No, no, it's a Feature!
Steve VanDevender
> "Thu Apr 3 07:55:37 CST [monitor.brokenDisk.notice:notice]:
> When a disk is broken,
> the system shuts down automatically every 24
> hours to encourage you to replace the disk.
> If you reboot the system it will run for another
> 24 hours before shutting down."
>
> Yes, we have a disk that is failed. But it takes 24 hours to get a new one
> from Argncc.
Ah, yes. We encountered this same brilliant strategy in our old QRP
UFM40. When the backup battery for the RAID array's RAM cache failed,
it would disable the cache, run for ten hours, then stop. If you
rebooted it, it would run for another ten hours. This was all nicely
documented in the manual, except for an explanation of the rationale
behind this insane behavior.
This later led to my favorite computer-related catch-22 ever. After the
QRP field circus guy replaced the RAM cache battery, we had a dialogue
with the UFM40 that went something like this:
Field Circus, to QFM40: "Restart yourself."
QFM40: "I cannot restart, there is unflushed data in the cache."
FC: "OK, flush the cache."
QFM40: "There is no data in the cache to flush."
FC: "OK, then restart."
QFM40: "I cannot restart, there is unflushed data in the cache."
Etc.
The field circus guy then did some frob to the controller that forced it
to restart, but it came up thinking all the RAID sets needed resyncing,
and when it was done about half of them contained something reminiscent
of the output of /dev/random.
This led to an adventure with Yrtngb Argjbexre that I don't even want to
think about, let alone recount.
We now have some Fha N1000 RAID controllers. We attempted a storage
upgrade by backing up the data in one, replacing all the disks with
higher-capacity disks, recreating LUNs, then trying to copy all the data
back.
This went great until it went completely catatonic partway through the
restore process. When restarting the incomplete restores, it went
catatonic again. And then again after that. Eventually we were able to
finish copying everything back, and things have been fine since.
We later found out that although the N1000 management software will tell
you it is "Nominal" right after you create the LUNs on a new set of
disks, it is has really gone off to format the LUNs in the background,
and if you copy data into the device while this is in progress there is
a certain chance it will go catatonic. Fha actually knows about this,
but doesn't bother to document it, or fix their software so that the
unit will not claim it is "Nominal" until it is really truly nominal.
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://jcomm.uoregon.edu/~stevev
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> So we boot it back up and it happily displays a message that states:
>
> "Thu Apr 3 07:55:37 CST [monitor.brokenDisk.notice:notice]:
> When a disk is broken,
> the system shuts down automatically every 24
> hours to encourage you to replace the disk.
> If you reboot the system it will run for another
> 24 hours before shutting down."
Cue opposite story...
A friend of mine had a system crash with a hard drive failure, even
though they were using a RAID system that allows a drive to fail and
to be hotswapped.
"How?" you say? Simple... It was the _second_ drive to fail. It
turns out they had a drive failure months ago and never noticed, as
the RAID system went happily on its way, doing what it was supposed
to be doing. (Unfortunately, it turns out they had lowered the level
of error reporting, so the system console never got notified of the
first failure.)
--
+---------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth | kenbrody at spamcop.net | "The opinions expressed |
| J. | http://www.hvcomputer.com | herein are not necessarily |
| Brody | http://www.fptech.com | those of fP Technologies." |
+---------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Graham Reed
> This later led to my favorite computer-related catch-22 ever. After the
> QRP field circus guy replaced the RAM cache battery, we had a dialogue
> with the UFM40 that went something like this:
>
> Field Circus, to QFM40: "Restart yourself."
> QFM40: "I cannot restart, there is unflushed data in the cache."
> FC: "OK, flush the cache."
> QFM40: "There is no data in the cache to flush."
> FC: "OK, then restart."
> QFM40: "I cannot restart, there is unflushed data in the cache."
I had this same argument with AIX, an RS/6000 and a SSA card that was
not the one I specced out. (I just wanted one that worked, not the
ooh-fancy-RAM-cache one.)
Except the RS/6000 wouldn't vary on the volume group after the reboot.
No 10-hour grace period or anything. And you couldn't fsck it,
because the controller wouldn't write to a drive which had a pending
write in the cache.
Couldn't write the cache, it's the cache that b0rked. (I could care
less if it was the battery or something more... terminal in the RAM.)
My fix? I didn't want the damn thing in the first place, so I pulled
the whole damn cache off the SSA card and told the whole volume group
to go fsck itself. A bit later (lunch, coffee, Quake) everything was
happy, and I put the stuipd cache in my drawer and left it there.
Who invented those dumb things anyway?
--
"Oh no, not again."
-- bowl of petunias
Bron Gondwana
Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Cue opposite story...
>
> A friend of mine had a system crash with a hard drive failure, even
> though they were using a RAID system that allows a drive to fail and
> to be hotswapped.
>
> "How?" you say? Simple... It was the _second_ drive to fail. It
> turns out they had a drive failure months ago and never noticed, as
> the RAID system went happily on its way, doing what it was supposed
> to be doing. (Unfortunately, it turns out they had lowered the level
> of error reporting, so the system console never got notified of the
> first failure.)
I hope the luser didn't expect any sympathy. People like that would
be much better off with a single spindle.
Bron.
FeatheredFrog
ITYM s/off/on
"Don't get mad, get Vlad!"
--
an ancient pond
a frog jumps in
the sound of water
http://www.ancientpond.com/
Richard Bos
> A friend of mine had a system crash with a hard drive failure, even
> though they were using a RAID system that allows a drive to fail and
> to be hotswapped.
>
> "How?" you say? Simple... It was the _second_ drive to fail. It
> turns out they had a drive failure months ago and never noticed, as
> the RAID system went happily on its way, doing what it was supposed
> to be doing.
The blinkenlichten on the front of the RAID system are not there for
nothing, you know. When you walk into that room, the single orange LED
among the green ones is supposed to catch your subconscious eye even if
you haven't had your morning caffeine yet. It did for me, once, and in
doing so saved my database and probably that week's newspapers.
> (Unfortunately, it turns out they had lowered the level
> of error reporting, so the system console never got notified of the
> first failure.)
All I can say is that some people deserve all the fscking they get.
Richard
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 01:23 AM, Bron Gondwana <br...@brong.net> said:
>I hope the luser didn't expect any sympathy. People like that would
>be much better off with a single spindle.
Inserted with what orientation?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
Back in the old days, before FIDO, when men were men and
sheep were scared, there were some real flames
Mike Andrews
> But now we have a SAN, and everything sucks in more interesting ways -
> such as our FC4700 throwing a tantrum every other month and disabling
> its cache for a few seconds every minute or so, or entire controllers
> BSODing (their "microcode" is embedded NT). Or failovers failing to
^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^
> happen on DMP-attached suns.
Excuse me, but I think I just read something in which you state that the
"microcode" for your SAN is embedded NT.
Just Why The FSCK Would Any Sane Person Buy something in which the
"microcode" is embedded NT?
Please note carefully that I'm _NOT_ asking why any supposedly-sane
person would _design_ something in which the "microcode" is embedded
NT. I know better.
When that happens, notus lotes is
> unhappy. And here is *my* favorite catch-22:
> Lotes Admin: "One of the lotes instances is down due to a bad
> filesystem. Users can't send or receive Memos."
> Solaris Admin: "Yes, I'm fixing this. In the meantime, why don't you
> switch the users to a working instance?"
> Lotes Admin: "For this to happen, I'd have to send them a Memo with a
> button in it which they could then click to switch
> servers."
