call a fan who isn't aware of the full scope of a franchise?)
Oscillating fans?
Zob
Onslaught Six
> Superficially, he's more or less the same. The fact that I'm so
> attached to the character means that I'm far less tolerant of any type
> of changes to him—even minor costume tweaks. Bringing this full-
> circle back to G.I. Joe, to me, Snake-Eyes is still a masked ninja who
> wears black, and Destro is still the guy with the silver mask, but I'm
> more particular about Cobra Commander's appearance since I like the
> character so much—and the wholesale changes to his look are far, far
> more bothersome to me.
The new look would be much more bearable if he still had the same old
helmet. But incidentally, CC himself went through a great many costume
changes back in the day--who can forget the armoured CC who was Fred
VII in the comics?
I had a point somewhere, but I got distracted thinking about burritos
and cheese fries. I should eat.
Onslaught Six
> (Sometimes I
> wish New Who and "Torchwood" came with subtitles.)
Don't they have closed captioning? It seems like that'd be odd, to not
have such a standard thing.
No One in Particular
"Phillip Thorne" <peth...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:algp751fco9ro7344...@4ax.com...
>>
> However, regardless of which sources or inspirations tRoC uses, the
> pop culture perception is based on the 1983 RAH cartoon (consider the
> parodies in "Robot Chicken") so I expect divergences from *that* will
> set fans seething. (Quasi-fans? Reactivated semi-fans? What do you
> call a fan who isn't aware of the full scope of a franchise?)
>
> --
> ** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
> * RPI CompSci 1998 *
> ** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Johnny-come-latelies? Someone who didn't bother to look up the franchise on
the internet either before or after the movie? Dare I say it-'Not a true
fan'?
Brian. Or someone who is a fan of a specific portion of the media, and just
doesn't care for the rest. It's all good...
tomorrow4eva
Casual fans. Not dedicated enough to memorize random trivia, but with
fond memories and a general attitude of positive support.
tomorrow4eva
Gabi TM D'Galvatron
***spoiler free section ***
OK , seen the film , loved about 90% of it .
I'm a fan of both the 80's cartoon and the 80's - 00's comics and I
have to say that apart from the changing the relationships of some of
the characters , the move just ... _felt_ like G.I.Joe ... but as to
what that means .. , well that can mean both good and bad .
It was at times serious , at times campy , and at times seriously
campy (thinking of the HURRAH scenes at the end here) .
But it was also soooo 80's... in a wonderously charming way -- for
example the "let's use giant drill machines to tunel under the base
and attack" !
Come on !!!
That was what the 80's animation was all about ! Well that and
helmets ... . :)
I just can't seem to loose this idea that this movie was an 80's
joygasm , for better or for worse , and being an 80's joygasm it just
felt a little out of place in the here and now .
(that didn't stop me from texting a friend 3 seats away with
"Cooobraaa !!!" in the middle of the movie tho ;) )
*** SPOILERS ***
Despite the lack of complexity that depicted the rivalry between Snake-
Eyes and Starm Shadow in this movie , I think that they managed to
pull a good ballance between cheesey and waaaay toooo loooong &
complicated (like it is in the comics) .
I liked this version a of their relationship lot more than in the
recent "Resolute" animated mini-movie .
The movie had the Perfect opening .
Instead of One More Flashback along the movie , they went with "let's
explain Destro's mask first" in a way that was much clearer than what
we got in the 80's cartoon .
This was the first clue that this was written by pepole who knew both
comic and cartoon , and to be honest , it was a great clue !
The only bad thing about the opening was that they left the whole
"mask" think alone for much of the movie afterward .
There are already "fan wars" on the subject of "what have they done to
the Baroness ?" .
I'm not going to go there .
There was a creative decision to make her something more that a pure
evil biotch from hell , and they ran with it as far as they could ,
within the limits of this story .
What I both like and don't like is that they left her story so damn
open ... , so she can still go either way , and I hope that she does
go both ways one more time . (if there is a next movie)
Destro .
I think that the actor chosen made the best of what he could with what
he had , but as to the character , well let's just say that this is
the most militant Destro I've seen ... , but all the same it's a re-
invention of the character that was needed .
Why was it needed ?
Well because , in G.I.Joe , it's Cobra Commander (or Serpentor) who
are the drivers of the story .
