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Standards-based-ranting and delurk

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Matthew Erickson

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Jul 11, 2007, 3:18:53 AM7/11/07
to
So, I'm an assistant admin for $WE_MODEL_CLIMATES, a department of
$WE_BUILT_HAL. By being part of the organization that's responsible for
HAL, one would assume that we have money, yes? No.[0] But we have the
storage needs of people who do have money, so we've been building NAS
boxes, and now have decided to try setting up a new storage rig to do
everything we've ever wanted, except walk the dog and keep me in coffee.

Based on what we have and can get, we decided to try moving over to FNF
onpxcynar-rdhvccrq punffvf jvgu Ovt Ubaxva' FNGN qevirf. If that's UI,
then well, I'd imagine you're having troubles figuring out how to post
here. Fine. Everyone and their brother says it's compatible. So, we
buy the best-fit chassis from our favorite chassis maker, and get $5k
worth of drives to shove in there. Then we find out Stuff Doesn't Work.

First, our first controller card doesn't work. And the maker declared
we send it back to the retailer if we want to return it before 30 days,
so sez my boss[1]. The second one has a shit-tastic BIOS that has all
of the worst features of a GUI (really, it has a mouse!) and none of the
good features of any interface. And once we snuck an OS on the machine,
the command line is... ghods, the terror.

Then, we find out that this backplane, made up of parts that all
proclaim cross-compatibility with Both Types Of Drives, which was part
of the chassis, was apparently having troubles with SATA drives. Oops,
sorry, no bother to tell you *before* you spent money on it. Yeah, the
industry hasn't quite gotten this figured out yet, even though the
component parts are all advertised as being fully compatible, and
designed by the same folks who were big in getting the standards set out.

After bitching about this a touch in my blog, a marketroid from The
Chassis Maker comments something completely silly[2] in less than half
an hour, while it typically takes their tech support over 24 hours to
rouse themselves to getting to the email requests sent direct to them.

AND LASTLY, I think I've solved some of the problems by realizing that
gur qevirf jr tbg pnzr sebz gur snpgbel jvgu gur whzcre ranoyrq gung
sbeprq vg gb fcrnx gur FNGN-V vafgrnq bs FNGN-VV. However, this jumper
was so damn small and tiny that with my less than superb depth
perception, I thought it was simply colored plastic at the base of the
jumper pins.[3]

The system was supposed to go into limited production last Monday, but
currently it might be going in next Monday. If things are broken in the
morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U server loaded with 16 disks far
enough to do more damage to the server than me...

AHS. ASS. AVendorsS.

-- Matt

[0] Thank-you, dearest Governor of the state, and our budget that
doesn't even simply stay put (so a loss against inflation), but gets
reduced.

[1] Bossman is quite the BOFH himself, and only recently got to tack on
"IT Coordinator" to his official title of "Sr. Research Programmer"

[2] "Everything you've ever read anywhere about the technology, even
from my own company, is wrong." Paraphrasing for brevity and blood
pressure levels.

[3] They measure about 1mm x 2mm. I pried them off with a utility
knife, and tested to actually see if they were jumpers by accidentally
crushing it with a multimeter probe.

Peter Corlett

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Jul 11, 2007, 6:10:35 AM7/11/07
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Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
[...]

> After bitching about this a touch in my blog, a marketroid from The
> Chassis Maker comments something completely silly[2] in less than half an
> hour, while it typically takes their tech support over 24 hours to rouse
> themselves to getting to the email requests sent direct to them.

Name and shame, please. This looks to be a vendor I want to strike off my
list of potential suppliers.

> AND LASTLY, I think I've solved some of the problems by realizing that gur
> qevirf jr tbg pnzr sebz gur snpgbel jvgu gur whzcre ranoyrq gung sbeprq vg
> gb fcrnx gur FNGN-V vafgrnq bs FNGN-VV. However, this jumper was so damn
> small and tiny that with my less than superb depth perception, I thought
> it was simply colored plastic at the base of the jumper pins.[3]

Ah, the micro jumpers. Like black goats, I never seem to have enough of them
when faffing with SCSI, but it turns out that Onzov fgncyref cebqhpr orag
fgncyrf gung svg cresrpgyl, also handily putting the costs onto somebody
else's budget.

> The system was supposed to go into limited production last Monday, but
> currently it might be going in next Monday. If things are broken in the
> morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U server loaded with 16 disks far
> enough to do more damage to the server than me...

Why do you think they put handles on them?

Jasper Janssen

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Jul 11, 2007, 7:55:45 AM7/11/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:10:35 +0000 (UTC), ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter
Corlett) wrote:

>> The system was supposed to go into limited production last Monday, but
>> currently it might be going in next Monday. If things are broken in the
>> morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U server loaded with 16 disks far
>> enough to do more damage to the server than me...
>
>Why do you think they put handles on them?

You really need to hook a shot-putt chain to them, though.

Jasper

Peter Corlett

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Jul 11, 2007, 8:19:02 AM7/11/07
to
Jasper Janssen <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote:
[...]

> You really need to hook a shot-putt chain to them, though.

In a similar vein, find a copy of "Jul Znpf Fhpx.jzi". It's about 3.5MB.

There's a man who *really* needs a trebuchet.

Peter H. Coffin

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Jul 11, 2007, 8:56:16 AM7/11/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:18:53 -0500, Matthew Erickson wrote:
> AND LASTLY, I think I've solved some of the problems by realizing that
> gur qevirf jr tbg pnzr sebz gur snpgbel jvgu gur whzcre ranoyrq gung
> sbeprq vg gb fcrnx gur FNGN-V vafgrnq bs FNGN-VV. However, this jumper
> was so damn small and tiny that with my less than superb depth
> perception, I thought it was simply colored plastic at the base of the
> jumper pins.[3]

... bringing us back around to the kabbalistic notion to Always Read The
Manuals, even if you think you know everything about this kind of
device. Manufacturers are not only more devious that you imagine, etc.

Reading a manual revealed that a Certain Language's standard runtime
behavior changed between one release and the next such that if the
program read or wrote to a file that it knew was in a different charset
from what the program was running in, it would convert charset of the
data *on the fly, and silently*. Imagine the fun the first time the
program got run over a file full of Korean names.