That's *so* sweet! My sigmonster agrees, in ... well, not spades:
--
Tech Support: The guys who follow the 'Parade of New Products'
with a shovel.
-- Jay Mottern, in the Monastery
D J Ford
>The blinkenlichten on the front of the RAID system are not there for
>nothing, you know....
The cheap and nasty RAID array (also built by 'Geoff', whose only contact
details we have consist of a mobile number) is perfectly happy to let you
insert a drive tray, lock it, and display a green light at you while
simultaneously, and quite maliciously, providing the capability to let you
not push it in far enough for the actual data cable to be connected
to the RAID card.
That was not a nice evening when I worked that out. I thought I had a
simultaneous failure on three different drives until I realised they
weren't Shwvgfh, and that this probably meant something else was failing.
>> (Unfortunately, it turns out they had lowered the level
>> of error reporting, so the system console never got notified of the
>> first failure.)
>
>All I can say is that some people deserve all the fscking they get.
Indeed.
Dave
jgut...@brokersys.com
> Florian M. Weps <fw...@greenmail.ch> wrote:
>
>> But now we have a SAN, and everything sucks in more interesting ways -
>> such as our FC4700 throwing a tantrum every other month and disabling
>> its cache for a few seconds every minute or so, or entire controllers
>> BSODing (their "microcode" is embedded NT). Or failovers failing to
> ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^
>> happen on DMP-attached suns.
> Excuse me, but I think I just read something in which you state that the
> "microcode" for your SAN is embedded NT.
> Just Why The FSCK Would Any Sane Person Buy something in which the
> "microcode" is embedded NT?
Well, in the case of my current employer, it's because the guy doing the
selling is a better bullshit artist than programmer. In fact, it works
so well that they want to replace the working parts with Embedded NT.
Woe is me. I don't have the energy to rant.
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate
Steve VanDevender
Patrick R. Wade
>jgut...@brokersys.com writes:
>
>> Embedded NT.
>
>Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
>
On the contrary, i can think of a number places i'd like to embed NT...
--
Keeping UUCP running is starting to seem a lot like keeping a 130-year-old
man who smokes 4 packs a day on life support because he's the last person
on Earth who knows how to do the cha-cha, but he won't tell anyone.
-- Ryan Tucker
Stuart Lamble
> In article <87k7e4l...@localhost.efn.org>, Steve VanDevender wrote:
>>jgut...@brokersys.com writes:
>>
>>> Embedded NT.
>>
>>Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
>
> On the contrary, i can think of a number places i'd like to embed NT...
For those of you who have not had the... joy... of playing around with
NT, let me just say that any fear and loathing you may have at the
moment is nothing, say again, NOTHING compared to the reality.
I'd rather deal with a herd of Benpyr DBs than with FDY Frjre.
I could rant, but I'm too busy curling up into a ball and whimpering.
Kill me. Now. Please.
Stuart "WHAT fscking required operations failed, you fsckwit of an
install program? WHO the FSCK decided that HIDING THE ERRORS from the
FSCKING SYSADMIN was a fscking good idea, anyway?" Lamble.
--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
Andrew Dalgleish
Mike Andrews wrote:
[snippage]
> Just Why The FSCK Would Any Sane Person Buy something in which the
> "microcode" is embedded NT?
Because they had previously had neurosurgery using a microelectrode
positioner which used embedded 98.
Steed
news:slrnb9779t...@garcia.efn.org:
>>> Embedded NT.
>>
>>Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
>>
>
> On the contrary, i can think of a number places i'd like to embed NT...
I would be in favor of an 'embedded' NT, if and only if the locale of the
'embedding' was billg's colon, or somewhere adjacent.
But I digress. The idea of embedding NT... OK. Let's assume that, somehow,
by some creeping-horror of a Lovecraftian ritual, Microsuck managed to get
an NT small enough to fit onto something like a cellphone. Why would I, as
a consumer, spend the money on an NT-embedded cellphone when I can achieve
the exact effect and level of functionality for free; by taking my current
cellphone, bashing the living shit out of it with a large brick, running
the bits through my garbage-disposal, and flushing whatever's left down a
truck-stop toilet?
--
Adam the Tired
"Very little escapes me. Sometimes, it's a burden that can only be relieved
through bitter sarcasm."
Mike Andrews
> > Embedded NT.
> Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
Not in all circumstances. You will recall my opinion on "rolling
out NT".
I have a similar opinion on embedding NT: it is best to embed it
in the center of several cubic yards (or metres or meters) of
concrete.
--
_A Deepness In The Sky_: A group of Poul Anderson Protagonists
struggle underneath the rule of a group of S. M. Stirling
villains, while stranded above a planet of C. J. Cherryh aliens.
Phil Fraering, in rasfw
jgut...@brokersys.com
>> Embedded NT.
> Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
What, then, do you make of "Embedded XP", which is, apparently, the
latest thing. Personally, I'm more likely to boggle over "Embedded
Visual BASIC", but then my background tends more toward the programming.
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog
imal.uoregon.edu> said
>jgut...@brokersys.com writes:
>
>> Embedded NT.
>
>Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
Fortunately, "Embedded NT" can be solved by the usual process of
embedding an axe in it.
--
!Raised Tails! -:Tanuki:-
"OK, this time remember to keep the Goat out of the Pentagram until after
I say 'Shemhamforash!', you stupid little cunt." -Harry Potter.
Rik Steenwinkel
persuaded newsservers all over the world to carry the following:
} Not in all circumstances. You will recall my opinion on "rolling
} out NT".
Using mechanised means so that no single part of it has a thickness
greater than single-digit microns.
--
// Rik Steenwinkel # VMS mercenary # Enschede, Netherlands
// 1024D/CDBAE5C1
Joe Zeff
<7d3-...@carousel.its.monash.edu.au> wrote:
>
>For those of you who have not had the... joy... of playing around with
>NT, let me just say that any fear and loathing you may have at the
>moment is nothing, say again, NOTHING compared to the reality.
When I was orking at $WEPUSHPACKETS[1], I was stuck with that for a
while. There's a good reason my start-up sound was the Gene Wilder
version of "It's alive! It's alive, I tell you, it's alive!"[2]
[1]Yes, I know most of you know where, but I don't think it proper to
name a former orkplace in this August forum.
[2]Not the original, mind you. The Gene Wilder one is much more
manic.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
NT: Give us this day our daily BSOD.
http://www.lasfs.org http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz
Steve VanDevender
> there's the risk you'd misparse your audio input and think they were
> talking about "The Whore in a Rack".
"Give . . . the rack . . . a TURN!"
--
For I know things that you don't know / And I see things you'll never see /
And I've a different way of living, you know / And I've such a different
frame of mind, and so ... / I'm on my way to the funnyfarm
-- Happy Rhodes, "To the Funnyfarm"
Garrett Wollman
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog <Tanuki@canis-^Hmajor.da^Hemon.co.uk> wrote:
>Fortunately, "Embedded NT" can be solved by the usual process of
>embedding an axe in it.
The problem comes when Management has already spent Far Too Much Money
for the thing that the ``Embedded NT'' system is, um, embedded in.
Like Svrel R-810 rasterizers, for example.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | [G]enes make enzymes, and enzymes control the rates of
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | chemical processes. Genes do not make ``novelty-
Opinions not those of| seeking'' or any other complex and overt behavior.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)
--
Garrett A. Wollman | [G]enes make enzymes, and enzymes control the rates of
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | chemical processes. Genes do not make ``novelty-
Opinions not those of| seeking'' or any other complex and overt behavior.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)
Garrett Wollman
>[doubled sig]
Aieeeeee! Self-LART applied. !#@$%^&^$ inews.
