Re: Is there anyone still alive out there?

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Kerr-Mudd,John

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Oct 19, 2020, 5:42:33 AM10/19/20
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:32:16 GMT, Gallian <gal...@linuxmail.org> wrote:

> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> writes:
>
>> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>> does anyone still read here?
>>
>> *sound of waving chicken around...*
>
> Alive is relative, these days...
>
> Mart
>
Are Zombies welcome?


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

Ina Faye-Lund

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Oct 19, 2020, 7:13:59 AM10/19/20
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Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> writes:

> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> does anyone still read here?
>
> *sound of waving chicken around...*

Mine is bigger than yours!

*pulls out a bigger chicken*

--
Happiness is a scratch for every itch.

David Cameron Staples

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Oct 19, 2020, 7:43:20 AM10/19/20
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:44:52 +0200, Juergen Nieveler wrote:

> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> does anyone still read here?
>
> *sound of waving chicken around...*

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

Paul Tomblin

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Oct 19, 2020, 8:39:34 AM10/19/20
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In a previous article, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> said:
>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>does anyone still read here?

Are you on the other place?


--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"I spend 2/3's of every conference call trying to keep him from opening
his mouth and letting stupid pour out of it." - Joe Hetrick

Alan J. Wylie

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Oct 19, 2020, 2:40:26 PM10/19/20
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Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> writes:

> *sound of waving chicken around...*

Damn your eyes, sir. Now I have *that song* going round in my head.

--
Alan J. Wylie https://www.wylie.me.uk/

Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
Security is inversely proportional to convenience

Kerr-Mudd,John

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Oct 19, 2020, 3:51:54 PM10/19/20
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 18:40:22 GMT, "Alan J. Wylie" <al...@wylie.me.uk> wrote:

> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> writes:
>
>> *sound of waving chicken around...*
>
> Damn your eyes, sir. Now I have *that song* going round in my head.
>

Oops, might be better outside your head, I said oops outside your head.

(I try not to code too many nops these days)

Grant Taylor

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Oct 19, 2020, 3:53:51 PM10/19/20
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On 10/19/20 2:44 AM, Juergen Nieveler wrote:
> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> does anyone still read here?

Monitor: Yes.

Post: Occasionally.

> *sound of waving chicken around...*

Don't threaten me with a R.I.T.A. I don't care how reliable it is.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Garrett Wollman

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Oct 19, 2020, 5:02:52 PM10/19/20
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In article <XnsAC5B64556F48...@nieveler.org>,
Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>does anyone still read here?

I am still alive. Unfortunately I am also becoming unusable due to US
elections, but hopefully that will pass in a couple of weeks.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

Niklas Karlsson

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Oct 19, 2020, 6:09:10 PM10/19/20
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On 2020-10-19, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> does anyone still read here?
>
> *sound of waving chicken around...*

*hand*

Niklas
--
The Internet is totally out of control, impossible to map accurately, and
being used far beyond its original intentions. So far, so good.
-- Dr. Dobb's Journal May 1993

Niklas Karlsson

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Oct 19, 2020, 6:11:56 PM10/19/20
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On 2020-10-19, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
> In a previous article, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> said:
>>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>>does anyone still read here?
>
> Are you on the other place?

I was there for a while, years ago, thanks to a helpful Monk. That
newsserver went up in smoke, though - I suppose there were other demands
on his time, don't really blame him.

Niklas
--
I find it ironic that women are happy that their men shell out big bucks
for Viagra, but yet when rigor mortis sets in they want no part of it.
-- Daniel E. Macks, in rec.humor.oracle.d

Chris Adams

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Oct 19, 2020, 7:00:40 PM10/19/20
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Once upon a time, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> said:
>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>does anyone still read here?

Internet meltdown - USENET forever!
--
Chris Adams <cma...@cmadams.net>

Stephen Harris

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Oct 19, 2020, 7:04:49 PM10/19/20
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Chris Adams <cma...@cmadams.net> wrote:
> Once upon a time, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> said:
> >With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> >does anyone still read here?

> Internet meltdown - USENET forever!

I think I've still got a modem somewhere, and I'm sure I can resurrect the
brain cells that archived my UUCP knowledge.

--

rgds
Stephen

Grant Taylor

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Oct 20, 2020, 1:44:27 AM10/20/20
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On 10/19/20 5:04 PM, Stephen Harris wrote:
> I think I've still got a modem somewhere, and I'm sure I can resurrect
> the brain cells that archived my UUCP knowledge.

UUCP is one thing. <whatever> over modem is something entirely different.

Much of Usenet rides over the Internet today. Sure, UUCP could carry
Usenet, particularly text groups. But how many people could transition
to modem connections? What's more, how many people could establish a
UUCP network? That's going to take some work to boot strap. Plus you
won't have good communications with others to do so.

