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G.I. Joe Music in Transformers? OR IS IT?! (Dun dun DUN!)
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Zobovor
Mar 31, 2015, 6:33:52 PM3/31/15
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Okay, so we all know that Transformers and G.I. Joe had a number of shared musical background themes. The music in both shows was composed by the same guys, both shows were Marvel Productions, so it made sense for them to share resources.
I always had sort of a vague idea of which themes were reused, and approximately when it started, but now that I've been digging through both shows to build clean sound files for the virtual soundtrack, several interesting things have availed themselves to me.
For one, it wasn't until the beginning of the 1985 television season that the shared music came into play. This was the second season of Transformers and the third year for G.I. Joe (episodes 1-5 aired in 1983; episodes 6-11 aired in 1984; the new music began with the 1985 episodes, but for some reason numerous online resources lump all three years together as "season one"). For some reason I had always thought that somebody had taken all the G.I. Joe music that did not specifically sound like it belonged on that show (i.e., nothing with the "Real American Hero" melody) and borrowed it for Transformers. Turns out this isn't the case at all. (There do seem to be two instances of a very G.I. Joe-centric theme showing up in Transformers. One of them was the "wrong" commercial bumper theme in "The Insecticon Syndrome," which was likely included accidentally, or perhaps as a joke. The other is the military drum beat we hear during the rocket base speech in "Autobot Spike," which I think would have continued with a familiar G.I. Joe melody if it had been allowed to continue for more than a few seconds.)
Most of the new music made its debut on G.I. Joe in September 1985, but it would show up in Transformers that same month. The television season for G.I. Joe only began one week before Transformers did that year (September 16th for G.I. Joe; September 23rd for Transformers) so it's really only "G.I. Joe music" by merit of beating Transformers by seven days. All of these episodes were being written, recorded, and animated concurrently. It would be one thing if Transformers didn't start using the new themes until many weeks or months down the road. If the scheduling had been tweaked just slightly, it could easily have gone the other way around.
So, it's clear to me now that Sunbow likely requested a shared library of music from the start, one which was always intended to be used for both shows. There are at least three dozen shared themes; very little of the music introduced in Transformers season two was unique to that series. (Oddly, G.I. Joe also borrows some music from Transformers season one.)
Then of course there's the matter of G.I. Joe: the Movie, which uses older music from the television series but also a slew of newer themes that were also used in Transformers season three. I always tend to think that the music was written for G.I. Joe and appropriated for Transformers, but I don't really have any proof of this. Actually, the third season of Transformers started using the new music in October 1986 and G.I. Joe: the Movie wasn't released to home video until April 1987 (it was never in theaters), so if anything, it's "really" Transformers music that was used for G.I. Joe. I feel very strongly that the new music was composed for G.I. Joe: the Movie first, though, especially considering there are a lot of themes heard exclusively in the movie that were never heard in Transformers. Also, G.I. Joe: the Movie was *intended* as a theatrical release, but things like Hasbro interfering with Duke's death scene, Zarana's nude scene (did you know there was an official animation model for naked Zarana?!), and the eventual shift to a home video release, might have delayed things considerably.
There are some G.I. Joe episodes from 1985 that don't use the shared music at all. I think the episodes were probably be produced out of order, with many of them being pieced together simultaneously, and these were probably the earliest ones finished, before the shared music library was available. This is similar to how some late Transformers third-season episodes don't use any of the G.I. Joe: the Movie music (like "Fight or Flee," a Sandstorm introduction that we got long after Sandstorm's first animated appearance, and "Only Human"). I expect these were episodes that were started early on, but production delays resulted in them being aired late in the season.
You know what I'm having fun with right now? I play a DVD episode on the computer while I call up one of the "wrong" music tracks and play it on Windows Media Player at the same time. For instance, the fifth televised season (narrated by Puppetmaster Prime) used all the 1980's synthesizer music during their new storytelling segments, even for first-season episodes like "More Than Meets the Eye." It's a weird juxtaposition. Right now we're trying to figure out the logistics of how Jimbo is going to send me 200GB of sound files, but they should include every audio channel for each episode, dialogue and sound effects and music included. I really want to piece together some "wrong" episodes because they're so crazy. Like, what "Five Faces of Darkness" would have sounded like if they'd had the new third-season music available. Or, conversely, what "Webworld" would have sounded like with all first-season music. Or what The Transformers: the Movie would have sounded like with a television music soundtrack!
