Good Suggestion from another group
Mickey Chandler
Lots will be needed.
--
Mickey Chandler
David Scheidt
: Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
: Lots will be needed.
Even if you aren't in America, go give blood if you're able. There's a
shortage most places most of the time. It's easy, it'll do someone else
some good, and it makes it easier to get drunk.
--
dsch...@tumbolia.com
Bipedalism is only a fad.
Paul Tomko
Mickey Chandler <mic...@telocity.com> wrote:
>Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
>Lots will be needed.
Yes, about 8 pints from each of the ones responsible would do for a start.
Paul
--
Paul Tomko pa...@tomkoinc.com http://www.tomkoinc.com
10000+ Humorous Quotes http://www.tomkoinc.com/quotes.html
"Even if you can deceive people about a product through misleading statements,
sooner or later the product will speak for itself." - Hajime Karatsu
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Paul Tomko" <to...@earth.execpc.com> wrote in message
news:3b9e380a$0$28124$272e...@news.execpc.com...
> In article <Xns91196A7...@216.227.56.89>,
> Mickey Chandler <mic...@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
> >Lots will be needed.
>
> Yes, about 8 pints from each of the ones responsible would do for a start.
Taken by force, preferably. Maybe a high power suction pump?
Now, scratch that. We need HUMAN blood. Anything that would do
that isn't human. Isn't even up to cockroach level, IMAO.
RwP
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Roger Burton West" <ro...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in message
news:20010911172031....@firedrake.org...
> In article <3b9e36c4$1...@spamkiller.newsgroups.com>,
> Ralph Wade Phillips <ral...@consultant.com> wrote:
>
> > Now, scratch that. We need HUMAN blood. Anything that would do
> >that isn't human. Isn't even up to cockroach level, IMAO.
>
> That, sir, is a perfect demonstration of the problem.
What, that someone who would hijack a plane with innocent people and
use it as a bomb in a military attack on a non-military target is less than
human, or that I feel that they are less than human?
RwP
Matthew Garrett
> What, that someone who would hijack a plane with innocent people and
> use it as a bomb in a military attack on a non-military target is less than
> human, or that I feel that they are less than human?
They've got 46 chromosomes, 4 limbs and different morals to you. Which
do you think is more likely?
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Matthew Garrett" <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote in
message news:slrn9psfq5...@vavatch.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
> In article <3b9e3d17$1...@spamkiller.newsgroups.com>, Ralph Wade Phillips
wrote:
>
> > What, that someone who would hijack a plane with innocent people
and
> > use it as a bomb in a military attack on a non-military target is less
than
> > human, or that I feel that they are less than human?
>
> They've got 46 chromosomes, 4 limbs and different morals to you. Which
> do you think is more likely?
In your case, the latter.
But think carefully - what if it was YOU in the WTC that day. Would
that make it all OK?
It's not that they feel differently than me, it's just the coward's
way they show it.
Come after me with a gun, hey, I don't like it, but at least you're
honest. Hijack a plane and kill innocent people - that's not human, no
matter WHAT the chromosome count.
(BTW - By your logic, WHEN we finally discover that dolphins are
intelligent, they won't be worth being treated right since they don't have
the proper number of chromosomes. Think about that carefully - "Human" is
as human does, IMAO.)
RwP
mikeb
"Matthew Garrett" <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote in
message news:slrn9psfq5...@vavatch.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
: In article <3b9e3d17$1...@spamkiller.newsgroups.com>, Ralph Wade
Phillips wrote:
:
: > What, that someone who would hijack a plane with innocent
people and
: > use it as a bomb in a military attack on a non-military target is
less than
: > human, or that I feel that they are less than human?
:
: They've got 46 chromosomes, 4 limbs and different morals to you.
Which
: do you think is more likely?
:
The sad truth is that they have demonstrated that they are Very human.
Mike
Matthew Garrett
> But think carefully - what if it was YOU in the WTC that day. Would
> that make it all OK?
I've been through one major terrorist incident in my life. I want those
responsible brought to justice for what they did, but I don't consider
them subhuman.
(And no, I'm not going to engage in a "My major terrorist incident is
bigger than yours". If you want to know, you can probably find out)
> (BTW - By your logic, WHEN we finally discover that dolphins are
> intelligent, they won't be worth being treated right since they don't have
> the proper number of chromosomes. Think about that carefully - "Human" is
> as human does, IMAO.)
The chromosomal number is insignificant. They were born to human
parents, they're almost certainly capable of successfully breeding with
other humans to produce fertile offspring, they'll have had arrays of
tandem repeats in the right places. By any definition, they're human.
What is different is that they have very different ideas about
acceptable behaviour to you, me and most other members of society. If
you're going to start classifying everybody who fits into that category
as sub-human, you'll end up claiming that an awfully large number of
people with a wide and interesting collection of mental conditions are
inferior.
Christ. What the fuck is it with this sort of situation that makes
people lose all grasp of reason? You're human. You're supposed to have
the ability to engage in logical thought rather than resort to
instinctive hate. Putting those responsible in the category of
"non-human" just means you'll be less able to cope with the fact that
humans are capable of doing utterly stupid things when they think
they've got a good enough reason for it.
What worries me about this sort of thing is that I generally find the
reaction significantly more sickening than the act itself. I'm quite
surprised by this, given that I thought that I'd lost all faith in
humanity some time ago.
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Paul Tomko
Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote:
>
>Christ. What the fuck is it with this sort of situation that makes
>people lose all grasp of reason? You're human. You're supposed to have
>the ability to engage in logical thought rather than resort to
>instinctive hate.
People haven't lost the sense of reason, it was taken forcefully from them.
As for me, I am physically ill after hearing this. I work about three blocks
from the Sears Tower, which is probably far enough, but still, tensions
were high at work. Most everyone went home, including myself. The Sears
Tower, Hancock Center and most fedearl offices were evacuated. Even the museums
were evacuated. The question is: How do they know it is safe to return
tomorrow? Or the next day? Or ever? How can we say it is safe to have
air travel tomorrow? Or ever again? I'm not sure I want to go back to
work tomorrow. I've given serious, serious thought about giving it all up,
selling my house and buying a lttle place out in the middle of nowhere,
where hopefully the big bad world won't be able to get to me.
I am mostly frustrated, worried, and yes, scared. This is, of course,
exactly what they want. Mostly, all day long, I thought of my eight
month old girl at home, and the twins on the way. What kind of a world
are they going to have to live in? Is there even going to be a world
left. I cam home today and saw little things that I don't notice. The green
grass in the backyard, the blue sky. A grasshopper on my driveway. What does
it say when the sight of a simple grasshopper makes a grown man cry?
Steve VanDevender
> How do they know it is safe to return tomorrow?
I share with one of my friends the persistent feeling that the universe
is out to get us, unlike most of the rest of the people we know who seem
not to be aware of just how dangerous and indifferent the universe is.