Chris Suslowicz
Steed <dr.s...@death.to.spammers.oraclenet.org> wrote:
> I heard the voice of pa...@efn.org (Patrick R. Wade) utter in
> news:slrnb9779t...@garcia.efn.org:
>
> ...I can think of a number places i'd like to embed NT...
>
> I would be in favor of an 'embedded' NT, if and only if the locale of the
^^^^^^
Do not say that word again.
> 'embedding' was billg's colon, or somewhere adjacent.
Chris (IBM-285) Suslowicz.
--
/ "There's all kinds of things that can be done to \
[ improve FTP but the single best would be to shoot ]
\ it and shovel dirt over it." -- Marcus J. Ranum /
Mike Andrews
> In article <DnSuyFA0...@canismajor.demon.co.uk>,
> Tanuki the Raccoon-dog <Tanuki@canis-^Hmajor.da^Hemon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Fortunately, "Embedded NT" can be solved by the usual process of
> >embedding an axe in it.
> The problem comes when Management has already spent Far Too Much Money
> for the thing that the ``Embedded NT'' system is, um, embedded in.
> Like Svrel R-810 rasterizers, for example.
I have fought previous incarnations of Svrel hardware/bogocode --
to a standstill, most times, and to a victory all but once of the
rest. I'll tell you all this:
_The_ _Winter_ _Olympics_ _Will_ _Be_ _Held_ _In_ _The_ _Hottest_
_Part_ _Of_ _Hell_ _before_ _I_ _Buy_ _Anything_ _Ever_ _Again_
_That_ _Has_ _The_ _Svrel_ _Trademark_ _Or_ _Logo_ _On_ _It_
_Anywhere_.
--
"I don't have any solution but I certainly admire the problem."
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
Richard Bos
> In the referenced article, r...@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl (Richard Bos) writes:
>
> >The blinkenlichten on the front of the RAID system are not there for
> >nothing, you know....
>
> The cheap and nasty RAID array (also built by 'Geoff', whose only contact
> details we have consist of a mobile number) is perfectly happy to let you
> insert a drive tray, lock it, and display a green light at you while
> simultaneously, and quite maliciously, providing the capability to let you
> not push it in far enough for the actual data cable to be connected
> to the RAID card.
That is... creative. If he hadn't inflicted it on a fellow BOFH, he'd
have deserved brownie points, but as it is I don't think it was
intentional.
Richard
Dave Aronson
SV> ab...@leftmind.net (Anthony de Boer - USEnet) writes:
>> there's the risk you'd misparse your audio input and think they were
>> talking about "The Whore in a Rack".
SV> "Give . . . the rack . . . a TURN!"
"No, no, Buggles, I said poke her WITH the soft pillows! WITH! WITH, not ON!"
--
David J. Aronson, Software Engineer for hire in Washington DC area.
See http://destined.to/program/ for online resume, references, etc.
Geoff Lane
> What, then, do you make of "Embedded XP", which is, apparently, the
> latest thing.
I would guess that they achieve this in a manner similar to dropping an
elephant from 5000 ft will embed it in the ground.
OTOT, if you squeeze a MS product into a small enough memory footprint there
may not be sufficient space for it to fall over thus giving the impression
it's reliable.
--
/\ Geoff. Lane. /\ Manchester Computing /\ Manchester /\ M13 9PL /\ England /\
Even if you're not, be brave, no one can tell the difference.
Abigail
<URL:news:3E8F8F9F...@spamcop.net>:
++
++ Cue opposite story...
++
++ A friend of mine had a system crash with a hard drive failure, even
++ though they were using a RAID system that allows a drive to fail and
++ to be hotswapped.
++
++ "How?" you say? Simple... It was the _second_ drive to fail. It
++ turns out they had a drive failure months ago and never noticed, as
++ the RAID system went happily on its way, doing what it was supposed
++ to be doing. (Unfortunately, it turns out they had lowered the level
++ of error reporting, so the system console never got notified of the
++ first failure.)
Some time ago I was at a customer, and they were complaining they had
lost data in their Virtual Array [1]. They had a disk failure at one moment.
HP support comes, and replaces the disk that was reported to be faulty.
After which the disk next to it was reported to be faulty. It got replaced,
after which the disk next to that one was reported to be faulty.
In the end, it turned out that all the HP engineer had done was replacing
good disks. It was the disk before the first swapped disk that turned
out to be faulty - and the VA was reporting wrongly.
[1] I could tell you what it is, but then I would have to kill myself.
Abigail
--
perl -wle '$, = " "; sub AUTOLOAD {($AUTOLOAD =~ /::(.*)/) [0];}
print+Just (), another (), Perl (), Hacker ();'
Abigail
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:3e92916d....@news.nl.net>:
++
++ The blinkenlichten on the front of the RAID system are not there for
++ nothing, you know. When you walk into that room, the single orange LED
++ among the green ones is supposed to catch your subconscious eye even if
++ you haven't had your morning caffeine yet. It did for me, once, and in
++ doing so saved my database and probably that week's newspapers.
Yeah, but that single orange LED is hardware. And it being hardware,
it will do whatever it can to make your life a misery. Luckely, LEDs
only have tiny brains, so usually they won't do significant damage.
But see my story in another post of LEDs reporting the wrong disk
that failed.
Abigail
--
# Count the number of lines; code doesn't match \w. Linux specific.
()=<>;$!=$=;($:,$,,$;,$")=$!=~/.(.)..(.)(.)..(.)/;
$;++;$*++;$;++;$*++;$;++;`$:$,$;$" $. >&$*`;
Mike Andrews
> Mike Andrews staggered into the Black Sun and said:
> >_The_ _Winter_ _Olympics_ _Will_ _Be_ _Held_ _In_ _The_ _Hottest_
> >_Part_ _Of_ _Hell_ _before_ _I_ _Buy_ _Anything_ _Ever_ _Again_
> >_That_ _Has_ _The_ _Svrel_ _Trademark_ _Or_ _Logo_ _On_ _It_
> >_Anywhere_.
> One pictures a piece of fine porcelain seating with the Svrel logo
> cast right into the bowl, and Mike looking sadly at the pricetag and
> regretting his earlier oath.
> There ought to be a branch of Cafepress for making stuff like this,
> really.
When I resided in .tx.us, I learned a fine Tex-Mex phrase which
describes more than adequately a toilet bowl with the Svrel logo
on it: "No 'ueno por squatchie!"[1]
[1] "No good for sh*t!"
--
This reminds me of a colleague a few days ago who turned to me
and asked in a bit of a hushed voice: "what's the politically
acceptable name for a clitmouse?"
-- Matt, in the Monastery
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> Stuart "WHAT fscking required operations failed, you fsckwit of an
> install program? WHO the FSCK decided that HIDING THE ERRORS from the
> FSCKING SYSADMIN was a fscking good idea, anyway?" Lamble.
You mean like:
Server busy
This action cannot be completed because the other program is
busy. Click the appropriate button on the task bar to activate
the program and correct the problem.
No mention of which program is generating the error. (The title
is simply "Server busy".) No mention of what "other program" is
busy. (Yes, it actually says "other program".) No mention of
what operation cannot be done because of this "busy" situation.
How does one determine the "appropriate button" to click, or how
to "correct the problem", when you haven't told me which program
or what problem?
