SIMH: Please help! Idiots guide to running PDP-10 Games!

[Daniel Waddington]

Hi guys

This is basically a last resort, but Im looking to run games like Empire, Zork (Adventure) and any other PDP-10 games out there. I cant find a list of PDP games, and installing the software and trying to understand it has been a nightmare.

I managed to get SIMH running a DPP-8 sim, and I managed to play:

- Adventure (Colossal Cave PDP-8 port, based onm the PDP-10 version)
- Golf
- Hunt The Wumpus
- Trek
- Rocket

All well and good. But when I came to set up SIMH for the PDP-10, I couldnt get further than the basics. I have Top-10 running from a boot image I found on the internet, with dskb.dsk and dskc.dsk. I can boot in to Tops, and it comes up - Type 'r dsk:adv' to load Adventure - so I did that and it runs. I also typed 'r Haunt' and another game came up.

How do I .DIR the disks, and change to a new disk, as when I do are DIR it just seems to list disk2 and not the disk with all the files on it.

I have Empire for PDP-10 from the website, but it looks like the files need to be compiled under Fortran or something.

I tried to get Zork 1 running this method:

http://ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archiveXprogrammingXmdlXinterpretersXconfusion.html

But I cant get the emulator to do anything.
I type <FLOAD "run.mud"> and it does nothing.

I have found a few tapes:

FUN_GAMES__2-8-83.tap
games_exchange.tap
BB-D480C-SB_1981

Could someone kindly send a link to a disk file, with compiled versions of games, so I can run them. Its for a new documentary Im making on old video games, and I really want to find out what is out there for this machine.

dan

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington <lifescho...@gmail.com> writes:
> This is basically a last resort, but Im looking to run games like
> Empire, Zork (Adventure) and any other PDP-10 games out there.

Here are some running on ITS:

https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/doc/games.md

There are instructions for building an ITS image in the repository.

> Its for a new documentary Im making on old video games, and I really
> want to find out what is out there for this machine.

Don't miss out on some classics:

- Spacewar
- Greenblatt's chess program, Mac Hack VI
- MUD
- Maze

[Daniel Waddington]

Hi there!

Thanks - this look exactly what Im looking for! :)

Unfortunately, my brain went in to melt down trying to understand your link.

I dont know how to compile stuff with Makefile. :(

Would you be so lovely as to link me to the built ITS disk image, with clues as to what I type to get it running.

Yes I want to play all of those games you suggest! :)

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

I tried again to understand the link you sent to me. I tried installing CMAKE but I dont know what that did, if anything. I type MAKE at command prompt and it fails. Could someone please make the file for Win 32 SimH please. :)

I really feel gutted I cant install this, and its the closest I can get to playing these games. :(

[Paul Rubin]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
> I really feel gutted I cant install this, and its the closest I can
> get to playing these games. :(

Most of those games you mentioned run on more modern systems?

[Robert Munyer]

Daniel Waddington wrote:

> Could someone kindly send a link to a disk file, with compiled
> versions of games, so I can run them. Its for a new documentary
> Im making on old video games, and I really want to find out what
> is out there for this machine.

You can get a free (or nearly free) account on one of the real (or
emulated) PDP-10 (or TOAD) systems that are already running on the
Internet. Possibilities include livingcomputers.org (several real
systems) or sdf.org (one emulated system). If you're near Seattle
you can go to the LCM and use real PDP-10s in person!

I don't think the LCM has a user forum, but SDF's "bulletin board"
is very active, and has several users who like PDP-10 games.

--
e-mail: the TLD is COM, the subdomain is my surname,
and the local-part is the product of 134767 and 66891.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington wrote:
> I tried again to understand the link you sent to me. I tried
> installing CMAKE but I dont know what that did, if anything. I type
> MAKE at command prompt and it fails. Could someone please make the
> file for Win 32 SimH please. :)

Sorry, the build system targets Unix-like operating systems, and has not
been tested on Windows.

I can make you an image for SIMH; give me a few days. However, SIMH
emulates a KS10 processor without any graphical displays, so you won't
be able to see e.g. Spacewar or the chess board.

[Paul Rubin]

Lars Brinkhoff <lars...@nocrew.org> writes:
> I can make you an image for SIMH; give me a few days. However, SIMH
> emulates a KS10 processor without any graphical displays, so you won't
> be able to see e.g. Spacewar or the chess board.

The chess program I remember didn't use any graphics. It showed the
chessboard in ascii, something like:

BR BN BB BQ BK BB BN BR
BP BP BP BP BP BP BP BP
** -- ** -- ** -- ** --
-- ** -- ** -- ** -- **
** -- ** -- ** -- ** --
-- ** -- ** -- ** -- **
WP WP WP WP WP WP WP WP
WR WN WB WQ WK WB WN WR

I think there's not much point in launching SIMH to play chess since
there are so many alternatives now. Spacewar might be a different
story.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Paul Rubin wrote:
> The chess program I remember didn't use any graphics. It showed the
> chessboard in ascii, something like:
>
> BR BN BB BQ BK BB BN BR
> BP BP BP BP BP BP BP BP
> ** -- ** -- ** -- ** --
> -- ** -- ** -- ** -- **
> ** -- ** -- ** -- ** --
> -- ** -- ** -- ** -- **
> WP WP WP WP WP WP WP WP
> WR WN WB WQ WK WB WN WR

Yes, that's what it displays on a text terminal. But it can also show a
board on a 340 display, or a Knight TV.

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

Ok, its time to put my cards on the table.

My name is Dan and I work for Gracious Films, a UK based studio specialising on archiving and documenting video games.

I've been tasked with the job of screen ripping as many old games as possible, as authentically as possible, and so far the only ones which I desperately need are the ones on the PDP-10.

I'm looking for the games listed here:
https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/doc/games.md

These includes the Original Maze War, Original Colossal Cave (Advent), Wanderer, Empire, Dungeon and Hunt the Wumpus. Plus any others you know of.

