10 Things That Could Have Made Beast Wars Better
Zobovor
Machines list was just me trying to quantify what it was that I
disliked most about the show, I can't do that with Beast Wars because
I don't consider it a bad show by any means. There is room for
improvement, though, so if I were to look at its weakest points and
see what could have stood to be done differently, this is what I would
change.
10) Shadows. Yes, computer animation was in its infancy and it was
difficult to render shadows for the characters. Fans assumed that the
CGI guys could just click a button or something and a shadow would
appear in the right spot, but in fact it was treated as a separate
"character" that had to be animated on its own. The problem is that
the lack of shadows made the characters sometimes look like they
weren't interacting with their environment. When Cheetor ran, it
always looked like he was slipping on ice because there was nothing to
ground him. There were rare scenes when the animators took the extra
step of animating a character's shadow, but it only served to make the
other scenes with no shadows obvious and glaring.
9) Tigerhawk: Why? Hasbro had insisted on including Tigerhawk in the
show, a toy that was originally conceived as an update for Silverbolt
but whose head was resculpted to account for the Tigatron/Airazor
fusion that was presented in the show. The problem is, Hasbro up and
ordered the Tigerhawk character killed almost immediately after he was
written into the show. Following a long absence after their capture
by the Vok, Tigatron and Airazor finally reappeared as Tigerhawk, only
to be killed after three episodes. This also makes Tigerhawk the
first character in Transformers history who was killed off before his
toy ever hit retail stores. The toy was obviously rushed, with such
features as an aborted, undocumented vehicle mode (complete with
vestigal wheels that served no purpose), but if Hasbro had changed
their minds about the character appearing on TV, then why bother to
produce the toy at all? What was the point?
8) The Infamous Cut Scene. The final episode of the series drew many
important plot points to a close, not the least of which was stopping
Predacon leader Megatron from tampering with history on prehistoric
Earth. Following the capture of Megatron, Optimal Optimus declares,
"At last, all is as it should be," meaning that Megatron's attempts to
change history had been undone. But wait—wasn't he still carrying the
living spark of Decepticon leader Megatron within his body? Surely
that would have had a profound effect on the way history unfolded!
Naturally, the scene was scripted and animated, but one of the editors
cut the scene, completely failing to recognize its importance. So, as
the episode originally aired, the most significant history-altering
change goes completely unchecked. (The cut scene was made available
on bwtf.com, and was also provided on the DVD release.)
7) Inferno or Scavenger? This is more about the toy line than the
show, but I have to ask what was up with Transmetal Scavenger. Every
single one of the other Transmetals toys up to that point had been an
updated version of an existing character, specifically one who had
appeared on TV. So, after a fashion, it was the cartoon that
determined which characters got turned into Transmetals. It was
obvious that this was what the Transmetals series was—characters from
the show in new bodies. (Even characters who weren't transformed on
the show got Transmetal toys, like Waspinator and Rhinox.) So why
take this Transmetal fire ant with the psychotic grinning face and
pretend it's a new character named Scavenger, when we all know it's
Inferno? Nobody knew who Scavenger was, which probably directly
contributed to him becoming the worst shelfwarmer in Beast Wars
history.
6) Less Hasbro Interference. I mentioned one of Hasbro's directives
regarding Tigerhawk above, but generally speaking, Hasbro's meddling
with the course of the show was detrimental. Yes, Transformers is
their property and ultimately they have the right to exercise as much
creative control as they want, but they did so at the expense of
skilled writers like Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward telling the story
they wanted to tell.
5) Less Fan Interference. When the story editors were first
approached to write for Beast Wars, they knew absolutely nothing about
Transformers. They had done some preliminary research, leafing
through the comic book and watching G1 episodes like "S.O.S. Dinobots"
to see how it related to their Dinobot, but for the most part they had
no idea there was a larger, devout fan base out there. (The reference
to the Great War in the pilot episode is not a deliberate G1 reference
at all, but a happy accident.) Once they began communicating with the
fans online, however, they realized there was this wealth of history
and the references to both G1 and to the fandom itself started flying
fast and furious. Now, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. I love G1
and I love the fact that Beast Wars is so strongly intertwined with
it, but at the same time, the show suffered because of it. To fully
enjoy the show required a working knowledge of G1 and a familiarity
with oldskool characters like Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream,
Unicron, etc. that the target audience just didn't possess. I have
also wondered what direction the show would have gone in if the
writers had been left to their own devices and hadn't felt pressured
to cater to the fans by incorporating the Ark and its dormant
passengers into the show, a continuity-heavy story arc that would
surely have alienated anyone who didn't understand its significance.
4) Dead...Then Not. So many dramatic would-be character deaths were
rendered completely nullified as the series progressed. Optimus
Primal was killed at the end of the first season, but he came back
shiny and new in no time at all. Most of the Predacons were quite
clearly and obviously demolished beyond repair at the end of the
second season, including Inferno getting vaporized before our eyes,
but he was retconned back into existence by the beginning of season
three. When death is merely a temporary condition on this show, it
seems strange, then, that some characters can come back from it
(Tarantulas, Rampage, Quickstrike) while others cannot (Scorponok,
Terrorsaur, Ravage) depending, of course, on the needs of the story.
3) Size of the Cast. I realize that there were certain limitations
regarding how many CGI models the animators could come up with, and 15
years ago computers didn't have enough memory to do huge crowd scenes
like they can now. With only five Maximals present at the start of
the show, though, there was only so much character interaction
possible, and character scenes got redundant pretty quick. The
introduction of new characters like Silverbolt or Depth Charge
provided a much-needed injection of novelty into the character line-
up, but new characters were too few and far between, especially when
something like three-quarters of the Beast Wars toy line were never
featured on TV.
2) Product Placement. You can sure tell when there's a new Beast
Wars toy in stores, because this show hits you over the head with it.
Rattrap goes out of his way to coin the term "Transmetal," which
naturally everybody immediately adopts. Megatron describes the
malfunctioning Silverbolt and Quickstrike as "Fuzors," a term which
means absolutely nothing, but again, everybody (including them!)
begins to use it. Megatron gets to assign a lot of names to
characters, actually, since he also makes sure to name-drop Optimal
Optimus (twice) as well as the Transmetal 2's. It's so jarring and
disruptive and surely there must have been a more subtle way of using
the Hasbro trademarks in dialogue without making viewers feel like
they just got whacked with a Transmetal 2 mallet.
1) Serious or Silly? This is perhaps the biggest problem that
plagued the show—its narrative voice was completely confused. Was it
an action-packed drama about warring robots from space, or a goofy
slapstick cartoon? The answer, of course, is yes to both—at different
times, or often at the same time. Humor was sometimes handled well
when comic relief was used sparingly to lighten the mood after a deep
and heavy sequence, but it was an unsettling juxtaposition when the
bizarre silliness was interjected right in the middle of an otherwise
serious moment. Perhaps the worst of these occurs during "Feral
Scream," a dark story about mysterious disappearing monsters, during
which Megatron starts spinning around like the Tazmanian Devil of
Warner Brothers fame for no apparent reason. This is an egregious
example, but there are dozens of others. I love serious cartoons
(Aeon Flux, G.I. Joe) and I love goofy cartoons, too (Ninja Turtles,
Phineas and Ferb) but it doesn't make sense to be both at the same
time.
Next: Ten Things That Could Have Made G1 Better! (How will I ever
narrow it down?)