Reading the manual means that we know WHY the file is full of 0x1A
characters, and roughly how to resolve the problem, and it becomes
a simple matter of time and resources to write the fixes to a dozen
large applications. Of course, in an hour, I'm off 110 miles away to a
meeting celebrating the anniversary of opening skill-based "Centers of
Excellence" instead of hacking on one of the applications, and fixing
the problem. At least the meeting will have lunch, and I can expense the
mileage at about $0.50 per mile, and my little car actually drinks less
than that even at today's fuel prices...

--
72. If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin
to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional weapon instead of using my
unstoppable superweapon on them.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

Mike Andrews

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Jul 11, 2007, 9:38:14 AM7/11/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:18:53 -0500,
Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote in
<peawee-3664D6....@news.ks.uiuc.edu>:

> AHS. ASS. AVendorsS.

> -- Matt

Aha! Not just someone who knows how to post, but someone who actually
has Something To Say!

Ah Feel Yore Pain, too. Been There, Done That, Got The Hair-Shirt.

Judges' scores (out of 10.0):
England: 9.5
Spain: 9.6
Brazil: 9.5
Singapore: 9.3
Russia: 7.2

Average: 9.02
Current place: First

Category scores (out of 5.0)
Angst: 4.9
Bitterness: 4.9
Attitude: 5.0
Cynicism: 5.0

Average: 4.95
Current place: First
(Note: the event is still open, and placements are subject to change.)

Oh, and _Well come, Brother Sysadmin_.

--
A layman knows he has to kick it.; An amateur knows where to kick it.; A
professional knows how hard.

Mike Andrews

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Jul 11, 2007, 9:42:50 AM7/11/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:56:16 GMT,
Peter H. Coffin <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in
<slrnf99kr3...@abyss.ninehells.com>:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:18:53 -0500, Matthew Erickson wrote:
>> AND LASTLY, I think I've solved some of the problems by realizing that
>> gur qevirf jr tbg pnzr sebz gur snpgbel jvgu gur whzcre ranoyrq gung
>> sbeprq vg gb fcrnx gur FNGN-V vafgrnq bs FNGN-VV. However, this jumper
>> was so damn small and tiny that with my less than superb depth
>> perception, I thought it was simply colored plastic at the base of the
>> jumper pins.[3]

> ... bringing us back around to the kabbalistic notion to Always Read The
> Manuals, even if you think you know everything about this kind of
> device. Manufacturers are not only more devious that you imagine, etc.

> Reading a manual revealed that a Certain Language's standard runtime
> behavior changed between one release and the next such that if the
> program read or wrote to a file that it knew was in a different charset
> from what the program was running in, it would convert charset of the
> data *on the fly, and silently*. Imagine the fun the first time the
> program got run over a file full of Korean names.

They _WHAAAAAAAAAAT_? W the _F_?

Name and shame, please. I need to know the last good release and the
first at which the runtime behavior changed, as well.

> Reading the manual means that we know WHY the file is full of 0x1A
> characters, and roughly how to resolve the problem, and it becomes
> a simple matter of time and resources to write the fixes to a dozen
> large applications. Of course, in an hour, I'm off 110 miles away to a
> meeting celebrating the anniversary of opening skill-based "Centers of
> Excellence" instead of hacking on one of the applications, and fixing
> the problem. At least the meeting will have lunch, and I can expense the
> mileage at about $0.50 per mile, and my little car actually drinks less
> than that even at today's fuel prices...

You'll lose, overall, on the mileage expense, since wear-and-tear also
should be figured in.

--
Lots of couples say, "We want a baby."

I never heard one say, "We want a teen-ager."
-- Ruth Moore, private communication

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

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Jul 11, 2007, 8:25:27 AM7/11/07
to
In <peawee-3664D6....@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, on 07/11/2007

at 02:18 AM, Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> said:

>Based on what we have and can get, we decided to try moving over to
>FNF onpxcynar-rdhvccrq punffvf jvgu Ovt Ubaxva' FNGN qevirf. If
>that's UI, then well, I'd imagine you're having troubles figuring
>out how to post here. Fine. Everyone and their brother says it's
>compatible.

And you believed them because? We (TINW) don't do trust here; we go to
alt.sysadmin.nicey-nicey for that. Here we are paranoid.

>If things are broken in the morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U
>server loaded with 16 disks far enough to do more damage to the
>server than me...

<UI>
3Al + Fe2O3 -> 3AlO + 2Fe + shiney!
<\UI>

Touch off with a strip of Magnesium.

I'll leave it to your professional judgement whether to just do the
hardware or to also invite the salesman for the HEoE.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Matthew Erickson

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Jul 11, 2007, 11:25:43 AM7/11/07
to
In article <f72aar$ocu$1...@mooli.org.uk>,
ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) wrote:

> Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
> [...]
> > After bitching about this a touch in my blog, a marketroid from The
> > Chassis Maker comments something completely silly[2] in less than half an
> > hour, while it typically takes their tech support over 24 hours to rouse
> > themselves to getting to the email requests sent direct to them.
>
> Name and shame, please. This looks to be a vendor I want to strike off my
> list of potential suppliers.

FhcreZvpeb. Gurl'er n pbzcnal gung bapr lbh trg fbzrguvat svtherq bhg,
vg'f ebpx-fbyvq nf nyy uryy (bhe bgure sbhe 6.6GO ANF obkrf unir
uhzna-yvzvgrq hcgvzrf, naq gurl Whfg Jbex[0]). Ubjrire, jr unq n
fvzvyne rkcrevrapr nqqvat gur FZ VCZV pneqf gb bhe bgure sbhe znpuvarf;
gur qverpgvbaf tvira ol GSZ naq grpu fhccbeg ner nyzbfg rknpgyl gur
vairefr bs ernyvgl nf V unir svtherq bhg ubj gb jbex vg.

Once we have this machine figured out, we're most likely going to buy
more Just Like It, as we can't afford to buy things like this that work
the first time in the prototype device. We never have problems with the
copies,

> > The system was supposed to go into limited production last Monday, but
> > currently it might be going in next Monday. If things are broken in the
> > morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U server loaded with 16 disks far
> > enough to do more damage to the server than me...
>
> Why do you think they put handles on them?

