Help: restoring textured paint - DEC
Mike Ross
currently working on a DEC pdp-15, see:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2033045&id=1528659644&l=5d2b00be93
Virtually all of these old computers have a rough 'spattered' texture to the
paint - see the closeup photo at:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30575446&l=de7a64e432&id=1528659644
And a lot of panels with this finish need de-rusting and respraying.
I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
isw
Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> wrote:
Unless the original finish is mostly rusty or flaking off, your best
option may be to use a thin "Krylon-like" spray of a similar color and
just apply it on top of the existing finish.
Isaac
Chris Burrows
news:9v90c5lfgapokf558...@4ax.com...
>
> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat
> onto a
> plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was
> achieved?
> A particular type of paint?
Many years ago I used to buy ordinary aerosol spray cans of special paint to
give this sort of finish to aluminium cases for home-built electronics
devices. I think I used to get it from electronics / hobby shops. It's
really neat - it sprays on as normal but as it dries it forms that metallic
crinkly effect.
It's called something like 'crackle' (or maybe crinkle or wrinkle) finish.
--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.armaide.com
Dave Garland
> Virtually all of these old computers have a rough 'spattered' texture to the
> paint - see the closeup photo at:
Sort of like the (usually black) crackle finish that was found on
older high-quality electronic gear, a slightly rough finish. That
appeared to be a paint where the top layer shrunk as it dried (or
maybe was heat treated). But that had ridges, sort of like a
microcosm of the Himalayas.
I can remember finishes in the (probably) '60s that were like what you
show. Not so much rough as slightly bumpy. No clue how it was done,
though.
Dave
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> wrote:
> I've started work restoring some of the rattier computers in my
> collection - currently working on a DEC pdp-15, see:
>
> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2033045&id=1528659644&l=5d2b00be93
>
> Virtually all of these old computers have a rough 'spattered' texture to
> the paint - see the closeup photo at:
>
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30575446&l=de7a64e432&id=1528659644
Looks like Hammerite to me - these days they do a lot of smooth
finish paints too but the original "hammered" finish is still available in
their direct to rust range.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Techdas
> I've started work restoring some of the rattier computers in my collection -
> currently working on a DEC pdp-15, see:
>
> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2033045&id=1528659644&l=5d2b00be93
>
> Virtually all of these old computers have a rough 'spattered' texture to the
> paint - see the closeup photo at:
>
>
> And a lot of panels with this finish need de-rusting and respraying.
>
> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
> plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
> A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
> large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
> paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
>
> Mike
> 'As I walk along these shores
> I am the history within'
I didn't do it myself, but recall in the 70s, managers at a DEC plant
(UK) getting drafted in at weekends at the end of the month, to spray
-11 cabinets to help get systems ready for shipping. Don't think
there was any special skill to it or jet settings, and it probably was
a single coat, maybe a top finishing coat over primer. Don't think
it was Hammerite, which I'd used for car projects at that time.
Looking at "crackle-finish" paints, the trick seems to be to have an
adhesive in the paint which shrinks as it dries. In the UK, Plasti-
Kote for "project paint" at http://www.plasti-kote.co.uk/Product/pcode---4085/pccode---3620
might be a source of ideas.
Mike Ross
Thanks for those who have given ideas so far. For those who have mentioned
'crackle' finish, I know what you mean and it's definitely not that. Hammerite
is much closer to the mark, but the problem there of course it that the
Hammerite paint won't be available in the correct colours, so I'd have to spray
it as a primer and follow with a colour-matched non-Hammerite top coat - which
may partially destroy the texture.
Original paint isn't an option; there's enough surface rust and dings where
large-ish areas of paint have flaked that complete refinishing is required to
restore to the requiste standard.
jmfbahciv
I cannot remember who talked about it, nor which newsgroup. IIRC,
the post was in the 1996-1998 timeframe.
As a guess John Everett may remember since ADP painted their own
-10s with their colors.
/BAH
MdntTrain
> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
> plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
> A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
> large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
> paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
>
> Mike
Can't tell from photo how much of a close-up shot it is, but it's
definitely not crinkle or hammertone finish.. it's some splatter/
speckle variation... usually done by diluting and spraying the paint a
certain way so that it doesn't spray evenly. Sometimes you spray an
even primer + base coat, then follow up with the splatter top finish,
and sometimes even seal the whole deal in a clear.
Although I've not had much experience here, I've come close using an
HVLP gun and some latex when coating a monitor enclosure.
jS
jS
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org> wrote:
> Thanks for those who have given ideas so far. For those who have mentioned
> 'crackle' finish, I know what you mean and it's definitely not that.