Zob
Travoltron
> 5) Less Fan Interference.
Yeah. I also really hated it when they would namedrop fans or their
websites. Such an eyeroller. I hate fanservicey dialogue in general.
> 1) Serious or Silly?
I think this was my biggest turnoff. Lots of really goofy humor. I
haven't seen the show in years, but I remember Megatron bouncing against
boulders and making a pinball sound effect and Megatron bathing with a
rubber duck. And the occasional flatulence. And Waspinator getting
mangled every episode got old fast.
The only reason I gave the show a second chance was because someone here
at a.t.t was nice enough to give me VHS copies and asked me to watch it
again. I'm glad I did.
I still haven't seen the majority of Beast Machines, though.
...also known as Thunder
> On 4/22/2010 9:18 PM, Zobovor wrote:
>> 5) Less Fan Interference.
> Yeah. I also really hated it when they would namedrop fans or their
> websites. Such an eyeroller. I hate fanservicey dialogue in general.
I agree about this point. It gets annoying fast when you know what
they're referencing.
> 9) Tigerhawk:
>The problem is, Hasbro up and
> ordered the Tigerhawk character killed almost immediately after he was
> written into the show.
Did Hasbro actually order it? That seems like a stupid move (for several
reasons).
> 8) The Infamous Cut Scene.
I'd heard it was cut for time. But if so, why not have actually put it
back into the actual episode on DVD (instead of as a deleted scene,
which means nothing to the final story).
> 4) Dead...Then Not. <snip>When death is merely a temporary condition on this show, it
> seems strange, then, that some characters can come back from it
> (Tarantulas, Rampage, Quickstrike) while others cannot (Scorponok,
> Terrorsaur, Ravage) depending, of course, on the needs of the story.
Agreed. The worst case, as you mentioned, was Inferno and co. at the end
of season two. No one even tried explaining it.
> 3) Size of the Cast. I realize that there were certain limitations
> regarding how many CGI models the animators could come up with, and 15
> years ago computers didn't have enough memory to do huge crowd scenes
> like they can now.
I always wondered why they couldn't just recolor some of the models they
had and make then new characters (I'm no animator but I was under tbe
belief this wasn't *that* difficult).
> 1) Serious or Silly? Perhaps the worst of these occurs during "Feral
> Scream," a dark story about mysterious disappearing monsters, during
> which Megatron starts spinning around like the Tazmanian Devil of
> Warner Brothers fame for no apparent reason.
Agreed. Sometimes it was inappropriate (although I did enjoy that first
season episode where Waspinator or someone is shot in mid-transformation).
t.k.
Uriel
> 10) Shadows.
This is a bit unfair, I feel. They did put in shadows into a few
episodes, couldn't put them into all of them. Blame the budget, I
suppose. Besides, I'll be honest, I almost didn't notice the shadows
(or lack thereof) once the show took off.
I am going to make a point about the animation though: not all that
cool. Dinobot, particularly, always looked like he was waddling in
beast mode. Megatron looked best, I must admit, but the others just
looked... odd.
> 9) Tigerhawk: Why?
Tigerhawk /was/ terrible. Nice-looking toy, but too much of a deus ex
machina (literally) to be entertaining. And it's just as well he
wasn't around longer, because he would've had to suffer severe de-
powering to fit into the show.
> 8) The Infamous Cut Scene.
On the topic of cut-content, what about "Dark Glass"? Did it even
exist, or was it just a ghost?
> 7) Inferno or Scavenger?
I'm going to ask about the toys in general: weren't there too many of
the buggers? One of y'all mentioned they picked the most potential
shelf-warmers and put them into the show, and that makes sense, but
there so many characters! Bears and wolves and birds of every
description. Compare that with Animated's line.
> 6) Less Hasbro Interference.
Well, you never know. It might be that Hasbro's interference might
have improved a few things. We only know about the stuff they got
wrong, and are up in arms about it.
> 5) Less Fan Interference.
Some of it was cool, some of it was fanwank, particularly what some
people were saying would wind up near the end of Season 3 with the
Coneheads and all that. Having Beast Wars tie back to G1 was nice, and
appreciated. Having the Ark as this super-powerful doo-hicky... eh,
not so much.
I dunno, maybe it was like someone from nowadays getting his hands on
a muscle car out of the '70s and thinking, "Gosh, check out the
horsepower on this thing! How were they able to afford to pay for
petrol?"
Still, how can you not like Rattrap's reaction to Rhinox's awestruck
"Where all are one."
"Oh, where all are– what?!"
> 4) Dead...Then Not.
Can't kill Optimii. They have a bloody contract. They're like Bugs
Bunny or Daffy Duck. Oh, and like them, most of the characters had
invulnerability clauses, based on how ridiculous the "death" was.
This, though, I suspect was one of the consequences of the
aforementioned "corporate interference".
> 3) Size of the Cast.
I preferred the small cast, I really did. Nearly everyone had their
moments (which decreased as the series wound to an end because of how
often new characters were being introduced). A few characters had
more, but nearly everyone got some sort of character scene, even a
couple of Predacons ("The Web", you could argue was as much Cheetor
and Rattrap's as it was Tarantulas'). Poor Rhinox and Waspinator
though. Neither of them got new bodies or abilities. Waspinator at
least got to appear on screen (only to be blown apart), but Rhinox
became "the tool guy", ignored and forgotten.
> 2) Product Placement.
"Transmetal 2" was especially bad. "Feral Scream" and then bloody,
bloody "Crossing the Rubicon". Blackarachnia was far more entertaining
as a normal Beast Warrior.
Mind you, some of Meggy's lines were as cool as they were self-aware:
"New packaging. Same product. Losers."
"Six little Maximals. Well. I've almost collected the whole set!"
Really, it's the delivery. David Kaye made it all better.
> 1) Serious or Silly?
"The Low Road". Tarantulas, the creepy spider, managed to make to
invoke the spark of every Warner Brother animator in history.
The writing was pretty serious. The actions were... not so much. Even
Dinobot's big episode managed to be a bit slapstick.
Maybe they figured they couldn't handle big action sequences in a
serious manner? They looked at how the first few episodes turned out
and figured, "Oh, what the hell."
TigerMegatron
I'm come to the conclusion & have lowered by expectactions on hasbro
doing a TF cartoon I actually prefer & enjoy. the year 2005 Cybertron
cartoon was my favorite because it took itself so seriously.
i'm not a fan of the all viewer ages TF cartoons & live action movies.
that's why I hate the ROTF movie & animated. when you try to cater to
toddlers,teenagers & adults at the same time,the end result looks
horrible.
beastwars season 3 was a major let down compared to BW seasons 1 & 2.
I was kinda amused that BW megatron fell into the lava & powered up
into TM2 Megatron. it's amuzing because beastwars 2nd galvatron
"first" fell into a lava bath & got his powerful body.
I wonder if bob & larry stole this from the bw2nd cartoon.
I think my most hated bw cartoon character was Inferno. he was just so
over the top. he was just a over moron & didn't really show the
ability to function on his own or have any inner passion.
it was plainly obvious hasbro had to kill off all the BW characters in
season 3 that weren't making the jump to beastmachines.
beastwars was a much better cartoon than beastmachines
I liked the G-1 stuff they put into beastwars. like unicron's head,the
ark,the MTMTE crew in statis lock. ravage & the vok. I don't think I
would have enjoyed BW had it not had all the G-1 stuff thrown in.
