Hitler, Hussein and a Presidential War
Edward Holman
appreciate the presidential war, but his friend James Madison would not.
Madison saw the war-making authority of the nation as exclusive to the
Congress -- not that defensive or responsive measures could not be initiated
by a chain of command; they have been and will be. But when the nation was
to march deliberately to war, it was Congress that would lead by enacting
law for the executive to faithfully execute. Madison divided war into two
classes -- those that were the "mere will of the government" and those that
were the "will of the society itself." He also knew that "Those who are to
conduct a war cannot in the nature of things, be proper or safe judges,
whether a war ought to be commenced, continued, or concluded." How can
Madison be so right on republican strength and so wrong on the application
of that strength -- the use of military force? The presidential war is a
benefit only to legislators given free reign to come down on both sides of
the most difficult of national issues. And while the presidential war
benefits Congress, it is of no benefit to the soldiers who will fight it or
the citizens who will pay for it."
Walter L. Stewart
Maj. Gen. (Ret.)
Army National Guard
Bernville, Pa.
The prevailing supposition (Hussein as Hitler) is insufficient prima facie
evidence to deploy a half a million men and expend $70 billion U.S. on the
other side of the planet for the next ten years. And we don't know what Iraq
is in possession of nor their means of delivery. And in any case they could
not deliver a knockout blow nor even degrade our capability to turn Baghdad
into glass should even the flimsiest of a trail for such an unprovoked
attack upon us track back to Saddam. It's Iraq's neighbrors who are at risk,
and only them. Bin Laden is dead and the military arm of the fundamentalists
have been smashed. It's silly to associate Iraq with the Fundamentalist
cause since Hussein is a non-religious tyrant that wants no part of Islamic
courts as the final arbiter of Iraqi justice. If Israel doesn't care for the
Iraqi situation, then let them take care of it. But in no case can we become
a proxy force for the Israelis since we would be de facto protecting the
settlements on the West Bank and Gaza because Little Sister cannot. It
changes the argument and fuels the fundamentalists with additional military
strike forces - Palestinians in CONUS (Continental United States). That's
not our fight and no stretch or torture of the Iraqi factset will make it
so. So our hawks must lose the Hussein as Hitler dogma. The American public
is not buying it and we don't do wars very well that we aren't consulted on
first.
But the popular linkage political entertainers are attempting to make (in
order to aggress) between an isolated strongman in charge of a third-world
country situated within a region of constant border wars . . . with pre-war
Germany is ludicrous. The same argument can be made about N. Korea,
Indonesia, Cuba, heck, pick one of many more. Germany had the maniac, the
military machine and the axis to reach into three continents. It borders on
jingoism to listen to some of the nitwit comparisons and tired platitudes
these war drum bangers are making both here and abroad.
It appears to be a smokescreen by some bleary-eyed Christians to engage the
Moslems in some kind of planetary holy war. Get real. We aren't going to
attack Iraq NOT because China, Russia and France will veto it at the UN, NOT
because the United States Congress will not declare war upon Iraq but
because the American people won't stand for it. It just ain't us, baby. It
ain't our style.
If after the President hoists up a cogent and believable case for the
destruction of Iraq, and after the U.S. Congress gives him the go ahead, and
if we can form a coalition only THEN does might make right. But our
leadership has not even made it to the parking lot much less the playing
field to present it's case. Bush starts on the 12th with a speech before the
UN, and it better be good.
"On becoming soldiers we have not ceased to be citizens." - Address, "Humble
Representation," 1647, to the English Parliament by Oliver Cromwell's
soldiers.
- an american
George
"Edward Holman" <hol...@cybermesa.com> wrote in message
news:aljdl2$5ol$1...@reader.nmix.net...
[snip] Goog stuff, but that's not what I am interested in.
> The prevailing supposition (Hussein as Hitler) is insufficient prima facie
> evidence to deploy a half a million men and expend $70 billion U.S. on the
> other side of the planet for the next ten years. And we don't know what
Iraq
> is in possession of nor their means of delivery.
We know what he had, and is trying to get. So lets go find out. Its the
only way to know for sure.
>And in any case they could
> not deliver a knockout blow nor even degrade our capability to turn
Baghdad
> into glass should even the flimsiest of a trail for such an unprovoked
> attack upon us track back to Saddam.
Tell that to al Qaeda. If a well organized, yet relatively small band of
terrorists can do 9/11, think what a government of professional spies and
well trained infiltrators could do.
>It's Iraq's neighbrors who are at risk,
> and only them. Bin Laden is dead
You know this for a fact? You've seen the body, right?