> Hammerite is much closer to the mark, but the problem there of course it
> that the Hammerite paint won't be available in the correct colours, so
> I'd have to spray it as a primer and follow with a colour-matched
> non-Hammerite top coat - which may partially destroy the texture.
Blend Hammerite colours perhaps.
Al Kossow
The thread was "dec cabinet paint (and/was "11/34 done")" on classiccmp in
2006
> I was going to take a RL02 front panel or dec corp cab filler panel in
> to a hardware store and have them match the paint color exactly, and
> get a small can of the correct mix. Or does an industry standard color
> coding system exist, and these magic numbers are known by a listmember
> so I can just get the color already? I would really like to get an
> exact match for the "white" on the front of the /34 & RL02, the "grey"
> on the H960 side panel, and the "black" on the H960 anti-tip feet. Not
> just the right color but the right type of paint and finish.
I got this from somebody who got it from DEC circa 1999 or so; these may
or may not be available anymore from the listed paint vendor, I don't know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Paint
Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved.
U.S. Area Information Center
QRL, Quick Reference List
Supplies: PAINT, for PDP and VAXES
Updated: 16-APR-1998 Article Expiration Date: 27-MAY-2000
Part Description: DEC Part
Number:
________________________________________________________________________
Note:
Paints are ordered from Randolf Products
Harlestat, NJ
201-438-3700
Specify Product type, Randolf Products will provide color match.
End Note:
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Gray 49-01524-01
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Old Digital Blue/gray 49-01524-02
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Black 49-01524-03
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,End Panel Grey 49-01524-04
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Bright Copen Blue 49-01524-05
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Terra Cotta 49-01524-06
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Scale Grey 49-01524-07
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Blasi Blue 49-01524-08
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Topaz 49-01524-09
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Mullen Blue 49-01524-10
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Perferred Red 49-01524-11
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Digital Brown 49-01524-12
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Charcoal 49-01524-13
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Mid-Range Gray 49-01524-14
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Mid,Dark Gray 49-01524-15
Ray Abbitt
cabinets. I've had good results with UNTHINNED latex and a coarse foam
roller. Duratex works great (for speaker cabs) but is probably overkill
for something that is not being thrown into a trailer every time it's
used. Apply a smooth basecoat, allow it to dry, then cover with a
thicker layer using the foam roller. Load the roller heavily and roll
once (best not to go back over an area more than once because at least
in the case of Duratex it dries rapidly and lifts into sharp ridges if
you roll back over it--other latex paint may react differently).
Practice on a piece of scrap until you can get the texture you want.
You can also apply the texture coat using one of the cheap hopper type
guns made for spraying texture on drywall ceilings. (It actally does a
better job than an HVLP gun for this application.) But I've gotten as
good or better results (as well as not making near as much of a mess)
with the foam roller method.
-ray
Patrick Scheible
> I got this from somebody who got it from DEC circa 1999 or so; these may
> or may not be available anymore from the listed paint vendor, I don't know.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> System Paint
> Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved.
> U.S. Area Information Center
> QRL, Quick Reference List
> Supplies: PAINT, for PDP and VAXES
> Updated: 16-APR-1998 Article Expiration Date: 27-MAY-2000
> Part Description: DEC Part
> Number:
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Note:
> Paints are ordered from Randolf Products
> Harlestat, NJ
> 201-438-3700
> Specify Product type, Randolf Products will provide color match.
> End Note:
> [snip]
> Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Terra Cotta 49-01524-06
Is this terra cotta DECSYSTEM-20 red?
-- Patrick
ChrisQ
> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
> plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
> A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
> large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
> paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
>
Powder coat finish ?, A tough epoxy like coating used by (for example)
motorcycle restorers in the uk,. Uses a high temp oven to complete the
process. I think there are variants that produce the slightly uneven
surface texture as found on dec racks.
Would be expensive for a 6 foot rack though and there may be near
equivalents such as 2 pack epoxy paint. Some of those have been banned,
I think, in europe...
Regards,
Chris
jmfbahciv
/BAH
Mike Ross
>Mike Ross wrote:
>
>> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
>> plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
>> A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
>> large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
>> paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
>>
>
>Powder coat finish ?, A tough epoxy like coating used by (for example)
>motorcycle restorers in the uk,. Uses a high temp oven to complete the
>process. I think there are variants that produce the slightly uneven
>surface texture as found on dec racks.
I know the process you mean, the high temp makes the powder flow and set on
cooling, yes the finish can be slightly uneven but not 'splatter' textured the
way these panels (and all my old IBM panels, I should add) are. This was very
obviously produced by some spray painting technique.
John Wallace
In DEC in Reading there used to be a group that did hardware loans.
I'm reasonably sure they used to have aerosol cans which were used to
facelift stuff after it had suffered cosmetic damage, including the
racks being referred to here.
