Imminent brain-death of BSDI predicted; film at 11. (It's Monday)
Ben Cantrick (alias Macky Stingray)
My linux box at home is the most kludged, patched up, tossed-together,
half-assed box on the planet.
- But SSH compiled there first-try, right out of the tarfile.
Now, we have these spiffy new FreeBSD boxes at school. Latest and
greatest GCC, etc, etc, etc...
- SHH will not compile correctly there, without a special
obscure switch to disable assembly code which slows down the
math routines.
Do you know why?
* Because the make that came with these boxes is BRAINDEAD!
Somehow, the line:
.S.o:
foo $(BAR) etc
Does manage to enlighten make about how to get from a .S file to a .o
file. I did 'make -d A <makefile in question>' and piped it through more
to look at all the translations it thought it knew about. Sure enough,
.S -> .o was not one of them. Oh, sure, it has ._s_ -> .o. I'm
guessing it thinks that .s and .S are the same thing, or something.
I am NOT amused. BSDI is only a couple of hours from here. I could
go down there and put them out of my misery...
if my motorcycle wasn't broken.
ARGH! It MUST be Monday...
-Ben
--
"BGC: Because some of us believe women over 14 are still sexy."
=--------- http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~cantrick/home.html -------------=
*Ben Cantrick, diehard BGC otaku and Priss fan. ---> THE BGC DUBS SUCK! <---*
*Mac? Ha. "When I want to spend 50% of my time fighting an OS, I'll use VMS."*
Matthew Sams
In article <568ebu$h...@peabody.colorado.edu>,
Ben Cantrick (alias Macky Stingray) <cant...@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
> My linux box at home is the most kludged, patched up, tossed-together,
>half-assed box on the planet.
Recovering linux freak are we? Well you've made the first step.[1]
> * Because the make that came with these boxes is BRAINDEAD!
Considering that at last sighting there were over 17 versions of make
floating around, I'm not surprised you had problems. Get gnu-make, it'll
work with any linux package even the linux kernel. Oh wait, gnu-make *is*
the linux kernel, oh my.
> I am NOT amused. BSDI is only a couple of hours from here. I could
>go down there and put them out of my misery...
I never knew BSDI sold freebsd. I always thought they sold BSD/OS[2]
for $1000.
Obasr: I used to hate students who wanted to install linux[3]. But then
I noticed that the grades of those who did plummeted dramatically.
Now I actively encourage students in the hope that they'll fail out.
-Matthew
[1] not really meant as a linux tirade. or is it?
[2] or is that 386bsd or bsd386 or 386/os, ahhh
[3] the incessant questions, the feeling that they're kewl 'cause[4] they
got linux and nt bootable on the same machine. Finally I feigned total
ignorance of PC hardware[5].
[4] or worse yet "i'm a sysadmin because I installed linux and created my
own account"
[5] not too difficult really
Jason Lindquist
mac...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Matthew Sams) writes:
>Obasr: I used to hate students who wanted to install linux[3]. But then
>I noticed that the grades of those who did plummeted dramatically.
>Now I actively encourage students in the hope that they'll fail out.
>[3] the incessant questions, the feeling that they're kewl 'cause[4] they
> got linux and nt bootable on the same machine. Finally I feigned total
> ignorance of PC hardware[5].
>[4] or worse yet "i'm a sysadmin because I installed linux and created my
> own account"
Once upon a time, installing Linux actually meant something. Of
course, the version number << 1, there weren't any books or any
CDs, you ftp'd a dozen floppies or you stayed with DOS or OS/2.
You HAD to know what you were doing, and well, *just* to get
it to boot, let alone create an account. And you had to hope you
could tweak things enough to work with whatever random hardware you
had. If you *did* manage to get this far, okay, you could
legitimately claim to be k3w1.
Of course, with the explosion of fly-by-night linux-based ISPs,
and the simplicity of the install process, what's the big deal
anymore? So now we're inundated by mindless lamers that should
really be better off sticking with Lose95 and such. The twerp
high school kid that shows up on an IRC channel bragging 'cause
he got it running... yeah kid, that's nice, you're only four
years behind the times, it's not that cool anymore. It's
like someone showing up with a Captain Crunch whistle and a
Radio Scam DTMF dialer thinking they're a rad phone phreak.
Killfiles and /ignore are such wonderful things.
As is the occasional pingbomb, for the persistent ones...
JL
--
Jason A. Lindquist "If you're falling off a cliff, you might as
li...@uiuc.edu <*> well try to fly. You've got nothing to lose."
=================================NOTE==================================
Senders of unsolicited commercial/propaganda e-mail subject to fees.
Details at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/jlindqui
Mr Stuart Lamble
Jason Lindquist said something like:
(: Once upon a time, installing Linux actually meant something. Of
(: course, the version number << 1, there weren't any books or any
(: CDs, you ftp'd a dozen floppies or you stayed with DOS or OS/2.
(: You HAD to know what you were doing, and well, *just* to get
(: it to boot, let alone create an account. And you had to hope you
(: could tweak things enough to work with whatever random hardware you
(: had. If you *did* manage to get this far, okay, you could
(: legitimately claim to be k3w1.
Heh. Does this mean that the Hurd is now the measure of success in this
kind of thing? :-) (no, I haven't got around to installing it yet...I'll
probably start on it after exams, when I can afford pain of this kind. :)
--
All emails sent from known sites supporting spams will be ditched upon
arrival. This includes, but is not limited to, interramp.com,
cyberpromo.com, and moneyworld.com. Copies of the .procmailrc used for
this are available upon request.
Jonathan Guthrie
Jason Lindquist (jlin...@uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Once upon a time, installing Linux actually meant something. Of
: course, the version number << 1, there weren't any books or any
: CDs, you ftp'd a dozen floppies or you stayed with DOS or OS/2.
I patched my first Linux kernel (it was V0.11, or so I believe) in 1992.
(The patch was to add hardware handshaking to the serial drivers so that
I could use my high-speed modem to call in to work remotely and it would
actually work.) I am offended that anyone might think that this makes me
eligible to be "k3w1" or "rad" or whetever the hell those reprobates
consider good.
At that time, the whole installation system (boot+root) fit on a
single 360k floppy, and you had to use a DOS (or OS/2, which just happens
to be what else I was running at the time) TAR program to write files
to floppies so that you could read them into a running system. I remember
deciding to not figure out ShoeLace (or whatever the heck it was called)
so I had to boot from floppy. (I also remember patching the binary image
so that it would use the correct partition of the hard disk as the root
partition.)
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Information Broker Systems +713-840-7812 http://www.brokersys.com/
1200 Post Oak Blvd, Houston, TX 77056, USA
We sell Internet access and commercial Web space. We also are general
network consultants in the greater Houston area.
Mike Knell
In article <56dlh5$g...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Jason Lindquist <jlin...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>mac...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Matthew Sams) writes:
>>Obasr: I used to hate students who wanted to install linux[3]. But then
>>I noticed that the grades of those who did plummeted dramatically.
>>Now I actively encourage students in the hope that they'll fail out.
>>[4] or worse yet "i'm a sysadmin because I installed linux and created my
>> own account"
>
>course, the version number << 1, there weren't any books or any
>CDs, you ftp'd a dozen floppies or you stayed with DOS or OS/2.
Yup. I ..err.. "discovered" Linux as a first year student back in 1992,
and installed it from loadsa floppies with kernel 0.99.4. [1] Getting that
working and playing with it was very, very, educational indeed and taught
me lots about Unix. And yup, my grades plummeted.
Writing off Linux *entirely* as a weenie-OS is somewhat unfair to some
people who *are* doing clueful and interesting things with it, and as a
PC operating system, well, few suck less.. but there are many k3wl d00dz
and dodgy ISPs out there who really give it a bad name it doesn't deserve.
However, I have to point out that I was disappointed upon installing
Slackware for someone this morning, when I realised that the default
window manager appears to be fvwm95 these days. Oy! Volkerding! *LART*
I must get that Retro-Linux archive going sometime..
Mike
[1] Leaving the ftp running overnight from tsx-11, as the fatpipe was
even thinner then..
--
Mike Knell -- a Good, Safe Alternative to Wholesale Murder. ((c) jldomini)
Department of Computer Science, The University of Nottingham, UK
A huge green fierce snake bars the way! -=- http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~mpk/
Steve VanDevender
m...@cs.nott.ac.uk (Mike Knell) writes:
> Yup. I ..err.. "discovered" Linux as a first year student back in 1992,
> and installed it from loadsa floppies with kernel 0.99.4. [1] Getting that
> working and playing with it was very, very, educational indeed and taught
> me lots about Unix. And yup, my grades plummeted.
I first started using Linux in early 1993, after one friend sold me his
386 box before he left for school in Germany, and another friend who had
been encouraging me to run Linux for months loaned me his SLS
installation set (featuring Linux 0.99.6).
I had been using and administering UNIX for years. I started out on a
Masscomp 5400 running Masscomp RTU and a VAX running BSD 4.2. I knew
UNIX. I loved UNIX. It finally dawned on me that _I was running UNIX
in my own home_ (well, OK, something nearly indistinguishable from
UNIX). Before then my only home computer was an antiquated but trusty
HP 150. I was in heaven.
Since then I have upgraded continuously (the eternal curse of Linux).
But none of that wimpy "I'll just buy a new Slackware CD and reinstall
from scratch". No way. I download sources and compile them. I know
where _everything_ is on my system. The only exception is that I
usually get binary versions of libc and X. I have gone from 0.99.6
running on a 386-40 with a 120M IDE disk to 2.0.25 running on a
486DX2/66 with a 1G SCSI disk, all in the same box. I stayed up all
night upgrading to ELF shared libraries, mostly because I wanted to
recompile my most commonly-used stuff so running my usual set of
programs wouldn't require the a.out libraries to be loaded.
> Writing off Linux *entirely* as a weenie-OS is somewhat unfair to some
> people who *are* doing clueful and interesting things with it, and as a
> PC operating system, well, few suck less.. but there are many k3wl d00dz
> and dodgy ISPs out there who really give it a bad name it doesn't deserve.
The problem with an operating system that runs on the hardware of the
masses is the stupid horse-brained masses will run it.
> However, I have to point out that I was disappointed upon installing
> Slackware for someone this morning, when I realised that the default
> window manager appears to be fvwm95 these days. Oy! Volkerding! *LART*
The other day this guy was showing off his Power Mac running the latest
beta PowerPC Linux. He didn't think he could run X because he couldn't
get xdm to work. I typed "startx" on the console and X fired right up.
The next day he had downloaded and compiled fvwm95. Now, he's got the
Mac stashed under his desk and hooked up to a Dell monitor, so you can
barely even tell that it's a Mac at all. The normal fvwm95 "Start" bar
has some weird little pixmap in it. At first, I thought for maximum
confusion he should nab a Win95 logo and stuff it in there instead.
Then I had an even more evil idea.
I nabbed the Apple logo off the Apple home page, and after running it
through XV and hand-editing the XPM file to get rid of some extraneous
colors and make the background transparent, I had an Apple logo suitably
sized for the fvwm95 Start button.
Sean C. Malloy
In article <56g13i$j...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>, lam...@silas.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr Stuart Lamble) wrote:
>(: Once upon a time, installing Linux actually meant something.
>(: [...]
>(: You HAD to know what you were doing, and well, *just* to get
>(: it to boot, let alone create an account. And you had to hope you
>(: could tweak things enough to work with whatever random hardware you
>(: had.
