Partial Recovery Via Homebrew
Kyle James Cardoza
since I have such a high alcohol tolerance. I'm also cheap; thus, I'm
looking into brewing my own.
Now, a lot of people brew beer, or wine. I did some homebrew wine for my
wedding to the Spousal Over-Unit, and it was really, really good. However,
I'd like to try something different. I was wondering if any monks have
experience home-brewing mead.
Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a carboy,
an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone who's done it
before has anything special they do.
And yes, I Googled. I'm looking for advice from people smarter than your
average PikiWedia moonbat.
--
Faith does not, in fact, move mountains; it can't even cure diarrhoea, or
clear up acne. It certainly won't protect anyone from his own stupidity.
Jim
> As a method of stress relief, I drink. A lot. Drinking is very expensive,
> since I have such a high alcohol tolerance. I'm also cheap; thus, I'm
> looking into brewing my own.
You know, it's just not fair: you can brew all the beer you want and no-one
gives a damn, but if you set up *one* still...
Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk
RAMSGATE (n.)
All institutional buildings must, by law, contain at least twenty ramsgates.
These are doors which open the opposite way to the one you expect.
Kyle James Cardoza
saying:
> On 2007-08-24, Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com> wrote:
>>
>> As a method of stress relief, I drink. A lot. Drinking is very expensive,
>> since I have such a high alcohol tolerance. I'm also cheap; thus, I'm
>> looking into brewing my own.
>
> Drinking a lot is bad. But you already knew that.
Drinking a lot *is* bad, yes. So is hacking apart everyone around me with a
chainsaw in a homicidal rage attack brought on by being forced to play
nice-admin every day with the less-desirable people who frequent the web
forum you run.
I'll take door number one, please.
>> Now, a lot of people brew beer, or wine. I did some homebrew wine for my
>> wedding to the Spousal Over-Unit, and it was really, really good. However,
>> I'd like to try something different. I was wondering if any monks have
>> experience home-brewing mead.
>
> No, definitely not.
>> Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a carboy,
>> an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone who's done it
>> before has anything special they do.
>
> Yeast. Yeast helps a lot. Also yeast nutrient, since honey lacks a few
> essential things that yeast need to prosper. With mead, be prepared
> for fermentation to take a while; also, bulk aging for 1-2 years can
> be quite helpful for many meads.
I've got time. I've got space. As long as I can be fairly certain it's not
going to explode on me, I could ferment and bottle just about as much as I
could stand.
> If you're looking for a quick mead to experiment with, you could do
> worse than Joe's Ancient Orange. The recipe and methods are a bit
> idiosyncratic, but it's fairly foolproof.
I found that one; it looks like a good recipe to do a small test batch.
> Be open to new ideas and question anything you're told. Find out why
> someone says to do something rather than following it blindly.
Why?
> You will encounter two fairly distinct groups of mead brewers: brewers
> that started with beer and brewers that started with wine. Beer
> brewers will boil their must, treat the water to adjust pH and salts,
> use ale yeasts, and tend to produce meads with ABV lower than 10%.
> Winemakers will treat their must with potassium metabisulphite, use
> wine yeasts, ferment to dryness, and will generally make meads in the
> 11-18% ABV range. They also have an odd tendency to add acid blend and
> tannins to everything.[0]
High ABV is a good thing, but I think I'll skip the tannins.
>> And yes, I Googled. I'm looking for advice from people smarter than your
>> average PikiWedia moonbat.
>
> gotmead.com has some good content, even if the site design does drive me
> buggy sometimes. rec.crafts.meadmaking is pretty quiescent, but there
> are people hanging around that may answer questions. The mead forum on
> HomeBrewTalk is fairly active.
Thanks!
Zebee Johnstone
> an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone who's done it
> before has anything special they do.
Go ask on rec.org.sca. Should get a few viewpoints there.
Zebee
Niklas Karlsson
Paging Ingvar, who I know for a fact can make some excellent mead.