--
+---------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth | kenbrody at spamcop.net | "The opinions expressed |
| J. | http://www.hvcomputer.com | herein are not necessarily |
| Brody | http://www.fptech.com | those of fP Technologies." |
+---------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Kenneth Brody
>
> Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> > jgut...@brokersys.com writes:
>
> >> Embedded NT.
>
> > Ack, a more horrifying idea than "embedded journalists".
>
> What, then, do you make of "Embedded XP", which is, apparently, the
> latest thing.
Just remember... XP is nothing more than NT version 5.1 with a fancy
name. (And Win2K is NT5.0.)
Joe Moore
>corrupt filesystem - NONONO! NOT a data disk, just the internal disk
>with the microcode on it, we have to do a checkdisk".
There's an extra "ec" in there, no? ^^
As in the first 2/3 of ECC? (Error Correcting, not that program.)
(and the i is extraneous also...)
--Joe
--
If you can't laugh at your lusers, who can you laugh at?
remove dash and subsequent local part to email me.
D J Ford
>jgut...@brokersys.com wrote:
>> What, then, do you make of "Embedded XP", which is, apparently, the
>> latest thing.
>
>may not be sufficient space for it to fall over thus giving the impression
>it's reliable.
Hmm - like getting very drunk in a busy pub. Everyone stays upright
until they leave, when it's suddenly sleeping in the gutter and
bold, expressionist pavement artwork time.
Dave -
have undergone some pleasant, minor recovery helping the boys downstairs
break fscking big kevlar reinforced concrete beams.
Mike Andrews
> have undergone some pleasant, minor recovery helping the boys downstairs
> break fscking big kevlar reinforced concrete beams.
Tell more, do! And images would be nice, too.
--
1 Bryant (B) = 4577 books; 1 Ha'bryant = 2289 books
1 Sitter (or Room) = 1104 books; 1 Dinky = 161 books
1 Wallshelf = 23 books; 1 Bedside = 17 books
-- Robert Uhl, in asr
Chris Suslowicz
ab...@leftmind.net (Anthony de Boer - USEnet) wrote:
> Mike Andrews staggered into the Black Sun and said:
> >_The_ _Winter_ _Olympics_ _Will_ _Be_ _Held_ _In_ _The_ _Hottest_
> >_Part_ _Of_ _Hell_ _before_ _I_ _Buy_ _Anything_ _Ever_ _Again_
> >_That_ _Has_ _The_ _Svrel_ _Trademark_ _Or_ _Logo_ _On_ _It_
> >_Anywhere_.
>
> One pictures a piece of fine porcelain seating with the Svrel logo
> cast right into the bowl, and Mike looking sadly at the pricetag and
> regretting his earlier oath.
That's the really Hell-ish part of it, of course[1].
> There ought to be a branch of Cafepress for making stuff like this,
> really.
Indeed. Definitely a case of Not Cheap if you wanted it done by the
factory, and I suspect anything else would wear off fairly quickly.
(The photo-on-plate process does not work at all well on a thundermug,
since you have to float the emulsion layer on water, position it, then
extract the water. Difficult with a concave vessel.)
Chris.
[1] Well, who else traditionally sits on a fiery throne?
--
"Help! Help! Come see the violence inherent in the sysadmin!"
- Mike Sphar in Scary Devil Monastery
Graham Reed
> And then there's Windoze. "New hardware detected: Unknown Device. Please
> insert the driver disk."
Aw heck, a cow-orker's W2K lapdog took 4 minutes to come back to life
when I plugged a USB keyboard into it.
That was a KNOWN device and the drivers were present!
--
"Oh no, not again."
-- bowl of petunias
Steph
> Dave -
> have undergone some pleasant, minor recovery helping the boys downstairs
> break fscking big kevlar reinforced concrete beams.
The boys downstairs?
What about the boys downtown?, or dare I say, the boys in Washington?
Steph "I'm sitting down and facing front" anos
--
Steven Hill
>
Well, me after a curry. Obviously.
--
Steven Hill
``Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes''
st...@madcelt.org
> Richard Bos (r...@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl) wrote on MMMDVII September
> MCMXCIII in <URL:news:3e92916d....@news.nl.net>:
> ++
> ++ The blinkenlichten on the front of the RAID system are not there for
> ++ nothing, you know. When you walk into that room, the single orange LED
> ++ among the green ones is supposed to catch your subconscious eye even if
> ++ you haven't had your morning caffeine yet. It did for me, once, and in
> ++ doing so saved my database and probably that week's newspapers.
> Yeah, but that single orange LED is hardware. And it being hardware,
> it will do whatever it can to make your life a misery. Luckely, LEDs
> only have tiny brains, so usually they won't do significant damage.
I see a small flaw in your logic there. Lusers have NO brains, yet they
manage to cause no end of trouble. Besides, everyone knows the $10K drive
will burn ou tto protect the 20c LED.
--
Stevo st...@madcelt.org
"when I'm not on-line"? What does that mean?
- Paul Tomblin
Stuart Lamble
> In article <3E957D31...@spamcop.net>,
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> How does one determine the "appropriate button" to click, or how
>> to "correct the problem", when you haven't told me which program
>> or what problem?
>
> *bsd install cd in the box.
>
> They suck too, but at least they suck in a different way.
s/different/more predictable and easier to understand/
Frankly, I would rather set up a multi-terabyte Benpyr database on a
TRS-80 than deal with Jvaqbjf. Hell, change that TRS-80 to a ZX-80 -- or
even the Babbage machine -- and the comment still applies.
--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
Jim
> Frankly, I would rather set up a multi-terabyte Benpyr database on a
> TRS-80...
Mmmmmmm...TRS-DOS. Fond memories of Meteor Mission II.
Jim
--
j...@magrathea.plus.com AIM/iChat:JCAndrew2 Grey...@mac.com
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons
Darcy Boese
> Aw heck, a cow-orker's W2K lapdog took 4 minutes to come back to life
> when I plugged a USB keyboard into it.
> That was a KNOWN device and the drivers were present!
Then there's my bog-standard USB CF card reader. It got plugged in to
my Doze98 machine by somebody wanting to see if it was recognized, and
the bastard OS blinked happily to itself "I've got a new device!" Never
once asked for a driver disk or anything. And now, nothing you do will
get that machine to play nice with that card, all you get is "I'm a
potplant!"
RTFM would have fixed it in the first place, this piece of crud requires
a bit of software to be installed BEFORE you attach the reader.
Installing it afterwards doesn't help any. But since I Did The Right
Thing on my notebook I can't be buggered to see what went wrong in the
registry for that other machine.
Kenneth Brody
>
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote in news:3E957D31.4D53C613
> @spamcop.net:
>
> (snip)
>
> >
> > How does one determine the "appropriate button" to click, or how
> > to "correct the problem", when you haven't told me which program
> > or what problem?
> >
>
> insert the driver disk."
>
> devices from looking at the BIOS extensions in the device's firmware. So
> if it can't figure out what the thing is, couldn't it at least display
> the info from the firmware so I could try to figure it out myself?
[...]
Since it's unknown to Windows, it really can't display too much about
it. I'm not sure what information it has to display. On the other
hand, even the BIOS displays the type of hardware it finds. (ie: serial
communications device, display adapter, USB controller, etc.) Why not
at least say "unknown display adapter found"?
What really gets me is when you upgrade a system's motherboard, reboot
Windows, and it asks for the Windows CD for drivers -- _before_ it's
loaded the CD driver! (I've hit that enough times to know that I
should make a copy of the Windows CD onto the hard drive before putting
in the new motherboard. Insert the Windows CD? No problem. It's in
the C:\WIN98.CD directory.)
