Were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark?
John D Leister
and to put it bluntly it was interesting reading if
somewhat flawed.....
The author of the book is Ken Ham. Need I say more on
this?
According to the book they say dinosaurs were onboard
Noah's Ark, but the caveat is that they say NOT all of
them. The reason being that they say only representatives
of the dinos were on the Ark leaving the rest to die out
in the flood 4,500 years ago. Yes that's right and here
we go again with the young Earth theory again.
Personally I have changed my views on the whole "age of
Earth" stuff and I must admit while I do not think it is
6000 years old as stated in this book and others I would
say my personal best guess is maybe 120,000 years. I no
longer believe in the billions of years crap.
But to the question at hand do you think dinos were on
the Ark?
george spiggott
John D Leister wrote in message <3B890EFB...@senet.com.au>...
>But to the question at hand do you think dinos were on
>the Ark?
No, I believe they were mostly transported by little green fairies to a
faraway planet where they still live with millions of little beings who look
like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck and worship a giant ice statue of Walt
Disney.
George
Tintin
"John D Leister" <joh...@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3B890EFB...@senet.com.au...
There was no ark, hence no dinos. The real question you need to ask
yourself is how you can believe a myth is real when it has so many holes.
Some of the explainations, back flips, contortions and lies the young earth
believers come up with are simply laughable.
The ark myth seems to have originated about 5000BC when the black sea was
land locked (and was a fresh water lake with a large number of communities
living around its shores). Around this time the earth was coming out of a
mini ice age. The levels of the oceans rose, and in particular the
Mediterranean sea rose about 100 metres above the level of the lake. The
pressure of the sea against the very narrow land bridge collapsed in a
cataclysmic flood. Underwater surveys have found geological evidence of the
massive rock rubble near the exit of the Black sea and remains of old river
valleys and fresh water shellfish. This event obvious became an important
story in the survivers. These people migrated towards what today is Turkey,
where the story was incorporated in the Gigamesh flood story and from that
eventually into the Noah myth.
My memory is a little fuzzy on some of the exact details, as this
information came from a documentary I saw a few months ago.
Stanislaw Flatto
>
> My memory is a little fuzzy on some of the exact details, as this
> information came from a documentary I saw a few months ago.
As to the question posted in title, of course there were, their names
Shem, Ham and Yefet.
Stanislaw.
D.Castles
Tintin wrote:
The fundies are a little slow on their attempt to debunk this one and the flood
mentioned in the Epic of Gilgamesh sends them into a fury about "pagan"
literature.
The geological evidence is compelling and if some evidence of habitaion can be
proven on land that is now under the Black Sea then we'll really get some
action.
Their is a genuine attempt to excavate some underwater tells in the Black Sea at
this very moment. The results should be very interesting.
Dave
Truth .
from past ages." But as one paleontologist said, it is "a highly speculative
and opinionated science." This is evident regarding dinosaurs. Listing some
speculations as to what happened to them, Princeton scientist G. L. Jepson
stated:
"Authors with varying competence have suggested that dinosaurs disappeared
because the climate deteriorated . . . or that the diet did. . . . Other
writers have put the blame on disease, parasites, . . . changes in the
pressure or composition of the atmosphere, poison gases, volcanic dust,
excessive oxygen from plants, meteorites, comets, gene pool drainage by
little mammalian egg-eaters, . . . cosmic radiation, shift of Earth's
rotational poles, floods, continental drift, . . . drainage of swamp and
lake environments, sunspots."-The Riddle of the Dinosaur.
It is apparent from such speculations that scientists are not able, with any
certainty, to answer the question: What happened to the dinosaurs?
Sudden Extinction Theory
A more recent theory was put forth by a father-and-son team, Luis and Walter
Alvarez. Walter Alvarez discovered, outside the town of Gubbio in central
Italy, a curious thin, red layer of clay sandwiched between two limestone
layers in the rock formation. The lower layer of limestone yielded an
abundance of fossils. The top layer was almost devoid of fossils, leading
the geologists to conclude that life suddenly disappeared and that the thin,
red layer of clay had some connection with the extinction.
Analysis revealed that the clay was rich in iridium (a metal), 30 times
richer than the concentration normally found in rocks. They knew that such
high concentrations of this rare element could come only from the earth's
core or from sources outside the earth. They concluded that the iridium was
deposited by a huge asteroid that hit the earth, causing the sudden
extinction of the dinosaurs.
After the discovery of the iridium-enriched clay at Gubbio, similar deposits
were found in other parts of the world. Did this corroborate the asteroid
hypothesis? Some scientists remain skeptical. But as the book The Riddle of
the Dinosaur acknowledges, the Alvarez hypothesis added "fresh yeast to the
study of extinction and evolution." And paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould
admits that it could diminish "the importance of competition between
species."
