Use of the "J" word

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Nana Pono

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Aloha fellow JOEheads,

As an Asian-American and a board member of our local Asian-American Journalists
Association chapter, political correctness as it pertains to Asians in the
Sandbox is greatly appreciated.

I've run across the use of the "J" word several times in my 15 months in the
box and have held my tongue as have most of us who are sensitive, to some
degree or another, to the word.

We in the newsgroup come from different backgrounds and cultures. I respect
that so I'm apt not to bash everyone who chooses to use the "J" word or
anything else others might find derogatory, sexist or otherwise offensive. We
come here to talk JOE and that's our common denominator. Other discussion
should be left outside, I feel.

But this one time, I'll say something since it's become a point of discussion.
We are very careful here to use "AA" when referring to African-American figs. I
choose to be respectful to other ethnicities the same way. Won't you? :-)

Regards,
Gordon Pang
(a Hawaii JOEhead and the son of Chinese immigrants who fled Communist rule)

MisterToy

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Here, here! I agree 100% with Mr. Pang.
Regards,
Eric Rodriguez (a Puerto Rican JOEhead born and raised in the Big Apple!)


RudyPAN

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Nanopono wrote:

>But this one time, I'll say something since it's become a point of
>discussion.
>We are very careful here to use "AA" when referring to African-American figs.
>I
>choose to be respectful to other ethnicities the same way. Won't you? :-)

May I suggest "AJ" for "Axis Japan" to denote a WWII Japanese figure, and "AG"
for "Axis German". Comes across much better that "Jap" and "Kraut".

Later, Rudy

RJohn68217

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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>As an Asian-American and a board member of our local Asian-American
>Journalists
>Association chapter, political correctness as it pertains to Asians in the
>Sandbox is greatly appreciated.

(snip)
Great post Gordon...I think you struck just the right chord.
best-
Roy
"I was wearing an onion on my belt, as was the style at the time...."
Abe Simpson
Visit the Post Exchange featuring the NEW CENTURIONS
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Crater/6325/
and tell em ABE SENT YA~

RJohn68217

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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>
>May I suggest "AJ" for "Axis Japan" to denote a WWII Japanese figure, and
>"AG"
>for "Axis German". Comes across much better that "Jap" and "Kraut".
>
>Later, Rudy


Great, so what do we call the eye-ties?
You've GOTTA know I'm jokin.....

MistaMoose

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Well said.

Greg
(descendant of Japanese-Americans who were interned in WW2)

>As an Asian-American and a board member of our local Asian-American
>Journalists
>Association chapter, political correctness as it pertains to Asians in the
>Sandbox is greatly appreciated.
>

>I've run across the use of the "J" word several times in my 15 months in the
>box and have held my tongue as have most of us who are sensitive, to some
>degree or another, to the word.
>
>We in the newsgroup come from different backgrounds and cultures. I respect
>that so I'm apt not to bash everyone who chooses to use the "J" word or
>anything else others might find derogatory, sexist or otherwise offensive. We
>come here to talk JOE and that's our common denominator. Other discussion
>should be left outside, I feel.
>

>But this one time, I'll say something since it's become a point of
>discussion.
>We are very careful here to use "AA" when referring to African-American figs.
>I
>choose to be respectful to other ethnicities the same way. Won't you? :-)
>

iLYa

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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RudyPAN wrote...

>May I suggest "AJ" for "Axis Japan" to denote a WWII Japanese figure, and
"AG"
>for "Axis German". Comes across much better that "Jap" and "Kraut".
>
>Later, Rudy


OK, but Jap Miller,the guy that owns the local garage isn't going to like
the switch to Axis Japan Miller.
I could be wrong, but he didn't much care for V-Day, when it was VJ-Day that
brought him home umpteen decades ago.

On this V-Day thing of Clinton's.... I'm all for sensitivity and such, but
when they start re-writing the language of the past so as to not offend
anyone, than I have had enough. Imagine the day when vets from the 442nd
(like Dan's father) are oppressed in their use of the term 'buddha-head' or
Nissei, because some future generation finds it distasetful.

By the way... did anyone ever hook Frank up with the Joe???

iLYa

iLYa

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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RJohn68217 wrote...

>Great, so what do we call the eye-ties?
>You've GOTTA know I'm jokin.....

I am OUTRAGED!!!!!!!!!! Being that my maternal grandparents were born in
Italy and emigrated to the US just before Mussolini took hold (dunno what
that makes me), I am SHOCKED at the level of insensitivity personally
levelled at my family just now by Grandpa Onion. (BTW, I thought it was
"Itis")

I demand an immediate apology... ooooh, I'm so mad.... I demand a letter
from the President making this all better now (but please... no cigar)

...and a medal would be nice too... no, make it TWO medals and a Vintage
GIjOE dog tag.

... and I demand that reparations be paid... a few dozen Joes should do
nicely... but they gotta be C-10!!!

.... and I want this all done on Columbus Day... which will no longer be
observed arbitrarily on a Monday and the name must be changed to Cristoforo
Colombo Day... with pasta and white sauce served FREE in restaurants across
the country (except in Pizza Hut). I haven't had gnoches in a while, so
those would be nice!

I used to think I liked it here in the Sandbox, but I used to think that I
was going to grow up and marry Farrah Fawcett too, and we all see how that
turned out!

Roy... I may never read another one of your posts again before tomorrow!

iLYa... insulted in Dixie.

hp...@webtv.net

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Great post Gordon! Long overdue and well said. Doesn't seem to be
asking too much - a little common sense.
Hank


Chris

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Well said!!!
Chris

Robert Sorrels

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Common sense is a VERY uncommon thing today...
Rob
--
ITFC #0009 "I'm doing the best I can, honestly!"
Visit my GIjOE, VW Beetle, and other hobbies website at:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/3711


hp...@webtv.net wrote in message
<29086-36...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>...