Kenneth Brody
>
> Jay Mottern <motterj.Idontwantv...@cesmail.net> writes:
> > And then there's Windoze. "New hardware detected: Unknown Device. Please
> > insert the driver disk."
>
> Aw heck, a cow-orker's W2K lapdog took 4 minutes to come back to life
> when I plugged a USB keyboard into it.
>
> That was a KNOWN device and the drivers were present!
It probably decided to search the net for updated drivers. UPnP!
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> Then there's my bog-standard USB CF card reader. It got plugged in to
> my Doze98 machine by somebody wanting to see if it was recognized, and
> the bastard OS blinked happily to itself "I've got a new device!" Never
> once asked for a driver disk or anything. And now, nothing you do will
> get that machine to play nice with that card, all you get is "I'm a
> potplant!"
>
> RTFM would have fixed it in the first place, this piece of crud requires
> a bit of software to be installed BEFORE you attach the reader.
> Installing it afterwards doesn't help any.
I have several USB devices that warn you to install the drivers before
attaching the device. Why, I don't know. But it's certainly not a
unique situation. (So, just what driver does it install otherwise?)
Dave Aronson
JB> Probably the same fsckwit who thought it was a good idea to cram all the
JB> settings into one big file. Though it is more efficient, they only need
JB> to corrupt one file to break all the software on the box.
Awwww, I think it's a very nice basket. Suitable for holding eggs AND
going to hell, all in one swell foop.
Dave Aronson
KB> Server busy
KB> This action cannot be completed because the other program is
KB> busy. Click the appropriate button on the task bar to activate
KB> the program and correct the problem.
KB> No mention of which program is generating the error. (The title
KB> is simply "Server busy".) No mention of what "other program" is
KB> busy. (Yes, it actually says "other program".)
Of course. It's that program that it's bad luck to say the name of.
You know, the Scottish Program. Or maybe it's the Irish Program,
O'RacleOOPSDAMNISAIDIT
NO CARRIER
Kenneth Brody
>
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> KB> Server busy
>
> KB> This action cannot be completed because the other program is
> KB> busy. Click the appropriate button on the task bar to activate
> KB> the program and correct the problem.
>
> KB> No mention of which program is generating the error. (The title
> KB> is simply "Server busy".) No mention of what "other program" is
> KB> busy. (Yes, it actually says "other program".)
>
> Of course. It's that program that it's bad luck to say the name of.
> You know, the Scottish Program. Or maybe it's the Irish Program,
> O'RacleOOPSDAMNISAIDIT
Sorry. No program like that anywhere on this LAN. I'll stick with
good ol' filePro, thank you very much. (And it's typically Netscape
that's being interacted with when the message pops up.)
Mike Andrews
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> KB> Server busy
> KB> This action cannot be completed because the other program is
> KB> busy. Click the appropriate button on the task bar to activate
> KB> the program and correct the problem.
> KB> No mention of which program is generating the error. (The title
> KB> is simply "Server busy".) No mention of what "other program" is
> KB> busy. (Yes, it actually says "other program".)
> Of course. It's that program that it's bad luck to say the name of.
> You know, the Scottish Program. Or maybe it's the Irish Program,
> O'RacleOOPSDAMNISAIDIT
> NO CARRIER
It actually runs on one of those fruit-named computers. Something
like MacHeath.
--
Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night,
God said, "Let Newton be," and all was light.
It did not last; the devil howling "Ho!
Let Einstein be!" restored the status quo.
Joe Moore
Graham Reed <gr...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Aw heck, a cow-orker's W2K lapdog took 4 minutes to come back to life
>when I plugged a USB keyboard into it.
>
>That was a KNOWN device and the drivers were present!
It was probably waiting for you to Press Any Key To Continue...
--Joe
--
I Think, Therefore I Am.
How the hell did you get here?
Jeremiah DeWitt Weiner
> Aw heck, a cow-orker's W2K lapdog took 4 minutes to come back to life
> when I plugged a USB keyboard into it.
This is a known bug^W^Wfeature. More than once I have
plugged something USBish into a Winders machine and had it fail to work;
I might as well have plugged in a cow flop as far as Windows is concerned.
I unplug and replug it, check the contacts, check the power, swear loudly.
No workee. Still swearing, I stomp off to check the manual again. In my
absence, Windows rouses itself enough to get around to polling the bus, or
whatever the hell it does, and upon my return I am greeted with a cheerful
message that Windows has detected the device. Cheerful, unless...
My main use of USB lately has been for an external CD-ROM drive.
Now, the drive speaks USB 2.0, but the host only speaks USB 1.1. EVERY
SINGLE GODDAMNED TIME I turn on the drive, Windows tells me "Error! High-
speed device plugged into low-speed host." Firstly, that is NOT A
FSCKING ERROR, that's a warning at most. Secondly, the message box stays
on the screen until you manually dismiss it. If I ever get my hands on
the cretin who programmed XP's USB support, I am going to carve that
error message into his eyeballs with a hotknife.
--
If mail to me bounces, try removing the "+STRING" part of the address.
Michael Hudson
> What can I say, I've led a sheltered[1] life
>
> [1] Charmed perhaps?[2]
> [2] Yes, I know. Now that I've said it, something nasty and horrible
> will happen late Saturday night that will take hours to fix and ruin
> my weekend.
Recently I had hardware break 364 days after I bought it, not the
Murphy-mandated 366. I am not looking forward to the karma
readjustment.
Cheers,
M.
--
I would hereby duly point you at the website for the current pedal
powered submarine world underwater speed record, except I've lost
the URL. -- Callas, cam.misc
Graham Reed
> I have several USB devices that warn you to install the drivers before
> attaching the device. Why, I don't know. But it's certainly not a
> unique situation. (So, just what driver does it install otherwise?)
This is a sign of incompetent USB device manufacturing.
I always look for devices that do NOT require drivers, because the
drivers that come with the OS are usually much, much, much less sucky
that the drivers provided by vendors.
A good way to do this is to look for stuff that works on both Mac and
Windows, even if you're on Windows (and especially if you're on
Linux). Most companies can't be bothered to write Mac drivers, so
it'll only work on a Mac if you don't need an extra driver.
That and never buy from "Dazzle" or "Microtech" or any other SCM
Microsystems company. They've got some of the crappiest hardware
combined with the worst drivers on the planet. (They don't really
make it either; they package application-specific chips with enough
plastic to make a product.)
Why do so many hardware companies insist they are also software
companies, and prove they aren't by writing such bad drivers?
Paul Kelleher
says...
> Chris Suslowicz staggered into the Black Sun and said:
> >(The photo-on-plate process does not work at all well on a thundermug,
> >since you have to float the emulsion layer on water, position it, then
> >extract the water. Difficult with a concave vessel.)
>
> output. You could theoretically build those with a perfectly-flat
> shelf, and then put the relevant logo or image right at ground zero.
>
Ah, yes, the Continental Shelf. Some people don't believe me when I tell
them it's not just a geological term...
Kelloggs
--
| Paul Kelleher, kelloggs@ | .sig not found: (A)bort, (R)etry, |
| pkelleher.freeserve.co.uk | (P)retend this never happened? |
| mudhole.spodnet.uk.com | |
| Amongst other places... | |
Berry Kercheval
> [2] Yes, I know. Now that I've said it, something nasty and horrible
> will happen late Saturday night that will take hours to fix and ruin
> my weekend.
