inept customer service
John F. Eldredge
things, this meant that I had to turn in my old CPAP machine and get a
new one, as the old and new insurance companies dealt with different
durable medical equipment providers. The old insurance company rented
the machines by the month; the new one preferred outright purchase.
I never received a bill for my share of the cost of the CPAP machine, so
I assumed that the insurance company had paid for it 100%. However,
starting a couple of months later, I started receiving automated phone
calls from the provider, which I will call XYZ Healthcare. I averaged
four calls a day, although some days I got up to seven. Each one said
"This is XYZ Healthcare, your home health provider, calling with
important information about your services. We will try to contact you
later." Even if I answered the phone in person, as opposed to having the
answering machine take the call, I couldn't talk to a human; all I got
was the automated "contact you later" message. There was nothing to
indicate why they were calling, nor was any phone number given to call
back. The local office of XYZ Healthcare had no idea of why I was
receiving the calls, and tried, unsuccessfully, to have me taken off of
the list.
Finally, yesterday, I thought of having the local branch of XYZ
Healthcare put me through to their corporate offices. It turned out that
I owed about $200 from the original CPAP purchase, although they had
never sent me a bill, just the vaguely-worded automated phone calls. I
paid the bill in full yesterday. A couple of hours after I paid the
bill, I got an automated phone message from the corporate office giving
their phone number, the first such message stating that information.
Apparently the local office doesn't have any way to determine if a
customer owes the corporate office money. If I had been told that I
still had a balance due, I would have paid it in January.
Since I continued to get the calls today, I called the corporate office
back again. It would seem that the computer that sends out the automated
nagging calls is only updated once a week, on Mondays, so I will continue
to get several calls a day until then, even though my bill is paid in
full.
Now I think I know what company was the inspiration for Dilbert.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Shmuel Metz
at 12:56 AM, "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> said:
>Now I think I know what company was the inspiration for Dilbert.
No you don't; the corporate copelessness you describe is endemic. I will
concede that the first time I read Dilbert my reaction was "He must have
worked at &foo", but too many people have had the same reaction for
different values of foo for me to believe that the diseases are unique to
individual companies.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
mikea
You may also get to collect from them, for violation of the TCPA, for
each phone call you receive after you paid the bill. Well worth looking
into, at something like $1500/call to start, and with treble damages
applying in many cases.
--
"I don't have any solution but I certainly admire the problem."
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
Brian Kantor
>Since I continued to get the calls today, I called the corporate office
>back again. It would seem that the computer that sends out the automated
>nagging calls is only updated once a week, on Mondays, so I will continue
>to get several calls a day until then, even though my bill is paid in
>full.
Such unidentified robotic calls are completely illegal in the USA.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode47/usc_sec_47_00000227----000-.html
-- pp d3B
California has a stricter requirement:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/puc/2871-2876.html
excerpt from wikipedia:
The guidelines are: 1. A "live" person must come on the line before
the recording to identify the nature of the call and the organization
behind it. 2. The recipient of the call must consent to allowing
the recording to be played. 3. The call must be disconnected from
the telephone line as soon as the message is over or the recipient
hangs up, whichever comes first.
I have *never* gotten a robo-call that complies with the California
requirements.
- Brian
Joe Zeff
> I have *never* gotten a robo-call that complies with the California
> requirements.
Neither have I. I do get calls that are nothing but a recording telling
me that there is a very important message for me and that to receive it I
need to dial some number. I've no idea what the message is because I've
never bothered to write down the number, let alone call it. I figure
that if it's that important, they'll call and tell me what it is. My
suspicion is that it's a sales call, and they're trying to get around the
National Don't Call List by tricking me into calling *them.*
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
J.P. Clark’s Law: “Any sufficiently advanced cluelessness/incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.”
Garrett Wollman
>California has a stricter requirement:
> http://law.justia.com/california/codes/puc/2871-2876.html
>
>excerpt from wikipedia:
>
>I have *never* gotten a robo-call that complies with the California
>requirements.
I'd be surprised if the California law were legally enforceable, at
least in diversity cases.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> Such unidentified robotic calls are completely illegal in the USA.
Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Part I, Section 227, Subsection (a):
(1) The term "automatic telephone dialing system" means equipment
which has the capacity�
(A) to store or produce telephone numbers to be called, using a
random or sequential number generator; and
(B) to dial such numbers.
They will say they don't fall under this section, as they are not "using a
random or sequential number generator". Perhaps it's a different section
you are thinking of?
--
Kenneth Brody
Kenneth Brody
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:35:11 +0000, Brian Kantor wrote:
>
>> I have *never* gotten a robo-call that complies with the California
>> requirements.
>
> Neither have I. I do get calls that are nothing but a recording telling
> me that there is a very important message for me and that to receive it I
> need to dial some number. I've no idea what the message is because I've
> never bothered to write down the number, let alone call it. I figure
> that if it's that important, they'll call and tell me what it is. My
> suspicion is that it's a sales call, and they're trying to get around the
> National Don't Call List by tricking me into calling *them.*
What about the robocalls that aren't smart enough to wait for the beep, so
all you get is the tail end of the phone number you are supposed to call?
--
Kenneth Brody
Joe Zeff
> What about the robocalls that aren't smart enough to wait for the beep,
> so all you get is the tail end of the phone number you are supposed to
> call?
I wouldn't know; we don't have an answering machine set up.[1] If we're
not here, we don't know you called.
[1]Yet Another Pet Peeve: people who use setup in that context.
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
"Always there are two, the BOFH and the PFY."
Alan J Rosenthal
>[1]Yet Another Pet Peeve: people who use setup in that context.
"Setup" is the noun; "set up" is the verb (and a particle).
Simple enough? No, too complicated for lusers.
Jasper Janssen
wrote:
The sentence works perfectly well with the noun version, though.
"We don't have an answering machine installation".
There is a whiff of ATM machine syndrome, but then, I can imagine
something that in aghgregate may be an answering machine but is clearly
big enough to be an installation itself.
Jasper
Kenneth Brody
What about "there/their/they're", or "its/it's"?
Or even better, "you/u", "to/2", and "please/plz", as in "can u hlp me 2 do
this plz".
--
Kenneth Brody
Joe Zeff
> What about "there/their/they're", or "its/it's"?
Then again, there are the lusers who've learned the "i before e" bit, and
end up writing "thier."
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
I'll have to try and get an item written into the DR plan specifying a
run to Krispy Kreme for sysadmin fuel, since it'd no doubt be a long
night ahead.
Kenneth Brody
> Kenneth Brody wrote:
>
>> Or even better, "you/u", "to/2", and "please/plz", as in "can u hlp me 2 do
>> this plz".
>
That's usually the answer IRL to "do you know what time it is?"