I think tigerhawk had a powerful presence in all 3 bw episodes he was
in. yeah that tigerhawk toy clearly looked like a fuzor silverbolt
toy. I was actually successful in finding 2 hidden alt modes a tank
mode & a gun mode.
I agree the tigerhawk character was way too powerful to actually fit
into the beastwars cartoon episodes.
a lot of the slap stick humor got old & booring pretty fast. what I
hated is when they over did the jokes & scenarios. waspinator fell to
pieces to many times,to the point he was deemed the weakest BW
character of them all. inferno sounded like a broken record that kept
repeating itself over & over.
I would have liked to see BW megatron & optimus primal fight hand to
hand combat. or tooth to claw like megatron put it. that first fight
when megatron bit into optimus primals leg was so cool.
to not see megatron & primal fight tooth to claw anymore was just
dissapointing.
I so enjoyed that BW episode when terrorsaur got that energy power up
& blew megatron to bits.
blackarachnia goes down in my book as the sexiest TF female ever. BA
had such a 3D persona.
I didn't care for when silverbolt went eccentric & acted like a crazed
spanish lover in BA's presence.
I would have liked to see beastwars optimus primal get better toys. it
seems like primals toys just kept getting worse. the ultra gorrilla
was his best toy. the tm1 toy was just confusing,tiny & not that
great. I didn't like the optimal optimus toy at all. the optimal toy
was a total kibble mess in all modes. I sold my optimal toy & got the
better colored primal prime toy. still that primal prime toy suffered
the horrible designs of the mold.
TigerMegatron
I loved the 1998 TM1 scavenger toy. yeah I agree the toy should have
been named inferno.
Megatron got 2 really great toys. the 1996 ultra T-rex & the mega
sized TM1 T-rex. that TM2 megatron toy was just the WORST kibble
former I ever saw. the bw2nd galvatron & TFCR Gigatron were clearly
the superior dragon/bot toys.
Looking back it's kinda weird hasbro kept repainting the dinobot molds
into grimlock. when the beast mode was a raptor. It would have made
more sense to repaint the first 2 megatron toys into grimlock colors.
both the 1996 & tm1 megatron toys would have looked great in grimlock
colors.
I wasn't a fan of that ET looking transmute.
The rampage & depthcharge battles were so freaking cool.
I think not having that "shattered glass" episode in season 3 really
took away the TM2 dinobots persona growth & purpose in the show.
TigerMegatron
What does everyone think the most popular & important characters was
in the beastwars cartoon?
My vote goes to dinobot.
I just can't imagine beastwars being that great without dinobot.
Dinobot was such a important character because without dinobot
switching faction sides. the maximals would have been outnumbered &
lost the beastwars from the start.
Dinobot saved the valley so that the humans could live on & reproduce
thus helping the autobots win the great war in the future.
I really liked how dinobot acted like a star trek klingon in his
warrior way of life.
TM2 dinobot clearly saved the day again & helped win the final war.
thus winning the beastwars at the end.
I loved how dinobot took charge in season 2 while rhinox was trying to
save primal's spark.
Dinobot had the golden disk. which was what the beastwars was all
about. megatron trying to chance history.
It's kinda a shame dinobot got such awful toys. I would really like to
see a voyager sized dinobot toy made.
Paradox .OS
The CG just took getting used to, to the point where I don't even
notice that there aren't any shadows lying about the character's
ankles. Besides, the technology was still quite new, so this one
doesn't strike me as a deal-breaker.
I would enjoy seeing BW gone through with better graphics and
animation though.
> 9) Tigerhawk
I'm more of the cartoon-and-comic breed of TF fan, and I only casually
collect the toys, so forgive me for snipping that aspect of this
argument.
Tigerhawk, as a character, didn't bother me. The death three episodes
later did, however. I feel like he(/she?) should have survived to the
end of the series, regardless of what Hasbro said. So I partially
agree with this statement.
On that note though, one wonders what a technorganic Tigerhawk would
have been like. Or, would he/she have split back into Tigatron and
Airrazor? There's something to mull around in the old noggin.
> 8) The Infamous Cut Scene
This one falls into the same sort of annoyance as Dark Glass does for
me--though admittedly, that's only because I'm an _insatiable_ Dinobot/
Rattrap type of shipper, and Dark Glass would have injected me with a
lovely dosage of emotionally draining, satisfying, angst and
development. I was always disappointed by Rattrap's lack of contact
with Dinobot II, but, eh.
That, along with the cut scene from Nemesis, I just write off as canon
but off-camera events. It _is_ aggrivating, of course, and if they
ever did a re-make of Beast Wars, I'd love for them to include those
scenes.
> 7) Inferno or Scavenger?
A toy issue, really, so I can't quite comment here.
> 6) Less Hasbro Interference.
Yes and no, here. I don't know the extent of their influence, aside
from the killing off of Tigerhawk (which was annoying as all get out),
so I can't cast a valid opinion on this one.
> 5) Less Fan Interference.
Beast Machines had a "less fan interference" attitude too, and look
what happened to it. Now we've got wrong-sounding Maximals (forgive my
Family Guy reference there).
OK, OK, not literally but I think I made my point. The fan-service in
Beast Wars just doesn't bother me, though I think one or two points
could have used a little polish. Polish, of course, in the form of
seasons 2 and 3 being longer. Season 2 is probably my favorite season,
but it's kind of hard to compare to the glorious meatball foot-long
that is season 1, when you're only have the size and lacking
condiments.
> 4) Dead...Then Not.
I half-agree. I kinda write off Primal's death in season 1 as the
traditional All Optimus Must Die kinda deal, just so's they can play
robo-Jesus. I _do_ feel, however, that he should have come back a few
episodes later. It would have made for a delightfully entertaining
arc, seeing how the Maximals would cope with the loss and who'd lead
(my money is on Rattrap) til he got back.
But, seasons 2 and 3 both were painfully short compared to season 1,
so there wasn't much in the way of meaningful story arcs that weren't
resolved within a single episode.
> 3) Size of the Cast.
OK, this one I disagree wholeheartedly with. I absolutely loved how
small the cast was by comparison. I find I have a difficult time
growing too attached to characters from other TF cartoons, simply
because there's too goddamn many of them. Beast Wars kept it all nice
and compact, and each character--even the fashionably late ones--got
their token Moment To Shine.
Watching the evolution of the characters who were along from the
beginning was fascinating to me. Rattrap developed especially well.
...If you couldn't tell I really, really like Rattrap. Especially in
conjunction with--*BRICK'D*
> 2) Product Placement.
The name-dropping made me quirk the skeptical brow from time to time,
but it seems like a relatively minor issue all-in-all. Transmetal
didn't bother me, it sounds lame enough that I could see Rattrap as
having come up with it. Fuzor and Optimal Optimus, meanwhile, did jar
me a bit. Megatron is a nutty fruitcake, sure, but he doesn't seem
like the time to throw names around like that.
> 1) Serious or Silly?
This one I disagree with you 100%...OK, perhaps closer to 90%.
I love the shows that can balance out dark and gritty with
lighthearted and goofy, and Beast Wars did a good job. There were a
few less-than-seamless moments though--like the moment in Feral Scream
you mentioned--but for the most part this is a complete non-issue, and
in fact, part of the show's charm.