Before I have too much fun with that, of course, I would have to get cracking on putting together the rest of the soundtrack. Jimbo is basically done with season one but I'll be responsible for assembling the missing tracks for seasons two and three. It's gonna be a long summer!
Zob
I always had sort of a vague idea of which themes were reused, and approximately when it started, but now that I've been digging through both shows to build clean sound files for the virtual soundtrack, several interesting things have availed themselves to me.
For one, it wasn't until the beginning of the 1985 television season that the shared music came into play. This was the second season of Transformers and the third year for G.I. Joe (episodes 1-5 aired in 1983; episodes 6-11 aired in 1984; the new music began with the 1985 episodes, but for some reason numerous online resources lump all three years together as "season one"). For some reason I had always thought that somebody had taken all the G.I. Joe music that did not specifically sound like it belonged on that show (i.e., nothing with the "Real American Hero" melody) and borrowed it for Transformers. Turns out this isn't the case at all. (There do seem to be two instances of a very G.I. Joe-centric theme showing up in Transformers. One of them was the "wrong" commercial bumper theme in "The Insecticon Syndrome," which was likely included accidentally, or perhaps as a joke. The other is the military drum beat we hear during the rocket base speech in "Autobot Spike," which I think would have continued with a familiar G.I. Joe melody if it had been allowed to continue for more than a few seconds.)
Most of the new music made its debut on G.I. Joe in September 1985, but it would show up in Transformers that same month. The television season for G.I. Joe only began one week before Transformers did that year (September 16th for G.I. Joe; September 23rd for Transformers) so it's really only "G.I. Joe music" by merit of beating Transformers by seven days. All of these episodes were being written, recorded, and animated concurrently. It would be one thing if Transformers didn't start using the new themes until many weeks or months down the road. If the scheduling had been tweaked just slightly, it could easily have gone the other way around.
So, it's clear to me now that Sunbow likely requested a shared library of music from the start, one which was always intended to be used for both shows. There are at least three dozen shared themes; very little of the music introduced in Transformers season two was unique to that series. (Oddly, G.I. Joe also borrows some music from Transformers season one.)
Then of course there's the matter of G.I. Joe: the Movie, which uses older music from the television series but also a slew of newer themes that were also used in Transformers season three. I always tend to think that the music was written for G.I. Joe and appropriated for Transformers, but I don't really have any proof of this. Actually, the third season of Transformers started using the new music in October 1986 and G.I. Joe: the Movie wasn't released to home video until April 1987 (it was never in theaters), so if anything, it's "really" Transformers music that was used for G.I. Joe. I feel very strongly that the new music was composed for G.I. Joe: the Movie first, though, especially considering there are a lot of themes heard exclusively in the movie that were never heard in Transformers. Also, G.I. Joe: the Movie was *intended* as a theatrical release, but things like Hasbro interfering with Duke's death scene, Zarana's nude scene (did you know there was an official animation model for naked Zarana?!), and the eventual shift to a home video release, might have delayed things considerably.
There are some G.I. Joe episodes from 1985 that don't use the shared music at all. I think the episodes were probably be produced out of order, with many of them being pieced together simultaneously, and these were probably the earliest ones finished, before the shared music library was available. This is similar to how some late Transformers third-season episodes don't use any of the G.I. Joe: the Movie music (like "Fight or Flee," a Sandstorm introduction that we got long after Sandstorm's first animated appearance, and "Only Human"). I expect these were episodes that were started early on, but production delays resulted in them being aired late in the season.
You know what I'm having fun with right now? I play a DVD episode on the computer while I call up one of the "wrong" music tracks and play it on Windows Media Player at the same time. For instance, the fifth televised season (narrated by Puppetmaster Prime) used all the 1980's synthesizer music during their new storytelling segments, even for first-season episodes like "More Than Meets the Eye." It's a weird juxtaposition. Right now we're trying to figure out the logistics of how Jimbo is going to send me 200GB of sound files, but they should include every audio channel for each episode, dialogue and sound effects and music included. I really want to piece together some "wrong" episodes because they're so crazy. Like, what "Five Faces of Darkness" would have sounded like if they'd had the new third-season music available. Or, conversely, what "Webworld" would have sounded like with all first-season music. Or what The Transformers: the Movie would have sounded like with a television music soundtrack!