DWhitwo254

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Well since I don't want to type out Japanese all the time...
can i just use the abbrev.
Jap. <-----see the period afterward which denotes an abbreviated form of a
word. If thats a problem then I would be offended if when we discuss joes...we
don't use the connotation...white anglo saxon gi joe from now on. Otherwise I
might get confused.

Course I always thought people were talking about JAP's (jewish american
princesses)
:)

Not trying to be politically correct...just saying my piece.

GO JOE!!
david


Badanoff

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Speaking as a second generation American who's grandfather fled Germany
because of the Reich's rise to power, I personally hold no grudge nor bear
any animosity to anyone who refers to the WWII era German Soldier as a
kraut. How could I possibly be offended? That would require me to share in
that nations culture and history, both good and bad. It would require that I
take responsibility and carry the burden of shame for the deeds of a country
that I have never been to, nor hold any allegiance to, did in the 1930's
and 40's. Why? Simply because my grandfather came from there?

No, no. That simply won't do. ? I carry a burden of shame for those
deeds, but not because of distant, obscure national ties. Just in
principle.

I'm sick of political correctness. I will respect your request to be
referred to as an Asian American, Nano, if that is what you wish, and let
that be a reflection of my own individual character. But I will not be held
to some kind of "across the board" standard by anyone. The Japanese, as a
country that attacked a sovereign nation without provocation, was referred
by the allied nations as 'Japs'. That is part of the historical record. It
is short for Japanese and nothing more. I could see your point if the
common phrase being thrown about the Sandbox were "Yellow Menace", another
broad and common reference of the period. That is indeed racist, derogatory
and in poor taste all around. But remember that we currently, after all,
use similar terms for other nationalities. Aussies, Canucks, Brits (or
'Limey Bastards', as we affectionately referred to them in the Navy) and
lastly (gasp) Yankee or Yanks.

As a man who has never used the word "Jap" in his life, even though I lived
in Japan for almost two years, in reference to anything, much less in this
newsgroup, it might seem odd that I should even respond to your post. But
concessions in the usage of speech offends me on principle alone, and I
simply cannot allow it to go unchallenged. Any suppression, politely
requested or otherwise, of speech, no matter how good the intentions, is
far more sinister in its repercussions than the original intent of the
speaker.

Allow me to make one last point. The term"Asian-American" is a very broad
statement. It's about as broad a statement as saying "European-American".
It doesn't really say anything at all.

Badanoff
("__________")-American Second Generation
Who's Father served in both theaters of World War II
And who fears ignorance less than good intentions.

nana...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990311070251...@ng14.aol.com...
>Aloha fellow JOEheads,

Bawlz001

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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I'm sorry if I am about to offend anyone but i gotta say this... Political,
fashonable, aerodynamical, etc, correctness is all a big, steaming pile of crap
in the Yukon in winter. I find it all to be nothing but a hinderance on my
constitutional right of Freedom of Speach. It seems as though everyone (well
most likely not everyone) doesnt want to hear the opinions of everyone else and
trying to make "standards" for people to talk in a specific way as to not
offend anyone else is... wrong. Now please dont get me wrong I appreciate
other peoples feeling the same as the next guy. But tailoring the way I talk,
act, or even appear in public to suit other peoples tastes/dislikes is not
something I do or advertise. I will talk/act/appear any way I want to and if
it is a problem with anyone then you gotta just deal with it, go away, or learn
to like it because it is the way I am. Ofcourse this is just my OPINION I
could be wrong.


-Steve Houk
DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT!
SP#0015

Jimbob1

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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WWII is over. Hasbro's toy wasn't named "Jap Soldier". Perhaps if you
intend to invoke the feel of that era, you might refer to the soldier that
way-- like an actor might say if he were in a movie representing that
period. However, outside that context, today the term is offensive to many
people of that nationality, and those whose relatives fought on both sides
of the war. It's an anachronistic usage that only serves as fodder for
arguments about Political Correctness (and as an abbreviation!).

This thread seems to be more about espousing the principles of "Politically
Correct Backlash" than about the specific issue of seeing the word
"Japanese" spelled out. There's an irony here-- Seems like some people are
more concerned about the ill-defined phrase than they are about just
respecting what people are sensitive about! Weird.

Take profanity for example: Are we being politically correct by
discouraging it here? Should we allow this concession to restrain our usage
of speech? Shouldn't we condemn Hasbro for rewriting the dictionary, and
proudly refer to Joe as a "doll"? Accommodating sensitivities about
sexual roles doesn't seem like a proper non-PC thing to do!

Euphemisms and subtlety of meaning were not invented with the coining of the
phrase "Political Correctness". Respecting sensitivities has a long
history with language, and it serves a real purpose. It's not a Liberal or
Conservative issue. Furthermore, language is not a pure, static, and
unchanging thing which needs to be protected. It's meant to serve us, not
vice-versa.

If you prefer to use the word "Jap", you should be aware that the word is
offensive to many people today. This is a fact. Practically speaking, you
can't change that, no matter how hard you argue the "PC-Backlash"
point-of-view. This is just good old-fashioned common sense. Of course, no
one is saying you can't use it if you want to. (Loop back to start of this
paragraph.)

Simple, huh?