One of the most eloquent things he's said was:
"We live in the interface between radioactive molten rock and hard
vacuum and we worry about safety."
Of course, this latest disaster was a lot more personal than an asteroid
strike or a nearby supernova. The idea that humans would use passenger
aircraft full of passengers as kinetic energy weapons and fuel bombs is
too sick for words.
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://jcomm.uoregon.edu/~stevev
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
"bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!" -- the Swedish BOFH
Steve Sobol
>Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
>Lots will be needed.
<yes-I-know-this-is-ui/>
http://www.redcross.org/ 1-800-Give-Life
--
JustThe.net LLC - Steve "Web Dude" Sobol, CTO - sjs...@JustThe.net
Donate a portion of your monthly ISP bill to your favorite charity or
non-profit organization! E-mail me for details.
Eric The Read
> From 'Mickey Chandler':
> >Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
> >Lots will be needed.
>
> <yes-I-know-this-is-ui/>
No it fucking ISN'T. It's good, helpful, *USEFUL* info, that has
absofuckinglutely NOTHING to do with using fucking samba as a fucking
interop solution for C***rC**e, and convincing the numbnuts at irRational
Support that just because HP calls it CIFS doesn't mean it isn't really
samba under the hood.
I appreciate your posting this. Just don't call it UI, 'coz it isn't.
> http://www.redcross.org/ 1-800-Give-Life
If you're going to give blood, make sure you call your local hospitals
before you head down-- at last count, both local hospitals had 3+-hour
waitlists for blood donations.
-=Eric
--
Surrealism is // Like a quick icy jump into // Cold lobster trousers
-- entrippy <entr...@labyrinth.net.au>
Mike Andrews
:> http://www.redcross.org/ 1-800-Give-Life
Also 1-800-RED-CROS, IIRC. That's 1-800-733-2767.
It looks as though the Red Cross server is crashed; it isn't
trsponding to traceroute, and I get "Connection Refused" from
NutScrape.
: If you're going to give blood, make sure you call your local hospitals
: before you head down-- at last count, both local hospitals had 3+-hour
: waitlists for blood donations.
Here the waitlist is closer to 8 hours, unless you have type-O
blood, in which case you're taken right in.
--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
-- Gene "spaf" Spafford (1992)
Jamie Bowden
> From 'Mickey Chandler':
> >Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
> >Lots will be needed.
>
> <yes-I-know-this-is-ui/>
>
> http://www.redcross.org/ 1-800-Give-Life
Those of us in the DC area are asked to call first, as all Red Cross
centers are pretty much already over capacity. Wait till Thursday or
Friday, keep the flow steady.
Jamie Bowden
--
"It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold"
Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur"
Iain Bowen <ala...@alaric.org.uk>
David P. Murphy
> Christ. What the fuck is it with this sort of situation that makes
> people lose all grasp of reason? You're human. You're supposed to have
> the ability to engage in logical thought rather than resort to
> instinctive hate. Putting those responsible in the category of
> "non-human" just means you'll be less able to cope with the fact that
> humans are capable of doing utterly stupid things when they think
> they've got a good enough reason for it.
I want to kill the people who are killing people like me.
They're not going to stop. Self-defense is reasonable.
It's instinctive, but it's not hate. I want to live.
Do we really need to thrash this out *here*? Does anyone actually
think that, just because this is the monastery, someone's viewpoint
will actually CHANGE by reading someone else's post?
ok
dpm
--
David P. Murphy http://www.myths.com/~dpm/
systems programmer ftp://ftp.myths.com
mailto:d...@myths.com (personal)
COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO mailto:Murphy...@emc.com (work)
David P. Murphy
> In article <3b9e36c4$1...@spamkiller.newsgroups.com>,
> Ralph Wade Phillips <ral...@consultant.com> wrote:
>> Now, scratch that. We need HUMAN blood. Anything that would do
>>that isn't human. Isn't even up to cockroach level, IMAO.
> That, sir, is a perfect demonstration of the problem.
Your sense of scale is somewhat off --- a perfect demonstration would be
nuking the northern half of Afghanistan. RwP is just talking.
Steve Sobol
>No it fucking ISN'T.
Thanks for the clarification, then.
>I appreciate your posting this. Just don't call it UI, 'coz it isn't.
>> http://www.redcross.org/ 1-800-Give-Life
>
>If you're going to give blood, make sure you call your local hospitals
>before you head down-- at last count, both local hospitals had 3+-hour
>waitlists for blood donations.
And here in Cleveland, a spokesman for the local RC chapter said that the
need is continuous, so the donations should be spaced out if possible.
Upshot: If you can't get to the Bloodmobile or Red Cross office today, wait
a day or two; your blood will still be needed.
I will also pass along another URL that someone posted in another group:
http://www.redcross.org/donate/give/
note: will probably load slowly, as I'm sure their site is experiening the
/. effect.
Earl Grey
> The idea that humans would use passenger aircraft full of passengers
> as kinetic energy weapons and fuel bombs is too sick for words.
"Richard Bachman".
Tom Clancey.
Well, yeah. In both cases, the only human on the plane was the "pilot".
Still, this reminds me SO MUCH of the movie, "The Seige".
It's bout the only time I can remember Bruce Willis playing a Bad Guy[tm].
--
They tell me that you're going to try posting to Alt.Sysadmin.Recovery.
It's a Magnificent Idea; A Daring and Splendid Idea! It will be FUN!
Assuming you're not vaporized, dissected, or otherwise killed in an
assortment of supremely horrible and painful ways! Exciting, Isn't It?!
Gary S. Callison
: I am mostly frustrated, worried, and yes, scared. This is, of course,
: month old girl at home, and the twins on the way. What kind of a world
: are they going to have to live in? Is there even going to be a world
: left. I cam home today and saw little things that I don't notice. The
: green grass in the backyard, the blue sky. A grasshopper on my
: driveway. What does it say when the sight of a simple grasshopper makes
: a grown man cry?
I woke up around 4:30 this afternoon, and turned on the TV. I then turned
on the computer, responded to a few worried "you weren't in DC, were you?"
emails, and talked to the wife and counted noses on the other DC friends
and family, rearranged a few business plans (no, I will not be flying to
DC tomorrow morning, can we reschedule this?) and made it to my 5:00
appointment about an hour late.
Driving to the office after that appointment was strange. Business got
chucked out the window and we basically spent an hour drinking beer and
going "What the fuck?" while the TV continued to show instant replays,
political speeches, and strange reactions from the Mideast and Kabul
Afghanistan. We decided I could come back later- especially if I'm not
going home to DC for another week- and I left. As I'm driving back to
the office, the car radio played "November Rain".
I hate Guns and Roses. Always have. The fact that I look like Axl Rose has
not helped any. But I left it on.