Before I have too much fun with that, of course, I would have to get cracking on putting together the rest of the soundtrack. Jimbo is basically done with season one but I'll be responsible for assembling the missing tracks for seasons two and three. It's gonna be a long summer!
Zob
Travoltron
Mar 31, 2015, 10:25:17 PM3/31/15
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On 3/31/2015 3:33 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> did you know there was an official animation model for naked Zarana
Neat! I've been shouted down on so many internet arguments with people
> did you know there was an official animation model for naked Zarana
saying that scene is an urban legend and Sunbow had no such plans.
And now I can go on the internet and see that it was true:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/teelamotu/GI%20Joe/TOPLESSZARANA-large.jpg
Waseem Bashar
Oct 19, 2020, 10:55:34 AM10/19/20
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At one time I did find a video in which someone dubbed Transformers the Movie with the Original soundtrack from season 1 and 2. It was all over the web, now I cant find it. Luckily it remains on my old Iphone4. Were you able to swap soundtracks as orignally planned?
Sky Raider
Oct 19, 2020, 2:20:05 PM10/19/20
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On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 6:33:52 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
>I feel very strongly that the new music was composed for G.I. Joe: the Movie first,
I can't agree with that, because of lot (not all of course) of the GI Joe Movie/TF season 3 music is just re-worked bits of Vince DiCola's movie score. For example, that one fast paced battle score when the Joes are first fighting Cobra-La (I don't know if it's called anything, but you definitely know the one!) is just "Autobot-Decepticon Battle" from the TF movie score. The mid-paced tune that plays at the start of Ghost in the Machine and Call of the Primitives? That's just "Contest for Leadership" from the scene on Astrotrain, turned up a bit. A lot of the synth-rock score from TF season 3 and GI Joe the Movie simply screams out Transformers to me, with it's futuristic and mysterious sci-fi vibes, and I don't think it's a coincidence that GI Joe started using it once it really started getting weird itself in the movie.
>I feel very strongly that the new music was composed for G.I. Joe: the Movie first,
I think it was probably a shared library from the start (or at least 1985, meaning Joe season 1 and TF season 2) and the shows simply leaned into more one style of music than the other. If there had been a third Sunbow Joe season, we would've probably heard more of the Movie/TF music.
What other bits of the Joe movie score are missing in Transformers? I don't think the "breakfast with Sgt. Slaughter" theme shows up in TF, or the Cobra-La theme (which could pull double duty as a Quintesson theme pretty nicely I think). I'm just going from memory here because I haven't seen the Joe movie in a long time.
Now here's a wrinkle...I wonder if there's any JEM music that shows up in Joe/TF's or vice versa?
Zobovor
Oct 19, 2020, 8:38:46 PM10/19/20
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On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 8:55:34 AM UTC-6, Waseem Bashar wrote:
> Were you able to swap soundtracks as orignally planned?
Uh, I did *some* of the movie. I actually have a lot more files on my computer than I've ever bothered to upload to YouTube. I should probably get on that.
> Were you able to swap soundtracks as orignally planned?
Zob (notoriously shy)
Zobovor
Oct 19, 2020, 9:00:16 PM10/19/20
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On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 12:20:05 PM UTC-6, Sky Raider wrote:
> I can't agree with that, because a lot of the GI Joe Movie/TF season 3 music
You're also right that some of the third season Transformers music is just reworked music from the Transformers: the Movie theatrical score. I probably should be more clear about stuff like this, because you never know when somebody's going to call me out, five years after the fact... :)
> What other bits of the Joe movie score are missing in Transformers?
There are some cool synthesizer themes from the Joe movie that definitely have the same flavor and feel as Transformers season three. The movie doesn't seem to be on Tubi, and there are just scattered clips on YouTube. Find me an online source and I can shoot you a time index list.
> I don't think the "breakfast with Sgt. Slaughter" theme shows up in TF
It does pop up in "Grimlock's New Brain," actually. End of the episode, I believe.
> Now here's a wrinkle...I wonder if there's any JEM music that shows up in
> Joe/TF's or vice versa?
Funny that you bring this up. There's a scene from "Money is Everything" when Marissa Faireborn is dancing with Han Solo... uh, I mean Dirk Manus and they play a Jem leitmotif. I was convinced for years that this music was borrowed from Jem, which makes sense since the Transformers music library didn't have any romantic mood music. I actually bought the entire Jem series on DVD and screened every single episode, just to find this music. And it NEVER SHOWED UP.