>Heh. Does this mean that the Hurd is now the measure of success in this
>kind of thing? :-) (no, I haven't got around to installing it yet...I'll
>probably start on it after exams, when I can afford pain of this kind. :)
Pain installing Linux? These days? Hell, Red Hat comes up in X if you've got
a well-known (read:S3) video card.
Now -securing- it, that's another matter.
-Sean
--
Sean C. Malloy e-Net, Inc. sma...@zilker.net
Khan
Mike Knell wrote:
>
> In article <56dlh5$g...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> Jason Lindquist <jlin...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >mac...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Matthew Sams) writes:
> >>Obasr: I used to hate students who wanted to install linux[3]. But then
> >>I noticed that the grades of those who did plummeted dramatically.
> >>Now I actively encourage students in the hope that they'll fail out.
> (snip)
> >>[4] or worse yet "i'm a sysadmin because I installed linux and created my
> >> own account"
> >
> >Once upon a time, installing Linux actually meant something. Of
> >course, the version number << 1, there weren't any books or any
> >CDs, you ftp'd a dozen floppies or you stayed with DOS or OS/2.
> >legitimately claim to be k3w1.
>
> and installed it from loadsa floppies with kernel 0.99.4. [1] Getting that
> working and playing with it was very, very, educational indeed and taught
> me lots about Unix. And yup, my grades plummeted.
>
> people who *are* doing clueful and interesting things with it, and as a
> PC operating system, well, few suck less.. but there are many k3wl d00dz
> and dodgy ISPs out there who really give it a bad name it doesn't deserve.
I have mentioned several times every time I go into "Software Etc." (Not
too
many lusers hang around there... at least they intend to pay for their
software...) and see all the damn "LINUX THIS" "LINUX THAT" "LINUX
INTERNET
SERVER THIS" and "LINUX UNLEASHED THIS" and "LINUX IN 30 DAYS THIS" and
"LINUX IN 24 HOURS THAT"... that "It's time for me to change my
Operating
System again."
Next time when a luser asks me "Hey, do you run Linux," my response will
be
either:
"Yeah, I'm running it on my BeBox, you piss ant x-86 luser" or
"Linux, what's that? I'm running BSDI/FreeBSD/BeOS/Mach/Plan 9" (pick
one)
I hate having things in common with complete luzers.
-Khan "HI AGAIN, PATRICK!" Klatt
Super-User
>>someone from the uk wrote:
>>>mac...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Matthew Sams) writes:
>>>Obasr: I used to hate students who wanted to install linux[3]. But then
>>>I noticed that the grades of those who did plummeted dramatically.
>>>Now I actively encourage students in the hope that they'll fail out.
>(snip)
>>>[4] or worse yet "i'm a sysadmin because I installed linux and created my
> own account"
>>
>>Once upon a time, installing Linux actually meant something. Of
[..]
[..]
>Writing off Linux *entirely* as a weenie-OS is somewhat unfair to some
>people who *are* doing clueful and interesting things with it, and as a
>PC operating system, well, few suck less.. but there are many k3wl d00dz
>and dodgy ISPs out there who really give it a bad name it doesn't deserve.
Hold on now. I'm not writing Linux off as a weenie-OS. Maybe you're referring
to someone else's comments though. I'm just tired of people who with a few
months experience on a home box think they can do my job[0]. I've got five
years experience [1] at this job but, I think I've half the experience I
need to consider myself competent. Of course, the other sysadmins I know
from work and conferences are truly competent so they force me to raise my
bar quite a bit higher than others do.
I've been reminded twice this weekend that I really do have a decent
job with a liveable salary. It could be better but, it could be so
much worse.
[0] maybe you're a faster read than I am but, not that much.
[1] full-time mind you. Recently, one person was confused about this. She
thought I was a student who worked parttime for five years or was on
a coop program. I guess *working* at a university is an oxymoron to most.
Paul S. Sawyer
In article <328E90...@pacificrim.net> kh...@pacificrim.net writes:
>Mike Knell wrote:
>
>I have mentioned several times every time I go into "Software Etc." [...]
If they meant to sell Unix software, wouldn't it be "Software /etc" ???[1]
[1] Sun Software might be "Software /opt", but don't get me started...
--
Paul S. Sawyer - Paul the Interrupt-Driven Paul....@UNH.edu
UNH Telecommunications and Technical Services Voice: +1 603 862 3262
50 College Road FAX: +1 603 862 4545
Durham, New Hampshire 03824-3523
Ryan O'Connell
Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
| Since then I have upgraded continuously (the eternal curse of Linux).
| But none of that wimpy "I'll just buy a new Slackware CD and reinstall
| from scratch". No way. I download sources and compile them. I know
| where _everything_ is on my system. The only exception is that I
| usually get binary versions of libc and X.
Binary libc? Noooo.... If I didnt compile it, it doesn't exist.[1]
| I nabbed the Apple logo off the Apple home page, and after running it
| through XV and hand-editing the XPM file to get rid of some extraneous
| colors and make the background transparent, I had an Apple logo suitably
| sized for the fvwm95 Start button.
Just as long as you're not the poor sucker who then has to work out what OS
they are running over the phone afterwards...
[1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
--
* Ryan O'Connell *** ry...@bcs.org.uk ** finger cs9...@molnir.brunel.ac.uk *
* http://www.brunel.ac.uk/~cs95rro/ ** PGP 15BA31D1E33A3E00BED4EA241F1183B4 *
***** Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is [INTJ]*
***** adequately explained by stupidity. *******
Paul Boven
On 19 Nov 1996 16:47:04 GMT, Ryan O'Connell <ccu...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>Binary libc? Noooo.... If I didnt compile it, it doesn't exist.[1]
>[1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
*bzzt* wrongo.. did on my Sun3/60, the neccesary libs, then clock, xterm,
xhextris and the like. On a 80MB SCSI with NetBSD-1.0. One lib at a time.
Oh, and I think it had 4MB back then... still was worth the effort,
because Sun Consoles just don't scroll. [2]
[1] Not my footnote, see above.
[2] Hardware Sucks.
No, definetly not usefull information, just something for all you sysadmin
people to have nightmares about. *evil grin*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Boven, <e.p....@student.utwente.nl> PE1NUT QRV 145.575 JO32KF
Nothing would get done in the world, if we didn't have insomniacs.
Or at least, nothing would get done at night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Gosling
In article <56soa8$a...@mimas.brunel.ac.uk>,
False. Every bloody major release since somewhere in X10 ...
-patrick
Mr Stuart Lamble
Ryan O'Connell said something like:
(: [1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
Oh, I don't know about that...Keith Lewis, one of the sysadmins here at
Monash, was fiddling around with X in an attempt to get xdm working with
Kerberos[1]. He didn't succeed - but he found out interesting things about
compiling X, specifically:
On an alpha, leave it going for a half day or so.[2]
On a moderately fast 486, two days is about right.
On an ancient 386DX33, leave it for a week, come back, it's still going,
turn it off. :-)
That was, admittedly, not your standard reason for compiling things...
[1] Don't ask.
[2] These figures are from memory, and as such, are something of an
approximation. Give or take 50% :-)
Steve VanDevender
ccu...@brunel.ac.uk (Ryan O'Connell) writes:
> | I nabbed the Apple logo off the Apple home page, and after running it
> | through XV and hand-editing the XPM file to get rid of some extraneous
> | colors and make the background transparent, I had an Apple logo suitably
> | sized for the fvwm95 Start button.
>
> Just as long as you're not the poor sucker who then has to work out what OS
> they are running over the phone afterwards...
The guy with the mklinux box and fvwm95 with an Apple logo in the
"Start" button is one of our microcomputer support staff. He doesn't
call people for help, he gets the calls for help.
Richard Letts
Ryan O'Connell (ccu...@brunel.ac.uk) wrote:
) [1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
I did
Therefore, I'm a Nobody :-(
RjL
Frank McConnell
Hah! X11R4 for Sun 2, built on a Sun 2/120 with 4MB of RAM running
SunOS 3.5. It took 18 hours. I started it just before bedtime one
night, and it was done shortly after I got home from work the next
evening. Hey, as long as I was using it to heat the apartment, I
might as well get some useful cycles out of it, right?
-Frank McConnell
<f...@aphasia.us.com>, for a while yet
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, f...@aphasia.us.com (Frank McConnell) said:
>Ryan O'Connell <ccu...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>>[1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
>
>Hah! X11R4 for Sun 2, built on a Sun 2/120 with 4MB of RAM running
>SunOS 3.5. It took 18 hours. I started it just before bedtime one
I built X10 on a Sun3, because Sun at the time didn't support X. We also
didn't have internet access at the time so we had to pay for a magtape copy of
the sources, and fix some of the egregious vaxisms in the code.
--
Paul Tomblin, PP-ASEL _|_ Rochester Flying Club web page:
____/___\____ http://www.servtech.com/public/
___________[o0o]___________ ptomblin/rfc.html
ptom...@xcski.com O O O
Patrick Gosling
In article <E182C...@xcski.com>, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>I built X10 on a Sun3, because Sun at the time didn't support X. We also
>didn't have internet access at the time so we had to pay for a magtape copy of
>the sources, and fix some of the egregious vaxisms in the code.
It was bad enough to get X10 to build on a microvax, let alone the sun3 ...
I think we might still have that magtape lying around somewhere in my
former and future [1] department.
-patrick
[1] eight and a bit more days to go, and I return to happier, more clueful
climes. wanders off whistling "it's coming home, it's coming home,
football's coming home ..." <SELF LART>
Matt Bartley
In article <571qdv$m...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
Patrick Gosling <jp...@esc.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <E182C...@xcski.com>, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>>I built X10 on a Sun3, because Sun at the time didn't support X. We also
>>didn't have internet access at the time so we had to pay for a magtape copy
>> of
>>the sources, and fix some of the egregious vaxisms in the code.
>It was bad enough to get X10 to build on a microvax, let alone the sun3 ...
>
>I think we might still have that magtape lying around somewhere in my
>former and future [1] department.
I've compiled X11R6 many times on this Sparc 1 and on its predecessor,
a Sun 3/60. The process isn't too bad on this thing, slow as it is.
<LART reason="Me too!">
Anyway, since this thread was about Linux, has anyone compiled XFree86
from source? I haven't tried that yet, as I don't have any XFree86
source code that's even remotely recent (maybe none at all come to
think of it).
--
Matt Bartley 33 49' 23" N 117 54' 11" W
bart...@helium.iecorp.com
299,792,458 meters per second: It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
Paul Tomblin
In a previous article, bart...@helium.iecorp.com (Matt Bartley) said:
>In article <571qdv$m...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
>Patrick Gosling <jp...@esc.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>In article <E182C...@xcski.com>, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>
>>>I built X10 on a Sun3, because Sun at the time didn't support X. We also
>>>didn't have internet access at the time so we had to pay for a magtape copy
>>> of
>>>the sources, and fix some of the egregious vaxisms in the code.
>
>>It was bad enough to get X10 to build on a microvax, let alone the sun3 ...
>
>a Sun 3/60. The process isn't too bad on this thing, slow as it is.
BFD[1]. Unlike X10, X11 was written by people who did not think "All the
World's a Vax"[2]. They are more likely to believe "All the World's a SPARC".