> This works better when you are also the person that people complain to
> about you.
:-)
--
Kenneth Brody
Alan J Rosenthal
>"can u hlp me 2 do this plz"
no sry, cnt rd u r msg kthxbye
Maarten Wiltink
news:Q_qdnUjms-e13x3X...@bestweb.net...
>>> we don't have an answering machine set up.[1]
>> ...
>>> [1]Yet Another Pet Peeve: people who use setup in that context.
>>
>> "Setup" is the noun; "set up" is the verb (and a particle).
>>
>> Simple enough? No, too complicated for lusers.
>
> What about "there/their/they're", or "its/it's"?
You forgot "have/of". I've even seen it here.
Mellowing in my old age, I've already decided to stop getting worked
up about the Dutch phenomenon of using 'hun' (them) instead of 'ze'/'zij'
(they) once we're out of the first decade of the new millennium.
In fact, I've mellowed (been struck numb) enough that I can now almost
watch it happen and merely wonder about the factors behind this kind of
language shift, instead of just about the lineage of those who engage in
it. (I'm specifically talking about the English phonetic substitutions
here, not the Dutch case mixup.) As for myself, I (think I) don't make
that kind of mistake - 'too' and 'to' and 'two' are simply such different
words that substituting one for the other would have to be a conscious
act. What does it say about the cognition in people who do make that kind
of slip-up? Do they not _see_ the words, just vaguely hear them? Are their
fingers connected to their ears? What are they thinking? Are they even
thinking? I don't know whether to find it fascinating or horrifying.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Alan J Rosenthal
>As for myself, I (think I) don't make
>that kind of mistake - 'too' and 'to' and 'two' are simply such different
>words that substituting one for the other would have to be a conscious
>act.
"Too" and "to" can be substituted for each other via typo quite easily,
though. Especially "too" -> "to".
(And are you sure that your "'too' and 'to' and 'two'" isn't an error for
"'to' and 'two' and 'too'"?)
Maarten Wiltink
news:2009Aug11.0...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
> "Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:
>> As for myself, I (think I) don't make that kind of mistake -
>> 'too' and 'to' and 'two' are simply such different words that
>> substituting one for the other would have to be a conscious
>> act.
>
> "Too" and "to" can be substituted for each other via typo quite easily,
> though. Especially "too" -> "to".
Only on substandard keyboards. With any tactile feedback at all, I don't
see it happening.
I have been known to throw a newly-issued keyboard in the bin and go
hunting for a decent one. Come to think of it, I did that again when I
started in this job.
Reading what's on screen helps, too. Another thing apparently considered
optional by many.
> (And are you sure that your "'too' and 'to' and 'two'" isn't an error
> for "'to' and 'two' and 'too'"?)
Quite possibly, yes. Or not. By the time I was typing that, I had
snipped the original mention of (two of) them, and was working from
memory. So the important point was which words were in the set, not
their relative order. Yet another fascinating example of how the mind
works. If and when it works.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Garrett Wollman
Maarten Wiltink <usene...@mfw.dds.nl> wrote:
>"Alan J Rosenthal" <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote in message
>news:2009Aug11.0...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
>> though. Especially "too" -> "to".
>
>Only on substandard keyboards. With any tactile feedback at all, I don't
>see it happening.
It's well documented, going back to mechanical-typewriter days.
Tactile feedback has nothing to do with it. There's actually a
significant amount of literature on keyboarding errors; the types of
errors are pretty much universal across technologies and typists,
although I suppose the target language's graphemic repertoire does
have a significant effect. One of the Language Loggers did a nice
review of this literature some time back.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Jasper Janssen
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
>In fact, I've mellowed (been struck numb) enough that I can now almost
>watch it happen and merely wonder about the factors behind this kind of
>language shift, instead of just about the lineage of those who engage in
>it. (I'm specifically talking about the English phonetic substitutions
>here, not the Dutch case mixup.) As for myself, I (think I) don't make
>that kind of mistake - 'too' and 'to' and 'two' are simply such different
>words that substituting one for the other would have to be a conscious
>act. What does it say about the cognition in people who do make that kind
>of slip-up? Do they not _see_ the words, just vaguely hear them? Are their
>fingers connected to their ears? What are they thinking? Are they even
>thinking? I don't know whether to find it fascinating or horrifying.
Homonym errors are very easy to creep in, if you actually think in the
language in question. Not so much for the typical dutch
second-language-english speaker, but when it's getting late and I've been
immersed in english for a while I start making them as well.
Jasper
Graham Reed
> Tactile feedback has nothing to do with it. There's actually a
> significant amount of literature on keyboarding errors; the types of
> errors are pretty much universal across technologies and typists,
Perhaps what's happening is, keyboards with good mechanical feedback
are good in other respects, too.
I know I get a very high rate of dropped character typos on those $5
rubber dome keyboards that come with new PCs this millenium. Shortly
followed by the "flaming wrists of fire" effect.
Certain keyboard drivers, FruitCo ">console" springs immediately to
mind, seem to have something in them that results in strange
transposition errors or repeated characters. And that's on keyboards
where I otherwise have a very low error rate, which suggests that the
GUI drivers do something different from the textmode ones. Like
getting all the typematic repeat times wrong and paying too much
attention to "key up" events when multiple keys are struck in short
succession. (I'm not sure, but I think there's often more than one
key between "key down" and "key up" when I'm at full clatter; and
normally, the "key down" event types the keystroke.)
They keyboard I'm on right now has a flaw in its N-key rollover that
results in me frequently receiving "versioqn" when I type "version".
Which is usually due to a poorly-thought matrix layout; the CBM 8-bits
had some really fun ghost-key sequences that could foil a
touch-typist.
So I suspect there's a new family of technologies that would need to
be tested. And, of course, I expect lots of well-known lore in
keyboard design has been lost in the race to the bottom of the
market, for both malicious (Not Invented Here, Cut Every Corner) and
incompetent (there's literature on keyboard design?) reasons.
--
"You are a winner. But that doesn't mean you aren't a loser."
-- [jealous] co-worker after I won two iPods
stevo
> "Alan J Rosenthal" <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote in message
> news:2009Aug11.0...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
>> "Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:
>
>>> As for myself, I (think I) don't make that kind of mistake -
>>> 'too' and 'to' and 'two' are simply such different words that
>>> substituting one for the other would have to be a conscious
>>> act.
>>
>> "Too" and "to" can be substituted for each other via typo quite easily,
>> though. Especially "too" -> "to".
>
> Only on substandard keyboards. With any tactile feedback at all, I don't
> see it happening.
>
> I have been known to throw a newly-issued keyboard in the bin and go
> hunting for a decent one. Come to think of it, I did that again when I
> started in this job.