However, I'm told by folks who are Jem experts (Jemologists?) that there are two versions of some episodes... one that played in the original seven-minute segments during the Super Saturday block along with Bigfoot and the Muscle Machines and Robotix, and another version when the seven-minute segments were cut together into 22-minute episodes. Specifically, that romantic music is supposed to be in an alternate version of the Jem episode "Kimber's Rebellion," but I only have the version released to DVD and the other version has not availed itself despite rigorous searching. So, there's that.
It's rumored that some Transformers music also shows up in the My Little Pony cartoon, but the show is dreadful and I couldn't bring myself to screen any episodes. So, perhaps that will always remain a mystery to me.
Zob (Jem totally has cameo appearances by Cobra Commander and Optimus Prime)
> I can't agree with that, because a lot of the GI Joe Movie/TF season 3 music
> is just re-worked bits of Vince DiCola's movie score.
Yes, you're absolutely right. But the new music introduced during Transformers season three consists partly of tunes written specifically for the show, and partly of the shared themes also used in G.I. Joe: the Movie. There is definitely music that was composed specifically for Transformers, and you can tell because it usually has the Ford Kinder theme song leitmotif in there somewhere.
You're also right that some of the third season Transformers music is just reworked music from the Transformers: the Movie theatrical score. I probably should be more clear about stuff like this, because you never know when somebody's going to call me out, five years after the fact... :)
> What other bits of the Joe movie score are missing in Transformers?
> I don't think the "breakfast with Sgt. Slaughter" theme shows up in TF
> Now here's a wrinkle...I wonder if there's any JEM music that shows up in
> Joe/TF's or vice versa?
However, I'm told by folks who are Jem experts (Jemologists?) that there are two versions of some episodes... one that played in the original seven-minute segments during the Super Saturday block along with Bigfoot and the Muscle Machines and Robotix, and another version when the seven-minute segments were cut together into 22-minute episodes. Specifically, that romantic music is supposed to be in an alternate version of the Jem episode "Kimber's Rebellion," but I only have the version released to DVD and the other version has not availed itself despite rigorous searching. So, there's that.
It's rumored that some Transformers music also shows up in the My Little Pony cartoon, but the show is dreadful and I couldn't bring myself to screen any episodes. So, perhaps that will always remain a mystery to me.
Zob (Jem totally has cameo appearances by Cobra Commander and Optimus Prime)
Joseph Bardsley
Oct 22, 2020, 10:56:58 PM10/22/20
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For me, my personal Holy Grall would be stumbling upon the piano reductions (or, original scores) for these pieces. What a treat to be able to play through them!
(Which reminds me - as a musician - piano and French horn player - I've taken the time over the years to transcribe a few of my favourite pieces from the Movie for piano, and, where applicable, voice, too. If anyone wants legit professional piano / piano-vocal scores for 'Death of Optimus Prime', or 'Nothin's Gonna Stand In Our Way', in the original keys, let me know!)
JB
Travoltron
Oct 23, 2020, 8:36:58 AM10/23/20
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On 10/22/2020 7:56 PM, Joseph Bardsley wrote:
> For me, my personal Holy Grail would be stumbling upon the piano reductions (or, original scores) for these pieces.
Do you mean sheet music?
People have made MIDIs of several of the songs and I think those could
be converted into sheet music.
> For me, my personal Holy Grail would be stumbling upon the piano reductions (or, original scores) for these pieces.
Do you mean sheet music?
People have made MIDIs of several of the songs and I think those could
be converted into sheet music.
Joseph Bardsley
Oct 23, 2020, 9:08:53 PM10/23/20
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JB
Waseem Bashar
Oct 26, 2020, 3:34:24 PM10/26/20
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Not sure if you guys created this. I extracted of my old phone. But check it out. Someone swapped out the 86 movie with the regular season 1 music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA5YRRMRy-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA5YRRMRy-I
Zobovor
Oct 28, 2020, 5:31:29 PM10/28/20
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On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 1:34:24 PM UTC-6, Waseem Bashar wrote:
> Not sure if you guys created this. I extracted of my old phone. But check it
> out. Someone swapped out the 86 movie with the regular season 1 music.
Ugh! I was in the middle of trying to watch it when YouTube threw up a copyright block. Very annoying.
