Who are your favorite post-G1 character archetypes?
Gustavo Wombat
One after another. How many more Optimus Primes or Starscreams can we
really find fresh and interesting?
There has been a bit of new, however, here and there. Some of the new
characters have been forgettable, much like the entire Armada/Energon/
Cybertron trilogy, but there have been a few standout new characters
and character archetypes that have allowed stories that just wouldn't
fit in G1.
Here are a few of my favorites, what are yours?
MOVIE BARRICADE: This is perhaps the simplest of the modern characters
added to the Transformers franchise, as he is just the bad cop. We
really don't know much about what makes him tick, about his
motivations or beliefs. But, he is incredibly effective as he really
captures the uneasy feeling we have with law enforcement -- most of
them are good, hardworking, honest public servants, and a few are
completely out of control, violent, and filled with rage. And you
don't know which one you're dealing with until it is too late.
We've had lots of police cars and fire engines, and other heroic type
public servants in Transformers before, and G1 Prowl is a bit of a
dick, but Barricade is the first significant one that is genuinely
evil.
BW OPTIMUS PRIMAL: It's easy to write him off as just a variation on
Optimus Prime, with the name, and the head, but he's something quite
different. He's not the grand leader of all the Autobots (or
Maximals), he doesn't implicitly command the respect of everyone
reporting to him, he's a young commander thrust into a situation where
he is a bit over his head, with the resolve to do what he has to do,
and the confidence to shape a band of non-soldiers into a fighting
force.
He has the potential to eventually become an instance of the Optimus
Prime archetype, but he's not there yet. He might also become some
kind of religious nut.
There are a few elements of G1 Silverbolt in him, but his weaknesses
are less obvious and less contrived than a fear of heights. And he was
dramatically more defined.
Animated Optimus Prime follows the BW Optimus Primal archetype pretty
closely. This is really one of the few new characterizations that has
been applied to multiple characters, and is becoming a part of the
Transformers franchise.
TARANTULAS: Amoral, disloyal, knows far more about what is going on
than anyone else, and operates to further his own agenda (which is
more than just self-serving). And a secret agent to boot.
I don't think we've had any characters since then that have come close
to this archetype -- Armada Sideways and Energon Alpha-Q might have
been attempts to try to do this again, but they never managed to.
ANIMATED LUGNUT: He's driven by personal loyalty, and he's a
Decepticon. He's not without his personality flaws (he's a bit dim,
and he is clearly subject to hero worship), but he shows how the
Decepticons could be a force to be reckoned with, rather than just a
bunch of infighting, backstabbing weasels who are their own worst
enemies.
To an extent, BW Skorponok had a very similar role, but more subtly
played, and of course BW Inferno, who was much less subtly played.
ANIMATED BUMBLEBEE: Utterly self-absorbed, horrible person. He doesn't
grow, he doesn't accept responsibility for his actions, he's arrogant,
and mean, and cowardly and yet presented as if we should like him.
He's definitely related to Armada Hot Shot, but Hot Shot is ultimately
an immature hero, with a rough, brash exterior and a heart of gold.
Hot Shot learns, and grows, and improves himself. Bumblebee does none
of that.
Bumblebee barely recognizes that he is horrible, just enough to muddle
through the motions of learning lessons in a couple of potentially
pivotal episodes, but he never actually pivots. Bumblebee just assumes
that he is a good 'bot, and no one ever tells him otherwise. Bumblebee
is shockingly realistic in that respect -- so often people don't
change.
And this isn't just that the status quo is restored at the end of
every episode. Every Autobot other than Bumblebee has a character arc
where they change and grow, so Bumblebee's complete lack of growth is
a stark contrast.
Also, he is nothing at all like G1 Bumblebee, except in name, color
and alt-mode.
I'm a bit surprised that RID didn't really make much of an impression
on me. It was fun, but it didn't really sink in. Sky-Byte was
excellent.
Gustavo!
TigerMegatron
TF toy molds.
There's litterally thousands of TF characters that desperately need
updated new mold homage toy molds.
Those obsecure TF characters from G-1 can literally function as new
characters because not that many know who they are. why create a new
character+toy when you could please the 10% of the fandom with updated
homage new molds. the 90% who don't recogonize the obsecure character
will simply think it's a brand new character+mold.
With any given new TF cartoon series,there's always certain key
character roles to fill on both factions,plot line & so forth.