>
> Reading what's on screen helps, too. Another thing apparently considered
> optional by many.
>
actually reading what you're typing. At least that's what goes through
what passes for a luser's brain.
--
Stevo st...@madcelt.org
Brian Kantor
>be tested. And, of course, I expect lots of well-known lore in
>keyboard design has been lost in the race to the bottom of the
>market, for both malicious (Not Invented Here, Cut Every Corner) and
>incompetent (there's literature on keyboard design?) reasons.
I am of the opinion that IBM is responsible for both the best keyboard
ever invented, and the worst. Selectric and PC-Junior respectively.
I collect Northgate Omni-Key 101s for the days when I need one to repair
another. That may be excessive caution; the one I'm typing this on is
still working perfectly after 20-something years.
- Brian
Kenneth Brody
[...]
> Mellowing in my old age, I've already decided to stop getting worked
> up about the Dutch phenomenon of using 'hun' (them) instead of 'ze'/'zij'
> (they) once we're out of the first decade of the new millennium.
Which is, of course, 1-Jan-2011, right?
> In fact, I've mellowed (been struck numb) enough that I can now almost
> watch it happen and merely wonder about the factors behind this kind of
> language shift, instead of just about the lineage of those who engage in
> it. (I'm specifically talking about the English phonetic substitutions
> here, not the Dutch case mixup.) As for myself, I (think I) don't make
> that kind of mistake - 'too' and 'to' and 'two' are simply such different
> words that substituting one for the other would have to be a conscious
> act. What does it say about the cognition in people who do make that kind
> of slip-up? Do they not _see_ the words, just vaguely hear them? Are their
> fingers connected to their ears? What are they thinking? Are they even
> thinking? I don't know whether to find it fascinating or horrifying.
Well, its/it's is at least understandable, as we (as in "English-speaking
people") have been taught early on that apostrophe-s is the possessive form.
The rest, aside from the occasional brain-fart, I can't understand.
As for the stupid you/u, please/plz, to/2, and so on, those are obviously
intentional, and have no excuse outside of those rare places where it's
welcome. I know if I were to ever receive a resume (sorry, that should
probably be "r�sum�", though Thunderbird doesn't like that spelling) or
sample code with such things, I'd dismiss it without a second glance. And
if documentation came that way, I would probably return the product.
--
Kenneth Brody
Kenneth Brody
[... to/two/too, there/they're/their, etc. ...]
> Reading what's on screen helps, too. Another thing apparently considered
> optional by many.
Whatever happened to touch-typing? I am usually looking at the screen when
typing, anyway. Sometimes, I have been known to type for short stretches
while talking to (and looking at) another person. It's the exception that I
am looking at the keyboard while typing. (Though my high school typing
teacher would cringe at my typing style, I type faster than almost anyone
else I know. That comes from 39 years of practice.)
[...]
--
Kenneth Brody
Kenneth Brody
> Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
[...]
>> Reading what's on screen helps, too. Another thing apparently considered
>> optional by many.
>>
> Well of course. The speelchecker will fix all errors, so why bother
> actually reading what you're typing. At least that's what goes through
> what passes for a luser's brain.
I would like to apply fore a job as an editor of your paper. I halve a
computer, and it has spellcheck, and it wood seam that this is awl I really
knead.
I had originally intended too dew this last weak, but then I happened to
reed my horoscope in The Times, and it said: "Put on the reigns before you
lose control of everything. Of coarse, once I red this, I gnu it wood be
better to weight four a more auspicious thyme.
Aye thought at first that maybe I should caul, but then I decided it mite be
better to right. I truly believe that I would be a grate editor--know matter
watt--rein or shine. Eye wood make accuracy inn spelling the mane ingredient
of my editorial rain. Just to prove my hart is in the rite place, I maid
sure this letter was perfect--I ran it threw Spellcheck.
I really due wont this job, and I no I could bee a reel asset, butt if yew
don't higher mi, I won't whale.
--
Kenneth Brody
David Gersic
> I collect Northgate Omni-Key 101s for the days when I need one to repair
> another. That may be excessive caution; the one I'm typing this on is
> still working perfectly after 20-something years.
I've worn out several keyswitches on both of my Northgate keyboards, so
your caution is justified. Fortunately, you don't need a Northgate to
provide spare parts. There were quite a few companies that used Alps
keyswitches, most of which were on really cheap keyboards that nobody
wants now, so you can pick them up cheap.
Lawns 'R' Us
> Whatever happened to touch-typing? I am usually looking at the screen when
> typing, anyway. Sometimes, I have been known to type for short stretches
> while talking to (and looking at) another person.
Or typing whilst looking at a document that needs to be transcribed.
Which, fortunately, is a rare case.
> It's the exception that I
> am looking at the keyboard while typing. (Though my high school typing
> teacher would cringe at my typing style, I type faster than almost anyone
> else I know. That comes from 39 years of practice.)
I know what you mean. My colleagues were amazed at how fast I could
type in my first job. I was able to get things done on the CLI of the
product we were using faster than they could click through on the GUI,
in *spite* of the fact that the CLI was a piss poor attempt.
I had my system set up with a ZF Angheny Xrlobneq (say what you will
about Erqzbaq, they do good hardware if you can overlook the Jvaqbjf
and Zrah keys) and a Ybtvgrpu Genpxzna Zneoyr. Colleagues would come
over to show me something, take one look at my desk, and say, "You
drive." That was a *very* good move on my part, if I do say so
myself...
Peter Corlett
[...]
> As for the stupid you/u, please/plz, to/2, and so on, those are obviously
> intentional, and have no excuse outside of those rare places where it's
> welcome. I know if I were to ever receive a resume (sorry, that should
> probably be "r�sum�",
Although that's how one ends up with a "risumi". Gargle for it.
On this side of the pond, we sidestep the issue by calling them a CV. And
pimps normally insist that they're done in MS Turd format, which exchanges
plaintext corruption issues for a whole new world of hurt.
Bernard Peek
<ab...@cabal.org.uk> writes
I wrote mine with Open Office and so far nobody has complained about any
formatting problems.
--
Bernard Peek
Garrett Wollman
Peter Corlett <ab...@cabal.org.uk> wrote:
>Although that's how one ends up with a "risumi". Gargle for it.
>
>On this side of the pond, we sidestep the issue by calling them a CV.
I think you'll find that "curriculum vitae" and "resume" actually have
slightly different meanings. Typically the only people who are likely
to do a full CV here are academics and candidates for the judiciary.
The resume is supposed to be the one-page summary (hence the name) of
the full CV, addressing only the points of one's experience that are
salient to the job.
Shmuel Metz
at 10:18 AM, ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
>On this side of the pond, we sidestep the issue by calling them a CV.
