How to wait three months

Robin Munn

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Feb 4, 2002, 2:42:44 PM2/4/02

to

Bujold's latest, _Diplomatic Immunity_, now has three sample chapters up
for perusal. Publication date: May 2002. Dammit, how am I supposed to
wait three months?

The pages are up at baen.com. I will not post a direct link, since
anyone who hasn't read Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series should not even
read the first three paragraphs, as they contain major spoilers.
Instead, run, don't walk, down to your local bookstore and purchase:

_Shards of Honor_
_Barrayar_
(the previous two can be found in one volume as _Cordelia's Honor_)
_The Warrior's Apprentice_
_The Vor Game_
(the previous two, along with one short story that chronologically
happens in between the two novels, can be found in one volume as
_Young Miles_)
_Cetaganda_
_Borders of Infinity_
_Brothers in Arms_
_Mirror Dance_
_Memory_
_Komarr_
_A Civil Campaign_

And read them in the order given. Not, I repeat *NOT*, in any other
order.

ISBN's? I'm too lazy. All of the above were written by Lois McMaster
Bujold -- *you* go look up ISBN's, if you're that obsessed with them.

And yes, apostrophe-ess is the correct way of pluralizing an acronym.

Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
all loaned out right now. Dammit.

--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com

Mike Andrews

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Feb 4, 2002, 4:01:43 PM2/4/02

to

Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:

: Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're

: all loaned out right now. Dammit.

Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.

Listen to me, now.

You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.

Got it?

--
"And now the traveler's weather report from Luna: Dayside will be
hot, dry, and clear. Nightside will be cold, dry and clear.
Please dress accordingly."
-- Danny Sichel, in rasfw

D. Joseph Creighton

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Feb 4, 2002, 4:18:13 PM2/4/02

to

In the last exciting episode, Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
}Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
}: Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
}: all loaned out right now. Dammit.
}
}Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
}
}Listen to me, now.
}
}You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
}
}Got it?

Such a calming tone. And what clarity.

I nominate MikeA to be the official Tense Situation[1] Negotiator for the
Monastery.

[1] Hostage negotiation? Ha! The only arguments there are how to finish
the luser off and, perhaps, how to dispose of the body. But we've already
done that thread.
--
"Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." - Rita Mae Brown
D. Joseph Creighton [ESTP] | Systems Analyst, Database Technologies, IST
Joe_Cr...@UManitoba.CA | University of Manitoba Winnipeg, MB, Canada, eh?

Robin Munn

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Feb 4, 2002, 4:58:27 PM2/4/02

to

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:01:43 GMT, Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>: Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
>: all loaned out right now. Dammit.
>
>Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
>
>Listen to me, now.
>
>You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
>
>Got it?

You're right, of course; what was I thinking, having only one set? I
shall run, not walk, to the bookstore and remedy this mistake
immediately. Well, once I'm home from work, anyway.

--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

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Feb 5, 2002, 10:06:51 AM2/5/02

to

In <slrna5tor...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/04/2002

at 07:42 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:

>Bujold's latest, _Diplomatic Immunity_, now has three sample chapters
>up for perusal. Publication date: May 2002. Dammit, how am I supposed
>to wait three months?

The same as the rest of us. Like the cat that ate a chunk of cheese
and sat by the mouse hole waiting withe baited breathe. I endorse your
recommendation that those who have not read the earlier stories do so
now. Most enjoyable. There was one scene in particular[1] that was
hilarious[2].

[1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
"Gjvg!" </spoiler>.

[2] No, these are not comic novels. But there is some humor,
especially in the last one.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
"He was born with a gift of laughter,
and a sense that the world was mad."

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

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Feb 5, 2002, 10:10:04 AM2/5/02

to

In <a3mtql$otm$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, on 02/04/2002
at 09:18 PM, d...@cc.umanitoba.ca (D. Joseph Creighton) said:

>[1] Hostage negotiation?

If I'm ever in that situation I want the negotiations to be done by
snipers. I may not survive, but when I die I'll have an honor guard.
Pay no ransom and take no prisoners.

Mike Andrews

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Feb 5, 2002, 1:29:04 PM2/5/02

to

D. Joseph Creighton <d...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:

: I nominate MikeA to be the official Tense Situation[1] Negotiator for the
: Monastery.

Fsc^WThank you very much.

: [1] Hostage negotiation? Ha! The only arguments there are how to finish

: the luser off and, perhaps, how to dispose of the body. But we've already
: done that thread.

We don't do hostage negotiation. At the point that one or more
people are taken hostage, we start behaving as if they're dead
already. This is reasonable since we have no control over the
actions of the hostage-takers, and they have shown themselves
amoral and willing to do anything.

So we go in with fire and sword and clean out the hostage-takers.
Every time.

IIRC, this is roughly the way the Soviet armed forces handled
such things, and it was effective.

--
You're not missing anything, unless you
*want* a deodorant that saves time by smelling like sweat already.
-- Red Drag Diva, in a.s.r.

