Noah's Ark Discovery Tied Into Atheistic Plot From Wall St. & Russian Revolution??

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wgroom

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Dec 9, 2011, 12:34:13 PM12/9/11
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Pilot Vladimir Roskovitsky was interviewed after WWI by Robert
Anderson, a member of the Mormon Church. The aviator had fled Russia
shortly after the Bolshevik Revolution. Here's the story in
Roskovitsky's own words:

It was just before the Russian Revolution that this story really
began. A group of Russian aviators were stationed in a lonely
temporary outpost abuot twenty-five miles northeast of Mount Ararat.
The day was hot and dry as August days so often are in this semidesert
land.

Far up on the side of the mountain we could see a thunder shower,
while still further up we could see the white snowcaps of Mount
Ararat. Just then the captain walkedin and announced that plane
number seven had its new supercharger installed and was ready for high
altitude tests and ordered my buddy and me to make the test.

At least we could escape from the heat! We wasted no time in getting
our parachutes strapped on, our oxygen cans, and completing other
required tasks that needed doing before the assigned flight. Then we
climbed into the cockpit, fastened our safety belts, and we were in
the air.

Circling the field several times until we reached the 14,000 foot
mark, we stopped climbing for a few minutes to become accustomed to
the altitude. I looked to the right to the beautiful snow-capped
mountains. Twenty-six miles is a short distance when flying at a
speed of 100 miles per hour. After circling several times around the
snow-capped cone, we made a long, swift glide down the slope and
suddenly came upon a perfect lake.

We returned for another look and suddeny my companion observed
something and excitedly pointed to the overflow of the lake. We
thought it a submarine, but on looking closer we saw that it had a
stubby mast, the top was rounded over, with a flat catwalk about five
feet wide down the length of it. What a strange craft, built as
though the designer had expected the waves to roll over the top most
of the time and had engineered it to wallow in the sea like a
log . . . .

We flew down as far as safety permitted and took several circles
around it. When we got close to it, we surprised to discover the size
of it, for it was as long as a city block and would compare favorably
in size with a modern battleship of this day.

It was grounded on the shores of the lake with about one-fourth of the
hull under water. It had been partly dismantled on one side near the
front and on the other side there were great doorways, one nearly
twenty-for feet square, but the door was gone. This seemed quite out
of proportion, as even today, ships seldom have doors even half that
large.

Roskovitsky returned to base and reported his discovery to the
captain, who asked to be flown to the site. "This strange craft," the
captain said, "is Noah's Ark! It has been sitting at 14,000 feet for
5,000 years being frozen nine or ten months, perhaps longer, in a
year. It has been in cold storage, as it were, all this time. You
have made the most amazing discovery of the age."


Czar Sends Soldiers

Roskovitsky's account of the events continues:

When the captain sent this report to the Russian government it aroused
considerable interest, which resulted in the Czar's sending two
special companies of soldiers to climb the mountain. One group of
100 men attacked the mountain from the other side. Two weeks of hard
labor was required to chop out a trail along the cliffs of the lower
part of the mountain, and it was nearly a month before the Ark was
reached.

Complete measurements of it were taken, plans drawn of it, and
numerous photographs were made, all of which were sent to the Czar.
The Ark was found to contain hundreds of small rooms, some with very
high ceilings. Some unusually large rooms had fences of great timbers
across them, some of which were two feet thick and designed to hold
beasts ten times as large as elephants. Other rooms were lined with
cages reminding us of those used in pottery shows, only instead of
chicken wire there were rows of iron or metal bars across the front.

Everything was heavily painted with a warlike paint resembling shellac
and the workmanship of the craft showed all signs of a high type of
civilization. The wood used throughout was similar to the cypress
family which never rots, and which, being painted and frozen most of
the time, accounts for its condition of perfect preservation.

Only a few days after the report ws sent to the Czar, the Russian
government was overthrown by the Bolshevik Revolution and no doubt the
records were destroyed---at least they were never made public---in an
effort apparently of Bolshevism to discredit aa belief in the truth of
the Bible.

The White Russians of the air fleet escaped through Armenia where we
could be free to live according to the Good Book. . . .

Critics say while the facts of the account are true, the story has
been embellished.
"I've learned there was a contingent of Russian arrmen stationed at
the foot of the mountain in 1917. They did fly their planes around
and over Ararat; they fled by the Armenian area when the overheard of
the overthrow of the Czar; and several members of the unit are to have
made their way to the United States," says Dallas radio commentator
Melvin Munn, who admits that he has not been able to verify any of the
specific details of the Roskovitsky account. "Neither have we found
solid evidence to discredit or disbelieve the account."

Search For Noah's Ark pgs. 103-4



Story Verified
http://www.whale.to/b/allen_b1.html

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 9, 2011, 2:11:51 PM12/9/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f266457-f796-4e47...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> Pilot Vladimir Roskovitsky was interviewed after WWI by Robert
> Anderson, a member of the Mormon Church. The aviator had fled Russia
> shortly after the Bolshevik Revolution. Here's the story in
> Roskovitsky's own words:
>

Noah's ark has been found by many people in man different places. Nothing
new.......

wgroom

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Dec 10, 2011, 1:16:42 PM12/10/11
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On Dec 9, 2:11 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
Well, it's not an easy place to say where it is *exactly*. I do think
most of the ones verified by expedition are in the same small area,
and one relic found (where there are no wood products) was found
directly below..and surmised dropped or a product of an avalance, or
earthquake.

It also has been found by many more than this incident...from 700 B.C
Id'ings through the 20th century, and the reason for no further
expedition is by Turkish decree of no allowance. Some have Bell
Helicopters ready when it should be lifted.

wg

Free Lunch

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Dec 10, 2011, 2:38:34 PM12/10/11
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On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:16:42 -0800 (PST), wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com>
wrote in alt.talk.creationism:

>On Dec 9, 2:11 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
>wrote:
>> "wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4f266457-f796-4e47...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Pilot Vladimir Roskovitsky was interviewed after WWI by Robert
>> > Anderson, a member of the Mormon Church.  The aviator had fled Russia
>> > shortly after the Bolshevik Revolution.  Here's the story in
>> > Roskovitsky's own words:
>>
>> Noah's ark has been found by many people in man different places.  Nothing
>> new.......
>
>Well, it's not an easy place to say where it is *exactly*.