With "the Doctor" being so meek and obedient and with no need for a
fresh new villain , Destro was choosen to fulfill The Schemer's role .
To be honest , that is a bit out of character for him , but one can
ask the question : is it really out of character ?
For example , we know very little of Destro's life before we see him
in either comic or cartoon .
But if we go by his Devil's Due comic representation , there we meet
his illegitimate son Alexander , who shows up out of the blue (very
soap opera style) and to whom Destro attempts to act as a father .
Now this Alexander character is interesting because he does not
understand his father's preference to stay in the shadows "behind the
throne" and sees Destro as someone who is unwilling or unable to use
his vast veapons empire to reach out and take hold of "real" power .
One can ask , could this young Alexander be a mirror of who Destro
used to be when he was young ?
Could it be that when Destro was younger , he too sought direct
control of power ?
It also should be noted that in this movie , Destro does not actually
seek "real" power , but rather to be the hand behind the "puppet" of
the president of the US .
And this too is a very Joe-comic inspired idea , where Cobra had a lot
of political support both within the US and arround the world ,
because in the comic Cobra is both a terrorist and a political
movement .
Zartan - not as much fun without his 3 fall guys (huey louie and
dewey) , but essentially a walking plot device .
Was he ever more in the cartoon ?
Last but not least : Cobra Commander .
Oy .
Well , I'll say that in the campy spirit of things , his story works .
I didn't like it , but he's neither the disgrunted used car salesman
from the comics , nor a creature of Cobra-La .
The "got whacked on the head and presto : evil scientist " rutine
is ... mundane , but I just hope he'll get his due in the next film
(if there is one) .
The rest of the Joes ... , well they were Joes .
Sadly not a Shipwreck among them .. , altho Ripcord did well enough in
the comedy department .
As to the All Black Costumes -- would the Village Pepole look of the
cartoon serve some oter purpose then to steady our nostalgia driven
nerves ?
Sooo , in the end we had :
Outladnish vehicles - check !
Outlandish plot (but at least a plot one can follow)- check !
Outlandich characters - check !
Outlandish weapons - check !
Ninjas - check !
Helmets - check !
Yo Joe ! + Knowing is half the battle ! - double check !
Smells like a Joe movie allright !
Kudos to the writers and director for a cheesey-but-fun ride .
Damn I wish they'd make the next TF movie .
Not_Available321
wrote:
>
> Despite the lack of complexity that depicted the rivalry between Snake-
> Eyes and Starm Shadow in this movie , I think that they managed to
> pull a good ballance between cheesey and waaaay toooo loooong &
> complicated (like it is in the comics) .
> I liked this version a of their relationship lot more than in the
> recent "Resolute" animated mini-movie .
I preferred the 'Resolute' origin.
How was the movie version complicated? Storm Shadow killed his Master
because he lost one little swordfight (out of three matches!) against
Snake Eyes when they were kids? Cheesy, yes. Long and complicated,
no. And the final showdown in Resolute was so much more satisfying
than the movie's.
Trolly McBeam
ShadowWing
"Not_Available321" wrote
>
>I preferred the 'Resolute' origin.
>
>How was the movie version complicated? Storm Shadow killed his Master
>because he lost one little swordfight (out of three matches!) against
>Snake Eyes when they were kids? Cheesy, yes. Long and complicated,
>no. And the final showdown in Resolute was so much more satisfying
>than the movie's.
I haven't seen the movie (and don't plan to, at least in theaters), but
while the Resolute origin worked for me, the finale didn't. Mostly because
of all the other classic character demises, but also because this is one of
the biggest feuds in fiction, and having it end when the Joe multiverse
continues on doesn't feel right somehow.
Not_Available321
wrote:
>
> I haven't seen the movie (and don't plan to, at least in theaters), but
> while the Resolute origin worked for me, the finale didn't. Mostly because
> of all the other classic character demises, but also because this is one of
> the biggest feuds in fiction, and having it end when the Joe multiverse
> continues on doesn't feel right somehow.
[Spoiler]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Well, you probably wouldn't like the movie ending either. SS falls to
his death in the polar ice cap after getting impaled by SE. And then
SE whispers a solid 'grunt' or a "Hmph!", depending on who you ask, as
he solemnly mourns his death for a brief second.
CC (Destro, too) doesn't even don his cruddy mask until the very end,
for a brief two seconds.
Overall, pretty disappointing.