And as I'm listening to the song and thinking about Axl Rose, I see two
housewives with one small child between them, walking their dogs. This is
the picture of today's events that I choose to keep: twelve hours after
one of the most horrific terrorist events ever, two middle-aged women, a
small boy, and two dogs were standing on a streetcorner in Wheaton
Illinois, talking and waiting for the light to change.
This has been an unspeakable tragedy, make no bones about it. My heart
goes out to everyone who lost loved ones. As I said in another group "Do
what you think you should. Pray, if you're the sort of person who does
that, or give blood, if you have any, etc". But in most of America: right
now your wife is with your kid, out walking your dog, and talking with the
neighbor.
The universe has changed today, but it doesn't have to become a place
ruled by fear and animosity. Life will go on, largely driven by how
you choose to live it, and allowing faceless cowards who kill innocent
people to dictate that to you is IMNSHO a mistake.
--
Huey
Andreas Buzh Skau
Inquisition in the usenet post <news:Xns91196A7...@216.227.56.89>
> Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
> Lots will be needed.
Ack, this is an important duty of anyone able, so round up your lusers right
now and have them bring their own buckets.
--
Buzh, Pro Bono Gigolo.
Never mind that, my lad,
I wish to complain about this parrot.
Zebee Johnstone
Paul Tomko <to...@earth.execpc.com> wrote:
>month old girl at home, and the twins on the way. What kind of a world
>are they going to have to live in? Is there even going to be a world
>left. I cam home today and saw little things that I don't notice. The green
>grass in the backyard, the blue sky. A grasshopper on my driveway. What does
>it say when the sight of a simple grasshopper makes a grown man cry?
>
Many years ago, I asked Mum about the time she lived in Chicago.
She was a lab tech married to a PhD student, no money. They were the
only white folk in a block of cold water walk up flats near the railyards.
She said that during some of the nastier race riots, they were
escorted home by campus police, and that knowing that as you walked
out of your door in the morning you might be knocked on the head
made you treasure every day.
Then came the Cuban Missile Crisis. She was 4 months pregnant with
me, had a 5yo daughter and was living next to a major nuclear target.
Made her even more determined to live each day fully.
She's still doing it, 40 years later. Nothing gets put off, she still
treasures each day.
SHe doesn't let anything defeat her.
If when I'm her age, I have half her energy, I'll have twice what I do
now.
Consider that grasshopper a pointer.
Zebee
Arvid Grøtting
> Think about that carefully - "Human" is as human does, IMAO.
The sad thing is that in this context, terrorism and war, along with
some other atrocities, is what "human does". As opposed to animals.
And the feeling that some people are sub-human may be exactly what's
required for someone to do a terrorist act. Let's not descend to that
level; not now.
--
(let (hh mm ss)
(do () (nil) (multiple-value-setq (ss mm hh) (get-decoded-time))
(format t "~C~@R ~@R ~@R "
#\return hh mm ss) (sleep 1)))
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <Xns91196A7...@216.227.56.89>, on 09/11/2001
at 03:28 PM, "Mickey Chandler" <mic...@telocity.com> said:
>Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do
>so. Lots will be needed.
I'm still waiting to see whether I'm allowed to. The standard forms
ask about heart problems, and I've been diagnosed as having something
called WPW syndrome.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain acm dot org user shmuel to contact me.
"He was born with a gift of laughter,
and a sense that the world was mad."
Peter N. M. Hansteen
> Even if you aren't in America, go give blood if you're able. There's a
> shortage most places most of the time. It's easy, it'll do someone else
> some good, and it makes it easier to get drunk.
In general, certainly.
OTOH, some of us have been told to donate only when they come begging
for it and not drop in at regular 3-month intervals like most blood
donors here.
"Your blood type is too damn rare around these parts to
be generally useful, sir".
Apparently some of my previously donated pints had gone past the "use
by" date and had to be thrown away. For some strange reason, when they
finally called me in and I set to sneezing rather heavily a few
minutes before they were about to tap me, they were somewhat
unpleased.
--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
Arvid Grøtting
> dsch...@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) writes:
>
>> Even if you aren't in America, go give blood if you're able. There's a
>> shortage most places most of the time. It's easy, it'll do someone else
>> some good, and it makes it easier to get drunk.
>
> In general, certainly.
Indeed. It also could have other beneficial side-effects. And the
side effects from from the Fe tablets aren't all that annoying -- not
to me, anyway.
> OTOH, some of us have been told to donate only when they come begging
> for it and not drop in at regular 3-month intervals like most blood
> donors here.
>
> "Your blood type is too damn rare around these parts to
> be generally useful, sir".
AB- or something?
> Apparently some of my previously donated pints had gone past the "use
> by" date and had to be thrown away. For some strange reason, when they
> finally called me in and I set to sneezing rather heavily a few
> minutes before they were about to tap me, they were somewhat
> unpleased.
They often are. Usually when it's time for me to give blood, I either
get a cold or sacrifice blood to one of the swervers (or sometimes to
recovery), so that I have to postpone my appointment.
Too many antibodies isn't always a good thing, it seems.
--
Arvid
BTW: What's the recommended pinout for a 400V TP etherkiller?
Wayne Pascoe
> People haven't lost the sense of reason, it was taken forcefully
> from them. As for me, I am physically ill after hearing this. I
> work about three blocks from the Sears Tower, which is probably far
> enough, but still, tensions were high at work. Most everyone went
> home, including myself. The Sears Tower, Hancock Center and most
> fedearl offices were evacuated. Even the museums were evacuated. The
> question is: How do they know it is safe to return tomorrow? Or the
I have so very little to add that hasn't already been said. But I have
an answer to the question of safety that keeps me happy. It may not
help or console you, but for me and some of my extended family, it
works.
Its never safe. Every breath you take, every action you make moves you
one step closer to death. When your time is up, it is up. Be it a road
accident, heart attack, or large plane through your building, everyone
dies.
The important thing (and sometimes I lose sight of this) is to live as
much as you can while you're alive. Let the lemmings worship the
almighty dollar and waste their lives in pursuit of the 'burb house
and 2.4 children. Live. Take chances. One day one of them may kill you,
but at least you'll be truly alive until the very last. If you don't
die having fun, you'll die miserable.
just my 2p. Just what kept me sane through more funerals than I care
to remember.
--
- Wayne Pascoe
| Win if you can. Lose if you must.
wa...@penguinpowered.org.uk | But always cheat!
http://www.penguinpowered.org.uk |
Arthur van der Harg
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, David P. Murphy wrote:
> Your sense of scale is somewhat off --- a perfect demonstration would be
> nuking the northern half of Afghanistan. RwP is just talking.
That would be a classic mistake, bombing the wrong target. The Taliban are
in the southern half...
Arthur
Paul S. Brown
>Steve VanDevender wrote:
>
>> The idea that humans would use passenger aircraft full of passengers
>> as kinetic energy weapons and fuel bombs is too sick for words.