X10 was written by people who believed if they passed a pointer to a long,
into a function that expected a pointer to a short, it would work fine. And
on a Vax, it would. On a Sun, it would always be zero. (Different byte
ordering.)
[1] Big Furry Deal cf. Dogbert.
[2] See Henry Spencer's "10 Commandments for C Programmers".
brian moore
In article <56prf0$o...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
ro...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Super-User) writes:
> Hold on now. I'm not writing Linux off as a weenie-OS. Maybe you're referring
> to someone else's comments though. I'm just tired of people who with a few
> months experience on a home box think they can do my job[0]. I've got five
> years experience [1] at this job but, I think I've half the experience I
> need to consider myself competent. Of course, the other sysadmins I know
> from work and conferences are truly competent so they force me to raise my
> bar quite a bit higher than others do.
I boggle to see someone that posts news as root making comments about
anything being "weenie-OS".
Stephan Neuhaus
What was it that ccu...@brunel.ac.uk (Ryan O'Connell) wrote
in <56soa8$a...@mimas.brunel.ac.uk>? Ah, yes:
> [1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
What? Of course we do. Starting at R5, now at R6.1. All you need
is a huge disk and patience.
Fun,
Stephan
--
"... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week.
Time to die...". - Peter Gutmann in alt.sysadmin.recovery
Eric Schwartz
Matt Bartley (bart...@helium.iecorp.com) wrote:
(X geeking deleted)
: Anyway, since this thread was about Linux, has anyone compiled XFree86
: from source? I haven't tried that yet, as I don't have any XFree86
: source code that's even remotely recent (maybe none at all come to
: think of it).
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and the coffee mug. It's really
trivial. Beyond trivial. Unlike, say, compiling nethack for
HPs... *innocent whistle*
-=Eric
Matthew Sams
Sigh, I knew that would come back to haunt me. Alright, now for the full
explanation of how this happened. I was logged in as root on the console of
a Solaris 2.5 box. While waiting for a backup to finish I thought I'd read
news. So I 'su - maclean'. Now, don't forget I'm on a Solaris 2.x box.
Read news.. post news.. get really annoying mail from local weenie about
posting as root.. think to myself, damn.
Now to reiterate. I have never said that Linux is a weenie-os. In fact,
despite my using the word twice in this post, I don't like the word
'weenie'.
-Matthew
Matt Bartley
In article <574lk3$r...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
Jonathan Stott <jj...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>In article <5723qt$6...@helium.iecorp.com>,
>Matt Bartley <bart...@helium.iecorp.com> wrote:
>>Anyway, since this thread was about Linux, has anyone compiled XFree86
>>from source? I haven't tried that yet, as I don't have any XFree86
>>source code that's even remotely recent (maybe none at all come to
>>think of it).
>Yep and it sucks. 25 megs of code (10-15 if you only do the servers)
>and the Imakefiles always get the include paths wrong on me so I'm
>forever hand patching makefiles to get it to work. Even when it works
Sounds like our misadventures with X11R5 on the Sun 3/60.
>Jonathan Stott O- jj...@po.cwru.edu
>CWRU Dept. of Physics jst...@poly.cwru.edu
>School of Graduate Studies http://poly.phys.cwru.edu/~jstott/
> An optimist is someone who believes Schroedinger's cat is half alive.
>
>
>--
>Jonathan Stott O- jj...@po.cwru.edu
>CWRU Dept. of Physics jst...@poly.cwru.edu
>School of Graduate Studies http://poly.phys.cwru.edu/~jstott/
> An optimist is someone who believes Schroedinger's cat is half alive.
Double sig error. (core dumped)
[inews fodder]
Peter deFriesse
Somewhere off the top of my screen in article
<574k6q$s...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
the esteemed mac...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca said:
>In article <573fpv$2...@news.cmc.net>, brian moore <b...@cmc.net> wrote:
>>In article <56prf0$o...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
>> ro...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Super-User) writes:
[...]
>Now to reiterate. I have never said that Linux is a weenie-os. In fact,
Maybe not. But I almost got punched out when I pointed out
to a cow-orker that it is the Mac-OS of UNIXes.
<duck> <run-for-cover>
--
peter defriesse \\ computing facilities management \\ OIT \\ UMass
[OIT doesn't opine for me. I return that courtesy..]
Sysadmins don't go to hell; we're already doing our time in purgatory.
Matt Bartley
>In a previous article, bart...@helium.iecorp.com (Matt Bartley) said:
>>In article <571qdv$m...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
>>Patrick Gosling <jp...@esc.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>In article <E182C...@xcski.com>, Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote:
>>>>I built X10 on a Sun3, because Sun at the time didn't support X. We also
>>>>didn't have internet access at the time so we had to pay for a magtape copy
>>>> of
>>>>the sources, and fix some of the egregious vaxisms in the code.
>>>It was bad enough to get X10 to build on a microvax, let alone the sun3 ...
>>I've compiled X11R6 many times on this Sparc 1 and on its predecessor,
>>a Sun 3/60. The process isn't too bad on this thing, slow as it is.
>BFD[1]. Unlike X10, X11 was written by people who did not think "All the
>World's a Vax"[2]. They are more likely to believe "All the World's a SPARC".
Before my time. When I first started to use and abuse my Sun 3/60,
X11R5 had just come out.
I wasn't commenting on compiling X10, I was answering the assertion
that "no one compiles their own X" (though I think he was specifically
talking about XFree86).
Ryan O'Connell
f...@aphasia.us.com (Frank McConnell) wrote:
| Hey, as long as I was using it to heat the apartment, I
| might as well get some useful cycles out of it, right?
Heh, computers are *far* better at heating rooms than electric fires.
Especially mine. Power supply is rated at 220W but I'm pretty sure I've gone
_well_ over that. 3 HDDs, 3 FDDs, Tape drive, CD-ROM drive, 2 network cards
plus all the usual toys. Of course, most of that stuff doesn't work properly...
CDR Michael Dobson
In article <56soa8$a...@mimas.brunel.ac.uk>,
Ryan O'Connell <ccu...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>[1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
BT, DT, under IRIX, SunOS 4.x, and 386bsd 0.1, so there! Phfffft!
Tried it on an AT&T 3B2 with SysVR3.4 but couldn't get the socket stuff
working in the week or so I had to play with it :-(
M.
--
CDR M. Dobson | NetNews Admin info.usuhs.mil
Radiation Medicine Department | dob...@info.usuhs.mil
Armed Forces Radiobiology |
Research Institute | I don't have enough rank to speak for DoD
Gabriel Krabbe
on 21 Nov 1996 09:34:21 -0800, Matt Bartley wrote
regarding "Linux weenies - was Re: Imminent brain-death of BSDI":
> Anyway, since this thread was about Linux, has anyone compiled XFree86
> from source?
yes.
> I haven't tried that yet,
don't.
> as I don't have any XFree86
> source code that's even remotely recent (maybe none at all come to
> think of it).
you know where to get it.
anyway, compiling xfree86 in the background on a p90 w/ 48meg ram
while still trying to use the blasted thing to do anything took
just over 43 hours. oh, plus about 11 hours of getting it to
compile at all on your very personal[1], very particular[1], and very
unsupported[1] setup.
[1] aren't they all?
Gabriel
--
WAITER! there's soup in my fly!
finger for geek code and pgp public key
Geir Emblemsv}g
In article <56vtkl$7...@illuin.demon.co.uk>,
All respect to you, nobody's perfect.
--
Sir Geir the Gloomy of .no | Ikke noe kan redde dere! Jeg er
| uovervinnelig! Jeg er SELVE DOMMEN!
| -DD
Khan
Approved: Who the heck made this self-moderated anyway?
brian moore wrote:
>
> In article <56prf0$o...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
> ro...@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca (Super-User) writes:
> > Hold on now. I'm not writing Linux off as a weenie-OS. Maybe you're referring
> > to someone else's comments though. I'm just tired of people who with a few
> > months experience on a home box think they can do my job[0]. I've got five
> > years experience [1] at this job but, I think I've half the experience I
> > need to consider myself competent. Of course, the other sysadmins I know
> > from work and conferences are truly competent so they force me to raise my
> > bar quite a bit higher than others do.
>
> I boggle to see someone that posts news as root making comments about
> anything being "weenie-OS".
Hear, hear.
-Khan
Richard Letts
Peter deFriesse (pe...@emily.oit.umass.edu) wrote:
) Maybe not. But I almost got punched out when I pointed out
) to a cow-orker that it is the Mac-OS of UNIXes.
my pc at work dual-boots something95[0] and Linux. It failed to boot
linux the otherday so I reformatted the disk[1] and installed
slakware3.1. imagine my surprise when I restarted X, and got a window
manager looking not entirely unlike the other thing I run.
indded it is the MACos of UNIXes
[0] I'm a recovering sysadmin.
[1] see http://www.salford.ac.uk/ais/Network/information/windows95.html
[2] forgot that bit, hey, ho, hack the mail queue
--
RjL
+----------------------------+
| ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk | Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
+----------------------------+
Wonko the Sane
On 22 Nov 1996 10:20:00 GMT, Ryan O'Connell <cs9...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>f...@aphasia.us.com (Frank McConnell) wrote:
>| Hey, as long as I was using it to heat the apartment, I
>| might as well get some useful cycles out of it, right?
>
>Heh, computers are *far* better at heating rooms than electric fires.
>Especially mine. Power supply is rated at 220W but I'm pretty sure I've gone
>_well_ over that. 3 HDDs, 3 FDDs, Tape drive, CD-ROM drive, 2 network cards
>plus all the usual toys. Of course, most of that stuff doesn't work properly...
just get yourself a couple VAX 780s. one or two of them should heat a nice
sized house pretty well. hell, four of them took the comunications closet
to 250 degrees or so when the ventilator stopped. (funny how the phones
stopped working right as well... i told them not to mess with the ventilator,
did they listen?? of course not)
-wonko
brian moore
In article <329770...@pacificrim.net>,
The real question is who is silly enough to honor it. It has very little
net effect (pun intended), since most of the spammers are quite capable
of forging approved lines, and usually do so just in case.
I guess some people really do leave alt.* open for newgrouping.
As for the subject line.... Linux is a nice stable and free OS. If a
lot of idjuts run it, that's hardly the fault of the OS. I see a lot
of idjuts running Slowaris (look through the sun newsgroups and see how
many people get their system into an unusable state by changing root's
shell to /bin/csh or forgetting the root password, or not knowing how
to add users properly (like using capital letters in their username),
but that doesn't make it less of an OS.
Jan Kujawa
b...@cmc.net (brian moore) writes:
> of idjuts running Slowaris (look through the sun newsgroups and see how
> many people get their system into an unusable state by changing root's
> shell to /bin/csh or forgetting the root password, or not knowing how
> to add users properly (like using capital letters in their username),
> but that doesn't make it less of an OS.
Heh heh heh. In all actuality, features like these tend to endear an
OS to me.
I *want* my computer aimed at my foot and loaded at all times. It
keeps me alert. And if it darwinises those less apt -- so be it.
-kuj
--
| this is my .sig. there are many .sigs like it, but this one is mine... |
| finger kuj...@uncle.montana.com for info/pgp key/etc | fnord | NO CARRIER |
| http://www.montana.com/personal/kujawa/ | You can't smoke the CARPET, man! |
"Dear God! What's on the end of that leash?" "I tamper with nature as a hobby."