?and the military arm of the fundamentalists
> have been smashed.
You are naive in the extreme, or ignorant if you think they no longer have
capabilities.
>It's silly to associate Iraq with the Fundamentalist
> cause since Hussein is a non-religious tyrant
Really? Is that why he goes to the Mosques to pray? Is that why he is as
often seen in traditional garb as in military garb?
>that wants no part of Islamic
> courts as the final arbiter of Iraqi justice. If Israel doesn't care for
the
> Iraqi situation, then let them take care of it.
Right. I can see that happening. NOT!
>But in no case can we become
> a proxy force for the Israelis since we would be de facto protecting the
> settlements on the West Bank and Gaza because Little Sister cannot.
If my memory serves me right (and I know it does, in this case), the West
Bank and Gaza are not in Iraq, are they? So how does invading Iraq protect
those worthless pieces of scrubland?
>It changes the argument and fuels the fundamentalists with additional
military
> strike forces - Palestinians in CONUS (Continental United States).
Bring them on. You tend to forget the words attributed to a certain
Japanese admiral after he attacked Pearl Harbor. 'We cannot defeat the
Americans on their soil. There would be a gun behind every blade of grass.'
Indeed, there are likely many more than one gun behind every blade of grass
in America. So tell me again why you think we should be afraid of the
Palestinians coming to the continental United Sates?
>That's
> not our fight and no stretch or torture of the Iraqi factset will make it
> so.
The Palestinian issue is not our fight. You are correct. However, that
being so, why do you suppose that we are the ones who are called on by the
international community and even the PA (not just Israel) to help find a
peaceful settlement in Israel? Perhaps because we are the only ones who
can?
>So our hawks must lose the Hussein as Hitler dogma. The American public
> is not buying it and we don't do wars very well that we aren't consulted
on
> first.
Look at the polls. I think you will find that there is opposition, yet
there are still a majority who think we have to do this. As the time nears,
I think you will find those numbers increasing. I could be wrong. I don't
think I am.
> But the popular linkage political entertainers are attempting to make (in
> order to aggress) between an isolated strongman in charge of a third-world
> country situated within a region of constant border wars . . . with
pre-war
> Germany is ludicrous. The same argument can be made about N. Korea,
> Indonesia, Cuba, heck, pick one of many more.
Ok then. We'll deal with them when we get around to it. They are not as
pressing. Indonesia will likely be next.
>Germany had the maniac, the
> military machine and the axis to reach into three continents. It borders
on
> jingoism to listen to some of the nitwit comparisons and tired platitudes
> these war drum bangers are making both here and abroad.
Hitler didn't live in a world where nuclear physics is being taught to every
nut case who wants to listen. And he certainly didn't have the stockpiles
of chemical and biological agents at Hussein's disposal. And remember,
Hussein has already used them to terrible effect.
> It appears to be a smokescreen by some bleary-eyed Christians to engage
the
> Moslems in some kind of planetary holy war.
If you hadn't noticed, it was the Muslims extremists who declared "Jihad" on
us. And it took four years for us to reciprocate. Since we are four years
behind, how long do you think we have?
>Get real. We aren't going to
> attack Iraq NOT because China, Russia and France will veto it at the UN,
NOT
> because the United States Congress will not declare war upon Iraq but
> because the American people won't stand for it. It just ain't us, baby. It
> ain't our style.
Don't hold your breath. It ain't over til the fat lady sings, and the old
man eats his pudding.
> If after the President hoists up a cogent and believable case for the
> destruction of Iraq, and after the U.S. Congress gives him the go ahead,
and
> if we can form a coalition only THEN does might make right.
Give them time. When the time is right, I'm sure they will produce what is
needed. And I think our allies will climb on board, when it is all said and
done.
>But our
> leadership has not even made it to the parking lot much less the playing
> field to present it's case. Bush starts on the 12th with a speech before
the
> UN, and it better be good.
Well, if its not, then I am certain he will hear about it.
> "On becoming soldiers we have not ceased to be citizens." - Address,
"Humble
> Representation," 1647, to the English Parliament by Oliver Cromwell's
> soldiers.
>
> - an american
>
Yeah, we know all about his exploits.
"Richard Cromwell's exploits pleased Henry VIII enough to Knight him and in
1538 to grant him estates in the form of Hinchingbrooke, a large former
nunnery in Huntingdonshire. This was another asset "liberated" from the
Catholic establishment."
So he got rich at the expense of Catholics, just like the assholes who
forced my family into servitude in a Godforsaken shithole of a colony in
North America in 1640. And I'm supposed to be impressed? Sorry. Not
impressed.