It will happen Friday afternoon, involve 18 hour days all weekend,
require the forfeiture of non-refundable tickets (which will NOT be
reimbursed) and missing a recovery-based event you've been looking
forward to all year, all for a Monday morning presentation that will
turn out to have been postponed for two weeks.
The postponement was done last Wednesday, of course, which you will
find out about Monday morning.
Please don't ask me how I know this. The medication has almost
suppressed the flashbacks by now.
Chris Suslowicz
ab...@leftmind.net (Anthony de Boer - USEnet) wrote:
> Chris Suslowicz staggered into the Black Sun and said:
> >(The photo-on-plate process does not work at all well on a thundermug,
> >since you have to float the emulsion layer on water, position it, then
> >extract the water. Difficult with a concave vessel.)
>
> There are those European units that have the shelf-for-inspection-of-output.
> You could theoretically build those with a perfectly-flat shelf, and
> then put the relevant logo or image right at ground zero.
Hmmm, I was actually thinking more on the lines of "chamber pot". However,
I've got an idea and it _might_ be possible to get the target company to
supply their own petard. Think "magnetised signs" - I've seen vinyl/ferrite
magnets with company logo's, and even a flexible 'can tester' for recycling
drink cans - all you need is to use samarium/cobalt instead of barium ferrite
for the magnets, and tape some steel filings (or shim) under the pan to give
the magnet something to hug. Using Sa/Co or Nd/Co will get you grip on most
"stainless" steel and Duralumin, so public restrooms are also fair game.
Being non-porous means that they can be disinfected, and changed on a
regular basis: this week we're going to piss on Benpyr, anyone?
Chris.
--
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; give him a freshly-charged
Electric Eel and chances are he won't bother you for anything ever again.
-- Tanuki in asr.
Mike Looney
> What really gets me is when you upgrade a system's motherboard, reboot
> Windows, and it asks for the Windows CD for drivers -- _before_ it's
> loaded the CD driver! (I've hit that enough times to know that I
> should make a copy of the Windows CD onto the hard drive before putting
> in the new motherboard. Insert the Windows CD? No problem. It's in
> the C:\WIN98.CD directory.)
*blink*
I have, from Windows 3.x days on, copied the install media to the hard
drive of the machine I was putting it on. Doesn't every one do that?
Window's want's those file just _way_ to often to do it any other way.
--
Silliness is the last refuge of the doomed. P. Opus
GAT d-- s:- a43 UL+++$ P++$ L+++$ E- W+++$ N++ K++ w---(++)$ O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y PGP t++ 5 X R+++$ tv+ b++++ DI+++ D G+ e+ h--- r+++ y+++(**)$
Eric Schwartz
> I have, from Windows 3.x days on, copied the install media to the hard
> drive of the machine I was putting it on. Doesn't every one do that?
> Window's want's those file just _way_ to often to do it any other way.
Ow, Mike, I know it's Friday and all, but in the immortal words of a
friend's 3-year-old when said child was being sprayed with a
water-hose by his mom's new boyfriend, STOP THAT SHIT.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
Mike Looney
>> Window's want's those file just _way_ to often to do it any other way.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^s
>
> Ow, Mike, I know it's Friday and all, but in the immortal words of a
> friend's 3-year-old when said child was being sprayed with a
> water-hose by his mom's new boyfriend, STOP THAT SHIT.
Yeah, that was a bit bad. Sorry about that.
Andrew Dalgleish
Graham Reed wrote:
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> writes:
>> I have several USB devices that warn you to install the drivers before
>> attaching the device. Why, I don't know. But it's certainly not a
>> unique situation. (So, just what driver does it install otherwise?)
>
> This is a sign of incompetent USB device manufacturing.
Or custom hardware which does not match any of the OS's pre-conceived
notations about which drivers to use for new device types. BTDT
Or the OS's drivers have limitations such as throughput. BTDT.
(There are lots of non-HI devices which use the HID driver,
but it is rather slow.)
The app's installer should be able to put the right drivers in
place, but it is easier if you install the driver 1st. BTDT
Ross Ridge
>Since it's unknown to Windows, it really can't display too much about
>it. I'm not sure what information it has to display. On the other
>hand, even the BIOS displays the type of hardware it finds. (ie: serial
>communications device, display adapter, USB controller, etc.) Why not
>at least say "unknown display adapter found"?
Well, ignoring the case of unknown display adapters, where Windows
normally falls back on the standard VGA driver, Windows does in fact
say things like "PCI Multimedia Audio Device" and "PCI Input Controller"
for unindentified devices. Well, at least for my five year old copy of
Windows, maybe things have changed since then.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
Ross Ridge
>Hmmm, I was actually thinking more on the lines of "chamber pot".
Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote:
>Which brings me to my grandfather's story of the day in the summer of
>1945 that a scrap dealer offered him about ten thousand Wehrmacht
>helmets at ten to the guilder, and he thought along those very lines.
>Those chamberpots were the most popular product he ever sold.
Hmm... Your grandfather who sold those chamberpots wouldn't happen to
be the father of your uncle who the owns the store that last year had
the rough equivilent of the contents of ten thousand chamberpots being
emptied into it?
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Berry Kercheval" <be...@kerch.com> wrote in message
news:oistkh...@lyorn.kerch.com...
> Devin Rubia <de...@roadrunner.nf.net> writes:
> > [2] Yes, I know. Now that I've said it, something nasty and horrible
> > will happen late Saturday night that will take hours to fix and ruin
> > my weekend.
>
> It will happen Friday afternoon, involve 18 hour days all weekend,
> require the forfeiture of non-refundable tickets (which will NOT be
> reimbursed) and missing a recovery-based event you've been looking
> forward to all year, all for a Monday morning presentation that will
> turn out to have been postponed for two weeks.
Hey! Sounds almost like Friday AM.
I got a phone call at the house at 8:15 from HellSouth misManaged
inSecurity Systems. "Sir, your T1 is down." Took me a few seconds to sort
out - I'm the contact point for $STEADY_CUSTOMER. I talked to the tech, who
informed me this was a systemic outage. Hung up the phone, and
$STEADY_CUSTOMER called me to tell me "Hey, we can't get to the Internet!"
Up until about 3:45, the answer from HellSouth was "They're fixing
it, but don't know when it will be up." By 4PM, the T1 was up - the
FIREWALL was dead. Sigh.
Now $STEADY_CUSTOMER understands why I told them to lease the
firewall from HellSouth. We now have a $CONSUMER_GRADE_ROUTER in there, to
keep the Internet access up. Sigh.
I was there right at 4 PM, we worked out that the firewall was well
and truely fscked (won't even take the admin password on the serial port
... ), and by 5 PM I had the $CONSUMER_GRADE_ROUTER running (it was theirs
from back when they were on DSL - which stands for Damn Sporadic Link where
their office was.) I waited until 8 PM to call HellSouth back for the RMA
number - which the tech had forgotten to try to get. By 8:30 the message
was "Oh, they're already closed. We'll have to get the RMA to you Monday."
Good news is - that was billable time. Bad news is -
$STEADY_CUSTOMER isn't happy. Oh, he's not pissed at ME ... although, if I
had known that the firewall was fuxored, I'd have had $CONSUMER_GRADE_ROUTER
up earlier. Sigh.
Other good news - I now have a port through for Direct Connect to
pull down more fansubs of anime. Woohoo! Those sucking like it ... while
nothing's happening, they're getting about 200KB/sec ... on a "T1" line!
Bad news - I'm quickly filling up the two 40's in that particular
computer. Sigh.
