Introductory Rant
Phil Hoenig
I've been a long time lurker and have very occasionally posted, but
haven't done the obligatory rant. I now have a few things to rant
about.
Rant the first: Cisco software. In particular, a bundle of packages
each on their own CD. To be fair to the programmers of such software, I
think I too would have fallen into the trap of not being careful when
having the installation script start a daemon process. I would,
however, have been competant enough to do some testing on said
installation script, realise that there was something wrong when I
couldn't eject the CD after installation any more and modify the script
so that jura vg fgnegf fnvq qnrzba, vg qbrf vg sebz n PJQ gung erfvqrq
fbzrjurer bgure guna ba gur zbhagrq zrqvn. Am I expecting too much if I
consider that a sign of poor software testing and am dreading the more
serious fsck-ups that are bound to have also been missed?
Rant the second: Strange people on trains. I've long suspected that
some malevalent being must once have tatooed "Talk to me" on my
forehead in some ink only visible by those whose grasp on sanity is
about the same as Micro$oft's grasp of security. Case in point: on
Friday night the guy on the train sitting across from me saw that I was
reading a book he had read and used that as an excuse to start up a
conversation, or rather a monologue, with me. Because I'm too polite
for my own good I didn't have the heart to tell him to shut up and let
me read and thus I got to listen all about how he had let himself out
of the hospital, how happy he'd be to get back to his cats after four
weeks and how that wasn't monster dandruff he was picking out his hair,
it was bits of glue from where they had stuck the electrodes to him.
Ten minutes or so later he had quietened and I was able to strike up a
conversation with my friend, who had arrived mid-tirade. Alas said
friend asked how my computers were going. I now have reason to believe
that I've been asked for computer help by a real escaped mental patient
as opposed to the metaphorical kind I get bothered by at work. I must
admit I prefer the real kind - they get less upset when I tell them
that I can help if there's a problem with my computers, but if they
want Tech Support they should ask the people in Tech Support whose pay
rates are such that it's worth their time trying to explain to them how
to get their Internet.
Rant the third: Whichever one of my cow-orkers pulled the plug on one
of my machines. There's been some work with the power going on this
weekend which means that we moved the important stuff off of the
regular power supply and onto the more reliable backup. Any rational
being could be expected to then realise that if a machine is plugged
into the backup power supply, there's a slight possibility that it
might be important and that WE DON'T WANT SOME MORON TO PULL THE PLUGS
OUT. I *will* find out who did that and made me come in on my own time
and make them pay. This will probably involve the Celine Dion mp3s that
some script kiddie put on his FTP server, or possibly I could do some
sort of interpretive dance doing appropriate actions whilst listening
to the dulcet tones of Leanord Nimoy singing "If I Had a Hammer."
Suresh Ramasubramanian
> and make them pay. This will probably involve the Celine Dion mp3s that
> some script kiddie put on his FTP server, or possibly I could do some
> sort of interpretive dance doing appropriate actions whilst listening
> to the dulcet tones of Leanord Nimoy singing "If I Had a Hammer."
ctlinnd newgroup alt.owch.my.eyes.and.ears :(
--srs
Earl Grey
> Rant the first: Cisco software.
Could have stoped there, but.
Fucking arbitrary 256 Bridge Group limit...
> Am I expecting too much if I consider that a sign of poor software
> testing and am dreading the more serious fsck-ups that are bound to
> have also been missed?
Well, "All Software Sucks[tm]", so there is little impetus to improve.
Or even get it right the first time.
> Rant the second: Strange people on trains.
Oh, that's perfectly normal.
Happens to everyone all the time.
It's why Cars were invented, it seems.
> Rant the third: Whichever one of my cow-orkers pulled the plug on one
> of my machines.
Ah.
Back about a decade or so, I wrote a piece of software that could survive
an unexpected power-off with the database intact. It seems that as systems
have gotten more ... uh, "Advanced", that the tech to do that has been
left by the wayside, as the same software "Stopped Working" in this regard
with the advent of Windoze.
"All Software Sucks[tm]."