Are you sure that you don't use both terms? Isn't a CV a chronological job
history. What do you call those one page summaries that don't tell
anything useful but that HR demands you provide and the pimps demand you
write? Is that not a r�sum� in the EU?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
Paul
> I collect Northgate Omni-Key 101s for the days when I need one to
> repair another. That may be excessive caution; the one I'm typing
> this on is still working perfectly after 20-something years.
Of course you realize that is only because it knows you have the
spare parts.
--
Paul the Legacy Server
Full Recovery reached May 30, 2008
"People can be educated beyond their intelligence"
-- Marilyn vos Savant
Bernard Peek
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes
>In <h60pa5$fn2$1...@mooli.org.uk>, on 08/13/2009
> at 10:18 AM, ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) said:
>
>>On this side of the pond, we sidestep the issue by calling them a CV.
>
>Are you sure that you don't use both terms? Isn't a CV a chronological job
>history. What do you call those one page summaries that don't tell
>anything useful but that HR demands you provide and the pimps demand you
>write? Is that not a r‚sum‚ in the EU?
The only time I've come across such a beast it was called a "one pager."
My CV is a pretty standard affair for the UK, a couple of pages giving
chronological details of recent jobs and a brief summary of the
preceding 20 years work. I've never used a one page resume and I've
never received any when I've been hiring.
--
Bernard Peek
Iain Sharp
wrote:
One might, however, include a covering letter highlighting the bits of
the CV one feels are best suited to the job requirements.
Iain
Kenneth Brody
> On 13 Aug 2009 07:24:13 GMT, Lawns 'R' Us wrote:
>> I know what you mean. My colleagues were amazed at how fast I could
>> type in my first job. I was able to get things done on the CLI of the
>> product we were using faster than they could click through on the GUI,
>> in *spite* of the fact that the CLI was a piss poor attempt.
>>
>> I had my system set up with a ZF Angheny Xrlobneq (say what you will
>> about Erqzbaq, they do good hardware if you can overlook the Jvaqbjf
>> and Zrah keys) and a Ybtvgrpu Genpxzna Zneoyr. Colleagues would come
>> over to show me something, take one look at my desk, and say, "You
>
> course).
Well, I have to admit I use a GUI e-mail client.
On the other hand, I still get strange looks when people ask what program I
use to create web pages, and I answer "vi".
--
Kenneth Brody
Bernard Peek
<ia...@pciltd.co.uk> writes
>>The only time I've come across such a beast it was called a "one pager."
>>My CV is a pretty standard affair for the UK, a couple of pages giving
>>chronological details of recent jobs and a brief summary of the
>>preceding 20 years work. I've never used a one page resume and I've
>>never received any when I've been hiring.
>
>One might, however, include a covering letter highlighting the bits of
>the CV one feels are best suited to the job requirements.
You can but that's a dangerous choice because covering letters often get
binned. It's far better to cut out the stuff that isn't relevant. If
like me your IT career started before the IBM PC you have lots of stuff
to put in a CV. Resist the temptation because although pimps will love
it hiring managers probably won't. It may well be viewed by HR people
first and they are even less likely to be impressed by stuff that isn't
on their list of things to look for. The CV with all the cruft is the
one you send to an agency, the one they send to the employer should be
very different. This is a lesson I've learned far too late.
--
Bernard Peek
Peter Corlett
> Kenneth Brody wrote:
[...]
>> I would like to apply fore a job as an editor of your paper. I halve a
>> computer, and it has spellcheck, and it wood seam that this is awl I
>> really knead.
I worked for the Graun for a while, and people would ask me what I did
there. After explaining what I did, I'd usually get a blank stare. So I'd
re-explain it by saying I worked on one of the systems that shuffled the
letters around.
It's still the least-worst British newspaper.
Brian Kantor
>You can but that's a dangerous choice because covering letters often get
>binned. It's far better to cut out the stuff that isn't relevant. If
>like me your IT career started before the IBM PC you have lots of stuff
>to put in a CV.
And if you apply to a place like this, they'll take your submission
(in Word fmt, plz) (or OCR the paper), store it on disk, and spit it
and others out when the correlation between the buzzwords on the CV
and those on the job req. is sufficient.
I've seen some that suggest that a 1% match is sufficient.
Those then gets sent to the hiring manager, who is required to hire one
of the recently-laid-off persons regardless of how many other applicants
are better qualified or document extensively why not.
Oh, and since it can take them up to six months to decide, the only way
to find out you weren't hired for a job is to keep checking the wanted
ads until the position is listed as 'filled'. They sure won't tell you.
- Brian
Marc Haber
>And I get "you still use a command line email client??!!one" (an Ex shop, of
>course).
Over here, people do s/command line/DOS/ email client, meaning mutt of
couse. Everything that ain't Windows must be DOS. Especially if it
isn't colorful.
Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Mav
of the universe to say:
> I collect Northgate Omni-Key 101s for the days when I need one to repair
> another. That may be excessive caution; the one I'm typing this on is
> still working perfectly after 20-something years.
> - Brian
I have an original Model M... literally old enough to drink now, and all
it's needed is the keys scrubbed on occasion. When people ask why I don't
get a Shiny New keyboard at work, I tell them, "I prefer a keyboard I can
beat someone to death with, then write their obituary with."
--
TechMav AKA The Guy In The Funny Black Hat
When the FBI/CIA/NSA/FDA/and other three-letter government agencies come
looking, you don't know me, you never saw me, never heard of me. get it?
got it? good!
Lionel
> On 2009-08-12, Brian Kantor <br...@ucsd.edu> bent the will
> of the universe to say:
>> I collect Northgate Omni-Key 101s for the days when I need one to repair
>> another. That may be excessive caution; the one I'm typing this on is
>> still working perfectly after 20-something years.
>> - Brian
>
> I have an original Model M... literally old enough to drink now, and all
> it's needed is the keys scrubbed on occasion. When people ask why I don't
> get a Shiny New keyboard at work, I tell them, "I prefer a keyboard I can
> beat someone to death with, then write their obituary with."
Or a tad more grammatically: "I prefer a keyboard with which I can beat
someone to death, then use to write their obituary."
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Garrett Wollman
>Mav wrote:
>> get a Shiny New keyboard at work, I tell them, "I prefer a keyboard I can
>> beat someone to death with, then write their obituary with."
>
>Or a tad more grammatically: "I prefer a keyboard with which I can beat
>someone to death, then use to write their obituary."
Bosh! Nothing to do with grammar.
Marc Haber
>Or a tad more grammatically: "I prefer a keyboard with which I can beat
>someone to death, then use to write their obituary."
SWMBO says, that one would need to be careful not to wake the dead
body up again while writing the obituary.