David P. Murphy

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Feb 5, 2002, 3:59:46 PM2/5/02

to

"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:

(discussing Bujold's works)

> [1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
> "Gjvg!" </spoiler>.

Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."

ok
dpm
--
David P. Murphy http://www.myths.com/~dpm/
systems programmer ftp://ftp.myths.com
mailto:d...@myths.com (personal)
COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO mailto:Murphy...@emc.com (work)

Robin Munn

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Feb 6, 2002, 11:30:34 AM2/6/02

to

On 5 Feb 2002 20:59:46 GMT, David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>(discussing Bujold's works)
>
>> [1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
>> "Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
>
>Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."

Amen to that. Vg'f nyjnlf gur dhvrg barf... :-)

--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com

Robin Munn

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Feb 6, 2002, 11:38:06 AM2/6/02

to

On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:06:51 -0500, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>In <slrna5tor...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/04/2002
> at 07:42 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:
>
>>Bujold's latest, _Diplomatic Immunity_, now has three sample chapters
>>up for perusal. Publication date: May 2002. Dammit, how am I supposed
>>to wait three months?
>
>The same as the rest of us. Like the cat that ate a chunk of cheese
>and sat by the mouse hole waiting withe baited breathe. I endorse your
>recommendation that those who have not read the earlier stories do so
>now. Most enjoyable. There was one scene in particular[1] that was
>hilarious[2].
>
>[1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
>"Gjvg!" </spoiler>.

I rather enjoyed the scene where Zvyrf tvirf n qvaare cnegl naq
*rirelguvat* tbrf jebat. "Zl qvaare cnegl. Vg'f whfg oernxvat hc." (Naq
fvaxvat. Nyy fbhyf srnerq ybfg.) [...] "Zbz, Qnq, V'q yvxr lbh gb zrrg
-- fur'f trggvat njnl!"

I'd better stop before I start quoting the entire series.

[2] NMF

--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com

cfo...@bbn.com

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Feb 6, 2002, 2:14:10 PM2/6/02

to

I seem to recall that Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> said:
> Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> : Now I've got to re-read my collection of Bujold books. Oh wait, they're
> : all loaned out right now. Dammit.
>
> Robin! Put the keyboard down and back away.
>
> Listen to me, now.
>
> You were supposed to loan out the _loaner_ set. Only that set.
>
> Got it?

<gloat>
I have the Easton press signed first editions of Barrayar and ACC.
</gloat>

I've even loaned them to trusted[0] friends.

Hell, I have Barrayar on my prism, in case I find myself too far
from the bookshelf :).

Great books. I would also recommend The Curse of Chalion, to pass
the time till Diplomatic Immunity comes out. Totally different,
but the same, IYGMM.

Chris

0. trusted --> Understands that violence would ensue if anything
untoward were to happen to my books.

--
Christopher Fortin, Ph.D. EE, Senior_Scientist@BBN <par...@elderhome.org>
"You need to hit them with the Clue by four"

Maarten Wiltink

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Feb 6, 2002, 4:46:29 PM2/6/02

to

Mike Andrews wrote in message ...
[...]

>So we go in with fire and sword and clean out the hostage-takers.
>Every time.
>
>IIRC, this is roughly the way the Soviet armed forces handled
>such things, and it was effective.

Ahum. Controlling the press might be a prerequisite.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

D. Joseph Creighton

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Feb 6, 2002, 7:49:49 PM2/6/02

to

You've read _Rainbow Six_ too, then?
--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Mike Andrews

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Feb 6, 2002, 11:06:40 PM2/6/02

to

Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
: Mike Andrews wrote in message ...

Fsck the press, or put a "we do this so our people won't be taken
hostage. there's no return in it, and a huge downside" spin on
it. That's the truth, too, in that scenario.

--
Remember the signs in restaurants "We reserve the right to refuse
service to anyone"? The spammers twist it around to say "we reserve
the right to serve refuse to anyone."
-- SPAMJAMR & Blackthorn in nanae

David P. Murphy

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Feb 7, 2002, 12:40:07 PM2/7/02

to

Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:

> anyone who hasn't read Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series (blahblahblah)

That would be me.

> (list of books)

> And read them in the order given. Not, I repeat *NOT*, in any other
> order.

That was right neighborly of you. Fortunately the Fairfax County
Public Library system is good enough to stock all of those. I'm
up to page 89 of _Shards_ right now. Yes, of course I checked out
all of them at once. I'm not gonna go through withdrawal just
because I finish the first three and the fourth isn't available!

Jay Maynard

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Feb 7, 2002, 2:07:37 PM2/7/02

to

On 5 Feb 2002 20:59:46 GMT, David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:

>"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>(discussing Bujold's works)
>> [1] <spoiler> Va N Pvivy Pnzcnvta, arne gur raq. Jura fur fnvq
>> "Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
>Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."

I've read this, but can't place it. I've been meaning to dig out the Honor
Harrington series for a reread...but that can wait until after I've finished
The Shiva Option. Saw it in hardback at an airport bookstore yesterday, and
had to grab it.

J. Michael Looney

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Feb 7, 2002, 2:16:08 PM2/7/02

to

In article <slrna65k3p....@thebrain.conmicro.cx>,
jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx says...

"Gjvg!" </spoiler>.
>>Similarly, Weber's "Bbcf."
>
>I've read this, but can't place it. I've been meaning to dig out the Honor
>Harrington series for a reread...but that can wait until after I've finished
>The Shiva Option. Saw it in hardback at an airport bookstore yesterday, and
>had to grab it.

Nfurf bs Ivpgbel. Funeba, gur CEA "trrx tvey" whfg oyrj hc gur PCF
"jngpuqbt" syrrg

Robin Munn

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Feb 7, 2002, 2:41:18 PM2/7/02

to

On 7 Feb 2002 17:40:07 GMT, David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> anyone who hasn't read Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series (blahblahblah)
>
>That would be me.
>
>> (list of books)
>
>> And read them in the order given. Not, I repeat *NOT*, in any other
>> order.
>
>That was right neighborly of you. Fortunately the Fairfax County
>Public Library system is good enough to stock all of those. I'm
>up to page 89 of _Shards_ right now. Yes, of course I checked out
>all of them at once. I'm not gonna go through withdrawal just
>because I finish the first three and the fourth isn't available!

No, you're going to go through withdrawal just because you finished the
first ten and the eleventh isn't available.

And you thought that I thought this was a.s.n-n, didn't you? No, I've
just made sure that in a week, two at the most, you'll be suffering
along with the rest of us... Mwuahahahahaaaa!!!

--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com

David P. Murphy

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Feb 7, 2002, 4:33:08 PM2/7/02

to

You have vastly overestimated the amount of CFT I possess.
Besides, the n-n part was telling me (and others) the proper order.

Robin Munn

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Feb 7, 2002, 5:24:54 PM2/7/02

to

On 7 Feb 2002 21:33:08 GMT, David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:

>Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> And you thought that I thought this was a.s.n-n, didn't you? No, I've
>> just made sure that in a week, two at the most, you'll be suffering
>> along with the rest of us... Mwuahahahahaaaa!!!
>
>You have vastly overestimated the amount of CFT I possess.
>Besides, the n-n part was telling me (and others) the proper order.

Nah, that wasn't n-n, that was just making sure things were done
properly. It Would Be Wrong to allow anyone to read Bujold out of order.

And as for the amount of CFT, just wait and watch as that series starts
devouring your sleep time...

--
Robin Munn
rm...@pobox.com

David P. Murphy

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Feb 8, 2002, 11:05:57 AM2/8/02

to

Robin Munn <rm...@pobox.com> wrote:

> Nah, that wasn't n-n, that was just making sure things were done
> properly. It Would Be Wrong to allow anyone to read Bujold out of order.

Oh, similar to telling someone to run Apache instead of IIS? I see.

> And as for the amount of CFT, just wait and watch as that series starts
> devouring your sleep time...

Bah. What do you think Connor's purpose in life is?[1]

[1] anyone who thinks I'm just trying to be funny and/or clever is
welcome to raise a one-year-old, because obviously you haven't yet.

unread,

Feb 10, 2002, 2:15:41 PM2/10/02

to

In <a456to$p9m$2...@reader2.panix.com>, on 02/10/2002

at 07:19 AM, INVALID...@example.com (J.D. Baldwin) said:

>When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
>controllable.[1]

>[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.

Every time someone says "I don't believe in theories.", another
theory dies. A creeper can get into more than you would ever believe.

Tanuki the Raccoon-dog

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Feb 10, 2002, 3:13:26 PM2/10/02

to

In <a456to$p9m$2...@reader2.panix.com>, J.D. Baldwin
<INVALID...@example.com> said

>YM "Toddling Horror" I think.
>
>When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
>controllable.[1]
>
>[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.

Though the use of electric fences to control their movements is likely
to result in unfavourable comments...

Personally, I think that kids are like wines - only very few of them
actually get better with age.
--
!Raised Tails! -:Tanuki:-
"I have seen the future, and it drools"

jgut...@brokersys.com

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Feb 10, 2002, 10:01:49 PM2/10/02

to

Rhiannon is 5 and has been sort-of reading for some time, but I expect
it'll be, oh, eight or so years before I have to worry about her doing
Usenet. Robert is only three, so I expect it'll be about ten years.
Doing Usenet requires more than just the ability to read.

In twenty, I expect I'll be hearing on a regular basis about the things
I've said here.
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate

Alan J Rosenthal

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Feb 11, 2002, 12:54:47 PM2/11/02

to

Lionel <n...@alt.net> writes:
><nods> Hell, mine manages to get into trouble just by *rolling*,

Giggle, yes. I was astonished, when Jeremy was not yet able to crawl, that he
somehow managed to move across the room, eventually. He'd be getting into
something he wasn't supposed to, I'd pick him up and plonk him at the other
side of the room, he'd continue doing his baby things, but then amazingly in
several minutes he'd be back on the bad side of the room.