>
>"Richard Bachman".
>Tom Clancey.
>
>Well, yeah. In both cases, the only human on the plane was the "pilot".
>
>Still, this reminds me SO MUCH of the movie, "The Seige".
>It's bout the only time I can remember Bruce Willis playing a Bad Guy[tm].
>
For a scarily likely outcome to this atrocity try Dale Brown - Storming
Heaven.
Paul
--
Being a geek is a state of mind
Being paid to be a geek is a state of utopia
- p...@geekstuff.co.uk
Kevin Martin
news:Pine.OSX.4.31.01091...@kapu.net:
> Tom Clancey.
>
> Well, yeah. In both cases, the only human on the plane was the "pilot".
If the f-ckers *had* to read a Tom Clancy novel, why couldn't they read
the chapter where the Palestinian teenagers sat down and started singing
"We Shall Overcome"? If they only realized he was telling the truth when
he said THAT was the one weapon that could destroy Israel...!
Even after being seven blocks and twenty minutes away, there is a part of
me that thinks about our relationship with Japan sixty years after Pearl
Harbor, and says "Okay. You wanted our attention. You have grievances.
Fine. You have our attention. We require one thing of you, and that is
that you now learn to live in peace with your brothers. Consider the
scales balanced, put down your weapons, forgive and be forgiven."
Or else.
> Still, this reminds me SO MUCH of the movie, "The Seige".
> It's bout the only time I can remember Bruce Willis playing a Bad
> Guy[tm].
Couple of the guys I ork with -- both gentlemen "of color" -- mentioned
that flick. I hadn't seen it, but heard enough about to feel very ungood
about the notion, and to put myself more in their shoes than usual.
David P. Murphy
Consider me corrected; I was sure I had heard "northern" but I
wasn't taking notes.
And in response to an email I received, allow me to point out that
the context of my post was "a perfect demo of THE WRONG THING TO DO".
Luser thought I was /advocating/ dropping nukes!
Chris Klein
Earl Grey <bo...@kapu.net> wrote:
>Still, this reminds me SO MUCH of the movie, "The Seige".
>It's bout the only time I can remember Bruce Willis playing a Bad Guy[tm].
The Jackal also comes to mind - Willis was an effectively creepy
Bad Guy[tm] in that one too.
I was almost going to say "Enemy at the Gates".. for some reason my
minds eye saw Willis in Major Koenig's uniform, instead of Ed Harris.
Oops.
--Chris
Today is a good day. Not because anything wonderful is happening, so
much, but because my definition of a 'bad day' has been revised.
Jahn Rentmeister
> What, that someone who would hijack a plane with innocent people and
> use it as a bomb in a military attack on a non-military target is less than
> human, or that I feel that they are less than human?
The problem lies in the notion to think that some people are less than
human. That notion is bad. Trust me on this, I'm a German.
You seem to assume that the people who did this have the same information as
you have. They don't. You are missing a large piece of the whole picture,
and they are missing a large piece. They do probably not enjoy a
well-functioning, free press, and the piece they are missing may be bigger
than yours, but that doesn't say much. They have very little control
over how much information they are missing, and you have only little more.
They clearly are not less than human. Rather the opposite: Given the right
circumstances, someone with sufficient resources could probably make every
human do the exact same thing, including you and me.
Jahn
--
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ "Why do we have to hide from the police, Daddy?" | Truths: _/
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Omri Schwarz
> Grr ...
>
> "Roger Burton West" <ro...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in message
> news:20010911172031....@firedrake.org...
> > In article <3b9e36c4$1...@spamkiller.newsgroups.com>,
> > Ralph Wade Phillips <ral...@consultant.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Now, scratch that. We need HUMAN blood. Anything that would do
> > >that isn't human. Isn't even up to cockroach level, IMAO.
> >
> > That, sir, is a perfect demonstration of the problem.
>
> What, that someone who would hijack a plane with innocent people and
> use it as a bomb in a military attack on a non-military target is less than
> human, or that I feel that they are less than human?
"Human being" is a title that must be earned,
and can be lost.
--
Omri Schwarz --- ocs...@mit.edu ('h' before war)
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr
Felix von Leitner
> "Human being" is a title that must be earned, and can be lost.
You, Omri, are a fascist.
Why do people like you not learn from history?
Is it something genetic or is it just your bad upbringing?
Matthew Garrett
> "Human being" is a title that must be earned,
> and can be lost.
Children aren't born human?
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Omri Schwarz
> Thus spake Omri Schwarz (ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu):
> > "Human being" is a title that must be earned, and can be lost.
>
> You, Omri, are a fascist.
Man, it's getting pretty damn easy
to get that title. Makes it cheap, no?
If anything separates us from the animals it's
that we are expected to abide by certain rules.
Those who insist on crossing that separation
I reserve the right to call animals.
> Why do people like you not learn from history?
> Is it something genetic or is it just your bad upbringing?
--
Omri Schwarz
> In article <oct8zfk...@no-knife.mit.edu>, Omri Schwarz wrote:
>
> > "Human being" is a title that must be earned,
> > and can be lost.
>
> Children aren't born human?
Yes, but then they reach age 2.
Matthew Garrett
> If anything separates us from the animals it's
> that we are expected to abide by certain rules.
> Those who insist on crossing that separation
> I reserve the right to call animals.
Which rule is it that you think has been broken here? Never kill
innocent people? Never kill a large number of innocent people? Never
kill a large number of innocent people without what you believe to be a
reasonable excuse? Never kill a large number of innocent people without
what the majority of humanity would believe to be a reasonable excuse?
Some variation on the above?
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Matthew Garrett
> Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> writes:
>> Children aren't born human?
>
> Yes, but then they reach age 2.
How does a 2 year old earn the right to be human?
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Omri Schwarz
> In article <oct8zfk...@no-knife.mit.edu>, Omri Schwarz wrote:
>
> > If anything separates us from the animals it's
> > that we are expected to abide by certain rules.
> > Those who insist on crossing that separation
> > I reserve the right to call animals.
>
> Which rule is it that you think has been broken here? Never kill
> innocent people? Never kill a large number of innocent people? Never
Never purposely target a large number
of innocent people at a time of peace.
> kill a large number of innocent people without what you believe to be a
> reasonable excuse? Never kill a large number of innocent people without
> what the majority of humanity would believe to be a reasonable excuse?
> Some variation on the above?
>
> --
> Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
--
Omri Schwarz
> In article <octy9nk...@no-knife.mit.edu>, Omri Schwarz wrote:
> > Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> writes:
> >> Children aren't born human?
> >
> > Yes, but then they reach age 2.
>
> How does a 2 year old earn the right to be human?
Reach the age of 3.
>
> --
> Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Matthew Garrett
> Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> writes:
>> innocent people? Never kill a large number of innocent people? Never
>
> Never purposely target a large number
> of innocent people at a time of peace.
