RP02, RP03, RP04
Mike Ross
They're not in bad shape - need a good cleaning - and will probably get them
running in due course; I have RP15 and RP11 controllers to hook them up to. For
this I will however need disk packs! Now Farris will *build* you any disk pack
you desire - at $850 each, and my budget doesn't reach quite that far. So anyone
with packs for the above, please get in touch!
http://www.mfarris.com/pack/dec2.html gives some information on the packs in
question. The RP02 is a Memorex 660, IBM 2314 (drive) / 2316 (pack) -
compatible, the RP03 uses the same pack (????), the RP04 is IBM 3330 compatible.
Hmmm... dumb question: The RP06 also used IBM 3330-compatible media, IIRC; I
don't suppose I can use the same packs on the the RP04, can I? That would be too
easy...
Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'll also need to find or make cables to hook the drives
up to the controllers..!
Thanks
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
Bill Pechter
According to my memory and Columbia University's site:
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/rp06.html
The RP04 and RP05's used the same pack. The RP06 was twice the density
so I'd figure the servo tracks were different. Twice as many cylinders
IIRC.
RP06 - 815 Cyl. 20 heads 19 recording surfaces.
The RP06 is equivalent to the IBM 3330 Mod II.
RP04/RP05 - 411 Cyl 20 heads 19 recording surfaces..
The RP04 or RP05 is equivalent to the IBM 3330 Mod I.
RP05 is a half-density RP06 made by Memorex. The RP04 was an ISS/Sperry
drive. The RP05 was originally designated RP04-II before production and
marketing.
Bill
--
--
Digital had it then. Don't you wish you could buy it now!
pechter-at-pechter.dyndns.org
Johnny Billquist
> Thanks to a recent rescue from Canada, I now have the above DEC disk drives.
Hey! Nice. Congratulations!
> Hmmm... dumb question: The RP06 also used IBM 3330-compatible media, IIRC; I
> don't suppose I can use the same packs on the the RP04, can I? That would be too
> easy...
No. They are not the same. Different capacity. The RP04 and RP05 used
the same packs, however (unless my memory fails me).
> Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'll also need to find or make cables to hook the drives
> up to the controllers..!
Might also be a good time to point out that the RP04 is a massbus disk,
which is a very different interface to the RP02 and RP03.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Mike Ross
>Mike Ross wrote:
>> Thanks to a recent rescue from Canada, I now have the above DEC disk drives.
>
>Hey! Nice. Congratulations!
Thanks. Scored a nice IBM 3411 tape, two IBM 2741 Selectric terminals, and two
RM03s too. :-)
>> Hmmm... dumb question: The RP06 also used IBM 3330-compatible media, IIRC; I
>> don't suppose I can use the same packs on the the RP04, can I? That would be too
>> easy...
>
>No. They are not the same. Different capacity. The RP04 and RP05 used
>the same packs, however (unless my memory fails me).
Ahhh. Such is life. I know the RP04 is something like 3330-1, and the RP06 is
3330-2, or something like that. Wasn't sure if they could use the same physical
pack or not (reformatted, obviously!).
>> Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'll also need to find or make cables to hook the drives
>> up to the controllers..!
>
>Might also be a good time to point out that the RP04 is a massbus disk,
>which is a very different interface to the RP02 and RP03.
Ah. I'd forgotten that - or not looked at the drive closely enough! Well that
makes the RP04 easy. It's the RP02 and RP03 cables that will be a challenge.
glen herrmannsfeldt
(big snip)
< According to my memory and Columbia University's site:
< http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/rp06.html
< The RP04 and RP05's used the same pack. The RP06 was twice the density
< so I'd figure the servo tracks were different. Twice as many cylinders
< IIRC.
< RP06 - 815 Cyl. 20 heads 19 recording surfaces.
< The RP06 is equivalent to the IBM 3330 Mod II.
The 3330 comes in model 1, model 2, and model 11.
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3330.html
< RP04/RP05 - 411 Cyl 20 heads 19 recording surfaces..
< The RP04 or RP05 is equivalent to the IBM 3330 Mod I.
< RP05 is a half-density RP06 made by Memorex. The RP04 was an ISS/Sperry
< drive. The RP05 was originally designated RP04-II before production and
< marketing.
I am not sure, though, if the disk packs are different, or just
different formatting.
-- glen
Richard
Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> spake the secret code
<80m755hogjig7lib5...@4ax.com> thusly:
>Thanks. Scored a nice IBM 3411 tape, two IBM 2741 Selectric terminals, and two
>RM03s too. :-)
As a terminal freak, I would love to see some pics of the terminals!