Decoration? I'd assume one could hook each handle up to a nub off of a
12 kV pulse capacitor a buddy of mine has. That would be Pretty.[1]

--Matt

[0] for NFS values of "Just Work," but that's a rant for another day.

[1] Charging it to 4,000 V is enough to vaporize a small peach. The air
smells of a rather pleasant combination of ozone and peach after that.

Matthew Erickson

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Jul 11, 2007, 11:41:25 AM7/11/07
to
In article <slrnf99kr3...@abyss.ninehells.com>,

"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:18:53 -0500, Matthew Erickson wrote:
> > AND LASTLY, I think I've solved some of the problems by realizing that
> > gur qevirf jr tbg pnzr sebz gur snpgbel jvgu gur whzcre ranoyrq gung
> > sbeprq vg gb fcrnx gur FNGN-V vafgrnq bs FNGN-VV. However, this jumper
> > was so damn small and tiny that with my less than superb depth
> > perception, I thought it was simply colored plastic at the base of the
> > jumper pins.[3]
>
> ... bringing us back around to the kabbalistic notion to Always Read The
> Manuals, even if you think you know everything about this kind of
> device. Manufacturers are not only more devious that you imagine, etc.

TFM says everything comes configured to work right out of the factory.
TFM says elsewhere that the whole jumper block is for factory tweaks
elsewhere, don't touch. TFM says elsewhere that one set of jumpers is
for forcing the drive to work with The Older Version of The Protocol,
but I shouldn't need to set it.

Nowhere does it say "This comes jumpered by default, get out your
big-ass glasses and your tweezers!"

While I've screwed myself over plenty from not RTFM, I think the HD
venduh is too busy trying to save $3 on tech support costs. I bet that
there's an addendum in the retail box (we bought them all OEM) saying
that it's enabled by default. Anyone want to buy me a retail 750 GB
drive so I can, erm, test this theory?

-- Matt

TimC

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Jul 11, 2007, 1:01:01 PM7/11/07
to
On 2007-07-11, Matthew Erickson (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

> In article <f72aar$ocu$1...@mooli.org.uk>,
> ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) wrote:
>> Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
>> [...]
>> > The system was supposed to go into limited production last Monday, but
>> > currently it might be going in next Monday. If things are broken in the
>> > morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U server loaded with 16 disks far
>> > enough to do more damage to the server than me...
>>
>> Why do you think they put handles on them?
>
> Decoration?

Someone[1] tore off a plastic handle from a rack mounted power supply
in an instrument change last week. I think that piece of decoration
was not designed to support a sideways force trying to shift the
entire rack.

[1] Not me.[2]

[2] I instead dropped a vital piece of plastic[3] off the dome catwalk
onto a surface outside the building that can't be accessed at all,
some 40m off the ground. Oh well, it might turn up when the
de-asbestosisation is completed in a few months.

[3] That supports a wallclock I was using to take very precisely timed
photos to the nearest minute in a time lapse sequence of the shadow of
the dome travelling towards the distant horizon.

--
TimC Yesterday, after years of trying, I finally managed to take a
photo of a subway train that said "INSTRUCTION CAR" just so that someday I can
caption it "...but where's the DATA CDR?" when I'm ready to make a joke that's
nerdy even by the standards of jokes about LISP. -- James "Kibo" Perry

Kristof Provost

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Jul 11, 2007, 2:28:35 PM7/11/07
to
On 2007-07-11, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> In <peawee-3664D6....@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, on 07/11/2007
> at 02:18 AM, Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> said:
>
>>Based on what we have and can get, we decided to try moving over to
>>FNF onpxcynar-rdhvccrq punffvf jvgu Ovt Ubaxva' FNGN qevirf. If
>>that's UI, then well, I'd imagine you're having troubles figuring
>>out how to post here. Fine. Everyone and their brother says it's
>>compatible.
>
> And you believed them because? We (TINW) don't do trust here; we go to
> alt.sysadmin.nicey-nicey for that. Here we are paranoid.
>

Is it paranoia if they really _are_ out to get you?

>>If things are broken in the morning, I'm seeing if I can chuck a 3U
>>server loaded with 16 disks far enough to do more damage to the
>>server than me...
>
><UI>
> 3Al + Fe2O3 -> 3AlO + 2Fe + shiney!
><\UI>
>
> Touch off with a strip of Magnesium.
>
> I'll leave it to your professional judgement whether to just do the
> hardware or to also invite the salesman for the HEoE.
>

He found his way here. I'm pretty sure which way his professional judgement
will go. I'd do the same[2] to my herd of developers but the PHB won't let me.

I've tried to get tasers [0] but he keeps rejecting the order.

Kristof

[0] Jokingly of course. Actually buying and using them would be wrong[1].
[1] But so much fun.
[2] I doubt the result would be as spectacular [1].

Matthew Erickson

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Jul 11, 2007, 3:55:41 PM7/11/07
to
In article <nj9li.12387$hq1.9...@phobos.telenet-ops.be>,
Kristof Provost <kri...@provost-engineering.be> wrote:

Folks, a friend of mine has built what's currently the world's largest
solid-state tesla coil (14' arcs, thereabouts). And he has a 12 kV
pulse capacitor, capable of vaporizing peaches at 4 kV, and shooting .5
kg aluminum rings at over 250 mph via a coil of magnet wire.

As we've discovered some DOA hard drives now, I think this is a great
time to test what would happen to servers and salesmen connected to a
5000J capacitor.

-- Matt

Alan J. Wylie

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Jul 11, 2007, 3:55:59 PM7/11/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:56:16 GMT, "Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> said:

> ... bringing us back around to the kabbalistic notion to Always Read
> The Manuals,

A (young) cow-orker has just moved into a new house. The previous
occupants left their old washing machine behind. He commented that it
shook a great deal during the spin cycle. With the benefit of many
years experience of luser behaviour, I was able to suggest to him that
perhaps he checked that the transit bolts weren't still in place.

Well - two of them were, the third had sheared through.

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Brian Kantor

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Jul 11, 2007, 4:48:36 PM7/11/07
to
Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
>
>TFM says everything comes configured to work right out of the factory.