Jimbob

Jimbob-Wan's Image Depot http://www.flash.net/~jimbob1/
* * * Remove "_n_o_s_p_a_m_" from the address to reply * * *

Badanoff wrote in message ...

hp...@webtv.net

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Bravo, Steve! Do you consider not calling a black person the "n" word
too pc? You call people whatever you want to their faces and not from
behind a computer screen and that would really be a blow for free
speech! It's pretty funny to see a discussion group about toys become a
free speech forum. But it is a means to hurt people without any
personal accountability and if that's your thing, great.
It seems petty and pathetic but hey, that's just my opinion. Continue
on with your noble cause freedom fighter!
Hank


Lee Gray

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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I've read most of the posts in this thread and it boils down to the two
obvious sides:

1. "I can say what I [insert epithet] well please"
2. "Please, let's try not to offend".

I've been sorta on the fence with this issue. I generally think PC is
hooey... BUT, although some have stated "You wouldn't say 'Jap' to a
person's face, would you?", it seems no one has come right out and stated
the obvious analogy: "You wouldn't say 'nigger' to someone's face, would
you?" Heck, you probably wouldn't post that one either. I doubt 'Jap' has
reached that level of ugliness in our language but then, I'm not Japanese,
so I really don't know. I know someone posted that "we carefully call them
AA Joes", but coming right out and saying that other insulting word kinda
drives the point home, I think.

Again, I really hate how overboard the PC camp has gone in general, but to
me it's pretty simple how not to use potentially insulting terms. I'm a
white, heterosexual male and I wouldn't call my black friends 'niggers,' my
gay friends 'fags' or my chinese friends 'chinks.' Joking with someone
you're close to is one thing; shouting it out in the streets (or the
Sandbox) is quite different. I don't have thin skin and neither do most of
my friends... but come on, how hard can this be to understand? It's not PC,
it's just common courtesy.

Stepping off soap box,

Lee


iLYa

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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>hp...@webtv.net wrote ...

>Bravo, Steve! Do you consider not calling a black person the "n" word
>too pc?

Ya gotta remember one important difference... the United States was not
attacked by a nation of people who happened to be from the continent of
Africa.The US was attacked by an Asian country... Japan. For a lot of
folks, that makes it both personal and unique. Even Germany did not
directly attack US territory in the manner that Japan did. Bottomline is,
it strikes a nerve and a lot of people just don't feel like they owe the
Japanese much sensitivity.

On December 7th 1941(Tokyo time), the Japanese (military planners of the
Hawaiian Operation) were not pressed with concern for how Americans were
going to feel about them the day after tomorrow. A lot of Americans sort of
think, why should we care what they feel now.

The above is not neccesarily my opinion. Just an exploration of some of the
things I have heard and witnessed in the course of my life.


Now this is my opinion... the Chinese and Koreans have slang and derogatory
slurs for the Japanese far worse than anything heard in the English
language. Are the Chinese rascists or insensitive? Anyone with a
Sino-Nissei 20th Century history under their belts care to take the Koreans
and the Chinese to task. Should they watch their language?

Ah... that's different, huh.

A modern day example of Imperial Japan before 1945 might be the present
regime in Iraq. Not too many Arab neighbors, least of all Kuwait, would shed
a tear the day Hussein's government folds up shop.


"J-word, "N-word", "K-Word"... pretty soon we won't be able to say sh*t and
we'll need a new alphabet


iLYa


Tony Mosley

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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iLYa wrote:
>
<snip>

> .... and I want this all done on Columbus Day... which will no longer be
> observed arbitrarily on a Monday and the name must be changed to Cristoforo
> Colombo Day... with pasta and white sauce served FREE in restaurants across
> the country (except in Pizza Hut). I haven't had gnoches in a while, so
> those would be nice!
>
> iLYa... insulted in Dixie.

As 1/8th American Indian how am I supposed to feel about this :)? While
ol' Chris might not have done the needs to my ancestors the follow ons
sure did a number on my ancestors :(!

Tony...could be insulted in Dixie if he chose to be!

Keith Mayo

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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Here's my take on it.

In the ORIGINAL post, the author was talking about a figure representing
a WWII Axis Power figure, who at the time were refered to as Japs. The
war is over now and we're snuggled up real close with the government of
Japan and that is a good thing NOW. I think it would be wrong to call a
Japanese person "Jap" today. The fact remains that the figure is
question represenst NOT the Japanese people of TODAY. It represents a
WWII soldier, known the world 'round as a Jap. WWII German sodiers were
refered to as Nazis (yeah, yeah Frederick. I know they weren't all
Nazis. I'm talking about what the "average" person thought/thinks). If a
company puts a MODERN German soldier on the market, it would be
incorrect to call it a "Nazi" figure. A WWII German figure will be
called a Nazi by most people. Will this piss off any folks of German
desent? I doubt it because we're talking about someone from a war fought
over 50 years ago!

Would I call my Japanese American neighbor a Jap? No, because he isn't.

I'm waiting for the day when it will be considerd un-PC to call
Southerners "redneck", make fun of Christians, make fun of fat people,
civil servants, people who work minimum wage jobs, the elderly
etc..........................................................................................................................

Where does it end?

Big Daddy K
Who happens to be a Mick, Jarhead, "coloricly challenged", ex cripple
who doesn't care WHAT you call me, as long as you call me for supper!