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
Mike Ross
(Richard) wrote:
>[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
>Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> spake the secret code
><80m755hogjig7lib5...@4ax.com> thusly:
>
>>Thanks. Scored a nice IBM 3411 tape, two IBM 2741 Selectric terminals, and two
>>RM03s too. :-)
>
>As a terminal freak, I would love to see some pics of the terminals!
Will get some up tomorrow; will post URL here so look out for it.
jmfbahciv
> Mike Ross wrote:
>> Thanks to a recent rescue from Canada, I now have the above DEC disk
>> drives.
>
> Hey! Nice. Congratulations!
>
>> Hmmm... dumb question: The RP06 also used IBM 3330-compatible media,
>> IIRC; I
>> don't suppose I can use the same packs on the the RP04, can I? That
>> would be too
>> easy...
>
> No. They are not the same. Different capacity. The RP04 and RP05 used
> the same packs, however (unless my memory fails me).
>
recall the names at the moment. Wouldn't each manufacturer have
a different numbering system assigned to each model?
/BAH
Bill Pechter
Yup... Memorex RP06 and RP05's were Memorex 677 drives.
I think the 677-51's were a DEC special request.
Wikipedia has the model numbers for the Memorex drives.
RP05/RP06 100/200 MB Memorex 677-51/677-01 pack-loaded disk drive IBM 3330 type
Bill Pechter
IIRC The servo tracks were different and IIRC needed a servo track writing
device. You normally didn't do this in the field. It was done at mfg only.
User format used the timing from the servo to lay down the user sectors
and index info on the data cylinders. The servo head isn't supposed to
have write current in one of these drives.
These were not embedded servo drives. The pack had the servo info on only
one cylinder that was "read only."
Mike Ross
(Richard) wrote:
>[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
>Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> spake the secret code
><80m755hogjig7lib5...@4ax.com> thusly:
>
>>Thanks. Scored a nice IBM 3411 tape, two IBM 2741 Selectric terminals, and two
>>RM03s too. :-)
>
>As a terminal freak, I would love to see some pics of the terminals!
Here you go:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2024284&id=1528659644&l=7e32902a26
Almost works too. Anyone know how to fettle the Selectric equivalent of
'carriage return'? The typeball zooms straight to the right end of its travel
and stays there. 'Return' sends it a little way to the left, briefly, but it
drifts straight back to the right end.
Enjoy!
glen herrmannsfeldt
<>I am not sure, though, if the disk packs are different, or just
<>different formatting.
< IIRC The servo tracks were different and IIRC needed a servo
< track writing device. You normally didn't do this in the field.
< It was done at mfg only.
Yes, that is what I meant. But there could still be physical
differences, that would stop you from mounting a pack on the
wrong drive separate from the logical (servo track) differences.
In a shop with both types of drives, that could be very important.
< User format used the timing from the servo to lay down the user
< sectors and index info on the data cylinders. The servo head
< isn't supposed to have write current in one of these drives.
< These were not embedded servo drives. The pack had the servo
< info on only one cylinder that was "read only."
I think you mean surface instead of cylinder, but yes. IBM documents
RPS (Rotational Position Sense) such that the processor can sort
requests based on rotational position. (You can do a lot of
processing in 1/60 of a second.) The 20th surface, not used for
data, is described as being for RPS, but I believe it is also
for the servo.
The 3330 is a CKD (Count Key Data) drive, where sectors don't
have a fixed size as in DEC drives. A program can write a block
any size from 1 byte up to a full track (13030 bytes on a 3330).
-- glen
Bill Pechter
glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In alt.sys.pdp10 Bill Pechter
><pec...@bandit.pechter.dyndns.org.pechter.dyndns.org> wrote:
>(snip)
>
><>I am not sure, though, if the disk packs are different, or just
><>different formatting.
>
>< IIRC The servo tracks were different and IIRC needed a servo
>< track writing device. You normally didn't do this in the field.
>< It was done at mfg only.
>
>Yes, that is what I meant. But there could still be physical
>differences, that would stop you from mounting a pack on the
>wrong drive separate from the logical (servo track) differences.
>
>In a shop with both types of drives, that could be very important.
>
>< User format used the timing from the servo to lay down the user
>< sectors and index info on the data cylinders. The servo head
>< isn't supposed to have write current in one of these drives.