Commenting on this new theory and the apparently sudden extinction of the
dinosaurs, one science writer admits: "They could shake the foundations of
evolutionary biology and call into question the current concept of natural
selection."
University of Arizona scientist David Jablonski concludes that 'for many
plants and animals, extinction was abrupt and somehow special. Mass
extinctions are not merely the cumulative effects of gradual dyings.
Something unusual happened.' Their arrival was also abrupt. Scientific
American observes: "The sudden appearance of both suborders of the
pterosaurs without any obvious antecedents is fairly typical of the fossil
record." That is also the case with dinosaurs. Their relatively sudden
appearance and disappearance contradicts the commonly accepted view of slow
evolution.
The Dating of Dinosaurs
Dinosaur bones are regularly found in lower earth layers than are human
bones, leading many to conclude that they belong to an earlier time period.
Geologists call this time the Mesozoic period and subdivide it into the
Cretaceous, Jurassic, and Triassic periods. The time frames used for these
periods are on the order of tens of millions of years. But has this been
established with any certainty?
One method being used to measure the age of fossils is called radiocarbon
dating. This dating system measures the rate of decay of radioactive carbon
from the point of death of the organism. "Once an organism dies, it no
longer absorbs new carbon dioxide from its environment, and the proportion
of the isotope falls off over time as it undergoes radioactive decay,"
states Science and Technology Illustrated.
However, there are severe problems with the system. First, when the fossil
is considered to be about 50,000 years old, its level of radioactivity has
fallen so low that it can be detected only with great difficulty. Second,
even in more recent specimens, this level has fallen so low that it is still
extremely difficult to measure accurately. Third, scientists can measure the
present-day rate of radioactive carbon formation but have no way of
measuring carbon concentrations in the distant past.
So whether they use the radiocarbon method for dating fossils or other
methods, such as employing radioactive potassium, uranium, or thorium, for
dating rocks, scientists are unable to establish the original levels of
those elements through ages of time. Thus, professor of metallurgy Melvin A.
Cook observes: "One may only guess these concentrations [of radioactive
materials], and the age results thus obtained can be no better than this
guess." That would especially be so when we consider that the Flood of Noah'
s day over 4,300 years ago brought enormous changes in the atmosphere and on
earth.
Dartmouth College geologists Charles Officer and Charles Drake further add
doubt to the accuracy of radioactive dating. They state: "We conclude that
iridium and other associated elements were not deposited instantaneously . .
. but rather that there was an intense and variable influx of these
constituents during a relatively short geologic time interval on the order
of 10,000 to 100,000 years." They argue that the breakup and movement of the
continents disrupted the entire globe, causing volcanic eruptions, blocking
sunlight and fouling the atmosphere. Certainly, such disruptive events could
change radioactivity levels, thus distorting results from modern-day
radioactive clocks.
The Genesis Account and Dinosaurs
While the radioactive dating method is innovative, it is still based on
speculation and assumption. In contrast, the Bible account in the first
chapter of Genesis simply states the general order of creation. It allows
for possibly thousands of millions of years for the formation of the earth
and many millenniums in six creative eras, or "days," to prepare the earth
for human habitation.
Some dinosaurs (and pterosaurs) may indeed have been created in the fifth
era listed in Genesis, when the Bible says that God made "flying creatures"
and "great sea monsters." Perhaps other types of dinosaurs were created in
the sixth epoch. The vast array of dinosaurs with their huge appetites would
have been appropriate considering the abundant vegetation that evidently
existed in their time.-Genesis 1:20-24.
When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But
the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that
dinosaurs were created by Jehovah for a purpose, even if we do not fully
understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of
evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any
fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil
links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over
millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the
evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible's view of creative
acts of God.
John D Leister
More then likely ROFLMAO
I needed a good belly laugh
John
John D Leister
ROFLMAO I needed a good laugh, not as good
as the previous poster but still funny all the same.
D.Castles
"Truth ." wrote:
Fundamentalist ignorant ravings.
Dave
Brown Family
Isn't it funny how one person posits an idea that the flood might have
been the Black Sea, conveniently forgetting that the flood DID
subside, and the relative speed at which some people seize upon the
idea as "gospel-fact" and an unassailable truth, which, more than
likely, was not the intention of the writer.
If you want to know what happened to the dinosaurs, read the Bible.
What does it say?
GEN 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they
bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
men of renown.
The Bible is saying that the "giants in the earth" were not just men
but were also all kinds of flora and fauna. It was the flood that
destroyed them because they were so violent, as it says;
GEN 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt;
for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
GEN 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before
me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I
will destroy them with the earth.
And Judaism begins its calendar, now almost the year 5762, from the
COMPLETION of creation, and not from Day 1. Some Rabbis have even
suggested that the universe is 14 billion years old, such suggestions
having been made over 1000 years ago.