Trolly McBeam
Zobovor
don't want them to SPOIL you.]
On Aug 14, 5:13 pm, Not_Available321 <not_available...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 14, 10:29 am, "ShadowWing" <the_...@SPAMBLOCKADEsnet.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I haven't seen the movie (and don't plan to, at least in theaters), but
> > while the Resolute origin worked for me, the finale didn't. Mostly because
> > of all the other classic character demises, but also because this is one of
> > the biggest feuds in fiction, and having it end when the Joe multiverse
> > continues on doesn't feel right somehow.
>
> [Spoiler]
>
>
>
> Well, you probably wouldn't like the movie ending either. SS falls to
> his death in the polar ice cap after getting impaled by SE. And then
> SE whispers a solid 'grunt' or a "Hmph!", depending on who you ask, as
> he solemnly mourns his death for a brief second.
I got the impression he was just catching his breath. Whatever noise
he made, it was barely audible (and this was in a theater where the
volume was cranked up to about 17 on a one-to-ten scale) and it seemed
like more of a sigh. Expelling air from the lungs, not through the
larynx. Not that this is really the most vital part of the movie, but
I guess it's pretty damn significant when a mute character says
*anything.*
> CC (Destro, too) doesn't even don his cruddy mask until the very end,
> for a brief two seconds. Overall, pretty disappointing.
Yes, but now they've got everything set up for the sequel, so the next
movie can *start* with Cobra Commander fully masked and Destro with a
metal face, and we don't have to ask for an explanation because we
already got one. It works badly as a stand-alone movie but you know
there's going to be one or two more, so it will make sense when viewed
as a trilogy.
And, dude. Accellerator suits. Best sequence in a movie ever.
Zob
Thunder Strikes Twice!
> Let's Talk Joe Movie !
Okay! :)
> *** SPOILERS ***
>
>
> Despite the lack of complexity that depicted the rivalry between Snake-
> Eyes and Starm Shadow in this movie , I think that they managed to
> pull a good ballance between cheesey and waaaay toooo loooong &
> complicated (like it is in the comics) .
It wasn't bad, if a little simplistic. I don't think Storm Shadow is
really dead, though.
> The movie had the Perfect opening .
> Instead of One More Flashback along the movie , they went with "let's
> explain Destro's mask first"
I felt they should've cut that part. It wasn't terribly important to the
overall movie (Destro's later explanation to Baroness and SS works well
enough and doesn't leave much for the audience to question).
> There was a creative decision to make her something more that a pure
> evil biotch from hell , and they ran with it as far as they could ,
> within the limits of this story .
It was different but worked well in context of the movie's story.
> Destro .
> I think that the actor chosen made the best of what he could with what
> he had , but as to the character , well let's just say that this is
> the most militant Destro I've seen ...
But he's an arms dealer, so shouldn't he be militant? On the flip side,
why was he more in command of things until the end when CC seemed to
start taking charge?
> Zartan - not as much fun without his 3 fall guys (huey louie and
> dewey) , but essentially a walking plot device .
> Was he ever more in the cartoon ?
Give me comic Zartan any day! :)
>
>
> Last but not least : Cobra Commander .
> Oy .
> Well , I'll say that in the campy spirit of things , his story works .
> I didn't like it
Me neither. But... yeah, I guess it works.
I think I liked it overall. Was it perfect? No. Was it better then the
TF movies? Hell, yes.
t.k.
Gabi TM D'Galvatron
wrote:
> > I liked this version a of their relationship lot more than in the
> > recent "Resolute" animated mini-movie .
>
> I preferred the 'Resolute' origin.
To be honest , I found Storm Shadow's motivation in 'Resolute' to be
nothing short of petty .
But that needs to be put into proportion .
In the 80's Joe cartoon (the first 2 seasons anyway) , SE and SS have
nothing in common and in fact never face off once , so like the
Dinobots VS Devastator , we never get a chance to see who is a better
fighter .
They are just cool all on their own .
The 80's comics has a grand saga about the Ninja Clan SS belonged to
and how he saved SE in Nam and later adopted SE into the clan/family
where (like in the movie) SE became the "favorite student" .
There is also a murder of one of the Ninja masters for which SS is
blamed .
The Joe comics in 2000 revisit this saga aplenty and add some layers
to this saga , but both comic sagas feature a SS that was in the end
framed and who joined Cobra to get info about the real killer of the
Ninja Master .