Ah. Does feeling that there are situations where this would be justified
make me bad and evil?
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Omri Schwarz
> In article <octr8tc...@no-knife.mit.edu>, Omri Schwarz wrote:
> > Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> writes:
> >> Which rule is it that you think has been broken here? Never kill
> >> innocent people? Never kill a large number of innocent people? Never
> >
> > Never purposely target a large number
> > of innocent people at a time of peace.
>
> Ah. Does feeling that there are situations where this would be justified
> make me bad and evil?
Fuck it. I'll let Shmuel do the pilpul here.
Zebee Johnstone
Felix von Leitner <usenet-...@fefe.de> wrote:
>Thus spake Omri Schwarz (ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu):
>> "Human being" is a title that must be earned, and can be lost.
>
>You, Omri, are a fascist.
Umm. no. He's saying nothing about the state.
>
>Why do people like you not learn from history?
BEcause they think with their emotions?
Unfortunately, it's a very human thing to say "not one of us, OK to
kill", happens with all territorial animals.
THe idea is that civilisation extends that, that the more civilised
you are (living in cities...) the wider you extend the "like us"
boundary.
Trouble is, that as soon as somoene does something you think makes
them not "like us" the instincts kick in. Civilisation is supposed to
teach people to be very inclusive, to have very few acts or ideas that
make someone "not like us".
I think it's very silly to define "human being" as some kind of
activity test. Or race test...
Better to stick to rule of law, not tribal/species language.
Zebee
Earl Grey
> What does it say when the sight of a simple grasshopper makes a grown
> man cry?
It says that despite the insanity in parts,
there are things RIGHT with the world.
And those things deserve to be protected from that insanity.
Carefully.
Someone has already quoted Nietzsche in this regard.
--
They tell me that you're going to try posting to Alt.Sysadmin.Recovery.
It's a Magnificent Idea; A Daring and Splendid Idea! It will be FUN!
Assuming you're not vaporized, dissected, or otherwise killed in an
assortment of supremely horrible and painful ways! Exciting, Isn't It?!
Earl Grey
> If the f-ckers *had* to read a Tom Clancy novel, why couldn't they read
> the chapter where the Palestinian teenagers sat down and started singing
> "We Shall Overcome"?
Indeed.
But that's the root of the problem, yes?
> If they only realized he was telling the truth when
> he said THAT was the one weapon that could destroy Israel...!
Maybe not destroy, but certainly change the shape of the "Problem".
Perhaps into something that could be resolved.
But it's ONLY fiction.
> > Still, this reminds me SO MUCH of the movie, "The Seige".
> > It's bout the only time I can remember Bruce Willis playing a Bad
> > Guy[tm].
>
> Couple of the guys I ork with -- both gentlemen "of color" -- mentioned
> that flick. I hadn't seen it, but heard enough about to feel very ungood
> about the notion, and to put myself more in their shoes than usual.
Watch it. "That's an order." (;-)
c...@nospam.netunix.com
Some rare-groups donors in .uk wre asked to stand by, but it
seems there were not enough survivors to require large blood
supplies.
--
From the quill of Chris Newport G4JCI, RCC, ex ZS6N.
If you want my real address go figure it out from the headers or
bugger off, keep your shit to yourself, and boil your head.
Spammers will be educated with a chainsaw.
Zebee Johnstone
Omri Schwarz <ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> wrote:
>Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> writes:
>
>> In article <octy9nk...@no-knife.mit.edu>, Omri Schwarz wrote:
>> > Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> writes:
>> >> Children aren't born human?
>> >
>> > Yes, but then they reach age 2.
>>
>> How does a 2 year old earn the right to be human?
>
>Reach the age of 3.
>
Ah OK, so between the 2nd and 3rd birthday parties we harvest them and
tin them up for dogfood?
Is there enough skin on a 2 and a half year old to make even a small
lampshade?
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
Earl Grey <bo...@kapu.net> wrote:
>Kevin Martin wrote:
>
>> If the f-ckers *had* to read a Tom Clancy novel, why couldn't they read
>> the chapter where the Palestinian teenagers sat down and started singing
>> "We Shall Overcome"?
>
>Indeed.
>
> But that's the root of the problem, yes?
>
>> If they only realized he was telling the truth when
>> he said THAT was the one weapon that could destroy Israel...!
>
>Maybe not destroy, but certainly change the shape of the "Problem".
>Perhaps into something that could be resolved.
>But it's ONLY fiction.
And it's why people consider Ghandi to be so allfired amazing. He got
people to do that.
Consider Britain trying to fight WWII with Tony BLair instead of
Churchill. Without a Ghandi, can the Palestinians manage to change
their thinking enough to sit and sing? The leader has to be there.
They are caught in a terrible cycle, and a strong culture. Both
sides. Lawrence said that the semites (by which he meant arabs)
thought only in black and white, and I think for non-violence to work
you have to be able to see shades of grey and see your opponents as
people not boogeymen.
What the Palestinians need is someone as respected as GHandi who can
do that for them.
But their religion, unlike the Hindu "holy poverty" thing doesn't seem
to have a way for such a person to appear. ghandi used that meme as a
big part of his power.
Zebee
David P. Murphy
> They have very little control
> over how much information they are missing, and you have only little more.
Well, they were certainly in .us for a significant amount of time,
so they did have an opportunity to fill in any blanks. Doubtless
they felt that there were no empty spaces in their picture.
Zebee Johnstone
David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>Jahn Rentmeister <ren...@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
>
>> They have very little control
>> over how much information they are missing, and you have only little more.
>
>Well, they were certainly in .us for a significant amount of time,
>so they did have an opportunity to fill in any blanks. Doubtless
>they felt that there were no empty spaces in their picture.
>
Not, alas, alone in that.
As posts here and elsewhere have shown.
It's a well known thing about a prejudice. The things you see that
contradict it count for little, the things you see that reinforce it
count for a lot.
THis is especially true if your normal habit of mind is not one of
questioning or analysis.
We can't know what prejudices they had till we know who they were.
Nor do we know how much time they were here for.
Zebee
Shalon Wood
> In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:02:28 -0000
> David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
> >Jahn Rentmeister <ren...@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
> >
> >> They have very little control
> >> over how much information they are missing, and you have only little more.
> >
> >Well, they were certainly in .us for a significant amount of time,
> >so they did have an opportunity to fill in any blanks. Doubtless
> >they felt that there were no empty spaces in their picture.
> >
>
> Not, alas, alone in that.
>
> As posts here and elsewhere have shown.
In yourself as well.
From what I've seen from you over the last 48 hours, you are
predjudiced against any form of violence.
And fail to see that that is as unfounded as any other form of
prejudgement.
Shalon Wood
--
Well, i'll fetch a spammer, you fetch an iMac, some baby oil, and some burly
mechanics to assist in the insertion, and we'll Advance Science!