You can also carry TCP/IP over modem. But that going to take even more
effort to boot strap. It's also going to take more resources (phone
lines / modems / etc.) to establish multi-hop communications. IMHO,
UUCP would be easier than TCP/IP over a modem.

c...@nospam.com

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Oct 20, 2020, 4:41:27 AM10/20/20
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Niklas Karlsson <ank...@yahoo.se> wrote:
> On 2020-10-19, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>> does anyone still read here?
>>
>> *sound of waving chicken around...*
>
> *hand*
> Niklas

Still alive and kicking after 15 years of recovery.

--
http://www.netunix.com/

Claudio Calvelli

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Oct 20, 2020, 8:32:27 AM10/20/20
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On 2020-10-19, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> does anyone still read here?
>
> *sound of waving chicken around...*

I used to post here when the world was young and antisocial networks did
not ruin it for the sensible people (that would have been circa 1999).

I actually recovered for a few years, getting to the point of sending
anything which could carry IP packets to recycling. Didn't last that
long but it was good.

I occasionally read here, when there's something to read.

Just testing if the rubber chicken is big enough, not really posting
here, you know.

C.

The Horny Goat

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Oct 21, 2020, 11:37:16 AM10/21/20
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 23:44:34 -0600, Grant Taylor
<gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

>You can also carry TCP/IP over modem. But that going to take even more
>effort to boot strap. It's also going to take more resources (phone
>lines / modems / etc.) to establish multi-hop communications. IMHO,
>UUCP would be easier than TCP/IP over a modem.

I actually set that up back in the day. Probably not something I'd
want to re-learn and implement now.

Of course that was back in the day when 32k was a fast modem heh heh

Ina Faye-Lund

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Oct 21, 2020, 12:00:23 PM10/21/20
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Thank you so very much for making me feel old.

When I started out, the common was 14400, but we still had customers
using 9600.

Zebee Johnstone

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Oct 21, 2020, 2:55:58 PM10/21/20
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In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Wed, 21 Oct 2020 18:00:18 +0200
And suddenly out of the mists of the past comes the memory of the
modem you used by putting your telephone handset onto two rubber cups.


Zebee

Niklas Karlsson

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Oct 21, 2020, 3:00:20 PM10/21/20
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Ah yes, the acoustic coupler. I'm a bit too young to have seen one in
the flesh (well, it's possible I did at a museum somewhere, but have
forgotten).

The first modem I used was 2400 bps, but I was a little kid then. By the
time I actually got paid to do IT, cable modems and DSL were typical for
home users, at about 500 Kb.

Niklas
--
Reportedly, a thumbtack glued point-up to the 'job cancel' button must have
had some effect, for there were red spots on and about the printer
the next morning.
-- Brian Kantor on print queue lusers

Paul Tomblin

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Oct 21, 2020, 3:43:01 PM10/21/20
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My first news setup was at the company I worked for (GeoVision) and it soley
exchanged Usenet via UUCP with Cognos over a 2400bps modem. They dropped all
of alt when it started taking more than 24 hours to transfer a day's worth of
news, but I got them to re-add all of alt except alt.binaries and everybody
was happy.

We also exchanged a much lower volume of email with UUnet over a Telebit Trailblazer,
also over UUCP. We had the fast modem because we exchanged big files with our
Denver and Syndey Australia offices.

True Story: I once sent a gigantic file (by the standards of the day) with our
Sydney office over the Trailblazer, and when it was done I picked up the line
to talk to the developer on the other end, and the line was so noisy that we
couldn't hear each other. Those Trailblazers were amazing.
"SPARC" is "CRAPS" backwards --Rob Pike

Stephen Harris

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Oct 21, 2020, 5:46:11 PM10/21/20
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Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
> True Story: I once sent a gigantic file (by the standards of the day) with our
> Sydney office over the Trailblazer, and when it was done I picked up the line
> to talk to the developer on the other end, and the line was so noisy that we
> couldn't hear each other. Those Trailblazers were amazing.

When I was setting up computer connections over Inmarsat A we tried
using Telebit modems in UUCP spoofing mode. They worked... but wasn't
very performant because it only supported the g protocol with a small
window.

After tests with standard modems (2400, 9600, 14400) and various UUCP configs
we settled on 2400 baud with Taylor UUCP i protocol. The time it took a
9600 baud model to complete negotiations meant the 2400 baud could connect,
login, send/receive email and logout again. Since calls were $6/minute
that was a big saving :-)

--

rgds BOFHnet search: https://bofh.spuddy.org/
Stephen (Contact me if you want access)

Jim

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Oct 21, 2020, 11:26:10 PM10/21/20
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:44:52 +0200, Juergen Nieveler
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:

>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>does anyone still read here?
>
>*sound of waving chicken around...*

I check occasionally for anything new. Hasn't been much of late.

Jonathan McDowell

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Oct 22, 2020, 4:31:05 AM10/22/20
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Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

> You can also carry TCP/IP over modem. But that going to take even more
> effort to boot strap. It's also going to take more resources (phone
> lines / modems / etc.) to establish multi-hop communications. IMHO,
> UUCP would be easier than TCP/IP over a modem.