Pete Ehlke
ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk (Richard Letts) writes:
>my pc at work dual-boots something95[0] and Linux. It failed to boot
>linux the otherday so I reformatted the disk[1] and installed
>slakware3.1. imagine my surprise when I restarted X, and got a window
>manager looking not entirely unlike the other thing I run.
Yup. In case anyone still has any illusions about slackware, it
now loads fvwm95 as the default window manager. As someone else
said recently, Oi! Volkerding! LART!!!
--
Pete Ehlke p...@tezcat.com p...@io.com mp...@the.satanic.org
"The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
failed to start because of the following error:
The operation completed successfully." -Windows NT Server v3.51
Michael F Gordon
In <56vtkl$7...@illuin.demon.co.uk> ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk (Richard Letts) writes:
>) [1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
>I did
>Therefore, I'm a Nobody :-(
That's OK, nobody's perfect.
Michael Gordon
--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Keith T. Garner
p...@tezcat.com (Pete Ehlke) writes:
>Yup. In case anyone still has any illusions about slackware, it
>now loads fvwm95 as the default window manager. As someone else
>said recently, Oi! Volkerding! LART!!!
RedHat does this as well, and it has the bonus of coming with some nice
graphical tools for doing everything from adding users to configuring the
network to editing the inittab stuff.
--Keith, who thought Linux was installed to escape Win95
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith T. Garner http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/k-garner k-ga...@uiuc.edu
"I wish I was in Tijuana, eating bar-b-qued iguana." -- Wall of VooDoo
CS - University of Illinois - ACM LUG Chair - Illigal & Art&Design BOFH
Wilson Roberto Afonso
b...@cmc.net (brian moore) wrote:
>[...] I see a lot
>of idjuts running Slowaris [...]
>but that doesn't make it less of an OS.
...the operative word here being "that".
-Wilson
Al Castanoli
In article <57ddd1$n...@news2.cais.com>,
Joseph S. D. Yao <js...@cais.cais.com> wrote:
>In article <574r3n$9...@info.usuhs.mil>,
>CDR Michael Dobson <dob...@info.usuhs.mil> wrote:
>>In article <56soa8$a...@mimas.brunel.ac.uk>,
>>Ryan O'Connell <ccu...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Tried it on an AT&T 3B2 with SysVR3.4 but couldn't get the socket stuff
>>working in the week or so I had to play with it :-(
>
>they got them working in sVr4.[1]
It could be done, but was a royal pain.
>OBTW, is AFRRI on the USUHS campus? Or down with WRAIR and AFIP and
>the rest?[2]
>
>[1] Not useful - who uses 3B2s any more? With sVr3?
Quite a few of the 3B2/600G's, running SVR4 the way AT&T intended it/them
to be, are still in use, mainly because the lusers aren't allowed anywhere
near them and they hardly ever fall over. They surely are a lot more
fault tolerant than the 3B15's [0] we just unplugged last year.
Wonder what kind of support SCO will give for them, but Lucent is still
teaching schools for the maintnenance technicians and sysadmins. The
little beasts just keep working, and rarely require attention, even under
heavy loads, something I wish I could say for the newer servers.
[0] refridgerator sized things running SVR2.2 - still used 9track tapes
Alder the SOBer
--
Al Castanoli | afc...@texas.net | afn2...@afn.org
| ah...@rgfn.epcc.edu | <insert standard disclaimers>
"Computers save time like kudzu prevents soil erosion."
Joseph S. D. Yao
In article <574r3n$9...@info.usuhs.mil>,
CDR Michael Dobson <dob...@info.usuhs.mil> wrote:
>In article <56soa8$a...@mimas.brunel.ac.uk>,
>Ryan O'Connell <ccu...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>>[1] Except X. Nobody compiles their own X.
>
>BT, DT, under IRIX, SunOS 4.x, and 386bsd 0.1, so there! Phfffft!
>Tried it on an AT&T 3B2 with SysVR3.4 but couldn't get the socket stuff
>working in the week or so I had to play with it :-(
I don't think sockets really worked on 3B2s with sVr3 ... I thought
they got them working in sVr4.[1]
OBTW, is AFRRI on the USUHS campus? Or down with WRAIR and AFIP and
the rest?[2]
[1] Not useful - who uses 3B2s any more? With sVr3?
[2] If this is useful to anyone, I apologize!
--
Joe Yao js...@cais.com - Joseph S. D. Yao
Alun Da Penguin Jones
Further up the screen brian moore (b...@cmc.net) wrote:
>
[...]
> many people get their system into an unusable state by changing root's
> shell to /bin/csh or forgetting the root password, or not knowing how
Something wonderful happened here yesterday. Someone for whom I
installed Linux some time back was tinkering. He changed the default
runlevel to 6 (reboot). I had a deeply worried mail message some time
later!
Cheers,
Alun.
--
/d{def}def/a{add}d/s{sub}d/u{usertime}d % Alun Jones, IBS, UW Aberystwyth
/x 0 d/y 0 d 9 9 scale 35 47 translate/b u d .1 setlinewidth{u b s 6e4 gt
{exit}if/x x 4 a d/v 1 x s d/x y 2 x mul 3 s abs sqrt x 0 lt{neg}if a d/y
v d x y moveto .1 0 rlineto stroke}loop showpage% You may need %!PS-Adobe
Paul S. Sawyer
In article <57ds4l$r...@millenium.texas.net> afc...@millenium.texas.net (Al Castanoli) writes:
>
>Quite a few of the 3B2/600G's, running SVR4 the way AT&T intended it/them
>to be, are still in use, mainly because the lusers aren't allowed anywhere
>near them and they hardly ever fall over. They surely are a lot more
>fault tolerant than the 3B15's [0] we just unplugged last year.
>
Another recovering 3B15 admin! Ours went out the door about a year ago...
It was "worth so much" that it had to be put in the state's surplus
property dungeon.... What memories: Admin classes at Dublin[1]; Starting
out as a 3B5; 4M memory; Crashing at the most insignificant power
fluctuations, until management understood my reverence for UPSs; Huge
upgrade from 160M to 340M disks; Buying TWO network-ready workstations
for the estimated cost to network it[2][3]; Getting estimates for upgrades,
then declining those and buying a complete used unit for upgrades and spare
parts[4]; "Is the system running slow?" "Yes, I'm compiling."
I had considered taking it home to put in the basement to heat the house,
but it would have just annoyed my cats[5].
The above is certified to contain no useful information[7].
[1] Ohio, not the nice green one.
[2] Which other users clamed would not have worked well anyway.
[3] And connecting the 3B15 to the world via UUCP.
[4] Which AT&T at first did not want to support, but....
[5] Not to mention my wife[6].
[6] I asked not to mention her!
[7] If you think it does, then YOU may be certified....
Paul the Interrupt-Driven
--
Paul S. Sawyer Paul....@UNH.edu
UNH Telecommunications and Technical Services Voice: +1 603 862 3262
50 College Road FAX: +1 603 862 4545
Durham, New Hampshire 03824-3523
Brendan
pe...@emily.oit.umass.edu (Peter deFriesse) writes:
>>Now to reiterate. I have never said that Linux is a weenie-os. In fact,
> Maybe not. But I almost got punched out when I pointed out
>to a cow-orker that it is the Mac-OS of UNIXes.
nonono, silly. That would be NeXT
:)
. [1]
[1] (mental note- stop instictively pressing ". <return>" at the end of mail
messages.
Derick Siddoway
Ryan O'Connell (cs9...@brunel.ac.uk) wrote:
: Heh, computers are *far* better at heating rooms than electric fires.
: Especially mine. Power supply is rated at 220W but I'm pretty sure I've gone
: _well_ over that. 3 HDDs, 3 FDDs, Tape drive, CD-ROM drive, 2 network cards
: plus all the usual toys. Of course, most of that stuff doesn't work properly...
By all means leave everything in. Makes your 'puter look much kewler.
But the real question is whether you have to power them on sequentially. If
you just flip one switch for the whole mess, well, big deal.
--
Derick Siddoway IMPACT : Non-privileged primitive users can cause
LAN Analyst the total destruction of your entire invasion fleet
University Hospital and gain unauthorized access to files.
University of Utah -- CERT Advisory CA-96.13
Joe Thompson
So I answer the phone yesterday and it's one of our relatively new lusers.
He's got a Mac which won't connect to us anymore[1]. Well, we went through
the standard settings and it's all OK. I had him upgrade his system[2],
and things went to hell. He put the DNS numbers back in[3], things are
just as before. I reach the end of my knowledge and tell him I'll need him
to bring the machine in if I'm going to be able to help him any further[4].
Of course he wouldn't think of it. Then he asked if he could just bring
"the box part" without the monitor. I, having been burned once by saying
"yes" to that question, insist he bring in the monitor as well.
"But I have to get my e-mail today! I have business I'm trying to do!"
"I'm sorry, but I can't help you unless you bring in your complete system."
Now, most people at this point either 1) suck it up and bring in the
system, 2) let it sit in a corner and rot six months after which they
cancel, or 3) immediately demand their service be canceled, and that they
be refunded an amount equal to the service they haven't been able to use
due to the glitch[5].
This particular luser decides to strike off in a bold new direction. He
calls me 6 times in an hour, reminding me each time that he still can't get
e-mail, and then when our closing time has gone past (but I'm still there
waiting on a pizza to arrive) he *continues to call* every 20 minutes[6].
And after I leave, he leaves two voice-mail messages. And ten minutes
after I walk in the door this morning... yep, you guessed it. He called
every hour till noon, when he apparently decided (gasp!) "I guess you can't
help me unless I bring it in, huh?"
<FX: nuclear detonation on several South Pacific islands, 1906 San
Francisco earthquake, climactic explosions from the action movie of your
choice[7]>
"No, I'm afraid not. When will you be able to bring it by?"
<FX: pin drop>
"Oh, probably next Tuesday."
"That'll be fine."
What's the standard legal definition of phone harassment, and how much can
I sue him for? Legal LARTs are a largely unexplored field at this point...
-- Joe
[1] It was fine for a month and a half.
[2] He had MacTCP, which I'm coming more and more to regard was one of Apple's
more brain-dead products. They used to charge for it, too.
[3] This tends to indicate they were never there to begin with. Open Transport
is very good about saving the network config info.
[4] Standard offer. Most lusers take me up on it.
[5] Which we never do. One man demanded we refund his money or he'd sue
for it.
I told him (more or less in so many words) "Fine. In that case you ceased
to be a customer on the effective date of termination, which means we will
bill you at our standard consulting rate of $60.00 per hour for the time
used since then. What address shall I send the bill to?"[8]
[6] I would have just let the phone ring, but the pizza place I order from goes
through drivers so fast that I get a different one every time. And they
always end up calling for directions.
[7] Mine is _Speed_.
[8] He hung up at that point... but I got his username... <clickety click>
--
Joe Thompson | Cornerstone Networks | Tech support is a fine
j...@cstone.net | Charlottesville VA | art which, once mas-
Technical Support | 804.984.5600 | tered, virtually ensures
Technical Writing | http://www.cstone.net/ | loss of sanity.
Nick Williams
In article <ukk9r7c...@assp01.open.ac.uk>,
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> wrote:
> OK, now's the time I admit my ignorance. I haven't installed any version
>of linux apart from slackware (hey, once was enough!). So, which versions
>have runlevel 6 as xdm?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to LART myself :) -- no, actually,
certain braindead early versions of Root For All^W^W^WSlackware came with
their runlevels setup with 6 going straight into xdm. At least up to version
2.3 I think. They also come preconfigured with the ease-of-[ab]use features
like security holes the size of small star systems.