Now, if Christians paid more time to reading and learning ALL the
Bible instead of looking for only those passages that justify the
existence of their god/saviour, they might be a little more
knowledgeable.
Les Brown
Tintin
"Brown Family" <lbr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b8af6a...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Isn't it funny how one person posits an idea that the flood might have
> been the Black Sea, conveniently forgetting that the flood DID
> subside, and the relative speed at which some people seize upon the
> idea as "gospel-fact" and an unassailable truth, which, more than
> likely, was not the intention of the writer.
The "flood" didn't subside as the old river valleys are under the Black Sea
today. The documentary I saw was on Compass (ABC Sunday nights). The two
scientists still had a lot of geological and archeological work to do, but
the evidence they had found so far was very convincing.
>
> If you want to know what happened to the dinosaurs, read the Bible.
> What does it say?
>
> GEN 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
> that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they
> bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
> men of renown.
>
> The Bible is saying that the "giants in the earth" were not just men
> but were also all kinds of flora and fauna. It was the flood that
> destroyed them because they were so violent, as it says;
>
> GEN 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt;
> for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
> GEN 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before
> me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I
> will destroy them with the earth.
The problem with the Bible is that it is open to so many different
interpretations.
> Now, if Christians paid more time to reading and learning ALL the
> Bible instead of looking for only those passages that justify the
> existence of their god/saviour, they might be a little more
> knowledgeable.
Now, if Jews and Christians paid more time to reading the Bible, they'd come
to learn that it is a collection of ancient stories and myths.
John D Leister
< snip >
> Now, if Jews and Christians paid more time to reading the
> Bible, they'd come to learn that it is a collection of
> ancient stories and myths.
This is one of the reasons I am having a problem with the book
I am reading at the moment. It's an interesting book in itself
in that it has a lot of good information about the dinosaurs
but I feel the author (Ken Ham) has either taken a few liberties
with what he's written or has made his own facts.
To explain why the Ark didn't contain two of EVERY species of
animal on it he's stated that the Ark only had REPRESENTATIVE
members of each species. He also states that all the animals
on the ark would not have had to be adults and thus would all
have been small, roughly the size of a sheep.
To explain why large dinosaurs like the Tyrannosaurus Rex were
not onboard he says that when the flood came animals that were
not on the Ark simply drowned.
And here is why I have a problem with that scenario. Doesn't the
Bible state that there were two of EVERY animal onboard the Ark?
If that is true and we take it to its logical conclusion then how
can you have things drowning?
Oh well I think I'll stop now my head hurts.
Brown Family
<some...@in.paradise.net> wrote:
>
>The problem with the Bible is that it is open to so many different
>interpretations.
>
Yes, but we Jews have all the right ones (;-)
>> Now, if Christians paid more time to reading and learning ALL the
>> Bible instead of looking for only those passages that justify the
>> existence of their god/saviour, they might be a little more
>> knowledgeable.
>
>Now, if Jews and Christians paid more time to reading the Bible, they'd come
>to learn that it is a collection of ancient stories and myths.
And that scientific "facts" are so often confused with theories to
really be taken too seriously. It's the speed at which lay-people
adopts these theories, that amuses me.
Our Rabbis have always said that proven science can never contradict
the Bible. And the real fight is not between science and the Bible,
but between science and science. Even the very laws of physics and
beloved constants such as the speed of light in space are under threat
by scientists. I, personally, would put as much faith in scientists as
I would in fundamentalist Christians. Both seem to be tarred with the
same brush, IMHO.
I personally love science and follow it eagerly, but I have learnt
over the years that unless a theory has been proven beyond all doubt,
it must remain just a theory. And even when it is proven be prepared
to ditch it when a better proof comes along.
Science was never meant to give meaning to life.
Les Brown
Tintin
> This is one of the reasons I am having a problem with the book
> I am reading at the moment. It's an interesting book in itself
> in that it has a lot of good information about the dinosaurs
> but I feel the author (Ken Ham) has either taken a few liberties
> with what he's written or has made his own facts.
>
> To explain why the Ark didn't contain two of EVERY species of
> animal on it he's stated that the Ark only had REPRESENTATIVE
> members of each species. He also states that all the animals
> on the ark would not have had to be adults and thus would all
> have been small, roughly the size of a sheep.
>
> To explain why large dinosaurs like the Tyrannosaurus Rex were
> not onboard he says that when the flood came animals that were
> not on the Ark simply drowned.
>
> And here is why I have a problem with that scenario. Doesn't the
> Bible state that there were two of EVERY animal onboard the Ark?
> If that is true and we take it to its logical conclusion then how
> can you have things drowning?
>
> Oh well I think I'll stop now my head hurts.
Warning! Warning! Any attempt to apply even the simpliest logic to the Ark
story will cause ones head to explode.