Examples if there's a need for a back stabbing autobot spy
doubledealer or punch/counter punch can easily fill those roles.
instead of creating globtron the new autobot spy character.
If there's a need for a few animal/bots on each faction in the new
transformers cartoon series. I'd prefer they use some obsecure G-1
characters like as follows:
Deathsauras,Victoryleo,apeface,snapdragon,predacons,dinobots,cassettebots
that turn into animals & so forth.
Why create 8 new beast/bot characters in a new TF cartoon series. when
you could please the 10% of the TF fandom with obsecure G-1 updatted
homages. the other 90% who don't recogonize the 8 obsecure G-1
characters,will simply think there new mold characters.
ahsan.sa...@gmail.com
idea of a Decepticon becoming a police-car... especially a Ford
Mustang (or is it a Cobra? same difference).
Comics are allowed, yeah?
BW DINOBOT springs to mind. I think it was the first time in cartoons
that a "bad guy" changes sides (I had to ninja-edit, because I'd
almost forgotten about CATILLA and CARNIVAC from the Marvel G1
comics). We got to see the Predacon concept of honour in action, and
got to witness one of the better on-screen deaths of a character in
quite some time.
BW DEPTH CHARGE character was somewhat inspired by G1 cartoon OMEGA
SUPREME's thing with the Constructicons, but rather than keeping it a
once-in-a-while-when-we-remember-to deal, it was a consistent flaw in
the character, with the gruffness, and the meanness and the lone wolf
thing-ness.
SteveD
<Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>MOVIE BARRICADE:
I guess. G1 Hyperdrive is about the closest match, but Barricade might be
the first Decepticon to have an altmode that a human would turn to in an
emergency. Then again, G1 Grimlock is *supposed* to be vaguely allied to
humans but would scare the spit out of them with his force of personality,
so perhaps there are parallels there.
>BW OPTIMUS PRIMAL:
Rodimus Prime?
>TARANTULAS:
Shades of Starscream, although Tarantulas was more active, sneakier, and
had goals outside his own faction. Darker and more secretive than Swindle,
too.
>ANIMATED LUGNUT:
Cyclonus?
>ANIMATED BUMBLEBEE:
G1 Hubcap? Although Hubcap's deliberately, intelligently untrustworthy,
while AniBee's just a jerk.
Part of Bee's personality is that unless he's allowed to do something he
thinks is fun, he seems to view any situation he's ordered into (including
actually doing his job) as a personal imposition on his time. He really
would totally prefer to sit around on the couch, play video games, hang
out, and go racing, and everyone else can lump it. He'll disobey orders
when he feels like it, get distracted by anything which isn't work, and
seems to consider the Decepticons merely an irritation unless they're
actively trying to kill him at any given moment.
It makes me wonder if he really did have a stronger sense of duty when he
was trying to get into the Elite Guard, or whether he just thought it
would be really cool to be able to say he was part of it.
He's really more like a toned-down Battlecharger, although he's not
_actively_ malicious, just lazy and self-absorbed.
He'd probably be really shocked to be told that he's a Class A jerk. He's
friendly to everyone! How is that jerk-y?
It's easy to see how Sari and Bee meshed most of the time. Sari's another
one who has a strong personality, a notable streak of laziness and not
thinking things through, is not entirely in tune with the rest of the
world, and can be casually cruel and insensitive without really meaning
to. She did have a sensitive side at times, though, and when she needed
comforting Bee was pretty terrible at it. I'd like to think that she
eventually outgrew him as she got older.
-SteveD
Phillip Thorne
>Gustavo,I find it foolish to create new TF characters who become new
>TF toy molds.
Uh, you completely missed the point, Deathy. Gustavo was talking
about character*izations*, to which the toys are irrelevant. Their
onscreen visual appearances are mostly irrelevant -- e.g.,
ANI-Bumblebee has the name and color scheme of the G1 character, but a
completely different personality.
The character variations in the comics don't get molds. (Usually.)
>Those obsecure TF characters from G-1 can literally function as new
>characters because not that many know who they are.
This would be true if personalities had been established for them.
This may have happened in the comic(s), but less often on TV -- there
were so many toys to promote that they didn't get much screen time,
except for the occasional focus episode.