ObLARTs: What about a big flashgun? I have a Canon Speedlite 540EZ that will
certainly restrict your ability to see anything when fired into your face at
full power. Advantages: no lasting injury, no marks to indicate use, user
may fall down stairs [1]. Disadvantages: no lasting injury, no marks to
indicate use.
Cheers,
Nick.
[1] Having the College computer room on the 3rd (4th to our American
friends) floor does have certain advantages.
Roy Hooper
In article <ukk9r7c...@ASSP01.open.ac.uk>,
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> wrote:
>Recently on uk.comp.os.linux someone suggested that in order to get your
>linux box to boot straight into xdm you should change the runlevel to 6.
>I pointed out that this was a Bad Thing (tm) and that he probably meant
>runlevel 4. I got back a rather terse reply saying that it varied from
>system to system. [1]
<AUTOLART mode=on reason="useful information" rate=fast>
Older versions of Slackware or SLS used BSD init[1], then recently have
started using SysV init[2]. Not sure if Slackware has changed yet, but
initlevel 6 _was_ X before. It most definately isn't under RedHat
2.0+.
</AUTOLART>
OBASR: Why the fuck do people insist on mailbombing us when they know full
well we stop accepting mail at load 25.
[1] rc.what
[2] rcN.d/[SK][0-9]{2}what [3][4]
[3] init.d/what [4]
[4] croslinked footnote (core dumped)[5]
[5] sometimes rc.d/{rcN.d/[SK][0-9]{2}what,init.d/what}
--
Roy Hooper rho...@freenet.carleton.ca
System Administrator, "Mom! I let my mind wander and
National Capital Freenet it didn't come back!" - Bill Waterson
Piers Cawley
In article <57hpl6$f...@thelonious.new.ox.ac.uk>,
ni...@thelonious.new.ox.ac.uk (Nick Williams) writes:
> [1] Having the College computer room on the 3rd (4th to our American
> friends) floor does have certain advantages.
Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
the number of floors above ground level? In buildings with multiple
basements do the lift buttons go -2 -1 1 2 3 4 5 ...? If so why don't
people consider this a bad thing.
Then again, who am I to talk, I have a microwave that thinks that ten
past midnight is 24:10.
--
Piers Cawley
Richard Garnish
ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk (Richard Letts) wrote:
>Peter deFriesse (pe...@emily.oit.umass.edu) wrote:
>) Maybe not. But I almost got punched out when I pointed out
>) to a cow-orker that it is the Mac-OS of UNIXes.
>my pc at work dual-boots something95[0] and Linux. It failed to boot
>linux the otherday so I reformatted the disk[1] and installed
>slakware3.1. imagine my surprise when I restarted X, and got a window
>manager looking not entirely unlike the other thing I run.
>indded it is the MACos of UNIXes
I think you've hit on it.... _Slackware_ is the MacOS of UNIXes. It's
specifically designed for lusers[1] who don't read words of more than
two syllab... sillab... don't read long words.
[1] See comp.os.linux.setup for evidence [2]
[2] "I just installed Slackware 3.1 and it doesn't detect my <insert
strange obscure CDROM here> drive." - "Did you compile support into
the kernel (or at least use the _pre-compiled_ kernel with support for
that drive)?" - "Did I have to?"
Rabies
--
This .sig is not currently accepting connections. Please try again
later.
Matthew Sams
In article <57jrb8$g...@news-feed3.globalnet.co.uk>,
Richard Garnish <rab...@paintbox.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk (Richard Letts) wrote:
[..]
>>manager looking not entirely unlike the other thing I run.
>>indded it is the MACos of UNIXes
>I think you've hit on it.... _Slackware_ is the MacOS of UNIXes. It's
>specifically designed for lusers[1] who don't read words of more than
>two syllab... sillab... don't read long words.
I still enjoy the comment in the install notes for the hp300 port of netbsd
0.9[1]: "must have semblance of clue to install" or something along those
lines. Although I do remember humiliating[2] myself at least once during the
install process though not publicly.
I had my first run-in with PC hardware the other day since I unpacked my
home 286 seven years ago. Found an orphaned[3] 386 and am installing Linux
on it. All I have to say is: "stupid pc hardware, at least it's not
plug-n-flail".
[1] or was that 1.0?
[2] no, I didn't mess my pants.
[3] I will not pay money for home computers. If I can't scam it for free
or nearly free, then I won't take it. This has many people confused
who seem to enjoy spending gobs of money for a machine they use a few
hours each day.
-Matthew
[i've been email spammed and usenet spammed. I've now been pager spammed.
some tool paged all pagers with the 724 prefix with a sex number in France.]
Daniel Barlow
In article <ukk9r7c...@ASSP01.open.ac.uk>,
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> wrote:
>Recently on uk.comp.os.linux someone suggested that in order to get your
>linux box to boot straight into xdm you should change the runlevel to 6.
>I pointed out that this was a Bad Thing (tm) and that he probably meant
>runlevel 4. I got back a rather terse reply saying that it varied from
>system to system. [1]
Er, yes, the terse followup was me (but I didn't and wouldn't have posted
the original advice --- I tend not to answer questions that I remember
ever having been in the Linux FAQ). It's nothing personal, it's just
the way I write when I want to get the article sent out before my
incoming suck feed finishes.
> OK, now's the time I admit my ignorance. I haven't installed any version
>of linux apart from slackware (hey, once was enough!). So, which versions
>have runlevel 6 as xdm?
Anything based on sysvinit 2.4 or (presumably) earlier. That includes
old versions of Slackware, MCC 0.9 (I think --- or did it have poeigl?)
and probably some other stuff too. The transition from sysvinit 2.4
to 2.5 was fun for the people who tried it without paying attention ;-)
Well anyway, it made for a more interesting thread than "Where's my
copy of Linux World?"...
-dan
Josh Tiefenbach
>ObLARTs: What about a big flashgun? I have a Canon Speedlite 540EZ that will
Sure. Non fatal. So long as the luser isnt trying to land a 767 or something
at the time[1].
Tho, if you get the frequency of the flashing right, you can get some of 'em
to go into grand-mal seizures.
josh
[1] ObTomClancy.
--
Josh Tiefenbach | "I am a yapping dog with mean little teeth.
President, | I am as often as wrong as you, as often as
Society for Computing | co-opted as you, as often sophomoric as you.
and Information Science. | But I maintain. As do you."
University of Guelph | -- Harlan Ellison
mailto:jo...@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca Web: http://eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca/~josh
Shalom Septimus
In article <57jn8n$p...@ns2.aladdin.net>,
Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
>
>Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
>the number of floors above ground level?
Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
Except in the UB Natural Sciences Facility, where it's called "two".
("One" is the basement... don't ask...)
>In buildings with multiple
>basements do the lift buttons go -2 -1 1 2 3 4 5 ...? If so why don't
>people consider this a bad thing.
This does happen, in Israel. I was visiting a friend in Har Nof, a hilly
suburb of Jerusalem. He lives on the seventh floor, but you need to push
"3" in the lift... why? Because the building is situated at the bottom
of a cliff; the access road (and the front door) is at the top of the
cliff. Thus, when you enter the lift, you see buttons reading Lobby,
1 2 3 4 5 -1 -2 -3 -4. No kidding.
Here, though, you usually have B and SB for basement and sub-basement.
>Then again, who am I to talk, I have a microwave that thinks that ten
>past midnight is 24:10.
Isn't it?
--
||J.Alan Septimus||You can't have everything...||sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu
|| KA2GYP ||...where would you put it? ||NYS Pharmacy Intern # 071612
||===============||==========Stephen Wright====||NYC Locksmith License 824141
Piers Cawley
In article <57lu74$h...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>,
sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shalom Septimus) writes:
> In article <57jn8n$p...@ns2.aladdin.net>,
> Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
>>
>>Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
>>the number of floors above ground level?
> ^^^^^
> Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
Speaking as a mathematician and an occasional programmer, numbers
start at zero.
>>Then again, who am I to talk, I have a microwave that thinks that
>>ten past midnight is 24:10.
>
> Isn't it?
No. (I would tell you what it is, but then I'd have to LART myself.)
--
Piers Cawley
Richard Garnish
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> wrote:
>Recently on uk.comp.os.linux someone suggested that in order to get your
>linux box to boot straight into xdm you should change the runlevel to 6.
>I pointed out that this was a Bad Thing (tm) and that he probably meant
>runlevel 4. I got back a rather terse reply saying that it varied from
>system to system. [1]
> OK, now's the time I admit my ignorance. I haven't installed any version
>of linux apart from slackware (hey, once was enough!). So, which versions
>have runlevel 6 as xdm?
Slackware *spit* went over to using runlevel 4 for xdm from 3.0
onwards. I stopped using slackware at about 2.something, because the
installation size was growing exponentially[1]
Rabies
[1] I believe that a "reasonable installation" went from about 80MB in
Slackware 2.2 to 150MB+ in 3.0. Oh, and 3.1 used fvwm95[2] as its
default window manager :)
[2] We Love Bill.
Ingvar the Grey
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> writes:
[SNIPE]
>Recently on uk.comp.os.linux someone suggested that in order to get your
>linux box to boot straight into xdm you should change the runlevel to 6.
>I pointed out that this was a Bad Thing (tm) and that he probably meant
>runlevel 4. I got back a rather terse reply saying that it varied from
>system to system. [1]
> OK, now's the time I admit my ignorance. I haven't installed any version
>of linux apart from slackware (hey, once was enough!). So, which versions
>have runlevel 6 as xdm?
Slackware did, waaaay back. Hmm... Talking of run levels... Maybe I
should install SysV-init with gazillions of files? Might, if nothing
else, be quite fun. ;)
//Ingvar (no candle, no star)
Sean Berry
In <57jrb8$g...@news-feed3.globalnet.co.uk> rab...@paintbox.dircon.co.uk (Richard Garnish) writes:
>ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk (Richard Letts) wrote:
>[2] "I just installed Slackware 3.1 and it doesn't detect my <insert
>strange obscure CDROM here> drive." - "Did you compile support into
>the kernel (or at least use the _pre-compiled_ kernel with support for
>that drive)?" - "Did I have to?"
This dates back to when the drivers were actually experimental, (back when
we used floppies ftp'd, and were just ecstatic to be running something other
than Windows. Of course, the patches were coming out faster than we could
recompile. (Jon on his 8M 386/25 (w/fp) and me with my 4M 386/16 w/fp)
I was much happier when I shelled out many many many dollars for my brand
spanking new Taiwan Special 486/33 8M/340M. Then we could compile kernels
for both our machines in the time the patches came out, but about then they
were talking 1.0 pretty hard. :)
(Linux -always- ran much nicer on generic computers than brand name)
spb, recovered from linux, porting over the nice features to BSD.
--
Sean Berry is an ISTJ cellist who works in netbsd. (must have more toys)
I imagine someone is likely to misinterpret
my opinions as those of my various employers. This is not the case.
Richard Letts
Shalom Septimus (sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
: >
: >Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
: >the number of floors above ground level?
: ^^^^^
: Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
: Except in the UB Natural Sciences Facility, where it's called "two".
: ("One" is the basement... don't ask...)