I managed to get MUD1 from the Telnet source online, and the screen font they used looks original enough to look right.

I logged in to the SDF.org as you suggested. I registered for ASCII-games and this sent me an email and also said I need to use Putty to access the site on a PC. I have Putty, so I put the address in (using Telnet mode?) and it refused to accept my password and log in. What am I doing wrong?

https://imgur.com/IF4IGWZ

I really dont mind if Im using an online terminal, or putty, as long as the games look genuine and not modern day remakes, or later versions.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel wrote:
> I'm looking for the games listed here:
> https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/doc/games.md

I think I can help, but it's hard to do over text messages like this.

> I really dont mind if Im using an online terminal, or putty, as long
> as the games look genuine and not modern day remakes, or later
> versions.

It's really not that hard to find a few nice CRT terminals which would
make the text games look much better.

As for video games like Spacewar and Maze War, the original equipent is
very hard to find but not impossible. But it would involve going to
places like Mountain View and/or Seattle.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

E.g. this is a software simulation of PDP-1 Spacewar:

https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/

It's not the PDP-10 (or PDP-6) version, but it's close.

We have a similar looking simulation of PDP-6/10 Spacwar, but it's not
available online.

[Paul Rubin]

Lars Brinkhoff <lars...@nocrew.org> writes:
> We have a similar looking simulation of PDP-6/10 Spacwar, but it's not
> available online.

Was that anywhere near as good as the LDS-1 Spacewar?

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Paul Rubin wrote:
>> We have a similar looking simulation of PDP-6/10 Spacwar, but it's
>> not available online.
> Was that anywhere near as good as the LDS-1 Spacewar?

I have no idea what LSD-1 Spacewar was like. If you do, I'd very much
like to hear about it. (Which places even had an LDS-1? E&S of course,
MIT, and Princeton.)

I have MIT's ~1966 PDP-6 Spacewar and 1975 PDP-6/10 Spacewar running in
simulation. (Full credits must go to Phil Budne and Angelo Papenhoff
for making the 340 display simulations.)

I got a copy of SAIL's Spacewar, but it's for their operating system,
and the III dsplays. There are a few B/W scans of blurry photos online,
so I can hardly say I know what it looked like.

[Paul Rubin]

Lars Brinkhoff <lars...@nocrew.org> writes:
> I have no idea what LSD-1 Spacewar was like. If you do, I'd very much
> like to hear about it. (Which places even had an LDS-1? E&S of course,
> MIT, and Princeton.)

LDS-1 Spacewar was amazing to watch, though it looked like it took quite
a lot of practice to play. There was a box with a row of toggle
switches (maybe 16 or 18 of them?) and you used them to control the
ships. The ships could move around freely on the screen, iirc there was
a star (sun) in the middle of the screen whose gravitational force was a
game parameter, and other cool things like that. I don't know of any
modern video game anything like it.

The one I saw was at Princeton. Case Western Reserve may have also had
one. They (later?) had an LDS-2, which despite the LDS (line drawing
system) name, was a raster display.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Paul Rubin wrote:
> LDS-1 Spacewar was amazing to watch, though it looked like it took quite
> a lot of practice to play. There was a box with a row of toggle
> switches (maybe 16 or 18 of them?) and you used them to control the
> ships. The ships could move around freely on the screen, iirc there was
> a star (sun) in the middle of the screen whose gravitational force was a
> game parameter, and other cool things like that. I don't know of any
> modern video game anything like it.

That sounds like a pretty generic description of Spacewar. How was the
LDS-1 version different from the PDP-1 version?

Someone called "Miami Jack" has many nice photos from Princeton.
I haven't been able to contact him.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/9330414@N05/albums/72157631998999666

I haven't had any luck finding any LDS-1 software, except small examples
in the manuals. Sutherland himself doesn't know any. Do you have any
ideas where to search?

> Case Western Reserve may have also had one.

Thanks, will look into it.

[Paul Rubin]

Lars Brinkhoff <lars...@nocrew.org> writes:
> That sounds like a pretty generic description of Spacewar. How was the
> LDS-1 version different from the PDP-1 version?

I never saw the PDP-1 version but I doubt that the PDP-1 had the
computational power to do what the LDS-1 version was doing. The other
Spacewar that I saw was on a PDP-8 and it was nowhere near as cool.

> I haven't had any luck finding any LDS-1 software, except small
> examples in the manuals. Sutherland himself doesn't know any. Do you
> have any ideas where to search?

I still have occasional contact with someone who used the Princeton
LDS-1 so I could ask him sometime. I never used or programmed it myself
but I got to visit the lab where it was installed, and watched other
people using it and playing Spacewar.

I remember looking over the code of the Life game, which I think was
written by Don Woods of Crowther and Woods ADVENT fame. I don't
remember much about the graphics parts since I was mostly trying to
understand the Life algorithm, which used a sparse representation of the
Life pattern, a bunch of multiply linked lists implemented in Fortran
arrays. It was impressive to watch in action.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Paul Rubin wrote:
> I never saw the PDP-1 version but I doubt that the PDP-1 had the
> computational power to do what the LDS-1 version was doing. The other
> Spacewar that I saw was on a PDP-8 and it was nowhere near as cool.

You can see the PDP-1 version online here. It's supposedly close to the
original appearance.

https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/

I'd guess it's on par with the PDP-8 version.

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

Thanks guys for helping me out. This could be a very interesting topic.

Putting aside how to get these games running for a second, let me share what I know so far by giving a few lines from my brief:

"[We need] as many of the first primitive mainframe (and later PDP) games that came both before and after SpaceWar!. For example many speak of Tic Tac Toe, Star Trek, Hunt the Wumpus, plus Dave Leblings largely forgotten work on the very first Mazewars, there were several versions of that and we have none of it, the original NASA Ames version, then Dave and friends iterations which at some point started to feature 3D graphics (PDS-1 Graphic terminals), then eventually the Caltech version (which many think is the only version) which was the one officially released 10 years later for Amiga and ST (the one with the blinking eye-ball). Then of course captures of Colossal Cave Adventure (as many versions as possible) (we've filmed Don and Will) eventually captures of some of the earliest work from the likes of Infocom, Scott Adams, Richard Garriott, Wizardry etc."