It came with a manual?
- Brian

mrob...@worldnet.att.net

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Jul 11, 2007, 6:54:02 PM7/11/07
to
Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
> Then, we find out that this backplane, made up of parts that all
> proclaim cross-compatibility with Both Types Of Drives, which was part
> of the chassis, was apparently having troubles with [FNGN] drives.

> Oops, sorry, no bother to tell you *before* you spent money on it.

BTDTGTTS about two or three years ago. That was the last time I dealt
with FNGN drives on a serious basis, coming away with the impression
that it wasn't quite ready yet. It's good to know things haven't
changed much. Oh, if you want to bolt one disk into your box and hook
it up to the FNGN connector and never change it for several years, it
works fine. But as soon as you start trying to do the Shiny! new
things FNGN is supposed to be able to do (like ubg fjnc), or try to do
boring old things like setting up an array, watch out. If you got it to
work, you had to record the model and firmware version numbers of
everything to the tenth decimal place and buy *ONLY* the same stuff if
you wanted to make a second one that worked like the first.

I am also mistrustful of FNGN connectors. They're _designed_ (at least
originally) to come apart easily, which is great for yanking the disk
out of the chassis quickly and hurling across the room for the fifth
time today. It's not so good when you want to ship a peecee and have it
still work when it gets to the other end, or to deploy a peecee in an
industrial or mobile environment.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the 4x VQR CD-ROM drive that shipped with
my cow back in 1995 just keeps chugging along, even if I plug it into
the Super Ultra Really Fast Slash Big Number VQR controller card I bought
two weeks ago. Of course, it's not a really great idea to have it on the
same cable as the hard disk I bought a month ago, but it always _works_,
even if it's slow.

In other news... some of these electrons are being paid for from the
proceeds of my very first conslutting job ever. If they had called me
sooner, I could have saved them even more money, but the checks haven't
bounced so far. Hooray conslutting!

Matt Roberds

Peter Corlett

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Jul 12, 2007, 7:02:32 AM7/12/07
to
Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
[...]
> [1] Charging it to 4,000 V is enough to vaporize a small peach. The air
> smells of a rather pleasant combination of ozone and peach after that.

Extreme Aromatherapy. ISAGN.


Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Mike Andrews

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Jul 12, 2007, 8:41:53 AM7/12/07
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:13:29 +0000 (UTC),
Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote in
<f755t9$s5u$1...@sheepdip.leftmind.net>:

> Matthew Erickson posted thus:


>>[1] Charging it to 4,000 V is enough to vaporize a small peach. The air
>>smells of a rather pleasant combination of ozone and peach after that.

> Mmmmm, I sense something that SWMBO would appreciate. How many uF
> would we be looking at, here?

Should I repost my story of fun and games in the capacitor factory? I
suspect that Matthew hasn't seen it, and may find it eerily familiar.

--
I keep $DRINK[1] in the car for emergencies. If I like the taste, it was
an emergency.
-- Roger Burton West, in the Monastery
[1] Originally Red Bull.

Dave

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Jul 12, 2007, 9:39:58 AM7/12/07
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 03:01:01 +1000, TimC wrote:


> [2] I instead dropped a vital piece of plastic[3] off the dome catwalk
> onto a surface outside the building that can't be accessed at all,
> some 40m off the ground. Oh well, it might turn up when the
> de-asbestosisation is completed in a few months.

You've got a catwalk above it and it's not accessible? FFS, a rope and
harness isn't that expensive, and there are enough people moving in and
out of Canberra that someone will know a climber or caver and can borrow
some gear.

Just make sure the OH&S officer is looking the other way.

--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
That's why I love VoIP. You don't get people phoning up to complain
that the network is down.- Peter Corlett, in the Monastery

Dave

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Jul 12, 2007, 9:43:44 AM7/12/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:48:36 +0000, Brian Kantor wrote:

> It came with a manual?

A PDF on the (non-functional) HDD would be about par for the course. I'm
sure I once had real-mode CD-ROM drivers shipped on a CD with the drive,
or something equally useless.

--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
And you don't think the government lets you buy _real_ tinfoil do you?
-- D.C. Ross, the Monastery.

Message has been deleted

Mike Andrews

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Jul 12, 2007, 10:18:57 AM7/12/07
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:59:26 +0000 (UTC),
Jeremy Worrells <worr...@xmission.xmission.com> wrote in
<slrnf9cctu....@xmission.xmission.com>:

> On 2007-07-12, Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:13:29 +0000 (UTC),
>> Anthony de Boer - USEnet <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote in
>> <f755t9$s5u$1...@sheepdip.leftmind.net>:
>>
>>> Matthew Erickson posted thus:
>>>>[1] Charging it to 4,000 V is enough to vaporize a small peach. The air
>>>>smells of a rather pleasant combination of ozone and peach after that.
>>
>>> Mmmmm, I sense something that SWMBO would appreciate. How many uF
>>> would we be looking at, here?
>>
>> Should I repost my story of fun and games in the capacitor factory? I
>> suspect that Matthew hasn't seen it, and may find it eerily familiar.

> Ohhh. Please, Uncle Mike? Tell us a story!

> Come sit down guys! Uncle Mike's telling a story!

> <sits down, eyes wide>

Over there! _YOU_! Get -- and stay -- quiet, or I'll Clickety-Click.

From the Glowbugs mailing list, a tale of a jobfh that makes being a
mere sysadmin look _good_, fun, and above all _safe_:

: I dropped out of college for a couple of years (ran out of money)
: and went to work at a capacitor factory (which will remain unnamed
: to protect the guilty) as a Quality Control Tech on the production
: line.

: The owner of the place was a MSEE, and the company specialized in
: VERY high voltage capacitors, and high voltage power supplies. We
: made a VERY good product, but the production line testing techniques
: were, to say the least, hair raising; I saw more than one tech quit
: after one day on the job.

: Typical hipot test, on an 8 MFD, 5 KV capacitor; put it on a table
: with a grounded metal top. The tech grabs a pair of home built test
: prods, connected to a high voltage supply with a variac on it, and
: applies the prods to the cap terminals.

: Specs called for charging the cap to 10 KV and holding it there for
: 1 minute.

: If the cap doesn't fail, so far so good. If it fails, it does it in
: one of a couple of modes.