Niklas
Peter Corlett
> On 2007-08-24, Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com> wrote:
>> As a method of stress relief, I drink. A lot. Drinking is very expensive,
>> since I have such a high alcohol tolerance. I'm also cheap; thus, I'm
>> looking into brewing my own.
I've never brewed my own, but 0967452406 seems to be written by a brewing
BOFH who has loads of recipes and entertaining anecdotes, but wouldn't get up
to anything illegal, no siree, but this is how one would go about it, in
great detail, if one were to have some hypothetical need to distill some
spirit.
> You know, it's just not fair: you can brew all the beer you want and
> no-one gives a damn, but if you set up *one* still...
IANAL but it is my understanding that freeze-distilling is not forbidden by
UK law.
Mike Andrews
Paul Arthur <flower...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<slrnfct57s.s5e...@shasta.marwnad.com>:
> gotmead.com has some good content, even if the site design does drive me
> buggy sometimes. rec.crafts.meadmaking is pretty quiescent, but there
> are people hanging around that may answer questions. The mead forum on
> HomeBrewTalk is fairly active.
See also <http://members.cox.net/spursley/>. I know him, I drink his
stuff, and so does Melody. Melody Loves his meads, and _hates_ meads
in general, which may tell you how very good his is.
--
Q: How many mathematicians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: One. He gives it to six Californians, thereby reducing the problem
to the earlier joke.
Phil Launchbury
> Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> You know, it's just not fair: you can brew all the beer you want and
>> no-one gives a damn, but if you set up *one* still...
>
> IANAL but it is my understanding that freeze-distilling is not forbidden by
> UK law.
It isn't. Largely because a) you can't produce methanol by freeze
distilling and b) it's very difficult to make *strong* spirits by
freeze distilling because as they get stronger their freezing point
gets lower..
Phil.
--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'
Julian Macassey
<ad...@zetachannel.com> wrote:
>
> Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a carboy,
> an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone who's done it
> before has anything special they do.
Good tasting booze is a combo of sugar and acid. The
acids used are normally citric, tannic and tartaric.
Putting some lemon juice - Some people throw in halfed
lemons, skin and all - in the mead makes for a better experience.
As for water, it doesn't have to be distilled. Hard water
may be better for added flavour.
To tie into an earlier thread, with fruit trees and
bushes in the Northern Hemisphere groaning with fruit, this is a
good time to make fruit wines.
When I lived in Denmark, I make lots of wine and mead as
booze was so highly taxed. Now I live in the land of "Two Buck
Chick", so it isn't worth the hassle. But there is much pleasure
to be gained from brewing your own.
--
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and
convert them to Christianity." - Anne Coulter on Muslims
he...@kharendaen.dyndns.org
> As a method of stress relief, I drink. A lot.
That's a great idea right up until the point where the side-effects of
the drinking become sources of stress larger than the original ones
you set out to relieve.
> [ mead ]
> Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a carboy,
> an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone who's done it
> before has anything special they do.
Lots of good suggestions upthread.
As with beer and wine, sterile equipment is essential and an automatic
dishwasher can be a big help. Use a mild disinfectant in the water in
the airlock.
Unpasteurized local honey is a big win if you can get it. (In any
event make sure you get 100% actual honey, and not some kind of
honey-flavored corn syrup.)
Try different yeasts; I often get good results with Champagne yeasts,
of all things.
Do your second racking through coffee filters if clarity is a concern.
Crushed multivitamin tabs are a good field-expedient yeast nutrient.
Make sure fermentation is truly done before you bottle. Fizzy mead is
Not Nice, and exploding bottles have a surprisingly low spouse
acceptance factor, particularly when ground zero is a closet full
of clothes.
At least for your first attempts, keep it simple. Use a single honey
without weird and/or strong flavors. (Clover might be a good one.)
There may come a day for orange-coffee-chipotle mead, but today is not
that day.