So.. The Infocom stuff would include Zork, and then basically the stuff which is in the its-master.zip pack.

I have recorded as much footage as possible from https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/ and I contacted the author (Norbert), and he is busy working on a Tennis For Two simulator for us.

LDS-1, there doesnt seem be be much online, but the Wiki mentions they had one up at NASA, so does this mean the Ames version of Spacewar! and Mazewar could be an earlier source? I had a quick look online, and I didnt spot any LDS-1 sims or such. This may be a case of having to find someone willing to hike up there and film some stuff live, but this is perhaps a bit extreme and maybe a last resort, depending on how vital the early versions really are.

I'd have to get back to you on that. In the meantime, I have a couple of weeks to get this sorted. I only have the PDP-10 games left to find and record, so any help file instructions, files, images, clips etc would be welcome.

I would be interested to find out what survives out there... the Version 1s.

[Paul Rubin]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
> I would be interested to find out what survives out there... the Version 1s.

Have you contacted the Computer History Museum and the Seattle
counterpart? I think someone may have mentioned those.

There were very few LDS-1's and Lars has been looking for LDS-1 software
with no success so far, though he is now following up a few more leads.
I'm not aware of anyone ever writing an emulator for it.

As someone mentioned you'll probably have an easier time with the other
emulators if you run Linux instead of Windows. Maybe you could set up a
computer for that purpose for the duration of your project.

You should read "Hackers" by Stephen Levy if you haven't already. I'm
not that excited by seeing old text games in a movie, but if there's any
old footage of the Tech Model Railroad Club layout from back then, I'd
be into seeing that.

Zork, Advent, Empire etc. all were eventually ported to other systems
(or started on them) without much change from the user perspective
afaik. Wumpus originated in microcomputer BASIC and I'm amused to hear
that someone ported it to ITS.

Does anyone here know where to find the source code to GT40 Lunar
Lander?

You should try to find some PLATO games. I never saw PLATO but
it had some good games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)

The Internet Archive (archive.org) has a lot of old PC and early
Macintosh games that you can now run in your browser. I don't know if
that interests you.

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

Thanks. :)

I signed up to Cyber1 as my first port of call, and so far Im 90% done with this project. Its not for a feature film, but you know, the British have this thing about documentaries. No idea where it will all end up, but it was an interesting project.

I finally managed to get in to faeroes.sdf.org on Putty (I was typing the wrong password) and grabbed a few games. Im using the VT100 font, and green screen, and yes its not perfect but its impossible to replicate a glow screen without going to the lengths of recording the real thing. Unfortunately, on that site, Zork is exactly the same as Advent(ure), Wanderer didnt load, and neither did most of the other games. Had a good time with Rogue though.

Still looking to get Empire and the early 'Big Names', but I think the final show will be more about graphics development, so no idea how much is needed.

[Paul Rubin]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
> Had a good time with Rogue though.

Rogue was originally written on PDP-11 and later VAX Unix. I had no
idea that there was ever a PDP-10 port. But yes it was cool. If you
show it, you should also show Rog-O-Matic, an automated Rogue player
written at CMU.

> Still looking to get Empire and the early 'Big Names', but I think the
> final show will be more about graphics development, so no idea how
> much is needed.

There were a lot of arcade games in that era that were very impressive
for the technology of the day. You might look at those too. This is
from 1984 but was genius: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble_Madness

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Rogue was originally written on PDP-11 and later VAX Unix. I had no
> idea that there was ever a PDP-10 port.

I heard about it some time ago, contacted the authors, and much to
my amazement they still had it.

https://github.com/PDP-10/Rogue

> Wumpus originated in microcomputer BASIC and I'm amused to hear that
> someone ported it to ITS.

Wikipedia says it was written in 1973 but not for which computer. ITS
timestamps go back to 1975.

> Does anyone here know where to find the source code to GT40 Lunar
> Lander?

Eric Smith has a copy.

http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/gt40/

It's also built into SIMH, so you can just type "boot vt11" or something
like that.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Dan wrote:
> Dave Leblings largely forgotten work on the very first Mazewars, there
> were several versions of that and we have none of it, the original
> NASA Ames version

Greg Thompson has been very helpful in explaining about the NASA Ames
and how he brought it to MIT.

> Dave and friends iterations which at some point started to feature 3D
> graphics (PDS-1 Graphic terminals)

I understand it was first written for the Imlac PDS-1 at NASA.
MIT had the same kind of machines. The new feature added at MIT
was to network the PDS-1s and use a PDP-10 as the server.

It was later ported to the Alto. This version is running at the Living
Computer Museum.

> I would be interested to find out what survives out there... the Version 1s.

Don't forget about MUD version 1, in particular since it's a British
invention. Someone from the UK has it compiled from source code and
running on TOPS-10 in emulation.

[Paul Rubin]

Lars Brinkhoff <lars...@nocrew.org> writes:
> Eric Smith has a copy.
> http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/gt40/
> It's also built into SIMH, so you can just type "boot vt11" or something
> like that.

Thanks! I remember looking at that code in amazement in high school. I
don't think I've ever had it in me to write that much assembly code.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

If PDP-11 games are on the table, I'd like to point out Dazzle Dart.

It's largely forgotten, but it's interesting because it was made by the
Logo people at MIT. Does the name Hal Abelson ring a bell? We were
lucky to find a copy from ITS. (Sometimes it seems ITS was involved in
everything around those times.)

Here's a description from someone who played it back then:

https://www.kaleberg.com/dazzle/dazzle.html

(This is also interesting, because that person used to work for the
Architecture Machine group. But I digress.)