Odd buildings where I work:
- Halls of residence -- floor 4
- Maxwell -- floor 2
- Brindley -- floor 7
RjL
Anthony DeBoer
Pete Ehlke <p...@tezcat.com> wrote:
>Yup. In case anyone still has any illusions about slackware, it
>now loads fvwm95 as the default window manager. As someone else
>said recently, Oi! Volkerding! LART!!!
Nah, I lost faith in Slackware 'way back when the supplied mailer switched
from Smail3 to /usr/lib/sendcertadvisories. Oi! Volkerding! LART!!!
--
Anthony DeBoer <a...@geac.com> #include <std.disclaimer>
Chuck McKenzie
Richard Garnish <rab...@paintbox.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
: I think you've hit on it.... _Slackware_ is the MacOS of UNIXes. It's
: specifically designed for lusers[1] who don't read words of more than
: two syllab... sillab... don't read long words.
Very close, but not quite.
About a year ago, I started to do some consulting for an area ISP. Their
primary machine's OS? Caldera Network Desktop. Preview 1[1].
Remember though, there are no good OSes.
[1](You know, the one that said "Looks pretty - don't try to run it.")[2]
[2]Oh hey...all the users have "Caldera Network Desktop User" as their
gecos...[3][4]
[3]...and wow, /etc is writable by group 'users'.
[4]Not useful information. Nice try though.
[5]Did I miss one somewhere?
--
Chuck McKenzie kil...@upl.cs.wisc.edu
http://www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~kilroy/ char...@cs.wisc.edu
Dynamic linking error: Your mistake is now everywhere.
Darrell Fuhriman
sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shalom Septimus) writes:
> Except in the UB Natural Sciences Facility, where it's called "two".
> ("One" is the basement... don't ask...)
Portland State University has two same height buildings,
connected by a sky bridge on the top floor. Walking from the
fourth floor in one puts you on the third floor in the other.
This confused the hell out of me when I ran into it.. :)
Darrell Fuhriman
Ryan O'Connell
ad...@freenet5.carleton.ca (Roy Hooper) wrote:
| Older versions of Slackware or SLS used BSD init[1], then recently have
| started using SysV init[2]. Not sure if Slackware has changed yet, but
| initlevel 6 _was_ X before. It most definately isn't under RedHat
| 2.0+.
Init level changes are irritating.
# init 5
"Eh? Oh, *&^%$#@!"
| [1] rc.what
| [2] rcN.d/[SK][0-9]{2}what
Not always, my UsefulInit[1] uses /etc/rc.d/rc.[SKM] What confuses me is why
'rescue disk' maintainers insist on wasing precious space with init and
gettys. I just link /sbin/init to /bin/sh...[2]
[1] SysVinit to the uninitiated
[2] I don't use a serial console.
--
* Ryan O'Connell *** ry...@bcs.org.uk ** Finger: cs9...@dawes.brunel.ac.uk *
* http://www.brunel.ac.uk/~cs95rro/ ** PGP 15BA31D1E33A3E00BED4EA241F1183B4 *
***** Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is [INTJ]*
***** adequately explained by stupidity. *******
Stefan Froehlich
Peter Benie (pet...@chiark.greenend.org.uk) wrote:
> The Engineering Department here came up with a scheme that confuses
> everybody: the floors are labelled 'Basement' 'Ground' 0 1 2 ...
Well, some older houses in Vienna have a _really_ interesting
numbering scheme [1]. We start at something, which could roughly
be translated into basement. Then there is a level called 'upper-basement',
the next floor is called 'Mezzanin' [2]. If the original owner was very
creative, there might be some other levels, too. To get to the 1st floor,
you have to climb up to 3 levels at some places[3].
Bye,
Stefan
[1] Actually, you can't call it _numbering_ as it uses written words as well.
[2] Which is not even ogirinally German, so I am afraid I can't translate it.
[3] The reason for this is that the 1st floor was considered the very best
address some times ago. Wiser man prefered to live in rooms with better
view, so they moved up the 1st level as high as they could...
Joe Zeff
sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shalom Septimus) wrote:
>In article <57jn8n$p...@ns2.aladdin.net>,
>Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
>>
>>Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
>>the number of floors above ground level?
> ^^^^^
>Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
>Except in the UB Natural Sciences Facility, where it's called "two".
>("One" is the basement... don't ask...)
UCLA has some interesting floor numbering. At one place, you can exit
a building at ground level on the third floor, cross a flat plaza and
enter a new building on its fifth floor.[1] This same building has
ground exits on floors three and two, but not one. Then again,
there's the History building (I think) that has no ground floor. Just
an open space with some pillars on one side and an elevator on the
other. The floor numbering starts with two, and you can walk right
under it *outside*.
[1]Funny what happens when you build on hilly ground, isn't it?
------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Zeff Earthlink Network
jo...@earthlink.net Senior Tech Support
(800) 395-8410 Extension 2610
"The only problem with troubleshooting is that
sometimes trouble shoots back."
------------------------------------------------------------
Chris McCraw
In a previous article, Peter Benie <pet...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Microwaves are supposed to display 88:88 (flashing).
not if you have a stable microwave. mine has yet to crash, and has a
100 day uptime...
cant say that for the coke machine downstairs though...it *does* crash
with an 8888 flashing. confused the fuck out of me one day after i played
the battle of the LED interpretations game with the little decoder book
you get...btw, kudos to IBM for cycling the codes immediately before a
crash pre-console-init too fast for me to follow the first 4 or 5 times.
in service mode. no, i didnt have anything better to do that afternoon
than bounce the machine repeatedly. im also not bitter about it. i also
dont believe in the excessive use of sarcasm in usenet posts. i also....
at any rate, after running into the crashed coke machine that day, i'm
pretty convinced IBM could advance a pretty plausible case in a look-and-
feel lawsuit against coke...same little round reset buttons...er, those
are drink-dispensing buttons. owell.
perhaps, with a little encouragement, i could be persuaded to post the
saga of that day...truly an episode which drove me to a night of heavy
recovery. led my counterparts in other departments[1] into spasms of
laughter....
--
[0] wow, i really didnt have anything to add after the fact.
Ken Bolingbroke
Ian Dobbie (i...@muscle.rai.kcl.ac.uk) wrote:
: On a vaugely related note how long a time period is there bewteen 1.5 years
: BC and 1.5 years AD? A turely massive a perverse where do you start
: counting from problem.
This couldn't be useful information--it happened 2000 years ago, so just
to satisfy my perverse curiosity, what is it? I would say 2 years,
because 1.5 BC is 1.5 years before Christ was born, and AFAIK, the year
Christ was born is AD 1, making AD 1.5 a mere half a year after Christ's
birth.
Ken Bolingbroke
k...@bolingbroke.com
Matthe...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
pdca...@aladdin.net writes:
>Speaking as a mathematician and an occasional programmer, numbers
>start at zero.
where I do most of my paying work at the moment is the third floor,
the bilingual signs on the stairwells notwithstanding. Funny thing,
the Pacific Forestry Centre is the *only* building I've been in which
follows the drive-on-the-left numbering convention, and in several
months I still haven't figured out whether that's because it's the
Federal Government, or just another Architectural Concept like the
thermostat in the machine room which can only be adjusted by the
BMaintenancePeopleFH, and automatically switches from 22 on weekdays to
28 on weekends. Thankfully I don't have to maintain the robotic tape
store which operates in that room.
Even the Jargon File defines "zeroth" as "first".
Thomas Womack
Josh Tiefenbach (jo...@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca) wrote:
: >ObLARTs: What about a big flashgun? I have a Canon Speedlite 540EZ that will
: Sure. Non fatal. So long as the luser isnt trying to land a 767 or something
: at the time[1].
: Tho, if you get the frequency of the flashing right, you can get some of 'em
: to go into grand-mal seizures.
: josh
: [1] ObTomClancy.
How hard would it be to build a Tom Clancy epilepsy-inducing flashlight?
The book was fairly unclear as to what exactly was involved; 'bloody
enormous light'[1], 'accurate parabolic reflector'[2], and 'too many NiCad
batteries to easily imagine'[3] come to mind.
ObUselessInformation : Cardinal of the Kremlin is *not* the right book to
take to read in the plane on a school trip to Moscow. The customs man was
most disconcerted. Debt of Honour would be worse, I suppose; lots of plane
crashes in that one.
[1] To be stolen from the OHP supplies
[2] Ask your Friendly Neighbourhood Astronomer
[3] Your boss doesn't need the spare laptop batteries, does he?
: --
: Josh Tiefenbach | "I am a yapping dog with mean little teeth.
: President, | I am as often as wrong as you, as often as
: Society for Computing | co-opted as you, as often sophomoric as you.
: and Information Science. | But I maintain. As do you."
: University of Guelph | -- Harlan Ellison
: mailto:jo...@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca Web: http://eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca/~josh
--
Tom
Dort, wo man Buecher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen
(Heinrich Heine)
Allan McMillin
In article <spberry....@endeavor.ansci.iastate.edu>,
spb...@iastate.edu says...
>
>(Linux -always- ran much nicer on generic computers than brand name)
>
Personal opinion I think linux will always run better on generic computers.
Because the generic computer makers have to stick the standards more
closely. Inorder to redce their tech. support costs and leave a better
impession on their customers.
Allan McMillin
mcmi...@cuug.ab.ca
Stefan Froehlich
Peter Benie (pet...@chiark.greenend.org.uk) wrote:
> The Engineering Department here came up with a scheme that confuses
> everybody: the floors are labelled 'Basement' 'Ground' 0 1 2 ...
Well, some older houses in Vienna have a _really_ interesting
numbering scheme [1]. We start at something, which could roughly
be translated into basement. Then there is a level called 'upper-basement',
the next floor is called 'Mezzanin' [2]. If the original owner was very
creative, there might be some other levels, too. To get to the 1st floor,
you have to climb up to 3 levels at some places[3].
Another one:
at the place where I am working, we have two buildings connected to
each other [5]. When I enter the building in the morning at the ground
floor (lets call it 0th floor) and walk through a corridor, I get to my
room, which is on the 1st floor. My boss' room is on the 3rd floor, so
I have to go upwards two levels. If I decide to go _up_ 3 more steps, I
will find myself in the _2nd_ floor (actually this is the older part of
the building with higher rooms). If I walk upwards two levels there (so I
am at the 4th floor), then go back to the modern part of the building
(6th floor) and go down three levels, I am at my boss' room again (3rd floor).
Perhaps you can guess, how confused our students are, when they are
looking for a certain room.
Bye,
Stefan
[1] Actually, you can't call it _numbering_ as it uses written words as well.
[2] Which is not even ogirinally German, so I am afraid I can't translate it.
[3] The reason for this is that the 1st floor was considered the very best
address some times ago. Wiser man prefered to live in rooms with better
view, so they moved up the 1st level as high as they could...
[4] Footnote separator.
[5] To a visitor they appear as a single building, but one has been built
about 20 years before the other.
Benjamin Hutchings
In article <57mifl$l...@ns2.aladdin.net>,
Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
>In article <57lu74$h...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>,
> sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shalom Septimus) writes:
>> Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
>>>the number of floors above ground level?
>> ^^^^^
>> Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
>
>start at zero.
Only natural numbers. And then, only if you're not in Birmingham or
certain other places with heretical universities.