-- Patrick Wade in the Monastery
Alexander Viro
Zebee Johnstone <ze...@zip.com.au> wrote:
>Unfortunately, it's a very human thing to say "not one of us, OK to
>kill", happens with all territorial animals.
It's not just "OK to kill", unfortunately. Any omnivore has technics for
fighting applied inside the group, <<-->> between the groups and <<-->>
with other species. The first and the third tend to be very different.
The question being, what does the second look like. In our case it tends
to be closer to the fighting with other species.
We are not unique in that, BTW - chimps seem to be the same. OTOH, there are
territorial primates who don't act that way (baboons, for one thing).
The fact that groups larger than a hundred of individuals are fairly recent
thing also doesn't help - we somewhat cope with that, but it doesn't work
too well and it's not pretty. Especially when somebody starts asking why the
fsck (cultural) mechanisms that more or less prevent civil wars do not apply
to screwing the living hell of other large groups.
There is _no_ universal mechanism of that sort. Depends on
ideology/period/yodda, yodda and always looks pretty hypocritical to
other groups, especially to groups on the receiving end of the crap from
carriers of that particular culture...
--
Fairy Tails start "Once upon a time."
Army/Sea stories start "This is no shit."
Software proposals start "1.0."
Joe Zeff in the Monastery
Satya
>And it's why people consider Ghandi to be so allfired amazing. He got
"Gandhi". Please.
--
Satya.
Zebee Johnstone
Shalon Wood <ds...@nospam.dummy.pele.cx> wrote:
>ze...@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) writes:
>
>>
>> Not, alas, alone in that.
>>
>> As posts here and elsewhere have shown.
>
>In yourself as well.
>
>From what I've seen from you over the last 48 hours, you are
>predjudiced against any form of violence.
Not any form, no.
Against attacks on innocents yes. Against attacks on people you can't
show are guilty, yes.
Violence as revenge, yes. Violence as deterrent, yes.
Violence as self-defence yes, in certain circumstances. Violence as
an absolute last resort yes, in certain circumstances.
I don't want someone deciding I'm OK to kill because my government
does bad things to their people. I won't kill someone else because of
that. I don't want someone deciding they can bomb my country because
someone they don't like lives there, so I won't do that so someone
else. I don't want people putting me on a show trial to bolster their
own pride, so I won't do that to someone else.
Pre judgement? Dunno, I call it ethics.
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
Sorry. I think I did that more than once too, blindness.
Zebee
Suresh Ramasubramanian
> But their religion, unlike the Hindu "holy poverty" thing doesn't seem
> to have a way for such a person to appear. ghandi used that meme as a
> big part of his power.
Actually, Islam does have the Sufi cult, Dervishes and similar - wandering
monks. Perhaps with weird habits, but still dedicated to a life of poverty,
and respected by the general public.
-suresh
Arvid Grøtting
> If anything separates us from the animals it's
> that we are expected to abide by certain rules.
> Those who insist on crossing that separation
> I reserve the right to call animals.
You are /wrong/, and what you are saying is an insult to the
/animals/.
I'm not proud of some of the sociological phenomena that sets humans
apart from other animals. Not at all.
--
Maybe everything I say is just a bit too pedantic
Arvid for the romanticism of sig-quoting.
-- Randy the Random, in the Monastery
Rob Adams
>In article <oct8zfk...@no-knife.mit.edu>, Omri Schwarz wrote:
>
>> "Human being" is a title that must be earned,
>> and can be lost.
>
>Children aren't born human?
Technically until they are registered I believe they are considered a
Baby/Of and also a biological byproduct.
--
ADVISORY: The email address contained in the header of this posting is
a legitimate address; it is used to harvest email addresses so that we
can email you our own email message containing advertisments. To stop
yourself getting on this list use robadams(at)dingoblue{dit}net(dit)au
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn9q06nc...@zipperii.zip.com.au>, on 09/13/2001
at 02:31 AM, ze...@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) said:
>And it's why people consider Ghandi to be so allfired amazing. He
>got people to do that.
Even Gandhi wasn't able to convince his countrymen not to persecute
the Hari Jann (sp?).
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain acm dot org user shmuel to contact me.
"He was born with a gift of laughter,
and a sense that the world was mad."
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn9pvtfs...@vavatch.jesus.cam.ac.uk>, on 09/12/2001
at 11:54 PM, Matthew Garrett
<mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> said:
>Ah. Does feeling that there are situations where this would be
>justified make me bad and evil?
Acting on that belief certainly would. We've convicted our own
soldiers for doing that.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <3b9f...@fefe.de>, on 09/12/2001
at 10:42 PM, Felix von Leitner <usenet-...@fefe.de> said:
>Why do people like you not learn from history?
>Is it something genetic or is it just your bad upbringing?
At the risk of invoking Godwin, I suggest that you reread what you
posted. You are closer to your roots than you admit. Will your next
step be to propose a Eugenics program?
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <871ylch...@gruk.tech.ensign.ftech.net>, on 09/12/2001
at 12:32 PM, Ingvar the Grey <ing...@bofh.se> said:
>"Word Perfect for Windows"? Sounds like a nasty thing to have
>installed in your heart, that.
You caused it, you mop up the vomit.
Wolf-Parkinson-White syndrome. It's an electrical abnormality that
can cause arythmia and tachycardia. IANAD, but to me here doesn't
seem to be a serious risk that a blood donation would trigger a
serious attack.
Matthew Garrett
J.) Metz wrote:
> In <slrn9pvtfs...@vavatch.jesus.cam.ac.uk>, on 09/12/2001
> at 11:54 PM, Matthew Garrett
><mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> said:
>
>>Ah. Does feeling that there are situations where this would be
>>justified make me bad and evil?
>
> Acting on that belief certainly would. We've convicted our own
> soldiers for doing that.
In a situation where purposefully targetting a large number of innocents
saves a larger number of innocents is it still wrong? I'm sure there's
some sort of line here, but I'm not sure where most people would
consider it to be. Believing that one side of it is the preserve of
people who shouldn't be considered human when there's no absolute method
of determining the degree of any "beneficial" outcome seems rather
aribtrary to me.
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Shalon Wood
> In alt.sysadmin.recovery on 13 Sep 2001 00:38:14 -0500
> Shalon Wood <ds...@nospam.dummy.pele.cx> wrote:
> >ze...@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) writes:
> >
> >>
> >> Not, alas, alone in that.
> >>
> >> As posts here and elsewhere have shown.
> >
> >In yourself as well.
> >
> >From what I've seen from you over the last 48 hours, you are
> >predjudiced against any form of violence.
>
> Not any form, no.
>
> Against attacks on innocents yes. Against attacks on people you can't
> show are guilty, yes.
That wasn't what you said. What you said was 'violence begets
violence'. No qualifications.
And I find it *insulting* that I actually have to say that I don't
support going after innocents.