The Juriets

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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I STRONGLY object to being called a "Canuck" !! Anyone who knows hockey knows
that being called a (Vancouver)"Canuck" is the WORST sort of insult. Instead,
please use the equivalent, but less insulting "usually-playoffs
challenged-overpaid-underperforming-jock" !!!!!!! ;-)

B&C Arthur wrote:

> Jimbob1 wrote in message <
> (snips)This is just good old-fashioned common sense. Of course, no


> >one is saying you can't use it if you want to. (Loop back to start of this
> >paragraph.)
> >
> >Simple, huh?
> >
> >Jimbob
>

> Well said Jimbob.
>
> I have always felt that we need to keep historical context in mind when we
> use words and tell stories. When I explain to my kids about someone being
> called a Jap, I explain that it was a term used during the second world war
> to describe the enemy - propaganda needed an enemy to rally the people
> against and move to action - someone to be hated and bombed into the ground.
> Fight the good fight. It was a total war and you reduce the enemy to the
> lowest life forms.
>
> Look at the artwork of the war - the Japanese soldier with thick glasses and
> large teeth stabbing an American in the back, the dirty Jewish theif
> stealing from a German family, the evil German listening to our
> conversations and killing innocent children with his evil submarines. We
> must keep it in context and explain what the hate means to our kids.
>
> The bottom line is a question of Intent vs. Impact - what is the intent of
> the person saying and what is the impact on the person listening?
>
> Impact carries the weight and we should agree that it is reasonable to
> expect that a person in the 1990's will know that saying Jap or Nip will
> have a different impact then saying Canuk or Yank.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Curt.

--
============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

The "Juryman" says:
More Joes = More Fun !!!!
SP # 14 (Think before you flame)

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================


Joeguy

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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I wasn't going to say anything, but ...

I completely understand where you're coming from here. If we're talking
about Asian Americans or even the Japanese people right now...today, then
you are very correct. That race of people should be treated with the same
respect we all want and referred to as Japanese, Japanese Americans or Asian
Americans. However, if we're talking about a 12" figure that was created by
a toy company to recreate a soldier from the WWII era of the Japanese
Empire, then there's nothing wrong with the "J" word as you say. That's
what the American soldiers called them then. It was a different era. The
Japanese were ruthless soldiers...and my uncles risked their lives defeating
them. I think and hope we're on the same channel here. Let's not rewrite
history here just because it's no longer politically correct.

Mark

Nana Pono wrote

Joeguy

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Mar 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/11/99
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ItsMYGIJoe

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
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Lee wrote:

<<<It's not PC,
it's just common courtesy.>>>

Damn, well said.


Sean


PS- Remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address to reply.

The Arrow

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
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Y'know how this politicaly corerect stuff came about??

Quite innocently, in fact.
Its acknowledged that the the vast majority of the english- speaking
population DOES NOT have a good command of the language.

Most people use only 2000--5000 words from the english language in typical
conversation or in writing.
The english language has IN EXCESS of 500,000 words, with addtional commonly
used terms, words and phrases from other laguages,pushing the total number
over 750,000 words.
We use LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of our spoken laguage in our vocabulary.

Its no wonder so many people have dificulty expressing themselves with any
great precision.
And that is the key--precision.
Politically correct speach started as a attempt to put forth a more PRECISE
way of communicating.
Unfortunately,since this drive originated within the echelons of government
and bureaucratic organizations it was quickly corrupted.

--Ken

B&C Arthur

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
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Jimbob1 wrote in message <
(snips)This is just good old-fashioned common sense. Of course, no

>one is saying you can't use it if you want to. (Loop back to start of this
>paragraph.)
>
>Simple, huh?
>
>Jimbob

CaptCBoard

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
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Well--

Interesting line going here. Gordon, I understand what you are driving at.
For the most part, I agree. But consider the following...

As has been pointed out a couple of times here, there are acceptable slang
terms (Canuk, Brit, etc) and unacceptable, which I don't have to list. They
all came about for differing reasons. The acceptable ones came about because
of the need to abbreviate, mostly. The unacceptable came about because of
strife and hatred. This being a military-oriented forum, we mostly deal in
what pertains to soldiers (being the generic term for those in any part of the
military, those who fight, be it in the air, on the sea or land), and
therefore, the history of soldiers and their wars. And a part of that involves
using the 'parlance' of the time or era. I can agree with someone using the
term "Jap" to describe a soldier from the Japanese army during WWII, but using
it to refer to someone today, no. The Japs bombed Pearl Harbor, but the
Japanese really shook up the world of automobile manufacturing!!

(Predictable disclaimer coming in...) Personally, I don't use any slang term
for anyone. I just don't find them something my tongue has a need to form.
Especially Canuk. I don't know where that came from, but I just don't like the
sound of it. However, in the context of history, using a term to make
reference to a particular time can be useful. Jap is really the word in
contention here, and Kraut to a certain extent. The N-word (and I just can't
even type that...) shouldn't even be compared to either of those since that
word is used exclusively by those who hate, to express their hate and distain.


At one time, Jap (and Nip) was used for hate, but the hate came about because
of an event, not a skin color. The same goes for Kraut (and Jerry). Please
note that the N-word describes a race, while the WWII slang refers to
governments. And also note, neither government survives today. True, the
countries still bear the same names, but the governments that caused the
trouble vanished in 1945.

I'm not saying this as a way of telling Gordon to be less-sensitive. It is
just that as time passes, the stigma attached to using abbreviations for
certain nationalities will become less and less, and the use of them is no
longer hostile. In time, Jap may become as acceptable as Brit because its use
is one of casual fondness, instead of hatred.

Remember, Brit was used negatively during our Revolutionary War period!!


Scott
CaptC...@AOL.com

The Sixth-Scale Guy. If its not Sixth-Scale, its just plain wrong!