Sure , it sounds like a soap opera , but so what ?!?
Just how many soap's feature ninjas on a regular basis ? :)
> How was the movie version complicated? Storm Shadow killed his Master
> because he lost one little swordfight (out of three matches!) against
> Snake Eyes when they were kids? Cheesy, yes. Long and complicated,
> no.
It depends .
The 2007 TF Movie novel added some layers to Prime and Megs that were
not in the '07 movie .
It mentions that Prime and Megs were "brothers" in a sense .
The 2009 Joe movie adaptation novel also has some tidbits that are not
in the movie .
I'd like to stress that I did not read the Joe novel , but I did go
through a thread on Hisstank.com that went on just about this topic .
Here are two qoutes from that thread :
J4Joker wrote :
> I don't know about anyone else, but it was pretty clear that while Snake-Eyes blamed him for Hard Master's murder, there was certainly no hard core evidence. Take into account the line from the novel "You have to live a lie to find the truth." and it seems that Storm Shadow was tracking down HM murderer in his own fashion. <
MaxGoof wrote :
> Where the hell was Storm Shadow's line from the novel, though, telling Snake-Eyes that he wasn't the one who killed their master!
The movie made it out like Storm Shadow is just some conceited jackass
who killed his master and deserved to die! <
Here's the thread link :
> And the final showdown in Resolute was so much more satisfying
> than the movie's.
Sorry but again , not being told some "ultimate ninja trick" and thus
killing the one Master who actually knew the trick ?!?
As I said before .
Petty .
Gabi TM D'Galvatron
> I haven't seen the movie (and don't plan to, at least in theaters
I don't wanna say "you should" , but well ... , you should .
Apart from this movie , nothing short of a new Mortal Combat or
Ghostbusters movie will draw you back straight into the 80's style .
With plenty of cheese on top , bottom and all layers inbetween . :)
By the by ... , two really fun Joe clips :
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/076041c13b/the-ballad-of-g-i-joe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NdLKjLd9Vc
Not_Available321
wrote:
> In the 80's Joe cartoon (the first 2 seasons anyway) , SE and SS have
> nothing in common and in fact never face off once , so like the
> Dinobots VS Devastator , we never get a chance to see who is a better
> fighter .
The Dinobots fought Devastator in the original TF movie, and Dev won!
> The 80's comics has a grand saga about the Ninja Clan SS belonged to
> and how he saved SE in Nam and later adopted SE into the clan/family
> where (like in the movie) SE became the "favorite student" .
> There is also a murder of one of the Ninja masters for which SS is
> blamed .
I like this origin, having never read the comics though.
> The 2009 Joe movie adaptation novel also has some tidbits that are not
> in the movie .
> I'd like to stress that I did not read the Joe novel , but I did go
> through a thread on Hisstank.com that went on just about this topic .
"If it aint in the movie, it don't count." And I don't read novels of
movie adaptations, when the movie is the official canon in the movie
universe. I can only imagine novels of movie adaptations are just as
bad as movie adaptations of novels (heh).
> The movie made it out like Storm Shadow is just some conceited jackass
> who killed his master and deserved to die! <
And for all intents and purposes he did, until a sequel establishes
otherwise.
> Sorry but again , not being told some "ultimate ninja trick" and thus
> killing the one Master who actually knew the trick ?!?
> As I said before .
> Petty .
And SS killed the Baroness's husband because he touched her. That's
petty.
Trolly McBeam
ShadowWing
"Gabi TM D'Galvatron"
>I don't wanna say "you should" , but well ... , you should .
>Apart from this movie , nothing short of a new Mortal Combat or
>Ghostbusters movie will draw you back straight into the 80's style .
>With plenty of cheese on top , bottom and all layers inbetween . :)
I was never really into G.I. Joe, though, so I'm not really drawn to
seeing it.
>By the by ... , two really fun Joe clips :
>http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/076041c13b/the-ballad-of-g-i-joe
An awesome job, from the music to the costumes to the casting. Sgt.
Slaughter, people. SGT. FRICKIN' SLAUGHTER!
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NdLKjLd9Vc
I went to a local convention a few weeks ago, and they had events like
this as well. Nothing Joe or Transformers related, but the Joker puts on a
pretty good show when he isn't gassing people.