Aah, perhaps I'm too forgiving towards Beast Wars, but I can't help
it. It really is my favorite Transformers continuity, one I would
adore to see explored further (hell, I'd take more technorganic at
this point, and I don't even count that in my personal timeline).
Hell, it's straight-up my favorite cartoon in general.
I'd adore to see a re-make or TFA-esque re-invention of Beast Wars
someday. It'd certainly be interesting.
> Next: Ten Things That Could Have Made G1 Better! (How will I ever
> narrow it down?)
Oh lawd. How, indeed.
-Dox
Onslaught Six
> 9) Tigerhawk: Why? Hasbro had insisted on including Tigerhawk in the
> show, a toy that was originally conceived as an update for Silverbolt
> but whose head was resculpted to account for the Tigatron/Airazor
> fusion that was presented in the show. The problem is, Hasbro up and
> ordered the Tigerhawk character killed almost immediately after he was
> written into the show. Following a long absence after their capture
> by the Vok, Tigatron and Airazor finally reappeared as Tigerhawk, only
> to be killed after three episodes. This also makes Tigerhawk the
> first character in Transformers history who was killed off before his
> toy ever hit retail stores. The toy was obviously rushed, with such
> features as an aborted, undocumented vehicle mode (complete with
> vestigal wheels that served no purpose), but if Hasbro had changed
> their minds about the character appearing on TV, then why bother to
> produce the toy at all? What was the point?
This is the first I've heard that Tigerhawk was supposed to be
Silverbolt. (Incidentally, I always partially assumed Silverbolt came
about because Tigatron was going to be Wolfang...and before that, BS
circumstantial evidence I use to my advantage says Polar Claw was
considered.)
> 8) The Infamous Cut Scene. The final episode of the series drew many
> important plot points to a close, not the least of which was stopping
> Predacon leader Megatron from tampering with history on prehistoric
> Earth. Following the capture of Megatron, Optimal Optimus declares,
> "At last, all is as it should be," meaning that Megatron's attempts to
> change history had been undone. But wait—wasn't he still carrying the
> living spark of Decepticon leader Megatron within his body? Surely
> that would have had a profound effect on the way history unfolded!
> Naturally, the scene was scripted and animated, but one of the editors
> cut the scene, completely failing to recognize its importance. So, as
> the episode originally aired, the most significant history-altering
> change goes completely unchecked. (The cut scene was made available
> on bwtf.com, and was also provided on the DVD release.)
Yes. Though I think it was cut for time?
> 7) Inferno or Scavenger? This is more about the toy line than the
> show, but I have to ask what was up with Transmetal Scavenger. Every
> single one of the other Transmetals toys up to that point had been an
> updated version of an existing character, specifically one who had
> appeared on TV. So, after a fashion, it was the cartoon that
> determined which characters got turned into Transmetals. It was
> obvious that this was what the Transmetals series was—characters from
> the show in new bodies. (Even characters who weren't transformed on
> the show got Transmetal toys, like Waspinator and Rhinox.) So why
> take this Transmetal fire ant with the psychotic grinning face and
> pretend it's a new character named Scavenger, when we all know it's
> Inferno? Nobody knew who Scavenger was, which probably directly
> contributed to him becoming the worst shelfwarmer in Beast Wars
> history.
The prototype was even named TM Inferno, wasn't it? I think it was
only changed to Scavenger to protect the copyright.
> 6) Less Hasbro Interference. I mentioned one of Hasbro's directives
> regarding Tigerhawk above, but generally speaking, Hasbro's meddling
> with the course of the show was detrimental. Yes, Transformers is
> their property and ultimately they have the right to exercise as much
> creative control as they want, but they did so at the expense of
> skilled writers like Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward telling the story
> they wanted to tell.
This was mostly in the third season, when BW was shown to be a really
big important thing, and was really having a profound effect on the
universe it was taking place in. If Hasbro was this concerned from the
start, I'd imagine they'd have insisted Primal and Megs become Prime
and Megs.
> 5) Less Fan Interference. When the story editors were first
> approached to write for Beast Wars, they knew absolutely nothing about
> Transformers. They had done some preliminary research, leafing
> through the comic book and watching G1 episodes like "S.O.S. Dinobots"
> to see how it related to their Dinobot, but for the most part they had
> no idea there was a larger, devout fan base out there. (The reference
> to the Great War in the pilot episode is not a deliberate G1 reference
> at all, but a happy accident.) Once they began communicating with the
> fans online, however, they realized there was this wealth of history
> and the references to both G1 and to the fandom itself started flying
> fast and furious. Now, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. I love G1
> and I love the fact that Beast Wars is so strongly intertwined with
> it, but at the same time, the show suffered because of it. To fully
> enjoy the show required a working knowledge of G1 and a familiarity
> with oldskool characters like Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream,
> Unicron, etc. that the target audience just didn't possess. I have
> also wondered what direction the show would have gone in if the
> writers had been left to their own devices and hadn't felt pressured
> to cater to the fans by incorporating the Ark and its dormant
> passengers into the show, a continuity-heavy story arc that would
> surely have alienated anyone who didn't understand its significance.
This isn't necessarily true. I was nine or ten when I finally saw BW
(Being that it aired in syndication, it wasn't until the Fox Kids!
reruns that I was made aware of its existance, beyond one or two of
the toys) and generally had zero knowledge of TF. I'd owned maybe two
or three real TFs prior to BW. I had no idea who Optimus Prime and
Megatron and Starscream were.
But I enjoyed the show, and I enjoyed all the mythology it put into
it. Suddenly I had this huge interest in who these Optimus Prime and
Original Megatron characters were. I even found surrogate toys to act
as those characters when I played with my toys (because I still was
young enough to literally play with toys then) because I was so
interested in them. So it wasn't really a detriment as much as you
might imagine.
> 4) Dead...Then Not. So many dramatic would-be character deaths were
> rendered completely nullified as the series progressed. Optimus
> Primal was killed at the end of the first season, but he came back
> shiny and new in no time at all. Most of the Predacons were quite
> clearly and obviously demolished beyond repair at the end of the
> second season, including Inferno getting vaporized before our eyes,
> but he was retconned back into existence by the beginning of season
> three. When death is merely a temporary condition on this show, it
> seems strange, then, that some characters can come back from it
> (Tarantulas, Rampage, Quickstrike) while others cannot (Scorponok,
> Terrorsaur, Ravage) depending, of course, on the needs of the story.
That's exactly what it was--the needs of the story. Bob 'n' Larry knew
that every season might be the last, and wrote accordingly. That's why
Primal dies at the end of S1 and 'all' the Predacons are essentially
dead at the end of S2. In fact, I remember they pretty much 'had' to
bring back Inferno because if they didn't, Megs would have almost no
troops left.
> 3) Size of the Cast. I realize that there were certain limitations
> regarding how many CGI models the animators could come up with, and 15
> years ago computers didn't have enough memory to do huge crowd scenes
> like they can now. With only five Maximals present at the start of
> the show, though, there was only so much character interaction
> possible, and character scenes got redundant pretty quick. The
> introduction of new characters like Silverbolt or Depth Charge
> provided a much-needed injection of novelty into the character line-
> up, but new characters were too few and far between, especially when
> something like three-quarters of the Beast Wars toy line were never
> featured on TV.
It doesn't help that a lot of characters were 'boring.' Airazor did
absolutely nothing. She was just there to be a chick and to sell a
cruddy toy. Scorponok was the most one-note character out there--if
anyone in BW was a 'pretender to the name,' it was Scorpy. Inferno's
"Royalty!" schtick was funny at first but quickly got old.