: The GOOD failure mode; there is a sharp metallic click inside of the
: can as the sections arc inside of the oil and discharge.

: The BAD failure mode; the solder seals blow and oil sprays all over
: the place!

: What made it interesting every day... before starting work, we
: checked a wet bulb / dry bulb thermometer and using it's readings
: computed the humidity. If it was over 75%, we spent the day working
: on small, low voltage stuff. If you tried to charge anything big,
: sure as hell it would flash over to ground with a sound like a 12
: gauge shotgun going off in your face!

: Most of the line techs were habitually on sedatives and antacids
: because of the fear factor... and the Old Man in the corner office
: insisted that 10 KV was TOTALLY safe, and we had NOTHING to worry
: about!

: Anyway... you now have a 5 KV cap sitting there charged to 10 KV.
: What do you do with it NOW?

: VERY simple, Grasshopper.... there is a THIRD home made test probe.

: This one is tied to a bank of resistors mounted on a sheet of
: plywood. You use it to discharge this nasty little beastie.

: Not all that simple, really... it's an art that it took a couple of
: weeks to learn.

: You approach the cap like you'd approach a cobra that you're trying
: to milk for venom. SLOWLY... CAREFULLY... you move in with the
: resistor probe. You DON'T move in too fast, or you get another
: chorus of the 12 gauge Remington Pump Sonata in your face as it ALL
: lets go at once, flashing over the resistor bank.

: If you've done it RIGHT... about 6 inches from the terminal there is
: a beautiful purple streamer to the end of your probe, and a faint
: hiss as the juice goes to ground thru the resistor bank.

: Once you have the dragon stuffed back in his cage, the FIRST thing
: you do is grab one of the MANY spools of uninsulated wire lying
: everywhere and your diagonal cutters, and slap a shorting wire
: across the monster... like RIGHT NOW!

: Hairy procedure all around.

: One day a new directive came around. There was a bottleneck in the
: plant on larger capacitors; they were piling up waiting for hipot
: testing. We had only ONE high voltage testing cage (it took caps
: up to 100 KV working!), so to increase production flow the Old Man
: in the Corner Office decreed that open air testing like I just
: described would now be done on caps up to 15 KVDC working... which
: meant using hand probes about a yard long to charge to 30 KV!

: Two guys muttered obscenities along with the words "I Quit!" and
: stalked out the door. The rest of us said "No Way, Jose", and told
: the owner so in no uncertain terms!

: He came around and told us we were all cowards, and told us
: something we hadn't known about him (and which explained a lot
: really)... he'd gotten the money to start his company in London
: at the end of WW2; he'd stayed after the war & worked at DEFUSING
: UNEXPLODED BOMBS for a living!

: HE decided he'd show us how to do it, and he wanted no more bitching
: from the production line!

: The old boy grabbed the probes and a 2 MFD, 15 KV cap and had at it
: himself. EVERYBODY backed up a few yards to watch as he hoisted this
: ten pound beast onto the table top.

: You never saw such an exhibition of arcing and sparking in your
: life! Repeated shotgun blasts as that cap arced to probes, across
: insulators, and even to the steel beams that held up the building!
: Yard long test probes proved to be a good bit more awkward to handle
: than he'd thought they were.

: He FINALLY got it to 30 KV... and then went in with the resistor
: bank probe.

: Sometimes you just live right, or at least lucky. Before he got the
: probe to it the cap failed... in the BAD mode!

: There was a muffled WHOOMP! and the entire top, six inch insulator
: and all, went flying into the air as the solder seals blew out!
: That was followed by a flying spray of mineral oil, and a billion
: bits of paper and aluminum foil as the capacitor sections shredded
: themselves. It was like a cherry bomb went off inside of that
: capacitor... absolutely BEAUTIFUL, and the Old Man was COVERED with
: the flying debris as most of us dove for cover!

: Gathering up as much of his tattered dignity as he could he wiped
: off his oily glasses, put them back on, and a badly shaken MSEE
: walked away without a single word.

: Within the hour a new directive came out returning us to the old
: open air testing limit of 5 KV caps.

: Sometimes all it takes to restore sanity is for theory to meet
: reality head on...

: Mr. T., W9LBB

Sometimes you get the bear, boys and girls, and sometimes -- but only
once per customer -- the bear gets you. Get all the bears, before they
get you. Oh, and feed the sigmonster on the way out. It has a healthy
understanding of reality.

There'll be another story by and by.

--
"Paranoid" just means "a healthy understanding of the universe"
-- An attorney who wishes to remain unnamed,
on a list which also must remain unnamed,
on a day which also must remain unnamed.

Peter H. Coffin

unread,
Jul 12, 2007, 1:26:02 PM7/12/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:42:50 +0000 (UTC), Mike Andrews wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:56:16 GMT,
> Peter H. Coffin <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in
> <slrnf99kr3...@abyss.ninehells.com>:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:18:53 -0500, Matthew Erickson wrote:
>>> AND LASTLY, I think I've solved some of the problems by realizing that
>>> gur qevirf jr tbg pnzr sebz gur snpgbel jvgu gur whzcre ranoyrq gung
>>> sbeprq vg gb fcrnx gur FNGN-V vafgrnq bs FNGN-VV. However, this jumper
>>> was so damn small and tiny that with my less than superb depth
>>> perception, I thought it was simply colored plastic at the base of the
>>> jumper pins.[3]
>
>> ... bringing us back around to the kabbalistic notion to Always Read The
>> Manuals, even if you think you know everything about this kind of
>> device. Manufacturers are not only more devious that you imagine, etc.
>
>> Reading a manual revealed that a Certain Language's standard runtime
>> behavior changed between one release and the next such that if the
>> program read or wrote to a file that it knew was in a different charset
>> from what the program was running in, it would convert charset of the
>> data *on the fly, and silently*. Imagine the fun the first time the
>> program got run over a file full of Korean names.
>
> They _WHAAAAAAAAAAT_? W the _F_?
>
> Name and shame, please. I need to know the last good release and the
> first at which the runtime behavior changed, as well.

VOZ v5/BF does it, at least at v5r4. It didn't do it at v5r2; it left
utf-8 alone, and it was up to you to make something sensible out of it
since you were obviously running an EBCDIC machine. Now, you slap the
debugger on it and look at the bytes in memory, and that 1208 data is
now in EBCDIC... with 0x3F bytes where all that Hangul used to be. There
is a way around this, but it's potentially Useful. One can find it will
appropriate poking on the right newsgroup.