RwP
Suresh Ramasubramanian
> I've always found them in C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS and if they arn't
> there they are by the time I've finished.
Guys. *Please* stop bringing on all these twitchy bad memories.
--
Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh <@> hserus dot net
EMail Sturmbannfuhrer, Lower Middle Class Sysadmin
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 04:56 PM, mi...@mikea.ath.cx (Mike Andrews) said:
>It actually runs on one of those fruit-named computers. Something
>like MacHeath.
I'm torn: is that MacHeath as in the Scottish system?
All? Did you say all?
All my little addins and their dam
In one swell foop?
Or Brecht?
Oh the shark has pearly teeth dear
And he shows them pearly white
Just a popup has MacHeath dear
and he keeps it out of sight.
When the shark bites with his teeth dear
scarlet billows start to spread
Fancy fonts though has MacHeath dear
Though not one word should be read.
With aoplogies to Brecht and Blitzstein.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
Back in the old days, before FIDO, when men were men and
sheep were scared, there were some real flames
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 06:10 PM, Jeremiah DeWitt Weiner
<jdw+ALLSPAM...@panix.com> said:
>I might as well have plugged in a cow flop as far as Windows is
>concerned.
All right, you! Show us the license for that cow flop *NOW* or we'll
have to confiscate your computer.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 08:14 AM, sur...@hserus.net (Suresh Ramasubramanian) said:
>Guys. *Please* stop bringing on all these twitchy bad memories.
At least nobody mentioned the early ATI display adapters, e.g., VGA
Wonder.
David P. Murphy
> Darcy Boese wrote:
>> Then there's my bog-standard USB CF card reader. It got plugged in to
>> my Doze98 machine by somebody wanting to see if it was recognized, and
>> the bastard OS blinked happily to itself "I've got a new device!" Never
>> once asked for a driver disk or anything. And now, nothing you do will
>> get that machine to play nice with that card, all you get is "I'm a
>> potplant!"
>>
>> RTFM would have fixed it in the first place, this piece of crud requires
>> a bit of software to be installed BEFORE you attach the reader.
>> Installing it afterwards doesn't help any.
> I have several USB devices that warn you to install the drivers before
> attaching the device. Why, I don't know. But it's certainly not a
> unique situation. (So, just what driver does it install otherwise?)
As much as you'd like to LART the device engineers, you do have to
take into account the fact that they had to make it work under Windows.
The amount of sacrifice (of common sense and Doing This Right) is,
I assume, nothing short of "bloody painful".
ok
dpm
--
David P. Murphy http://www.myths.com/~dpm/
systems programmer ftp://ftp.myths.com
mailto:d...@myths.com (personal)
COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO mailto:Murphy...@emc.com (work)
David P. Murphy
> at least say "unknown display adapter found"?
> (I've hit that enough times to know that I should make a copy
> of the Windows CD onto the hard drive before putting in the
> new motherboard. Insert the Windows CD? No problem. It's in
> the C:\WIN98.CD directory.)
Even I've learned that lesson. And it's D:, not C:, for those
times that I am forced to format C: and reinstall.
David P. Murphy
> Mike Looney <mlo...@e41k.org> writes:
>> I have, from Windows 3.x days on, copied the install media to the hard
>> drive of the machine I was putting it on. Doesn't every one do that?
>> Window's want's those file just _way_ to often to do it any other way.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^s
> Ow, Mike, I know it's Friday and all, but in the immortal words of a
> friend's 3-year-old when said child was being sprayed with a
> water-hose by his mom's new boyfriend, STOP THAT SHIT.
You missed s/to often/too often/.
The "P." is for "Pedantic".
Alan J Rosenthal
>Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> (I've hit that enough times to know that I should make a copy
>
>Even I've learned that lesson. And it's D:, not C:, for those
>times that I am forced to format C: and reinstall.
Yeah, but what about the times when you're forced to format D: and reinstall?
"Partitioning is hard!" -- MS-Windows Barbie
David P. Murphy
Reinstall? Good heavens no.
D: is just a data disk. That's why it's called "D", for "DATA".
C: is the Windows OS disk, so it's called "C", for "CRAP".
some-other-letter-towards-the-end-of-the-alphabet: is for the CD.
Kevin
That's what all those old 1-4 GB hard drives are useful for... E:
Kevin
Alan J Rosenthal
>head hurt.
Yeah, but what about the times when you're forced to format your head and
reinstall?
Kenneth Brody
>
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >Since it's unknown to Windows, it really can't display too much about
> >it. I'm not sure what information it has to display. On the other
> >hand, even the BIOS displays the type of hardware it finds. (ie: serial
> >communications device, display adapter, USB controller, etc.) Why not
> >at least say "unknown display adapter found"?
>
> Well, ignoring the case of unknown display adapters, where Windows
> normally falls back on the standard VGA driver, Windows does in fact
> say things like "PCI Multimedia Audio Device" and "PCI Input Controller"
> for unindentified devices. Well, at least for my five year old copy of
> Windows, maybe things have changed since then.
Well, now that you mention it, it typically is a 3-step process. First,
"unknown device" appears, then "$SOMETHING device", and then it asks for
the driver disk.
However, I have seen a few cases where it never goes beyond "unknown
device", and if/when you cancel the request for a driver disk, the new
device shows up in the control panel under the "unknown device" category
wth a big yellow question mark.
--
+---------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth | kenbrody at spamcop.net | "The opinions expressed |
| J. | http://www.hvcomputer.com | herein are not necessarily |
| Brody | http://www.fptech.com | those of fP Technologies." |
+---------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> D: is just a data disk. That's why it's called "D", for "DATA".
> C: is the Windows OS disk, so it's called "C", for "CRAP".
>
> some-other-letter-towards-the-end-of-the-alphabet: is for the CD.
Every system here, the CD is "R:".
Long ago, we'd run in to situations like this:
Primary HD has two partitions -- C: and D:
CD is E:
You add a secondary hard drive, and all of a sudden:
C: remains C:
New secondary becomes D:
Old D: becomes E:
CD (formerly E:) becomes F:
Loads of fun (FSVO) for anything that stored the drive letter for
anything other than C:.
We decided long ago to stop hitting that trap.
Of course, finding the place on XP that allows you to change the
drive letter of the CD was an adventure in itself.
D J Ford
>
>At least nobody mentioned the early ATI display adapters, e.g., VGA
>Wonder.
Argh! You bastard! You might as well have asked me if I have got
a 27b/6 form - I'd have had much the same reaction. I had a world of
pain trying to get those sods working a few years ago. Ended up
having to install Matrox cards instead just to get the damn things to
stop using the ATI drivers. Bastard drivers they were.
Thanks for the memories, I don't think.
Dave
D J Ford
>"David P. Murphy" wrote:
>[...]
>> D: is just a data disk. That's why it's called "D", for "DATA".
>> C: is the Windows OS disk, so it's called "C", for "CRAP".
>>
>> some-other-letter-towards-the-end-of-the-alphabet: is for the CD.
>
>Every system here, the CD is "R:".
>You add a secondary hard drive, and all of a sudden:
>
>anything other than C:.
XP is even better - you install that on a machine with an empty IDE
zip drive in it, and - surprise surprise - your system drive is D:, #
and the zip disk is C:
Boy, that *really* confuses a lot of things. Including me for a
while.
Dave
Rik Steenwinkel
persuaded newsservers all over the world to carry the following:
} You add a secondary hard drive, and all of a sudden:
}
} C: remains C:
} New secondary becomes D:
At this point it is already glaringly obvious that you're doing
something wrong. Apart from using Windoze in the first place, that is.