I used to do UUCP over TCP/IP over modem. Do I get a prize? Therapy?

J.

--
Web [ "evilwm - we sold our souls to the window manager" -- ]
site: https:// [ http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/ ] Made by
www.earth.li/~noodles/ [ ] HuggieTag 0.0.24

Grant Taylor

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Oct 22, 2020, 12:47:33 PM10/22/20
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On 10/22/20 2:31 AM, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
> I used to do UUCP over TCP/IP over modem. Do I get a prize? Therapy?

Bragging rights and therapy probably are the most likely candidate.

Jay E. Morris

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Oct 22, 2020, 5:22:30 PM10/22/20
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On 10/22/2020 02:19 AM, Michel wrote:
> My first modem (that I actually owned and used) was 28k8.
>
> First modem I played with a bit was 2400, when I was 12 or so, but
> didn't really use it because dialup cost was hideous and I had no
> clue where to go with it anyway.
>
> I do remember taping software off the radio for the Acorn Electron.
>
> Or typing in stuff by hand from a book, usually with a friend with
> one reading and one typing. One day after a long session, we ran it
> and discovered that whenever I had said "slash" my friend had typed
> a "\". I think it's funny that I ended up in unixland and he went
> on to do windowsy things.
>

300 with a Tandy Model 100.

The Horny Goat

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Oct 23, 2020, 4:44:00 AM10/23/20
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 18:00:18 +0200, Ina Faye-Lund
Yup - my first modem was a 1200 and went through several before going
broadband. My current home pipe is 300 mbps but then we're comparing
1985 vs 2020.

Never had a 9600 - went from 1200 => 2400 => 14.4 => 56 => broadband

The first two were on an Apple II, the third was what I had when I
joined the MSDOS world and Window 3.11.......

There are you feeling old enough?

My first personal machine was an Apple II which was my graduation
present to myself in 1979. I learned a lot on the old Amdahl
(basically a cloned IBM 370 series) and learned to program on punched
cards and DecWriters once our school adopted "timeshare".

I only got rid of my last student punch cards about 2 years ago -
found the box and thought "hmmm I thought I got rid of these years
ago!" My first experience with a terminal was as a student to the U of
Alberta's (Edmonton) lab in 1972 as a high school junior....it looked
interesting and it didn't occur to me till much later that one could
actually make a living doing this.

I well remembering convering a US medical records database for
Canadian use and being told in no uncertain terms that it was illegal
in Canada to collect racial information in a medical records database
and that no it was NOT good enough to remove it from the data entry
screen it HAD to be gone from the patient database record altogether.

Now in 2020 the truly woke are insisting that "POC" (persons of color)
CAN'T get proper medical care unless their racial identity is
flagged....sigh - good thing I turned 65 last month.

The Horny Goat

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Oct 23, 2020, 4:48:34 AM10/23/20
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 18:55:56 -0000 (UTC), Zebee Johnstone
<zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> When I started out, the common was 14400, but we still had customers
>> using 9600.
>
>And suddenly out of the mists of the past comes the memory of the
>modem you used by putting your telephone handset onto two rubber cups.

Did the acoustic coupler models you're referring to ever go north of
300 baud? Never used a coupler in the business world but did at
university - played way too much "Star Trek" on the Decwrite off the
mainframe.....

I remember dating the TA in the computer lab - broke up with her
mostly because I had thought she was divorced rather than separated
(as was actually the case) and knew I was getting way too emotionally
involved too fast....hope she's doing well and that life has been kind
to her! (Nearly 40 years now)

The Horny Goat

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Oct 23, 2020, 4:49:34 AM10/23/20
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On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 13:13:14 -0000 (UTC), Gary Barnes
<g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 18:55:56 -0000 (UTC), Zebee Johnstone
><zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>: And suddenly out of the mists of the past comes the memory of the
>: modem you used by putting your telephone handset onto two rubber cups.
>
>That's my afternoon sorted. Rewatching WarGames it is...

Never saw that one but did the first. How about a game of 'Global
Thermonuclear War?"

Stephen Harris

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Oct 23, 2020, 7:31:11 AM10/23/20
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The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> Did the acoustic coupler models you're referring to ever go north of
> 300 baud? Never used a coupler in the business world but did at

They commonly also did 1200/75 for things like Viewdata. My cousin had
one.

My first modem was a PACE, which didn't use Hayes commands. "DSN" for
"Dial Stored Number", instead, if memory serves. It could do 300/300.
The second was another PACE that did 1200/1200. They were both discards
from the company I worked for :-)

Paul Colquhoun

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Oct 23, 2020, 10:38:30 PM10/23/20
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:44:52 +0200, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
| With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
| does anyone still read here?
|
| *sound of waving chicken around...*


Like a lot of people, I keep an eye on the group out of old habit...