John D Leister
Why is that?
What in particular is it about the Ark story that is so
illogical apart from the bit with the animals? :o)
John D Leister
of the Ark story would cause me pain but also I have
read more of the book "The great dinosaur mystery
solved" and another bit I am having a problem with
is one of their rather extraordinary claims about
dinosaur diet.........
In this book they make the claim that ALL the dinosaurs
including T Rex were in fact all vegetarian right up to
the time that Adam and Eve fell to sin and ate the apple.
How did that happen?
Did God suddenly goo.........
"hello dinosaurs!!! This is God"
"yes God"
"You can all stop eating veggies now"
"Um OK God thanks!!!!!"
A few minutes later they then start chomping on each other.
Uuuuuum actually that idea kind of works for me now that
I think about it..........
John D Leister
As to my own personal views on all this and the rest
of the Bible.........
Well I am what I call a Goddist. I'll explain what that means.
To me a Goddist is a person that believes God worked within
the rules of science.........
THAT HE......
1) Created the universe, and the laws with which the universe
works, therefore he can't work outside those laws and created the
heavens and the Earth in a set timeframe, and order.
In other words since God created the laws of physics / time / space
he cannot go beyond those to speed things up, slow things down or
else he is breaking his own rules.....
2) Used that set timeframe to create our Earth and all life
upon the Earth. I don't believe in the literal days as the fundies
do as that isn't logical. There had to be a certain time for all
of the works of Genesis to take place but I do not think it was
six literal 24 hour days.
And that is basically that. A universe of order and rule which
works in a logical manner......
Tintin
> > Warning! Warning! Any attempt to apply even the simpliest
> > logic to the Ark story will cause ones head to explode.
>
> Why is that?
>
> What in particular is it about the Ark story that is so
> illogical apart from the bit with the animals? :o)
Where do I start. The sheer logistics of building an Ark (particularly in
that region of the world) would have taken years and years to build. Where
did all the water come from to flood the entire earth so that even the
tallest mountains were underwater, and where did all the water go when the
flood finished?
Peter Mount
I agree with you to a point.
Yes, I too believe God deliberately set up the universe to have laws
I agree that the so called "6 days" would have been many times longer than 6
units of 24 hours (probably in the order of millions or billions of years)
I agree with you when you say:
> And that is basically that. A universe of order and rule which
> works in a logical manner......
However, the one point I beg to differ is when you say
> In other words since God created the laws of physics / time / space
> he cannot go beyond those to speed things up, slow things down or
> else he is breaking his own rules.....
Even though God set up those rules it must still be in his power to "break"
those rules. Otherwise how would you explain miracles. Besides if we have a
"God that must follow rules" then wouldn't that be an oxymoron?
Look, I believe that science rules but even in science they come up with
some really amazing things that you'd have to be a Christian to believe in.
Just look at quantum physics. I've heard about some strange things that
happen with that, like the Quantum Entanglement theory (don't ask me to
explain that one, my brain still hurts from hearing about it).
Have a good day
Peter Mount
pam...@iprimus.com.au
"John D Leister" <joh...@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3B8F9924...@senet.com.au...
dave byers
fallible. However, hasn't it occurred that there are rules that apply to
things we can't understand because we haven't discovered the rules yet?
Peace <><,
dave
dave byers
simple water?
Peace <><,
dave
Peter Mount
It sounds like a play on words to me. Don't you think he made the rules for
us, as we are imperfect? God, on the other had, would be perfect so rules
for him would be redundant.
One could say he doesn't need rules as he is infinitely wise and so knows
the right thing to do anyway. He would know when to do something and when
not to do the same thing, while we as mere mortals would not have the same
powers of discernment.
This could turn into a circular argument.
Peter Mount
pam...@iprimus.com.au
"dave byers" <duc...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:OB8k7.1896$P94.65...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
John D Leister
of the Ark story would cause me pain but also I have
read more of the book "The great dinosaur mystery
John D Leister
How did that happen?
Did God suddenly goo.........
"yes God"
"Um OK God thanks!!!!!"
I think about it. LOL
John D Leister
Ok well you know someone warned me that trying to
get logic out of the Ark story would cause me pain
but also I have read more of the book "The great
dinosaur mystery solved" and another bit I am having
a problem with is one of their rather extraordinary
claims about dinosaur diet.........
In this book they make the claim that ALL the dinosaurs
including T Rex were in fact all vegetarian right up to
the time that Adam and Eve fell to sin and ate the apple.
How did that happen?
Did God suddenly goo.........
"hello dinosaurs!!! This is God"
"yes God"
"You can all stop eating veggies now"
"Um OK God thanks!!!!!"
A few minutes later they then start chomping on each other.
Uuuuuum actually that idea kind of works for me now that
I think about it.......... LOL