"But Some Software Sucks More Than Others[tm]."
--
They tell me that you're going to try posting to Alt.Sysadmin.Recovery.
It's a Magnificent Idea; A Daring and Splendid Idea! It will be FUN!
Assuming you're not vaporized, dissected, or otherwise killed in an
assortment of supremely horrible and painful ways! Exciting, Isn't It?!
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <a9b46m$34l$1...@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au>, on 04/14/2002
at 03:31 PM, pho...@news.unimelb.edu.au (Phil Hoenig) said:
>I've been a long time lurker and have very occasionally posted, but
>haven't done the obligatory rant. I now have a few things to rant
It's not obligatory, but it may make you feel better. If it's not
bothering you to the point that you *have* to let it out, what are
you doing here?
>Am I expecting too much if I
>consider that a sign of poor software testing and am dreading the
>more serious fsck-ups that are bound to have also been missed?
You're not demanding too much, but if you're expecting those demands
to be met in a world where quality of workmanship is considered to be
naive, . . .
If you're taking the lapse as a red flag, you've got that right. It's
dollars to donuts that they've screwed up more than you're aware of.
>Because I'm too polite for my own good
That will cause you problems in the ork place.
>I now have reason to believe
>that I've been asked for computer help by a real escaped mental
>patient as opposed to the metaphorical kind I get bothered by at
>work.
How sure are you about "metaphorical"?
>Any rational being
Nu, you expected one?
>and make them pay
May I suggest the hot enema of enlightenment[1]? Or the Barney
Song[2]. Or both.
Welcome to the monkey house.
[1] Thermite.
[2] On earphones, of course, so that it doesn't drown out the singing
from your luser.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
"The most dementing of all modern sins:
the inability to distinguish excellence from success." David Hare
d...@omally.animagicnet.no
>
> You're not demanding too much, but if you're expecting those demands
> to be met in a world where quality of workmanship is considered to be
> naive, . . .
Arggh
Do not get me started.
I am Not A Programmer, but sometimes I am called upon to program stuff.
Anyway I was writing some code and my co-worker, who Is A Programmer,
came up to me and looked at what I was doing. We chatted about what
I was doing and how I was doing it and he pointed to a piece of code
and asked why I didn't do that in such a way. I thought about this and
pointed out that, while his way may require less actual code, my way
would certainly put signifigantly less load on the database server,
possibly run faster and at any rate I thought my way was more aesthetic.
He just looked at me and said "Surely the database server can handle the
extra load".
Now as I said I am Not A Programmer and have no intentions of becomming
one, but surley adding un-necessary load on the database server just to
shorten your code a couple of dozen lines is Not Good. Surely the fact
that the database server could probably handle it, assuming the useage
doesn't increase above current levels (a big assumption) should not
factor into the above decision. Surely there is some pride in having
code that, at least to you, looks nice.
Dag
Alan J Rosenthal
>... sometimes I am called upon to program stuff.
I suppose that program stuffing is to programs as gerbil stuffing is to
gerbils.
...
>... Surely there is some pride in having code that, at least to you,
>looks nice.
I suppose it depends upon where you're going to stuff it. In some cases it
might not matter that much. It seems to me that your style is more refined
than his, that's all.
-- aj "burp" r
Matt Olson
> Now as I said I am Not A Programmer and have no intentions of becomming
> one, but surley adding un-necessary load on the database server just to
> shorten your code a couple of dozen lines is Not Good.
AUUGH!
You've just dragged a metaphorical straight razor along my
Good Programming Practices nerve.
I've lost count of the number of copro-grammers who've
written unreadable, unmaintainable code under the aegis of
"performance considerations". Now, I'm not accusing you
of this particular idiocy, but dammit, most of the so-
called "optimizations" these mouth-breathing cretins impose
on MY CODEBASE are entirely unnecessary, and cost far more
time in code maintenance ("why the hell did he do _that_?")
than they save in runtime performance (for instance, when
another program entirely is bottlenecking the DB swerver).