Bawlz001

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
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Hank wrote:

>Bravo, Steve! Do you consider not calling a black person the "n" word

>too pc? You call people whatever you want to their faces and not from
>behind a computer screen and that would really be a blow for free
>speech! It's pretty funny to see a discussion group about toys become a
>free speech forum. But it is a means to hurt people without any
>personal accountability and if that's your thing, great.
>It seems petty and pathetic but hey, that's just my opinion. Continue
>on with your noble cause freedom fighter!
> Hank
>
>
>

I sense some EXTREAM sarcasm here but none the less i will further clarify MY
position. I was not getting into specific instances or anything of the sort.
I have never called anyone "the 'n' word" in my life nor do I ever plan to
becuase to me the word means nothing to me. All I am trying to get across is
that all people, not just in the sandbox but in society in general, should
express their opinion which ever way they feel comfortable with. I also
realize that in the constitution it states (in a nutshell) that "freedom of
speach will not be infringed upon unless used in a slandering, demoralizing, or
insulting way" Yet I know many people that don't care one way or another what
terms are used to point out there race, religious or sexual preference. I am
NOT racist. I will NEVER be racist. I do not make judgements about people
because of thier heredity and what not. I feel and stand up to the fact that
ALL people are created equal and should be treated as so. If there were ever
to be a conflict about the equality/inequality of people, I would be a heavily
involved advocate dedicated to proving the equality of ALL peeple. I stand
down from my soapbox now.

Bawlz001

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
iLYa wrote:

>Now this is my opinion... the Chinese and Koreans have slang and derogatory
>slurs for the Japanese far worse than anything heard in the English
>language. Are the Chinese rascists or insensitive?

YES! This is exactly my point! It takes 2 (or more) to tango! Americans are
not the only people that make "racial slurs". Many, if not all, nationalities
have terms that refer to Americans as well!

Bawlz001

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
Ken wrote:

EXACTLY!

Richard A Lewis

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
PC is something I always try to stay out of, but after reading all the
posts in this thread, I gotta say I agree with Keith wholeheartedly.

He stated it exactly the way I would have, except I woulda run it into
like 400 lines :)

Obviously, a modern German soldier wouldn't be referred to as a nazi,
but the term does accurately denote a German soldier during the WW2
era. Same for the terms jap and nip. Wouldn't much fit today, but
they do denote a Japanese (Nipponese) soldier as they were known to a
large part of the world during the WW2 era.

Changing the terms today for the benefits of PC policy is almost akin
to trying to rewrite history to make it look rosier.

ral

BAM

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
The Arrow wrote....


>Y'know how this politicaly correct stuff came about??
>
>Quite innocently, in fact.


<snip>

>Politically correct speach started as a attempt to put forth a more PRECISE
>way of communicating.
>Unfortunately,since this drive originated within the echelons of government
>and bureaucratic organizations it was quickly corrupted.

I think our glorious government's rewriting of language is double plus good,
brother. If you're disatisfied with Big Brother's word play, you're probably
a thought criminal and an agent of Goldstein.

Bam Bam


MistaMoose

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
> Jap is really the word in
>contention here, and Kraut to a certain extent. The N-word (and I just can't
>even type that...) shouldn't even be compared to either of those since that
>word is used exclusively by those who hate, to express their hate and
>distain.
>
>At one time, Jap (and Nip) was used for hate, but the hate came about because
>of an event, not a skin color.

Gotta differ with you, Scott. The word "Jap" was used hatefully prior to WWII.
When the first generation ("Issei") and second generation ("Nisei") Japanese
Americans began to start businesses and accumulate assets, West Coast
newspapers used "Jap" to stir up anti-Japanese-AMERICAN sentiment among white
farmers and landowners. The history of pre-WWII laws against
Japanese-Americans is shocking, leading up to the complete violation of their
civil rights with the concentration camps.

Greg

The Arrow

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to

BAM wrote in message <7ca6up$g6l$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...


Oh,I'm MUCH WORSE than a thought criminal or a agent of Goldstein.....


I'm a CARTOONIST!!!! ;-)


-the ARROW


Cameledit

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
I just have to wonder, isn't it politicaly incorect to collect or play with any
solder toys from any era because they hated, hurt or killed others who were
different than them in political, religous, or ethnical beliefs or backgrounds?

My froots come from Germany, Russa, Poland and Scottland so how would I
abreveate that? (hienz 57-American)

I collect all types of solders.

Kennedy How

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
iLYa wrote:

> RudyPAN wrote...
> >May I suggest "AJ" for "Axis Japan" to denote a WWII Japanese figure, and
> "AG"
> >for "Axis German". Comes across much better that "Jap" and "Kraut".

> OK, but Jap Miller,the guy that owns the local garage isn't going to like
> the switch to Axis Japan Miller.

Or Kraut Mueller, the character in the movie "Run Silent, Run Deep".

:)

Kennedy

scot...@my-dejanews.com

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Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
In article <28054-36...@newsd-214.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> HEY! you forgot, "deaf,fat,glasses wearing,funny lookin' hair, Civil servant"
!
omigod!
I'm Drew Carey!

;-D

Scott45
sad but true

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Mark Brockman

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
In article <tOVF2.33$nE2...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, Badanoff wrote:
...snipage...

>Allow me to make one last point. The term"Asian-American" is a very broad
>statement. It's about as broad a statement as saying "European-American".
>It doesn't really say anything at all.
>
Agreed! You cannot be Asian and American! If you're Asian then you were
born (and most probably raised) in some Asian country. If you're American
then you were born (and most probably raised) in America. You could be
an "American of Asian decent" but the term Asian-American implies that you
are Asian and American. That's just plain stupid, as is the rest of this
PC bulls**t.

--Mark

DWhitwo254

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
One Clarification, calling most of the german soldiers in WW2 Nazis is wrong in
the fact that most of them were not members of the Nazi party (or so history
says). But calling them Krauts IS like called the others Japs...just so we are
on the same sheet of music.

It has to do with ethnicity, not political party.

GO JOE!!
david

Lee Gray

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
MistaMoose wrote in message <19990312005440...@ng156.aol.com>...