Lionel
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:22:01 +0000 (UTC), Mav wrote:
>> I have an original Model M... literally old enough to drink now, and all
>> it's needed is the keys scrubbed on occasion. When people ask why I don't
>> get a Shiny New keyboard at work, I tell them, "I prefer a keyboard I can
>> beat someone to death with, then write their obituary with."
>
> have that clunky old style thing!"
Fuck 'em, their loss.
Maarten Wiltink
news:slrnh8ddq3...@gort.thesatya.com...
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:22:01 +0000 (UTC), Mav wrote:
>> I have an original Model M... literally old enough to drink now, and
>> all it's needed is the keys scrubbed on occasion. When people ask
>> why I don't get a Shiny New keyboard at work, I tell them, "I prefer
>> a keyboard I canbeat someone to death with, then write their obituary
>> with."
>
> Oh, yeah, when certain people saw my Model M at ork, I got a "holy crap,
> you have that clunky old style thing!"
Our friendly sysadmin at work was cleaning out the desks of his
laid-off colleagues and throwing stuff away. _Nice_ stuff, in some
cases, including a Model M. Dutch layout, unfortunately, so I have
some sanding in my future. Also some cleaning. And then either
learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
To my surprise, many people did recognise it as a fine keyboard.
But not to the point that they kept it when new computers, with
new keyboards, were given out.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
[0] I'll take recommendations if anyone has them.
Ben A L Jemmett
> Our friendly sysadmin at work was cleaning out the desks of his
> cases, including a Model M. Dutch layout, unfortunately, so I have
> some sanding in my future. Also some cleaning. And then either
> learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
How big are the differences? The Model Ms I have known and was
unfortunately unable to liberate had two-part keys -- the key itself
and the cap with the engraving. The latter could be swapped as
required.
[Mind you, who needs the engravings anyway?]
--
Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
http://flatpack.microwavepizza.co.uk/
Richard Bos
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:38:30 +0200, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
> > including a Model M. Dutch layout, unfortunately, so I have
> > some sanding in my future. Also some cleaning. And then either
> > learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
>
> > [0] I'll take recommendations if anyone has them.
>
> Don't bother. IIRC the alphanumeric bits are where they should
> be, and while the shifty bits aren't I've found it easy enough
> to get used to just typing US layout on a non-US keyboard.
Myeah, after a while. The real bitch, of course, is when one of your
cow-orkers insists on having the "Dutch"[1] keyboard layout on her own
keyboard[2], and then you have to hack on that keyboard for some time.
Enough time to make it a mighty irritation, not enough time to (this was
in the MS-DOS days) change her Autoexec and reboot.
And then there was the Sun (but see [1]).
Richard
[1] I do believe I've done that rant here already, but I still don't
understand it.
[2] Fair enough, it's hers, she has to work with it all day long.
Richard Bos
> Maarten Wiltink wrote:
> > Our friendly sysadmin at work was cleaning out the desks of his
> > laid-off colleagues and throwing stuff away. Nice stuff, in some
> > cases, including a Model M. Dutch layout, unfortunately, so I have
> > some sanding in my future. Also some cleaning. And then either
> > learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
>
> How big are the differences? The Model Ms I have known and was
> unfortunately unable to liberate had two-part keys -- the key itself
> and the cap with the engraving. The latter could be swapped as
> required.
Yesno. That only works with non-ergonomic keyboards. I've never worked
with a Model M, unfortunately[1], so I don't know whether it's flat, but
on keyboards that are well-designed for large volume typing, the keycaps
are different in shape depending on where on the keyboard they are. And
of course, one or two keys may be a bit larger than the others.
Richard
[1] I had my paws on one once or twice, enough to know that they're
good, not enough to remember details
Richard Bos
> On 2009-08-12, Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > Whatever happened to touch-typing? I am usually looking at the screen when
> > typing, anyway. Sometimes, I have been known to type for short stretches
> > while talking to (and looking at) another person.
>
> Or typing whilst looking at a document that needs to be transcribed.
> Which, fortunately, is a rare case.
For us, maybe. I know people who do that a lot (and used to do it a
_lot_ more than they do nowadays): typists at a newspaper. They are
_good_ at blind typing.
> I know what you mean. My colleagues were amazed at how fast I could
> type in my first job. I was able to get things done on the CLI of the
> product we were using faster than they could click through on the GUI,
> in *spite* of the fact that the CLI was a piss poor attempt.
The women (don't recall a single man) I mention above couldn't handle
the command line, either, but they weren't very surprised when I
mentioned how much quicker it is when you get practiced with it.
Richard
Maarten Wiltink
news:4a8855fd...@news.xs4all.nl...
> Michel Buijsman <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:38:30 +0200, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>>> including a Model M. Dutch layout, unfortunately, so I have
>>> some sanding in my future. Also some cleaning. And then either
>>> learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
>>
>> > [0] I'll take recommendations if anyone has them.
>>
>> Don't bother. IIRC the alphanumeric bits are where they should
>> be, and while the shifty bits aren't I've found it easy enough
>> to get used to just typing US layout on a non-US keybo
ard.
>
> Myeah, after a while.
I've just taken the plunge and it seems to be working out well enough.
In preparation for days following short nights, I've printed out a
layout diagram and taped it to the shelf. After half an hour of
fruitless and increasingly frustrated googling, the epiphany came:
plug in keyboard; type; print. Forehead slapping optional.
The cleaning was similarly enlightening. Turpentine had very little
effect, but those oily tissues work miracles. It's not just clean,
it's positively incandescent.
> The real bitch, of course, is when one of your
> cow-orkers insists on having the "Dutch"[1] keyboard layout on her own
> keyboard[2], and then you have to hack on that keyboard for some time.
She who already had a Model M has that. I don't dare call her a bitch,
though. Not even when she helpfully decided to scratch the glyph off
one of the keycaps today. It was a good thing she decided to stop after
one attempt; it was clearly not working out well. The damage remained
limited to the caret symbol. There is now a very small crater in its
place (or rather, in "{"'s place). I console myself with the thought
that I didn't want the caret there anyway.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Zebee Johnstone
Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
>
> The cleaning was similarly enlightening. Turpentine had very little
> effect, but those oily tissues work miracles. It's not just clean,
> it's positively incandescent.
I use an aerosol gunk designed for cleaning electronics. I go over
the Digital keyboard I use every couple of years with a rag and that
stuff, removing all keycaps and cleaning them and cleaning all the
gunk out.
Zebee
mrob...@worldnet.att.net
> And then either learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
>
Stickers work, but will make the keys feel different. They will also
require replacement at intervals that vary depending on what type of
material you print them on.
There exist venduhs that will sell individual M keycaps. The price is
kind of high and I don't know if they ship to rightpondia, but it may
be an option.