And I take these cretins to task, and they say: "but it's
_faster_ that way!" Then I rip their network cable out of
the wall socket and flagellate them, and take their desk-
top off their desk and beat them over the head with it, and
of course my supervisor objects and _I_ have to build a new
PeeCee for their replacement. Who does the SAME FUCKING
THING.
> Surely there is some pride in having
> code that, at least to you, looks nice.
Hell yes. But when people have to justify ugly code (yours,
despite my context trimming, wasn't ugly) with the false
idol of performance, they should be LARTed unmercifully and
terminally.
Cheers,
Matt
--
Matt "samurai shitsweeper" Olson, speaking for himself.
* Jesus loves you. (oO)
* God forgives you. /||\
* Cthulhu thinks you'd go well with a side of fries. Ia! Ia!
mrob...@worldnet.att.net
>[2] http://leonardnimoysinging.edu/this/is/not/a/url.htm
Nyetwork Dissolutions screws up another unsuspecting university's
registration...
$ whois leonardnimoysinging.edu
[whois.geektools.com]
Query: leonardnimoysinging.edu
Registry: whois.educause.net
Results:
This Registry database contains ONLY .EDU domains.
will not be used to allow, enable, or otherwise support
the transmission of unsolicited commercial advertising or
solicitations via e-mail.
You may use "%" as a wildcard in your search. For further
information regarding the use of this WHOIS server, please
type: help
--------------------------
No Match
Results brought to you by the GeekTools WHOIS Proxy
Server results may be copyrighted and are used with permission.
Your host (<snip>) has visited 1 times today.
$
Matt Roberds
Bogdan Iamandei [ROT13]
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:08:31 -1000, Earl Grey said:
>>...
>>"All Software Sucks[tm]."
>>"But Some Software Sucks More Than Others[tm]."
>
> instance, moving from sunos 5.x to nt sucks more, but moving from
> nt to sunos does not suck less. This can be repeated across a wide
> variety of operating systems, applications and disaster recovery
> or prevention solutions.
>
> This leads to the conclusion that suckiness is *not commutative*,
> so while the boolean
>
> Ll($some_software) > Ll($other_software)
>
> is true, the corresponding
>
> Ll($other_software) < Ll($some_software)
>
> is false.
>
> This Important Property[tm] does not appear to be noted in the
> literature. ISAGN. Comments?
Oh, but you see, you're basically comparing here the properties
of 2 objects in 2 different realities^Wreference systems. But if
you bring all in the same reality^Wreference system, say:
Ll(migration($some_software, $other_software))
you may observe that
Ll(migration($some_software, $other_software)) > \
Ll(migration($other_software, $some_software))
is true, and also, the corresponding is true:
Ll(migration($other_software, $some_software)) < \
Ll(migration($some_software, $other_software))
This is also true for the particular case of:
$other_software=$some_software_version+epsilon
Ino!~
--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
In <slrnabkemt...@csu401.cs.ualberta.ca>, on 04/15/2002
at 02:28 AM, ol...@csu401.cs.ualberta.ca (Matt Olson) said:
>But when people have to justify ugly code (yours,
>despite my context trimming, wasn't ugly) with the false idol of
>performance, they should be LARTed unmercifully and terminally.
Don't you want them to continue screaming pour encourage les autres?
Thomas W. Strong Jr.
> Simple: every time you replace $software with $other_software, an
> elementary particle of blowage^Wanti-suckage dies.
> Even when $software == $other_software.
It makes sense that even software has to follow the laws of
thermodynamics. How else would you explain phenomena like bit rot?
--
Thomas W. Strong Jr. <str...@dementia.org>
http://www.tomstrong.org/
Mike Andrews
: Oh, but you see, you're basically comparing here the properties
: of 2 objects in 2 different realities^Wreference systems. But if
: you bring all in the same reality^Wreference system, say:
: Ll(migration($some_software, $other_software))
: you may observe that
: Ll(migration($some_software, $other_software)) > \
: Ll(migration($other_software, $some_software))
: is true, and also, the corresponding is true:
: Ll(migration($other_software, $some_software)) < \
: Ll(migration($some_software, $other_software))
: This is also true for the particular case of:
: $other_software=$some_software_version+epsilon
All of this is just recitation of specific cases of the
"Everything Sucks Worse Than Anything Else" Principle, also
known as The Untraviolent Catastrophe.