--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

Jay E. Morris

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Oct 23, 2020, 10:47:08 PM10/23/20
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On 10/22/2020 11:15 PM, Gary Barnes wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 16:22:28 -0500, Jay E. Morris
> <mor...@epsilon3.com> wrote:
> :
> : 300 with a Tandy Model 100.
>
> Oh man, I used to really want one of those back in the 80's.
>

In a box in the closet, along with the cassette tape drive and thermal
printer.


> The first computer I owned was from that family, a TRS-80 Color Computer 2.
>
> The Amstrad CPC 464 was my next computer, and the first upon which I wrote a
> program which was published and I was paid (£100!) for by Amstrad Action.
> That made me a computer professional, and it was all downhill from there.
>
> Holy shit! I didn't know that this was out there:
>
> https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=14996
>
> As a 19-year-old I used to dream of upgrading to a 486 connected to a Unix
> mainframe, apparently...
>
> I got my 486 and installed MCC Interim Linux on it a little after that. I
> even visited MCC Interim Linux's maintainer, Owen Le Blanc, in person to ask
> how one created a swapfile.
>
> Gaz
>

Julian Turnbull

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Oct 24, 2020, 12:26:46 PM10/24/20
to
That post has shaken a remarkable number of us out of the woodwork.

A special obeisance to Claudio - if you don't know why he deserves it,
you're too young.

Julian.

Zebee Johnstone

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Oct 24, 2020, 3:48:37 PM10/24/20
to
In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Fri, 23 Oct 2020 07:23:14 -0400
Stephen Harris <bo...@spuddy.org> wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>> Did the acoustic coupler models you're referring to ever go north of
>> 300 baud? Never used a coupler in the business world but did at
>
> They commonly also did 1200/75 for things like Viewdata. My cousin had
> one.
>

yeah I think I did get 1200/75 out of one at one point but what for I
can't recall. I just got a jolt of recognition when seeing 1200/75.

Zebee

Peter Corlett

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Oct 25, 2020, 3:54:14 AM10/25/20
to
Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 22:46:41 +0200, Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
[...]
>> At least it's not Hackers...
> Hey, that's Angelina Jolie's best performance

Ha, I get a twofer perving over Jonny Lee Miller's performance, since he also
did Trainspotting too before vanishing into obscurity. I should get round to
watching T2, what with Irvine Welsh's writing being relentlessly optimistic by
2020 standards, and I could use a pick-me-up.

> and Voodoo People made a great Nokia ringtone.

My ringtone is a recording of a GPO 706, with proper UK briiing-briiing
cadence. It will suffice until I can lay my hands on an actual GPO 706 and
doctor the innards so it works on a VoIP ATA, what with BT not in any hurry to
install a POTS line in this corner of the Netherlands. Even KPN (who put me
rather more in mind of the GPO than BT) was somewhat reluctant.

> I'm showing my age.

For that, you want Sneakers, which is Hackers but in late middle-age.

Peter Corlett

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Oct 25, 2020, 6:40:33 AM10/25/20
to
Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
> On 2020-10-25, Peter Corlett wrote:
>> My ringtone is a recording of a GPO 706, with proper UK briiing-briiing
>> cadence.
> Well, _obviously_. Doesn't half confuse people, I've found.

Also, ye olde Nokia bleeps on an iPhone. Although I'd be mildly more impressed
by somebody getting an old Nokia to play the iPhone's default ringtone.

Hmm, I have an old Nokia and ringtone-composition software somewhere...

> For the _other_ program, the Lincolnshire Poacher, of course.

ISTR that's in my phone's ringtone library, although I currently use the Amiga
1000 WCS-bootstrap chime. If one is going to go obscure, make it *really*
obscure.

>> It will suffice until I can lay my hands on an actual GPO 706 and doctor the
>> innards so it works on a VoIP ATA,
> I think Mr S may have done something along those lines.

It's a relatively obvious thing to do, only marred by thirsty 1970s British
electronics combined with American-designed VoIP tat which assumes that all
phones are crappy plastic bleepy things, and neither support pulse dialling nor
provide enough RICH CHUNKY VOLTS required to get a GPO 706 to pay attention.

I had convinced my last ATA to do the proper UK cadence, but it blew up after a
while, possibly due to the realisation there's a world outside of the NANP.

>> For that, you want Sneakers, which is Hackers but in late middle-age.
> And, of course, The Net.

I got that in a DVD box set with The Net 2.0 for two quid. And now I want my
three quid back.

At least it's not as awful as Joy Sticks, which was 50 cents and again several
euros too expensive. It's a proper pressed disk and presumably licensed, but
looks like a cam rip. BREIN could reduce piracy in the Netherlands by getting
Dutch FilmWorks et al to use proper digital sources instead of an old Betamax
tape. The film's content is as awful as the picture quality, although the first
few minutes has some nice footage of late-70s and early 80s arcade machines.

Alan J. Wylie

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Oct 25, 2020, 7:19:51 AM10/25/20
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Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> writes:

> After a bit someone asked "why don't they follow the river downhill".
>
> "Because they're Americans."

OTOH, Don't do what James Kim did and leave the road to descend a
ravine in search of the nearest town.

Climbing a ridge in search of a mobile phone signal, whilst staying near
to your vehicle, is, however a non-luserish thing to do.

--
Alan J. Wylie https://www.wylie.me.uk/

Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
Security is inversely proportional to convenience

Stephen Harris

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Oct 25, 2020, 8:16:11 AM10/25/20
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Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> It took me a lot of searching to find it, so here it is for anyone who wants
> a proper cadence: https://adminspotting.org/ringt706.wav

Heh, thats identical to the file I use on my phone :-)

--

rgds
Stephen

Stephen Harris

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Oct 25, 2020, 8:16:11 AM10/25/20
to
Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 10:40:31 -0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett
> <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
> :
> : At least it's not as awful as Joy Sticks, which was 50 cents and again several
> : euros too expensive. It's a proper pressed disk and presumably licensed, but
> : looks like a cam rip.

> I just want to interject with The Blair Witch Project.

> The one film where I didn't just want my money back but
> the 105 minutes of my life back.

Back in 2012 I needed a three more dollars for free Amazon shipping and
Sucker Punch BluRay was $3.99. I figured it was worth it for that.

I was wrong; I should have paid the $2 shipping fee.

--

rgds
Stephen

Garrett Wollman

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Oct 25, 2020, 8:16:54 PM10/25/20
to
In article <slrnrpahm...@logan.adminspotting.org>,
Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
>Since it became a standard for SMS notifications to be ... -- ..., I have
>extended that so that my phone alerts me with .... --- -- . or .-- --- .-.
>-.- or -- .. ... -.-. or -... . - .... depending[0].

>Nagios alerts get https://adminspotting.org/upanddown.wav for proper 90s
>Motorola pager nostalgia,

I had a recording of my old Motorola pager for that, but unfortunately
P*g*rD**ty's[1] Android app is too stupid to be able to use it,
because Android categorizes it as "music" rather than "ringtone".
I've found that the default P....D... alert tone is sufficiently
irritating that I don't need the extra oomph of the beeper.

<https://bimajority.org/%7Ewollman/Motorola%20pager%20alert.wav>

It was recorded in my bedroom using my Marantz PMD620's internal
microphone; I didn't do anything clever like extract it from the ROM
of the pager or what have you.

-GAWollman

[1] Which in our group is the canonical example of "minimum viable
product", accent on "minimum". It still can't do the basic scheduling
algorithm that I implemented in our old internal scheduler fifteen
years ago. We'd still be using it if it wasn't a Rails 1 app that
nobody had the time or inclination to rewrite.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

Peter Corlett

unread,
Oct 26, 2020, 2:46:03 PM10/26/20
to
Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
[...]
> Friend of mine once broke his leg or ankle or something while out hiking in
> the mountains by himself. No phone signal and several miles of tricky descent
> back to his car. Instead he went further up the mountain to where there might
> be a phone signal. Crawling on hands and knees. And there was.

That can't have been here in the Netherlands. The closest most of the Dutch get
to a mountain is a landfill site, and you have to get lost very deep in
cowfucker country for the phone signal to drop as low as three bars.

A few kilometres away from here is a "mountain bike track". It sometimes rises
as high as fifty centimetres, and is smoother than a lot of British roads.

Peter Corlett

unread,
Oct 26, 2020, 2:48:12 PM10/26/20
to
Gallian <gal...@to-be-done.invalid> wrote:
> ab...@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) writes:
>> this corner of the Netherlands.
> That corner still being that old industrial/repurposed as a suburb town north
> of Amsterdam?

On the wrong side of the tracks and underneath the motorway, yes.

> Which would put you right around the corner of SWMCurrentlyBO.

You should come and help us with this overstock of booze.

Peter Corlett

unread,
Oct 27, 2020, 8:54:43 AM10/27/20
to
Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 18:46:01 -0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett wrote:
>> Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Friend of mine once broke his leg or ankle or something while out hiking in
>>> the mountains by himself. No phone signal and several miles of tricky
>>> descent back to his car. Instead he went further up the mountain to where
>>> there might be a phone signal. Crawling on hands and knees. And there was.
>> That can't have been here in the Netherlands. The closest most of the Dutch
>> get to a mountain is a landfill site, and you have to get lost very deep in
>> cowfucker country for the phone signal to drop as low as three bars.
> I think it was Wales.

In that case, given the piss-poor British phone infrastructure, I'm surprised
he could get any phone service at all short of actually standing outside of the
Vodafone shop in Cardiff -- where there will be a payphone nearby.

>> A few kilometres away from here is a "mountain bike track". It sometimes
>> rises as high as fifty centimetres, and is smoother than a lot of British
>> roads.
> And hey, there's a couple of mean little hills around here if you're cycling,
> and I'm not even in the southeast.

I miss hills, although perhaps not some of those in London which, while not
particularly steep per se, inevitably involve a double-decker crawling up your
arse.