("There is no bad side of the room really. Matter of fact it's all bad.")

The other thing I recall, from a bit later on, is how we removed all
books from the bottom shelves... then a little later we removed all
books from the second-to-bottom shelves... and so on... and when we moved,
we didn't bother unpacking most of the boxes of books...

david parsons

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Feb 13, 2002, 10:31:04 PM2/13/02

to

In article <8vqhwLAm...@canismajor.demon.co.uk>,

Tanuki the Raccoon-dog <Tanuki@canis-^Hmajor.da^Hemon.co.uk> wrote:
>In <a456to$p9m$2...@reader2.panix.com>, J.D. Baldwin
><INVALID...@example.com> said
>>YM "Toddling Horror" I think.
>>
>>When they're still "creeping" they're cute and more or less still
>>controllable.[1]
>>
>>[1] In the "everything is relative" sense.
>
>Though the use of electric fences to control their movements is likely
>to result in unfavourable comments...

For about a week, and then the firemen will just laugh at you after
they put out the fire that was caused by the Pedestrian Of The
Apocolypse shorting out the fence with a metal chair (or whatever
else makes a durable ground.)

Your only hope is to keep moving things above the slime line until
they learn a language and are able to be reasoned with.

____
david parsons \bi/ This happens about 25 years after birth.
\/

Stuart Lamble

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Feb 13, 2002, 11:04:49 PM2/13/02

to

In article <a4fb1o$l...@pell.pell.portland.or.us>, david parsons wrote:
> Your only hope is to keep moving things above the slime line until
> they learn a language and are able to be reasoned with.
>
> ____
> david parsons \bi/ This happens about 25 years after birth.
> \/

Really? My parents are still waiting for the day with me. (I'm 26.)

*ducks*

--
"You didn't slay the dragon?!"
"It's on my to-do list, now come on!"
-- Shrek.

David P. Murphy

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Feb 15, 2002, 11:14:10 AM2/15/02

to

Randy the Random <ra...@bradakis.net> wrote:
> Alan J Rosenthal muttered:

>>The other thing I recall, from a bit later on, is how we removed all
>>books from the bottom shelves... then a little later we removed all
>>books from the second-to-bottom shelves... and so on... and when we moved,
>>we didn't bother unpacking most of the boxes of books...

> We just allowed her to own the bottom two shelves. All her books (about
> two meters of shelf so far) and many toys live on the living room
> bookshelves.

> Get more shelf space, give up the lower parts.

SWMBO and I completely renovated the kitchen recently (worthy of a few
lengthy rants in itself, but not now, the pain still cuts) because a friend
gave us her cabinets[1]. It took a lot of skull sweat[2] to design the
optimal placement of the replacements and an equal number of new ones[3]
along with new appliances[4] and countertop[5]. The last sore spot was
near the door to the dining room; a touch of inspiration at the last minute
was a rounded corner with shelves dedicated to Connor. It's worked out
wonderfully . . . he loves to keep his little cars and trucks there to
play with while Mom is fixing meals (it's just the right height) and it
makes the other cabinets look like they were designed for the room.

http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg

[1] She worked at AOL at just the right time and did smart things
with her options --- she'll never work again. She purchased
a large house, decided that she didn't like the perfectly good
kitchen and gutted it; the cabinets which weren't up to her
standards were *much* nicer than our existing cabinets and
just as good as any new ones we could afford to buy, except
for slight tarnishing on the hinges.

[2] Note the influence of the current RAH thread on my vocabulary.

[3] One bright note was the cabinet company did an excellent job
matching wood, color and pattern.

[4] In for a penny . . .

[5] Holy shit, corian is expensive! And it's _still_ cheaper than granite!

David P. Murphy

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Feb 15, 2002, 11:43:24 AM2/15/02

to

David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> posted at 15 Feb 2002 16:14:10 GMT:

> http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg

$ tail -f access_log
tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net - - [15/Feb/2002:11:18:21 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
204.177.130.13 - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:08 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
ct37111-a.nblvil1.in.home.com - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:57 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137

This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly,
that someone is reading so soon after I post, and that they're
interested enough to download a 70 Kb image.

Mike Andrews

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Feb 15, 2002, 11:50:18 AM2/15/02

to

David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:

: David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> posted at 15 Feb 2002 16:14:10 GMT:

:> http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg

: $ tail -f access_log
: tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net - - [15/Feb/2002:11:18:21 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
: 204.177.130.13 - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:08 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
: ct37111-a.nblvil1.in.home.com - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:57 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137

: This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly,
: that someone is reading so soon after I post, and that they're
: interested enough to download a 70 Kb image.

_Damn, that's _nice_! And that's the cabinetry she junked? The
stuff she got must be extraordinary. Maybe it's even put together
with screws, unlike the supposedly top-of-the-line stuff we got
15 (That long ago!?!) years back, which turned out to be held
together with hot glue and long, skinny staples. IIRC, it's
someone's "Saturn" line.

It's fine, once you pull all the handles off, scrape 'em down,
and reglue with Titebond or equivalent. I haven't had to put any
drawers or shelves back together yet ... .

And as for reading a 70KB file -- that's teeny.

--
"Salesman genes. Lies built right into the DNA."
-- Walter Jon Williams, _Whirlwind_

Peter Corlett

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Feb 15, 2002, 11:58:29 AM2/15/02

to

David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:

[...]

> This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly, that someone
> is reading so soon after I post, and that they're interested enough to
> download a 70 Kb image.

I noticed this in $OTHER_PLACE. I had about ten visitors within as many
minutes, followed by a post that pretty much confirmed that I should see a
shrink.

What they don't know is that there's more scripts that haven't made it to my
web site yet.

Jasper Janssen

unread,

Feb 15, 2002, 12:39:38 PM2/15/02

to

On 15 Feb 2002 16:43:24 GMT, d...@myths.com (David P. Murphy) wrote:

>David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> posted at 15 Feb 2002 16:14:10 GMT:
>
>> http://www.murphyfamily.org/public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg
>
>$ tail -f access_log
>tomato.ulcc.wwwcache.ja.net - - [15/Feb/2002:11:18:21 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
>204.177.130.13 - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:08 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
>ct37111-a.nblvil1.in.home.com - - [15/Feb/2002:11:19:57 -0500] "GET /public/gen10/david+wendy/kitchen/200112140003.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 70137
>
>This always impresses me . . . that it propogates so quickly,
>that someone is reading so soon after I post, and that they're
>interested enough to download a 70 Kb image.

Those look damn nice. I'm not much of a dark-wood + brass handles man
myself, but still.. They look like they're decent quality stuff, with real
wood and things, instead of (veneered/formicaed) standard fibreboard[1]
and hard-board[2] backs slotted together in a flatpackish way.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a modern 'system' kitchen made in
real wood.[3] Wow.

Jasper

[1] The stuff that's like MDF, only much larger wood particles and less
glue.

[2] Dunno if that's the term. 2-3 mm thick, smooth on one side, rough on
the other, made from a sort of material midway between MDF and
fibreboard..

[3] The 1950-built-and-still-in-place kitchen of my grandmother doesn't
really count as 'modern' or as 'system', IMHO, as it is custommade of real
wood.

Satya

unread,

Feb 15, 2002, 5:30:16 PM2/15/02

to

On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:50:18 GMT, Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>And as for reading a 70KB file -- that's teeny.

No, 70kB isn't effing teeny. This is how you get bloat.

70kB, over the expected monkish network connections, not on a webpage, for
a photograph, is okay.

--
Satya.

Ralph Wade Phillips

unread,

Feb 15, 2002, 8:48:28 PM2/15/02

to

Grr ...

"Jasper Janssen" <jas...@insaneoc.com> wrote in message
news:pfhq6uo0avqb9285r...@4ax.com...

>
> Come to think of it, I've never seen a modern 'system' kitchen made in
> real wood.[3] Wow.

>

> [3] The 1950-built-and-still-in-place kitchen of my grandmother doesn't
> really count as 'modern' or as 'system', IMHO, as it is custommade of real
> wood.

Would you take "hand made on an assembly line" for a system?

My wife's older brother does suchlike for his customers - there's a
plant in Shreveport that does nothing but cabinets, and will do
Gen-You-Whine wood if you ask for it.

RwP

Måns Nilsson

unread,

Feb 16, 2002, 5:42:53 AM2/16/02

to

Thus spoke Satya:

What is a monkish connection? At 'ork, the factor limiting my net
access is the driver in my pc, and the Crashco Catastrof
bad-excuse-for-a-switch, beyond that it's Gig speeds, at least. Yes, we
have a GSR as office router. "This concept of yours, firewalls, what is
that?"

11:30:46 (15.69 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]

At home? 400kbit DSL, symmetric.

11:27:19 (17.38 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]

Notable is the difference in speed, which is in the opposite direction
from actual speed -- work is significantly faster in every aspect. Oh,
well. My personal limit for "what the heck" is around the 2MB region,
anything above that better be good.
--
Måns Nilsson MN1334-RIPE
http://vvv.besserwisser.org

Satya

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Feb 16, 2002, 2:54:26 PM2/16/02

to

On 16 Feb 2002 10:42:53 GMT, Måns Nilsson <mans...@igloo.df.lth.se> wrote:
>Thus spoke Satya:

>>70kB, over the expected monkish network connections, not on a webpage, for
>>a photograph, is okay.
>
>What is a monkish connection? At 'ork, the factor limiting my net

>11:30:46 (15.69 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]

>11:27:19 (17.38 KB/s) - `200112140003.jpg' saved [70137/70137]

>
>Notable is the difference in speed, which is in the opposite direction
>from actual speed -- work is significantly faster in every aspect. Oh,

That is what I meant.

>well. My personal limit for "what the heck" is around the 2MB region,
>anything above that better be good.

At those sizes, it'd better be a TIFF that needs processing in some
way. Sub-200kB JPEGs are good enough for everything else.

--
Satya.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

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Feb 18, 2002, 8:57:34 AM2/18/02

to

In <slrna62mbd...@rmunn.dyndns.org>, on 02/06/2002
at 04:30 PM, rm...@pobox.com (Robin Munn) said:

>Amen to that. Vg'f nyjnlf gur dhvrg barf... :-)

An interesting rotism. Puts a whole new meaning to the phrase "He's
the one."

Peter Dalgaard BSA

unread,

Feb 18, 2002, 1:18:51 PM2/18/02

to

der...@bitflood.net (Derick Siddoway) writes:

> It is said by some that David P. Murphy once wrote:
>
> > [5] Holy shit, corian is expensive! And it's _still_ cheaper than granite!
>

> Yeah, I know. My parents redid their kitchen a couple of years ago
> and did corian. So we thought we'd be doing the same thing when we
> built our house. NOT! That stuff is not just expensive, it's
> amazingly expensive. So our compromise is to use granite tile for
> the counter tops. Still expensive, but not nearly what a custom
> piece of either granite or corian would be.

Just curious, what price ranges are we talking about? We're having
ours done these days, and even stainless steel gets dwarfed by the
workman costs...

--
O__ ---- Peter Dalgaard Blegdamsvej 3
c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics 2200 Cph. N
(*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen Denmark Ph: (+45) 35327918
~~~~~~~~~~ - (p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk) FAX: (+45) 35327907

Peter Dalgaard BSA

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Feb 18, 2002, 4:29:57 PM2/18/02

to

der...@bitflood.net (Derick Siddoway) writes:

> > Just curious, what price ranges are we talking about? We're having
> > ours done these days, and even stainless steel gets dwarfed by the
> > workman costs...
>

> My parents had theirs done (with integrated sink) for about $7500.
> Our house had quite a bit more surface to cover, so it was going to
> be nearly double that for corian. It would have been nearly triple
> that for granite, IIRC.

Eep! US kitchens are larger than DK ones (I'm assuming that that is
USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
a slightly larger but irregular steel plate with integrated sink.
However, skilled labour seems to start at $2k/project/craft, and we
needed a mason, carpenter, painter, plumber, electrician...

Satya

unread,

Feb 18, 2002, 6:43:04 PM2/18/02

to

On 18 Feb 2002 22:29:57 +0100, Peter Dalgaard BSA

<p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for

What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
that much?

[0] Don't restart that threadlet.

--
Satya.

Mike Andrews

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:10:54 PM2/18/02

to

Derick Siddoway <der...@bitflood.net> wrote:

: ... nevermind that
: granite is more money and it needs to be molded to the countertop
: and then installed properly. Sheesh!

Erm ... Molding granite isn't all that easy. Mama Nature does it,
but I wasn't aware that we had managed to copy her and get usable
yields in reasonable times.

--
| "Things can happen to browsers in magical libraries that can
| make having your face pulled off by tentacled monstrosities
+------------+ from the Dungeon Dimensions seem a mere light
mi...@mikea.ath.cx| massage by comparison." -- Pterry

David P. Murphy

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Feb 19, 2002, 11:14:20 AM2/19/02

to

Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2002 22:29:57 +0100, Peter Dalgaard BSA
> <p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
>>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
>>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for

> What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
> dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
> that much?

A year ago I would have laughed at such an obvious stupid typo.
Now that I am older and poorer, I can easily believe that price;
I would never pay that much myself, but I can believe it.

Welcome to my kitchen:

+-----=========----------------+
|+-----------------+ |
|| SINK DW | FRIDGE |
|| +-------------+ |
|| |
|| |
|+---+
| OVEN ---+|
|STOVE / ||
|+---+ | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|+---+ | ||
| | ||
| ||
+---------+ ||
| ||
| +-------------+|
+----- -----------------+

Two L shapes and a rectangle. When you order countertops,
you pay by the linear foot (assuming standard depth of 24 inches)
and L shapes are the sum of both dimensions, which makes you
feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal
at "Old Friends" prices, believe it or not. Granite only comes
in natural colors (which tend to be dark and hard to match with
the colors you've already picked out), is easily scratched, and
costs twice as much. Corian was about five times the cost of
the usual stuff covered in formica, but we[1] are very happy
with the decision, especially that deep (9 inches) integerated
two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.

As far as molding, I've been told that granite is a bitch and
you usually end up saying "screw it", but I don't know firsthand.
I did watch the woman fit the corian to the door frames ---
a very nice job she did, and with about as much effort as it
took me to write the "uudecode" routine yesterday[2].

[1] "we" meaning SWMBO of course

[2] very little

Matt Olson

unread,

Feb 19, 2002, 12:15:39 PM2/19/02

to

David P. Murphy (d...@myths.com) wrote:

> Welcome to my kitchen:
>
> +-----=========----------------+
> |+-----------------+ |
> || SINK DW | FRIDGE |
> || +-------------+ |
> || |
> || |
> |+---+
> | OVEN ---+|
> |STOVE / ||
> |+---+ | ||
> || | | ||
> || | | ||
> || | | ||
> |+---+ | ||
> | | ||
> | ||
> +---------+ ||
> | ||
> | +-------------+|
> +----- -----------------+

*blink*

Oh.

I think I've been playing too much nethack lately.

Cheers,
Matt
--
Matt "JAPH" Olson, speaking for himself.
"And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing
what the dictionary says it means, you go to jail. No exceptions."
-- David Jones

seanna watson

unread,

Feb 19, 2002, 3:46:51 PM2/19/02

to

In article <a4ttks$r2b$3...@allhats.xcski.com>,

David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>

>Two L shapes and a rectangle. When you order countertops,
>you pay by the linear foot (assuming standard depth of 24 inches)
>and L shapes are the sum of both dimensions, which makes you
>feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
>the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
>is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
>cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal
>at "Old Friends" prices, believe it or not. Granite only comes
>in natural colors (which tend to be dark and hard to match with
>the colors you've already picked out), is easily scratched, and
>costs twice as much. Corian was about five times the cost of
>the usual stuff covered in formica, but we[1] are very happy
>with the decision, especially that deep (9 inches) integerated
>two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.

Scratch? Granite? Perhaps if you use a diamond saw to slice your
bread. Corian is sold as "scratch resistant, and if you scratch
it you can just sand it out", but you can certainly gouge it with
a knife. Try that with granite and you'll just wreck your knife.

Of course it's all a matter of taste, but we fell in love with the
granite (actually gneiss) counter-top when we were looking into
kitchen renovations, and based the rest of the decorating scheme
on the "big rocks". Around here (.on.ca east), granite and corian
are both $100-150CDN/linear foot - in our case, the granite came
in about $10-20 cheaper than the Corian. We were impressed with
the installation - the sink was mounted under the matching
irregular-shaped rounded hole, the backsplash matched, the counter
was perfectly level. The only thing they missed was rounding off
one corner, and they came back and did that in situ.

--
seanna <at> nortelnetw orks <dot> com
Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. I
think it's in my basement...let me go upstairs and check.
- M.C. Escher

kesi...@math.ttu.edu

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Feb 19, 2002, 5:22:29 PM2/19/02

to

Matt Olson <ol...@csu401.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
: David P. Murphy (d...@myths.com) wrote:
[DPM's kitchen snipped]
: *blink*
: I think I've been playing too much nethack lately.

Or not enough, if you didn't notice the doors on the corners of the
walls.

==Jake-Sam, killed by an Air Elemental

Satya

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Feb 19, 2002, 5:14:28 PM2/19/02

to

On 19 Feb 2002 16:14:20 GMT, David P. Murphy <d...@myths.com> wrote:
>feel like you're getting ripped off. The larger L is 51 by 86,
>the rectangle is 39, and the smaller L (with integrated sink)
>is 40 by 86. You can do the math if you'd like, but the total
>cost was US$3200 including installation . . . a fantastic deal

*mumblemumblecalculator* 51+86+39+40+86? That's *mumble* 300+ inches, so
that $10 per 1 inch by 24? inches of ... what was it, granite? Still a bit
expensive I say, but okay.

>two bowl sink with the US$300 faucet. Cleans easy, looks nice.

Nuts. I'm moving back to India. At that price, it should wash the damn
dishes automatically. And carry them in, and to the cupboard.

--
Satya.

Berry Kercheval

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Feb 19, 2002, 6:11:35 PM2/19/02

to

Ingvar the Grey <ing...@cathouse.bofh.se> writes:
> Hrm, the "sinter, press, flash-heat" method works well for marble,
> Dunno how it works for granite, though.

It works very well indeed, it just takes about 5 million years after
you drop it into the nearest subduction zone.

Mike Andrews

unread,

Feb 19, 2002, 6:33:46 PM2/19/02

to

seanna watson <sea...@nortel.ca> wrote:

: Of course it's all a matter of taste, but we fell in love with the

: granite (actually gneiss) counter-top when we were looking into
: kitchen renovations, and based the rest of the decorating scheme
: on the "big rocks". Around here (.on.ca east), granite and corian
: are both $100-150CDN/linear foot - in our case, the granite came
: in about $10-20 cheaper than the Corian. We were impressed with
: the installation - the sink was mounted under the matching
: irregular-shaped rounded hole, the backsplash matched, the counter
: was perfectly level. The only thing they missed was rounding off
: one corner, and they came back and did that in situ.

Well, our island has all the gneiss (and feldspar and other
Canadian-Shield-type metamorphic rocks) I can ever use. All I
have to do is saw out some appropriately-sized slabs and get
them here. And reinforce the cabinets, floors, and foundation.

unread,

Feb 21, 2002, 6:17:30 AM2/21/02

to

Peter Dalgaard BSA <p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:

>d...@myths.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
>
>> Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:
>> > On 18 Feb 2002 22:29:57 +0100, Peter Dalgaard BSA
>> > <p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk> wrote:
>> >>USD), but that sounds a bit out of proportion. Just paid about $1500
>> >>for the granite slab under the cooker (roughly 6" x 2") plus $2500 for
>>
>> > What the *hell*? 12 square inches for one thousand five hundred[0] US
>> > dollars?? Even if you made a mistake and meant feet, 12 square feet for
>> > that much?
>
>Yes, of course I meant feet. The price was rounded down...
>
>> Welcome to my kitchen:
>...

Not bad...

+-------------=========-+
| +----------------+
| | F | |SINK| |
| | R |___________/
| IDGE ---+
| STOVE
| ---+
|+---+ ---+|
|FRIDGE / ||
|+---+ | ||
| ___________| ||
/

Yeah two fridges.

--
ADVISORY: The email address contained in the header of this posting is
a legitimate address; it is used to harvest email addresses so that we
can email you our own email message containing advertisments. To stop
yourself getting on this list use robadams(at)dingoblue{dit}net(dit)au

Jay Maynard

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:50:55 AM2/21/02

to

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:47:30 +0930, Rob Adams <roba...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>> Welcome to my kitchen:

>Not bad...
>
> +-------------=========-+
> | +----------------+
> | | F | |SINK| |
> | | R |___________/
> | IDGE ---+
> | STOVE
> | ---+
> |+---+ ---+|
> |FRIDGE / ||
> |+---+ | ||
> | ___________| ||
> /

While we're posting kitchens:

+-----+ +-------------+
|+---+ | |
|FRIDGE |________ |
|+---+ | |
|+---+ |---|
|STOVE |SI||
|+---+ |NK||
|---|
|DW||
|--+|
| |
+-------------------------+

(Picture at http://www.conmicro.cx/1831Oakwood/kitchen.jpg .)

Note the less than optimal use of space. We stuck a table in the middle, but
that's somewhat less than satisfying.

Arvid Grøtting

unread,

Feb 21, 2002, 9:04:58 AM2/21/02

to

jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes:

> While we're posting kitchens:

AOL.

+-------------------- -+
| | fri| |
| d/w | dge| (back
| ---------+----+ stairs)
| e s|
| m i| |
| a n| |
| c k| |
| s | |
| | |
|_____| table __|
| | / |
|stove| /cup|
|_____| | b'd|
+---------==========---------+
(window)

The trashcan's underneath the sink, with a door that won't open when
the dishwasher's open, but we can live with that. IKEA kitchen, by
the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.

Yes, we have a kitchen entrance, or fire exit.

--

Arvid
Caution: Tapes may be hot.

Arvid Grøtting

unread,

Feb 21, 2002, 9:07:27 AM2/21/02

to

jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes:

> While we're posting kitchens:

AOL.

+-------------------- -+
| | fri| |
| d/w | dge| (back
| ---------+----+ stairs)
| e s|
| m i| |
| a n| |
| c k| |
| s | |
| | |
|_____| table __|
| | / |
|stove| /cup|
|_____| | b'd|
+---------==========---------+
(window)

The trashcan's underneath the sink, with a door that won't open when
the dishwasher's open, but we can live with that. IKEA kitchen, by
the way. Which is fine by me -- it works.

Yes, we have a kitchen entrance, or fire exit. Oh, and the left-hand
(in the drawing) wall isn't at right angles with the rest, but that
detail got lost when compressing to ASCII.

Arvid Grøtting

unread,

Feb 21, 2002, 9:27:50 AM2/21/02

to

Lionel <n...@alt.net> writes:

> I'm sorry, but *someone* had to do it.

OK. I'm expecting a cascade of "what does Perth have in common with
Arvid Grøtting's stove" jokes any minute, though.

--
Live phase 1 <--> RJ45 pin 3 GND <--> RJ45 pin 8
Live phase 2 <--> RJ45 pin 6
Live phase 3 <--> RJ45 pin 2 Is this suitable?
Neutral <--> RJ45 pin 1 Or should we kill phones too?

J.D. Baldwin

unread,

Feb 21, 2002, 9:36:34 AM2/21/02

to

In the previous article, Arvid Grøtting <arv...@regina.uio.no> wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but *someone* had to do it.
>
> OK. I'm expecting a cascade of "what does Perth have in common with
> Arvid Grøtting's stove" jokes any minute, though.

If only it were the sink, there would be at least one "down under" gag
in there somewhere.

For a stove, I got nothin'.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with