Suresh Ramasubramanian
> at 02:31 AM, ze...@zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) said:
> >And it's why people consider Ghandi to be so allfired amazing. He
> >got people to do that.
>
> Even Gandhi wasn't able to convince his countrymen not to persecute
> the Hari Jann (sp?).
... about as successful as Rev Martin Luther King (who also followed Gandhi's
ideas) in convincing Americans not to use the word "Nigger".
He did manage to make discrimination on the basis of caste illegal - and a
criminal offense at that.
That doesn't stop the local bigots, of course.
-suresh
Maarten Wiltink
<3ba0a326$18$fuzhry$mr2...@news.patriot.net>...
>
>In <871ylch...@gruk.tech.ensign.ftech.net>, on 09/12/2001
> at 12:32 PM, Ingvar the Grey <ing...@bofh.se> said:
>
>>"Word Perfect for Windows"? Sounds like a nasty thing to have
>>installed in your heart, that.
>
>You caused it, you mop up the vomit.
>
>Wolf-Parkinson-White syndrome. It's an electrical abnormality that
>can cause arythmia and tachycardia. IANAD, but to me here doesn't
>seem to be a serious risk that a blood donation would trigger a
>serious attack.
They wrote off my wife when she was diagnosed with diabetes.
It sounds like being about the risk to the donor, not to the
recipient. If they're smart, they'll have standard waivers
in a stand by the door. (And if they're even smarter, they'll
ask you to come back when the lines clear.)
I hope you get to donate your pint. It's a very tangible way
to feel you've done _something_.
Tebrgfrwf,
Maarten Wiltink
Maarten Wiltink
>Arthur van der Harg <avd...@wirehub.nl> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, David P. Murphy wrote:
>
>>> Your sense of scale is somewhat off --- a perfect demonstration would
be
>>> nuking the northern half of Afghanistan. RwP is just talking.
>
>> That would be a classic mistake, bombing the wrong target. The Taliban
are
>> in the southern half...
>
>Consider me corrected; I was sure I had heard "northern" but I
>wasn't taking notes.
>
>And in response to an email I received, allow me to point out that
>the context of my post was "a perfect demo of THE WRONG THING TO DO".
>Luser thought I was /advocating/ dropping nukes!
Gee... _lusers_ supporting you in email?
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Jonathan Guthrie
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote in message
>>Wolf-Parkinson-White syndrome. It's an electrical abnormality that
>>can cause arythmia and tachycardia. IANAD, but to me here doesn't
>>seem to be a serious risk that a blood donation would trigger a
>>serious attack.
Some cardiac medications cause indefinite deferrals. Some of the
more common medications are listed on the Web sites of various
blood collecting agencies. (The only one I can remember
specifically is one I can't spell.)
> They wrote off my wife when she was diagnosed with diabetes.
> It sounds like being about the risk to the donor, not to the
> recipient. If they're smart, they'll have standard waivers
> in a stand by the door. (And if they're even smarter, they'll
> ask you to come back when the lines clear.)
When I got in line yesterday, I was handed a brochure with many
of the deferrals listed in it. While I stood and then sat in
line, we were constantly being reminded of the more common reasons
for being refused to donate, mostly travel overseas.
The point was to not allow those who would be deferred to get to
the interview, so as not to waste time.
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate
Jens Goerke
> What does
> it say when the sight of a simple grasshopper makes a grown man cry?
The meaning is simple: There Is Hope.
We live in different countries, on different continents, look
different, we might follow different religions and/or politics,
but apart from that, we have a soul that makes us human.
You, Sir, have a soul, and therefore you are one of the people
who make living on this planet worthwile.
Jens, serious
--
You can't out-sarcasm reality.
Satya
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz [alt.sysadmin.recovery] <13 Sep 2001 08:29:20 -0400>:
>> the Hari Jann (sp?).
>He did manage to make discrimination on the basis of caste illegal - and a
>criminal offense at that.
>
>That doesn't stop the local bigots, of course.
And with the intention of "uplifting" the "minorities", they've reserved
various jobs, education seats, etc. for them. The result? Over 50%
openings are now reserved.
(Suresh, help. I'm not able to translate.)
--
Satya.
Rob Adams
>They wrote off my wife when she was diagnosed with diabetes.
>It sounds like being about the risk to the donor, not to the
>recipient. If they're smart, they'll have standard waivers
>in a stand by the door. (And if they're even smarter, they'll
>ask you to come back when the lines clear.)
Wierd, Im a diabetic and the Red Cross (Aust.) continues to play
vampire with me.
Rob.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn9q331o....@juanita.tertius.net.au>, on 09/14/2001
at 04:48 AM, Thorfinn <thor...@tertius.net.au> said:
>If you're prepared to *use* violence (and there is no question that
>the US *is* and *has* done so), be prepared to have violence *used
>upon thee*. You sow what you reap, and you reap what you sow.
We used violence against Germany. More than we used against Japan.
Today Germany is more interested in selling us cars than in restarting
the violence.
We use violence against North Vietnam, with a lot less[1]
justification. Viet Nam wants to improve relations with the US.
We used violence against the Vichy French. The French were glad that
we did so.
[1] No, I do not want to get into an advocacy thread as to whether
there was any justification whatsoever; save that for another day on
another froup.
>The US needs to take the chance to wake up, and *stop pissing in
>other people's business*.
There was a sizable contingent here that agreed with you prior to WW
II. Had Japan not forced the issue, I'm not sure that Roosevelt would
have been able to get approval for entering that war, and .au might
be speaking Japanese today.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <9nr489$b4d$1...@news1.xs4all.nl>, on 09/13/2001
at 10:17 PM, "Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> said:
>I hope you get to donate your pint.
I thought that under the circumstances they might be more flexible,
but was turned down. I've never had an adverse reaction from donating
blood, but I lack the training to judge whether their caution is
warranted. IAC, I have B+ and they probably need O-
and O+ a lot more than they need that.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn9q1ppn....@blackehlo.cluestick.org>, on 09/13/2001
at 05:05 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <dev...@hserus.net> said:
>.... about as successful as Rev Martin Luther King (who also followed
>Gandhi's ideas) in convincing Americans not to use the word
>"Nigger".
That's not a major issue. But he also didn't convince Americans[1] not
to assault, refuse jobs to, etc., people based on their skin color,
religion, etc. Had he lived longer he might well have; I felt that the
sould of America had been shot when he was killed.
>That doesn't stop the local bigots, of course.
No, it does not. And there are disturbing reports of an upsurge in
ethnic, racial and religious hatred both in America and in Europe.
[1] Please remember that not all Americans are alike.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <af6rn9...@216.39.196.197>, on 09/13/2001
at 03:55 PM, Jonathan Guthrie <jgut...@brokersys.com> said:
>Some cardiac medications cause indefinite deferrals.