I can't remember what the cans were, but I'm reasonably sure they were
simple one-can spray-on stuff, no heat-treatment or anything like that
needed. However this was at least ten years ago so I might be
misremembering.
jmfbahciv
I also remember people talking about spray cans, too. However, I've
never seen our skins being manufactured nor refurbished.
/BAH
Techdas
>
> - Show quoted text -
I did see the skins being manufactured and refurbished in the 1970s,
as noted above it was a spray process which could be done by unskilled
staff including senior managers. I've also seen refurbishment of
small areas with aerosol cans, so no heat-treatment involved.
Thinking about it, I never saw unpainted skins (raw metal) so they
were perhaps supplied in dark primer then a final coat sprayed on,
differential drying may have provided the textured effect. Paint
repair by re-spray or aerosol was sometimes a critical last-minute
fix, those large cabinets were vulnerable to inadvertent scratching
before packaging, and the cabinets were high value so a good finish
was seen as very important.
Al Kossow
> I did see the skins being manufactured and refurbished in the 1970s,
> as noted above it was a spray process which could be done by unskilled
> staff including senior managers. I've also seen refurbishment of
> small areas with aerosol cans, so no heat-treatment involved.
> Thinking about it, I never saw unpainted skins (raw metal) so they
> were perhaps supplied in dark primer then a final coat sprayed on,
> differential drying may have provided the textured effect. Paint
> repair by re-spray or aerosol was sometimes a critical last-minute
> fix, those large cabinets were vulnerable to inadvertent scratching
> before packaging, and the cabinets were high value so a good finish
> was seen as very important.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
Should I keep repeating this post until someone actually READS IT?
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
The thread was "dec cabinet paint (and/was "11/34 done")" on classiccmp in
2006
http://www.randolphproducts.com/products/
> I was going to take a RL02 front panel or dec corp cab filler panel in
> to a hardware store and have them match the paint color exactly, and
> get a small can of the correct mix. Or does an industry standard color
> coding system exist, and these magic numbers are known by a listmember
> so I can just get the color already? I would really like to get an
> exact match for the "white" on the front of the /34 & RL02, the "grey"
> on the H960 side panel, and the "black" on the H960 anti-tip feet. Not
> just the right color but the right type of paint and finish.
I got this from somebody who got it from DEC circa 1999 or so; these may
or may not be available anymore from the listed paint vendor, I don't know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Paint
Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved.
U.S. Area Information Center
QRL, Quick Reference List
Supplies: PAINT, for PDP and VAXES
Updated: 16-APR-1998 Article Expiration Date: 27-MAY-2000
Part Description: DEC Part
Number:
________________________________________________________________________
Note:
Paints are ordered from Randolph Products
Harlestat, NJ
201-438-3700
Specify Product type, Randolph Products will provide color match.
End Note:
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Gray 49-01524-01
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Old Digital Blue/gray 49-01524-02
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Black 49-01524-03
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,End Panel Grey 49-01524-04
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Bright Copen Blue 49-01524-05
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Terra Cotta 49-01524-06
Mike Ross
wrote:
>On Oct 1, 1:52�pm, jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> wrote:
>> John Wallace wrote:
>> > In DEC in Reading there used to be a group that did hardware loans.
>> > I'm reasonably sure they used to have aerosol cans which were used to
>> > facelift stuff after it had suffered cosmetic damage, including the
>> > racks being referred to here.
>>
>> > I can't remember what the cans were, but I'm reasonably sure they were
>> > simple one-can spray-on stuff, no heat-treatment or anything like that
>> > needed. However this was at least ten years ago so I might be
>> > misremembering.
>>
>> I also remember people talking about spray cans, too. �However, I've
>> never seen our skins being manufactured nor refurbished.
>I did see the skins being manufactured and refurbished in the 1970s,
>as noted above it was a spray process which could be done by unskilled
>staff including senior managers.
Keyboard! :-)
>I've also seen refurbishment of
>small areas with aerosol cans, so no heat-treatment involved.
>Thinking about it, I never saw unpainted skins (raw metal) so they
>were perhaps supplied in dark primer then a final coat sprayed on,
>differential drying may have provided the textured effect. Paint
>repair by re-spray or aerosol was sometimes a critical last-minute
>fix, those large cabinets were vulnerable to inadvertent scratching
>before packaging, and the cabinets were high value so a good finish
>was seen as very important.
Et voila: the paint, and the results. A pdp-15 console I've just refurbished and
resprayed using a genuine DEC touch-up aerosol I was given a couple of years
ago:
http://www.corestore.org/15conspaint.jpg
(warning: high-res image!)
The areas needing touch up were quite small. It's actually difficult to tell if
this reproduced the texture or not; my impression is that it did.