As I said, the change was documented. It's just that the solution was
not. It makes a certainly amount of pointy-haired sense when you look at
the problem of that with a couple dozen EBCDIC character sets, things
like á move around from codepoint to codepoint, and this does fix that.

>> Reading the manual means that we know WHY the file is full of 0x1A
>> characters, and roughly how to resolve the problem, and it becomes
>> a simple matter of time and resources to write the fixes to a dozen
>> large applications. Of course, in an hour, I'm off 110 miles away to a
>> meeting celebrating the anniversary of opening skill-based "Centers of
>> Excellence" instead of hacking on one of the applications, and fixing
>> the problem. At least the meeting will have lunch, and I can expense the
>> mileage at about $0.50 per mile, and my little car actually drinks less
>> than that even at today's fuel prices...
>
> You'll lose, overall, on the mileage expense, since wear-and-tear also
> should be figured in.

Probably. But the thing's more or less on borrowed time anyway. Nobody
really expects a US-made, mid-90's vehicle to last past 150,000 miles,
do they?

--
The pluses in my current job include laughing in the face of Nobel
laureates who have just lost the only copy of their data. (Hey,
I'm still a BOFH).
-- Bob Dowling

Julien Goodwin

unread,
Jul 12, 2007, 1:28:07 PM7/12/07
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:25:43 -0500, Matthew Erickson wrote:
> In article <f72aar$ocu$1...@mooli.org.uk>,
> ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) wrote:
>
>> Matthew Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
>> [...]
>> > After bitching about this a touch in my blog, a marketroid from The
>> > Chassis Maker comments something completely silly[2] in less than half an
>> > hour, while it typically takes their tech support over 24 hours to rouse
>> > themselves to getting to the email requests sent direct to them.
>>
>> Name and shame, please. This looks to be a vendor I want to strike off my
>> list of potential suppliers.
>
> FhcreZvpeb. Gurl'er n pbzcnal gung bapr lbh trg fbzrguvat svtherq bhg,
> vg'f ebpx-fbyvq nf nyy uryy (bhe bgure sbhe 6.6GO ANF obkrf unir
> uhzna-yvzvgrq hcgvzrf, naq gurl Whfg Jbex[0]). Ubjrire, jr unq n
> fvzvyne rkcrevrapr nqqvat gur FZ VCZV pneqf gb bhe bgure sbhe znpuvarf;
> gur qverpgvbaf tvira ol GSZ naq grpu fhccbeg ner nyzbfg rknpgyl gur
> vairefr bs ernyvgl nf V unir svtherq bhg ubj gb jbex vg.

Thanks for that. I'd almost forgotten the pain of that. Gur bgure sha
cnegf bs gurve VCZV pneqf ner gur i2 svezjner gung qbrfa'g npghnyyl qb
i2, naq gur ubeevq qbf onfrq gbby gung zhfg or ybpnyyl obbgrq ba
qvfxyrff znpuvarf. And if any of that's UI I suggest you go and buy a
large supply of bum wine for when the real pain starts.

Julien

Steve VanDevender

unread,
Jul 12, 2007, 2:42:42 PM7/12/07
to
ab...@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) writes:

Oh yes indeed. Even some less pleasant smells could be very
therapeutic; sometimes I imagine the smell of Extremely Charred Luser
could be rather nice under the right circumstances. ("I love the smell
of napalm in the morning . . . .")

For that matter, Extreme Aromatherapy for lusers could also be
therapeutic (for the BOFH), provided one has an airtight therapy chamber
with a viewing window, and aromas such as cyanide or chlorine for the
luser inside.

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
"bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!" -- the Swedish BOFH

Steve VanDevender

unread,
Jul 12, 2007, 2:53:35 PM7/12/07
to
I was going to suggest that what EBCDIC needs is its own extended
character encoding analogous to UTF-8, but then I discovered this:

uggc://jjj-306.voz.pbz/fbsgjner/tybonyvmngvba/ppfvq/ppfvq_ertvfgrerq.wfc

Which even subsumes several UTF-N encodings. Clearly this is a superior
standard and we should be rewriting our software to use this far more
comprehensive encoding scheme.

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Ignatios Souvatzis

unread,
Jul 12, 2007, 5:43:31 AM7/12/07
to
TimC cited:

> TimC Yesterday, after years of trying, I finally managed to take a
> photo of a subway train that said "INSTRUCTION CAR" just so that someday I
> can caption it "...but where's the DATA CDR?" when I'm ready to make a joke
> that's nerdy even by the standards of jokes about LISP. -- James "Kibo" Perry

Did he ever publish that photograph?

-is

Ignatios Souvatzis

unread,
Jul 12, 2007, 5:39:49 AM7/12/07
to
Mike Andrews wrote:

> Name and shame, please. I need to know the last good release and the
> first at which the runtime behavior changed, as well.

vi clone (I think vim) in .... what Linuxoid uses "emerge" for its
software updating?

It's especially interesting when it misjudges, because the damned html
files are written in iso-8859-1 and I don't want any utf-8 to creep in,
dammit.

Regards,
-is

Olivier Galibert

unread,
Jul 13, 2007, 7:31:03 PM7/13/07
to
On 2007-07-12, Ignatios Souvatzis <u50...@beverly.kleinbus.org> wrote:
> vi clone (I think vim) in .... what Linuxoid uses "emerge" for its
> software updating?

Gentoo. They tend not to change the code compared to upstream though.

OG.

Robert Uhl

unread,
Jul 14, 2007, 1:57:38 AM7/14/07
to
"Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> writes:
>
>> At least the meeting will have lunch, and I can expense the mileage
>> at about $0.50 per mile, and my little car actually drinks less than
>> that even at today's fuel prices...
>
> You'll lose, overall, on the mileage expense, since wear-and-tear also
> should be figured in.

A year or so back, I worked out total cost of ownership for my car,
including maintenance, insurance, fuel, taxes, purchase price,
depreciation and so forth. Worked out to 43 cents/mile. But then my
car's old enough to drive itself...