--
// Rik Steenwinkel # VMS mercenary # Enschede, Netherlands
// 1024D/CDBAE5C1
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 11:08 AM, Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> said:
>You add a secondary hard drive, and all of a sudden:
The Devil is in the details. More would be UI.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 04:51 AM, d...@myths.com (David P. Murphy) said:
>C: is the Windows OS disk,
Not at Chez Metz, it isn't. I don't do no stinking windoze.
Dave Aronson
S> All right, you! Show us the license for that cow flop *NOW* or we'll
S> have to confiscate your computer.
Do yeu have a lee-sawnce for zat cowfleup?
--
David J. Aronson, Software Engineer for hire in Washington DC area.
See http://destined.to/program/ for online resume, references, etc.
Dave Aronson
DB> All this un-ROT13ed useful information about Windows
Eh? Surely oxymoronic. Other, of course, than "avoid it like the
plague"....
Jeff Ramsey
> In <b7deo1$5qb$3...@allhats.xcski.com>, on 04/14/2003
> at 04:51 AM, d...@myths.com (David P. Murphy) said:
>
>>C: is the Windows OS disk,
>
> Not at Chez Metz, it isn't. I don't do no stinking windoze.
My cousin bought a 486 laptop with DeadRat on it, and it actually had
symbolic links setup to link /drivec to /dev/hda# and /drived /dev/cdrom.
Jeff
Greg Andrews
>
>However, I have seen a few cases where it never goes beyond "unknown
>device", and if/when you cancel the request for a driver disk, the new
>device shows up in the control panel under the "unknown device" category
>wth a big yellow question mark.
>
Hm.. A little bit of fun on a boring rainy afternoon: Replace that
question mark icon with one bearing the Monastery coat of arms.
-Greg
--
::::::::::::::: Greg Andrews :::::: ge...@panix.com :::::::::::::::
MODERN PROBLEMS Hi Diddle Diddle, The Cat and the Fiddle,
by Drieux The Cow Blew Up on the Launching Pad
David P. Murphy
> "David P. Murphy" wrote:
>> some-other-letter-towards-the-end-of-the-alphabet: is for the CD.
> Every system here, the CD is "R:".
Coincidentally, I always use "R" too, but I've forgotten why *that*
letter instead of "Z" or "X" . . . by now, it's simply a tradition.
Garrett Wollman
David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>Coincidentally, I always use "R" too, but I've forgotten why *that*
>letter instead of "Z" or "X" . . . by now, it's simply a tradition.
Hmmm. I always use "/dev/acd0" myself.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | [G]enes make enzymes, and enzymes control the rates of
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | chemical processes. Genes do not make ``novelty-
Opinions not those of| seeking'' or any other complex and overt behavior.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)
Jasper Janssen
<ramsejc$SPAMTRAP$@tubafor.com> wrote:
>My cousin bought a 486 laptop with DeadRat on it, and it actually had
>symbolic links setup to link /drivec to /dev/hda# and /drived /dev/cdrom.
Ah, so just like NT.
Jasper
Kenneth Brody
>
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:08:21 UTC, Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net>
> persuaded newsservers all over the world to carry the following:
>
> } You add a secondary hard drive, and all of a sudden:
> }
> } C: remains C:
> } New secondary becomes D:
>
> At this point it is already glaringly obvious that you're doing
> something wrong. Apart from using Windoze in the first place, that is.
Even plain-old MS-DOS/PC-DOS 2.0 would do that.
However...
ol qrsvavat bayl frpbaqnel cnegvgvbaf ba aba-cevznel qevirf, gur UQ qevir
yrggref jbhyqa'g fuvsg. (Gung vf, bapr sqvfx jbhyq npghnyyl nyybj lbh gb
qrsvar n frpbaqnel cnegvgvba jvgubhg svefg qrsvavat n cevznel, be qryrgvat
n cevznel jvgubhg svefg qryrgvat gur frpbaqnel. Znahnyyl rqvgvat gur
cnegvgvba gnoyr pnzr va unaql.)
That still doesn't help the shifting CD letter, unless
lbh sbepr gur PQ yrggre jvgu gur nccebcevngr puvpxra.
Alan J Rosenthal
Perhaps you call the CD-ROM 'R' because 'C' and 'D' are taken?
Ross Ridge
>Guys. *Please* stop bringing on all these twitchy bad memories.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>At least nobody mentioned the early ATI display adapters, e.g., VGA
>Wonder.
Eh? The ATI VGA Wonder rocked. I can't imagine what problem you had
with it.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
Andrew Dalgleish
David P. Murphy wrote:
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> "David P. Murphy" wrote:
>
>>> some-other-letter-towards-the-end-of-the-alphabet: is for the CD.
>
>> Every system here, the CD is "R:".
>
> Coincidentally, I always use "R" too, but I've forgotten why *that*
> letter instead of "Z" or "X" . . . by now, it's simply a tradition.
Because using Z would notwork in new, interesting ways.
Richard Bos
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > "David P. Murphy" wrote:
>
> >> some-other-letter-towards-the-end-of-the-alphabet: is for the CD.
>
> > Every system here, the CD is "R:".
>
> Coincidentally, I always use "R" too, but I've forgotten why *that*
> letter instead of "Z" or "X" . . . by now, it's simply a tradition.
I chose Q, because... well, simply because, really. C-F are hard disks,
from Z downwards is the network. Q seemed to fit nicely in between, and
not likely to be chosen for a specific network mapping.
Richard
Geoff Lane
> I've always found them in C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS and if they arn't
> there they are by the time I've finished.
Worryingly that's UI for me at the moment - building a dual boot Solaris/XP
system on a new Dull box[0]. Though one could ask, if they are supposed to
be already there, why can't Windows at least check first[1]?
[0] Yes, it is necessary to install a real graphics card before Solaris will
do the graphics thing. The on-board "graphics" h/w is a graphics card in
the same sense that a WinModem is a modem.
[1] Retorical question of course.
--
/\ Geoff. Lane. /\ Manchester Computing /\ Manchester /\ M13 9PL /\ England /\
I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
Ignatios Souvatzis
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> related stuff. Useful (to our job) information is forbidden. It
> doesn't matter if you ROT-13 it, cast it as a sonnet, or attach it as a
> mime-encoded mpeg, just don't do it.
[...]
Sorry. I wasn't aware of the forbidden-even-if-ROTted part of the rule.
I shall download the latest WinXP update via an RFC-1149-compliant method
as punishment.
Peter Corlett
> fl...@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) writes:
>> d...@myths.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
>>> Coincidentally, I always use "R" too, but I've forgotten why *that*
>> Perhaps you call the CD-ROM 'R' because 'C' and 'D' are taken?
> Rock Ridge?
R for ROM, I'd have assumed.
My CD-ROM is called /dev/scd0 (and scd1) on the Real Computer, or perhaps
CD0: when I'm using one of the slightly more fun to use games machines.
Joe Moore
Jeff Ramsey <ramsejc$SPAMTRAP$@tubafor.com> wrote:
>
>My cousin bought a 486 laptop with DeadRat on it, and it actually had
>symbolic links setup to link /drivec to /dev/hda# and /drived /dev/cdrom.
I'm kinda surprised DeadRat doesn't come with /C: built into the default
install. What with the default aliases for "dir", "del", "rm", etc...
--Joe
--
I Think, Therefore I Am.
How the hell did you get here?
remove dash and subsequent local part to email me.