>Gotta differ with you, Scott. The word "Jap" was used hatefully prior to
WWII.

[...]


>The history of pre-WWII laws against
>Japanese-Americans is shocking, leading up to the complete violation of
their
>civil rights with the concentration camps.


I'm glad someone mentioned something like this. Others have defended the
use of 'Jap' because it was OK to use for *propaganda* during WWII. It's
always "right" for us to talk about a godless, low-life current enemy, but
it's rarely mentioned that we (Americans) aren't so squeaky clean. Just
thought I'd mention it.

I don't care to debate *that* issue, but I think the issue of the main
thread is just dirt-simple, really. I doubt the ORIGINAL poster meant any
harm. It IS after all, an abbreviation for a toy soldier (it's easy to add
the '.' after it). I doubt, also, that the first response to that poster
which was something like: "the insensitivity of this newsgroup is sometimes
amazing", was meant as a PC diatribe. But now the thread doesn't have so
much to do with that abbreviated toy. It is now about what "I" think "I"
have the right to say.

My personal summary: Everyone has a right to say whatever they damn well
please. Everyone else also has a right to react to what was said. The sad
thing is that normally this is a friendly group of people that generally
respect each other. I don't care how much you justify our past need for
propaganda, I believe there's no point continuing to toss about derogatory
terms simply because "it was OK" to do so sometime in the past! Yeah, I
know blacks didn't attack our country, but it was after all "generally
accepted" to call them the 'n' word in the past, especially in the South,
yet it's not generally accepted today to refer to *those blacks in the past*
in that manner.

I'll repeat what I posted before: This has nothing to do with being PC or
with fighting wars; it's about what people NOW feel is insulting to hear
NOW. It's just not that dang hard to have a tiny bit of courtesy.

Lee


Bawlz001

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to
The Juryman wrote:

>I STRONGLY object to being called a "Canuck" !! Anyone who knows hockey knows
>that being called a (Vancouver)"Canuck" is the WORST sort of insult. Instead,
>please use the equivalent, but less insulting "usually-playoffs
>challenged-overpaid-underperforming-jock" !!!!!!! ;-)
>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! LMGDMFAO! ;-D~~

Jimbob1

unread,
Mar 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/12/99
to

I'm not really big on PC-ness either, but mainly as it's manifested in
legislation which attempts to control what we should think.

I've thought a lot about the various "-isms" lately and Hate is one area
which I feel that isn't defensible by attacking "PC-ness". It's not simply
a matter of using a term to accurately describe a figure in a particular
context. There's the matter of perspective too. If you validate using a
pejorative term here, then you also validate the usage of things like
"Cracker Pig Muthafukka" (sorry!) to refer to a '60's policeman figure, for
example. From a certain perspective and in a certain context, the phrase
might be appropriate. But it's clearly offensive. By deciding to use the
"loaded" version, you convey hatred, and not surprisingly, people are
offended. When other less controversial choices are available, how we
choose to refer to something conveys intent. I'm certain that Frank didn't
intend this in his original post-- but this was a good opportunity to bring
the issue of "PC-ness" and its backlash to light. It's a phrase which gets
bandied about a lot, but hard to tack down in all its particulars.

This is the way I've been able to make peace with the content of my web
site, which contains a lot of non-PC & sexist material. I know that I can't
respect everyone's sensitivities, but I try to draw the line at things which
stem from, or perpetuate hate.

Jimbob


Jimbob-Wan's Image Depot http://www.flash.net/~jimbob1/
* * * Remove "_n_o_s_p_a_m_" from the address to reply * * *
Richard A Lewis wrote in message <7ca5pa$pnc$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>...


>PC is something I always try to stay out of, but after reading all the
>posts in this thread, I gotta say I agree with Keith wholeheartedly.
>
>He stated it exactly the way I would have, except I woulda run it into
>like 400 lines :)
>
>Obviously, a modern German soldier wouldn't be referred to as a nazi,
>but the term does accurately denote a German soldier during the WW2
>era. Same for the terms jap and nip. Wouldn't much fit today, but
>they do denote a Japanese (Nipponese) soldier as they were known to a
>large part of the world during the WW2 era.
>
>Changing the terms today for the benefits of PC policy is almost akin
>to trying to rewrite history to make it look rosier.
>
>ral
>

fde...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
Why can't people just be AMERICAN? Why does PC have to bring us to such
divisive terms. If you are born in and a citizen of...no matter color, race,
or gender, you are an American. I don't call blacks African Americans
because they are not African. They are 100% American. The only African
American I know personally isn't black at all...he is an American missionary
kid who was born in Africa. He is the only one that I know who could really
call himself and African American and get a way with it.

I am a white chubby bald guy. My great great great grandfather was from
Scotland but I have Cherokee in my veins too. I no longer want anyone to
call me a the white bald guy over there. I now want to be known as a NATIVE
AMERICAN / SCOT-AMERICAN with some hair on the sides and isn't quite the size
of a large planet.

Why don't they come out with some bald chubby 1/2 Indian, 1/2 Scot American
G.I. Joes? I feel my minority isn't being represented over here!!!!!!!!! I
want equality. I want a Joe that looks like my people.
Please....somebody....feel MY PAIN.

Injun Dave
AMERICAN

Jimbob1

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
I think in order to happen, the Americas would have to take over the world.
Then we wouldn't need passports. Further to that thought, why can't all
vehicles just be vehicles? Do we need red Ford pickup trucks or green Mazda
MX6s? In fact, why can't everything just be called "matter", or simply
"stuff"? All this dickering with specificity sure is divisive!