--
From RFC 1925: "(3) With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However,
this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly
overhead."
Phil Hoenig
>Phil Hoenig wrote:
>> Rant the second: Strange people on trains.
>Oh, that's perfectly normal.
>Happens to everyone all the time.
So other people get lectured about how Jesus wanted to save H*tl*r
(only H*tl*r didn't want to be saved) or asked by over-friendly
conductors for their phone numbers too? Knowing that I'm not alone
somehow makes me feel... different. Not particulary better, just
different.
Phil Hoenig
>Grrrr.....
>In a pathetic attempt at a rant, Phil Hoenig wrote:
>> Greetings all.
>a.s.n-n is ---->
>When I orked at $WeMakeBoxesThatShiftBits, I was the field specialist[0]
>for the abomination to which you allude. I personally hunted down and
>ranted[1] at the irresponsible copro-grammers back at HQ, trapped them
>in their cubicles and gave demos of the many faults seen by paying
>customers. They turned it into a DSW by showing me lurking horrors I
>hadn't even suspected could exist. They knew about the bugs, but they
>just didn't care or had the time to fix.
That sounds about right. A previous box running an earlier version had
to be located in a different timezone to get around a bug. I'm not sure
how hard it would have been for them to make a bugfix, but it wasn't
a very high priority.
>> Am I expecting too much if I
>> consider that a sign of poor software testing and am dreading the more
>> serious fsck-ups that are bound to have also been missed?
>You were expecting anything to work? The term for you is either naive
>or optimist.
Expecting it to work? No.
>> Rant the third: [unplugging]
>> and make them pay. ... possibly I could do some
>> sort of interpretive dance doing appropriate actions whilst listening
>> to the dulcet tones of Leanord Nimoy singing "If I Had a Hammer."
>Your next post will include a URL[2] to an MPEG of this.
As you said earlier, a.s.n-n is ---->
If you want that MPEG, do your own searching for it.
Mike Andrews
: Jerry Mulligan <nos...@hellish.co.uk> writes:
:>When I orked at $WeMakeBoxesThatShiftBits, I was the field specialist[0]
:>for the abomination to which you allude. I personally hunted down and
:>ranted[1] at the irresponsible copro-grammers back at HQ, trapped them
:>in their cubicles and gave demos of the many faults seen by paying
:>customers. They turned it into a DSW by showing me lurking horrors I
:>hadn't even suspected could exist. They knew about the bugs, but they
:>just didn't care or had the time to fix.
: That sounds about right. A previous box running an earlier version had
: to be located in a different timezone to get around a bug. I'm not sure
: how hard it would have been for them to make a bugfix, but it wasn't
: a very high priority.
That sounds like a really _great_ bug, and telling us about it
is in no way propagating UI, wo how about it?
The other Monks will note that I have no difficulty whatsoever in
believing that There Are Tentacle-bedecked Things hiding inside
those boxes.
--
Cats give a whole new meaning to the phrase "fuzzy logic".
-- Seanette Blaylock, in nanae
Matthew Malthouse
} On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:08:31 -1000, Earl Grey said:
} >
}
} The paradox contained therein is that No Software Sucks Less. For
} instance, moving from sunos 5.x to nt sucks more, but moving from
} nt to sunos does not suck less. This can be repeated across a wide
} variety of operating systems, applications and disaster recovery
} or prevention solutions.
}
} This leads to the conclusion that suckiness is *not commutative*,
} so while the boolean
}
} Ll($some_software) > Ll($other_software)
}
} is true, the corresponding
}
} Ll($other_software) < Ll($some_software)
}
} is false.
}
} This Important Property[tm] does not appear to be noted in the
} literature. ISAGN. Comments?
No paradox, universal law: "Suckage tends to a maximum".
Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara