Multiple recovery
Ben Caradoc-Davies
Firstly, I've accepted a job in Perth ... as a Software Engineer. No mention of
administration in my job description [0]. In fact, having a job description is
a novelty.
Secondly, certain youthful individuals (of inexplicably clear complexion) have
received the means to destroy their livelihood. Yes, the UID 0 monkey is off my
back.
Thirdly, and most unexpectedly, the wife gave me (slightly early) my combined
birthday and Christmas present. She had no idea whatsover of its significance
to this group [1]. It is my first Leatherman, a Wave (plus leather pouch).
Being somewhat tight, I would never have sprung the cash for one myself. Have
any other monks acquired their first Leatherman from a loved one? I was careful
to give her a coin in exchange. :-)
I'm sure that nothing will bring more terror to the sysadmin of my new place of
employment than a software engineer with a screwdriver (or Leatherman).
Bwahahahahaha! f34r m3
Hmm, I wonder what airport security will think? It does bear an unfortunate
resemblance to a butterfly knife.
[0] Yes, I know, it's bound to happen. But until then, I can just live a
normal life.
[1] Although she did recognise it as a definite geek accessory.
--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <be...@bigfoot.com>
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn90rmn...@ripley.sulaco.net>, on 11/11/2000
at 11:48 PM, be...@bigfoot.com (Ben Caradoc-Davies) said:
>She had no idea whatsover of its significance
>to this group [1]. It is my first Leatherman,
For some reason those are illegal in my daughter's high school. That
strikes me as bizarre, since when I was in HS it was routine to see
students carrying around knives, especially if the were taking
mechanical drafting[1].
[I] I dropped out when I discovered that the instructor expected us to
be able to draw freehand before we would be allowed to use
instruments. Alas[2], that was too soon for him to be a CAD.
[2]I'm assuming that a CAD instructor would not foist a requirement
for freehand drawing off on his students. Does that make me hopelessly
naive?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain acm dot org user shmuel to contact me.
"He was born with a gift of laughter,
and a sense that the world was mad."
Thomas Molina
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>In <slrn90rmn...@ripley.sulaco.net>, on 11/11/2000
> at 11:48 PM, be...@bigfoot.com (Ben Caradoc-Davies) said:
>
>>She had no idea whatsover of its significance
>>to this group [1]. It is my first Leatherman,
>
>For some reason those are illegal in my daughter's high school. That
>strikes me as bizarre, since when I was in HS it was routine to see
>students carrying around knives, especially if the were taking
>mechanical drafting[1].
It's called zero tolerance, and it's even worse than that. I got a
call from my daughter's school over a "blade" she was carrying.
This "blade" was on her nail-clippers (probably also considered
a weapon - who knows), less than 2 cm, and designed to clean
fingernails.
She isn't even allowed to take Midol (tm) to school for cramps.
I have to hand it to the nurse personally, so my daughter can
declare her problem to get relief.
Jan Ingvoldstad
Caradoc-Davies) said:
> Hmm, I wonder what airport security will think? It does bear an
> unfortunate resemblance to a butterfly knife.
Oh, no, not this thread again.
Brief recap:
a) They won't care
b) They'll kill you anyway, just for show
--
ASR: We took both pills.
Patrick R. Wade
Zero-tolerance was just beginning to come into fashion when i was in
high school (late 80's), and it was one of many things that made me glad
i was in Catholic school; the diocese gave the monks rather more discretion
than any public employee had.
--
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!], `Pray,
Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right
answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of
confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.--Charles Babbage
Jake
My father gave me my first Leatherman, not understanding how much it
meant to me at the time barely even knowing what a computer was, I have
carried it around with me ever since. It gives me thrill and great pleasure
every time I walk past the directors, with an evil grin and my Leatherman
securely holstered by my side. To tell you the truth, what did I ever do
without a Leatherman? I guess nothing really matters until that point in
your life... If your as screwed up mentally as I am...
Rob Adams
>On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:16:45 -0500, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
><spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>In <slrn90rmn...@ripley.sulaco.net>, on 11/11/2000
>> at 11:48 PM, be...@bigfoot.com (Ben Caradoc-Davies) said:
>>
>>>She had no idea whatsover of its significance
>>>to this group [1]. It is my first Leatherman,
>>
>>For some reason those are illegal in my daughter's high school. That
>>strikes me as bizarre, since when I was in HS it was routine to see
>>students carrying around knives, especially if the were taking
>>mechanical drafting[1].
>
>It's called zero tolerance, and it's even worse than that. I got a
>call from my daughter's school over a "blade" she was carrying.
>This "blade" was on her nail-clippers (probably also considered
>a weapon - who knows), less than 2 cm, and designed to clean
>fingernails.
I hope you laughed Manically at them and told them to GET A LIFE!!!
>She isn't even allowed to take Midol (tm) to school for cramps.
>I have to hand it to the nurse personally, so my daughter can
>declare her problem to get relief.
Wouldnt that qualify under your Americans with a Disability act.
Besides it can majorly embarrass any male teacher if you talk loud
enough in class..
Rob.
--
Email header munged figure this out..
robadams (at) ozemail {dit} com (dit) au
Warning: Some of my best mistakes are yet to be made.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn90thkp....@wr5z.localdomain>, on 11/12/2000
at 04:35 PM, tmo...@home.com (Thomas Molina) said:
>It's called zero tolerance,
Not in this case. The prohibition is imposed by the county and the
school is, shall we say, less than diligent about enforcing it. But
even an unenforced rule like that strikes me as stupid[1].
>She isn't even allowed to take Midol (tm) to school for cramps.
Fairly common here; any drugs have to be left with the school nurse
along with instructions for dispensing. There was a case recently of a
student suspended for taking a common OTC medication. I wonder what
the school's liability is if they fail to dispense a required drug in
a timely fashion, or fail to comply with the instructions, e.g., "with
food" or "two hours before eating"?
[1] We're running out of Hydrogen.
Eric The Read
> There was a case recently of a student suspended for taking a common
> OTC medication.
Hah! We've got you beat hands down here (.cos.co.us). Some kid was
suspended for bringing cough drops to school! The reasoning: the
administration thought they were drugs. When it was pointed out they
weren't, they stood by their decision, on the grounds, essentially, that
"Well, they could have been-- better safe than sorry."
-=Eric
--
Laetrile is the pits
Paul Raj Khangure
> Firstly, I've accepted a job in Perth ... as a Software Engineer. No mention of
Perth, Scottland?
Or Perth, Western Australia?
Paul Raj Khangure
--
I stayed up all last night playing poker with tarot cards.
I got a full house and four people died. - Stephen Wright
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Earl Grey
> I'm sure that nothing will bring more terror to the sysadmin of my new
> place of employment than a software engineer with a screwdriver (or
> Leatherman).
You are a dusty distro of CrossTalk.
--
http://copyleft.net/cgi-bin/copyleft/t039.pl
http://kapu.net/~bofh/
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <k1mv0to7cqq9t88oj...@4ax.com>, on 11/13/2000
at 09:33 PM, Rob Adams <nob...@ozemail.com.au> said:
>Besides it can majorly embarrass any male teacher if you talk loud
>enough in class..
You're appallingly evil! Keep it up ;-)
The only objections that I see are that it might embarrass her and
that they might trump up charges of disrupting the class.
Felix Deutsch
> "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
> > There was a case recently of a student suspended for taking a common
> > OTC medication.
>
> Hah! We've got you beat hands down here (.cos.co.us). Some kid was
> suspended for bringing cough drops to school! The reasoning: the
> administration thought they were drugs.
Hmm. Most cough {drops|syrups} I happen to know contain codeine, which
gives you quite a buzz when used according to the instructions[0].
> When it was pointed out they
> weren't, they stood by their decision, on the grounds, essentially, that
> "Well, they could have been-- better safe than sorry."
I really don't get it. Were they saying they were afraid of the kid
getting high on cough drops during class or dealing the junk in the
school yard?
[0] those listed under "Don't"
Felix, reformed cough syrup junkie
Satya
>suspended for bringing cough drops to school! The reasoning: the
>weren't, they stood by their decision, on the grounds, essentially, that
>"Well, they could have been-- better safe than sorry."
Did anyone sue?
--
Satya.
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert
>Hmm. Most cough {drops|syrups} I happen to know contain codeine, which
>gives you quite a buzz when used according to the instructions[0].
>
>
>Felix, reformed cough syrup junkie
Here, they're mostly just mentholated sugary things. Some of them have
a very mild local anesthetic and/or antiseptic agents. That's the cough
drops... not so sure about the cough syrup, cept that it contains a fair
bit of alcohol IIRC.
K.
--
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert - sk...@infotrope.net - http://infotrope.net/
Being weird isn't enough.
Garrett Wollman
Felix Deutsch <Felix....@eede.ericsson.se> wrote:
>Hmm. Most cough {drops|syrups} I happen to know contain codeine, which
>gives you quite a buzz when used according to the instructions[0].
Codeine being a controlled substance here, such preparations are not
widely available. (Doctors don't even like to prescribe the stuff if
they don't have to.)
Typical cough drop gets its anaesthetic effect from either a mint oil
or from an extract of cinnamon. A very few contain phenol; Sucrets
are pretty much unique in having a stronger anaesthetic. Cough syrups
tend to contain an expectorant, such as guaifenesin, as well as a
cough-suppressant such as dextromethorpan or eucalyptus oil. Some
authorities dispute the medical value of cough suppressants.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom
Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick
Arvid Grøtting
> Some authorities dispute the medical value of cough suppressants.
If I have a bad cough, the doctor will usually give me something to
make the cough more efficient during the day, and something else to
suppress it during the night. This way, I can even get some sleep.
--
(let (hh mm ss)
(do () () (multiple-value-setq (ss mm hh) (get-decoded-time))
(format t "~C~@R ~@R ~@R "
#\return hh mm ss) (sleep 1)))
Lady Kayla
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
> In <k1mv0to7cqq9t88oj...@4ax.com>, on 11/13/2000
> at 09:33 PM, Rob Adams <nob...@ozemail.com.au> said:
>
> >Besides it can majorly embarrass any male teacher if you talk loud
> >enough in class..
>
> You're appallingly evil! Keep it up ;-)
>
> The only objections that I see are that it might embarrass her and
> that they might trump up charges of disrupting the class.
Pah! Okay, I admit that I never shouted out in class "Can I be
excused? I have period pain." But I never once balked at walking up to
the teacher's desk and quietly telling them "I have period pain. May I
leave the room?" The male teachers got into the habit of pointing to
the door before I got within 5 feet of their desks at certain times,
and as I'd fought damned hard to be allowed to do "boys" subjects[1]
(Applied Technology, Design Technology etc) there were a lot of male
teachers.
Lady Kayla
[1] This was in the late 70's/early 80's - Head teacher: "But, you're
a _girl_! You can't do those subjects!" Me (backed up by my father):
"That's sex discrimination. Can I have that decision in writing
please?"
--
Lady Kayla
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my
suespammers.org address.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <9oo31t0t59109ho4s...@4ax.com>, on 11/15/2000
at 01:20 AM, Lady Kayla <lady...@suespammers.org> said:
>Pah! Okay, I admit that I never shouted out in class "Can I be
>excused? I have period pain." But I never once balked at walking up
>to the teacher's desk and quietly
Ah, but Rob explicitly specified "loudly".
>[1] This was in the late 70's/early 80's - Head teacher: "But,
>you're a _girl_! You can't do those subjects!" Me (backed up by my
>father): "That's sex discrimination. Can I have that decision in
>writing please?"
Too bad that he didn't give it to you in writing. After the school
district lost the suit, I'm sure that they would have taken it out of
his hide. Not, of course, for being an MCP, but only for getting them
into it.
Mike Sphar
once write the following? Read the book:
>Hmm. Most cough {drops|syrups} I happen to know contain codeine, which
>gives you quite a buzz when used according to the instructions[0].
Codeine is a controlled substance in .us, which I freely admit is pretty
silly.
>> When it was pointed out they
>> weren't, they stood by their decision, on the grounds, essentially, that
>> "Well, they could have been-- better safe than sorry."
>
>I really don't get it. Were they saying they were afraid of the kid
>getting high on cough drops during class or dealing the junk in the
>school yard?
This is all part of the "zero tolerance" policy some school districts
enforce. "Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be
able to apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis."
--
Mike Sphar http://www.dogfacedboy.org/
Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties,
nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>or from an extract of cinnamon. A very few contain phenol; Sucrets
>are pretty much unique in having a stronger anaesthetic. Cough syrups
>tend to contain an expectorant, such as guaifenesin, as well as a
>authorities dispute the medical value of cough suppressants.
I've always thought putting an expectorant and a suppressant in the same
medication was an odd idea.
Abigail
++
++
++ Fairly common here; any drugs have to be left with the school nurse
++ along with instructions for dispensing. There was a case recently of a
++ student suspended for taking a common OTC medication. I wonder what
++ the school's liability is if they fail to dispense a required drug in
++ a timely fashion, or fail to comply with the instructions, e.g., "with
++ food" or "two hours before eating"?
Sounds like a typical BOFH solution. You wouldn't allow any luser
on your system to think for themselves either, even if a few have
more than one braincell to rub together, would you?
Abigail
Mike Andrews
: Did Ancient Astronauts named Felix Deutsch <Felix....@eede.ericsson.se>
: once write the following? Read the book:
:>Hmm. Most cough {drops|syrups} I happen to know contain codeine, which
:>gives you quite a buzz when used according to the instructions[0].
: Codeine is a controlled substance in .us, which I freely admit is pretty
: silly.
:>> When it was pointed out they
:>> weren't, they stood by their decision, on the grounds, essentially, that
:>> "Well, they could have been-- better safe than sorry."
:>
:>I really don't get it. Were they saying they were afraid of the kid
:>getting high on cough drops during class or dealing the junk in the
:>school yard?
: This is all part of the "zero tolerance" policy some school districts
: enforce. "Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be
: able to apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis."
That is part of it, but not all. Another part was that TheLandsharks
were prepared to go after anyone who tried to apply conscious thought
on a case-by-case basis, claiming discrimination.
Being in charge is _all_ about exercising discrimination in a good
way, though. Discrimination by itself is not a bad thing.
--
0. Spam is theft.
1. Spammers lie.
2. If a spammers seems to be telling the truth, see Rule # 1.
3. Spammers are stupid.
Garrett Wollman
Mike Sphar <s...@dogfacedboy.org> wrote:
>This is all part of the "zero tolerance" policy some school districts
>enforce. "Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be
>able to apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis."
Unfortunately, our legal system generally doesn't reward people who
think. Even if the school administrators want to do the Right Thing,
their counsel and insurance carrier probably have other ideas.
Eric The Read
> On 13 Nov 2000 10:25:30 -0700, Eric The Read <emsc...@rmi.net> wrote:
> >suspended for bringing cough drops to school! The reasoning: the
> >weren't, they stood by their decision, on the grounds, essentially, that
> >"Well, they could have been-- better safe than sorry."
>
Not that I recall. There were a number of articles in the local paper,
and every TV station for miles around ran a "Look at the Loonies" bit
about the school district. Board members were seen on TV testifying that
it was the kid's fault for bringing in something that looked like a
drug. IIRC, later news reports had the kid offering one to a friend,
which is what brought the fact that he had any to their attention.
Oh, and more Zero Thinking^WTolerance fun: a high-school girl who was the
head of her class was suspended for three days because her mother, who'd
driven the car the day before, had left a steak knife in the locked glove
compartment. The administration expressed regret, and said they'd like
to have given her just a warning, but, well, they had a policy.
I'm beginning to like Bob Lewis quite a bit-- his take on such things is
"Never make policy. Policy is for people who can't think. Instead, make
guidelines, and let your people interpret them." Of course, advice on
running an IT shop is widely different from running a school-- the lusers
are generally less litigious, for one.
-=Eric
--
U: There's a U -- a Unicorn!
Run right up and rub its horn.
Look at all those points you're losing!
UMBER HULKS are so confusing.
-- The Roguelet's ABC
Paul Tomko
Thomas Molina <tmo...@home.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:16:45 -0500, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
><spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>In <slrn90rmn...@ripley.sulaco.net>, on 11/11/2000
>> at 11:48 PM, be...@bigfoot.com (Ben Caradoc-Davies) said:
>>
>>>She had no idea whatsover of its significance
>>>to this group [1]. It is my first Leatherman,
>>
>>For some reason those are illegal in my daughter's high school. That
>>strikes me as bizarre, since when I was in HS it was routine to see
>>students carrying around knives, especially if the were taking
>>mechanical drafting[1].
>
>It's called zero tolerance, and it's even worse than that. I got a
>call from my daughter's school over a "blade" she was carrying.
>This "blade" was on her nail-clippers (probably also considered
>a weapon - who knows), less than 2 cm, and designed to clean
>fingernails.
I got a similar call because my 8 year old took a pocket knife to school.
His story is that he accidentally put the knife in his pocket because
he was going to go camping with his grandparents in a week or two and
then forgot that he had put it in there. This was a flimsy excuse
which I didn't believe for a second. The teacher said she found out about
the knife because he had shown it to a friend and the friend told the
teacher. The teacher told me that she was supposed to report him to the
principal who would likely suspend him for three days. I told her to
go ahead and do that, but she balked and just took the knife away. She
said I could pick it up if I liked, but I told her to trash it, which
she presumably did.
Zero Tolerance is probably a bad idea, but if you clearly disobey the rules
like a total luser, you should accept the consequences like a luser and
maybe that will teach you not to be a luser.
Paul
--
Paul Tomko pa...@tomkoinc.com http://www.tomkoinc.com
10000+ Humorous Quotes http://www.tomkoinc.com/quotes.html
"Behold the warranty ... the bold print giveth and the fine
print taketh away." - fortune file
Paul Tomko
Garrett Wollman <wol...@lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
>In article <c7r41toaj430bkaap...@news-west.speakeasy.net>,
>Mike Sphar <s...@dogfacedboy.org> wrote:
>
>>This is all part of the "zero tolerance" policy some school districts
>>enforce. "Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be
>>able to apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis."
>
>Unfortunately, our legal system generally doesn't reward people who
>think. Even if the school administrators want to do the Right Thing,
>their counsel and insurance carrier probably have other ideas.
What a sad day that a school would have to retain councel and an
insurance carrier. When I was in school, and this was only 20 years back,
nobody ever sued the school over anything. I knew several kids who
broke arms, legs and otherwise hurt themselves doing activities at
school or on school equipment. Generally it was treated as 'accidents
happen' and the parents took care of the problem.
I'm not sure it's even fair to blame the lawyers. I guess they are
partly responsible for encouraging everybody to take every little
thing to court. But if the desire to do this weren't there in people
already, there would be no need for lawyers.
Howard D. Mallison II
<Snip>
>
>Oh, and more Zero Thinking^WTolerance fun: a high-school girl who was the
>head of her class was suspended for three days because her mother, who'd
>driven the car the day before, had left a steak knife in the locked glove
>compartment. The administration expressed regret, and said they'd like
>to have given her just a warning, but, well, they had a policy.
>
And just how did the knife-fearing gestapo get into a locked glovebox
in a locked car to find the knife? Or do they have powers that we
really don't want them to have?
>I'm beginning to like Bob Lewis quite a bit-- his take on such things is
>"Never make policy. Policy is for people who can't think. Instead, make
>guidelines, and let your people interpret them." Of course, advice on
>running an IT shop is widely different from running a school-- the lusers
>are generally less litigious, for one.
>
Guidelines require brains (1), good luck helping them find them.
Dan
(1) Or common sense, which is even rarer still.
(Note: No Sigquotes were harmed in processing this message.)
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn914rk4....@tsathoggua.rlyeh.net>, on 11/15/2000
at 11:07 AM, abi...@foad.org (Abigail) said:
>Sounds like a typical BOFH solution. You wouldn't allow any luser on
>your system to think for themselves either, even if a few have more
>than one braincell to rub together, would you?
I encourage it, to no avail. I even pretend to not have a copy of
System Messages and ask the luser to read me the message description
from his copy. No, I don't want them updating the system by
themselves, but I would like for them to be able to wipe their own
behinds once in a while. I'm a systems programmer, Captain, not a
nanny.
Shalom Septimus
wrote:
>Did Ancient Astronauts named wol...@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) once
>write the following? Read the book:
>>Typical cough drop gets its anaesthetic effect from either a mint oil
>>or from an extract of cinnamon. A very few contain phenol; Sucrets
>>are pretty much unique in having a stronger anaesthetic. Cough syrups
>>tend to contain an expectorant, such as guaifenesin, as well as a
>>cough-suppressant such as dextromethorpan or eucalyptus oil. Some
>>authorities dispute the medical value of cough suppressants.
/cough suppressants/expectorants/ in the last sentence.
Cough suppressants work, nobody I know disputes that. It's the
expectorants that were mostly removed from the market as being in
Category III.
(The FDA did studies on the various drugs that predated the
Durham-Humphrey [1] amendments to the Pure Food & Drug Act of 1938,
and put them in three categories. Category I were allowed to remain on
the market as "generally recognized as safe and effective". Categories
II and III were removed; the former as "not recognized as safe" and
the latter as "not recognized as effective". Pretty much all the
expectorants (aluminum chloride, creosote, terpin hydrate, iodinated
glycerol, etc.) wound up in Cat III; the only reason guaifenesin,
alias glycerol guaiacolate, was not so designated was that if they
took that one away, we wouldn't have any expectorants at all left.
Personally, I find that a nice medium-hot pepper is the best
expectorant; eat one or two of those and there's plenty of liquid in
my lungs, just waiting to be hawked out.)
You can still get a combination product called Creo-Terpin that has
several of the above substances in it, but they are all listed as
"inactive ingredients".
>I've always thought putting an expectorant and a suppressant in the same
>medication was an odd idea.
Well... the expectorant loosens the gunk in your chest; the
suppressant does not prevent you from *consciously* coughing it out,
just stops the hacking cough that keeps you up at night.
What's really stupid would be putting an antihistamine and an
expectorant in the same product: one dries you out, and the other
stimulates production of moisture, and the net result is
unpredictable, tending to zero. (Notice that no such product is
available anymore, but I still see prescriptions for "Phenergan
Expectorant", which is gone, lo these many years. I often wonder at
all the RXs I see for promethazine, which is (among other things) an
antihistamine, for cough; it's *not* a cough suppressant, unless you
get the one with DM or codeine in it. Do these doctors know that
there's no longer any expectorant in it...?)
(This was not the only irrational combination product, either; I've
looked in the old PDRs [2], going back to 1969, and they had some
really weird stuff: things like combinations of amphetamines and
barbiturates (for appetite suppression without making you too wired);
that one seems to me like stepping on the gas and the brake at the
same time. Even worse was one called Ritonic, "for people who are
losing their vitality, drive, and zest for living"; this contained
Ritalin, methyltestosterone, ethynyl estradiol, and a whole witches'
brew of B-vitamins. It seems to me that putting both male and female
sex hormones in the same product would be kinda like putting a
locomotive at either end of a train, pulling in opposite
directions...)
[1] Senator (later Vice President) Hubert Humphrey, author of most of
the laws we now have regulating prescription drugs, was a pharmacist.
http://www.uspharmacist.com/NewLook/CE/switchingto/lesson.cfm has some
background on the Durham-Humphrey amendments of 1951 (created
prescription-only status for some drugs), 1962 (the requirement for
proof of effectiveness), and the Drug Efficacy Study Implementation
(DESI) of 1972 or so.
[2] Piss-poor Drug Reference, according to one of my professors...
--
Shalom Septimus
registered pharmacist
drug...@p0b0x.c0m <--unmung in obvious fashion
Logan Shaw
Shalom Septimus <drug...@p0b0x.c0m> wrote:
>What's really stupid would be putting an antihistamine and an
>expectorant in the same product: one dries you out, and the other
>stimulates production of moisture, and the net result is
>unpredictable, tending to zero.
For me, the net result would probably be about 16 hours of sleep
starting immediately, which is what usually happens when I taken
an antihistamine.
As long as we're talking about antihistamines and cough
suppressants and stuff, *why* is it that supermarkets have the
cold medications in order by *brand* rather than function? When
you look for green beans in the canned vegetable aisle, do you
have to look in a bunch of separate sections organized by brand?
No, all the green beens are there in a little group, so that you
can figure out just which can of green beans you want.
I'd really prefer to have all the boxes/bottles that contain
identical little red 30mg pseudoephedrine hydrochloride tablets
next to each other so that I can choose between them, since they
are exactly the same thing. Likewise, chlorpheniramine maleate
and all the other antihistamines should be grouped together. And
all the "me too" cold medications should be grouped together down
in an unobtrusive corner, so that I don't have to look at them
but people who can't be bothered to figure out what symptoms they
have and what medication they actually need can still find them.
Perhaps the shelf arrangement thing is a plot by drug companies
to keep customers confused so they won't understand the deceptive
tactics used in t.v. ads for cold medication. My favorite are
the ads that have people saying things like, "Gosh, [advertiser's
product] is so convenient, and it won't make you drowsy like
[competitor's product] does. I feel better already."
THAT'S BECAUSE ONE OF THEM IS A DECONGESTANT AND THE OTHER IS AN
ANTIHISTAMINE, STUPID. They are different drugs. They are used
to treat different conditions. It should therefore be no
surprise that they have different side effects. Of course, the
manufacturers who advertise this way also surely sell
antihistamines which *do* make you drowsy.
Oh well. End of rant. Have a nice day.
- Logan
Garrett Wollman
Logan Shaw <lo...@cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
>In article <bji91ts937c1e45ho...@news.erols.com>,
>Shalom Septimus <drug...@p0b0x.c0m> wrote:
>>expectorant in the same product: one dries you out, and the other
>>stimulates production of moisture, and the net result is
>>unpredictable, tending to zero.
>
>starting immediately, which is what usually happens when I taken
>an antihistamine.
There's a reason antihistamines are very often combined with
decongestants. The decongestant (usually phenylpropanolamine or
pseudoephedrine) is also a stimulant, and helps to counteract the
effects of the antihistamine. Unfortunately, everyone's response is
different, so they can never calibrate it quite right. (I use
Tavist-D, and find that the clemastine lasts about two hours longer
than the PPA, with the end result that I am ready to go to sleep ten
hours after taking the stuff. When I need it, it's worth the side
effects. Must go to Canada again and buy some OTC Claritin....)
>As long as we're talking about antihistamines and cough
>suppressants and stuff, *why* is it that supermarkets have the
>cold medications in order by *brand* rather than function?
Because they don't want you to notice that most of the stuff there is
(a) store brand and (b) the same stuff. At least that's what the
stores around here do; at CVS, next to every Sudafed product is a
similarly-formulated CVS-brand ``Sufedrine''. (The other product I
commonly use is the ``Non-drying'' version of the same; I should
probably do a study on myself to determine whether the guaifenesin
actually makes a difference in my relief.)
>When you look for green beans in the canned vegetable aisle, do you
>have to look in a bunch of separate sections organized by brand? No,
>all the green beens are there in a little group, so that you can
>figure out just which can of green beans you want.
When you look for wheat bread in the bakery aisle, do you have to look
in a bunch of separate sections organized by brand? When you look for
cola in the beverage aisle, do you have to look in a mbunch of
separate sections organized by brand?
Some of the items you buy in a supermarket are (effectively) sold on
consignment for the original manufacturers. Sometimes, the
manufacturer pays a fee to the supermarket chain for so many
shelf-feed of space, and pays its own employees to deliver product,
stock shelves, and remove returns. In other cases, the manufacturer
pays a fee to get its products featured more prominently than
competitors', but leaves distribution and stocking up to the store.
Stores are just now deploying the sort of EDI mechanisms which will
make grocery sales truly `consignment' for most high-volume and
perishable products.
This is the primary reason why it is incredibly difficult for a small
company to launch a new consumer food product; one must either pay
exorbitant slotting fees or sell huge volumes of product. This didn't
use to be the case -- it's all happened in the last twenty years or so
with the megaconsolidation of what was once a very fragmented
industry. (Most of the supermarkets on the East Coast are owned by
European conglomerates, including both of the major chains here in
Boston.)
David P. Murphy
> As long as we're talking about antihistamines and cough
> suppressants and stuff, *why* is it that supermarkets have the
> cold medications in order by *brand* rather than function? When
> you look for green beans in the canned vegetable aisle, do you
> have to look in a bunch of separate sections organized by brand?
> No, all the green beens are there in a little group, so that you
> can figure out just which can of green beans you want.
Because, like someone faithfully voting the party ticket,
many people buy the same brand regardless of what ailment
they're addressing. Therefore those products are lumped
together for their convenience.
ok
dpm
--
David P. Murphy http://www.myths.com/~dpm/
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