--
So I was reading Twelfth Night ... and would you believe that the I LOVE YOU
hoax is the exact same trick Shakespeare uses to point out what an arrogant,
self-absorbed fool Malvolio is? --Julia McKinnell

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

unread,
Jul 14, 2007, 11:19:20 PM7/14/07
to
In <f75sn2$k7r$1...@isis.novusordo.net>, on 07/12/2007
at 11:42 AM, Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu>
said:

>For that matter, Extreme Aromatherapy for lusers could also be
>therapeutic (for the BOFH), provided one has an airtight therapy
>chamber with a viewing window, and aromas such as cyanide or chlorine
>for the luser inside.


How about nonaroma therapy, in which the luser inhales H2F2 for 30
minutes or so. Don't do this at home.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

Message has been deleted

TimC

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 10:01:15 AM7/15/07
to
On 2007-07-15, Dave Brown (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> In article <m3ejjbl...@latakia.dyndns.org>,

> Robert Uhl <eadm...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> A year or so back, I worked out total cost of ownership for my car,
>> including maintenance, insurance, fuel, taxes, purchase price,
>> depreciation and so forth. Worked out to 43 cents/mile. But then my
>> car's old enough to drive itself...
>
> I just did that calculation with my motorbike. I've had it for two
> months: with insurance, maintenance, purchase price, gas and oil, it's
> already down to just a hair over a dollar a mile. (That is to say, 79
> yen per kilometre.) And of course that figure will go down the more I
> drive it. It's not *quite* profitable to expense mileage at $0.50/mi,
> but it should be within another couple of months.

My bicycle is pretty expensive to run, but that's because I keep
wanting to buy bling for it. Apparently my helmet camera is finally
being shipped, 3 months after I ordered it.

--
TimC
"Fsck! The fscking fscker's fscking fscked! FSCK!" -- via Mike Andrews in ASR

Julien Goodwin

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 12:50:46 PM7/15/07
to
TimCTV, just what the world needs.

Julien

TimC

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 1:01:17 PM7/15/07
to
On 2007-07-15, Julien Goodwin (aka Bruce)

was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

You say it like it's a bad thing.

--
TimC
You're trying to trick me into being intelligent. It won't work.
-- David P. Murphy in ASR

Maarten Wiltink

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 1:52:50 PM7/15/07
to
"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:4699a048$8$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...
[...]

> How about nonaroma therapy, in which the luser inhales H2F2 for 30
> minutes or so. Don't do this at home.

I hear HCN smells nice.

In completely unrelated news, I've been ordered at work to stop
making a nuisance of myself and use Outlook for mail like everybody
else.

I already use Outlook, like they all do. Now they want my mail to
look like they all do.

Pass the almonds.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink


Julian Macassey

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 2:03:50 PM7/15/07
to
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:52:50 +0200, Maarten Wiltink
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
>
> In completely unrelated news, I've been ordered at work to stop
> making a nuisance of myself and use Outlook for mail like everybody
> else.
>
> I already use Outlook, like they all do. Now they want my mail to
> look like they all do.

I have been down this road. I just ask them to articulate
what they want - Top posting - natch, all HTML, stationary and
bloat. They can't, they think that's what e-mail is and anything
else isn't, so they give up on me.

I love the blank looks I get when I say "HTML?". I think
the PHBs call that "formatted".

--
Like The Cheesecake Factory, the California Pizza Kitchen is a tax on
the stupid. - Tim May

Message has been deleted

Peter H. Coffin

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 4:25:02 PM7/15/07
to
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:53:35 -0700, Steve VanDevender wrote:
> I was going to suggest that what EBCDIC needs is its own extended
> character encoding analogous to UTF-8, but then I discovered this:
>
> uggc://jjj-306.voz.pbz/fbsgjner/tybonyvmngvba/ppfvq/ppfvq_ertvfgrerq.wfc
>
> Which even subsumes several UTF-N encodings. Clearly this is a superior
> standard and we should be rewriting our software to use this far more
> comprehensive encoding scheme.

I was chuckling at Codepage 1210 in that list, having encountered it
last week in the process of looking up something else...

--
6. I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

Mike Andrews

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 6:21:51 PM7/15/07
to
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:52:50 +0200,
Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote in
<469a5ef4$0$79139$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>:

> "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
> message news:4699a048$8$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...
> [...]
>> How about nonaroma therapy, in which the luser inhales H2F2 for 30
>> minutes or so. Don't do this at home.

> I hear HCN smells nice.

Two different chemists have told me that it smells like peach blossoms
and that if you can smell it at all, you need to sniff some Sodium
thiosulfate mist.

> In completely unrelated news, I've been ordered at work to stop
> making a nuisance of myself and use Outlook for mail like everybody
> else.

> I already use Outlook, like they all do. Now they want my mail to
> look like they all do.

> Pass the almonds.

Bitter, or ... ?


--
I'm always impressed by the Braille on wine bottle labels.
So far I've not been able to drink sufficient to find them useful.
I suppose that everybody needs goals.
-- Tony Quinn, possibly quoting someone else

Chris Suslowicz

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 6:31:27 PM7/15/07
to
In article <slrnf9kv24...@abyss.ninehells.com>,

"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:53:35 -0700, Steve VanDevender wrote:
>> I was going to suggest that what EBCDIC needs is its own extended
>> character encoding analogous to UTF-8, but then I discovered this:
>>
>> uggc://jjj-306.voz.pbz/fbsgjner/tybonyvmngvba/ppfvq/ppfvq_ertvfgrerq.wfc
>>
>> Which even subsumes several UTF-N encodings. Clearly this is a superior
>> standard and we should be rewriting our software to use this far more
>> comprehensive encoding scheme.
>
>I was chuckling at Codepage 1210 in that list, having encountered it
>last week in the process of looking up something else...

I normally stick to 285, makes life much easier (rkprcg jura gur qnzarq
hfref jnag gurve pbzcvyref ybpnyvmrq).

Chris.
(I shall *not* go into the discussion of the Euro symbol that led to
my having to explain that my 1980-vintage dumb terminal would *NOT*
under any circumstances be able to display that symbol....)