This corner of the country is sometimes called "Low Holland" by the various
tourist boards, presumably to distinguish it from that more famous Holland with
the high mountain tops[0]. The A7 motorway through here is on a raised viaduct
and its "Laag Holland" road sign is ironically pretty much the tallest point
for miles around.

Said sign also contains pictures of the obligatory windmill, some wading birds
which are not floating upside down in a filthy canal, and for some inexplicable
reason, a lighthouse even though this is right in the centre of the peninsula
and the sea is an hour away.

I am occasionally amused by Google Maps claiming I'll climb 10-20m in a 50km
bike ride. How? Are they counting the thickness of the paint in the road
markings on the otherwise perfectly-flat surface?


[0] Gung'q or Unneyrz, fcrpvsvpnyyl gur Gbc bs gur Zbag Oynap va gur Grlyref
Zhfrhz.

Peter Corlett

unread,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:11:35 AM10/27/20
to
Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
[...]
> Half of it is below sea level even. It is awfully flat around there, other
> than the various bits of infrastructure to keep the water out.

I'm at about -0.5m MSL. The surrounding countryside tends to be nearer -1.5m
MSL, except for a bit that's -4m MSL.

[...]
>> I am occasionally amused by Google Maps claiming I'll climb 10-20m in a 50km
>> bike ride. How? Are they counting the thickness of the paint in the road
>> markings on the otherwise perfectly-flat surface?

> Dykes. The occasional bit of bridge. 20m is well within the margin of error
> on 50 km.

I suspect the actual reason is that they are using elevation data from
satellite scans which measure the tops of large buildings and tree cover rather
than the land. Some climate scientists recently discovered this flaw in a
dataset they were using, and went "bugger, the Netherlands is lower than we
thought". Yeah, well, these aren't called the Low Countries for nothing.

One of the Zaanstad circulars talking about proposed building works and other
infrastructure improvments in the area posed the question "Where do you think
Kogerveld will be in 2040?" (in Dutch, obviously; this isn't Amsterdam.) My
answer of "underwater" is perhaps not the one they were looking for, but more
likely than any of their suggestions.

Kerr-Mudd,John

unread,
Oct 28, 2020, 12:00:05 PM10/28/20
to
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:00:49 GMT, Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org>
wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:11:33 -0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett
> <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
>: Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
>: [...]
>: > Half of it is below sea level even. It is awfully flat around
>: > there, other than the various bits of infrastructure to keep the
>: > water out.
>:
>: I'm at about -0.5m MSL. The surrounding countryside tends to be
>: nearer -1.5m MSL, except for a bit that's -4m
>
> Hie thee hither, to quote the great bard. In this county, our hills
> are designated an Area Of Outstanding Natural Beauty.
>
> https://www.shropshirehillsaonb.co.uk/
>
'snice around there; and several breweries to hand.


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

Mans Nilsson

unread,
Oct 28, 2020, 5:49:51 PM10/28/20
to
Den 2020-10-19 skrev Niklas Karlsson <ank...@yahoo.se>:
> On 2020-10-19, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> In a previous article, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> said:
>>>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>>>does anyone still read here?
>>
>> Are you on the other place?
>
> I was there for a while, years ago, thanks to a helpful Monk. That
> newsserver went up in smoke, though - I suppose there were other demands
> on his time, don't really blame him.

Congratulations(?) on your unrecovery.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE SA0XLR +46 705 989668
I left my WALLET in the BATHROOM!!

Mans Nilsson

unread,
Oct 28, 2020, 6:04:27 PM10/28/20
to
Den 2020-10-25 skrev Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk>:

> My ringtone is a recording of a GPO 706, with proper UK briiing-briiing
> cadence. It will suffice until I can lay my hands on an actual GPO 706 and
> doctor the innards so it works on a VoIP ATA, what with BT not in any hurry to
> install a POTS line in this corner of the Netherlands. Even KPN (who put me
> rather more in mind of the GPO than BT) was somewhat reluctant.

I've got a swedish Model 1937 Field Telephone, recorded in my living room,
as ringtone. Cadence, then, is a matter of taste, since it was set up in
local-battery mode, and all cadence is by inductor cranking. Said phone
now has a VoIP ATA box that does Swedish pulse dial (counting from 0 up)
bodged onto it, and is connected to the local IP PABX. Being something
of a cautious person, I did not resign my actual (pulse compatible) land
line until I'd debugged and built an IP telephony system that is not
tied to my ISP in any way, and makes it possible to call locally inside
the house.

This CAN'T be UI, except for recreational purposes, but I'll refrain
ebz gryyvat lbh gung vg vf dhvgr cenpgvpny gb hfr Nfgrevfx gb frg hc n
ybpny cubar arg naq vg pna or hfrq sbe npghny jbex.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE SA0XLR +46 705 989668
Hello, GORRY-O!! I'm a GENIUS from HARVARD!!

Niklas Karlsson

unread,
Oct 29, 2020, 3:58:04 AM10/29/20
to
On 2020-10-28, Mans Nilsson <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote:
>
> Congratulations(?) on your unrecovery.