It sure would make trading kind of pointless though: "I have: stuff . I
need: stuff"

(just having fun... ;^)

Jimbob

Jimbob-Wan's Image Depot http://www.flash.net/~jimbob1/
* * * Remove "_n_o_s_p_a_m_" from the address to reply * * *

fde...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7cd2la$uq6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

T4Lag...@webtv.net

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
Personaly i'm tired of all this PC CRAP.It's well past time for this
garbage, of offending people to be thrown out the window. It has become
archac already.

Personaly i take pride in call things as i see them a spade is a spade
I"M NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT ,and if you are offended "NUTS" to you.
I have and will continue writing my trade lists as i please.That will
include terms like "JAP","NIG" ,"GERRY","NAZIS". "BRIT", "RED",

I DO NOT BELIVE THIS IS TROLLING. I belive it is the opposete counter
PC, as i belive this PC crap to be trollng. Minor refrences to groups
should not be taken SO serrious. If by any chance there are indevidules
who are offended by these minor refrences they should seak professional
help.


In closing get a thicker skins and quite YAPING over nonsense. Things
will never be equal.Face it there will allwas be some degree of
annomosity between groups of people, nomatter how many self absorbed
Yuppies and gilt ridden 60's flower children Yap and b*tch about it.
It's human nature.

I'd rather trade with some one who is stright forward in there feeling
and post, instead of hiding behind PC CRAP.


The Arrow

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
<Whistling>

Here boy, here boy!!!
< Tosses yet another bone to the slavering hound.........>

;-)


--the Arrow

T4Lag...@webtv.net wrote in message
<1646-36E...@newsd-212.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

The Juriets

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
Sure, continue to post your offensive trade lists. We'll continue to
respond as we wish(agreeing or not). I do consider you to be a Troll. What
derogatory term should we call you ??

T4Lag...@webtv.net wrote:

> Personaly i'm tired of all this PC CRAP.It's well past time for this
> garbage, of offending people to be thrown out the window. It has become
> archac already.
>
> Personaly i take pride in call things as i see them a spade is a spade
> I"M NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT ,and if you are offended "NUTS" to you.
> I have and will continue writing my trade lists as i please.That will
> include terms like "JAP","NIG" ,"GERRY","NAZIS". "BRIT", "RED",
>
> I DO NOT BELIVE THIS IS TROLLING. I belive it is the opposete counter
> PC, as i belive this PC crap to be trollng. Minor refrences to groups
> should not be taken SO serrious. If by any chance there are indevidules
> who are offended by these minor refrences they should seak professional
> help.
>
> In closing get a thicker skins and quite YAPING over nonsense. Things
> will never be equal.Face it there will allwas be some degree of
> annomosity between groups of people, nomatter how many self absorbed
> Yuppies and gilt ridden 60's flower children Yap and b*tch about it.
> It's human nature.
>
> I'd rather trade with some one who is stright forward in there feeling
> and post, instead of hiding behind PC CRAP.

--
============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

The "Juryman" says:
More Joes = More Fun !!!!
SP # 14 (Think before you flame)

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================


op...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
In article <1646-36E...@newsd-212.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,

T4Lag...@webtv.net wrote:
> Personaly i'm tired of all this PC CRAP.It's well past time for this
> garbage, of offending people to be thrown out the window. It has become
> archac already.
>
> Personaly i take pride in call things as i see them a spade is a spade
> I"M NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT ,and if you are offended "NUTS" to you.
> I have and will continue writing my trade lists as i please.That will
> include terms like "JAP","NIG" ,"GERRY","NAZIS". "BRIT", "RED",
>
> I DO NOT BELIVE THIS IS TROLLING. I belive it is the opposete counter
> PC, as i belive this PC crap to be trollng. Minor refrences to groups
> should not be taken SO serrious. If by any chance there are indevidules
> who are offended by these minor refrences they should seak professional
> help.
>
> In closing get a thicker skins and quite YAPING over nonsense. Things
> will never be equal.Face it there will allwas be some degree of
> annomosity between groups of people, nomatter how many self absorbed
> Yuppies and gilt ridden 60's flower children Yap and b*tch about it.
> It's human nature.
>
> I'd rather trade with some one who is stright forward in there feeling
> and post, instead of hiding behind PC CRAP.
>
>

Of course this is written by the guy who's Dejanews profile shows 41 posts to
alt.politics.white-power, many of his posts there are extremely offensive in
nature. Not to mention his posts to alt.sex.fetish.robots (probably because
real people can't put up with him. Interesting what Dejanews keeps on file!
Rob

MistaMoose

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
> if you are offended "NUTS" to you.

The sentiment is mutual.

Greg

Jimbob1

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
Oooo... zing! You're right... and "Spell-checker deprived persons who
senselessly try to rekindle the controversy" should be called...??? sigh...
no, I ain't gonna say it 'cuz I'm soooo PC. But I couldn't help but
notice that you sound kinda agitated... Must be that thin skin. You really
shouldn't take these things so personally! Lighten up, we're only trying to
pollute the purity of your thoughts.

"Sarge! Comin' up the hillside... Military persons of Japanese ancestry who
serve Emperor Hirohito! Must be hundreds of 'em!!!"
"Yarrrrghhh... take that, you dirty person of Japanese ancestry who serves
Emperor Hirohito in a military capacity!"

Jimbob

Jimbob-Wan's Image Depot http://www.flash.net/~jimbob1/
* * * Remove "_n_o_s_p_a_m_" from the address to reply * * *

T4Lag...@webtv.net wrote in message
<1646-36E...@newsd-212.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

MORNINMAN

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
T4Lag...@webtv.net spewed:

<the usual junk snipped>

Man, my sig is gonna be huge. Stick to using the mail drops and save us all a
lot of grief.