I made the necessary updates to the SIMH emulator, so it can now run the
game. The problem is finding four people to play it. No more, no less.
(Currently it's operated from the keyboard which is quite useless. I
have yet to submit my patches for using joysticks.)

[Scott Lurndal]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
>Thanks. :)
>

>
>Still looking to get Empire and the early 'Big Names', but I think the fina=
>l show will be more about graphics development, so no idea how much is need=
>ed.

Have you recorded sessions of empire and dnd on Plato yet? There's
a plato system (emulated) on the web that you can use.

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PLATO_Computer_System

[Scott Lurndal]

Paul Rubin <no.e...@nospam.invalid> writes:
>lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
>> Had a good time with Rogue though.
>
>Rogue was originally written on PDP-11 and later VAX Unix. I had no
>idea that there was ever a PDP-10 port. But yes it was cool. If you
>show it, you should also show Rog-O-Matic, an automated Rogue player
>written at CMU.

Rogue was similar to (and likely influenced by) the earlier dnd on Plato.

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

Thanks as always for your help and notes on this stuff.

I already got MUD1 from the Telnet system which is online, so that one is in the bag. Yes, I got all the PLATO games from Cyber 1, so Im ok for those. Also recorded all the ALTO games, PDP-8 and SOL-20.

Recorded GT40 Lunar Lander today - a great game!
Are there any more GT40 .lda files I can play with? :)

Researched Rog-o-matic and I think its probably a step too far with this small project. It will take time to go through all the other games we have, and all the DND clones, and Trek clones, etc

Still confused about Zork 1. Each time I find a game called Zork I it loads up Colossal Cave Adventure - I dont get it.

I managed to get a few things running on the PDS-1 sim, like Tank and Pinball, but nothing I did seemed to work to get them to play.

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

Ok, so these are the games I have starred as most needed:
Anyone any clues as to where I can get these:

- 1966 - TX2
- The Sword of Damocles (TX-2) ****

DEC PDP-8 (games 1968)
- Hamurabi (The Sumarian Game, aka The Sumar Game) (1968) - Doug Dyment (got SOL-20) ****

SDS Sigma 7
- Star Trek (1971) ****

HP 2100
- 1971 - The Oragon Trail (ported to PLATO in 1975, Apple II 1978) ****

DEC PDP-10
- Hunt the Wumpus (1972) (Got PDP-8 port) ****
- Walter Bright - Empire for the PDP-10 or 11. (DONE - Plato version)

Imlac PDS-1
- Mazewar 1973 - Dave Leibling ****
-- first written for the Imlac PDS-1 at NASA Ames Research Center. (v1) 1973 ****
-- MIT networked the PDS-1s and use a PDP-10 as the server. (v1.5?)

Wanderer - 1974 - Peter Langston. **** (ANY SYSTEM!)

Infocom - Founded 1979
Zork I: The Great Underground Empire (a.k.a Dungeon) 1977 (PDP-10 ITS version, or TOPS-20) ****
--- Jan 1978 - Ported to PDP-11 (Fortran IV source)****
Zork II: The Wizard of Frobozz (1981)

[Paul Rubin]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
> DEC PDP-8 (games 1968)
> - Hamurabi (The Sumarian Game, aka The Sumar Game) (1968) - Doug
> Dyment (got SOL-20) ****

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamurabi_(video_game)

I didn't know the origin of this game til now, but it was ported to many
systems. The winning strategy was to starve the peasants in poor crop
years and feed them in good years. Or maybe it was the other way
around.

You can play it here: https://archive.org/details/msdos_Hamurabi_1996

[Rich Alderson]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:

> I have recorded as much footage as possible from
> https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/ and I contacted the author (Norbert), and
> he is busy working on a Tennis For Two simulator for us.

We have implemneted Tennis for Two from the original schematics, using an
original oscilloscope, at Living Computers: Museum + Labs. It is in our 1st
floor Exhibit Hall.

2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

--
Rich Alderson ne...@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen

[Rich Alderson]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:

> Still confused about Zork 1. Each time I find a game called Zork I it loads
> up Colossal Cave Adventure - I dont get it.

someone has screwed things up badly, wherever you're trying to run Zork.

Go to http://livingcomputers.org/ and under the Computers menu choose Request a
Login. Remind me who you are. I'll bump you to the top of a very backlogged
queue and give you explicit instructions for running the real, honest-to-$DEITY
Muddle based ZORK. Do it tomorrow.

[Rich Alderson]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:

> Infocom - Founded 1979
> Zork I: The Great Underground Empire (a.k.a Dungeon) 1977 (PDP-10 ITS version, or TOPS-20) ****

OK, it's more complex than that.

ZORK was written in MDL (AKA Muddle) by Lebling et al. at the dynamic Modeling
Lab at MIT. They went on to found Infocom, and port and expanded version of
the game. (Zork I was *part* of the original ZORK, Zork II and III were mostly
new material with a few bits of the original, and some parts were never in the
Infocom games.)

DUNGEON was what Bob Supnik (of SimH fame!) called his FORTRAN translation of
the original ZORK for the PDP-11 and VAX-11.

Don't get them confused. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Rich Alderson wrote:
> We have implemneted Tennis for Two from the original schematics, using
> an original oscilloscope, at Living Computers: Museum + Labs. It is
> in our 1st floor Exhibit Hall.

I tried it. 10/10 would play again.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

> Still confused about Zork 1. Each time I find a game called Zork I it
> loads up Colossal Cave Adventure - I dont get it.

Some notes:

- The first Zork was written for a PDP-10 computer using a now-obscure
programming language called MDL (or Muddle).

- Bob Supnik famously ported MDL Zork to a PDP-11 using Fortran. These
two versions are probably very close.
Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWo_-fvIzXU

- "Zork I" is really the name of the first part of a series for
microcomputers. It was made by Incomcom after the people having made
the first Zork left to form a company. Zork was too large for the
microcomputers of the day, so was divided into three parts. I believe
there are some changes from the mainframe version.

- Zork begins like this:

West of House
This is an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
A rubber mat saying 'Welcome to Zork!' lies by the door.

- Adventure like this:

YOU ARE STANDING AT THE END OF A ROAD BEFORE A SMALL BRICK
BUILDING . AROUND YOU IS A FOREST. A SMALL
STREAM FLOWS OUT OF THE BUILDING AND DOWN A GULLY.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

> DEC PDP-10
> - Hunt the Wumpus (1972) (Got PDP-8 port) ****

telnet its.pdp10.se 10003
[text]
^Z
[more text]
:login guest
:wumpus
DIRECTIONS? (Y OR N) N
HERE'S THE FAMOUS WUMPUS HUNTER MAJOR GUEST
DESCENDING INTO THE "CAVES OF DARKNESS", LAIR OF THE
DEADLY MAN-EATING WUMPUS.
DOWN...
DOWN...
DOWN...
YOU ARE IN ROOM 20
I SMELL A WUMPUS.
TUNNELS TO 11 10 17
MOVE? 11
YOU ARE IN ROOM 11
I SMELL A WUMPUS.
TUNNELS TO 13 20 19
MOVE? 13
YOU ARE IN ROOM 13
I SMELL A WUMPUS.
I FEEL A DRAFT.
TUNNELS TO 18 11 16
MOVE? 18
YOU ARE IN ROOM 18
(YOU FELL INTO A PIT. YOU LOSE!)

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

Some very great info rolling in. Very happy. :)

I registered for an account at Living Computers Museum today. Hopefully it will be easy to explore those systems and play some games.

Thanks for your help with Zork. I was looking for the 'Welcome Matt' in these games but so far have yet to find it. I DONT want to include any DOS games in the clips, as DOS came later and I want to stick with old mainframes if possible. As a last resort, I will grab the Apple II version.

I didnt know the whole story behind the Zork release, thanks, now my notes look like this:

Infocom - Founded 1979
Dave Lebling:
- Zork 1977
--- Created using MDL (Muddle) at the Dynamic Modeling Lab at MIT 1977 - (PDP-10 ITS version) ****
--- Jan 1978 renamed DUNGEON - Ported to PDP-11 and VAX-11 (Fortran IV source) - by Bob Supnik ****
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork#/media/File:4.3_BSD_UWisc_VAX_Emulation_Zork_Intro.png)

- Zork I: The Great Underground Empire (cut down version of Zork)
--- Late 1979 - Made using ZIL language - for TOPS-20 and new PDP-11 version, using Z-machine VM (ZIP)
--- Early 1980 - Scott Cutler created a TRS-80 version of ZIP
--- Feb 1981 - Bruce Daniels' Apple II version

Zork II: The Wizard of Frobozz (1981)

Zork III: The Dungeon Master (1982)

[Scott Lurndal]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
>Ok, so these are the games I have starred as most needed:
>Anyone any clues as to where I can get these:
>
>- 1966 - TX2
>- The Sword of Damocles (TX-2) ****
>
>DEC PDP-8 (games 1968)
>- Hamurabi (The Sumarian Game, aka The Sumar Game) (1968)

I remember playing this in 1974 on a Burroughs B5500. I may still
have some ASR-33 printouts around somewhere.

[lifescho...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 6:47:40 AM UTC+1, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> > DEC PDP-10
> > - Hunt the Wumpus (1972) (Got PDP-8 port) ****
>
> telnet its.pdp10.se 10003
> [text]
> ^Z
> [more text]
> :login guest
> :wumpus

I got this far, but then it said I needed the guest password.
I tried no password, and wumpus, even 10003, but no luck.
This ITS system might be worth investigation, you you have a password for me?

[Lars Brinkhoff]

lifeschool233792 writes:
>> telnet its.pdp10.se 10003
>> [text]
>> ^Z
>> [more text]
>> :login guest
>> :wumpus
>
> I got this far, but then it said I needed the guest password.
> I tried no password, and wumpus, even 10003, but no luck.

There is no password. After typing Control-Z, it should look like this:

WHEN DONE, IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO LOG OUT. To do that, type :LOGOUT
:login guest
TT: GUEST; GUEST MAIL - NON-EXISTENT DIRECTORY

[Daniel Waddington]

I tried a few times today. I entered Guest as the login, and tried no login, and was pressing CTRL+Z at each stage, but nothing happened.

https://imgur.com/Ye9JYhg

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington wrote:
>> >> telnet its.pdp10.se 10003
>> >> [text]
>> >> ^Z
>> >> [more text]
>> >> :login guest
>> >> :wumpus
>> >
>> > I got this far, but then it said I needed the guest password.
>> > I tried no password, and wumpus, even 10003, but no luck.
>>
>> There is no password. After typing Control-Z, it should look like this:
>>
>> WHEN DONE, IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO LOG OUT. To do that, type :LOGOUT
>> :login guest
>> TT: GUEST; GUEST MAIL - NON-EXISTENT DIRECTORY
>> :wumpus
>> DIRECTIONS? (Y OR N)
>
> I tried a few times today. I entered Guest as the login, and tried no
> login, and was pressing CTRL+Z at each stage, but nothing happened.
>
> https://imgur.com/Ye9JYhg

I see the problem. You are trying to connect with SSH instead of
TELNET. It looks like you are using PuTTY. It supports the TELNET
protocol. There should be a set of radio buttons somewhere to switch
from SSH to TELNET.

[Daniel Waddington]

>
> I see the problem. You are trying to connect with SSH instead of
> TELNET. It looks like you are using PuTTY. It supports the TELNET
> protocol. There should be a set of radio buttons somewhere to switch
> from SSH to TELNET.

I tried this at the start of trying it, but it just hung on a screen with OpenBSD or something. I pressed CTRL+Z and nothing happened. When I press Enter after ^Z, the whole console closes down. If I press enter without doing anything, same thing - just shuts down.


BTW, may have another game to add to the list, anyone heard of Lemonade Stand (1973) - its not essential but it might be worth a look.

[Daniel Waddington]

Success. I was trying to access the ITS on port 22 and not port 10003.

Managed to type ':listf games' and found the long list.

Can you tell me if the game output is mean to return to the top left corner of the screen periodically. I have my display set to 80 x 25, and when I tried Advent on the SimH PDP simulator, the screen kept on scrolling up as I played the game, and didnt return to the top left corner when at the bottom.

What is the normal behaviour of the PDP terminal? If it is supposed to do that, then I guess its fine, but this overwrite existing screen data, and looks a bit odd.

PS, I like the Zork joke on the system. I guess that serves me right for trying it. ;)

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington wrote:
> Can you tell me if the game output is mean to return to the top left
> corner of the screen periodically.

Ah, that's the default behaviour. If you type :TCTYP SCROLL, it will
do the usual scrolling thing instead of wrap around.

> PS, I like the Zork joke on the system. I guess that serves me right
> for trying it. ;)

It's the actual program that was present when the MIT DM machine went
away. It's what we have for now until we can make the real Zork run
again.

[Daniel Waddington]

Thats great thanks!

Today I managed to log in to its.pdp10.se, tty.sdf.org and faeroes.sdf.org, and recorded Wumpus and Adventure, and quite a few others.

Im still looking for Wanderer and Zork, and Empire, so if anyone can help with those, so much the better. :)

[Rich Alderson]

lifescho...@gmail.com writes:

> I registered for an account at Living Computers Museum today. Hopefully it =

> will be easy to explore those systems and play some games.

I got tied up traveling back to Seattle from VCF East in New Jersey, with a day
off to recover, and just set up Dan's accounts. Just so folks know that there
can be delays even when promises are made. :-(

[Paul Rubin]

Daniel Waddington <lifescho...@gmail.com> writes:
> Im still looking for Wanderer and Zork, and Empire, so if anyone can
> help with those, so much the better. :)

No idea about those, but here's a good article about Spacewar:

https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/?version=spacewar2x

The link is from here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7844028

Lots of other good links in there too.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington wrote:
> Im still looking for Wanderer and Zork, and Empire, so if anyone can
> help with those, so much the better. :)

The original Zork and Supnik's Dungeon should be similar (identical?)
enough. I believe the former may be found on some TOPS-20 machines such
as one at LCM.

Dungeon is written in Fortran and has also been ported to C, so it runs
almost everywhere. I don't have it, though. I know some people have
it running on Multics; maybe that's cause enough to run it from there.

[Eric Swenson]

Indeed we do have the FORTRAN version of Dungeon, which is functionally identical to the original MDL version of Zork running on Multics. If what you are looking for is to play Zork to take screen shots, I could give you an account on my Internet hosted Multics system, or you could also apply for an account on http://ban.ai. Both of these Multics systems have Zork (called “dungeon”) available. — Eric

[Daniel Waddington]

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 12:52:22 AM UTC+1, Rich Alderson wrote:

> lifescho...@gmail.com writes:
>
> > just set up Dan's accounts. Just so folks know that there
> can be delays even when promises are made. :-(

Hi Rich

I seem to have looked in OK on the TOP10 and also the TOPS20 system.

dec...@tty.LivingComputers.org
It said could not log in under the name dec-10, and it said I should go to:
kl2...@tty.LivingComputers.org
I pressed CTRL+Z and DIR and is said No files in directory.

kl2...@tty.LivingComputers.org - I logged in Ok, and typed DIR, again no files.

Went to: toa...@TTY.LivingComputers.org - Logged in Ok but coulnt get the system to do anything. I types SYS and it came up with a few stats, but I typed DIRECTORY and it said bad command or file name.

To be honest, I havent a clue how to operate these systems. It would be like handing me a bucket of Ferrari spares and a manual and saying "not go build a Ferrari".

I really need expert Quickstart instructions, as trying to read through manual after manual has completelt done my head in for today.

Something like:

Login:
Password:
.Direct sys:
.dir *mac
.list games
r Zork

I wouldnt ask this unless I was on my knees trying to understand how this works.

---

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 2:46:37 PM UTC+1, Eric Swenson wrote:
> Indeed we do have the FORTRAN version of Dungeon, which is functionally identical to the original MDL version of Zork running on Multics. If what you are looking for is to play Zork to take screen shots, I could give you an account on my Internet hosted Multics system, or you could also apply for an account on http://ban.ai. Both of these Multics systems have Zork (called “dungeon”) available. — Eric

Thanks :) - I'll try Ban.ai first and let you know how far I get with it.

[Rich Alderson]

Daniel Waddington <lifescho...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 12:52:22 AM UTC+1, Rich Alderson wrote:
>> lifescho...@gmail.com writes:

>>> just set up Dan's accounts. Just so folks know that there can be delays
>>> even when promises are made. :-(

> Hi Rich

> I seem to have looked in OK on the TOP10 and also the TOPS20 system.

> dec...@tty.LivingComputers.org
> It said could not log in under the name dec-10, and it said I should go to:
> kl2...@tty.LivingComputers.org
> I pressed CTRL+Z and DIR and is said No files in directory.

> kl2...@tty.LivingComputers.org - I logged in Ok, and typed DIR, again no files.

Once you are logged in, you are in a directory tied to your project-programmer
number (PPN). If you have not created any files, it will of course be empty.
Empty directories are deleted by logging out; those with content stay around.
This is a very 1960s space saving maneuver.

> Went to: toa...@TTY.LivingComputers.org - Logged in Ok but coulnt get the
> system to do anything. I types SYS and it came up with a few stats, but I
> typed DIRECTORY and it said bad command or file name.

OK, you typed something else besides DIRECTORY on the command line, or your
would have gotten an empty directory message. To see what's in the system
executables path, type DIR SYS: (DIRECTORY can be abbreviated). A verbose
directory is achieved by VDIRECTORY (abbreviated V).

To look at the path itself, type INFORMATION LOGICAL SYS: (or I L SYS:), which
will tell you what directories are searched for programs invoked by name. You
may then do directory listings of each subpart; V SYS: will of course only show
you the first entry. To find ZORK, type V SYS:ZORK.*

Two things to remember about TOPS-20: It is very friendly, and will tell you
what it expects from you for any command you type. At any point, typing the
question mark ("?") will let you know what the system expects; at most points,
typing an ESCAPE character (ASCII 27) will do command completion. For example,
if you type V<ESC>, the system will echo "VDIRECTORY (VERBOSE, OF FILES) " and
wait for you to type in a file spec, possibly with wildcard characters.

> To be honest, I havent a clue how to operate these systems. It would be like
> handing me a bucket of Ferrari spares and a manual and saying "not go build a
> Ferrari".


> I really need expert Quickstart instructions, as trying to read through
> manual after manual has completelt done my head in for today.


> Something like:
>
> Login:
> Password:
> .Direct sys:
> .dir *mac
> .list games
> r Zork

File specifications in TOPS-20 are of the form
struct:<dirname>filename.extension.generation
with defaults: The connected structure (= file system), the connected
directory, and all generations of a file.

If you type "dir *mac", the system will look for all files in the current
directory whose filename ends in the characters "MAC", with any possible
extension and generation. This is not the same as looking for files of
Macro-10 code, which you would file with "dir *.mac". Notice the DOT.

"LIST" is not a recognized command.

If you type "V SYS:ZORK", you will see that the game resides in the directory
LS:<UNSUPPORTED>, along with a log file. In the path returned by "I L SYS:",
that is what is referred to by the logical name UNS: (which you can think of as
a logical structure+directory designation). You can also type "V UNS:ZORK" to
see the same thing.

> I wouldnt ask this unless I was on my knees trying to understand how this works.

> ---
> On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 2:46:37 PM UTC+1, Eric Swenson wrote:

>> Indeed we do have the FORTRAN version of Dungeon, which is functionally
>> identical to the original MDL version of Zork running on Multics. If what
>> you are looking for is to play Zork to take screen shots, I could give you
>> an account on my Internet hosted Multics system, or you could also apply for
>> an account on http://ban.ai. Both of these Multics systems have Zork (called

>> "dungeon") available. =E2=80=94 Eric

>
> Thanks :) - I'll try Ban.ai first and let you know how far I get with it.

[Daniel Waddington]

I cant state again highly enough how much you guys have helped me on this. With it being the weekend, I think its time to catch up on things.

First of all, someone said they might be able to build me an ITS system from the files linked in post #2 of this thread. Glad to say I now have all those games thanks to the SSH structures I managed to Putty in to this week. They are very similar, only Wanderer came up with an error "Unable to Load Screen 1", or something. This is a shame, as this was at one time a 'lost game' from 1974, so I'd be interested to see it running. The source is on Github, although again, no idea how to use it. However, its not important really to what is likely to be a 1 hour short film about old computers (and wont appear) - but its just that I like to be complete in my research, and want to see it running. :)

Most important is tracking down Mazewar. I got the ALTO version and the PLATO (1-player) version, but nothing on the PDP as yet. And of course Zork/Dungeon/Zork 1 are pretty much essential, as they are world famous games.

Will check these new leads at Living Computers Museum over the weekend, and report back on my progress. :)

--
Rich - Thank you so much for the tips. Tops-10, So if I log back in, the directory will have been cleared, and I will be in the system? How is it possible to 'CD Root', like 'Change DIR SYS:', or go back one level, like 'CD..'?

Im guessing what you mean by Logical Structure is perhaps an 'Assign'?, e.g a pointer to a directory which is known as a drive? In Amiga terms it might be Assign monster: dh0:games/monster

I think it would be a superb idea to make a kindergarten version of the intrusions you sent to me, and post them on the web site as a tutorial. Like if I was a parent teaching my Son about old computers, I could follow a step by step guide to understanding the system, explained in terms a DOS student would understand. Im very much from a C64 and Amiga background, so I know as much about TOPS-10 as I know about plating fog - although TOPS is easier.

No idea about GE 600 series or Multics just yet, or VAX, but lets just take it one step at a time and I'll hopefully check everything out. :)

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington wrote:
> Most important is tracking down Mazewar. I got the ALTO version and
> the PLATO (1-player) version, but nothing on the PDP as yet.

I have the PDP-10 + Imlac version of MAZE (as they insist it was named),
but getting it fully up and running on the emulators is still a work in
progress.

[Daniel Waddington]

Yes, it might also be difficult getting tow people to be online to play it, otherwise its not really going to be fun to play or watch.

--
So here is the list again, in case anyone knows about these:

- 1966 - TX2
- The Sword of Damocles (TX-2) ****

DEC PDP-8 (games 1968)

- Hamurabi (The Sumarian Game, aka The Sumar Game) (1968) - Doug Dyment (got SOL-20) ****

SDS Sigma 7
- Star Trek (1971) ****

HP 2100
- 1971 - The Oragon Trail (ported to PLATO in 1975, Apple II 1978) ****

DEC PDP-10
- Walter Bright - Empire for the PDP-10 or 11. (Got Plato version)

Imlac PDS-1
- Mazewar 1973 - Dave Leibling ****
-- first written for the Imlac PDS-1 at NASA Ames Research Center. (v1) 1973 ****
-- MIT networked the PDS-1s and use a PDP-10 as the server. (v1.5?)

Wanderer - 1974 - Peter Langston. **** (ANY SYSTEM!)

Again, there was a port of Wanderer on SDF but I couldnt get it to load.

---

Rich - Thank you again for the guide to get me started. I explored the PDP10 links but didnt see any games. Then tried the TOAD Tops20 link, and found Zork, Advent and Hunt the Wumpus on there. So finally we not have Zork on the PDP10! I think that deserves a cheer, yaayy.