--
Ben Hutchings,|finger m95...@booth42.ecs.ox.ac.uk|mail benjamin.hutchings@
compsci&mathmo|lynx http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0223|worcester.oxford.ac.uk
Among economists, the real world is often a special case. - Horngren
Benjamin Hutchings
In article <sa420db...@barbie.rai.kcl.ac.uk>,
Ian Dobbie <i...@muscle.rai.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <57mifl$l...@ns2.aladdin.net>
> >>>Why do Americans have this strange problem when it comes to counting
> >>>the number of floors above ground level?
> >> ^^^^^
> >> Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
> >
> >Speaking as a mathematician and an occasional programmer, numbers
> >start at zero.
>
>BC and 1.5 years AD? A turely massive a perverse where do you start
>counting from problem.
Years BC and AD are really ordinals. Fractional year numbers are not
meaningful, although for some purposes it may be useful to pretend that
they are. Of course, as you point out, this breaks down at the borderline.
Mats Andtbacka
Chris McCraw, in <57vq6h$i...@dot.cs.utexas.edu>:
>In a previous article, Peter Benie <pet...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>Microwaves are supposed to display 88:88 (flashing).
>not if you have a stable microwave. mine has yet to crash, and has a
>100 day uptime...
more stable than my GSM cellular, easily. granted, it's what i suppose
would have to be called an early stepping level of its model, but
there have been times when even the power-off button produced no
response whatsoever. let's not even start on the troubles it's got
keeping a connection up... *sigh*
>recovery. led my counterparts in other departments[1] into spasms of
footnote not found. (R)eboot usenet [(I)mmediately/right (A)way] ?
>--
>[0] wow, i really didnt have anything to add after the fact.
--
"...Everybody got this broken feeling
like their father or their dog just died..."
- Leonard Cohen
Muralynd
On 2 Dec 1996 17:56:51 GMT, k...@home.bolingbroke.com (Ken Bolingbroke)
wrote:
>Ian Dobbie (i...@muscle.rai.kcl.ac.uk) wrote:
>
>: On a vaugely related note how long a time period is there bewteen 1.5 years
>: BC and 1.5 years AD? A turely massive a perverse where do you start
>: counting from problem.
>
>to satisfy my perverse curiosity, what is it? I would say 2 years,
>because 1.5 BC is 1.5 years before Christ was born, and AFAIK, the year
>Christ was born is AD 1, making AD 1.5 a mere half a year after Christ's
>birth.
Christians say Christ was 33 when he died, making the correct[1]
answer;
35 years
[1] This is NOT useful[2] infomation
[2] I just got my AOA[3] this weekend :)
[3] It's[5] an SCA thing[4]
[4] see [1]
[5] recursive[2] too
Justin Dossey
Muralynd wrote:
> >: On a vaugely related note how long a time period is there bewteen 1.5 years
> >: BC and 1.5 years AD? A turely massive a perverse where do you start
> >: counting from problem.
> Christians say Christ was 33 when he died, making the correct[1]
> answer;
>
> 35 years
umm, wrong. A.D. != After [christ's] Death. == Anno Domini, latin for
"in the year of our lord."
If A.D. started after christ's death, there would be 3 time periods, the
unnamed one being during the life of christ.
I'm doing my best not to flame
--
:Justin Dossey:
:dos...@ou.edu:
Jonathan Guthrie
Allan McMillin <mcmi...@cuug.ab.ca> wrote:
: In article <spberry....@endeavor.ansci.iastate.edu>,
: spb...@iastate.edu says...
I have noticed that just about EVERYTHING works better on "no-name"
computers than they do on brand-name equipment. They are also usually
cheaper. However, the reason they work better has nothing to do with
the store you purchase from. Here in Houston, there are only three (or
so---I don't sell computers, I just run them) wholesalers and every
hole-in-the-wall clone shop sells stuff bought from one of those three
wholesalers. A lot of the time (or so I've been told) the wholesaler
does everything but stick the little logo on the front of the box.
Because the wholesaler doesn't have the direct sales costs and because he
buys in quantities at least as large as the big PC manufacturers without
anything like their overhead those wholesalers sell stuff at a fraction
of the price of those major manufacturers. Since they can do that (and
since they have absolutely no manufacturing capability other than the
tinkertoy-type) there is a strong incentive to sell stuff that is as
generic as possible. Those major manufacturers generally build wierdness
into their computers in a (mostly futile) attempt to compete with the
little guys, price-wise, by reducing their manufacturing costs.
Of course, I have a tax ID number so I can shop where the clone shops
shop.
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Information Broker Systems +713-840-7812 http://www.brokersys.com/
1200 Post Oak Blvd, Houston, TX 77056, USA
We sell Internet access and commercial Web space. We also are general
network consultants in the greater Houston area.
Shalom Septimus
In article <581a0q$3...@news.tuwien.ac.at>,
Stefan Froehlich <sfro...@et.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>at the place where I am working, we have two buildings connected to
>each other [5]. When I enter the building in the morning at the ground
>floor (lets call it 0th floor) and walk through a corridor, I get to my
>room, which is on the 1st floor. My boss' room is on the 3rd floor, so
>I have to go upwards two levels. If I decide to go _up_ 3 more steps, I
>will find myself in the _2nd_ floor (actually this is the older part of
>the building with higher rooms). If I walk upwards two levels there (so I
>am at the 4th floor), then go back to the modern part of the building
>(6th floor) and go down three levels, I am at my boss' room again (3rd floor).
>Perhaps you can guess, how confused our students are, when they are
>looking for a certain room.
The library at Brooklyn College is in a similar situation. It was originally
built back in the '30's as La Guardia Hall, with two sections: a public area,
including a reading room on the second floor with a high ceiling, and a
stack area with low ceilings. Then in the '60's they tacked on the Gideonse
Library to the back of La Guardia. (The result is an architechtural
monstrosity, but they really needed the room; the administration wanted to
increase greatly the number of books on the open shelves, and there just
wasn't enough space.)
The first floors of all three sections are in common. The public area of
the old building has three floors, the stacks have eight "tiers", and the
new section has four floors. To get to the music department, which is on
the top floor of the old building (not counting the clock tower :), you
take the elevator in the new building to the 4th floor, walk through
Tier 7 of the stacks, and wind up on the 3d floor of the old building!
bmb...@acsu.buffalo.edu
Darrell Fuhriman <dar...@grumblesmurf.net> writes:
>
> sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shalom Septimus) writes:
>
> > Except in the UB Natural Sciences Facility, where it's called "two".
> > ("One" is the basement... don't ask...)
>
> Portland State University has two same height buildings,
> connected by a sky bridge on the top floor. Walking from the
> fourth floor in one puts you on the third floor in the other.
> This confused the hell out of me when I ran into it.. :)
IMHO, it isn't true that the UB Natural Sciences & Mathematics
building's ground floor is called "two", but it really depends on
which direction you are looking at the building from (build on a
hill).
However, if you are on floor 2 of the NSM building, and head east, you
will enter Talbert Hall (floor 2), and then continue, you will exit
next to Capen Hall (floor 1). Please note that there is no way, short
of going outside or up or down stairs, to go from Talbert 2nd floor to
Capen 1st, although this is the -only- floor in Talbert -not-
connected to Capen. Talbert 1st is connected to Capen Ground, and
Talbert 3rd is connected to Capen 2nd. Similarly, Norton Ground and
Norton 2nd are connected to Capen, but Norton 1st is not.
There is also a skyway connecting Bell 3rd floor with Furnace 2nd
floor, although both buildings are build on the same flat stretch
(across a road from each other), and have ground floors labeled "1st".
Of course, this is a campus where they decided to build the academic
spine of the campus along a ridge between two -large- flat areas, and
to build skyways instead of underground tunnels to connect all the
buildings. One of the "skyways" (connecting Knox hall and the Student
Union) is actually about 3-feet underground, so you can see how much
snow there is on the ground by looking out the window.
>
> Darrell Fuhriman
>
--
Buddha Buck bmb...@acsu.buffalo.edu
"Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our
liberty depends upon the chaos and cacaphony of the unfettered speech
the First Amendment protects." -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice
Joel Maslak
Chris McCraw (fo...@cs.utexas.edu) wrote:
: In a previous article, Peter Benie <pet...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
: >Microwaves are supposed to display 88:88 (flashing).
: not if you have a stable microwave. mine has yet to crash, and has a
: 100 day uptime...
: with an 8888 flashing. confused the fuck out of me one day after i played
Ah, crashing appliances..
Over Thanksgiving, the oven decided to crash. It was blinking some error
code, which, when consulted, the manual said it was the code to "call
service..." Unfortunately, being Thanksgiving, with the turkey in the oven,
this wasn't a real possibility.
The problem was solved the way we fix many problems. Power cycling. Go
to breaker, flip breaker, flip back.
HELP!!!! I can't get away from these things!
AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! THEY'VE FOUND ME!!!
RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!
Sorry, I'm better now.
Joel Maslak
--
Why does the computer seem to laugh when it says,
"You have: 52 new voice mail messages?"
Lars Balker Rasmussen
jma...@pobox.com (Joel Maslak) writes:
> Over Thanksgiving, the oven decided to crash. It was blinking some error
> code, which, when consulted, the manual said it was the code to "call
> service..." Unfortunately, being Thanksgiving, with the turkey in the oven,
> this wasn't a real possibility.
Oooh, your oven has _documented_ error codes?
Our new microwave oven stopped working a couple of months ago. It just
didn't heat. It said D on the display; unlike how to open the oven,
this was not documented.
It was hastily repaired, as popcorn seems to be one of the major
foodgroups. Then a few weeks later, the D reappeared, but the microwave
seemed to work. For a couple of days. Then the kitchen started
smelling like a worn-out power supply...
Yes, I have live-in lusers.
--
Lars Balker Rasmussen <URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>
Dan Holdsworth
In article <57vfi6$9...@bolivia.earthlink.net>, jo...@earthlink.net (Joe
Zeff) writes:
:UCLA has some interesting floor numbering. At one place, you can exit
:a building at ground level on the third floor, cross a flat plaza and
:enter a new building on its fifth floor.[1] This same building has
:ground exits on floors three and two, but not one.
Leeds Uni has a similar problem. The main campus was built on a hill, and
during the 1960's, a major building pahse took place, when the ground floor
near the bottom of the hill was called level one.
Entering at ground level at the top entrance, you enter at level 10. The main
library entrance below you, also at (lower) ground level is level 9.
Going on, you encounter Europe's longest corridoor. I think it'd look
better if the builders hadn't made a mess of lining up the two main buildings
that compose the thing, and had to put a bend in the middle...
The you can cross an elevated walkway into a lecture theatre block, a
building
of the most appallingly stunning ugliness. This is compounded by a
Henry
Moore statue [1]
The "daft floor numbering" takes a turn for the worse in the lecture theatre
block, where the floor numbers don't match, and there is only a very loose
relationship between height above ground and lecture theatre number.
The only
consolation is that the whole place was designed with due regard for
safety
regulations, and where you could stick them, hence from the top floor
you
can look down 60 metres of free air to the concrete below, with only a
low
guardrail between you and a damn good view...
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java
that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a
warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Dan Holdsworth, dr...@aber.ac.uk **SPAMMERS WILL BE FILTERED**
[1] A member of the climbing club once got pissed, and climbed up to place a
pair of underpants on the statue's head. He then got scared, froze in
place and had to be rescued next morning.[2]
[2] The fireman must have had a sense of humour, since he left the rather
tatty underpants in place, where they remained for months.