Cordially,
MM

"You realy are a moreon" - stormt...@webtv.net, aka J. Weber, aka
mush...@webtv.net, aka Mike S., blowing me out of the water with his
insightful and devastating flame technique. And they say all the men of
letters are dead. Hurrumph.

The Juriets

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
We are not worthy!! The "King"(of eloquent rebuttals)is in the "House" !! Good to
hear from you again....

MORNINMAN wrote:

--

Charles Hill

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to T4Lag...@webtv.net
I'm with you on this .People too thin skinned. I'll beat all of them love
red-neck jokes which I know isn't quite the same but you get my drift.

MORNINMAN

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
op...@worldnet.att.net spake thus:

>Of course this is written by the guy who's Dejanews profile shows 41 posts to
>alt.politics.white-power, many of his posts there are extremely offensive in
>nature. Not to mention his posts to alt.sex.fetish.robots (probably because
>real people can't put up with him. Interesting what Dejanews keeps on file!

Indeed. B-)

Let's run down the checklist-

Posting from WebTV? Check.

Posting to alt.sex.fetish.robots? Check.

Advocating typical Identity crap? Check.

Matches existing WebTV ID? Check.

Fourth grade spelling? Check.

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the latest sock puppet of StormtrooperX.
Let us marvel at his infernal deviousness! Who would have ever suspected he
was a white power devotee? I'm shocked, simply shocked!

Guess "Jeses" will be giving me another bad trader rating on Phil's database
now. He he.

Cordially,
MM

"You realy are a moreon" - stormt...@webtv.net, aka J. Weber, aka

mush...@webtv.net, aka Mike S., aka T4Lag...@webtv.net blowing me out of

The Arrow

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
Now, now ......you'll only incite him to drag the stuff into here.
I would like to talk about Joes and Sams more than this stuff!!

Keep this clean--keep it to private e-mail.


PPLLLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!!!!!!!


-the ARROW

MORNINMAN wrote in message <19990313164102...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...

ItsMYGIJoe

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
Rob wrote:

<<<Of course this is written by the guy who's Dejanews profile shows 41 posts
to
alt.politics.white-power, many of his posts there are extremely offensive in
nature. >>>

This is true. Go to DEJANEWS.COM and seach for this guys email address...
{T4Lag...@webtv.net}
...he's got the right to be a "racist piece of crap", it's America. But I have
the right to ignore evey one of his FOR SALE posts and flame the hell out of
the baboon whenever he posts something utterly juvenile.

Sean

PS- Remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address to reply.

fde...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
I like that a lot....yeah....I don't even want to be known as American
anymore! I want to be known as #136000A227. I am the human who drives the
mini-matter with all the stuff in back. If I happen to be gone when you
visit, I will probably be at the stuff store shopping for more stuff...can I
pick you up anything.

Sincerely
#136000A227
formly Injun Dave


P.S. I don't mind having different names, but why are so many people so gosh
darn sensitive and whiny about everything. I guess that we
"Whatever-Americans" have too much time on our hands. Anyway, If you want
to unify a people, focus on points of commonness and not by living life
straining at differences and labeling based on differences.

BAM

unread,
Mar 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/13/99
to
fde...@my-dejanews.com wrote...

<snip

>Anyway, If you want
>to unify a people, focus on points of commonness and not by living life
>straining at differences and labeling based on differences.


Amen!

Something went seriously wrong with the U.S. when we stopped thinking "E
Pluribus Unum" a/k/a "One From Many" (the national motto, look on your US
money!) and people started focusing on "diversity". We're all the same
everywhere, some of us just have more GI Joes.

Bam Bam


Rick Rottman

unread,
Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99
to
Someone else here said it before, but I am going to say it again.
This is not the place to hash out subjects such as this. There are
loads of Usenet groups that are dedicated to this sort of stuff. This
group is for talking about G.I. Joe and his cousins.

Rick Rottman

****************************************************
http://www.mindspring.com/~rottman/home.htm
****************************************************

fde...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99
to
I guess I need to put away my KKK Joe.

In article <19990312034843...@ng26.aol.com>,

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

DUG

unread,
Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99
to
Could be why you got webtv instead of real computer. Another
loser.........................DUG

<T4Lag...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1646-36E...@newsd-212.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

op...@worldnet.att.net

unread,
Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99
to
In article <36eb1a33...@news.mindspring.com>,

rot...@mindspring.com (Rick Rottman) wrote:
> Someone else here said it before, but I am going to say it again.
> This is not the place to hash out subjects such as this. There are
> loads of Usenet groups that are dedicated to this sort of stuff. This
> group is for talking about G.I. Joe and his cousins.
>
> Rick Rottman

However, this *is* like a group of friends sitting around talking... and the
subject drifts off to several different topics in the course of a
conversation. This group has also been compared to a busy bar - lots of
folks talking about different things in different parts of the bar. As you
"walk" around you will take part in some conversations, and keep on walking
by others. *Nobody* has the right to say any topic cannot (or should not) be
discussed here. Granted the main discussions should relate to "gi joe"
(purposely uncapitalized) but off topic discussions occur frequently. We
sure don't want to be "all Joe, all the time" as this would be a very boring
place - no congratualtions on babies or marriages, no condolences on bad news
in familys, no joking around... kinda like another forum I know of. Rob

MORNINMAN

unread,
Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99
to
"DUG" <du...@gte.net> spake thus:

>Could be why you got webtv instead of real computer. Another
>loser.........................DUG

Now, now...we've got some good doobies using WebTV here. I would suspect Der
Sock Puppet qualified for full-blown loserhood long before he hooked up his
set-top box.

Rick Rottman

unread,
Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99