Here are some archetypes established in G1 that AFAIK haven't been
reused:
Grapple -- Dedicated architect, frustrated that the war has
interrupted his projects, so eager to resume that he'll take
assistance from anyone (the Constructicons), even if it's too good to
be true.
Cerebros -- Pacifist, in despair when he literally becomes part of the
war machine (Fortress Maximus; "Deactivate me, Spike -- please!").
>why create a new character+toy when you could please the 10% of
>the fandom with updated homage new molds.
True, but not Gustavo's thesis.
>Examples if there's a need for a back stabbing autobot spy
>doubledealer or punch/counter punch can easily fill those roles.
>instead of creating globtron the new autobot spy character.
Except he *would be* a new character, even if he shared a name. IRL,
there are lots of guys named John Smith, but they all have different
personal histories. The "Optimus Prime" from G1, RID, and A/E/C
shared a name and many personality traits (i.e., a "character
archetype"), but were not the same guy.
Hasbro reuses names for (a) trademark protection, (b) market
recognition, and (c) because names that sound appropriate for alien
vehicle-robots don't exactly grow on trees.
As far as *toy* marketing goes, *Hasbro* doesn't much care if the 20
different toys labeled "Optimus Prime" are the same guy with a
facelift, trans-universal parallels, or the sons of George Foreman.
They just want kids and parents to say "I want the red and blue truck
called 'Optimus'."
Now, there *is* the role of the surrounding fictional matrix (the
comics-inspired marketing technique Hasbro pioneered with
G.I.Joe:ARAH) which transcended Diaclone and turned a minority of
buyers into loyal repeat-buyers and unpaid brand evangelists. But
that matrix has mutated in so many inconsistent ways that, again,
Hasbro only cares about what's *adequate* for the *near future*. It's
up to the writers and audience to rationalize each cast of characters.
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Optim_1
it was a shame that he was written out so soon.
Other than him, Barricade and BW Rattrap are my favourite post-G1
characters. I don't like BM Rattrap.
Gustavo Wombat
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:11:54 -0800 (PST), Gustavo Wombat
>
> >MOVIE BARRICADE:
>
> I guess. G1 Hyperdrive is about the closest match
I don't think we have enough information about Barricade to really
have any sense of whether he just likes being mean, or whether he is a
patriot to the Decepticon cause, a conflicted warrior who over-
compensates to hide his inner turmoil, or what.
> >BW OPTIMUS PRIMAL:
>
> Rodimus Prime?
I really don't think they are close at all, aside from being young
leaders.
Optimus Primal (and Animated Optimus Prime, as they are cut from the
same cloth), both wanted positions of authority and sought them out.
But, they hadn't yet earned the respect or loyalty of their followers.
Hot Rod desperately did not want any authority over anyone other than
himself. Everyone instantly respected his authority, far more than he
respected it himself (perhaps the effect of the Matrix of
Leadership...), and as soon as he had the opportunity he cast it
aside. Yes, he did seem to grudgingly accept the position in "The
Burden Hardest to Bare", but the first thing he did upon seeing Zombie
Prime in "Dark Awakening" was hand him the Matrix.
The team leaders in G1 are probably the closest matches. Even Young G1
Optimus Prime was never shown to go through this period, as all of his
personality growth was inflicted upon him by Alpha Trion rebuilding
him. We never saw a Young G1 Comics Optimus Prime, did we?
> >TARANTULAS:
>
> Shades of Starscream, although Tarantulas was more active, sneakier, and
> had goals outside his own faction. Darker and more secretive than Swindle,
> too.
Starscream was cowardly, and motivated by nothing more than his desire
for personal advancement.
> >ANIMATED LUGNUT:
>
> Cyclonus?
I don't think that Cyclonus ever had any elements of hero worship in
his makeup, in any portrayal. He saw Galvatron's weaknesses and
problems, and tried to hold him in line because he thought that
Galvatron was the best hope for the Decepticons.
I honestly cannot think of a single G1 Decepticon that was motivated
by actually liking Megatron or Galvatron.
Gustavo!
Thunder Strikes Twice!
> We never saw a Young G1 Comics Optimus Prime, did we?
Technically, yes. The first part of the whole Boltax/Underbase story had
him as a young Autobot named Optimus Prime and his actions caused the
Underbase to be sent to space (which later came back to haunt him).