...It probably doesn't help that most of the characters who *did* have
personalities and running gags got waaaay overexposed in the fandom. I
can't tell you how much bad fiction I've read (usually by obsessed
fangirls) where INFERNO TREATS MEGATRON LIKE A QUEEN AND WASPINATOR
DIES LOLOLOL. (A friend of mine used to date one of these fangirls,
so.)
> 2) Product Placement. You can sure tell when there's a new Beast
> Wars toy in stores, because this show hits you over the head with it.
> Rattrap goes out of his way to coin the term "Transmetal," which
> naturally everybody immediately adopts. Megatron describes the
> malfunctioning Silverbolt and Quickstrike as "Fuzors," a term which
> means absolutely nothing, but again, everybody (including them!)
> begins to use it. Megatron gets to assign a lot of names to
> characters, actually, since he also makes sure to name-drop Optimal
> Optimus (twice) as well as the Transmetal 2's. It's so jarring and
> disruptive and surely there must have been a more subtle way of using
> the Hasbro trademarks in dialogue without making viewers feel like
> they just got whacked with a Transmetal 2 mallet.
Sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't. "Quantum Surge" also
became such a buzzword that it was able to explain a lot of stupid
stuff I did with my own kid storylines. Why is Tarantulus RID Bruticus
now? Quantum surge!
> 1) Serious or Silly? This is perhaps the biggest problem that
> plagued the show—its narrative voice was completely confused. Was it
> an action-packed drama about warring robots from space, or a goofy
> slapstick cartoon? The answer, of course, is yes to both—at different
> times, or often at the same time. Humor was sometimes handled well
> when comic relief was used sparingly to lighten the mood after a deep
> and heavy sequence, but it was an unsettling juxtaposition when the
> bizarre silliness was interjected right in the middle of an otherwise
> serious moment. Perhaps the worst of these occurs during "Feral
> Scream," a dark story about mysterious disappearing monsters, during
> which Megatron starts spinning around like the Tazmanian Devil of
> Warner Brothers fame for no apparent reason. This is an egregious
> example, but there are dozens of others. I love serious cartoons
> (Aeon Flux, G.I. Joe) and I love goofy cartoons, too (Ninja Turtles,
> Phineas and Ferb) but it doesn't make sense to be both at the same
> time.
GI Joe is a serious cartoon? :P
I do agree with this.
> Next: Ten Things That Could Have Made G1 Better! (How will I ever
> narrow it down?)
At least you can acknowledge when things you love dearly have flaws
and aren't perfect. On that same note, are they all cartoon-related,
or will you be doing problems with the comic and toyline as well?
Because there's a lot of problems with the later toyline, if you ask
me.
Onslaught Six
> Megatron bathing with a
> rubber duck.
Oh, that was funny. At least, I thought so when I was ten.
Incidentally! The movies almost kind of have this same issue.
Onslaught Six
> I'm going to ask about the toys in general: weren't there too many of
> the buggers? One of y'all mentioned they picked the most potential
> shelf-warmers and put them into the show, and that makes sense, but
> there so many characters! Bears and wolves and birds of every
> description. Compare that with Animated's line.
Pretty sure that was me. And Animated isn't a good comparison, because
it did a lot of things differently. For one thing, it was running
concurrently to Universe which had a ton of other characters--meaning
that they might've produced just as many BW toys as they did Animated
and Universe combined. (In fact, probably a hell of a lot more,
considering BW only got two Ultras 'in a year.')
For another, Animated also had characters who would show up in several
price points. How many Bumblebees were there? And how many repaints?
Now take all of those and convert them into a new toy and character,
and that's what BW was like.
SteveD
>1) Serious or Silly?
What? Who doesn't like multiple simultaneous approaches? It's like
juggling! Or maybe cooking - a bit of this, a bit of that.
-SteveD
Uriel Ventris
If it's done well. If the mix is right, then it doesn't matter quite
so much. But Beast Wars was lumpy. Some bits had too much sugar ("The
Low Road"), some were too salty ("Transmutate"), and some were way too
cheesy ("Feral Scream").
Velvet Glove
Hell, for me, I'd prefer it if they'd ditched the CGI altogether and
did it in traditional animation. Of course, then, we wouldn't have
got the show, so.... Necessary evil.
> 9) Tigerhawk: Why?
It was a bit weird. Technically, Ravage also showed up only to be
killed a few episodes later, but he had a lot more story purpose.
> 6) Less Hasbro Interference.
This one presumably applies to every cartoon....
> 5) Less Fan Interference.
Oh, god yes. I don't care so much about the fannish in-jokes, but it
frustrated me no end how they started out having this big mystery of
the Vok, only to more or less abandon that plot in favour of the Ark.
Season Two was so brilliant, and Season Three such a disappointment.
Also, I wish they'd never got Simon Furman in to do the final
episode. There was a lot of mixing of G1 comic and cartoon that
didn't really make a whole lot of sense with either continuity.
> 4) Dead...Then Not.
To be fair, this applies to an awful lot of cartoons. Or else the way
some characters can survive all manner of explosions, falls and
injuries that kills others.
> 3) Size of the Cast.... With only five Maximals present at the start of
> the show, though, there was only so much character interaction
> possible, and character scenes got redundant pretty quick.
Yeah, I'm in with the group who loves the small cast. I also strongly
disagree with your last point. There is no limit to the amount of
character interaction possible. The only limit is the amount of
character depth the writers can produce. I think they did pretty
well.
> 1) Serious or Silly?
This doesn't bother me too much, mostly because it's so much a matter
of taste. By and large, I thought they handled the juxtaposition of
humour and drama pretty well, although they definitely went to
extremes on both from time to time. But in my opinion, this is
actually one of the show's strong points.
Also, I agree with Onslaught Six about G I Joe. Yes, it was generally
serious, but it did have some really silly moments in it.
Velvet Glove (Not included in this list: more Rhinox; less Tigatron/
Cheetor)
TigerMegatron
Yes, it was generally
serious, but it did have some really silly moments in it."
you must be referring to all those scenes that wayans brother ruined
as ripp cord.
there ought to be some kind of law that prevents "over the top silly/
annoying" actors from ruining every thing appear in via movies,TV
shows,cartoons,etc...
...also known as Thunder
> you must be referring to all those scenes that wayans brother ruined
> as ripp cord.
No, they meant the cartoon and the stupid stuff like giant robotic
mongooses and shit.
t.k.
Zobovor
> I still haven't seen the majority of Beast Machines, though.
It's not a horrible show. It also has plenty of overt G1 tie-ins,
like an episode that revists the hate plague from "The Return of
Optimus Prime" and an episode that reveals that the Oracle is "really"
Vector Sigma. We even see a duplicate of the original key to Vector
Sigma from the episode of the same name. I have the show on DVD now
and one day I do plan to sit down and watch it again. It's
interesting to look at it from a historical perspective, instead of
getting all up-in-arms like I did back when it was new. I think I've
finally learned that if there's a Transformers show I don't like, it
will just get replaced with something different, so I can afford to be
picky.
Zob
Zobovor
> On the topic of cut-content, what about "Dark Glass"? Did it even
> exist, or was it just a ghost?
The script was completed but Hasbro rejected it on the grounds that
the subject matter (Rattrap mourning the loss of Dinobot and
eventually trying to ressurect him) was too morbid for a kids' show.