> Not sure if you guys created this. I extracted of my old phone. But check it
> out. Someone swapped out the 86 movie with the regular season 1 music.
Zob
Waseem Bashar
Oct 29, 2020, 9:04:03 AM10/29/20
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I'll upload somewhere else, any suggestions?
Zobovor
Oct 29, 2020, 12:13:23 PM10/29/20
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On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 7:04:03 AM UTC-6, Waseem Bashar wrote:
> What they blocked me? Wow Hasbros's lawyers are quick.
I believe YouTube has this AI algorithm that compares user videos against its vast media database of films and songs, and if it recognizes a clip of sufficient length then it flags the user video automatically.
> What they blocked me? Wow Hasbros's lawyers are quick.
I've tried to upload versions of Transformers episodes that were significantly edited, and whose soundtrack was replaced entirely, but it still flagged them for copyright infringement. Go figure.
> Hopefully you saw most of it and got the idea.
> I'll upload somewhere else, any suggestions?
Zob (shrugs aggressively)
Waseem Bashar
Nov 3, 2020, 10:50:27 AM11/3/20
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Adam
Jul 23, 2023, 2:42:27 PM7/23/23
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Zobovor
Jul 23, 2023, 10:10:41 PM7/23/23
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On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:42:27 PM UTC-6, Adam wrote:
> question is why did they take so long to reveal
Not really sure what you're asking. Why did it take so long for the second season to start using new music? Or the third season? Why did it take us so long to release the music tracks? I don't understand your question.
> question is why did they take so long to reveal
Zob (when in doubt, I like to blame the government)
Velvet Glove
Jul 24, 2023, 4:49:25 AM7/24/23
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Thread necromancy, but this is an interesting one. I remember when I lived in the States as a child from 1987-1989, and every weekday morning was watching a block of Sunbow shows, Transformers, G I Joe, My Little Pony and Jem (plus MASK). I picked up on a lot of commonalities over those two years but I don't recall noticing the music overlaps.
My Little Pony really *is* dreadful, btw. It was pitched at a younger audience, so it's kind of like an entire series of the most dumbed down G1 episodes, but it does have a stellar crew of writers and I'll always value it for being the one show that had a female ensemble on a par with TF (including a lot of the same character-types). Jem didn't, because the same dolls could be sold year after year in different outfits. Jem also used professional singers for the songs, so MLP is one of the best places to hear G1 actors singing (Mostly Sue Blue, Charlie Adler and Michael Bell, but Frank Welker and Peter Cullen popped up regularly as well--I just don't remember them being in songs outside of the Movie). Because it was for a different age setting, I wouldn't have expected it to have the same music, but it's definitely possible.
Is there an easy place online to listen to the show's soundtrack? My ear is pretty awful, but I could maybe go through some of the pony episodes and listen out for the background music.
My Little Pony really *is* dreadful, btw. It was pitched at a younger audience, so it's kind of like an entire series of the most dumbed down G1 episodes, but it does have a stellar crew of writers and I'll always value it for being the one show that had a female ensemble on a par with TF (including a lot of the same character-types). Jem didn't, because the same dolls could be sold year after year in different outfits. Jem also used professional singers for the songs, so MLP is one of the best places to hear G1 actors singing (Mostly Sue Blue, Charlie Adler and Michael Bell, but Frank Welker and Peter Cullen popped up regularly as well--I just don't remember them being in songs outside of the Movie). Because it was for a different age setting, I wouldn't have expected it to have the same music, but it's definitely possible.
Is there an easy place online to listen to the show's soundtrack? My ear is pretty awful, but I could maybe go through some of the pony episodes and listen out for the background music.
Zobovor
Jul 24, 2023, 5:59:30 PM7/24/23
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On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 2:49:25 AM UTC-6, Velvet Glove wrote:
> My Little Pony really *is* dreadful, btw.
I tried. I tried so hard to watch it. But, at the time I was already screening the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon, plus Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, AND the Jem cartoon. I actually liked Jem. But I just couldn't sit through My Little Pony. I couldn't do it.
> My Little Pony really *is* dreadful, btw.
> Is there an easy place online to listen to the show's soundtrack? My ear is pretty awful, but I could maybe go through some of the pony episodes and listen out for the background music.
Zob (bought Moss Man today and, true to form, he does indeed smell like Christmas trees)
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