Going from memory here, he wasn't respected by the other Autobots in
this story (the Triggerbots, I think) but it's not clear if he's Supreme
Commander of the Autobots or not either. According to TFarchive.com he's
referred to as "Lieutenant Commander of the Fourth Autobot Computerised
Division" (Issue #48 of the original Marvel Comic, by the way). Keep in
mind, this was Budiansky and he didn't necessary follow the whole
cartoon idea that every leader was a Prime and Matrix holder, a thing we
all sort of adapted later on and people like Furman respected.
t.k.
No One in Particular
"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:df0e3321-c992-45b0...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Gustavo!
Soundwave, *maybe*. He certainly seemed more loyal than the others G1
'Cons, but we never really did know why. For a fan favorite, character
backstory on Soundwave is remarkably thin.
Brian. Cartoon Soundwave, of course...
Onslaught Six
> I'm a bit surprised that RID didn't really make much of an impression
> on me. It was fun, but it didn't really sink in. Sky-Byte was
> excellent.
I so wish Animated had added in Sky-Byte.
Onslaught Six
> I honestly cannot think of a single G1 Decepticon that was motivated
> by actually liking Megatron or Galvatron.
Skywarp. Skywarp sees Megatron as the ideal--he *is* the Decepticons,
and he's everything Skywarp would like to be when he grows up.
See because Skywarp is the youngest, and Thundy is the middle one, and
Screamer is the oldest.
Thunder Strikes Twice!
> I so wish Animated had added in Sky-Byte.
Maybe they could've done that in season 4... (why not? :)
t.k.
Zobovor
> Here are a few of my favorites, what are yours?
I think Deathy's right in that there are so many hundreds of underused
Transformers characters out there. Granted, about a third of them are
Micromasters, not many of which got their own personality write-ups,
but still. I think that just about every "new" character that's been
invented since 1990 is really a reinvented G1 character (or several of
them pieced together). There are exceptions, of course, but they're
rare.
This is why I generally dislike fan characters so much. "My character
is working with the Autobots but he's really a cold-blooded killer!"
Uh, so he's Sunstreaker, basically? Why invent a character that
nobody's heard of before when you could use an established character
who already has a fan following? (Yes, there's a fan character who
plays a central role in my story "Children of Cybertron," but there
weren't really any existing characters who fit the female-Decepticon-
scientist-from-another-Cybertron archetype. Besides, here's a secret—
she may not be a fan character after all.)
Anyway, here are my favorites.
Sky-Byte. He's so complex that I find myself at a loss to succinctly
characterize him. He's not just a bumbling buffoon—he's a bumbling
buffoon who's very sophisticated and takes himself very seriously. He
knows he's constantly failing but he aspires to much greater things—
not quite as high as a leadership role, of course, because he's far
too modest for that. More than anything else, he just wants to be
liked and respected. It's this combination of traits that makes him
one of the most entertaining characters ever written. There has never
been a character quite like this in Transformers and it seems unlikely
we'll ever get anything like him again. (The Robots in Disguise
version of Ultra Magnus was also interesting to me, though I guess he
was basically just an Autobot version of Starscream. I also liked T-
AI. Is there a "panicky drum major" archetype?)
Dinobot. 'Nuff said.
I also really like Tarantulas. Strip down the layers and he's
basically a mad scientist, which makes him similar to an evil
Wheeljack (Carjack!), but again, it's the layers that make him
interesting. He's an insane cackling genius self-serving double
agent. That is so cool. (I am so glad they killed him in Beast Wars
so they couldn't ruin him in Beast Machines.) Blackarachnia is also
pretty cool—female characters are a rarity in the Transformers
universe anyway, but most of them are just window dressing.
Blackarachnia was the classic femme fatale, which might not be all
that original, but it was a novelty in a world of all-male alien
robots.
The Diagnostic Drone has always been a favorite character of mine.
He's the butler with a dry sense of humor—a common archetype in other
fiction (Alfred Pennyworth, Mr. Belvedere, et al.) but a novelty in
Transformers. We see lots of second-in-command characters who act as
the right-hand man to the boss, but the Diagnostic Drone wasn't part
of the command structure; he was the tireless servant.
I guess movie Barricade gets a sympathy vote. He's by far the most
interesting character in the movie continuity, but to be perfectly
blunt, that's not saying a whole lot. Stacked up against my other
favorites, he simply doesn't compare. I found Frenzy and Wheelie to
be more entertaining.