Men In Black tried to get the rights to distribute it for their
TransCon convention, but they started bragging about it before they
secured the licensing rights so Hasbro pulled the whole thing. I e-
mailed Christy Marx about it afterwards and she said she had actually
been instructed by Hasbro not to distribute the script, so we will
most likely never see it.
> I'm going to ask about the toys in general: weren't there too many of
> the buggers? One of y'all mentioned they picked the most potential
> shelf-warmers and put them into the show, and that makes sense, but
> there so many characters!
At first, Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward just picked the toys they
liked the best and wrote those characters into the show. I've never
heard anything about them choosing pegwarmers, specifically, and I
doubt they'd have been afforded the opportunity since they had to
write the episodes well in advance of the toy releases in most cases
(when the pilot episode first aired, toys like Rhinox and Scorponok or
gorilla Primal or T. rex Megatron weren't even available yet).
> Well, you never know. It might be that Hasbro's interference might
> have improved a few things. We only know about the stuff they got
> wrong, and are up in arms about it.
That's a good point. Maybe we got a lopsided view of Hasbro's
involvement, but based on everything DiTillio and Forward related to
us about their communication with Hasbro, I just got the impression
that they were meddling with the show too much. Larry DiTillio had to
fight them to a standstill just to make Airazor a female character,
for example. The original plan was also to leave Optimus Primal dead
for a few more episodes and then finally bring him back in a surprise
moment later on, which I think would have worked much better than
bringing him back right away.
Zob
Zobovor
> Yeah, I'm in with the group who loves the small cast. I also strongly
> disagree with your last point. There is no limit to the amount of
> character interaction possible.
The characters on the show, particularly the Maximals, had such well-
developed personalities that you pretty much knew how they were going
to respond to any given scenario. Rhinox would say something ominous
and forboding, Rattrap would make a sarcastic remark, and Cheetor
would stand there drooling and go, "Ultra Gear!" I got so utterly
tired of Cheetor by the end of the show because we'd already seen so
much of him. One of the things I loved about G1 was that there were
so many different personality types, so we got to see things like old-
timer Ironhide reacting to hotshot punks like Slingshot, or musclehead
Brawn's disdain for intellectual Perceptor, which we never would have
gotten if they'd only featured five or six Autobots throughout the
whole show.
I will concede that the small cast did give us a chance to get to know
the characters far better than if, say, they just got dumped every TV
season to make room for that year's new toys. It just bugs me that,
for example, Airazor was the ONLY Beast Wars toy from 1997 who
actually made it into the show. Every single other toy from that year
got the shaft. An entire year's worth of non-show characters! It
boggles the mind.
> This doesn't bother me too much, mostly because it's so much a matter
> of taste. By and large, I thought they handled the juxtaposition of
> humour and drama pretty well, although they definitely went to
> extremes on both from time to time.
I guess, for me, they just went way over the top. There's funny, and
then there's downright goofy. Some of the wacky stuff they did on the
show was so preposterous that it ruined the dramatic tension
altogether, especially when characters behaved out-of-character just
for the sake of a gag.
Zob
Zobovor
> Yes. Though I think it was cut for time?
There are so many other scenes from that episode that could have been
cut for time without affecting the story content at all. I just think
it's funny that they picked the most important scene in the entire
episode to axe. (Also, it wasn't that long. It was, like, three
seconds.)
> The prototype was even named TM Inferno, wasn't it? I think it was
> only changed to Scavenger to protect the copyright.
He was even sold as Inferno in Europe. I can't imagine why they used
the name Scavenger at all, since it hadn't been used since G2 and it
wasn't currently being used. If Hasbro really valued the name and
wanted to keep it in active circulation, they could have used it for
any of the other new toys. The Transmetal toy was clearly intended to
be Inferno, though, so calling it anything but Inferno just makes no
sense.
> It doesn't help that a lot of characters were 'boring.' Airazor did
> absolutely nothing. She was just there to be a chick and to sell a
> cruddy toy. Scorponok was the most one-note character out there--if
> anyone in BW was a 'pretender to the name,' it was Scorpy. Inferno's
> "Royalty!" schtick was funny at first but quickly got old.
Inferno was such a badass when he was first introduced, and by the
third season he got reduced to this ridiculous parody of himself.
They should have left him dead, instead of turning him into another
Waspinator.
Zob
Uriel Ventris
> The script was completed but Hasbro rejected it on the grounds that
> the subject matter (Rattrap mourning the loss of Dinobot and
> eventually trying to ressurect him) was too morbid for a kids' show.
> Men In Black tried to get the rights to distribute it for their
> TransCon convention, but they started bragging about it before they
> secured the licensing rights so Hasbro pulled the whole thing. I e-
> mailed Christy Marx about it afterwards and she said she had actually
> been instructed by Hasbro not to distribute the script, so we will
> most likely never see it.
That's just it, I think I read a comic about "Dark Glass" quite a long
time ago, and I'm not sure if it wasn't just a fan effort. There
wasn't a lot of content in it.
> > Well, you never know. It might be that Hasbro's interference might
> > have improved a few things. We only know about the stuff they got
> > wrong, and are up in arms about it.
>
> That's a good point. Maybe we got a lopsided view of Hasbro's
> involvement, but based on everything DiTillio and Forward related to
> us about their communication with Hasbro, I just got the impression
> that they were meddling with the show too much. Larry DiTillio had to
> fight them to a standstill just to make Airazor a female character,
> for example. The original plan was also to leave Optimus Primal dead
> for a few more episodes and then finally bring him back in a surprise
> moment later on, which I think would have worked much better than
> bringing him back right away.
No-one likes "The Money". "The Money" always interferes, particularly
if they feel that something is contrary to their vision of their
product. Having Airrazor female was probably objected to because her
toy had been made already, and was male. They gave her boobs for the
TM version, as I recall.
Zobovor
wrote:
> That's just it, I think I read a comic about "Dark Glass" quite a long
> time ago, and I'm not sure if it wasn't just a fan effort. There
> wasn't a lot of content in it.
There was a fan comic that was posted online, yes. It was based on
the brief story synopsis that Larry DiTillio provided us, not the full
script, though. I thought it was good effort, even if they took a few
shortcuts (like recycling the same character model for Rampage and
Depth Charge).
> No-one likes "The Money". "The Money" always interferes, particularly
> if they feel that something is contrary to their vision of their
> product. Having Airrazor female was probably objected to because her
> toy had been made already, and was male. They gave her boobs for the
> TM version, as I recall.
Those aren't boobs, those are egg sacs. (Wait. That joke doesn't
make sense when you're not talking about Blackarachnia.)
Zob
Uriel Ventris
> There was a fan comic that was posted online, yes. It was based on
> the brief story synopsis that Larry DiTillio provided us, not the full
> script, though. I thought it was good effort, even if they took a few
> shortcuts (like recycling the same character model for Rampage and
> Depth Charge).
Ah, see, that makes sense. So, even if the episode didn't get made, is
it still canon? Or is it all down to your personal canon as to what
happened? As one person put it, Rampage's spark made contact with
Dinobot's when it was pierced, and that's why Dinobot II started
acting like Dinobot.
> Those aren't boobs, those are egg sacs. (Wait. That joke doesn't
> make sense when you're not talking about Blackarachnia.)
They're... extremely developed pectoral muscles for flapping?
Zobovor
wrote:
> Ah, see, that makes sense. So, even if the episode didn't get made, is
> it still canon? Or is it all down to your personal canon as to what
> happened? As one person put it, Rampage's spark made contact with
> Dinobot's when it was pierced, and that's why Dinobot II started
> acting like Dinobot.
I would say it's not canon just because it isn't content from an
actual, finished episode. I would also say that it really needs to be
in there somewhere, even unofficially, for the overall framework of
the story to make more sense (Dinobot uploads something to the Axalon
computer in "Bad Spark," which we would have learned later was a copy
of his core consciousness, but this important plot point is left
unaddressed on the show because "Dark Glass" never aired). Stuff like
this, I like to refer to it as pseudo-canon.
I don't think any amount of retconning can really explain away what
happened to Dinobot 2, though. Not only does he spontaneously gain
the memories of the original Dinobot, but he remembers stuff that
happened after Dinobot died, which just shouldn't be possible.
Zob
Onslaught Six
> The script was completed but Hasbro rejected it on the grounds that
> the subject matter (Rattrap mourning the loss of Dinobot and
> eventually trying to ressurect him) was too morbid for a kids' show.
> Men In Black tried to get the rights to distribute it for their
> TransCon convention, but they started bragging about it before they
> secured the licensing rights so Hasbro pulled the whole thing. I e-
> mailed Christy Marx about it afterwards and she said she had actually
> been instructed by Hasbro not to distribute the script, so we will
> most likely never see it.
I don't think that's what happened--about why it was pulled, I mean. I
remember Mainframe saying something along the lines of "There wasn't
enough action in it to begin with." I think the fan-comic that Uriel
mentions below added a subplot involving Depth Charge to add action.
> At first, Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward just picked the toys they
> liked the best and wrote those characters into the show. I've never
> heard anything about them choosing pegwarmers, specifically, and I
> doubt they'd have been afforded the opportunity since they had to
> write the episodes well in advance of the toy releases in most cases
> (when the pilot episode first aired, toys like Rhinox and Scorponok or
> gorilla Primal or T. rex Megatron weren't even available yet).
This was me doing some interjection. I noticed that the toys who made
it onto the show were, at least in my opinion, kind of lesser than
some of the toys who didn't make it, and perhaps this was a calculated
effort.
Onslaught Six
> I will concede that the small cast did give us a chance to get to know
> the characters far better than if, say, they just got dumped every TV
> season to make room for that year's new toys. It just bugs me that,
> for example, Airazor was the ONLY Beast Wars toy from 1997 who
> actually made it into the show. Every single other toy from that year
> got the shaft. An entire year's worth of non-show characters! It
> boggles the mind.
Inferno was also from 1997. Also, I think several of the '96 toys
must've still been sold in '97, if only because of just how 'little'
TF stuff was released then. (Seriously, look at the numbers. I think
Hasbro has released just as much TF product in the last year or two
alone than they did in the entirety of BW.)
Zobovor
>> An entire year's worth of non-show characters! It
>> boggles the mind.
>
> Inferno was also from 1997.
I'll grant you that he was intended as a 1997 product, but technically
he came out at the tail-end of 1996, so now I'm going to stick my
tongue out at you. Thppbbt.
Zob
Zobovor
> I don't think that's what happened--about why it was pulled, I mean. I
> remember Mainframe saying something along the lines of "There wasn't
> enough action in it to begin with."
That does seem to be the official reason that Claster offered, after
the fact. I'm just going by what Christy Marx told me when I asked
her about it.
Zob
Onslaught Six
> I'll grant you that he was intended as a 1997 product, but technically
> he came out at the tail-end of 1996, so now I'm going to stick my
> tongue out at you. Thppbbt.
Here we get into the age-old December debate. The product intended for
January of the next year always ends up on shelves at the tail end of
December. Sure, Skids hit in late '84, but he's a January '85 toy.
Bludgeon was a January '10 toy, but he started hitting back in
December or even late November.
It's just a thing.
robo_rob
It's over : (
Ok, sure, it's been around ten years, but I still miss it.
Uriel Ventris
I felt the same way about "The Last Airbender".
"Beast Wars" could have used an additional few episodes, maybe even a
season to wrap things up. As it was, it was very rushed. But I suppose
we should be grateful they were able to wrap up the overall story at
all.
"The Last Airbender" ended when it should have though, and I can't
imagine it being improved by the addition of extra episodes or seasons.
Paradox .OS
wrote:
> I felt the same way about "The Last Airbender".
>
> "Beast Wars" could have used an additional few episodes, maybe even a
> season to wrap things up. As it was, it was very rushed. But I suppose
> we should be grateful they were able to wrap up the overall story at
> all.
>
> "The Last Airbender" ended when it should have though, and I can't
> imagine it being improved by the addition of extra episodes or seasons.
Beast Wars _could_ have benefited from a few more episodes,
particularly in late season 3. Nemesis might have fared better as a 3-
episode arc, like The Agenda. Hell, an entire fourth season of Beast
Wars would have been pretty sweet.
One way or another though, it's over, but what's around does kick ass.
Enough ass that it does seriously warrant some more attention. I'd
love to see a continuation/re-invention/goddamn anything halfway
decent of BW.
-Dox
Uriel Ventris
\> Beast Wars _could_ have benefited from a few more episodes,
> particularly in late season 3. Nemesis might have fared better as a 3-
> episode arc, like The Agenda. Hell, an entire fourth season of Beast
> Wars would have been pretty sweet.
"More episodes" or "different episodes from what we got"?
"Cutting Edge" (as someone pointed out) was unnecessary, but "Feral
Scream" should have been trimmed, as well as BA's entire TM2 arc.
Having more Depth Charge would've been nice, a bit more background so
his death would've had more impact.
Tigerhawk's entire characterisation revolved around people recognizing
him as an amalgam of Tigatron and Airrazor, but it wasn't there. He
came, did cool stuff, and then got blown up by a really old ship.
Gustavo Wombat
> Inferno was such a badass when he was first introduced, and by the
> third season he got reduced to this ridiculous parody of himself.
> They should have left him dead, instead of turning him into another
> Waspinator.
Inferno in season three was just wasted potential.
By the third season, he was old technology -- outclassed by
Transmetals and Transmetal 2's. For someone whose entire identity
started as bad-ass (and dim) fighter, he should have had an entire
character arc though season 3, where he recognizes that he just isn't
very tough anymore and that he isn't Megatron's favorite. He should
have been jealous of Dinobot II, he should have been hurt by
Megatron's rejection of him, and he should have been a tragic
character.
In a lot of ways, it should have been Inferno hitting middle age -- no
longer as strong or quick (compared to everyone else) as he once was,
struggling to remain effective, and ultimately failing because he
doesn't have other skills to make up for it. He's not a great
strategist, he isn't going to be winning any battles because of his
experience, and he's not bright enough to figure out a way to upgrade
himself. He's the high school football hero whose life peaked at 17.
He could have been contrasted with Rhinox -- who also never got
upgraded and went from being a major Maximal bad-ass in the first
season, a mediocre Maximal in the second season, and just focused on
engineering in the third season.
Now, perhaps a character arc about middle age might not have resonated
with the target audience of 8-12 year olds, but that's also about the
age where kids are beginning to realize that they really can't be
anything they want to be -- that while their dreams might have no
limits, their reality almost certainly does -- so parts of that arc
might have resonated with them.
Gustavo!
Gustavo Wombat
> 10) Shadows.
Sure, it looks pretty dated now, but it was good for the time.
> difficult to render shadows for the characters. Fans assumed that the
> CGI guys could just click a button or something and a shadow would
> appear in the right spot, but in fact it was treated as a separate
> "character" that had to be animated on its own.
Actually, that's not true. Shadows should be calculated by some form
of ray-tracing, which is what Mainframe did in Beast Machines (see the
cases where the beams of light from Vehicon headlights and flaming
exhausts cast shadows...). Done right, it should be pick a light
source, and press a button and wait. It is, however, computationally
expensive, and they may have experimented with cheaper tricks...
> 9) Tigerhawk: Why?
Tigerhawk was a deus ex machina. There was no way he could have
survived in the Beast Wars universe for long without completely and
fundamentally altering it. And, I think that he was more interesting
as this weird near force of nature than he would have been as a
regular character.
But, he had to die.
I would have much rather the death be part of his nature -- the
overpowered fused spark burning his body away or something -- so it
would have been detected and expected. All the Maximals would have had
one last chance to say good bye to Airrazor and Tigatron, or what
there was of them, before he burns out.
There's no reason the Vok would have had to make a weapon that would
last forever.
> The toy was obviously rushed, with such
> features as an aborted, undocumented vehicle mode (complete with
> vestigal wheels that served no purpose), but if Hasbro had changed
> their minds about the character appearing on TV, then why bother to
> produce the toy at all? What was the point?
Nifty toy, though, even with weird wheels.
> 8) The Infamous Cut Scene.
No argument.
> 6) Less Hasbro Interference
Hasbro interference also got us the quantum surge, and took care of
season two character upgrades in one quick moment, rather than
stretching it out painfully.
> 4) Dead...Then Not.
I would have really liked a scene or two of little spider flashlight
things gathering Tarantulas's parts.
> 3) Size of the Cast.
Completely disagree. I'd rather get to know a few characters really
well than have a bunch of one note characters. Animated handled the
balance better, with a slightly larger cast.
> 2) Product Placement.
Goes with the territory. It's a toy show.
> 1) Serious or Silly? This is perhaps the biggest problem that
> plagued the show—its narrative voice was completely confused.
I generally agree. But, would Waspinator be the character we all know
and love if he didn't have a comical near-death every time we saw him?
Some of the slapstick was placed very jarringly though. The Inferno-
hides-behind-2-inch-thick-tree moment leaps out at me.
A few other things, continuing with your numbering:
0) The Vok storyline never got any resolution, and got shoved out of
the way by the storyline stolen from the Terminator. I liked the ties
to G1, and I thought they were used very effectively but the Vok were
more interesting and potentially more original.
-1) Dinobot II's betrayal of Megatron needed something more leading up
to it. It just doesn't work.
-2) Rampage needed either more consistent characterization, or to flip
from berserker to morose inside a single episode. As it was, he seems
to alternate between two personalities depending on the episode, and
it looks like poor story editing. I can accept it as two sides of the
same personality, but it would be better to show that.
-3) Depth Charge needed a bit less Batman.
-4) Airrazor needed a personality.
Gustavo!
SteveD
<Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Now, perhaps a character arc about middle age might not have resonated
>with the target audience of 8-12 year olds, but that's also about the
>age where kids are beginning to realize that they really can't be
>anything they want to be -- that while their dreams might have no
>limits, their reality almost certainly does -- so parts of that arc
>might have resonated with them.
It's also a life lesson - learning how to be good at more than one thing
can keep you popular in the long run. And the quarterback won't always be
the quarterback.
I wouldn't have minded Inferno being sucked into an 'upgrade' experiment
by one of the spiders and coming out as TM Scavenger
-SteveD
Onslaught Six
> Now, perhaps a character arc about middle age might not have resonated
> with the target audience of 8-12 year olds, but that's also about the
> age where kids are beginning to realize that they really can't be
> anything they want to be -- that while their dreams might have no
> limits, their reality almost certainly does -- so parts of that arc
> might have resonated with them.
Only if you believe in that sort of thing. I'm twenty and still stupid
enough to think I can make a living as an industrial musician.
ShadowWing
"Zobovor" wrote
>There was a fan comic that was posted online, yes. It was based on
>the brief story synopsis that Larry DiTillio provided us, not the full
>script, though. I thought it was good effort, even if they took a few
>shortcuts (like recycling the same character model for Rampage and
>Depth Charge).
Just out of curiosity I decided to check and see if someone else might
have put it up somewhere, like what was done with Macromasters. No luck (and
now I wish I had kept the digital files after I printed it out), but I did
find this:
http://www.tfcog.net/forums/index.php?topic=964.0
http://wishmasterinrlyeh.deviantart.com/gallery/
Someone's working on a video version.
Ka Faraq Gatri
<Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>-4) Airrazor needed a personality.
Airrazor had a personality - she was kind of like Kathryn Janeway
might have been as a junior officer. Confident in her abilities,and
able to work with the team without undermining or showing up the
others, unlike BA with the Preds. Of course, that was due to the
differing team philosophies as much as the women themselves. Airrazor
had a leader that valued all of his teammates, while Megatron
considered all of his troops (with the possible exception of Dinobot)
pawns, even the highly skilled ones like BA. When BA switched sides,
she was still . . . independantly-minded, but slightly more of a team
player.
Frankly, I always found Airrazor the more interesting of the two.
Scott
interesting and that Airazor was just Tigertron's girl friend.
Uriel Ventris
> Airrazor had a personality - she was kind of like Kathryn Janeway
> might have been as a junior officer. Confident in her abilities,and
> able to work with the team without undermining or showing up the
> others, unlike BA with the Preds. Of course, that was due to the
> differing team philosophies as much as the women themselves. Airrazor
> had a leader that valued all of his teammates, while Megatron
> considered all of his troops (with the possible exception of Dinobot)
> pawns, even the highly skilled ones like BA. When BA switched sides,
> she was still . . . independantly-minded, but slightly more of a team
> player.
> Frankly, I always found Airrazor the more interesting of the two.
There were glimmers of a personality there, admittedly, but she never
really got an episode to herself, like Tigatron or Rattrap or... just
about everyone else. Character moments, but never an episode about
her. Even her intro episode was more Cheetor and Black Arachnia.
Onslaught Six
> Airrazor had a personality - she was kind of like Kathryn Janeway
> might have been as a junior officer. Confident in her abilities,and
> able to work with the team without undermining or showing up the
> others, unlike BA with the Preds.
...Yeah, so, boring.
> Frankly, I always found Airrazor the more interesting of the two.
...how? She does nothing. Ever.
TigerMegatron
maid.
Ka Faraq Gatri
<onslau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On May 6, 9:22?am, Ka Faraq Gatri <kfga...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Airrazor had a personality - she was kind of like Kathryn Janeway
>> might have been as a junior officer. Confident in her abilities,and
>> able to work with the team without undermining or showing up the
>> others, unlike BA with the Preds.
>
>...Yeah, so, boring.
>
>> ? ? Frankly, I always found Airrazor the more interesting of the two.
>
>...how? She does nothing. Ever.
She got stuff done in her limited screen time. She successfully raided
the Darksyde at least once, and knocked Blackie on her spinnarets in
the S2 opener. I always thought there was a lot of ignored potential
there.