I was struggling to use the Tops20 system until I typed TOPS20 and it came up with a tutorial of how to use it. Then I could press CTRL+Q to move pages along when the screen got stuck. This was helpful for the help files in Zork. :)

[Daniel Waddington]

Here is a link to the source for Hamurabi:

https://drstevenson.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/hamurabi-basic-code/

Anyone got this on any PDP? Plus, how do I load BASIC to load it?

[Lars Brinkhoff]

> Here is a link to the source for Hamurabi:
> https://drstevenson.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/hamurabi-basic-code/

The link to the code seems to be broken. Here's the latest copy saved
at archive.org:

http://web.archive.org/web/20150120012304/http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/basicgames/HMRABI

Kind of a forerunner to Sim City?

[Daniel Waddington]

Thanks for the new link. I checked the code and it seems to be the same version. On my link, you have to click on 'Expand Source' to read it. :)

Yes, this 1968 game pre-dates Lemonade Stand as the worlds first Trading game, but for me it is on the lineage of the God sim. If you think about it, Chess is a game where two players lean overhead and play God with the pieces. I guess you can see most tabletop board games are the same. And yes, it lead to Sim City, Populous, and Minecraft. Side note, 1950 - TurboChamp is the earliest game we have in this line, but it doesnt exist (I dont think) in real life anymore. We have screenshots of games up until OXO on the EDSAC (1952), and then we have OXO on the TX-0 (1959).

The next one was supposed to be Sword of Damocles on the TX-2, which I MISTAKENLY took as one of those game. Having finished my full investigation, I can laugh at my mistake. Check out: "VR@50_ Celebrating Ivan Sutherland's 1968 Head-Mounted 3D Display System" on youtube. Please note, we DONT need to find this 'game' anymore. ha-ha. ;)

So the next God sim doesnt appear until 1968 with this one. Its more than just Chess (Chess has been ported to every system I've seen so far), it took it a bit further, where the element of trading and random floods and droughts made it pretty absorbing.

If you think about it, the Sim Life aspect merges with Conways Life program (which is also on many systems), and this is also a random life sim.

[Daniel Waddington]

That reminds me, I guess I could do with Life for the PDP. I tried the Telnet and SSH places you guys gave me, but on SDF it said the game could not be run in Read Mode - whatever that means.

I spotted Mlife on its.pdp10.se, but no idea how to run it. Is this a BASIC game?
Can you tell me how to run all these games:
https://i.imgur.com/Vex4oRK.png

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Daniel Waddington wrote:
> I spotted Mlife on its.pdp10.se, but no idea how to run it. Is this a
> BASIC game?

It's Michael Speciner's implementation of Conway's Game of Life cellular
automaton. It's written in MIDAS assembly language, not BASCIC.
Unfortunately, it requires a DEC 340 CRT display, or a simulation
thereof. Connecting through SSH or TELNET doesn't provide that; you
have to run the PDP-10 emulator yourself.

> Can you tell me how to run all these games:
> https://i.imgur.com/Vex4oRK.png

Sorry, I can't. If the games doesn't give you instructions, there is no
documentation. I can tell you what some are:

ANIMAL - Guess animal from clues.
BKG - Backgammon.
C, CHESS, CHESS2, OCM - Chess.
CKR - Checkers.
GAME - A menu for playing games.
MAZE - Maze war. Requires an Imlac with SSV pre loaded.
NIMLIN - Subtraction game.
O - Othello.
SPCWAR - Spacewar (needs 340).

To run Greenblatt's chess program in all its glory, again the 340 is
required.

[Daniel Waddington]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:31:37 PM UTC+1, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> you
> have to run the PDP-10 emulator yourself.

Ah right, which leads me back to finding somehow to play these on SIMH.
I have 4 tapes labelled .TAP, which are games for the PDP-10, but I cant work out how to mount them and run them in SIMH.

[Rich Alderson]

SimH is (a family of) simulator(s). Some of the systems emulated require that
you install an operating system before you can do anything else with them
(unless you are intimately familiar with the system under emulation).

What operating system(s) are the games on your tape images written for? What
*hardware* are they writting for? (Presumably PDP-10, given where you're
posting, but that's not a given.)

[Daniel Waddington]

Im almost done with my task of recording all video games. Its been a long journey. At the moment I'm looking for Lemonade Stand and Empire on the PDP-10.

I have SIMH: all set up with Tops-10, as mentioned in my first post, and this came with an Advent .tap. This is largely not necessary anymore, as I managed to find all the games I needed (Lunar, Star Trek etc) available on other machines.

Yesterday I decided the best source for Hamurabi was in fact the (FORTRAN -> BASIC) souces listed in the middle of this thread. So I went back to those pages and typed out the entire thing on an Exidy Sorcerer. Its been a long time since I typed out any BASIC, and I didnt enjoy the memories. The code worked after the third debug of my code, and this V1.1 of the game is much closer to the original than the later 8-bit computer and even BASIC ports.

[Questor]

On Sat, 18 May 2019 08:27:03 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Waddington
<lifescho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Im almost done with my task of recording all video games. Its been a long
>journey. At the moment I'm looking for Lemonade Stand and Empire on the PDP-10.

Empire isn't too hard to find:

Walter Bright's Classic Empire
http://www.classicempire.com/

I've been playing the MS-DOS version 1.1 for over twenty years, and as far as I
remember it looks and feels like the TOPS-10 version from back in the day,
albeit it runs much faster (grin). The only difference I can discern is that
the old TOPS-10 program had a fixed set of world maps, while the MS-DOS version
generates a different map at the start of each game. That might have been
changed at some point in the TOPS-10 version before being ported to MS-DOS;
as you might expect, "serious" TOPS-10 sites wouldn't be too keen on updating to
the latest version and encouraging their users to play games. In any event, it
won't make any difference to recording the look and feel of playing a single
game.

I think later MS-DOS versions added color; the TOPS-10 version most certainly
did not have that feature.