Peter Flass
Well, you know that if managers could do it, *anyone* could do it.
jmfbahciv
the auld DEC managers could do and had done most of the work we did.
/BAH
William Pechter
Them's were the good old days... when managers used to do the work you
do and were good enough to be promoted to management on the basis of
ability...
Now it's MBA's, vendor certifications etc.
(Lucky my boss used to be a real sysadmin in the old days.)
Bill
--
--
"When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school
It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome)
pechter-at-ureach.com
John Everett
wrote:
>And a lot of panels with this finish need de-rusting and respraying.
>
>I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
>plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
>A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
>large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
>paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
I'm 100% sure DEC's panels were sprayed at the factory, early on in
the basement of Building 4 in The Mill. I sure wish I could help more
in that the instrument panel in my first race car was sprayed on the
paint line. After a dip in the big vapor degreaser we hung the panel
on the moving conveyor between a couple of skins and it trundled on
down the line. When we retrieved it the "splatter" finish matched that
on the DEC skins. ;-)
On another article in this thread someone mentioned ADP's systems. I'm
assuming they were refering to the KS-10 based ADP/Onsites. We sent
the orange skins as received from DEC to a local Ann Arbor body shop
(Zahn's Autobody on Wagner Road, IIRC) where they were sprayed 1976
Corvette brown. I think that was the year, but I'm certain it was
Corvette brown.
--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)
Charlie Gibbs
pec...@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) writes:
> Them's were the good old days... when managers used to do the work you
> do and were good enough to be promoted to management on the basis of
> ability...
That's the origin of the Peter Principle.
> Now it's MBA's, vendor certifications etc.
And that's the result.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Charles Richmond
> In article <ha4u79$tsu$1...@pechter.motzarella.org>,
> pec...@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) writes:
>
>> Them's were the good old days... when managers used to do the work you
>> do and were good enough to be promoted to management on the basis of
>> ability...
>
> That's the origin of the Peter Principle.
>
>> Now it's MBA's, vendor certifications etc.
>
> And that's the result.
>
"Remember when you were younger, you wondered how your life would
turn out??? Well, now you know." ;-)
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
jmfbahciv
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:07:01 -0400, Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org>
> wrote:
>
>> And a lot of panels with this finish need de-rusting and respraying.
>>
>> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single coat onto a
>> plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how the texture was achieved?
>> A particular type of paint? A particular setting of the spray gun to produce
>> large droplets which 'spatter'? Hopefully someone has encountered this type of
>> paint and figured how to reproduce the finish! Thanks!
>
> I'm 100% sure DEC's panels were sprayed at the factory, early on in
> the basement of Building 4 in The Mill. I sure wish I could help more
> in that the instrument panel in my first race car was sprayed on the
> paint line. After a dip in the big vapor degreaser we hung the panel
> on the moving conveyor between a couple of skins and it trundled on
> down the line. When we retrieved it the "splatter" finish matched that
> on the DEC skins. ;-)
I'd forgotten about this story. :-) Maybe the splatter finish is
fly specks or itty bitty spider carcases. :-)
>
> On another article in this thread someone mentioned ADP's systems. I'm
> assuming they were refering to the KS-10 based ADP/Onsites. We sent
> the orange skins as received from DEC to a local Ann Arbor body shop
> (Zahn's Autobody on Wagner Road, IIRC) where they were sprayed 1976
> Corvette brown. I think that was the year, but I'm certain it was
> Corvette brown.
>
>
/BAH
Charlie Gibbs
writes:
> John Everett wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:07:01 -0400, Mike Ross <mi...@corestore.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And a lot of panels with this finish need de-rusting and respraying.
>>>
>>> I'm 99% certain this was done at the factory, sprayed as a single
>>> coat onto a plain flat steel panel. Question: does anyone know how
>>> the texture was achieved? A particular type of paint? A particular
>>> setting of the spray gun to produce large droplets which 'spatter'?
>>> Hopefully someone has encountered this type of paint and figured
>>> how to reproduce the finish!
>>> Thanks!
>>
>> I'm 100% sure DEC's panels were sprayed at the factory, early on in
>> the basement of Building 4 in The Mill. I sure wish I could help
>> more in that the instrument panel in my first race car was sprayed
>> on the paint line. After a dip in the big vapor degreaser we hung
>> the panel on the moving conveyor between a couple of skins and it
>> trundled on down the line. When we retrieved it the "splatter"
>> finish matched that on the DEC skins. ;-)
>
> I'd forgotten about this story. :-) Maybe the splatter finish is
> fly specks or itty bitty spider carcases. :-)
So perhaps the whole "splatter finish" fad was simply due to the
fact that paint booths weren't exactly a "clean room" environment. :-)