Thanks. No reason for a question mark so far.

Niklas
--
Reportedly, a thumbtack glued point-up to the 'job cancel' button must have
had some effect, for there were red spots on and about the printer
the next morning.
-- Brian Kantor on print queue lusers

Wojciech Derechowski

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 10:12:16 AM10/30/20
to
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:39:32 +0000, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> In a previous article, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de>
> said:
>>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>>does anyone still read here?
>
> Are you on the other place?

I was always meaning to ask at the monastery where is this other place
of which you speak?

WD
--
Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

The Horny Goat

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 2:44:54 AM10/31/20
to
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:11:47 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
<wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:39:32 +0000, Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> In a previous article, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de>
>> said:
>>>With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>>>does anyone still read here?
>>
>> Are you on the other place?
>
>I was always meaning to ask at the monastery where is this other place
>of which you speak?
>
>WD

Shall we tell him it's Zvpebfbsg???

Ina Faye-Lund

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 9:50:20 AM10/31/20
to
Gur Ubeal Tbng <ype...@ubzr.pn> jevgrf:
You mean Erqzbaq, also known as R'Lyeh.

--
Unccvarff vf n fpengpu sbe rirel vgpu.

Wojciech Derechowski

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 11:30:35 AM10/31/20
to
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 13:50:17 +0000, Ina Faye-Lund wrote:
> Gur Ubeal Tbng <ype...@ubzr.pn> jevgrf:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:11:47 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
>> <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I was always meaning to ask at the monastery where is this other place
>>>of which you speak?
>>>
>>>WD
>>
>> Shall we tell him it's Zvpebfbsg???
>
> You mean Erqzbaq, also known as R'Lyeh.
>

That would be almost Systemd offense.

Alexander Schreiber

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:09 PM11/1/20
to
Paul Colquhoun <newsp...@andor.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:44:52 +0200, Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>| With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>| does anyone still read here?
>|
>| *sound of waving chicken around...*
>
>
> Like a lot of people, I keep an eye on the group out of old habit...

Yup, same here. Traffic sure ain't what is was a long time ago.

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

Alexander Schreiber

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:09 PM11/1/20
to
Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 11:19:48 +0000, Alan J. Wylie wrote:
>> OTOH, Don't do what James Kim did and leave the road to descend a
>> ravine in search of the nearest town.
>>
>> Climbing a ridge in search of a mobile phone signal, whilst staying near
>> to your vehicle, is, however a non-luserish thing to do.
>
> Friend of mine once broke his leg or ankle or something while out hiking
> in the mountains by himself. No phone signal and several miles of tricky
> descent back to his car. Instead he went further up the mountain to where
> there might be a phone signal. Crawling on hands and knees. And there was.

Thanks for reminding me that one of the nice things of .ch is that while spots
with not cellphone signal do exist, you _do_ have to look for them, even
in the mountains. Hiking around the mountains and signal rarely drops below
two bars of 4G.


Yes, small, rich countries can be nice.

Alexander Schreiber

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:09 PM11/1/20
to
Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 13:50:17 +0000, Ina Faye-Lund wrote:
>> Gur Ubeal Tbng <ype...@ubzr.pn> jevgrf:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:11:47 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
>>> <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I was always meaning to ask at the monastery where is this other place
>>>>of which you speak?
>>>>
>>>>WD
>>>
>>> Shall we tell him it's Zvpebfbsg???
>>
>> You mean Erqzbaq, also known as R'Lyeh.
>>
>
> That would be almost Systemd offense.

We don't speak about this thing here, lest knifes come out and that would
irrate everyone.

HTH,

Alexander Schreiber

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:10 PM11/1/20
to
Ina Faye-Lund <sta...@starcat.rlyeh.net> wrote:
> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> writes:
>
>> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
>> does anyone still read here?
>>
>> *sound of waving chicken around...*
>
> Mine is bigger than yours!
>
> *pulls out a bigger chicken*

That looks suspiciously like a turkey, though ...

SCNR,

Alexander Schreiber

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:10 PM11/1/20
to
Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
> With the rest of the Internet becoming unusable due to US elections...
> does anyone still read here?
>
> *sound of waving chicken around...*

Yes.

Do we need to chase someone off the lawn?

Kind regards,

Stephen Harris

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:35:06 PM11/1/20
to
Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> That looks suspiciously like a turkey, though ...

That's no way to talk about our elected leaders...

Umm, on second thoughts, go right ahead!

--

rgds
Stephen

Wojciech Derechowski

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 8:16:37 AM11/2/20
to
On Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:49:25 +0000, Juergen Nieveler wrote:
> Ina Faye-Lund <sta...@starcat.rlyeh.net> wrote:
>
>> Gur Ubeal Tbng <ype...@ubzr.pn> jevgrf:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:11:47 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
>>> <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I was always meaning to ask at the monastery where is this other place
>>>>of which you speak?
>>>>
>>>>WD
>>>
>>> Shall we tell him it's Zvpebfbsg???
>>
>> You mean Erqzbaq, also known as R'Lyeh.
>
> I thought it's Gra-Fvkgl Jrfg Nqqvfba, Puvpntb?