Aging is fiddly, even more than with wine. Some honeys (heather,
especially) seem to need tens of years in the bottle before they're
fit to drink. A given bottle may go from green to perfect to icky in
as little as a year or two.
Avoid temperature excursions much over 80F for both fermentation and
storage.
Sage honey reliably produces amazing results, 50% of the time in a
positive way.
Maarten Wiltink
news:fambd4$5u1$1...@mooli.org.uk...
> [...] 0967452406 seems to be written ...
Hrmpf. And there I was interpreting that as an IP address in
single-integer representation.
There was no website at that address.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Robert Uhl
> my wedding to the Spousal Over-Unit, and it was really, really
> good. However, I'd like to try something different. I was wondering if
> any monks have experience home-brewing mead.
>
> Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a
> carboy, an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone who's
> done it before has anything special they do.
You don't actually need distilled water; in fact, I'd give it a miss
because honey doesn't really have enough nutrients to give a good
healthy ferment. That, and chuck in the juice from half a lemon per
every 5 gallons, and about 1/4-1/2 cup of tea; the acid & tannins help
balance things, and contribute a few trace elements the yeast might
like.
Really, mead is as easy as wine: mix up honey and water; add yeast; wait
a long time. Then wait longer. Then forget about it. Then, one day,
remember it, bottle up and forget for awhile longer. Then, one fine day
when your beard is white and to your knees, remember it and drink.
If you make a batch every time you empty a carboy, and keep laying them
down, eventually you'll have enough.
--
'I give up,' said Pierre de Fermat's friend. 'How DO you keep a
mathematician busy for 350 years?' --TimC
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com>
wrote:
> Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a
> carboy, an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone
> who's done it before has anything special they do.
There's a whole homebrewing newsgroup where they are quite tolerant of
beginners' questions -- assuming they've read and digested the FAQ.
Since no one in here would ever pipe up with a question without having
read and taken onboard the relevant FAQ, I hesitate even to mention
that bit.
My only advice is to be really, really, really, really careful with
those carboys. They can maim or kill. Seriously. (Problems are
rare, but so what?) I always kept mine swathed in old towels, whether
handling them or not.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyle James Cardoza
saying:
> In the previous article, Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com>
> wrote:
>> Any pointers? I mean, I know I'll need honey, distilled water, a
>> carboy, an airlock, etc.; I'm not an idiot. I'm asking if anyone
>> who's done it before has anything special they do.
>
> There's a whole homebrewing newsgroup where they are quite tolerant of
> beginners' questions -- assuming they've read and digested the FAQ.
> Since no one in here would ever pipe up with a question without having
> read and taken onboard the relevant FAQ, I hesitate even to mention
> that bit.
Well, yeah. My question was meant to search for opinions on homebrewing as
a quiet, non-stressful hobby, and to get some practical pointers from
people who may have done the same thing for the same reason.
I don't always come up with the best ways of communicating my exact
meaning, I know.
> My only advice is to be really, really, really, really careful with
> those carboys. They can maim or kill. Seriously. (Problems are
> rare, but so what?) I always kept mine swathed in old towels, whether
> handling them or not.
Well, yeah. It's a bloody huge glass bottle; drop it, and even if it
doesn't break and gut you like a flounder, it'll crush your
foot/back/household pet, at best.
That's why I was thinking *smaller*. See what I can do in the four-litre
range or so.
Robert Uhl
>> those carboys. They can maim or kill. Seriously. (Problems are
>> rare, but so what?) I always kept mine swathed in old towels,
>> whether handling them or not.
>
> Well, yeah. It's a bloody huge glass bottle; drop it, and even if it
> doesn't break and gut you like a flounder, it'll crush your
> foot/back/household pet, at best.
Oh, it'll shatter. And then cut off a toe, or make excellent headway on
severing a foot. And if it hits in the wrong way, you're D,NA for
good...
That said, I've never broken one. They even make these great little
nylon carriers for 'em nowadays--greatest thing ever.