Matt Roberds
Kenneth Brody
> Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:
>> And I get "you still use a command line email client??!!one" (an Ex shop, of
>> course).
>
> Over here, people do s/command line/DOS/ email client, meaning mutt of
> couse. Everything that ain't Windows must be DOS. Especially if it
> isn't colorful.
s/Over here/In most of the Windows world/
It's an uphill battle convincing people that these console applications are,
indeed, full-blown Windows programs, but with a text interface rather than a
GUI.
--
Kenneth Brody
Marc Haber
>It's an uphill battle convincing people that these console applications are,
>indeed, full-blown Windows programs,
Actually, my console applications aren't.
Kenneth Brody
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> It's an uphill battle convincing people that these console applications are,
>> indeed, full-blown Windows programs,
>
> Actually, my console applications aren't.
Well, on non-Windows platforms, I don't call them "console applications".
Of course, YMMV.
If you _are_ on Windows, then what are your "console applications", if not
Windows programs?
--
Kenneth Brody
Richard Bos
Old MS-DOS programs running in the DOS layer underlying Windows.
Richard
Maarten Wiltink
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
[...]
>> If you _are_ on Windows, then what are your "console applications",
>> if not Windows programs?
>
> Old MS-DOS programs running in the DOS layer underlying Windows.
That layer is no longer underneath Windows. Or you are running a
very nostalgic Windows version. And even then, if Windows was
running, DOS programs probably got some sort of virtualisation of
that layer. I don't see how you could show them in a window
otherwise.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Ben A L Jemmett
> "Ben A L Jemmett" <bal.j...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> > How big are the differences? The Model Ms I have known and was
> > unfortunately unable to liberate had two-part keys -- the key itself
> > and the cap with the engraving. The latter could be swapped as
> > required.
>
> Yesno. That only works with non-ergonomic keyboards. I've never worked
> with a Model M, unfortunately[1], so I don't know whether it's flat,
> but on keyboards that are well-designed for large volume typing, the
> keycaps are different in shape depending on where on the keyboard
> they are.
Ah, of course; the way that slipped my mind probably shows both how
well proper keyboards are designed and how much typing I do on
less-ergonomic laptop keyboards!
Chloe
<ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
> Bugger. Now you've reminded me of doing student desktop support.
> International student. From China. With Chinese win98. Chinese
> keyboard settings. Who doesn't speak Dutch. Or English. At all.
>
> Stops you dead in your tracks real quick, that does...
>
I feel your pain of that.
When I worked retail, had a client come in, can we setup his machine to dual
boot.
Win98
Win95(chinese).
Installing windows is sometimes bad enough, installing it with a language
you can't read is more fun.
Chloe
Shmuel Metz
at 09:25 AM, ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) said:
>Old MS-DOS programs running in the DOS layer underlying Windows.
You're running Widows ME? Never mind the coat, I'm getting out *NOW* so
that I don't catch what you have.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
Kenneth Brody
> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Marc Haber wrote:
>>> Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>> It's an uphill battle convincing people that these console applications are,
>>>> indeed, full-blown Windows programs,
>>> Actually, my console applications aren't.
>> Well, on non-Windows platforms, I don't call them "console applications".
>> Of course, YMMV.
>>
>> If you _are_ on Windows, then what are your "console applications", if not
>> Windows programs?
>
> Old MS-DOS programs running in the DOS layer underlying Windows.
<nit>
Well, in that case, they're not "console applications", but "MS-DOS
applications".
</nit>
--
Kenneth Brody
Kenneth Brody
> In <4a89d6b1...@news.xs4all.nl>, on 08/18/2009
> at 09:25 AM, ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) said:
>
>> Old MS-DOS programs running in the DOS layer underlying Windows.
>
> You're running Widows ME? Never mind the coat, I'm getting out *NOW* so
> that I don't catch what you have.
Well, it could be 98 or 95. Or maybe 3.1?
Because, "as everyone knows", NT/XP/2000/2003/Vista don't have any MS-DOS
"underlying Windows", but instead have an MS-DOS emulator which runs within
Windows.
--
Kenneth Brody
Niklas Karlsson
>
> I don't remember whether it was in 95 or 98, but certainly in a version
> I used for a while the orange-on-black "It is now safe to turn off your
> computer" screen was actually a DOS prompt - if you typed "mode co80"
> you'd get usable fullscreen DOS.
>
> Thank heavens this I is no longer U.
You, sir, are an O[0].
Niklas
[0]ptimist.
--
Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using a dotted line. He
caught every other fish.
-- Steven Wright
Joe Zeff
> And the grime patterns. And the bloodstains...
Yes, but those aren't put on by the OEM...or at least, I hope not.
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
I generally support rugged individualism, but only when it is backed
by clue.
Kenneth Brody
> Kenneth Brody wrote:
>
>> Well, it could be 98 or 95. Or maybe 3.1?
>>
>> Because, "as everyone knows", NT/XP/2000/2003/Vista don't have any MS-DOS
>> "underlying Windows", but instead have an MS-DOS emulator which runs within
>> Windows.
>
> I used for a while the orange-on-black "It is now safe to turn off your
> computer" screen was actually a DOS prompt - if you typed "mode co80"
> you'd get usable fullscreen DOS.
>
> Thank heavens this I is no longer U.
A couple of months ago, we had someone bring in their ancient Windows (one
'95 and one '98) boxen to be fixed. Fortunately, we no longer support
anything pre-XP/2K other than pull off data. (We didn't implement this
policy until about a year ago, when we spent way too much time on a '98 box.)
--
Kenneth Brody
Shmuel Metz
at 12:53 PM, Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> said:
>Well, it could be 98 or 95. Or maybe 3.1?
I'll concede that they're better than Windows ME, but still not anything
I'd want to be running.
Richard Bos
> "Richard Bos" <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
> news:4a89d6b1...@news.xs4all.nl...
> > Kenneth Brody <kenb...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> [...]
> >> If you _are_ on Windows, then what are your "console applications",
> >> if not Windows programs?
> >
> > Old MS-DOS programs running in the DOS layer underlying Windows.
>
> That layer is no longer underneath Windows. Or you are running a
> very nostalgic Windows version.
Maybe not technically, but philosophically...
> And even then, if Windows was running, DOS programs probably got some
> sort of virtualisation of that layer. I don't see how you could show
> them in a window otherwise.
All the same, the old program itself is still an MS-DOS program (running
in a shell, sandbox, virtual machine, or what have you), not a Windows
program. Windows console programs exist, but don't run on pure MS-DOS.
Richard
Richard Bos
> Mellowing in my old age, I've already decided to stop getting worked
> up about the Dutch phenomenon of using 'hun' (them) instead of 'ze'/'zij'
> (they) once we're out of the first decade of the new millennium.