Yes, it is very hard to say exactly where something is when it does not
exist.

>I do think
>most of the ones verified by expedition are in the same small area,
>and one relic found (where there are no wood products) was found
>directly below..and surmised dropped or a product of an avalance, or
>earthquake.
>
>It also has been found by many more than this incident...from 700 B.C
>Id'ings through the 20th century, and the reason for no further
>expedition is by Turkish decree of no allowance. Some have Bell
>Helicopters ready when it should be lifted.

How long will they stop Christian fools from wasting money in Turkey?

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 10, 2011, 4:50:12 PM12/10/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1f0acdd1-9bec-43b8...@q9g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 9, 2:11 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
> "wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4f266457-f796-4e47...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Pilot Vladimir Roskovitsky was interviewed after WWI by Robert
> > Anderson, a member of the Mormon Church. The aviator had fled Russia
> > shortly after the Bolshevik Revolution. Here's the story in
> > Roskovitsky's own words:
>
> Noah's ark has been found by many people in man different places. Nothing
> new.......

Well, it's not an easy place to say where it is *exactly*.

* Huh? They've claimed they've seen it, photographed it. How many arks can
there be?

I do think
most of the ones verified by expedition are in the same small area,
and one relic found (where there are no wood products) was found
directly below..and surmised dropped or a product of an avalance, or
earthquake.

* It's not likely any boats or arks survived from those ancient times. At
least non large enough to hold pairs of millions of animals, birds, etc.

It also has been found by many more than this incident...from 700 B.C
Id'ings through the 20th century, and the reason for no further
expedition is by Turkish decree of no allowance. Some have Bell
Helicopters ready when it should be lifted.

* They still do not know what that is in Turkey. It's never been
authenticated scientifically to be an ark from Noah's time.

wg

Ken

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Dec 10, 2011, 4:55:44 PM12/10/11
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On Dec 10, 10:16 am, wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

How about you showing us a lake, any lake on the mountain?

<o)))))>{

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Dec 11, 2011, 12:45:31 AM12/11/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Do you actually believe there was an ark large enough to hold all the
animals on earth?

Greegor

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Dec 12, 2011, 1:19:03 AM12/12/11
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None of them had hysterectomies, Carolyn.

Gunderlin

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Dec 12, 2011, 10:48:08 AM12/12/11
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Are you trying to pick up underage girls on Usenet again Gregory? Is that
legal in Iowa?


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wgroom

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Dec 12, 2011, 2:57:45 PM12/12/11
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It was estimated that the Ark was big enough to hold 500+ boxcars of
whatever. There was three stories with cages and fences by some
discoveries...total height of 75 feet. So that's quite enough for
even taller animals, and you sure wouldn't need to put all the animals
on there, just a smattering of kinds.. goes into in the account of 7
pairs of certain animals, and 2 pair of others....

wg

wgroom

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Dec 12, 2011, 2:53:42 PM12/12/11
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It's been fairly well opined that's its not far from Lake Kop.

wg
Message has been deleted

wgroom

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Dec 12, 2011, 3:04:17 PM12/12/11
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Probably as long as people entrust governments to spend their monies
wisely...

wg

Wombat

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Dec 12, 2011, 3:28:52 PM12/12/11
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Just how does an unpowered wooden barge 450 feet long avoid broaching
to and being rolled over by the world-girdling waves of a global
flood?

Wombat

wgroom

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Dec 12, 2011, 3:03:35 PM12/12/11
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On Dec 10, 4:50 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
> "wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1f0acdd1-9bec-43b8...@q9g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 9, 2:11 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
> wrote:
>
> > "wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:4f266457-f796-4e47...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Pilot Vladimir Roskovitsky was interviewed after WWI by Robert
> > > Anderson, a member of the Mormon Church. The aviator had fled Russia
> > > shortly after the Bolshevik Revolution. Here's the story in
> > > Roskovitsky's own words:
>
> > Noah's ark has been found by many people in man different places. Nothing
> > new.......
>
> Well, it's not an easy place to say where it is *exactly*.
>
> * Huh? They've claimed they've seen it, photographed it.  How many arks can
> there be?
>
Well the photographies have supposedly taken place, but I don't think
that would tell exactly where it was...unless you were using modern
CIA equipment....and that's been purported. Most of those folks
besides the Russians didn't have a lot they could carry up there...

> I do think
> most of the ones verified by expedition are in the same small area,
> and one relic found (where there are no wood products) was found
> directly below..and surmised dropped or a product of an avalance, or
> earthquake.
>
> *  It's not likely any boats or arks survived from those ancient times. At
> least non large enough to hold pairs of millions of animals, birds, etc.
>
Many sightings were exactly as the very flat barge that was described
in the Bible. Many similar things have floated, and the ark was just
not wood as it was told to use tar or bitumen which would preserve as
well as where it landed ..in a glacier of ice...

> It also has been found by many more than this incident...from 700 B.C
> Id'ings through the 20th century, and the reason for no further
> expedition is by Turkish decree of no allowance.  Some have Bell
> Helicopters ready when it should be lifted.
>
> * They still do not know what that is in Turkey.  It's never been
> authenticated scientifically to be an ark from Noah's time.
>
Well, there have been misidentifications as really would be expected.
Many have surmised that it is in ice most of the year and the only
time that it can be seen in a good way is about every 20 years in a
milder than usual summer...

wg

> wg

<o)))))>{

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Dec 13, 2011, 4:08:23 AM12/13/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47466c83-4e0b-4098...@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
* Then it would not hold together. And 8 people could not feed, water and
remove the millions of gallons of urine and millions of tons of feces these
creatures produced each day. Plus, no ship, even today, could hold the
billions of gallons of fresh water needed for all those creatures, plus the
billions of tons to feed for them all.