Yes, it most certainly is.

Wojciech Derechowski

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 8:40:11 AM11/2/20
to
On Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:46:29 +0000, Gallian wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>
>> Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 13:50:17 +0000, Ina Faye-Lund wrote:
>>>> Gur Ubeal Tbng <ype...@ubzr.pn> jevgrf:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:11:47 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
>>>>> <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was always meaning to ask at the monastery where is this other place
>>>>>>of which you speak?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>WD
>>>>>
>>>>> Shall we tell him it's Zvpebfbsg???
>>>>
>>>> You mean Erqzbaq, also known as R'Lyeh.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That would be almost Systemd offense.
>>
>> We don't speak about this thing here, lest knifes come out and that would
>> irrate everyone.
>>
> It's advocacy either way.

No it isn't but you can always killfile or score or whatever.

--

Garrett Wollman

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 10:33:25 PM11/2/20
to
In article <XnsAC6959A45696...@nieveler.org>,
Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:

>I thought it's Gra-Fvkgl Jrfg Nqqvfba, Puvpntb?

Most facilities of that variety these days have vanity addresses --
pretty much all the new ones do, and there's only one older one still
in existence, whose address was just changed because the street it's
on is no longer named after a famous racist -- and with those two
exceptions, they tend to get replaced at public expense as soon as
they're fully depreciated, so they don't tend to feature in classic
films.

Usually, movie-famous addresses mean very little to me -- political
institutions aside -- but that's one of the small subset that I've
actually been to. Maybe the only one, now that I think of it; the
intersection between "famous places that I've been in" and "places
that are well-known by their street address" is not large. (OK, in
this September froup, Guvegl-Gjb Nirahr bs gur Nzrevpnf may be a bit
more well-known than Bar Svefg Fgerrg AR but neither of those are
famous in the way that Fgr.-Pngurevar naq Ngjngre is famous.) I guess
Guvegl Ebpxrsryyre Cynmn is another one. I guess all of these have
the property that you don't really need to mention what city they're
in; the address alone is famous enough.

-GAWollman

Stephen Harris

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 10:35:04 PM11/2/20
to
Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> I still can't decide on who I think made the best use of an ex-police car,
> those two, or the KLF.

You wot?
You wot?
You wot?
You wot?
You wot?

--

rgds
Stephen

Wojciech Derechowski

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 11:42:59 PM11/2/20
to
On Tue, 03 Nov 2020 02:35:22 +0000, Gary Barnes wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 01:59:53 -0000 (UTC), Gary Barnes
><g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
[...]
> I still can't decide on who I think made the best use of an ex-police car,
> those two, or the KLF.

IMHO there cannot be any real competition between the Bluesmobile and Ford
Timelord. Consider the use of other police cars. Besides, Galaxie looks
rather camp compared to Dodge Monaco even without CLM Model 92729DP air
raid siren on the roof.

Niklas Karlsson

unread,
Nov 3, 2020, 2:58:07 AM11/3/20
to
On 2020-11-03, Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
> Usually, movie-famous addresses mean very little to me -- political
> institutions aside -- but that's one of the small subset that I've

I can't think of any place that's famous by its street address other
than 10 Downing Street.

Niklas
--
On the other hand, if you had a problem with a big SCSI RAID system,
could you fix it by crashing a truckload of goats into your data center?
-- Steve VanDevender

Alan J. Wylie

unread,
Nov 3, 2020, 3:01:56 AM11/3/20
to
Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> writes:

> the KLF.

Which prompts me to remind you that Charlie Stross (late of this
monastery) has a new book out.

Alan "Justified and Ancient" Wylie.

--
Alan J. Wylie https://www.wylie.me.uk/

Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
Security is inversely proportional to convenience

David Cameron Staples

unread,
Nov 3, 2020, 3:14:49 AM11/3/20
to
On Tue, 03 Nov 2020 07:58:05 +0000, Niklas Karlsson wrote:

> On 2020-11-03, Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
>> Usually, movie-famous addresses mean very little to me -- political
>> institutions aside -- but that's one of the small subset that I've
>
> I can't think of any place that's famous by its street address other
> than 10 Downing Street.
>
> Niklas

221B Baker st

Peter Corlett

unread,
Nov 3, 2020, 4:31:06 AM11/3/20
to
David Cameron Staples <sta...@unimelb.edu.au.NOSPAM> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2020 07:58:05 +0000, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
[...]
>> I can't think of any place that's famous by its street address other
>> than 10 Downing Street.
> 221B Baker st

An address which is as famous and real as Narnia.

David Cameron Staples

unread,
Nov 3, 2020, 5:57:44 AM11/3/20
to
I didn't realise "real" was a relevant factor here.

Alan J. Wylie

unread,
Nov 3, 2020, 7:41:30 AM11/3/20