> That's why I was thinking *smaller*. See what I can do in the
> four-litre range or so.
That's not a bad way to _start_ necessarily, but the work to make 5 or
10 gallons is pretty much the same as to make 1--and 1 gallon of mead
just isn't that much in the long run.
OTOH, you can find jars the exact size you want in the store, holding
apple juice; so all you need is honey, water, an airlock & yeast and
you're in business.
--
It was an indescribably beautiful thing, with the perfection of line and form
that only something designed to be functional can have, lean and graceful and
infinitely menacing, like a man-eating swan.
--Tom Holt, Who's Afraid of Beowulf?
J.D. Baldwin
> > those carboys. They can maim or kill. Seriously. (Problems are
> > rare, but so what?) I always kept mine swathed in old towels,
> > whether handling them or not.
>
> Well, yeah. It's a bloody huge glass bottle; drop it, and even if it
> doesn't break and gut you like a flounder, it'll crush your foot/back/
> household pet, at best.
For extra, added fun ... they sometimes explode. It's rare, but if I
were you I would resolve right now NOT to be the poor bastard on the
wrong end of the odds.
Kyle James Cardoza
saying:
> Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com> writes:
>>
>>> My only advice is to be really, really, really, really careful with
>>> those carboys. They can maim or kill. Seriously. (Problems are
>>> rare, but so what?) I always kept mine swathed in old towels,
>>> whether handling them or not.
>>
>> Well, yeah. It's a bloody huge glass bottle; drop it, and even if it
>> doesn't break and gut you like a flounder, it'll crush your
>> foot/back/household pet, at best.
>
> Oh, it'll shatter. And then cut off a toe, or make excellent headway on
> severing a foot. And if it hits in the wrong way, you're D,NA for
> good...
>
> That said, I've never broken one. They even make these great little
> nylon carriers for 'em nowadays--greatest thing ever.
Neat! Safety first, as long as it's my safety...
>> That's why I was thinking *smaller*. See what I can do in the
>> four-litre range or so.
>
> That's not a bad way to _start_ necessarily, but the work to make 5 or
> 10 gallons is pretty much the same as to make 1--and 1 gallon of mead
> just isn't that much in the long run.
>
> OTOH, you can find jars the exact size you want in the store, holding
> apple juice; so all you need is honey, water, an airlock & yeast and
> you're in business.
Oh, I was talking about "to start". Reading this bit, (and this may sound
*really* stupid, and if so, that sucks, and oh well...) it suddenly occurs
to me that I read something somewhere about people fermenting their own
root beer and ginger ale in 2-litre bottles. How well would that work for
a *really* *freaking* *small* test batch of mead, provided I could get a
stopper with a bung and airlock to fit it? I mean, it's certainly graded
for long-term storage of pressurized sugar/water combinations, and it
*has* to be food-grade plastic, right?
And on the bright side, if it *would* actually work, if it exploded, I'd be
dealing with big chunks of plastic, not sharp shards of glass.
Jim Richardson
> saying:
>
>
>> apple juice; so all you need is honey, water, an airlock & yeast and
>> you're in business.
>
> Oh, I was talking about "to start". Reading this bit, (and this may sound
> *really* stupid, and if so, that sucks, and oh well...) it suddenly occurs
> to me that I read something somewhere about people fermenting their own
> root beer and ginger ale in 2-litre bottles. How well would that work for
> a *really* *freaking* *small* test batch of mead, provided I could get a
> stopper with a bung and airlock to fit it? I mean, it's certainly graded
> for long-term storage of pressurized sugar/water combinations, and it
> *has* to be food-grade plastic, right?
>
> And on the bright side, if it *would* actually work, if it exploded, I'd be
> dealing with big chunks of plastic, not sharp shards of glass.
>
You can easily brew mead in a 2liter pop bottle. But mead generally
requires quite a long time to mature. A very quick and simple drink to
brew is cyser, that is cider, sweetened with honey, and using some high
alchohol yeast like a champagne yeast. One gallon of apple juice, drain
off about 1 qt, then discard half of it, add 1 pt of honey to the qt
left over, warm until honey disolves totally, then pitch in the yeast
and the mixture back into the jug. Put a lock on it, wait till the
bubbling is down to < 1 bubble a second, then consume. Takes about
a fortnight.
mmm cyser...
--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Life is too short to be taken seriously.
-- Oscar Wilde
Kyle James Cardoza
saying:
You know, *that* is a really good idea. I've got scads of 2L bottles
waiting to be recycled, and a stopper/airlock can't cost that much.
So, champagne yeast, eh? Do I need to pitch some yeast nutrient in with
it, or will the cider provide enough? I'd like at least 10% ABV or more,
but I'm not looking for jet fuel here.
How well do you think a scaled-down batch of Joe's Ancient Orange would
fare if fermented like this?
Jim Richardson
Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com> wrote:
> Jim Richardson caught my attention on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:18:39 -0700 by
> saying:
>
>>
>> requires quite a long time to mature. A very quick and simple drink to
>> brew is cyser, that is cider, sweetened with honey, and using some high
>> alchohol yeast like a champagne yeast. One gallon of apple juice, drain
>> off about 1 qt, then discard half of it, add 1 pt of honey to the qt
>> left over, warm until honey disolves totally, then pitch in the yeast
>> and the mixture back into the jug. Put a lock on it, wait till the
>> bubbling is down to < 1 bubble a second, then consume. Takes about
>> a fortnight.
>>
>> mmm cyser...
>>
>
> You know, *that* is a really good idea. I've got scads of 2L bottles
> waiting to be recycled, and a stopper/airlock can't cost that much.
Generally under a buck for the little S shaped ones around here. Or you
can make your own with a bit of plastic tube and a jam jar.
> So, champagne yeast, eh? Do I need to pitch some yeast nutrient in with
> it, or will the cider provide enough? I'd like at least 10% ABV or more,
> but I'm not looking for jet fuel here.
>
no nutrient needed, we used to get about 8%-9% ABV with this, using
champagne yeast (higher tolerance for alchohol than beer years) I think
the apple juice has all the nutrients needed. The honey is there for
boost, and for flavour. Oh, forgot to mention, best use unfiltered
applejuice, pastuerized is fine. Probably a good idea in fact.
> How well do you think a scaled-down batch of Joe's Ancient Orange would
> fare if fermented like this?
>
Probably do just fine, but as I said, mead generally takes a fair bit of
time to mature. We laid up a five gallon batch the weekend after we got
married, and drank a bottle of it every year after for about 6 years. By
the 6th year, it was really good.
The first year, not so much.
--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Chaos, panic, & disorder - my work here is done
Alan J Rosenthal
>[...] as I said, mead generally takes a fair bit of
>time to mature. We laid up a five gallon batch the weekend after we got
>married, and drank a bottle of it every year after for about 6 years. By
>the 6th year, it was really good.
>
>The first year, not so much.
Perhaps you just got used to it!
-- aj "suspects it would take me that long to get used to mead too" r
Robert Uhl
>
> Oh, I was talking about "to start". Reading this bit, (and this may
> sound *really* stupid, and if so, that sucks, and oh well...) it
> suddenly occurs to me that I read something somewhere about people
> fermenting their own root beer and ginger ale in 2-litre bottles. How
> well would that work for a *really* *freaking* *small* test batch of
> mead, provided I could get a stopper with a bung and airlock to fit
> it? I mean, it's certainly graded for long-term storage of pressurized
> sugar/water combinations, and it *has* to be food-grade plastic,
> right?
Plastic is bad bad bad. Bacteria love it; molds love it; air passes
through it. Glass is your friend, glass is good, glass is great.
> And on the bright side, if it *would* actually work, if it exploded,
> I'd be dealing with big chunks of plastic, not sharp shards of glass.