There was three stories with cages and fences by some
discoveries...total height of 75 feet. So that's quite enough for
even taller animals, and you sure wouldn't need to put all the animals
on there, just a smattering of kinds.. goes into in the account of 7
pairs of certain animals, and 2 pair of others....

* You seem quite ignorant of the needs of animals and what it takes to feed,
water and care for them. A smattering of kinds doesn't work. There are
billions of "kinds" insects and bugs alone.

wg

wgroom

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Dec 13, 2011, 11:26:44 AM12/13/11
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Water would be the least of their worries since it rained

>  There was three stories with cages and fences by some
> discoveries...total height of 75 feet.  So that's quite enough for
> even taller animals, and you sure wouldn't need to put all the animals
> on there, just a smattering of kinds..   goes into in the account of 7
> pairs of certain animals, and 2 pair of others....
>
> * You seem quite ignorant of the needs of animals and what it takes to feed,
> water and care for them.  A smattering of kinds doesn't work.  There are
> billions of "kinds" insects and bugs alone.
>
It was taken into consideration at great length in the book, and
insects wouldn't have have need to board, since they could have
survived on floating debris....

wg

> wg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

wgroom

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Dec 13, 2011, 11:27:56 AM12/13/11
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> Wombat- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Been tested. It works just fine..the experiments and comparisons have
found it to be quite buoyant and non-tumbling.

wg

wgroom

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Dec 13, 2011, 11:31:17 AM12/13/11
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Wombat

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Dec 13, 2011, 1:49:47 PM12/13/11
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Have you a reference for that testing, please?

Wombat

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Dec 13, 2011, 2:05:14 PM12/13/11
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I trust it wasn't Nick Roemer's model of Noah's Ark. There was a part
in the tape where he had to stop it capsizing.

Wombat

Wombat

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Dec 13, 2011, 2:20:57 PM12/13/11
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Correction. It did right itself but all the animals must have been
seriously injured as it whipped back. Weird design as well. The
proportions were nothing like those in Genesis and it's shape meant
internal space was very limited
Any way, a 450 ft long barge does not have the structural integrity of
a block of solid wood. The first big wave would have caused it to
break up. There are good reasons why wooden ships never got to much
more than 330 or so feet in length. They tended to leak massively,
even when reinforced with iron. Most of them sank at sea.

osugeography

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Dec 13, 2011, 2:36:25 PM12/13/11
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Hello wg - considering your claim "many similar things have floated",
please name one wooden vessel of that length that has resisted
hogging, making a wooden ship of that length useable, disregarding
other factors.

Marvin Sebourn
osugeo...@aol.com

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 13, 2011, 4:40:35 PM12/13/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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~~~~~~~~
You're being very dishonest. It was tested with a small model ark in a
small glass tank. I saw the show and read about it. It was a child's toy
for Pete's sake. There was no experiments with a real 450' wooden ark
filled with millions of animals, birds, insects.... plus their food and
water for months in a real sea.

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 13, 2011, 4:43:13 PM12/13/11
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"Wombat" <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:f712131d-42b2-4b41...@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
You can be sure he doesn't. It was a joke. I saw the show on TV some time
back. A small flat boat like a child's toy was floated in a glass aquarium
and when it didn't sink, the creationists claimed the Ark was real and did
float on the sea for months, magically retuning to the same area it came
from. ;-)


Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 13, 2011, 4:46:55 PM12/13/11
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"Wombat" <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:1cf730c2-05e1-4864...@13g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not to mention is wasn't 450' long, taken out on the ocean, and filled with
millions of living creatures plus enough food and water for them for months.
;-) I want to see the creationists build an ark according to bible
directions and fill it with hundreds of thousands of animals.... a few
people to care for them all, plus millions of tons of food and water for
them all. Now that I would really love to see but know I never will.

<o)))))>{

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Dec 13, 2011, 4:53:39 PM12/13/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bf9629aa-fd93-4803...@u5g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
* So he had huge tanks to catch the rain in? How could the rain have been
directed 3 stories to millions of cages and pens? How was the millions of
gallons of urine removed with only 8 people and no electric pumps? Who
removed the millions of tons of manure? Do you realize how many people work
in a zoo with just a fraction of that many creatures? Where did Noah get
the specialized diets needed by so many creatures? How did he keep the
carnivores meat fresh for months with no refrigeration?


> There was three stories with cages and fences by some
> discoveries...total height of 75 feet. So that's quite enough for
> even taller animals, and you sure wouldn't need to put all the animals
> on there, just a smattering of kinds.. goes into in the account of 7
> pairs of certain animals, and 2 pair of others....
>
> * You seem quite ignorant of the needs of animals and what it takes to
> feed,
> water and care for them. A smattering of kinds doesn't work. There are
> billions of "kinds" insects and bugs alone.
>

It was taken into consideration at great length in the book, and
insects wouldn't have have need to board, since they could have
survived on floating debris....

* Where they would have starved to death quickly before being blown or
washed off the debris. Or did Noah feed them also? Apparently the writer
is just as ignorant since he doesn't know that most insects and bugs and
earthworms and grubs cannot live on floating debris in pouring rain with no
food for months. There is no excuse for his ignorance in this day and age,
or yours.


ken

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Dec 13, 2011, 5:12:57 PM12/13/11
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On Dec 13, 1:43 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
Geez!....You mean that's NOT enough "scientific" proof 4U?

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 13, 2011, 10:58:39 PM12/13/11
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"ken" <flak...@att.net> wrote in message
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Hey, the creationists called it a scientific discovery of great importance.
;-) A toy boat in an aquarium no less.

Pastor Dave, Th.D.

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Dec 14, 2011, 8:03:26 AM12/14/11
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:31:17 -0800 (PST), wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com>
said:
Interestingly enough, since most people do not know their Bibles,
they do not realize that the Bible does not say that Noah's Ark
came to rest on "Mt Ararat", but rather, "the mountains of Ararat".

There is a difference, since "Ararat" is both *A* mountain and also
"a mountain *RANGE*, of course, with Mt Ararat being within the
"Ararat mountain range".