Lars Balker Rasmussen
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> writes:
> Of course, the truely shrewd celebrate both just to be sure ;-)
Which is why we're all supposed to shut up 'til Jan 1st 2000, so the
great party _won't_ be postponed.
Joe Zeff
Jonathan Guthrie <jgut...@brokersys.com> wrote:
>Since they can do that (and
>since they have absolutely no manufacturing capability other than the
>tinkertoy-type) there is a strong incentive to sell stuff that is as
>generic as possible.
This can cause problems too. Have you ever tried to get a no-name
modem to work if the generic strings aren't adaquate? Really makes
you want to LART the wholesaler!
>Those major manufacturers generally build wierdness
>into their computers in a (mostly futile) attempt to compete with the
>little guys, price-wise, by reducing their manufacturing costs.
Like Compaq? Big name, major advertisor and they still haven't
learned how to put a reset switch on their boxex?
Joel Maslak
Matthe...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
: BMaintenancePeopleFH, and automatically switches from 22 on weekdays to
: 28 on weekends. Thankfully I don't have to maintain the robotic tape
: store which operates in that room.
Don't the machines get cold [1]?
Joel Maslak
[1] 22/28 degrees F = -5.56/-2.22 degrees C
Jonathan Guthrie
Joe Zeff <jo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: >Since they can do that (and
: >since they have absolutely no manufacturing capability other than the
: >tinkertoy-type) there is a strong incentive to sell stuff that is as
: >generic as possible.
: This can cause problems too. Have you ever tried to get a no-name
: modem to work if the generic strings aren't adaquate? Really makes
: you want to LART the wholesaler!
Modems are the bane of my existence. I know that the saying goes that all
OSes suck, but I am strongly of the opinions that all modems suck even more
than all OSes suck.
Having said that, I own (and USE!) a no-name modem from the house. (It's
actually a "Magnum" whatever the heck that is. You sure can buy some weird
stuff at The Micro Center and I've been doing it for at least twelve years
now.) I've gotten good at setting them up. I still don't like them.
: >Those major manufacturers generally build wierdness
: >into their computers in a (mostly futile) attempt to compete with the
: >little guys, price-wise, by reducing their manufacturing costs.
: Like Compaq? Big name, major advertisor and they still haven't
: learned how to put a reset switch on their boxex?
YES!
I realize that, as a Houston resident, I am supposed to worship at the altar
of Compaq (and I did try to get a job out there, programming their modems,
oddly enough) and it is true that my new baby daughter (Rhiannon Rose
Guthrie, born November 11, 1996 8:52 AM, 7 lbs 14oz, 19.5 inches) was born
in the hospital (Tomball regional) closest to Compaq (I live out that way)
but they build some of the most esoteric crap I've ever had the displeasure
to have to do tech support on. For some reason, the version of Windows 3.11
they created didn't like the Installation program I used for my Internet
installation disks.
Now they've got a store selling refurbished equipment in town (and some of
it even works) so the old crap I had to deal with last year just keeps coming
back and back and back.
I defy anybody to find useful information in this message.
Nick Leverton
In article <57lu74$h...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>
sept...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shalom Septimus) writes:
>In article <57jn8n$p...@ns2.aladdin.net>,
>Piers Cawley <pdca...@aladdin.net> wrote:
>>
>>the number of floors above ground level?
> ^^^^^
>Ah, but you see, here the ground level _is_ numbered "one".
Would that be the ground level at the front of the building or the back ?
N, who was in Parker Hall just this summer.
Anyway, the French also have this "ground=1, basement=0" thing, though
they're gradually changing to "ground=RC[1], basement=-1". But it
causes wonderful confusion since both standards are in use in parallel.
I visited a building which went 4,3,2,RC - no first at all ...
>>Then again, who am I to talk, I have a microwave that thinks that ten
>>past midnight is 24:10.
My watch informed me on Saturday that it was the 33rd of November.
N, again.
[1] Rez Chaussee
Don Read
>
>Ah, crashing appliances..
>
>Over Thanksgiving, the oven decided to crash. It was blinking some error
>code, which, when consulted, the manual said it was the code to "call
>service..." Unfortunately, being Thanksgiving, with the turkey in the oven,
>this wasn't a real possibility.
I wonder if the VCR will display:
"panic 0x00FFFF13: Do you want a system dump [Y/N]"
And you can't eject Schindler's List ?
--
Don Read sy...@calcasieu.com
EDP Manager dr...@texas.net
Calcasieu Lumber Co. Austin TX
---- "Ya jus' mash that butt'n, righ' jere" ---
Ry Jones
Nick Leverton (lev...@warren.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Anyway, the French also have this "ground=1, basement=0" thing, though
: they're gradually changing to "ground=RC[1], basement=-1". But it
: causes wonderful confusion since both standards are in use in parallel.
: I visited a building which went 4,3,2,RC - no first at all ...
At the BF Goodrich plant where I worked, we had an 8 "story" process
tower that was about 130 feet tall. Each "story" was really a bi- or
tri-level work area. The placement of the floors, and the elevator
stops, was dictated by the height of the equipment installed at that
stage of the process. So first floor was 30 feet tall because the
blower was 30 feet tall, but the second floor was 10 feet tall because
the heater was 10 feet tall. And so on.
The elevator had stops like "(1) (1 1/3) (2) (2 1/2) (3) (4) (4 1/4)"
on up to 8 (and 8 1/2, I recall). You had to be on your toes, because
the fractional floor might be on the front or the back of the
elevator. And depending on the way the stairs were aligned and the
ramps placed, it was easier to get off at 4.5 and walk up a short ramp
then to actually get off at 5 where you needed to be, because you'd
have to go down a set of stairs.
It drove us nuts. I hope they renumbered it.
When will Seattle Area BOFH BOF be going on?
--
rjo...@halcyon.com
http://www.wicker.com/
Michael Moller
In article <ukohga5...@assp01.open.ac.uk>,
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> wrote:
>Ian Dobbie <i...@muscle.rai.kcl.ac.uk> writes:
><lots of boring shit about BC and AD years that boils down to:>
>>
>> No year Zero[3]
>
>Of course, this means that the next millenium will start on 1st January 2001.
>My supervisor regularly runs 'round telling people that they'll be wrong to
>celebrate the new millenium on 1/1/2000 and how he'll be throwing a big
>party on 1/1/2001.
> Of course, the truely shrewd celebrate both just to be sure ;-)
Then there's the option of remaining innebriated for the entire period
1/1/2000 - 1/1/2001. One evening, some time back, during that period
when conversation tends towards to the more esoteric, a drinking buddy
and I actually calculated what such an undertaking would cost...
l8r
mike
Alun Da Penguin Jones
Further up the screen Gary Barnes (g...@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
>
> and the Tower has floors "A","B","C","F","G","H","J","K"
> and "L". Where Floor "I" has got to is anybody's guess.
We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you.
Cheers,
Alun.
[1] A wonderful example of topic drift...
--
/d{def}def/a{add}d/s{sub}d/u{usertime}d % Alun Jones, IBS, UW Aberystwyth
/x 0 d/y 0 d 9 9 scale 35 47 translate/b u d .1 setlinewidth{u b s 6e4 gt
{exit}if/x x 4 a d/v 1 x s d/x y 2 x mul 3 s abs sqrt x 0 lt{neg}if a d/y
v d x y moveto .1 0 rlineto stroke}loop showpage% You may need %!PS-Adobe
Paul S. Sawyer
In article <ukohga5...@ASSP01.open.ac.uk> Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> writes:
>
>Of course, this means that the next millenium will start on 1st January 2001.
>My supervisor regularly runs 'round telling people that they'll be wrong to
>celebrate the new millenium on 1/1/2000 and how he'll be throwing a big
>party on 1/1/2001.
>
> Of course, the truely shrewd celebrate both just to be sure ;-)
Though the 2001ers may be technically correct[1], that would be like
riding in a car and telling your kids "watch the odometer... it's
about to turn to 60001!"
[1] And we all know how much good being "technically correct" does us....
--
Paul S. Sawyer Paul....@UNH.edu
UNH Telecommunications and Technical Services Voice: +1 603 862 3262
50 College Road FAX: +1 603 862 4545
Durham, New Hampshire 03824-3523
Ingvar the Grey
Rob Blake <R.P....@open.ac.uk> writes:
>Ian Dobbie <i...@muscle.rai.kcl.ac.uk> writes:
><lots of boring shit about BC and AD years that boils down to:>
>>
>> No year Zero[3]
>Of course, this means that the next millenium will start on 1st January 2001.
>My supervisor regularly runs 'round telling people that they'll be wrong to
>celebrate the new millenium on 1/1/2000 and how he'll be throwing a big
>party on 1/1/2001.
> Of course, the truely shrewd celebrate both just to be sure ;-)
We really shrewd will do as the majority, start celebrating on 31st of
December 1999 and end midday, the first day of the millenium. Calls
for a bit of vacation, but... what is a year, after all? ;)
//Ingvar (easy... easy...)
--
Send me unsolicited commercial email and DIE!
<http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/mail/>
Brad Keefer P885
Michael Moller wrote:
>
> > Of course, the truely shrewd celebrate both just to be sure ;-)
>
> 1/1/2000 - 1/1/2001. One evening, some time back, during that period
> when conversation tends towards to the more esoteric, a drinking buddy
> and I actually calculated what such an undertaking would cost...
>
> l8r
> mike
just going to keep us in suspense? ;)
--
Brad Keefer - SysAdmin and terminally curious person
Northern Telecom
br...@nortel.ca
David O'Heare
My father (now retired) used to work for Customs and Excise (I think he
was a Mandarin[1], but he won't admit it. The building that he worked
in underwent some major renovations while he was there[2], including the
addition of a floor *between* the ground level on the east side of the
building and the ground floor on the west side[3].
I never did figure that one out.
David O'H
[1] neither Chinese nor citrus, but political
[2] which meant that he worked in a so-called "temporary" building[4]
[3] and also added a parking garage, underground on both sides of the
building, which had parking spots 1-10 against the wall, then 11-
20 behind them; classic LIFO
[4] which was put up during WWII, and finally taken down in the 1980s
--
David O'Heare ohe...@bnr.ca
+1 613 765 3478 (w) +1 613 729 4830 (h)
I speak for nobody but me.
Ryan O'Connell
jo...@earthlink.net (Joe Zeff) wrote:
| Like Compaq? Big name, major advertisor and they still haven't
| learned how to put a reset switch on their boxex?
What's the power switch for then? I can never quite understand PCs that have
both power and reset swtiches on the front.
--
* Ryan O'Connell *** ry...@bcs.org.uk ** Finger: cs9...@dawes.brunel.ac.uk *
* http://www.brunel.ac.uk/~cs95rro/ ** PGP 15BA31D1E33A3E00BED4EA241F1183B4 *
***** Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is [INTJ]*
***** adequately explained by stupidity. *******
Paul Tomblin
Can we just please take it as given that some buildings have slightly
different floor numbering schemes than others, and get on with our lives? I
really don't give a flying fuck whether you enter your place of work on the
third floor or the 6.023x10^23rd floor.
--
Paul Tomblin, PP-ASEL _|_ Rochester Flying Club web page:
____/___\____ http://www.servtech.com/public/
___________[o0o]___________ ptomblin/rfc.html
ptom...@xcski.com O O O