ITYF that that's not so much a Dutch phenomenon as a Hollandish one. In
the civilised parts of the country, I don't encounter that error.
Do not make me recite Kees Stip at you.
Richard
Robert Uhl
> Michel Buijsman <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:38:30 +0200, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>> > including a Model M. Dutch layout, unfortunately, so I have
>> > some sanding in my future. Also some cleaning. And then either
>> > learning to type on blank keys, or painting keycaps[0].
>>
>> > [0] I'll take recommendations if anyone has them.
>>
>> Don't bother. IIRC the alphanumeric bits are where they should
>> be, and while the shifty bits aren't I've found it easy enough
>> to get used to just typing US layout on a non-US keyboard.
>
> Myeah, after a while. The real bitch, of course, is when one of your
> cow-orkers insists on having the "Dutch"[1] keyboard layout on her own
> keyboard[2], and then you have to hack on that keyboard for some time.
> Enough time to make it a mighty irritation, not enough time to (this was
> in the MS-DOS days) change her Autoexec and reboot.
Okay, I'll bite--why wouldn't Dutch folks use Dutch keyboard layouts?
Are commonly used UsefulOS keys in the wrong places or missing?
Just seems weird to me not to use the local keyboard style.
[1] NMF
--
Robert A. Uhl
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
Erwan David
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:11:48 -0600, Robert Uhl wrote:
>> Okay, I'll bite--why wouldn't Dutch folks use Dutch keyboard layouts?
>> Are commonly used UsefulOS keys in the wrong places or missing?
>
> Quite.
>
> uggc://ra.jvxvcrqvn.bet/jvxv/Svyr:Arqreynaqfr_gbrgfraobeqvaqryvat_-_grxfg_nyf_cnqra.fit
>
> And besides that, if you can't count on having it everywhere, I'd rather
> not have it anywhere, as those subtle context switches are a pain[0]. US
> layout is everywhere, so I'll stick with that.
>
> [0] Ever tried typing a quick note on a french keyboard?
Yes, I do it every day. And with little training, you can easily
adapt. I even work simultaneously on french and US keyboard...
--
Le travail n'est pas une bonne chose. Si �a l'�tait,
les riches l'auraient accapar�
Maarten Wiltink
news:m3ws4y3...@latakia.octopodial-chrome.com...
[...]
> Okay, I'll bite--why wouldn't Dutch folks use Dutch keyboard layouts?
> Are commonly used UsefulOS keys in the wrong places or missing?
Look it up. It has glyphs I haven't used since the mid-eighties, but
the backslash is hidden away under AltGr-Slash. Most non-alphanumeric
keys are indeed in the wrong place for no obvious reason.
> Just seems weird to me not to use the local keyboard style.
That your local style is the international standard may have some
little influence there. How many different languages can you order
a beer in? I'm up to eight without thinking very hard, without
counting languages almost indistinguishable from Danish or Polish,
and *without even liking most beer very much*.
There are about 20 Americans for every Dutchman, give or take, and
in any event they made keyboards first. The early adopters abroad
will be used to the original layout before localised keyboards can
economically be made. And there is really nothing wrong with the
US-International layout.
The people who care about keyboard layout would seem to fall into two
groups. The first group are system administrators, programmers and
other power user pariahs already used to American keyboards anyway.
The second group were heavy typists used to Dutch-layout typewriters,
and some of them wore suits. With skirts. Of course they had to be
coddled.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Maarten Wiltink
news:863a7l3...@nez-casse.depot.rail.eu.org...
> Michel Buijsman <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> disait le 08/21/09 que :
>> [...] subtle context switches are a pain[0]. ...
>> [0] Ever tried typing a quick note on a french keyboard?
>
> Yes, I do it every day. And with little training, you can easily
> adapt. I even work simultaneously on french and US keyboard...
I'm very pleased to hear that, but will leave it to you. I solved
this particular problem by getting the hell out of Namur, and,
incidentally, not looking at another keyboard again during all that
holiday.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
LP
>
> I even work simultaneously on french and US keyboard...
One hand on each I assume? Or one for hands, one for feet?
-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com
Lionel
> That your local style is the international standard may have some
> little influence there. How many different languages can you order
> a beer in? I'm up to eight without thinking very hard,
Pfft. I point at the tap, look the bartender in the eye, & say "beer
please". It's worked in every country I've ever been to. Hell, it even
works in Queensland.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
David Skinner
> In message <4a84239e$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>, Shmuel Metz
> My CV is a pretty standard affair for the UK, a couple of pages giving
> chronological details of recent jobs and a brief summary of the
> preceding 20 years work. I've never used a one page resume and I've
> never received any when I've been hiring.
That's pretty much my (.uk) experience too - I was always told that a CV
should ideally be two sides of text, not too densely packed. Certainly
no more than three sides. It should cover basic personal and contact
details, education, previous employment, professional qualifications,
brief hobbies and interests, and a couple of referees.
Straight out of University, my CV included details of all my school
qualifications, names and addresses of schools, etc. As I got older, the
early stuff was gradually shortened (but is still in there). To be
honest, though, the last significant rewrite happened when I realised
that it would be awkward to convert my CV from PageMaker 4 format to
something more easily understood when sent electronically, not to
mention a pain in the arse to find a floppy drive to install PageMaker
again.
When we're hiring, we ask that the (fairly comprehensive, four page)
application form should be properly completed, together with a
continuation sheet if required, and a covering letter. If people send
CVs with their applications, they only get looked-at if we're struggling
to decide who to shortlist. We look dimly on application forms littered
with "see attached CV", but will forgive it if the candidate appears to
be promising otherwise. We never hire based-on unsolicited CVs or spam
from pimps.
At the last place, we used to ask for the form, the letter, and the CV.
Richard Gadsden
> In article <LowJ4vO4...@shrdlu.com>, b...@shrdlu.com says...>
>> In message <4a84239e$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>, Shmuel Metz
>
>> My CV is a pretty standard affair for the UK, a couple of pages giving
>> chronological details of recent jobs and a brief summary of the
>> preceding 20 years work. I've never used a one page resume and I've
>> never received any when I've been hiring.
>
> That's pretty much my (.uk) experience too - I was always told that a CV
> should ideally be two sides of text, not too densely packed. Certainly
> no more than three sides. It should cover basic personal and contact
> details, education, previous employment, professional qualifications,
> brief hobbies and interests, and a couple of referees.
I think this is a UK/US thing: CV .uk == Resume .us
The .us term CV is a complete listing of all experience and
qualifications and would be expected to cover the entire time period
(with no gaps) back to high school.