Nothing in brewing should explode, since the only things under pressure
are the bottles you bottle in, and that's done in a controlled fashion.
Fermenting vessels are _never_ sealed. Do that and you'll have bombs.
--
Be wary of strong drink; it makes you shoot tax collectors--and miss.
--Robert Heinlein
Brian Kantor
>For extra, added fun ... they sometimes explode. It's rare, but if I
>were you I would resolve right now NOT to be the poor bastard on the
>wrong end of the odds.
And the cellar has the most peculiar aroma for months afterwards.
- Brian
Jasper Janssen
INVALID...@example.com.invalid (J.D. Baldwin) wrote:
>For extra, added fun ... they sometimes explode. It's rare, but if I
>were you I would resolve right now NOT to be the poor bastard on the
>wrong end of the odds.
IOW "check the airlock function on a regular basis"?
Jasper
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 07:31 AM, Kyle James Cardoza <ad...@zetachannel.com> said:
>Now, a lot of people brew beer, or wine. I did some homebrew wine for
>my wedding to the Spousal Over-Unit, and it was really, really good.
>However, I'd like to try something different. I was wondering if any
>monks have experience home-brewing mead.
What about tej? Or is that the same thing as mead?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
John F. Eldredge
Jesus used a metaphor about new wine needing to go into new wineskins, as
old wineskins would burst open. This suggests that the practice at the
time in Palestine was to ferment the wine in a sealed wineskin (a leather
bag), which would stretch somewhat as the pressure increased. Trying to
do this a second time, with an already-stretched wineskin, wouldn't work.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Robert Uhl
>
>> Nothing in brewing should explode, since the only things under
>> pressure are the bottles you bottle in, and that's done in a
>> controlled fashion. Fermenting vessels are _never_ sealed. Do that
>> and you'll have bombs.
>
> as old wineskins would burst open. This suggests that the practice at
> the time in Palestine was to ferment the wine in a sealed wineskin (a
> leather bag), which would stretch somewhat as the pressure increased.
> Trying to do this a second time, with an already-stretched wineskin,
> wouldn't work.
I don't recall that particular passage, but I'd think it'd be more along
the lines of new wine getting an un-soured skin (old wine, like old
beer, has some souring organisms in it which just _love_ to hang out in
wood, leather, whatever. If you put grape juice into a wine skin and
actually sealed it up, it wouldn't stretch--it'd pop. Even if you
loosely sealed it, it'd likely clog, sealing it well, and thus explode.
--
I have identified this service to be a scam using the 'superfluous female
person standing next to logo' method. --BillX on /.
John F. Eldredge
> "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> writes:
>>
>>> Nothing in brewing should explode, since the only things under
>>> pressure are the bottles you bottle in, and that's done in a
>>> controlled fashion. Fermenting vessels are _never_ sealed. Do that
>>> and you'll have bombs.
>>
>> Jesus used a metaphor about new wine needing to go into new wineskins,
>> as old wineskins would burst open. This suggests that the practice at
>> the time in Palestine was to ferment the wine in a sealed wineskin (a
>> leather bag), which would stretch somewhat as the pressure increased.
>> Trying to do this a second time, with an already-stretched wineskin,
>> wouldn't work.
>
> I don't recall that particular passage, but I'd think it'd be more along
> the lines of new wine getting an un-soured skin (old wine, like old
> beer, has some souring organisms in it which just _love_ to hang out in
> wood, leather, whatever. If you put grape juice into a wine skin and
> actually sealed it up, it wouldn't stretch--it'd pop. Even if you
> loosely sealed it, it'd likely clog, sealing it well, and thus explode.
I found the passage. "Neither is new wine put into old wineskins; if it
is, the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins are destroyed;
but new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved."
(Matthew 9:17, part of a discussion of why the Pharisees and the disciples
of John the Baptist practiced fasting, but Jesus' disciples did not).
Perhaps the practice being alluded to involved already-fermented wine,
which still had a limited amount of gas-production going on.