Zob
Zobovor
> I honestly cannot think of a single G1 Decepticon that was motivated
> by actually liking Megatron or Galvatron.
Really? As far as liking Megatron, I'd say Soundwave, for sure.
Rumble, certainly. Scrapper and Scavenger, very probably. I'd even
venture that Starscream liked Megatron on a personal level despite his
utter disdain for Megatron's leadership tactics. (They weren't
constantly at each other's throats. They were friendly enough towards
one another as long as Megatron wasn't making a command decision that
Starscream felt like questioning.)
Regarding Galvatron...well, Cyclonus, definitely. You got him partly
right—that he knew Galvatron was the glue that held the Decepticons
together. He also genuinely cared for him—witness how emotionally
distraught he was when he thought Galvatron's mind was being destroyed
by the Torkulon therapists. I think Predaking liked Galvatron, too,
but that relationship seemed to be more akin to a dog and his beloved
master. The problem with Galvatron is that he showed so little
respect for his troops that not many of them cared to befriend him.
Besides, there was a clear dichotomy between the elite guard and the
gunfodder, so the only Decepticons that Galvatron even considered to
be on his own level were Cyclonus and Scourge.
Zob
TigerMegatron
"what are my favorite new TF characters that are not alternate
universe G-1 characters?"
(1) Armada Tidalwave definatelly made a huge impact for me. the
character had a few episodes in armada announcing his comming then the
big battle fight.
(2) TF 1/2007 movie blackout. the guy looked so powerful & terminator
style walking thru the war field. just when you thought he got killed
off in a scene. you'd see him minutes later still fighting like
nothing happened.
(3) TF2/ROTF movie sara the pretender. this girl was so damn sexy &
hot in this TF movie. seeing her in those tight cotton panties on that
bed. was leaps & bounds sexier than anything megan fox did in both TF
movies. I also liked the sara persona as she was clever & ruthless yet
femine sexy all in one cute package.
(4)TF1/2007 movie barricade, seeing a evil cop/bot. pretty much is a
nod towards all bad cop movies.
(5)Magmatron from beastwars neo cartoon. kinda refreshing to see a non-
megatron leader of the decepticons. the fact that he had his own dino-
cons made him even cooler.
(6) Armada Sideways. perhaps the best double spy ever in a TF cartoon
series. I would have preferred that the bigger robot was being
controlled as a slave by both minicons. depending on which headmaster
took over his body,he'd be good or bad. I'd enviosion that there a
shell program virus in each headmaster minicon that made one good &
the other bad. uincron would put a virus in one,while primus would put
a virus in the other to control the headmaster minicons.
when both headmasters combine to form the 2 in 1 rider robot,I'd
envision both evil+good persona's would merge to form a nuetral
persona.
(7) BW Tigertron,the way he chose to live free & not live in the base.
then he fell in love with airrazor. then he returned super powerful as
tigerhawk & kicked ass on both sides. very 3-d persona.
(8)Dinobot,couldn't imagine liking beastwars without dinobot. the
character had a definate star trek kling-on persona with his honor.
yet he was a tortured soul always deciding between doing good or bad.
(9)Blackarachnia,perhaps the sexiest female character drawn & sexy
persona in any TF cartoon series. a evil women with a inner goodness
that ultimately turned her good.
(10) Bulkhead in the Animated cartoon series. the guy was funny even
when he wasn't trying to be funny. a really great persona.
Onslaught Six
> (3) TF2/ROTF movie sara the pretender. this girl was so damn sexy &
> hot in this TF movie. seeing her in those tight cotton panties on that
> bed. was leaps & bounds sexier than anything megan fox did in both TF
> movies. I also liked the sara persona as she was clever & ruthless yet
> femine sexy all in one cute package.
You go on and on about how allegedly sexy she is (which I really don't
agree with--skanky bitches turn me off) and yet you couldn't even
remember her name.
Gustavo Wombat
He wasn't looking at her name tag.
Gustavo!
Velvet Glove
> hot in this TF movie. seeing her in those tight cotton panties on that
> bed. was leaps & bounds sexier than anything megan fox did in both TF
> movies. I also liked the sara persona as she was clever & ruthless yet
> femine sexy all in one cute package.
Sorry, that noise is just me pounding my head against the glass
ceiling of feminism.
Velvet Glove (this sort of thing is why I have an immense soft spot
for Judy Witwicky)