--
Richard Gadsden ric...@gadsden.name
"I disagree with what you say but I will defend to
the death your right to say it" - Attributed to Voltaire
Peter H. Coffin
> "Robert Uhl" <eadm...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:m3ws4y3...@latakia.octopodial-chrome.com...
> [...]
>> Okay, I'll bite--why wouldn't Dutch folks use Dutch keyboard layouts?
>> Are commonly used UsefulOS keys in the wrong places or missing?
>
> Look it up. It has glyphs I haven't used since the mid-eighties, but
> the backslash is hidden away under AltGr-Slash. Most non-alphanumeric
> keys are indeed in the wrong place for no obvious reason.
> The people who care about keyboard layout would seem to fall into two
> groups. The first group are system administrators, programmers and
> other power user pariahs already used to American keyboards anyway.
> The second group were heavy typists used to Dutch-layout typewriters,
> and some of them wore suits. With skirts. Of course they had to be
> coddled.
Concur. Mostly it comes down to "Are you typing in $LC_LANG or are you
typing code?" Even including all my personal faffing around with USENET
and stupid websites, I'm usually at about 60% code in the course of an
average day. And that likes all widgets in the same place and accessable
with no more than one modifier. I'm not even a big fan of the control
key. Guess where it is and what editor I use....
--
Don't use this code for realtime control, for weapons systems, or for
anything else that may put life or limb at hazard. It isn't man-rated,
it isn't really thing-rated, and we don't claim that it's worth a good
G*dDamn for anything at all, at all.
-- Mike Andrews, on Java compilers
Richard Bos
> ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) writes:
>
> > Myeah, after a while. The real bitch, of course, is when one of your
> > cow-orkers insists on having the "Dutch"[1] keyboard layout on her own
> > keyboard[2], and then you have to hack on that keyboard for some time.
> Okay, I'll bite--why wouldn't Dutch folks use Dutch keyboard layouts?
For starters, because it's a "Dutch" keyboard layout, not a Dutch
keyboard layout.
> Are commonly used UsefulOS keys in the wrong places or missing?
Amongst others.
It has many characters that we do not need. It has a pilchard, which
apparently the English use, but which I've never seen in use in the
Netherlands. The section sign, yes, very occasionally, but not the
pilchard[3]. FFS, it even has a cent sign! We write our cents as "c" or
"cent", _never_ as c-slash. _You_ guys do that, and you don't get that
sign on your keyboards - what the fuck is it doing on ours?
Conspicuously missing, on the other hand, are the two most important
keys that we'd have wanted more than other nations: the long f a.k.a.
florin, for the guilder, and the ij-ligature. A low-double-quote mark
would have been nice, too[5]. And yeah, some of the hacking keys are in
the wrong places, but most people wouldn't care about that.
Back in the typewriter days, there _was_ a real Dutch keyboard layout.
Take a look at the "Dutch" layout in your MS-DOS manual[4]. See that
plus sign, to the right of the "l" key? That's where the ij should have
been. That's where it was on the proper Dutch keyboard. I don't recall
where the florin was, but it was there. OTOH, there were no pound signs,
and no guillemets. We didn't need them; we were Dutch, not French,
German, English or USAnian.
So yes, it's useless. It doesn't have what we need, it has what we don't
need, and most importantly, it is gratuitously incompatible with the
pre-existing Dutch typewriter layout. The only person I have ever known
to get used to it is the ex-cow-orker mentioned above.
I don't know who designed it, but he certainly wasn't sufficiently
familiar with the requirements of Dutch typists, nor with the Dutch
typewriter layout. About the only thing which was good about it was that
it had dead keys for typing accented characters, and we could get that
more conveniently by installing the Brazilian[6] keyboard layout.
> Just seems weird to me not to use the local keyboard style.
If, back when they were introduced, we could have had _real_ Dutch
keyboards, not said pseudo-Dutch monstrosity, that would probably have
been much more popular than it currently is.
Richard
[3] We tend to go for herrings instead.
[4] Surely you kept one?
[5] And thereby hangs yet another rant, partly about stupid Limeys and
Yankees but mostly about even more stupid and careless Cheeseheads.
[6] Now ironically called "US-International"
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>> That your local style is the international standard may have some
>> little influence there. How many different languages can you order
>> a beer in? I'm up to eight without thinking very hard,
>
> Pfft. I point at the tap, look the bartender in the eye, & say "beer
> please". It's worked in every country I've ever been to. Hell, it even
> works in Queensland.
But you had to grunt there, to get your point across.
--
TimC
If the plural of moose is meese the singular of sheep must be shoop.
--Hetta on RHOD
Maarten Wiltink
[...]
> Back in the typewriter days, there _was_ a real Dutch keyboard layout.
> ij should have been. That's where it was on the proper Dutch keyboard.
It may have been next to the zero. But let's not forget that ij-lig
was already commonly typed 'ij' on typewriters, and nobody thought it
strange to see 'Hfl' instead of the florin symbol.
And let's not forget all the other things that were wrong with Dutch
typewriters as well. The absence of '1' (use 'l' instead). The absence
of '!' (use apos+period instead).
On the other hand, there was a '�', probably because the alternative
of comma+c looked _really awful_, in addition to requiring a backspace
which was even heavier than the dead keys. Never mind that it's a
French letter, not Dutch. This layout was probably designed back when
diplomats still spoke French, and the Turkish Arabic, so nobody missed
'�'.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
mikea
> On 2009-08-21, Roger Burton West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>> Michel Buijsman wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, US intl being the "standard"[0] keymap in .nl is one of my peeves.
>>
>> Could be worse. I was told by a Russian that there are three "standard"
>> typewriter layouts in use in different parts of Russia, all of which
>> have made it onto computers.
>
> And you believed them? There was the other standard typewriter
> layout, but it went away in 1917 with letters "fita" and "yat".
>
> There are different computer keyboard layouts thanks in part
> to clueless programmers (the good thing about standards and all
> that) and in part -- to clueless standards committeemembers
> (let's standardize on the layout that's different from the ones
> that already exist).
>
> Anyway, they differ in the placement of punctuation marks and
> letters like hard sign and e-diaeresis. The former can be very
> annoying[0], the other is never used by anybody in their right
> mind anyway[1].
>
> [0] Easily fixed by use of stickers and non-h4x0r3d software.
> [1] Insert unca Mike's pet peeve.
I wish that more Russian writers would use, and that more Russian
(human, not program) editors would preserve, the diaeresis in the
e-diaeresis character. It makes visible the difference between
"Potemkin", as altogether too many Americans pronounce it, and the
correct "Potyomkin".
To which of my myriad pet peeves were you referring, gospodin?
--
"Last I checked, it wasn't the power cord for the Clue Generator that
was sticking up your ass." - John Novak, rasfwrj