My WPW syndrome is (mostly) asymptomatic and I'm not on medication
for it. Given that, I'm not convinced that I would have been at risk
just from donating a pint, but IANAD.
>The point was to not allow those who would be deferred to get to the
>interview, so as not to waste time.
That's why I called ahead of time.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrn9q1dku...@vavatch.jesus.cam.ac.uk>, on 09/13/2001
at 01:36 PM, Matthew Garrett
<mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> said:
>In a situation where purposefully targetting a large number of
>innocents saves a larger number of innocents is it still wrong?
I haven't seen a situation where that was the case. Collateral
damage, yes, but not deliberate targetting.
Matthew Garrett
J.) Metz wrote:
> In <slrn9q1dku...@vavatch.jesus.cam.ac.uk>, on 09/13/2001
> at 01:36 PM, Matthew Garrett
><mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> said:
>
>>In a situation where purposefully targetting a large number of
>>innocents saves a larger number of innocents is it still wrong?
>
> I haven't seen a situation where that was the case. Collateral
> damage, yes, but not deliberate targetting.
Oh, sure. I can't think of any situations where this might actually be
the case (other than horribly contrived ones that probably involve
aliens or something), but I'd still probably think of it as the right
thing to do. Unfortunately, the boundary between that and targetting
large numbers of innocents for a result that you happen to believe is
worth it even if the rest of the world disagrees with you seems a bit
fuzzy.
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org
Logan Shaw
Jonathan Guthrie <jgut...@brokersys.com> wrote:
>When I got in line yesterday, I was handed a brochure with many
>of the deferrals listed in it. While I stood and then sat in
>line, we were constantly being reminded of the more common reasons
>for being refused to donate, mostly travel overseas.
On the subject of donating blood, a local news program interviewed a
man who was donating blood at a local blood bank. He suffers from high
blood pressure, and he was describing the technique he used to become
eligible to donate. He avoids all foods with added salt for three or
four days, and then he comes in and his blood pressure is just within
the limits.
Apparently, he has gotten quite good at this technique, since so far he
has given 37 gallons of blood. That's 296 pints. He has probably had
plenty of time to accomplish this. He looked to be about 70 years old.
He said that after donating blood, he immediately goes home and
celebrates his ability to eat salty food again, usually by eating a lot
of Fritos[1] and drinking a beer.
When asked why he gave blood so often, he said that if you don't do it,
your blood builds up lots of rust and that makes you feel tired and
bad. So he makes sure to come in and get rid of some of that rusty old
blood so that his body can make some nice fresh new blood to replace it.
So what do you know, a human interest story on the local news that was
both human and interesting.
- Logan
[1] For those who aren't familiar, it's a corn chip that's exceedingly
salty and greasy.
--
"Our grandkids love that we get Roadrunner and digital cable."
(Advertisement for Time Warner cable TV and internet access, July 2001)
Suresh Ramasubramanian
> No, it does not. And there are disturbing reports of an upsurge in
> ethnic, racial and religious hatred both in America and in Europe.
> [1] Please remember that not all Americans are alike.
If I didn't know that I wouldn't be posting here.
-suresh
r...@columbus.rr.com
> Thus spake Omri Schwarz (ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu):
>> "Human being" is a title that must be earned, and can be lost.
> You, Omri, are a fascist.
Interesting interpretation. Not supported by the statement, even without
the context. But interesting.
> Why do people like you not learn from history?
> Is it something genetic or is it just your bad upbringing?
Feel free to examine the history of your own country. The mistakes of
mine have been frequent enough, and on occasion horrendous. But you
have _no_ basis to support your smug satisfaction with the events of
Tuesday morning.
BTW, I come to this forum to escape from luserish behavior.
*plonk*
(and that's the one more post I promised X-thread)
--
Richard Beals
"Perl == Being" -- Descartes
(as paraphrased by Matthew Malthouse in the monastery)
Dan Birchall
> for it and not drop in at regular 3-month intervals like most blood
> donors here.
>
> "Your blood type is too damn rare around these parts to
> be generally useful, sir".
*nodnod* Maisha's blood would be perfect, except it's got the
wrong charge (O+ instead of O-) so they're not as interested in
her. And my experiences with a non-HIV but still TLA retrovirus
resulted in them being pointedly disinterested in mine. Which is
just as well, since I have needle phobia with syncope, and my last
blood test involved minor seizures.
-Dan
--
Available for Biz, Pics, Tech and Words - http://danbirchall.com/
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - M Gandhi
Please read my address carefully if you're going to send me spam!
Omri Schwarz
> Felix von Leitner <usenet-...@fefe.de> wrote:
> > Thus spake Omri Schwarz (ocs...@h-after-ocsc.mit.edu):
> >> "Human being" is a title that must be earned, and can be lost.
>
> > You, Omri, are a fascist.
>
> Interesting interpretation. Not supported by the statement, even without
> the context. But interesting.
<autolart>
My apologies to all for bothering to reply
the Felix's posts.
Won't happen again.
</autolart>
--
Omri Schwarz --- ocs...@mit.edu ('h' before war)
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr
Maarten Wiltink
>"Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
>>They wrote off my wife when she was diagnosed with diabetes.
>>It sounds like being about the risk to the donor, not to the
>>recipient. [...]
>Wierd, Im a diabetic and the Red Cross (Aust.) continues to play
>vampire with me.
The body loses 500cc of blood, and this upsets the body's
mechanisms for maintaining glucose levels, as far as they
go anyway. There was apparently a real risk that she'd
need hours' worth of observed recuperation on the spot.
In the end, it was a simple cost/gain thing, and she lost.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
The Scarlet Manuka
and said:
>Matthew Garrett <mjg59-alt.sys...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote:
>
>>Children aren't born human?
>Technically until they are registered I believe they are considered a
>Baby/Of and also a biological byproduct.
See also: "Falling Free", Lois McMaster Bujold.
--
The Scarlet Manuka
Warwick
pa...@paranoia.no wibbled...
> At 11 sep 2001 Mickey Chandler was unexpectedly visited by the Spanish
> Inquisition in the usenet post <news:Xns91196A7...@216.227.56.89>
>
> > Those of us who are Merikans and are able to donate blood should do so.
> > Lots will be needed.
>
> Ack, this is an important duty of anyone able, so round up your lusers right
> now and have them bring their own buckets.
I'm O negative and apparently missing a few extra bits and bobs.
Universal donor extraordinaire.
Go.. all of you. If you aren't near an overloaded red cross station,
then you're somewhere that needs blood urgently.
It is you or your lazy lusers that mean that the rules are changed that
I get called in anything up to monthly.
Give blood.. save a luser for later
Warwick
random
> Unfortunately, they are. Scary, isn't it, that someone just like you
> could do such a thing?
I've already been freightened by some of the things *I* have done, and not
enough of them were under direct orders from senior officer types. I
lack the strength to imagine what others are capable of.
R