>
>< These were not embedded servo drives. The pack had the servo
>< info on only one cylinder that was "read only."
>
>I think you mean surface instead of cylinder, but yes. IBM documents
>RPS (Rotational Position Sense) such that the processor can sort
>requests based on rotational position. (You can do a lot of
>processing in 1/60 of a second.) The 20th surface, not used for
>data, is described as being for RPS, but I believe it is also
>for the servo.
Yup... brain fart on the cylinder...
The RP04/5/6 packs were the same physical dimensions and you could
screw 'em in the wrong drives. Most sites I had didn't have RP04's
and RP05's. By the time I was around they were usually RP06's... and
RM05's.
Some still had an RP04 or for compatibility with old packs.
Some sites had RP04's and RP06's mixed. Most dropped the RP04's and upgraded
because the RP04's cost $$$ more in maintenance. (for good reason -- ugh...)
>
>The 3330 is a CKD (Count Key Data) drive, where sectors don't
>have a fixed size as in DEC drives. A program can write a block
>any size from 1 byte up to a full track (13030 bytes on a 3330).
>
>-- glen
DEC only supported fixed sectors. The fun stuff was on the various drives
with emulation where they looked like the drive but with a different sector
size/number of sectors.
Patched drivers for Emulex controller based 9766's that looked like
or RM05/RM03's were common on the PDP11's. The other fun was emulation of
multiple RK07 drives on one RM drive.
Bill Gunshannon
legaliz...@mail.xmission.com (Richard) writes:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> spake the secret code
> <80m755hogjig7lib5...@4ax.com> thusly:
>
>>Thanks. Scored a nice IBM 3411 tape, two IBM 2741 Selectric terminals, and two
>>RM03s too. :-)
>
> As a terminal freak, I would love to see some pics of the terminals!
Picture hell.... I wish I had one!!!
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Mike Ross
>In article <h31580$a6j$1...@news.xmission.com>,
> legaliz...@mail.xmission.com (Richard) writes:
>> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>>
>> Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> spake the secret code
>> <80m755hogjig7lib5...@4ax.com> thusly:
>>
>>>Thanks. Scored a nice IBM 3411 tape, two IBM 2741 Selectric terminals, and two
>>>RM03s too. :-)
>>
>> As a terminal freak, I would love to see some pics of the terminals!
>
>Picture hell.... I wish I had one!!!
Well I did get two of them, so if you want to get into a bidding war with Will
Donzelli... :-)
Peter Flass
CMS only supported fixed sectors also, as I'm surprised Lynne hasn't
mentioned. They formatted CKD disks with all fixed-length blocks: 4K
for VM/XA, I believe smaller for earlier versions.
Mike Ross
the cavity in which the disk pack spins - is painted with a dark grey paint
which is positively sticky - tacky to the touch.
I've never encountered this on a disk drive before. Do people think this is just
old, deteriorated paint? Or is it possible that it's intended to be sticky - to
trap any particulates which elude the HEPA filter? If so, would that have been
factory applied, or a customer 'modification' done in the field?
Anyone ever found sticky paint on a removable-pack disk drive before?
leec
>
> Anyone ever found sticky paint on a removable-pack disk drive before?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
> 'As I walk along these shores
> I am the history within'
When HP released the HP7935 removable discs (404MB) in the early 1980s
they also used a sticky substance in the tub to trap particles.
Another solution to the contamination problem was to make the packs
non-removable. IIRC Disc Memory Division (DMD) just disabled the
unlock switch and viola the 7933 was born!
Lee Courtney
Charlie Gibbs
mi...@corestore.org (Mike Ross) writes:
> On cleaning up my RP02, I find that the 'basin' - the sheet metal
> which lines the cavity in which the disk pack spins - is painted
> with a dark grey paint which is positively sticky - tacky to the
> touch.
>
> I've never encountered this on a disk drive before. Do people think
> this is just old, deteriorated paint? Or is it possible that it's
> intended to be sticky - to trap any particulates which elude the
> HEPA filter? If so, would that have been factory applied, or a
> customer 'modification' done in the field?
>
> Anyone ever found sticky paint on a removable-pack disk drive before?
I've never heard of it; any drive I ever saw had normal-looking
(and -feeling) paint.
However, if visitors looked into the machine room while a CE was
reaching into a drive well to clean heads during a PM, I enjoyed
explaining - with a straight face, of course - that he was scraping
off any bits which had flown off the packs as a result of the drive
spinning them too fast, and adjusting the motor speed so that it
wouldn't happen again.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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