--
"Help! Help! Come see the violence inherent in the sysadmin!"
- Mike Sphar in Scary Devil Monastery

Dave

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 7:37:28 PM7/15/07
to
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:52:50 +0200, Maarten Wiltink wrote:

> In completely unrelated news, I've been ordered at work to stop
> making a nuisance of myself and use Outlook for mail like everybody
> else.

So you've been ordered to distribute various pieces of malware?
Interesting. Tell your boss "I love you" [1].

[1] I have a feeling that Outhouse shouldn't be susceptible to that one
anymore, but there shouldn't be a shortage of more recent examples.

--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"For is it not written, wheresoever two or three are gathered together,
yeay they will perform the Parrot Sketch." - Rob, in the SDM

Dave

unread,
Jul 15, 2007, 7:43:19 PM7/15/07
to
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:01:15 +1000, TimC wrote:

> My bicycle is pretty expensive to run, but that's because I keep
> wanting to buy bling for it. Apparently my helmet camera is finally
> being shipped, 3 months after I ordered it.

MPEG! MPEG! Or more importantly, which one did ya get?

The commuter bike before the previous one ran to something like
AUD 0.02/km: 10-15,000 km and a purchase & maintenance price of $300. The
current one with fewer k's on it and a bit of play is probably running at
around AUD 1/km, but that's only because it's only got about a thousand k
on it so far.

The play bikes would be somewhat more than that, since they get a lot
fewer km/breakage.

--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
"Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer."
- Peter da Silva

Kevin

unread,
Jul 16, 2007, 2:15:10 AM7/16/07
to
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:52:50 +0200, "Maarten Wiltink"
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:

>Pass the almonds.

Now now, be a good fellow and make nice with the program.

Here's your e-mail stationary:
uggc://gbz.nmngbz.vasb/zvfp/vzt/jc/ghk-jvasyl-xvyynu.1600k1200.wct

Remember to pick the finest font everyone has (and I do mean "finest") and
set the color to white to compliment your stationary.

Don't
Forget
Every
Line
Of
Your
Signature
File
Is
Important

Kevin

Kevin

unread,
Jul 16, 2007, 3:03:35 AM7/16/07
to
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:01:17 +1000, TimC
<tcon...@no.spam.accepted.here-astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:

>On 2007-07-15, Julien Goodwin (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:01:15 +1000, TimC wrote:
>>> My bicycle is pretty expensive to run, but that's because I keep
>>> wanting to buy bling for it. Apparently my helmet camera is finally
>>> being shipped, 3 months after I ordered it.
>>
>> TimCTV, just what the world needs.
>
>You say it like it's a bad thing.

BOFH II, Revenge of the alt.TimCTV.binaries

Kevin

Maarten Wiltink

unread,
Jul 16, 2007, 3:25:08 AM7/16/07
to
"Chris Suslowicz" <chris...@suslowicz.org> wrote in message
news:C2C05ECF...@192.168.1.23...
[...]

> (I shall *not* go into the discussion of the Euro symbol that led to
> my having to explain that my 1980-vintage dumb terminal would *NOT*
> under any circumstances be able to display that symbol....)

I have been spelling it as 'EUR' with great success for the last
eight years.

My brother, who didn't like the Euro, was very pleased with the
suggestion to spell it 'XEU' (ECU).

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink


Maarten Wiltink

unread,
Jul 16, 2007, 3:27:29 AM7/16/07
to
"Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:f7e6lv$vhc$2...@puck.litech.org...

> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:52:50 +0200,
> Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote in
> <469a5ef4$0$79139$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>:

<something>

> Bitter, or ... ?

Yes, I am. Is this where you all say 'welcome to the club'?
It is Monday morning, half an hour into the business day.
And I need a drink.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink


TimC

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Jul 16, 2007, 5:12:53 AM7/16/07
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On 2007-07-15, Dave (aka Bruce)

was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:01:15 +1000, TimC wrote:
>
>> My bicycle is pretty expensive to run, but that's because I keep
>> wanting to buy bling for it. Apparently my helmet camera is finally
>> being shipped, 3 months after I ordered it.
>
> MPEG! MPEG! Or more importantly, which one did ya get?

uggc://jjj.pnzrennpgvba.pbz.nh/cebqhpgf4o.nfc?fxh=177995&qrcg=64

I highly recommend checking with them *before* placing any order, that
they have plenty of stock in, otherwise Bevba are having a bit of
trouble keeping up supply.

--
TimC
Your fault (core dumped)

Stig M. Valstad

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Jul 16, 2007, 7:25:20 AM7/16/07
to
TimC wrote:
>> In article <m3ejjbl...@latakia.dyndns.org>,
>> Robert Uhl <eadm...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>> A year or so back, I worked out total cost of ownership for my car,
>>> including maintenance, insurance, fuel, taxes, purchase price,
>>> depreciation and so forth. Worked out to 43 cents/mile. But then my
>>> car's old enough to drive itself...
>
>My bicycle is pretty expensive to run, but that's because I keep
>wanting to buy bling for it. Apparently my helmet camera is finally
>being shipped, 3 months after I ordered it.

Should help you document the fuckwittery of those trying to
run you over.

I just worked out that my bicycle has cost me about NOK 1.60
or USD 0.25 per kilometre. Half that is cost of bying the thing
and most of the rest tyre-related costs because our streets are
paved with glass. Something motorized would cost quite a bit
more because most of my trips are fairly short. Work is 2.6 km
(6 km with a car) and city centre is 2.5 km away from home.

--
Stig M. Valstad

"Somehow the threat of nuclear holocaust isn't so bad when you
consider the alternatives." random

Peter Corlett

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Jul 16, 2007, 7:36:44 AM7/16/07
to
Stig M. Valstad <sti...@fredrikke.itea.ntnu.no> wrote:
[...]

> I just worked out that my bicycle has cost me about NOK 1.60 or USD 0.25
> per kilometre. Half that is cost of bying the thing and most of the rest
> tyre-related costs because our streets are paved with glass. Something
> motorized would cost quite a bit more because most of my trips are fairly
> short. Work is 2.6 km (6 km with a car) and city centre is 2.5 km away
> from home.

The fuel consumption of the last trip on my bike was about four miles per
gallon. I had a pretty sore head in the morning too.

TimC

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Jul 16, 2007, 7:47:43 AM7/16/07