So while Mt Ararat is the most likely candidate, it is possible that
it is simply somewhere within the Ararat mountain _range_.

I have not read this web page's article yet, but I get nervous
when I see the following on it;

"The Warnings to mankind from Jesus Christ and the Blessed
Virgin Mary in 20TH CENTURY APPROVED APPARITIONS and
the Food For Thought sections, consisting of 30 articles for
nourishing the souls of mankind."

I am however, very familiar with this sighting and while I can't
remember for sure if it was the President himself that saw it
flying over in Air Force One, it was a government jet that flew
over and saw it and there are satellite images of it (CIA, I think).

A couple of these images have recently been released through
the FoIA, but there is one more, that is much better, that is
still being withheld (remember, these satellites can watch a
man peel an orange from space and know that's what he's doing)
and there have been government employees/politicians who have
seen them and have confirmed that it looks like Noah's Ark is up
there. And these, through independent sources (non-religious)
and I saw/heard them say it myself through a secular docu-hunt
and through other sources for verification as well.

As for me, until I see that last, closer up satellite photo, I simply
can't be sure. But from the distance I saw it, it sure does look
like it! Although some do claim it is nothing more than a rock
formation. I don't tend to buy this concept, as the "formation"
would be going against the grain of what surrounds it.

Anyway, I'm open to all reasoned information about it.

--

Pastor Dave, Th.D.

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

"There are two kinds of men who never amount to much:
those who cannot do what they are told and those who
can do nothing else." - Cyrus H. Curtis

osugeography

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Dec 14, 2011, 10:22:32 AM12/14/11
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On Dec 14, 7:03 am, "Pastor Dave, Th.D."
<news_group_m...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:31:17 -0800 (PST), wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com>
> said:
>
> > Recent purported finding of ark from a few days ago...
>
> >http://global.christianpost.com/news/overwhelming-evidence-of-noahs-a...
> The best Bible software:http://www.theword.net/is free!
>
> "There are two kinds of men who never amount to much:
>  those who cannot do what they are told and those who
>  can do nothing else." - Cyrus H. Curtis

Hello, Pastor Dave. In regards to your writing

"Although some do claim it is nothing more than a rock
formation. I don't tend to buy this concept, as the "formation"
would be going against the grain of what surrounds it."

Geologically, but in layperson's terms, there are many "formations
that ... (are) going against the grain of what surrounds it (them)." I
would ask that you look at pictures of a doubly plunging syncline.
That is very similar to what is shown in many of the pictures. I have
seen one in southern Oklahoma, but do not have the location or
pictures here at hand, although I am reasonably confident that I can
find the information. This large scale formation is unusual, but
certainly not unique. I'll look and check back here.

Marvin

Marvin Sebourn
osugeo...@aol.com

wgroom

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Dec 14, 2011, 10:50:57 AM12/14/11
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> osugeogra...@aol.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Chapter 8 of In Search of Noah's Ark by Balsiger has a history of
boatmaking from early civilizations to the present. It also has a lab
from Southern Calif that tested to their satisfaction of 'the vessel'
being able to safely take on a 200 ft. wave.

wg

wgroom

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Dec 14, 2011, 10:51:39 AM12/14/11
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On Dec 13, 4:40 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
I'm reading a book. It has lots of testings and footnotes. Give it a
read.

wg

wgroom

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Dec 14, 2011, 10:52:41 AM12/14/11
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On Dec 13, 4:46 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
> them all.  Now that I would really love to see but know I never will.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well the logistics are well taken into consideration in the In Search
of Noah's Ark book....

wg

wgroom

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Dec 14, 2011, 10:59:00 AM12/14/11
to
They had to have air and light which was in the design. Likely the
lower floor was used for waste and storage. They had 125 years to get
it ready, the instructions to take food aboard. As far as the
carnivores, Biblicists know of the prophecy in Isa. 11 where God will
change eating habits of those type of animals for the "new earth." He
could have changed it then. It sure wouldn't be out of the realm of
thinking to just take extra animals to be used for eating.

> > There was three stories with cages and fences by some
> > discoveries...total height of 75 feet. So that's quite enough for
> > even taller animals, and you sure wouldn't need to put all the animals
> > on there, just a smattering of kinds.. goes into in the account of 7
> > pairs of certain animals, and 2 pair of others....
>
> > * You seem quite ignorant of the needs of animals and what it takes to
> > feed,
> > water and care for them. A smattering of kinds doesn't work. There are
> > billions of "kinds" insects and bugs alone.
>
> It was taken into consideration at great length in the book, and
> insects wouldn't have have need to board, since they could have
> survived on floating debris....
>
> * Where they would have starved to death quickly before being blown or
> washed off the debris.  Or did Noah feed them also?  Apparently the writer
> is just as ignorant since he doesn't know that most insects and bugs and
> earthworms and grubs cannot live on floating debris in pouring rain with no
> food for months.  There is no excuse for his ignorance in this day and age,
> or yours.- Hide quoted text -
>
Too skeptical. I am sure some of the debris had food sources. I have
seen rats in a room survive on eating a mattress.

wg

ken

unread,
Dec 14, 2011, 11:06:44 AM12/14/11
to
On Dec 14, 7:51 am, wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm reading a book.  It has lots of testings and footnotes.  Give it a
> read.
>
> wg

Fiction, we shall assume

wgroom

unread,
Dec 14, 2011, 11:10:06 AM12/14/11
to
On Dec 14, 8:03 am, "Pastor Dave, Th.D."
<news_group_m...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:31:17 -0800 (PST), wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com>
> said:
>
> > Recent purported finding of ark from a few days ago...
>
> >http://global.christianpost.com/news/overwhelming-evidence-of-noahs-a...
>
> Interestingly enough, since most people do not know their Bibles,
> they do not realize that the Bible does not say that Noah's Ark
> came to rest on "Mt Ararat", but rather, "the mountains of Ararat".
>
> There is a difference, since "Ararat" is both *A* mountain and also
> "a mountain *RANGE*, of course, with Mt Ararat being within the
> "Ararat mountain range".
>
True, and there is a Big Ararat and a Little Ararat. It's purported
to be between them...Lake Kop has come up a lot in explorer logs.



> So while Mt Ararat is the most likely candidate, it is possible that
> it is simply somewhere within the Ararat mountain _range_.
>
> I have not read this web page's article yet, but I get nervous
> when I see the following on it;
>
Sticking with the facts is the best bet. I don't agree with
everything little statement in the book, but I do think there is great
appreciation to be had in a lot of scientific as well as archeological
stuff, if not fact, to be well thought of in the least.

> "The Warnings to mankind from Jesus Christ and the Blessed
>  Virgin Mary in 20TH CENTURY APPROVED APPARITIONS and
>  the Food For Thought sections, consisting of 30 articles for
>  nourishing the souls of mankind."
>
> I am however, very familiar with this sighting and while I can't
> remember for sure if it was the President himself that saw it
> flying over in Air Force One, it was a government jet that flew
> over and saw it and there are satellite images of it (CIA, I think).
>
I think that's in the book....(I have two)..anyway I just read it, and
can't remember the President. Carter would be my bet.

> A couple of these images have recently been released through
> the FoIA, but there is one more, that is much better, that is
> still being withheld (remember, these satellites can watch a
> man peel an orange from space and know that's what he's doing)
> and there have been government employees/politicians who have
> seen them and have confirmed that it looks like Noah's Ark is up
> there.  And these, through independent sources (non-religious)
> and I saw/heard them say it myself through a secular docu-hunt
> and through other sources for verification as well.
>
> As for me, until I see that last, closer up satellite photo, I simply
> can't be sure.  But from the distance I saw it, it sure does look
> like it!  Although some do claim it is nothing more than a rock
> formation.  I don't tend to buy this concept, as the "formation"
> would be going against the grain of what surrounds it.
>
Jesus and Peter are fine enough for me. Of course I would like to see
a little more and not depend on the accounts. I do think the
Intelligence agencies would have photos, like you suggest. I don't
think of them as godly and like the suggestion made about the Russian
Revolution which was a revolution of infusing atheism, that could have
a bearing on getting at what was a huge find back then. Remember,
Satan "is the ruler of the world" and as Revelation suggests, over all
the kingdoms past and present. So, I could never put it past that
element just going up there secretly and getting rid of the evidence
if that were possible...

wg

> Anyway, I'm open to all reasoned information about it.
>
> --
>
> Pastor Dave, Th.D.
>
> The best Bible software:http://www.theword.net/is free!

osugeography

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Dec 14, 2011, 12:35:00 PM12/14/11
to
wg:


Did you show that a wooden vessel of that length would resist hogging?
No

Did you quote the book in regards to the chapter on a history of
boatbuilding, showing the practicality of a wooden boat of that size?
No

Did you give references about the So Cal lab, and the "tests"?
No

Do you mention anything about the physical form and dynamics of this
"200 ft. wave"?
No

Did you mention that "In Search of Noah's Ark" was published 35 years
ago?
No

Did you in any manner address the question of my post?
No

Do I believe the "take on a 200 ft. wave" story?
No

Especially not, because I personally own, and have read much of
(sometimes completely) the following books on large waves and their
effects on ocean-going craft:

"Rogue Waves in the Ocean" Kharif, et. al. 2010
"Extreme Waves" Smith and Mueller, 2010, Kindle edition with Mueller.
Earlier print, Smith only 2006.
"The Wave - In Pursuit of the Rogues, Freaks, and Giants of the Ocean"
Casey, 2010
“The Power of the Sea: Tsunamis, Storm Surges, Rogue Waves…” Parker,
2010

Does the claim that the "vessel" could successfully take on a 200 ft.
wave" have any bearing whatsoever upon the reality of the construction
of a Biblical Ark, of that size
No

Do I believe you to be a troll?
Yes

Marvin Sebourn
osugeo...@aol.com

Wombat

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Dec 14, 2011, 12:39:01 PM12/14/11
to
So, they tested a model, did they. The only ones I seen so far are a
solid block of wood and a metal model. A 450 ft wooden ship is well
beyond the capability even of the Royal Navy constructors. Ships of
330 ft leaked like sieves, even when stiffened with metal riders, and
often sank.

"In March 2001 in the South Atlantic, a sheer wall of water almost
100 feet tall smashed into the cruise ship Caledonian Star, smashing
windows and flooding the command deck.

Weeks earlier, another cruise ship in the same waters, the Bremen,
suffered a similar fate. The Bremen was left drifting without
navigation or propulsion for two hours."

From http://www.mytravelreviews.co.uk/2005/04/freak-waves-story-and-qe2.html

Yet your 450ft wooden barge can survive a 200 ft wave? Please forgive
me if I find that most unlikely.
How does you barge stand up to the hogging and sagging that it would
encounter. You seem to ignore that when another poster asked.

Gunderlin

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Dec 14, 2011, 2:56:27 PM12/14/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ae41886-b203-4c64...@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me remind you they used small TOY boats in glass aquariums for these
"tests" and not real wood 400" Arks full of animals. Millions of animals
plus all their food and water, and out on the seas. There is no comparison.
Why do you insist there is?

-----------
usenet FREE-----> news://gall.mine.nu
Comics----------> http://gall.mine.nu/comics
java-chat-------> http://gall.mine.nu/c
PEERING---------> normal perring are available <> or offline peering uucp-bag by email
---------------- http://gall.mine.nu/peering
torrent---------> http://gall.mine.nu:55555

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 14, 2011, 3:05:11 PM12/14/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d6c7f9f-5c8b-4936...@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Really? And the book was written by someone who had a 450' wooden Ark built
and he took it out into the high seas with millions of living creatures to
care for? I know of no such book.



Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 14, 2011, 3:08:29 PM12/14/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:21deecad-6bb3-4fbf...@z1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Testing with a real 450' wood Ark filled with millions of animals, taken out
on the high seas in severe rain storms and only 8 people to take care of all
the animals? Do you realize how many employees Zoos have to have just to
make up the diets of all the animals they have? That they have a tiny
fraction of what Noah would have had on the Ark? And just what credentials
does the author have?

osugeography

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Dec 14, 2011, 3:09:56 PM12/14/11
to
> Fromhttp://www.mytravelreviews.co.uk/2005/04/freak-waves-story-and-qe2.html
>
> Yet your 450ft wooden barge can survive a 200 ft wave?  Please forgive
> me if I find that most unlikely.
> How does you barge stand up to the hogging and sagging that it would
> encounter.  You seem to ignore that when another poster asked.

Hi Wombat, I remember seeing a coastal schooner, NE coast of USA,
which had hogged so badly, and leaked so much, that to sail from port
to port and remain afloat, the ship featured a large windmill on deck,
rigged to pump out the holds. I guess that when becalmed, it was all
hands to the pumps...

Marvin

Zebulon's Spade

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Dec 14, 2011, 3:17:13 PM12/14/11
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"ken" <flak...@att.net> wrote in message
news:2915c300-fe7b-4a2c...@s10g2000prs.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can be sure he's reading a book written by a Creationist with no
background, no education in oceanography, ship building/engineering,
zoology, biology etc.

How anyone, in this day and age, believes the Noah story and takes it
literally amazes me. Common sense alone would make them know it would not
be possible for 8 people to collect the millions of creatures from all over
the earth, plus their special diets and somehow get them to the Ark.
Creationists have a great deal of trouble explaining how this could have
happened. And no ship or Ark or barge would be able to hold them all plus
all the food necessary for months at a time. Have you noticed they never
reply when asked how the millions of tons of urine and feces were removed
from this Ark? Especially from the lower levels where the ammonia buildup
would be deadly in days?


--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

<o)))))>{

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Dec 14, 2011, 3:22:13 PM12/14/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4794745-c0c9-4e38...@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~
Why not be skeptical when a story makes no sense? And you have seen wrong.
There is no nutrition in mattresses unless stuffed with grass. And if the
rats got into the room, they can excape the room. The rats would starve on
cloth or cotton alone in a mattress. What did they do for water? Was there
a convenient bowl of water there for them in this room? There is no
comparison to insects and bugs on debris in the middle of the ocean in
pouring rain for months. You're grasping at straws as you sink

Wombat

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Dec 14, 2011, 4:03:16 PM12/14/11
to
Ouch! The owner must have been desperate to keep a death trap like
that afloat. I read about the very large schooners with iron
strengthening that leaked so badly that they never sailed out of sight
of land in case the incoming water overcame the pumps and they had to
be beached to stop them from sinking.
HMS Victoria, the last commissioned wooden ship of the line in the RN
also had iron riders. The librarian at the Naval Historical Branch, a
UK government department, said it was to stop the primitive steam
engines from shaking the stern off the ship! These bozos think a
Bronze Age 450ft wooden barge could survive a year in a world girdling
flood with rain coming down at ten ft per hour for 40 days and not
lose a single animal.

Ken

unread,
Dec 14, 2011, 4:07:21 PM12/14/11
to
On Dec 14, 1:03 pm, Wombat <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote:
> These bozos think a
> Bronze Age 450ft wooden barge could survive a year in a world girdling
> flood with rain coming down at ten ft per hour for 40 days and not
> lose a single animal.

Anything can happen, in fairy tales!

Gunderlin

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Dec 14, 2011, 5:41:48 PM12/14/11
to

"Wombat" <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:f11de537-1926-42da...@f39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

Ouch! The owner must have been desperate to keep a death trap like
that afloat. I read about the very large schooners with iron
strengthening that leaked so badly that they never sailed out of sight
of land in case the incoming water overcame the pumps and they had to
be beached to stop them from sinking.
HMS Victoria, the last commissioned wooden ship of the line in the RN
also had iron riders. The librarian at the Naval Historical Branch, a
UK government department, said it was to stop the primitive steam
engines from shaking the stern off the ship! These bozos think a
Bronze Age 450ft wooden barge could survive a year in a world girdling
flood with rain coming down at ten ft per hour for 40 days and not
lose a single animal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One of these bozos is claiming the insects and bugs lived off debris
floating in the waters as the rain poured down upon them. This is how
far-out they'll go to keep their fantasy alive. First 99.9% of them would
have been washed into the roiling seas. The rest, if any did find a place
to hide in a bit of debris would have starved to death after months afloat.
One in a billion may have found debris edible.

They never address the problem of how 8 people not only fed and watered all
those creatures, but how the millions of tons of urine and manure were
removed from this Ark each day. Or where the many tons of feed and special
diet foods were stored to feed all the creatures.

Gunderlin

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Dec 14, 2011, 5:42:42 PM12/14/11
to

"Ken" <flak...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0db7b7b5-654a-494a...@b14g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
The entire story is based in an even older myth known as the Epic of
Gilgamish.

Pastor Dave, Th.D.

unread,
Dec 15, 2011, 11:00:31 AM12/15/11
to
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 07:22:32 -0800 (PST), osugeography
<osugeo...@aol.com> said:


> Pastor Dave, Th.D. wrote:
>
>> wgroom said:
>>
>>> Recent purported finding of ark
>>> from a few days ago...
>>>
>>> http://global.christianpost.com/news/overwhelming-evidence-of-noahs-ark-discovery-featured-on-website-64492/
>>
>> As for me, until I see that last, closer up satellite photo,
>> I simply can't be sure.  But from the distance I saw it,
>> it sure does look like it!  Although some do claim it is
>> nothing more than a rock formation.  I don't tend to
>> buy this concept, as the "formation" would be going
>> against the grain of what surrounds it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm open to all reasoned information about it.
>
> Hello, Pastor Dave.

Hello. :)


> In regards to your writing...
>
> "Although some do claim it is nothing more than
> a rock formation. I don't tend to buy this concept,
> as the 'formation' would be going against the
> grain of what surrounds it."
>
> Geologically, but in layperson's terms,

Just FYI, while I do not claim to be a Geologist, I am
also not strange to the subject of geology either and
I have carefully examined the responses of others,
who are experts in this field and who do know what
they're talking about, so I can have a conversation
about this with you here. :)


> there are many "formations that ... (are) going
> against the grain of what surrounds it (them)."

It does happen. But let me note a couple of points:

1) I did not say that it cannot be a rock formation.
I said, "I do not TEND to buy it". In other words,
I do not LEAN that way. Sorry for any confusion.

2) And after I said that, I had also said (quoted above);
"I'm open to all reasoned information about it.",
which is what I assume by your tone of writing
that you are attempting to do now and I am
of course, happy to address such reasoned answers.

3) Your comment makes it seem as if this should be
the normal thinking when one sees a formation
that runs in the opposite direction of that which
surrounds it, by the use of the word, "many".
But "many", compared to what number?

You see, "many" just isn't "many" (meaning most),
when there are "many more" that don't, now is it.
At that point, "many", becomes "some of them",
as at that point, it becomes a comparative term.
I.e., a percentage that is smaller than those that
don't go against the grain, now doesn't it. :)

Back to my comments in response to your response...

So for me, while it does indeed occur, we must also take
into account the size of this "against the grain formation"
if that's what it is and that this would indeed be an
uncommon occurrence (relatively), not a common one,
which is why it's being observed as an uncommon thing
to see there, but not discounted as a possibility and
neither am I discounting it as such.

As I said, I have not reached a conclusion here and remain
open to any and all reasoned responses, including yours.

And that is how this should be viewed. As an unknown.
Conclusions should not be reached until knowledge that
allows for an absolute conclusion is gained. And in fact,
we cannot even say that it is only two possibilities there
(rock formation/Noah's Ark). It could be something else
entirely, could it not? We should be open to anything. :)

And as for what they conclude, as a general statement,
I agree with them that it should be considered as follows
and I state now my agreement by saying;

"It could be nothing more than a rock formation,
but it is strange enough that it warrants some
further examination and I state that this to be
(at this time) a fair assessment of this situation."


> I would ask that you look at pictures of a doubly
> plunging syncline.

Yes, I understand that and as I said, you have no need
to try to "convince me away from it being Noah's Ark",
as I have not concluded it to be Noah's Ark at this point
in time at least and it could be exactly what you state
as a possibility; that it is a "doubly plunging syncline".


> That is very similar to what is shown in many
> of the pictures.

I agree. :)


> I have seen one in southern Oklahoma, but do not
> have the location, or pictures here at hand, although
> I am reasonably confident that I can find the information.

No need to. I know that they look similar. :)


> This large scale formation is unusual, but certainly
> not unique. I'll look and check back here.

Okay, but FYI, I don't question what you said just now.
And I like that you said that it is "unusual, but not unique".

And I believe that I have said the same thing (about it
possibly being a formation that goes against the grain)
and hope that I have made this much clearer now. :)

The bottom line is, I don't know what it is and anyone
who says; "I know what it is for a fact!" is flat out
either lying, or deluded!

But I do find it strange that it is located where it is
and can easily be seen as looking like a large boat!

Don't you think that's worth some further investigation,
given the amazing implications of it?! How can science
turn its back on such an investigation, as it has so far
(and consistently does when it might have to face the
conclusion that it doesn't fit into the godless preassumed
doctrines of atheistic scientists, which is not the same as
saying "science", but they pretend it is), simply because
it might lead to a conclusion that makes them edgy?!

Don't you think that we should begin with;

"I don't know and it would be unscientific to exclude
anything at this point and this is worth investigation."

...as our premise?

It is at least worth wanting to see this other, amazingly
close up picture of this "anomaly", is it not? :)

I hope that you are not one of those people (and I am
not accusing you of being one of them) whose curiosity
stops when it comes to something that may end up
proving a Biblical statement (which again, I am not
accusing you of being).

You seem like a very reasonable fellow to me and I look
forward to further reasoned discussions with you (both
regarding this subject and hopefully on other subjects),
which unfortunately, is something that I just don't find
much of in news groups. :)

--

Pastor Dave, Th.D.

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

We are born wet, naked and hungry. Then things get worse.

Pastor Dave, Th.D.

unread,
Dec 15, 2011, 11:04:22 AM12/15/11
to
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:10:06 -0800 (PST), wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com>
That sounds right to me and I agree with everything
you said above. :)


>> A couple of these images have recently been released through
>> the FoIA, but there is one more, that is much better, that is
>> still being withheld (remember, these satellites can watch a
>> man peel an orange from space and know that's what he's doing)
>> and there have been government employees/politicians who have
>> seen them and have confirmed that it looks like Noah's Ark is up
>> there.  And these, through independent sources (non-religious)
>> and I saw/heard them say it myself through a secular docu-hunt
>> and through other sources for verification as well.
>>
>> As for me, until I see that last, closer up satellite photo, I simply
>> can't be sure.  But from the distance I saw it, it sure does look
>> like it!  Although some do claim it is nothing more than a rock
>> formation.  I don't tend to buy this concept, as the "formation"
>> would be going against the grain of what surrounds it.
>
>Jesus and Peter are fine enough for me. Of course I would like to see
>a little more and not depend on the accounts. I do think the
>Intelligence agencies would have photos, like you suggest.

They do. It's a fact. There is a shot that is much close up
and has great resolution, that they have refused to release
under the FoIA, citing "national security". Huh? :)


> I don't
>think of them as godly and like the suggestion made about the Russian
>Revolution which was a revolution of infusing atheism, that could have
>a bearing on getting at what was a huge find back then. Remember,
>Satan "is the ruler of the world" and as Revelation suggests, over all
>the kingdoms past and present. So, I could never put it past that
>element just going up there secretly and getting rid of the evidence
>if that were possible...

We would disagree here, as I do not read the Bible
as if it were written yesterday and therefore, all time
statements, no matter what they are, apply today.

No offense. I'm just saying, is all. :)

--

Pastor Dave, Th.D.

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

You're only as sick as your secrets.

wgroom

unread,
Dec 15, 2011, 1:05:56 PM12/15/11
to
Who's "we", and why assume?

wg

wgroom

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Dec 15, 2011, 1:08:02 PM12/15/11
to
Do I believe you to be a cheapskate that won't buy a book and look
into something? Yes

Do I believe that you won't look into anything online, scientific on
the matter? Yes

Do I believe that people will want to be other peoples librarians for
their convenience and reasons to troll? Yes.

Anything else?....:)

wg

wgroom

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Dec 15, 2011, 1:11:34 PM12/15/11
to
On Dec 14, 3:05 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
> care for?  I know of no such book.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Carrying cargo is not very compelling. It's done all the time and
Archimedes is quite depended on for massive tonnage.

wg

wgroom

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Dec 15, 2011, 1:15:08 PM12/15/11
to
> pouring rain for months.  You're grasping at straws as you sink- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Think of big trees floating in the water. Yum, yum, eat em up.

wg

wgroom

unread,
Dec 15, 2011, 1:26:52 PM12/15/11
to
On Dec 15, 11:04 am, "Pastor Dave, Th.D."
Well it seems they would have had some shots in these last few decades
for sure. From Area 51 to Ft. Knox., almost everthing high gov't
wants to do secretly, they do. Why they would keep that a secret can
only mean some sort of ulterior motive for me.


> > I don't
> >think of them as godly and like the suggestion made about the Russian
> >Revolution which was a revolution of infusing atheism, that could have
> >a bearing on getting at what was a huge find back then.  Remember,
> >Satan "is the ruler of the world" and as Revelation suggests, over all
> >the kingdoms past and present.  So, I could never put it past that
> >element just going up there secretly and getting rid of the evidence
> >if that were possible...
>
> We would disagree here, as I do not read the Bible
> as if it were written yesterday and therefore, all time
> statements, no matter what they are, apply today.
>
Well when Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world for an
enticement for a test of faith, I believe the account...

and that's all I am going to say..

wg

> No offense.  I'm just saying, is all. :)
>
> --
>
> Pastor Dave, Th.D.
>
> The best Bible software:http://www.theword.net/is free!
>
> You're only as sick as your secrets.- Hide quoted text -

wgroom

unread,
Dec 15, 2011, 1:12:24 PM12/15/11
to
On Dec 14, 3:08 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
> does the author have?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why don't you spend the under a $1 amount and get it. The scientific
verifications would take up a lot of time.

wg

ken

unread,
Dec 15, 2011, 1:43:25 PM12/15/11
to
On Dec 15, 10:26 am, wgroom <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote thjis shit:

> Well when Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world for an
> enticement for a test of faith, I believe the account...

Damn!
Are you ever fucked up or what?
Do you also believe in santa, the easter bunny, the great pumpkin, the
tooth fairy, fairy godparents and pink unicorns too?

wgroom

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Dec 15, 2011, 1:14:04 PM12/15/11
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On Dec 14, 3:17 pm, "Zebulon's Spade" <Inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> "ken" <flakey...@att.net> wrote in message
> --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to n...@netfront.net ---

I guess when a ______ quotes for all sources of the sciences to all
your little issues, it wouldn't make a difference.

wg

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 15, 2011, 4:34:16 PM12/15/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:372cd37e-fbd7-469a...@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 14, 3:05 pm, "Hairy Sasquatch" <HairySasqua...@ARJ-W.land>
wrote:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Really? And the book was written by someone who had a 450' wooden Ark
> built
> and he took it out into the high seas with millions of living creatures to
> care for? I know of no such book.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Carrying cargo is not very compelling. It's done all the time and
Archimedes is quite depended on for massive tonnage.

wg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What has that got to do with useless tests using toy boats in a small glass
aquarium and claiming they proved the Ark story?

Hairy Sasquatch

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Dec 15, 2011, 4:37:39 PM12/15/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a61fb53-b5d3-48f6...@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's less than $1? Where? And what scientific experiments, with real arks
fileld with millions of animals, backs the author's claims as to how such a
large boat made of wood could survive the open seas in horrific rain storms?
And how does he explain how only 8 people cared for millions of animals
supposedly on board? How does he explain the removal of millions of tons of
urine and feces every day?

Zebulon's Spade

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Dec 15, 2011, 4:43:08 PM12/15/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:04e5cf2a-10c7-4bde...@d10g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What "little" issues? You statement makes no sense. Feeding millions of
living creatures and removing their waste is not a little issue. It can
mean life of death in a matter of hours if not a few days. Why don't you
just answer the questions all your Christian bro's and sisters pretend they
don't see or simply run away from?



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

<o)))))>{

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Dec 15, 2011, 4:57:31 PM12/15/11
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"wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b30bbcc5-b5f1-4a0f...@u5g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 14, 3:22 pm, "<o\)\)\)\)\)>{" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> "wgroom" <wgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b4794745-c0c9-4e38...@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 4:53 pm, "<o\)\)\)\)\)>{" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > * So he had huge tanks to catch the rain in? How could the rain have
> > been
> > directed 3 stories to millions of cages and pens? How was the millions
> > of
> > gallons of urine removed with only 8 people and no electric pumps? Who
> > removed the millions of tons of manure? Do you realize how many people
> > work
> > in a zoo with just a fraction of that many creatures? Where did Noah get
> > the specialized diets needed by so many creatures? How did he keep the
> > carnivores meat fresh for months with no refrigeration?
>
> They had to have air and light which was in the design. Likely the
> lower floor was used for waste and storage.

No, wrong.... the ammonia and other gasses from the decomposition from
millions of tons of waste would kill everything on the ark in days. And why
are you just guessing? Have you looked up the gasses that escape from tons
of animal feces and urine? How deadly they are?


They had 125 years to get
> it ready, the instructions to take food aboard.

Where is the scientific evidence the Ark was so huge it help millions of
tons of feed and fresh water for the animals? Rain falling on the roof
doesn't get it when there would be millions of water buckets to fill and
haul to the cages. Where was the refrigeration units to preserve the tons
of meat for the obligate carnivores?

As far as the
> carnivores, Biblicists know of the prophecy in Isa. 11 where God will
> change e